Story by Ching Ann Jie
When Mr Moe Kyaw Thu took part in a protest to support the Burmese people’s struggle for freedom in November 2007, he did not realise that he was putting his own future in Singapore at stake.
Mr Moe is now racing against time. His work permit expires on 20th January and all his earlier three appeals to the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) for extension have been rejected. He has appealed to the President and the Prime Minister of Singapore in a last ditch attempt at trying to avoid being deported.
In November 2007, Mr Moe had taken part in the Orchard Road protest by about 40 Burmese nationals. The protest was held at the same time that Singapore, the chair of ASEAN then, was hosting the ASEAN Summit at the Shangri-la hotel. The protesters had marched down Orchard Road, wearing red t-shirts and holding placards calling for ASEAN and the UN special envoy Professor Ibrahim Gambari to take a harder stance towards the Burmese military junta. (See here.)
More than one year on, Mr Moe, who has not been warned or called up by the police for any investigation with regards to the protest, is being asked to leave Singapore. In all his appeals to the MOM, he was not given any reasons why his work permit was not being renewed. The only answers he has received from the ministry were terse, such as the one given to him on 16 December last year. It said simply:
We have reviewed your appeal but regret that it is not successful. Our decision to reject your appeal still stands.
Rejection after rejection – but no reason given
Mr Moe, 35, has been working in Singapore since 1997 with Sembawang Engineers and Constructors Pte Ltd. He is currently involved as a site supervisor (purchasing and administration) with the LTA’s Circle Line (Stage 5) project.
Mr Moe’s problems started in November 2008, when his applications for a S-pass and a renewal of his work permit were rejected. No reason was given for this rejection, even though his employer was willing to extend the term of his employment.
He appealed to MOM in an email dated 25 November 2008, stating that he felt that he was “being punished under a generalised misunderstanding” with the Overseas Burmese Patriots (OBP) – of which he is not a member. Neither is he a member of any Burmese organization. Unlike the members of the OBP, Mr Moe did not have his particulars taken down by the police, and has never been called to the police station for an interview. (Members of the OBP have encountered problems in having their permits renewed, as documented in yawningbread.org)
This appeal was rejected.
Still determined, Mr Moe sent another email on 16th December, asking for “compassionate support to rescue my life from ending in a Burma jail” as his picture and name had been prominently featured in newspapers and video clips about the May 2008 referendum, where more than a thousand Burmese visited their embassy in Singapore to cast their votes. Mr Moe wrote that he feared he would be charged by the military junta for disrupting the referendum and public tranquility, or violating the press law if he returns to Burma.
This appeal was rejected, and again, no reason was given.
Together with his friend, Mr Moe headed down to the Ministry of Manpower on the 2nd of January 2009 to personally appeal to the authorities. They met an officer there and spoke for 45 minutes about the problems he would face by leaving Singapore. Mr Moe says the officer confided that she could not share the reason why his pass could not be renewed. She then told him to send another appeal, saying that MOM would reply accordingly.
In his last appeal to MOM dated 3rd January, Mr Moe asked to be allowed to stay in Singapore for a period of 6 months to a year so that he could arrange for relocation to another country.
This appeal was rejected once more without explanation.
“Contempt for the law” but no prosecution?
The authorities’ press release on 12 January about the arrest of the two activists (see here and here) who protested in support of the two Burmese finally gave some concrete reason for the non-renewal of work permits for Mr Moe and his friend, Mr Win Kyaw, who is also being asked to leave Singapore. (Read MHA and MOM’s press release here.) It stated,
“They have shown in their actions and attitude a wilful disregard and contempt for the law and the Singapore authorities.”
Mr Moe does not deny his involvement in the Orchard Road protest, the candlelight vigil outside the Myanmar Embassy (both in 2007), and other events. But he questioned the authorities’ press statement, saying, “If we broke the law, why don’t they bring us to court?” he asked. “It’s not fair. If they mention the law, they should charge us.”
“In September 2007, after the PM and foreign minister’s announcement, we thought the Singapore government was helping us to support [the] pro-democracy [movement],” he says of the public statements by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Foreign Affairs Minister George Yeo, who had said:
… we could not stay silent when the Government violently cracked down on peaceful demonstrators including Buddhist monks. ASEAN would have lost all credibility otherwise. Developments in Myanmar cast a pall on the entire region and have been raised at the UN Security Council. ASEAN’s policy of non-interference cannot be rigidly applied when internal developments in a member country affect the rest of us. (Source)
What Mr Moe cannot understand is why the government renewed the work permit of his friend, Mr Win, in January of 2008 if, as the MOM and MHA said in its latest press release, that they had shown “contempt for the law.”
Mr Moe asks why it has taken one year for the authorities to take action. He also questions whether such actions were arbitrary and selective. He pointed out that of the 40 who took part in the 2007 protest, some were called up for police interviews, others were not called up at all, while now some are having their work permits not renewed for taking part in the protest. But none have been charged under the law. “Why don’t they charge all 40 who took part in the protest?” he asks. “Why not treat everyone equally?”
The Ministry of Home Affairs, in August 2008, had said that some Burmese had “persistently ignored police warnings in the past year”.
Minister of Home Affairs, Mr Wong Kan Seng, had cited the “persistent defiance of the laws”, in September 2008, by the Burmese as one of the reasons why the work permits of some Burmese had not been renewed.
“If we broke the law, why not charge us in 2007?” Mr Moe asks. “Their words and actions are different.”
“I want to respect the law,” Mr Moe says. “If I break the law. I still want to go under the law. If they really want to do it by law, they charge us and our lives can go on.”
He stressed that the 2007 protest was a peaceful one and that the protesters had obeyed police instructions when approached. (See Straits Times report.)
All he is hoping for now is for the President and the Prime Minister to grant him his request – to remain in Singapore for 6 to 12 months so that he has time to look for another country to go to. “My return to Burma is of great concern affecting my life, my family, friends… prison for decades would be the severe result,” he said in his letter to the President and the PM.
Mr Moe has already booked an air ticket while he awaits an answer from the Istana. He is unsure of his future plans.
“Singapore is my second home,” he says, having lived here for 11 years. “You can say we are part of Singapore.”
He hopes to return to Burma one day under different circumstances. “I love my country. My dream is to live in my country,” he tells me. “A fully democratic country.”
————
Win Kyaw
Mr Win Kyaw, 39, has been in Singapore for 13 years and worked as an aircon technical officer at Nanyang Polytechnic. He too had taken part in the November 2007 protest but his application to renew his one-year work permit was approved in January 2008. Like Mr Moe, he had taken part in the protest as an individual and not as a member of any organization. In the wake of the destruction of cyclone Nagis which struck Burma in May 2008, Mr Win donated 10 per cent of his monthly salary to the victims.
His work permit expired on January 14.
He has left for Cambodia with his wife, who is a Singapore permanent resident.
———–
Additional reporting by Andrew Loh.
———–
Read also:
Straits Times: Why Burmese activists were deported
Reuters: Singapore arrests opposition members in Myanmar protest.
Replies by Minister George Yeo to Questions (on Myanmar) in Parliament on 22 Oct 2007.
———–
TOC Focus Week: Migrant Workers in Singapore:
TOC Expose: Repatriation companies by Jolovan Wham.
A 19th century page from a 21st century draft by Ng Sook Zhen.
“I hope Singapore government punish them” by Andrew Loh.
The Story of Delowar by Deborah Choo.
Mega Development projects and labour supply chains – who is responsible? by Stephanie Chok.
Sent home with $600 by Deborah Choo.
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Ching Ann Jie,
Nice tearful story specially when you phrased: “HE DID NOT REALISE”.
“When Mr Moe Kyaw Thu took part in a protest to support the Burmese people’s struggle for freedom in November 2007, he did not realise that he was putting his own future in Singapore at stake.
The work permit forms and in fact all the forms very clearly indicate in point 3 what was expected of him in order to grant him a work permit:
“Further and in addition, I hereby declare that: –
1. I shall not ….
2. I understand that if I breach any condition above, my S Pass / Visit Pass will be revoked and I can be prosecuted in court, or
expelled and prohibited from entering Singapore.
3. I shall not misuse controlled drugs or take part in any political or other activities during my stay in Singapore, which would make
me an undesirable or prohibited immigrant under the Immigration Act.”
All Burmese know the conditions and sign them before they are issued with a permit, the same conditions are printed on all the forms. ( ref to MOM’s web)
Nice story but please check your facts before you publish them, very embarrassing. They made a mistake that is a fact but what you printed is not believable.
Bfair,
Then why allow them to stay for one more year? Then why did the authorities renew Win Kyaw’s work permit in 2008? Why the selective treatment of the 40 who were all treated differently?
Get your facts right.
#1) Bfair,
2. I understand that if I breach any condition above, my S Pass / Visit Pass will be revoked and I can be prosecuted in court, or, expelled and prohibited from entering Singapore.
Why wasn’t his S Pass revoked then? Why was he not prosecuted? Why was he allowed to continue to stay and work in SG till the expiry of his previous permit? Why didn’t the prohibition take immediate effect from the time he was seen to have breached these conditions? Why wasn’t he expelled immediately if he is deemed to be an undesirable element to our soceity? Why put the soceity at risk to undesirable elements? Why is our national security put at risk? Do we want to wait till too late to discover another Mas Selamat in our midst?
The reason why he was not taken to task is plain and simple, he did not breach any of the conditions. If he did, action against him must be immediate to address such a threat to our society.
3. I shall not ….take part in any political or other activities during my stay in Singapore, which would make me an undesirable or prohibited immigrant under the Immigration Act.”
I believe the ‘political activity’ mentioned here is a reference to the inteference in Singapore politics. This is why he was not arrested and no charges were pressed against him because his protest was against his own Burmese govt; which is NOT a breach of the clause above.
I agree with Gorilla Voice that you should take some time to digest and understand what you have read.
The first condition of S Pass / Visit Pass for Foreign Worker states:
“I shall not make any false statement or submit any document which I know to be false in order to obtain a S Pass or Visit Pass.”
Just thought I’d post the full sentence in Bfair’s post, which he has left out.
As for the involvement in political activities by foreigners, the recent MOM and MHA’s press release says:
“They are also free to organise and express their political views so long as these are pursued within the framework of our laws. This position applies to all foreigners living in Singapore.”
So, the question is not whether they are allowed to be involved in political activities – clearly, they are allowed – but whether the activities are legal. According to S’pore’s laws, the protest in 2007 was not legal.
Thus, why were they not charged?
The cold logic:
1. Executive order denying renewal is more effective than charging him in court.
2. Make an example of some is more economical than dealing with all involved.
3. Target the leaders and target the participants as well.
- No leaders, there will be no participants.
- Leaders with none or few supporting participants will have little impact and will die off eventually.
Less one FW is to the advantage of one local unemployed. It is sad for him but hopefully one of our local unemployed can take over his job.
Andrew,
I don’t think mentioning the other worker — whose permit renewal application was approved according to your article — and identifying him helps anyone’s cause. Not Mr Moe’s, and certainly not the other worker’s.
“Thus, why were they not charged?”
So you want them to be charged + work permit cancelled?
Isn’t having work permit cancelled only the lesser of the two evils?
political? letting in FT – even unskilled ones; and chasing FT out too.
I was asked to give some comments on this article as I am familiar with the affected. Unfortunately I cannot kiss and make it better it is beyond repairs.
All this saga has been going on since the Saffron Revolution in 2007, by then we had “some sort of support from the Government via Mr Yeo”, of course that was not what the junta wanted and the SP government’s tune changed it towards SP’s benefit.
The SP government sided with the junta and Singapore was chairing the Asean. Human Rights was a hot topic and the SP government had to support it with just ‘meaningless words’… deporting the “undesirable” Burmese was against the ‘humane image the SP government had painted for themselves’… this is the reason why Ali Baba and his 40 have not been persecuted, charged or deported yet… the only way to get rid of the “undesirable is by refusing to extend their work renewals”… this is being generous according to the SP Parliament members. The Burmese that have left the island have been escorted to the borders to make sure they left the country. Whether they are legally allowed to re-entry I don’t know, maybe their dollars are welcomed but working or overstaying will not be permitted.
Putting them in jail – how many Singaporeans support the death penalty on foreigners because they “do not have to provide for the survival of the criminals whilst doing time”. For the government it is costly to support a prisoner in jail and taxpayers are not happy with this either, it is better to get rid of the “undesirable”, too expensive to “feed” them behind bars.
The recent changes to the law on political activities have changed only last year, this problem started since Oct/Nov 2007 when the first march happened. The new laws cannot be applied to these two Burmese.
If anybody is free to express their political views “within the frame IMPOSED by the law” then, why Singaporeans wanting “real” democracy get persecuted? Discrimination is not only for the locals it extends to the foreigner workers… Why the Chinese were allowed to congregate in front of the MOM’s offices weeks ago and last 14th Jan, 2-SP activists have been falsely accused of trespassing. If everybody is treated equally according to the law, can anybody please explain that which I cannot see?
We choose what we want to understand, we choose what we want to read and the SP government is very chosey with their words, they cover themselves very well. You have to be well trained to read between the lines of the many forms foreigners have to go through. Many of these foreigners do not speak fluent English to understand the conditions, they just sign on the dotted line.
The Singapore Government cannot afford to spend on jailbirds, neither can show they are inhumane with the “undesirable Burmese”, besides they must protect their “Asean’s naughty and criminal relation the Than Shwe Regime and its generals”, birds of a kind flock together.
If nationals from Burma or any of the other poor countries bordering Singapore were in the position to obtain their survival in their homelands they would not dare visiting glamorous Singapore as the island is being shaped for the “wealthy only”.
Many Singaporeans have made their homes abroad for the same reason. The low pays cannot provide them with a decent living as the cost of living is extremely high in Singapore. Nobody wants to work for less, only the “needed” has to bend their heads and try hard but when it is time to express their opinions, discriminatory censorship convention ignites. I am sure the locals won’t take the crap the foreigners do with the manpower laws.
I strongly feel ALL foreigners under the same conditions should leave the island but where?
People are nice all over the world, unfortunately greed makes leaders repugnant conveniently moralists.
If anybody is offended, I love saying it as I SEE it. I won’t follow any comments, thanks for reading my views.
black kettle,
1. you are more native than i tot, if you think there is always a one solution that fits all.
2. if TOC aspires to be an credible alternative media, they would be objective. They will not be twisting facts so as to fit their ‘stand’. i.e have a ‘stand’ defeats their objective of being a credible alt media.
3. EVEN if TOC has a stand, there is still a difference of not wanting FWs and getting of FWs unfairly.
So, Burmese people working in singapore should not utter their concern for their country? I wonder like this , how burmese professionals here feel? alas, i no access to these burmese to ask them.
By the same token, if Thai or China or Indonesia got similar thingies, their workers here also should not utter their concern?
how can they utter their concern in a legal way? if any?
“If we broke the law, why don’t they bring us to court?” he asked. “It’s not fair. If they mention the law, they should charge us.”
They have already sentenced you: exile, life imprisonment in a Burmese jail, or death. The “best” part is they don’t have to get their hands dirty. Let the military junta do the dirty work. Uniquely Singapore.
black kettle
these are completely two different issues entirely. it is unwise of you to fudge them together just to challenge anti-estab views. we are not so easily confused nor diverted by such tactics anymore.
8) black kettle on January 15th, 2009 12.09 pm
Is TOC not consistent? If FTs stay, you say they rob jobs from local, and is PAP’s fault. If FTs leave, you say PAP force them to leave unfairly.
Singapore should welcome a level of foreign workers. Sadly, when the foreign workers issue come up, PAP always try to paint the matter as “all or nothing” and try to suggest anyone who raise the question want all foreign workers out.
In terms of foreign workers working in Singapore, the question should be:
Whether there is excessive foreign workers in certain sectors that suppress the wage and squeeze out locals?
We should not mix the matter of excess foreign workers in certain sector with this particular case. This is an issue of executive order targeting specific individual that raise question of fairness, safety concerns of the individual, and human rights concerns.
BTW, where did TOC say something like “If FTs stay, you say they rob jobs from local”?, just wonder.
9) Merv
you missed the point. the whole issue is if they did indeed breached any conditions/ law, why wasn’t the punishment meted out soon after the incident? why allow him to continue staying here for 1 year then refused the renewal w/o reasons given?
By now, everyone should know that protest of any kind without approval of the authority (which is quite ridiculous as protest with approval is no protest) calls for trouble. With regard to foreigners, the most expedient way is non renewal of permits. For Singaporeans, it is being handcuffed and charged in court or being detained without trial under the ISA.
16) sarek_home
i agree with you. excessive is the key word here.
we are now seeing many FW/FT doing jobs that can be done by most sgreans. this is the grating part. because of the excessive FW/FT here, wage has been suppressed.
sgreans, who have to deal with the sky-high pricing of HDB flats, simply can’t afford to accept a job that cannot support their loan repayment! and it does not help that FTs are also a factor in pushing the property market upwards as they can only buy resale HDB flats. with HDB pricing new flats based on the market rate, the price can only go higher. you see this cycle? who ends up getting a raw deal? FTs who can choose to go back to their country anytime or sgreans who have to stay here and face all these??
15/1/09
Dear Readers
This Burmese Mr Moe has no business to take part in protest in Singapore as he is a foreign worker whose main job is to earn a living in Singapore and he deserves to have his work permit to be rejected and also his appeal up to the President rejected. Let this be a lesson to all foreigners not to interfer in Singapore affairs including participating in any protests.I have no piety for this Mr Moe and he deserves this and he has to pack off and leave Singapore for good.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
This Moe guy just doesn’t get it. Working in Singapore for foreigners is a privilege, not a right. The privilege to work here can be taken away without giving any reason.
T, you missed the other part of it, which is, he is trying to get an extension so that he can have the time to find another place to go to, since he is no longer welcomed in SG. He has stated clearly that he cannot return home to Burma for to do so would be certain imprisonment and possibly death.
This is why he is so desparate, and this is why, reason, on the part of our govt, must rise over the need to kick him out of SG.
Our govt is really good at dismantling objectiionable personnel! :)
Chinaman, Indian, Burmamese., Malaysian (the pilot I remember clearly).. anyone who is involved in protest..instead of arresting them.. just let their work permit lapse and you will get rid of these people without any hoo-haa and it’s perfectly legal and legitimate.
I think that is something that other countries should take a leaf from..
Use peaceful measures and Don’t always use police force to remove people who are objectionable… sheeze…
People, not prosecuting them and allowing the passage of time running out on the passes is a bigger punishment . Plus bad PR if you prosecute another country’s citizen (perhaps there was no law broken/grey/etc) right after the incident.
Also, they have to return to their own coutnries and their own government will then ‘take care’ of them as the deem fit. Remember this is a country to whom we did not sell ‘substantial’ arms to.
I don’t mix the FT with a Humaniatrian issue. See each case for its own merits.
8) black kettle
There is no dilemma here. We want to compete with foreigners and restrict their numbers on fair terms. For example, by checking if there are local manpower before importing a foreigner, by increasing productivity, encouraging employers to hire locals, etc.
If your method of restricting their numbers is to abuse them, cheat their money, send them to their deaths, please leave us out of it.
The SS,
I highly recommend they apply for political asylum with either the UK or US. The idiots running Burma now just sentenced an activist to 104 years in prison.
That’s a sham(e).
Andrew (#20),
I have to disagree with you that it is wrong for foreigners to participate in any protests in Singapore, especially in Mr Moe’s case whereby his protest is against the government of his own country. He is not interfering with Singapore’s affairs at all. The Singapore Government is absolutely wrong in deliberately sending back the Burmese workers who had participate in pro-Burma protests.
black kettle
in a lot of cases, there is no such thing like a final stand. just like the egg or chicken comes first?! what may apply for one will never do for another. a human has to be flexible, but not at the expense of other people’s suffering
21) T on January 15th, 2009 3.44 pm
The privilege to work here can be taken away without giving any reason.
Think this way:
What kind of government will take action without reason?
What kind of government will take action without the courage to reveal the reason?
What kind of government will take action without reason that is fair, and compassionate.
20) Andrew Chuah on January 15th, 2009 1.38 pm
… as he is a foreign worker whose main job is to earn a living in Singapore …
Do you think it is wrong if foreign workers:
- participate in charity
- help save a life or catch a thief
- share their views and wisdom
Do we want to be welcomed as member of society when we live in another country?
Do you want to be resisted and limited to the role of a “human-tool” whose only role is main job is to earn a living and nothing else when you live in another country?
That’s not very fair,is it?
Foreign workers are guests. They must behave. Just like guests visiting your house, they must not misbehave by shouting and yelling. If they do, expel him to his own house. So Mr. Moe can go to Myanmar and protest, shout and yell in the name of freedom and democracy all day and all night for all we care. The military junta can hear his voice loud and clear instead of through the third party. This is true freedom and democracy in holding the bull by its horn. Good luck, my friend!
Like Mr. Moe, I and my sister felt that SG is our second home before. I’ve arrived to SG around 1996 and left 1999 to US. One of my projects is that MRT North East Line construction and I worked as a consultant at 2 Stations Project. My sis was graduated from Tamesak Poly and she worked at SBS and she was a PR too. Since I’m a former Political Prisoner from 88 generation, my sis followed my step involving in Burmese Political Activities in SG. Her PR was cancelled by SG immigration and she has to leave from SG. I have her detail interview with the officer and you know why they kicked her out?
The officers want her to be an informer for them. My sis refused to do so. (And one sad thing: the officer told her that if she cooperates with him, they can give her SG citizenship. How absurd! ) We’ve still have all documents and we are still waiting to mention everything in the media.
Well..don’t get me wrong… We still love Mee Poh from Toa Payoh, Chiken Rice from Novena, Sting Gray BBQ from old woodland central and Arnold’s Chicken from near Aljunis.. BUT…..
Muang,
I salute your sis in involving herself in the Burmese Political Activities. She is a true freedom fighter. However, she should be freedom fighting in Burma, not singapore.
I hope she can continue her fight when they send her home to Burma.
Singapore and her rules are not at fault, she has her rules and when it is broken, consequences (ask any singaporean who dare speak out) may be meated out whether it is right or wrong morally(violation of HR) is not the issue. All fw, immigrant w, refugee be worned, you are not FT(they are smart enough to not rock the boat) and will be made example of and be sacrificed. If Mr Moe and those like him want to rock the boat go to US, Canada, or Europe, there they will not take away your livelihood for HR activities, however whether you get the job or discrininated is another issue. If any one us who love their (moterland) country then we must fight our own govt in our own country from inside and not outside. It is cheap and cowardice of me to speak out from a screen eventhough big brother knows where and who I am. Unlike Mr. Moe and those like him, I am given the priviledge to demostrate and participate in any political rallies as I choose, yet I don’t. For that I thak you Mr. Moe. for your courage. Wherever you go please speak to your fellow country men(those are too comfortable living) to take part and be active, bring Myanmar to her potential. To those comfortable elite Myanmar living outside speak out for your motherland, the people of Myanmar are your people regardless of religion and race.
To all Myanmar activists I salute you. I also thank TOC for their work to bring issues that are concerned to Singapore and Singaporeans.
Maung,
You know the rules. Since you have decided to play cross-country politics, then you have must prepared to be burnt.
To tiredsingaporean,
You asked why your comments are put under moderation. We hope that you will refrain from using vulgarities – whether they’re in English or dialect slang. Some others who do so are also put under moderation.
32) Toolang on January 16th, 2009 12.12 am
…… Just like guests visiting your house, they must not misbehave by shouting and yelling….
You don’t check the reasons they are shouting and yelling?
Your neighbour’s house is on fire. It happens to be their house. That is why they are shouting and yelling to draw attention, to get help.
Where is our compassionate and rational thinking people?
/// 28) sarek_home on January 15th, 2009 10.02 pm
21) T on January 15th, 2009 3.44 pm
The privilege to work here can be taken away without giving any reason.
Think this way:
What kind of government will take action without reason?
What kind of government will take action without the courage to reveal the reason?
What kind of government will take action without reason that is fair, and compassionate. ///
sarek_home,
Good suggestion and good questions.
Let’s take the example of the paragon of free speech, free assembly, democracy, transparency and accountability – the US government.
The US government did reveal the reason for the invasion of Iraq – weapons of mass destruction.
The US government did give reason for invading Grenada – to remove President Noriega.
The US did give reason for nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki – to stop the war and save American lives, though the real reason was that these 2 cities were carefully preserve (without any conventional bombing) so that they can see the impact of atomic bombs on these cities.
Mr Moe knows, or should know the terms and conditions of his stay in Singapore. We all know the reason why his permit is not renewed. Do you rather have a government, like the US, who give you some bull-shit reasons? Like there is no torture in Guantanamo Bay or Abu Graibe?
38) T on January 16th, 2009 10.12 am
Do you rather have a government, like the US, who give you some bull-shit reasons?
What you said address this one:
What kind of government will take action without reason?
But not the following:
What kind of government will take action without the courage to reveal the reason?
What kind of government will take action without reason that is fair, and compassionate?
If someone give you some “bull-shit reasons”, will you just swallow them? What will you think of the person who disk out those “bull-shit reasons”?
The government’s action will affect us, affect the nation. We need to take the government to the task for actions that harm / dishonor the people and the nation.
16/`/09
Hi Smallvic585 *26 & Sarak_Home *26- Mr Moe has been in Singapore too long and should know that by his participation in this protest is illegal (perhaps he has been misled by Quarter Baked Singapore Opposition parties) and hence I don’t piety him as we don’t need foreigners like him to create disharmony in Singapore Society. Perhaps, he should had thought of spending time doing some charitable deeds and return something back to Singapore Society, he is an educated man.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
“40) Andrew Chuah on January 16th, 2009 11.33 am
“Perhaps, he should had thought of spending time doing some charitable deeds and return something back to Singapore Society, he is an educated man.”
Not all educated men think like you.
40) Andrew Chuah on January 16th, 2009 11.33 am
.. we don’t need foreigners like him to create disharmony in Singapore Society…
What disharmony? Please tell us what disharmony he and his friends created?
Thais ‘leave boat people to die’
Thai soldiers are detaining illegal migrants from Bangladesh and Burma and forcing them back out to sea in boats without engines, survivors say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7830710.stm
Whose fault? Soldiers? Government? PM? Illegial migrants?
Oh well…
Most of us form judgements without truly knowing too much of the subject.. me included. So, whatever your stance is, I suggest a reading of Burma Chronicles by Guy Delisle. It’s a graphic novel of his one year stay in Burma, done in cartoon style. You can finish it in a day. Great for those who don’t like wordy stuff. It’s sold in Kinokuya.
Andy Panda 40
“Quarter Baked Singapore Opposition”, you sound funny, is this why you are digging to mix them together and fill a report for your boss?
[don’t "piety" him], the highly educated have no time to read how close foreigners are and how charitable. Just an echo of his leaders.
Foreigners do no create disharmony, natives like you create the mess the country is in right now.
/// 39) sarek_home on January 16th, 2009 10.33 am
38) T on January 16th, 2009 10.12 am
Do you rather have a government, like the US, who give you some bull-shit reasons?
What you said address this one:
What kind of government will take action without reason?
But not the following:
What kind of government will take action without the courage to reveal the reason?
What kind of government will take action without reason that is fair, and compassionate? ///
Sarek, I thought my examples also cover point 2.
The US did have the courage to reveal the reason for the invasion of Iraq – that Iraq possessed WMD. And we know that is a bull-shit reason. The US did reveal the reason for nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki – to stop the war. And we know that that was also a bullshit reason. They could bomb the hell out of those 2 cities using conventional weapons and bombs. To fry your fellow human beings with atomic bombs must be your idea of a government which is fair and compassionate.
Is the US helping carpet-bombing and napalming Vietnam fair and compassionate? Is the My Lai massacre fair and compassionate?
Better still, if you have been following Malaysian politics – the Malaysian government threw a female opposition MP (Theresa Kok) and a female reporter into ISA detention because the government wanted to protect the detainees. Now, I suppose you would call the Malaysian government fair and compassionate.
45) T on January 16th, 2009 3.06 pm
You missed this part of my reply:
If someone give you some “bull-shit reasons”, will you just swallow them? What will you think of the person who disk out those “bull-shit reasons”?
The government’s action will affect us, affect the nation. We need to take the government to the task for actions that harm / dishonor the people and the nation.
Which is why no reason given is better than bull-shit reason. Let’s be clear again. Do you accept that letting foreigners here is at our will and pleasure? And can be revoke without giving any reason? Or do you rather that foreigners can swamp this place and when they infringe our laws, are treated better than our own citizens?
Mr Moe broke the law – illegal assembly and demonstration. We can even do that. And they are our guests and they want to shit all over this place? Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.
How does it look to you? Foreigners are free to demonstrate and assemble illegally, but Singapore citizens are not. Ya, ya, I know you can do that at Speaker’s corner, but who wants to go there.
sarek, your good intention is misplaced.
Mr Moe is the one whose actions have dishonoured Singapore and Singaporeans. If he cares so much for his fellow Myanmese, he should go back there and demonstrate. Not demonstrate here and cause embarrassment and diplomatic complications between Singapore and Myanma.
Yes, I agree the government’s action will affect us, affect the nation. It will affect us because there will be one less ungrateful foreigner to compete with our citizens for their jobs. It will affect the nation because Singapore will not then be put in a difficult situation vis-a-vis our ties with ASEAN in general, and Myanma in particular. You will do well to remember that ASEAN subscribe to the policy of non-interference in each other’s domestic affairs.
Dear T,
I don’t think it is necessary to repeat my post “28) sarek_home on January 15th, 2009 10.02 pm “.
I disagree with your reasonings and your views. Let us just agree on disagree.
Regards.