Violence begets violence.

This is more a random, senseless act that has no place in a civilised society rather than a political statement against a representative of the establishment.

My heart and thoughts go out to MP Seng Han Thong.

No-one deserves to be hurt in such a terrible manner.

That man who attacked the MP has been mentally unstable as reported. In fact, the grassroot leader and the MP himself seem to know this. for some time. Yet why nobody tried to get help for him or refer him to IMH or get social assistance for this poor man. Everybody turn a blind eye to the poor. sick and helpless. Now that the MP was attacked, i guess if he do his job in his own ward according to his world class salary, this will not happen at all….. i guess there is a GOD afterall………..

A 70 year old mentally unstable man do not qualify for social assistance, surely he should qualify for some medical treatment or social care…..

Besides writing, what are the “many (other) things you can do?”.

Being a ‘mental case’, as you have agreed with the MSM suggestion, would it make his writings credible? Or perhaps he did but was ridiculed for being a mental case?

There is a serious need for the govt not to deride and suppress all the rantings from every quarter of our society. This will only have one result, that of a cornered animal, which is the case here.

I do not buy the mental case explanation. It is used to evade the issue of a suppressed citizen at large.

I do not condone the act but neither should we not see beyond it to uncover the underlying reasons for such an act.

I’m concerned about the many people out there who are stressed to the point of being mentally unstable at some points.

Just look at the number of rude and dangerous drivers on the road, the violence exhibited in road rage, violence against bus drivers, violence due to supposedly staring incidents and not to mention violence against spouses and children.

During this worst recession in 40 years, we will see more such cases. Not just our leaders, but also civil servants doing their jobs will be exposed to this danger.

Is Singapore becoming too crowded and thus too stressful?

My sympathy is with MP Seng Han Thong and his family. Be strong. We are with you.

Aiyoo

So much fuss. The perpetrator was said to be coming in and out of IMH. Obviously he is not of sound mind. I think the MP was just unlucky to be in his path. That’s all there is. I doubt the motive was political.

which is better?

for a man to commit suicide (forced by circumstances – aren’t we creatures of circumstances and our fate often decided by the throw of a dice?) or for him to hurt the one who hurt him(i must add, not a religious thing to do or one must be of unsound mind)?

since some people are more equal than others and therefore, better protected by laws, the obvious choice should then be ….. for the troubled man, with no one to turn to for help, commit suicide you think?

“No, if you’re fed up about the current state of affairs in Singapore, for whatever reason, there are many things you can do. Write for TOC, or to Singapore’s many political blogs, or to your Member of Parliament, or to the press. Turn up at a protest or two at Hong Lim park. And so on. ”

sorry, that’s quite a naive statement – as the recent case attested and the cause of many political violence around us. seriously, if turning to the powers and all these avenues provided help, there will be peace on earth by now.

“The Government has already made limited concessions to freedom of speech online. If we want the political freedom of adults, don’t give the Government excuses to give us the privileges of children. ”

that sounds like a “threat”. are they concern for us or concern of the lost of their “freedom”?

Honestly speaking, if u are someone who is mentally unsound, wouldn’t it be better if u just grab a inife or a chopper and start slashing SHT aimless.y, probably in a fit of madness or anger? Obviously this guy has so much hatred or grievances in him that he has everything planned out. noted he uses thinner rather than kerosene to inflict more harm on SHT.

Has the straits times or watever media conduct any interview on the man personally and ask him why he needs to do something that is so extreme to his MP. Do u think anyone even if he is mentally unsound would just shui bian shui bian buy some thinner and burn someone into a torch.

now, we only hear one side of a story and that is he is mentally unsound, a loner, and he was refused the 200 dollars big hongbao.

[i]wondering on January 12th, 2009 10.40 am “No, if you’re fed up about the current state of affairs in Singapore, for whatever reason, there are many things you can do. Write for TOC,
[/i]
is this a joke?
check recently
how many of my contributions got lost suddenly
today
i sent in 3
only 1 intact still under moderation so to speak

i fully agree with #10…for a balanced view…let’s hear from the other party..be it himself or people who know him…it’s not so straight forward…

@ #2: Now someone hits the main point. Hahahahahaha…

Just let things develop. There are tons of such cases for decades and many are stucked in Singapore with more and more and more of them.

Violence talks on MPs have been in the marketplace for quite some time. Talks about robbery plans have been also heard in recent years. But it is surprising that Seng has been hit twice.

People get radical, and in Singapore… even without MPS, people can hunt the MPs plus the rich down. So all must be careful.

Koh Jie Kai is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome . He calls it ‘political violence’, then says the attacker is of unsound mind. He pleads tolerance and says govt has ‘made concessions’ to online speech. Try telling that to the 70 year old senior citizens who works a lifetime and yet cannot retire. Try telling that to the number of ex political detainees who have been tortured under the ISA. Try telling that to activists sentenced to jail for exercising basic civil rights in peaceful protests. Yes, we should never respond with violence but please stop deluding yourself that rights are given by the govt, and that we should be thankful for their concessions. What goes around do come around. Let’s see if Mr Seng is man enough to forgive his attacker and waive prosecution.

I think alot of ppl have already heard this news long before this web page started having comments.

Was having coffee talk with some of my friends pertainng to this issue. If social help did their part, I think this mental unstable person would be well taken care of in Mental hospital. How can he take care of himself?

We only question after such incident happens???? Are we really taking care of the needy???

Funny..why another EX-TAXI driver??

#13) ben tay – good point, fully agreed.

The lesson from history is that:

If the authority ignore or oppress moderate and rational efforts to reform the system, they create a climate to breed violence / extreme groups.

It is true that “a culture of tolerance for violence as an answer to political problems does nothing to help Singapore develop as a liberal democracy”, but we will be heading down that path if PAP does not change its stance and the social economic environment continue to deteriorate.

I disagree with this statement:

“…….There are apparently quite a lot of people out there in Singapore who apparently believe that there is some sort of “karmatic” law of nature out there which justifies serious injury (or death) upon politicians responsible (partly or fully) for unpopular government policy. ……..”

I read many of the comments and I do not think people feel that the attack is justified. They just felt that this is a “wake-up” call for the government to re-examine it’s many policy. And I do’nt think this is wrong. There are many lesson to be learned from this attack.

Did anyone think y this 70yr old guy only aim at SHT. This type of event sure many ppl ard. Y this guy nv put fire on other guys or the temple committees or that particular ppl who rejected him for receiving angbao. I think Mr SHT did not rejected him directly rite.
Somethings must be behind this incident that MSM did not report. Every simple excuse to close the incident by saying this guy is MAD.

Should we just give out Just Vouchers???

S$200 might be 2 little to buy a human life. A normal person will never do such action…he must be very upset of not having to qualify for the money.

This old man with Mental problem & should be taken care of my our “Governement”. Throwing him in prison will not solve the real problem. Caning & fine is also out of the question.

So what must the judge really DO??

We must really see how it unfold today.

Remember?

When Yeo Ning Hong was Transport Minister decades back, there were swears and curses at him.

YES, unhappiness has been simmering for a long………..long time.

BUT, has the Leadership ever care?…………….

patriot

Don’t worry. Singapore is still a place for law and order. The day we have a sane person attacking the MP will be the day we have to start thinking seriously.

I believe Singapore society it at its boiling point. It can only get worse with the current recession. We have ‘Burning SHT’ in January. What will we have in February? March? April ?………….Wait and see . . . . . .

ben tay #13 –

you are mistaken. the author’s point is that this act is being interpreted as being political, and people are implying in their comments that it is justifiable for political reasons, regardless of the personal motives (or state of mind) of the assailant.

he did not ‘plead tolerance’ instead quite the contrary – he says that tolerating violent acts is impermissible. this is simple human decency. and his statement about the government’s ‘concessions’ to online speech is merely realpolitik. just because it is expedient for now to be careful about what one says doesn’t mean that one is any less sincere in one’s opposition to the present government’s political tactics.

furthermore, when you say that ‘we should never respond with violence’ yet later solemnly say ‘what goes around comes around’, you are merely displacing the responsibility for the violence onto someone else, but still deriving satisfaction from its having been carried out.

Quote “If I have to shoot 200,000 students to save China from another 100 years of disorder……..” Unquote.

Does that sounds familiar? In the words of a GREAT LEADER, how would that apply here? Will it take this case for the MPs to understand the plight of many Singaporeans?

They ONLY do things after incident happen…

Are we really helping the needy?? I’ve seen lonely, old ppl eating leftover from hawker centre. Why didnt those MP with so many HELPERS notice such ppl?

Are they trying to promote that they are doing something during festive season?? or this downturn?? Sweeping under the carpet & ony do spring cleaning once a year??

Do it for the rest of the year….& if they really do……Alot of youngster will support U in the next election. Do the right thing plssss.

mentally unsound ? mmmmmm….. does it mean he will not be punished the way like any sound people would be punished. Let’s see…..

Assuming that he was sound during the offending act, what drove him. Call it “karmatic” law of nature, cause and effect, or whatever you want to call it.

Politically corrrect as much as we may want to sound to show some sense of decency, sad that such acts will still happen once the trigger point of the any potential “offender” is reached. And it has happened.

Whether it is right or wrong. Go near a tiger and the tiger will bite you. Nothing ‘karmatic’ about this. In human context, the tiger may go to you if the tiger feels that you have intruded into his ’space’ (e.g sense of justice, fairness, etc.).

18) GoodSingaporean on January 12th, 2009 11.27 am
Did anyone think y this 70yr old guy only aim at SHT. This type of event sure many ppl ard. Y this guy nv put fire on other guys or the temple committees or that particular ppl who rejected him for receiving angbao. I think Mr SHT did not rejected him directly rite.
Somethings must be behind this incident that MSM did not report. Every simple excuse to close the incident by saying this guy is MAD.

It is obvoius MSM did not report the whole truth behind. Say if this MP is from an opposition, then the whole things will be out, maybe with some more wayang to add to the damage.

Why the need for the Ang Pow Ceremony?

Was it Mr Seng’s personal money or CDAC or govt / taxpayers money?

If it is taxpayer’s money, why the need to be given out by the MPs – it is not theirs.

What are the criteria for such ang pows.

Is it better to have a long term social service system where old people can apply and get credited with the amounts without such ostentatious ceremony which kind of put credit on the MPs.

These are some question I have. Should we have a better social welfare system that takes care of our 60 years old, instead of being maids in hotels ( a failure of PAP / LKY – you will not be maids in other country, but chambermaids in local hotels in Singapore and the govt will sing your praises – see feedmetothefish)

in times of trouble and town council fiasco, does your estate still have big bill boards of PAP MPs looking down, smiling chillingly at you , wishing you a happy New year?

Why this wastage with bill boards. Do people in PAP listen – do they ever listen??

They are just giving out money from someone pocket…temple etc

MONEY are not from their own pocket. We don’t NEED MP only know how to do “PR”

NO one should be burn like SHT…but as i said b4..are they doing spring cleaning?? when the incident happen??

NO need to promote…. we needREAL action to help fellow singaporean.

EVERYTHING is up……..

suddenly… eveybody seems to understand the Palestinian situation now… when room for justice/survival is not available people resort to violence…

I disagree with the author that violence should be ruled out absolutely. Violence should only be used as means for the last resort. It all hangs on the power balance among political actors. However, I don’t think the political situation in Singapore has degenerated to the level that violence is justified.

Oh Brandon, please cite one instance in my comment that i derive satisfaction from Mr Seng’s suffering. I do not. Jie Kai’s header is misleading. He calls on Singaporeans to exercise tolerance and patience towards govt ‘concessions’. I call that Stockholm Syndrome. He calls on Singaporeans to resist ‘political violence’ when no political violence has been committed against the PAP. I then make the point that violence have been commited against political activists in the jail cells of the ISD. I’m saying that what happened to Mr Seng is a culmination of govt policies gone wrong. The only way to heal is for the Govt to stop bullying the citizens. Mr Seng can start the ball rolling by forgiving his attacker.

If he was an ex-taxi driver, it must be assumed that he was sane at one point. Was it due to lack of money that caused his “insanity”? If he was insane, it would mean that somehow he has fallen into the cracks of society. He appears to be no one’s responsibility. Who is providing for him financially? The $200/- must have meant a lot to him to cause him to do something like that.

It is very well for those of you who are still working or surviving on your savings to condemn his actions. But the govt should look deeply into his case and find out the root cause. If he was financially provided for, it is unlikely for him to resort to such desperate measures.

I disagree with the unrestrained violence and even though he may have done wrong to the public or the attacker,this kind of violence is uncalled for.
I find a point that Koh Jie Kai written “The Government has already made limited concessions to freedom of speech online. If we want the political freedom of adults, don’t give the Government excuses to give us the privileges of children. ” a bit unacceptable for me..I am the one who empowers my Government..the Government is but the servant of the people. I guess years of political monopoly in Singapore has really skewed even the mindsets of educated people like the author..if we do nothing about this,there will not really be a political future for Singapore.

This IS NOT a political violence!!!! It has got nothing to do with politics.

Honest mistake, no problem, let’s move on( to the next victim).

Ya this incident though committed by a mentally unsound old man does highlighted the great chasms of our people.

I read with much distaste and sadness that Pm LSL has called on us to work beyond our retirement years. Having work for 63 years and now I need to work beyond my golden years? Is there an end to how much we can earn for our keep?

By advocating a self reliant attitude, PM LSL has envorced my belief that staying abroad is the best thing that I have done for my life.

In Australia, one can retire comfortably with a state pension ($230 a week) and my superannuation funds of 9% fully contributed by the companies only.

Taxes are super high at minimum 19% and up to 48% for thsoe earning A%200,000 a year. Frankly, these remain the curses of many high fliers. One wonders if it is good to earn so much and may have force some to pass over promotions so that they can earn decent wages and yet go home with lesser responsibilities.

Some have abuse the unemployment benefits for sure. As many as close to 200 000 people at any given one time has seek unemployment benefit and the figure could rise now with the recession. Single parents are entitled to benefit payable by per child basis and this have fuel more women giving birth indiscriminately. The benefit ceases when the child turns adulthood.

Medical care is almost free though the govt is trying to pass on the health premiums to the consumers. It may become a co sharing entity not unlike ours.

Aussies also have mimimum wage protection of up to $530 a week. That is if you work as a cleaner in a foodcourt, your pay is no less than $530 a week or the employer can be sued. That is something that aattract them to work FT as the dole is only half of the minimum wage payable when one works FT. The dole only works if the minimum wage is enforced so that people will lay off welfare.

Frankly, i am open to paying high taxes if my retirement is taken care of, my children education is almost free up to varsities (uni students pay only 30% of the tuition fees and can be paid back in long term loans) and my healthcare is well taken care of.

Though we pay little or no taxes, we are make to pay high GST (7%), high cost of living due to our lifestyle or standard of living, means testing in healthcare and very high housing cost that puts whatecver we save up in our CPF back to the govt coffers in interest repayment. It is no wonder that the CPF may not be the best way to save up for our retirement. Too much of the CPF is being sucked out by mortgage repayment making it an unreliable form of retirement saving.

Many of us retire in poverty and need to clean tables for a living.

#30) Muhammad:
suddenly… eveybody seems to understand the Palestinian situation now… when room for justice/survival is not available people resort to violence…

I do not see the parallel, and to link one to the other speaks volumes on the degree of prejudice of this post. TOC needs to moderate such comments more than some others it had moderated.

We do NOT have real social help.

There are 2 many red tape in-oder to get help.

I can’t undersatnd Y must there be so much promotion of work been done by such PR manager??? WIll he be back in the next election??

Did the temple also biase against such ppl??

There MUST be a REASON.

lets work with the leaders
to form our brand of alternative
working in cooperation.

change clothes from within.

Koh Jie Kai is right — there’s no place for political voilence in S’pore.
But he’s also wrong — what happened is not a case of political voilence.
And he’s also wrong — that writing to TOC, or to the ST, or blogging about it, will assuage those pent up emotions.
Koh has missed one very important point — the taxi driver who assaulted the MP earlier, and now this supposedly “mental” senior citizen who lit the fire, are more a sign of the times. A sign that some, perhaps many, people are already hovering on the edge of “insane”behaviour. How did this “mental” guy become “mental”? He didn’t start out being “mental” did he? Apparently he lost his flat, he must have been struggling to make ends meet, he must have gone through severe depression, and finally, he lost his sense of rational conduct. He did what he did because he could not hold it back no more.

Koh, and all those people up there, should stop looking at just what happened, and look more closely at how it became like this.

The fact that many people did not even think it was terrible of that senior citizen to have done what he did, that they actually sympathised with the “culprit”, while not necessarily wishing any harm on the MP, is a sure sign and symptom of a larger malaise.

You can put the lid on the kettle, but sooner or later, the steam has to escape somewhere, and when it does, the outcome will be dire.

agree.

only a few k people read this blog and even if u add up sammyboy and sgforums, only a small population are social-issue aware to the extent of willing to air their opinions. also, many have duplicate nicks and post in more than 1 blog or forum.

out of 4.5 million, just this few dare to voice their opinions or have any opinion at all.

Lucky TOC people not like that as we can voice our grievences on the net.
But think of those Teochew, Cantonese and Hokkien speaking ppl,
do you think is a good idea to setup Speaker Corner at every estate for them to speak out their frustrations rather than travel all the way to hong lim park.

Asian are never taught to express their feelings in the correct manner but suppressed it and physcologically is very very bad and any normal ppl will be insane.
Learn from the Americans, see how their children articulate better than any Adult Singapore. Haven’t all of us see the Jack Neo Show “Singporean and the Singapore Fish are not different, they just refused to open their mouth to show their teeths” Why because of our world class education systems!!!

aiyoyo

think as long all commoners livelihood easy, not so pressure,

believe the society will be better & everyone happy also…

not sure when this scenario will come true.

aiyoyo

Not again, why there are so many MP, only Seng Han Thong get burn. First he got a punch and now get burn by Citizen. There must be reason for this two events, why Singapore Citizens who are not volience turn into Voilence. Nobody know, only Seng Han Thong needed to ponder for himself and ask himself whether he have serve his people or not. If you say a wild animal attack their master, this is their intinct. But Singaporean, he better think again whether his action or word offended other first to make a 70 years old mentally unstable to do such thing.

PAP MP wake up, this sleeping have been waken up to bite. Don’t push your SIngapore Citizens too far until voilence appear. There is one time there will have the second time.

42) TrueBlood Singapore on January 12th, 2009 1.52 pm

unfortunately, ablity to listen or speak in dialects
is a lost trade for many new generation.
at most, the youths only know a bit of the dialects not enough to comprehend
their message.

singaporeans were ever criticised for not too good in english and not too good in mother thongue.

what i know is many do not know how to express their opinions as well as say people from TW, USA etc. culture or nurture?

complain & do nothing for many…………

GST up…complains…transport up …complains……..ERP up…complains….Utilties up…..complains…………………Rice up…complains…………………….petrol up…complains

NEVER have they really know their rights……scared?? So many MPs for a small dot in the world MAP.

Next gen have o set their priority right this time……..HOPE NO more new tax increase to add to the sufering of the middle class.

What will the MPs get this time??? Pay cut or should I say incentive cuts???

We must see during the next budget time..akandatang.

MPs should be multi task like woking ppl…i for 1 do 2 or 3 person jobs…get 1 pay & may have pay cut soon.

Have 1 yo baby and everything is up…i worry for my kids future.

This is the real life of a sg’aporean…….like is harder every yr.

CEO must really think of the ppl & not for themselve

I am not Chinese educated but I do know there is a saying that goes like this:

” Every Ordinary Person Is Responsible For The Rise And Fall Of His Country”.

DID THE ILL MENTAL HEALTH OF THE 70-YEAR OLD CAUSE HIM TO ATTACK MP?

I would not jump to conclusions that this 70-year old attacked the MP because he is of unsound mind.

Firstly, saying that he has been warded in IMH before is merely hearsay. Nobody has any proof of this.

Secondly, even if it is true he was warded in IMH, it doesn’t mean he is crazy. The health ministry has been emphasizing that going to IMH doesn’t mean you are crazy (I could remember full page ST ads telling us this). It could be a simple case of depression but you still need medical help all the same. For folks who can’t afford private psychiatrists, the polyclinics will send you to IMH for subsidized treatment. The fact that this 70-year old is discharged means his illness is under control.

Thirdly, let’s assume the worst case basis that this 70-year old is crazy and IMH somehow discharged him wrongly. Do you think a really crazy person can plan such an attack? And what MADE HIM attack the MP and not some random passers-by?

To conclude, saying that he attacked the MP because he is crazy while dismissing other factors is too simplistic.

“unfortunately, ablity to listen or speak in dialects is a lost trade for many new generation.”

Never mind lah, Singapore is always into this grand helpful thingy called retraining.

“what i know is many do not know how to express their opinions as well as say people from TW, USA etc. culture or nurture?”

In our country where you only supposed to listen obediently without needing to talk back as the other side needs to work peacefully so that they won’t have to spend too much time playing the ‘fixing’ game, where can you find the good verbal sparring oportunities that you get to see in so many countries. Here, you get to hear only set-pieces that are so boring that you will likely know what they are even before getting a reply.

Firstly, I must state my opinion that this is an unrequired and redundant article.

Why? It has nothing to do with political violence. This is a case of one party venting his anger or another – this happens in everyday lives between teens sparring at void decks, a couple of punches thrown during a road rage or a brutal backstabbing of another.

Social ills occur often, justifiable or not is not up to us, nor the law to decide – for these are some things which could simply be debated to and fro with no conclusion.

So what can we do about it?
Build a more tolerant society – starting from top down or bottom up, leaders need to show the way and people need to be better educated. Its not an overnight affair, but one step forward is better than none.

Hope all the affected parties will recover in due time.

The 70 year old man is neither crazy or insane. It needs a very brave person to attack the MP in broad daylight. It is a well conceived and planned attack of the highest degree, knowing well that he would be caught.

Francis Lee

“So what can we do about it?
Build a more tolerant society – starting from top down or bottom up, leaders need to show the way and people need to be better educated. Its not an overnight affair, but one step forward is better than none.”

After 40+ donkey years since independence, have we not done this. Or we have finally now reached our national maturity to see through that the actual preaching part and the actual practising part are actually two different things.

Does the elderly woman on clutches walking around Raffles Place with cardboard strung over her head fall under the ’social ills’ category of your description, James?

When will the next ’social ill’ event be, James?

December – Old woman with lone cardboard voice protests at Raffles Place.
January – 70yr old man sends SHT burning in Yio Chu Kang.
February – ?
March – ?
April – ?
May – ?
June – ?
July – ?
August – ?
September – ?
October – ?
November – ?
December – ?

Do we want to fill in these blanks?

The Straits Times is trying to impress upon the readers that the assailant is “insane”. We know ST is the govt’s mouth-piece, but is this gross lack of objective reporting necessary before the Police has even begun investigation??

Men in White has been conductin such Ang Pow Ceremony to make S’poreans believe that they are “helping” by giving away money. BUT in reality, the money comes from taxpayers!!

There is a Chinese saying for this sort of hypocrisim……borrow flowers and offering them to the God!

This is ridiculous. Koh made the pt that political violence is not accepted. He was not talking about the old man pouring oil and setting SHT alight. He is aiming at those people who seem to think its justified.

Whether or not he is mental is beside the point; some guy got burnt. Its a senseless attack. I don’t give a rat’s ass if he is LHL or SHT or Teo Ho Pin. Burning someone up is wrong

And supporting such acts is abominable.

#56

V wat happen in Nov 5th???

Many have forgotten..pls highlight.

Complains??? hai… sg’porean. Not my problem as will think..unless its my money.

This is wat i call…..GIVE & TAKE

AGREE with ronin but its not taxpayer money but temple in this case
55) ronin on January 12th, 2009 3.50 pm
Men in White has been conductin such Ang Pow Ceremony to make S’poreans believe that they are “helping” by giving away money. BUT in reality, the money comes from taxpayers!!

HongBao money are not from their pockets for sure.. not a cent of their monthly high salary is use in giving HongBao at chinese new year function

What is the purpose of giving out HongBao only to a selected few at these gathering, I don’t understand, which person is more deserving than the other.

If you want to give, make sure you have enough for everyone that is present.

Gemami.. “I do not see the parallel, and to link one to the other speaks volumes on the degree of prejudice of this post. TOC needs to moderate such comments more than some others it had moderated.”

i disagree that TOC should moderate my comments… it reminds me of any issue close to my heart.. so nothing wrong with me comparing the two in my opinion.. i did not justify the violence..

according to some reports.. this man lost his house (probably for not able to pay for it)… i don’t think any of his families got killed by anyone (just my assumption)… if he could resort to violence… and most say we should look at why he do it… then shouldn’t we do the same to the Palestinians?

“57) biab on January 12th, 2009 4.37 pm
He is aiming at those people who seem to think its justified.

Whether or not he is mental is beside the point; some guy got burnt. Its a senseless attack. I don’t give a rat’s ass if he is LHL or SHT or Teo Ho Pin. Burning someone up is wrong.”

You still do not get it. No amount of saying that it is wrong or that it is not justified is going to reinstate everything back to the original condition before the event took place as this unfortunate incident has already occurred and damage has been done.

By saying that it is wrong with a straight face and without looking at the root cause, hence learning from this incident and making necessary corrective action, if any is to be taken, is not going to help anyone or solve anything.

to to biab:

And burning someone up will?

The system here is so cleverly DESIGNED such that the people can be denied many things that are rightfully theirs eg accountability and fairness in elections.

Those at the helm know the possible outcomes of such endgame scenarios when they decided to implement such a strategy.

Those who benefit under such a system will support it wholeheartedly.

Those who are disillusioned will either migrate or suffer in silence. While many families have migrated, the planners obviously know that those cannot migrate will just have to suck it up since they have been conditioned to be obedient from young.

So the possibility of resorting to violence, whilst miniscule (given our compliant society) is not unexpected. The more the people are oppressed without any feasible opening for change, the higher the chance of such events happening in future. This is the sad reality.

Those who have agreed to join in the system to reap the benefits walked in with their eyes open; It is a calculated risk.

So whilst I do not condone violence, unfortunately not everyone in this 4.8 million population will see it this way. I hope our our leaders will realise that the more they deny the people’s needs or rights by offering illusory solutions, the more they are setting themselves up for such violence. Eg vote us out if you dont like us but we’ll raise the number of candidates in GRCs anyway.

I hope our leaders can be more reasonable in the years ahead. The people are not stupid, and can see through self-serving or placebo-like policies. There is still time to change before the situations gets worse.

The ball is now in our leaders’ court.

Will they choose to continue to set themselves up for more trouble?

61) Muhammad

The Israeli–Palestinian conflict is not as simple as attacking the person who took your house. In any case, I doubt you are able to look at it objectively.

There is already a thread for that, let’s not turn every discussion into that.

“63) biab on January 12th, 2009 5.55 pm

And burning someone up will?”

The offender is going to pay a heavy price in terms of punishment. As to whether his action is going to make people think hard and change, your guess is as good as mine.

Utimately, whether the grievance of the offender is valid or not should count towards any rectifying measures that need to be addressed & taken.

Hey it is not fun at all to be at the receiving end of such cruel & dangerous act which happened to be the only last crude & desperate way the ‘offender’ knew how to drive his message across.

Do you think he was able to write letter & also to the right organisation to warrant official attention and be taken seriously by anyone given his status of life. I am guessing and you may have your guess also.

justice. ag words ring strong. an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life.

nothing matters. justice must prevail.

they hv already set the tone for judgment. i’ll be surprised if any of them wld claim some among of…rees…reess….responsibility.

their eyes are already red. red for justice. justice from the highest institution. somebody must pay. somebody will pay. it doesn’t matter justice must be balanced by meeer meerr …i can’t even utter the word here.

too afraid that it will set a precedent. too afraid it will happen again.

justice. justice must reign.

remember, we are always white, never grey.

an eye for an eye,tooth for a tooth, blood for blood and fire for fire is the way of peace, stability and prosperity.

and in the way he knew how, he submitted to the spirit of ….justice.

Violence is not allowed for burning the MPs and I hope similar punishment can be meted to AH LONG who tried to burn down other people house. If someone wants to punish the attacker severely, than those runners who worked for Ah Long should serve the equal degree of punishment

I do not buy the authority”s explanation that the assailant is a mental case. The attack appeared by be well thought out and planned. Not a deed that could be carried out by a crazy.
What set him off? Not included in the ang pow list even though he thought himself to be a deserving case? Did he know of someone less deserving and yet included in the ang pow list?
The authority need to investigate to uncover the truth.

69) pumpkin on January 12th, 2009 9.05 pm
Did he know of someone less deserving and yet included in the ang pow list?

I think quite possible too or else why should this poor chap lose his mind, or maybe he was promised earlier that he will be getting and later his share goes to someone else instead.

Sounds like a familiar call for us to ‘forget it, it’s happened, let’s move on.’ I agree that when moderate attempts to reform the government fail, then the system is barreling towards violence and extremism. Then LKY’s threat of calling the army will come true.

are we taken seriously? Or are we only taken seriously when we’ve done something wrong? Calling the guy crazy is just the easy way out, like press whitewash. I for one don’t think he is fully crazy, but everything can come down to being crazy tio bo?

What he did was wrong. But calling him crazy and putting him away when it was shown that he didn’t appear with a chopper and that only SHT kena should mean SOMETHING for the government – that it is time for them to look at their policies again. We are tired of the same old bullshit time and time again which people are beginning to see through.

Do we want crazy guy to become a martyr?

you mentioned -> ‘if you’re fed up about the current state of affairs in Singapore, for whatever reason, there are many things you can do’

Please don’t BS!

I suffer in slience all the while, went to see MP. Email to MP no repsonse at ALL!

If MP ignore you and never respond, can YOU tell me where to seek help?

hello Johnny Kid….

Agree with you.. its not as simple.. it is way more complicated… anyway.. not my intention to change this topic to the middle east conflict… i apologise for that… but thought there are some similaities in these two issues…

when cornered with not much alternative… some people will react in stupid ways… like setting someone on fire… or suicide bombing… isn’t it stupid? act of desperate men!!

I wonder if this cabby is very rich what would happen?
I mean, of course, would he still be driving taxi?

which taxi company he rents taxi from?

poor thing, i wonder what his future will be like and
how he could earn money to stay alive if his license is revoked?

the best thing and right thing to do is to help this man who is traumatised by the tough living environment he has been through. not all are built equally. Some have handicap in some areas and the high pressure kind of life style may have deteriorated his condition to the point of no return. I heard of how tough taxi life is. they wake up early or work till next morning depending on shift and runs around island wide looking for customer whose payments are used to offset his rental payment to taxi company whose profit is derived substantially from these cabbies who actually rents taxi from taxi companies and this to me seems to be part of revenue for taxi companies. driving can be fun. but as a cabby, who drives for 8 hours or more and some drive 2 shifts in a row for 6 to 7 days a week, that is very hellish. many got piles caused by long hours of continuos sitting. some get shan guang due to day light driving and too much sun . some lost their wives due to long hours away from home . the tough life style creates more problems from 1 problem. like a vicious cycle.

if he born with silver spoon, hey, he may be an elite without having to work so hard as a cabby ? maybe is maybe not.

Koh Jie kai ,
Please get your facts correct. Benazir Bhutto was murdered.Yes, By who? It has not been known till now.So dont point at anyone especially religious group.
It could have been CIA/Musharraf !!!
Zainal

some people are just too….inexperienced to understand #72.

there is an appearance of help available but the reality is, it is not as accessible as one might think

the frustration and desperation are real.

there are many stories, all disappeared into confidential blackholes, the public has no access to for the sake of maintaining …our “clean image”.

public confidence and correct perception of authorities are vital to “good governance”

some things you can’t talk about for fear of being…sued or “punished”

that’s how we achieve an “efficient and clean” image.

sshhhhh.

dun worry about mr seng lah, he’s got very very very high salary which can last him a life time and he can get very very very first class treatment which will make him alive and kicking again.

what i worried is that this gahmen is going to ask for pay raise for themselves for being in a highly risky job.

gd luck for the rest of us. my heart goes to the poor and needy who can’t even afford medical treatment.

No place for political violence?

Two Singaporeans just got arrested for peaceful expression of support for their Myanmar activist friends.

No place for politics you mean?

Incidentally, how did a man with history of mental illness get to become a taxi driver?

So Koh Jie Kai – your remedy for unjustness and ill-treatment is keeping mum? There’s a word to describe this: N.A.T.O. You have not been pushed to the extreme. You are well-fed, lived under the shelters of your parents, and educated.

Does living in poverty, homeless, and nowhere to turn to help, being isolated and totally desparate mean anything to you? What is the real feud between this mentally unstable man and Mr. Seng is unknown. Have you tried to seek out why this man is “mentally unsound” in the first place?

Do you think it is justified if some retirees decided to beat the hell out of say, e.g, the person who introduced the toxic Lehman Bro products to them, and cause them to lose their entire life savings? Or should these retirees just smile at the person and say, “what to do, it has happened, let’s move on”.

And what? Can you gather enough materialistic people to form a war?

Anti-PAP sentiments could also be a basis for these cynical comments.

I think its the time for the opposition party to voice out and ask what cause this to happen?show Singaporean that they care abt Singaporean welfare and state of mind during these times.
and if they are unable to do so,can TOC begin asking around?

69) pumpkin: “I do not buy the authority”s explanation that the assailant is a mental case. … The authority need to investigate to uncover the truth.”

But do you really want to know the truth or hear what you like to hear?

If you just want to hear what you like, no amount of evidence can convince you of the truth. Stop hoping someone else commit an act of violence on your behalf so that you feel good.

this place is abt winners. if you are a winner, someone might just “sacrifice” himself for you( and have your valiant acts gloriously reported in today’s papers too). however, if you are a loser in life, nobody will “sacrifice” for you and your misery increases as a neglected soul to become the ultimate anti valiant( read: never “sacrificed” for winners)

perhaps, the old man would have been better treated(helped) as a …. DOG?( eternally grateful for crumbs falling from the rich man’s table?)

A surprising number of responses to this article! There has been some misunderstanding over what I did, or did not say. Perhaps I did not make the points in my article clear enough, so let me clarify a few things:

1- No one would rate our protection of civil liberties as “good”, or even “satisfactory”. The best you can say about them is that they are “not terrible”. There is a lot of work to be done to improve our position on that front ( and the arrest of the two activists outside the MOM is a good example of that ).

2- I would say that in the Singapore context, despite the stifling political climate, political issues can generally be negotiated, and sometimes resolved, through peaceful methods. And most of these methods would be lawful.

So to illustrate, the campaign to get some form of public protest to be lawful in Singapore, was both driven by peaceful yet unlawful means ( the SDP’s many protests), as well as pressure from the public through lawful means ( e.g. blogs). Eventually, the government made some concessions (Hong Lim Park). Were the changes all that campaigners had hoped for? No. The changes made pleased some free speech campaigners, and displeased others. But that is a fact of politics.

Similarly, if you’re wronged by being mis-sold a bad financial product, the options to act are not either “nothing” or “beat up the guy who sold me the bad product”. A third option exists. It is called “law”.

3- Working to achieve any political change whether in Singapore or elsewhere, is difficult. It is even more so in Singapore because of the lack of avenues for political expression. Even so, armed revolution is not necessary to achieve political change, as I have explained previously.

4- Above all, I am concerned about any inkling of sympathy for violence as a means to resolve our political problems. You cannot dismiss this lightly as a harmless way for citizens to “let off steam”. It brutalises a country’s political culture. It isn’t what I want to see in this country’s future.

Hi Muhammad,

Thanks for elaborating and giving us your reasons on why you see the parallel in the two issues. If you, (and TOC), may allow me to reply . . .

I asked for moderation because your first comment was a sweeping statement without supporting evidence on why this case is similar to the conflict you mentioned.

Secondly, the sweep included everyone who had posted comments prior to yours, and your suggestion that we are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, cannot be so generally surmised, based on the comments that are clearly posted according to the situation of another altogether different incident.

I am still asking for your comments to be moderated because your follow up comments, on why you see there is a parallel between the two issues, still does not, in any way, link the two.

The reasons you gave in post #61 are purely based on assumptions and hearsay, as your comments in parenthesis suggest, and does not in any way contribute to the discussion of this article. Even if it does, it is still a totally different issue altogether.

As an aside, and according to the words of our minister for Muslim affairs, Yacob Ibrahim, we must accept and recognise that the state of Israel is a legitimate one, and we must respect its sovereignty. It is by accepting this truth, that we can make progress toward a lasting peace, which is what every party wants and longs for.

For as long as we continue to harp and cling on to prejudiced opinions on Israel’s legitimate occupation of middle eastern land, we will not be able to work toward the peace that this world is so much in need of. This must not be read as an acceptance of atrocities committed by both sides, and in your case, particularly, Israel.

I shall not proceed beyond this post to comment any further on this issue, in this thread. We must accord TOC the respect as host. The best way to show our appreciation is to keep to the subject matter of each thread.

This will allow the rest of us to continue our discussion on the subject of this tread without having TOC closing it down because of deviations.

You may want to write an opinion piece to TOC for publication and discussion on your take on the Palestinian and Israeli issue. We will be glad to discuss with you in a new tread.

“..apparently mentally unstable attacker.” – this is reported by the mainstream media, so how credible is this. Though not condoning this act, one must evaluate why it has happened? in our civilized? society.

What would a 70-year want in terms of free speech – you got to be kidding. This appears more to be of a basic need, which the MP apparently is totally oblivious of. The current gvernment policies of not taking care of the needy has apparently led to this.

“…a culture of tolerance for violence as an answer to political problems does nothing to help Singapore develop as a liberal democracy.” – I think you are kidding yourself. Are Singaporeans violent or is resorting to violence? This is a one in a million case, where this person is pushed to a corner with apparently no way out, for him to end up in this predicarment.

“No, if you’re fed up about the current state of affairs in Singapore, for whatever reason, there are many things you can do. Write for TOC, or to Singapore’s many political blogs, or to your Member of Parliament, or to the press. Turn up at a protest or two at Hong Lim park. And so on.” – who are you trying to kid? write to the TOC? what has the TOC been able to achieve so far in these terms? Tan Kin Lian who appears to currently have a high profile, is totally ignored by the government. Who is TOC?

“The Government has already made limited concessions to freedom of speech online. If we want the political freedom of adults, don’t give the Government excuses to give us the privileges of children.” – hello – free speech is a right in the constitution NOT a privilege. The government has taken away most of the rights of free speech, in the mainstream media, and in the various avenues. I don’t suppose, the TOC is one of these?

@86
2. Do illustrate how the third option for being mis-sold a bad financial product actually has tangible results. The people are being left stranded in the open – and I wonder how much faith they have left.

82) dd on January 13th, 2009 12.17 am
Anti-PAP sentiments could also be a basis for these cynical comments.
——————————-

do you mean everyone should be Pro?
yes / no ?

Well with retirees losing their savings due to brilliant sales tactics of the leading bank, many losing their jobs to foriegners, cost of living going up and our first world leaders leaders getting out of this world salaries and advising the population not to depend on them, there is bound to be a lot of people who will go cookoo like the old chap indicted. I recall the slogan “no one will be left behind” and something like “moving ahead together”. Look around folks, there a people doing $50,000 cooking holidays and many more who cannot afford a $5 meal.

Everyone is pushed to the limits in Singapore. Mentally unsound person suddenly becomes aware that he did not get his $200. How did a mentally unsound guy become a taxi driver? Maybe he was not a taxi driver after he became mentally unsound. Never know if you read the local media.

“In & out of IMH”?

How’d ya know?

From the ST?

Remember a vice-president of DBS’ Malaysian brokerage was also committed to IMH for trying to recover debt from a powerful person?

If the Singapore govt still believes that Singaporeans are dumb and dumber when it comes to politics, they are very wrong. Fire attack on an MP is one sign of dissatisfaction among Singaporeans. When the REAL crisis comes, you realise there’s no one around in Singapore anymore.

“86) Jiekai on January 13th, 2009 7.47 am
You cannot dismiss this lightly as a harmless way for citizens to “let off steam”. It brutalises a country’s political culture. It isn’t what I want to see in this country’s future.”

You are right. It takes two to tango. How to know the foot steps of your fellow opposite partner ? It takes certain degree of intimacy. In our national political parlance, it means ground feel and the managing it the right way.

What is the right way ? Nothing formulaic but the nuance to adjust and adapt finely when it is called for in order to ensure good results which correspondingly means to ensure that nothing nasty happens.

My opinion is thie ecent should read as a repercussion of social injustice. Political violence is out of place here.
Even then, I dont see Dr Chee behave or acted violently. I dont see the late Mr JBJ violent too.
If one is to speak about politcal violence, I can say our civil servants, the men in blue behave ‘violently’ – arresting non-violent protestors, those who sit-in, those who write critical blogs. Their violent behaviour is in the category of ‘intimidation’ and carrying out duties/orders with bug numbers of people.

I agree with Jie Kai. I hope more Singaporeans will stop lamenting about the space we don’t have, and instead make better use of the space that we DO have.

My sympathies to Seng Han Thong and I wish him a speedy recovery. No one deserves this, no matter what he did or who he worked for.

What about the Political Voilence committed against Political Opponents of the PAP by the so called impartial Government Departments?…..Victims of Political Voilence; JBJ, Chee S.J; Said Zahari, Chia Thye Poh, Lim Chin Siong and many many others..was the Voilence against these people justified?…Voilence is not physical voilence alone…

we hear that there is those irrational acts of violence, committed by those that are pyschological unstable, mentally ill, well supposedly, and more often than not by people who are not capable of any other means of action except resorting to physical violence.

and on comparison sometimes, locking up people, depriving them of a livelihood, making life difficult for them at every single corner seems the logical and most rational action to take.

#96) now that you talk about Dr Chee, i also realise that although he protests a lot over the years, he has never been violent or attacked anyone.

I guess he is a gentleman politician in this aspect at least.

Vivtimised Citizen (#98),

Political violence includes non-physical aggression too!

Duress, if any, is the worse form of Violence that Violates the human mind.
Like Raping in public the mind, the soul and the heart violently, over and over again, each time, the damage exponentially is inflicted, causing never closing gap in the wound.

Its the worst form of violence.

17% burns… the palm roughly equates 1%. the upper body 8-9%. the privates, 1% regardless of size

so go figure how badly burnt he is.

if only the 70 year old uncle had been alerted to social workers…

it could have been a happier cny for the mp

my bad.. its 15% not 17%

It is simply actions and reactions.

There must be underlying reasons.

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/singapore/1747-man-sets-singapore-lawmaker-on-fire

It’s celebrated by the SDP, a promoter of HUMAN RIGHTS.

The govt shld take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are still in touch with the ground, with the ordinary people. WKS first words were to to warn that violence cannot be tolerated but didnt go further to assuage the public feelings that perhaps the 70 yr old attacker had a legitimate grievance too, altho that shld not be a right to attack someone and endanger his life.

My sense is that there is a lot of bottled up frustrations on the ground with the way things are, and even public rants have been like like so much head-bashing against a wall of denial, of shameless high-salaries, of flaunting of wealth, of hypocritical remarks, of dismissive wave of the hands. As we drown deeper in the recession, I think things may get worse and not better.

Minister MPs should come out of their ivory towers and their GCB (good class bungalows) to connect with the people. Why quibble and split hairs over nickels and dimes for the poor but pour billions into longkangs in risky investments from town councils and our GSIC/GLCs? Where is the big picture? Have we lost the wood for the trees?

I have completely lost all respect and confidence in the Political Leaders from the PAP….they have totally abrogated their fundamental duty of looking after their constituents especially the poor (or insane) who forgo Psychiatric treatment because they could not afford to pay for the medical attention.

Or the poor who do not have Electricity or Water because they could not afford to pay the arrears

Or the marginalised who had their flats repossessed.

For example the perverted logic that they “HELP” the poor to get their Electricity Supply reconnected by INSTALLING PAY AS YOU USE Meter …which provides ONLY 80% of the Value of Payment ….how machevellian and perverted a logic…this is a very good example of the perverted nature of the Government We have now.

Meanwhile We have Permanent Secretaries and Politicans who earn obscene salaries in the Millions of dollars paid by Taxpayers and going for 5 week vacation and spending close to $50,000 in Fees (excluding Air Tickets and Lodgings) just to learn to cook French Cuisine.and then rubbing salt into the woiunds of the poor by bragging about it in the National Newspapers.

Or charging conservancy fees that will result in more than ONE BILLION $$ in surpluses and then gambling in Highly Speculative and dangerous Mini Bonds and Structured Financial Products and losing Millions in the process.

No wonder there are people like this 70 year old driven to the wall and retaliating the only way they can i.e. VOILENCE….This is not an isolated case as claimed by one of the PAP Politicians but the TIP of the ICEBERG as our society drifts farther and gfarther apart.

If the PAP does not correct itself and stop their cruel an inhuman policies the day may suddenly come when “Storming of the Bastille” occurs…..it will be too late then for the PAP.

I may not be so prone to VOILENCE but I certainly will excercise my rights in the the next General Election.

Today news says govt going to pump SGD35m for mentally ill. Why waste these kind of $ & time? These ppl should just be kept lock-up until they pass on. Anyway, every citizens in Singapore deserve an angpow during bad times. Why exclude some ppl?

Hi #109) loop,

Why pump in $35M you ask?
Don’t you think MM is worried sick already?
SHT got burnt and now he is being targeted by the same type of people they have created.

Faster pump in money to address the situation before another fiery encounter.
His daughter can have more business as she is a neurosurgeon, and therefore an assured bonus at the end of this downturn year. Can kill two birds with one stone then why not?

The math adds up, doesn’t it?

Just in case TOC might find this out of context, I must add that mental problem is adding to the political violence in SG, in recent times.

All you points seem to say:

Attack on PAP MP: warning for PAP

What if an oppo MP was attacked: Natural answer–government agent.

and why bother with human rights when you all celebrate attacks and destruction? Why not go to Gaza?