Report by Shamim Adam from Bloomberg:
Singapore’s population may shrink in the next two years as “sizeable” job losses amid the city- state’s deepest recession force 200,000 foreigners to leave, Credit Suisse Group said.
About 300,000 jobs may be lost by 2010, two-thirds of which are held by foreigners and permanent residents, economistsCem Karacadag and Kun Lung Wu wrote in a report received today. The number of people on the island nation may fall by about 3.3 percent to 4.68 million by 2010, Credit Suisse said.
Companies in export-dependent Singapore are firing workers as demand for goods and services ebb. More than 10,000 people were retrenched last year and a worsening economy may result in job losses tripling in 2009, reaching numbers not seen since the Asian financial crisis a decade ago, the government said.
Read the full report: Singapore May See 200,000 Foreigners Leave, Credit Suisse Says.
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What goes up must come down.Time to go back to basics and build a proper country.
With almost 200,000 foreigners moving out of Singapore by 2010, I am sure many of them would be selling their houses/flats/condominiums at a discounted price since they would be in a hurry to leave Singapore. It is time to start hunting for real estate bargains!
they come here for money.
if no job, where got money?
maybe they come here for the flyer?
if sg continues to be export-reliant,
does it mean, the next financial crisis,
surely will go down again?
why not have a solution to fix this light bulb?
afterall , got talent of the record kind right? as justified by their renumeration package?
Oh no…..no more foreign talent to save us. must be the fault of the lesser mortals.
indeed
many will HAVE to go
without a doubt
including my kachangputeh angmor CEOs’ clients as well
they are the ONE that pay me a decent adhoc wages
by THE HOUR
not by the job
aiyoh yoh
mus bang pillar lioa…
CY
“Time to go back to basics and build a proper country.”
Thank you. You’ve uttered in such a short sentence what I couldn’t put in words. It’s time our pledge meant something. :)
I just showed the Bloomberg report to my PR colleagues and they are all shaking in their pants right now.
Time to take Singapore and give it back to Singaporeans! ! !
Yes, time to go back to basics! We have had enough fun already and it is time to seriously grow up and settle down.
This will be severe impact to the housing market that was highly inflated in the last few years. Good luck to those who bought property for investment and rental returns.
Life is like that! Loyalty is very cheap and who ever pay you higher you go!
Don’t be stupid to think foreigners will served in Singapore when economy is bad,
who ever pay you higher, you go!
But I agree with Gov polices to bring in foreigners to boost our economy,
Whoever study economy know that increase in land, labour and method of production will increase the economy but disagreed that foreigners only pay $500, so cheap!
Singaporean pls don’t be stupid to think this is your permanent home, there is always somewhere out here! Life is short, we never try never know!
I can’t wait for that day to happen.
Honestly, SG is much too crowded nowadays. We seem to be stepping on toes all the time (think MRT rides). Missed the 80s and early 90s…
Wonder if 200,000 S’poreans will just disappear so that FTs will not lose jobs?
Juz turn 200,000 S’poreans into pet-food or satay.
200,000 S’poreans will disappear so that 200,000 FTs can remain.
And S’pore will become a major exporter of pet food and satay meat.
Remember FTs are more loved than citizens who do NS.
At the risk of sounding xenophobic…i actually think this is good. The country is too small and too many people means too overcrowded. The govt lets too many foreign talents in. Then what about actual Singaporeans?
Especially those who are on the verge of losing their jobs. Priority should be given to Singaporeans first. We’re the ones stuck here. These FTs come only for money. When the sh*t hits the fan they all leave…. You think they going to defend Singapore during war??
Hah…They’ll always look for some other greener pastures to suck it dry.
If MNC and foreigners can relocate to other countries, why can’t we Singaporean?
Need to find out jobs opportunities in other country and what are the requirements for work permits in others countries! Like International English Language Testing System for Migration etc etc and how to obtain VISA or Green Card. Best you all had relatives in other countries to sponser you! ETC ETC!!!
They should have done that some 3-5 back instead they keep allowing these foreigners to flood in like no body business. However, there may be a danger of outbreak should these foriegners are told or forced to get out of singapore, especially those coming from 3rd world countries. Just imagine, alot of them who were promised or being made to believed that Singapore would be like a heaven for them and their families, either sold everything in their countries or find all means of monies just to come and settle down here. Now, should they realised their dreams been shattered, what will you guys think they would do now? Its not a joke duh! for local singaporeans, they can control but now we are talking about foreigners, people who do not think like the way we do, people who do not live the way we do, people who does alot more things that we local dare not do in their own countries. Consequence, consequence, this is what you get when mistakes, big ones are being done by our elites just because of $$$.
I prefer the format when new comments appear at bottom than at top – just a short feedback to TOC.
Better flow in the old format…
Not sure how the others feel…..
yah, me too. it’s quite confusing now… can revert back to latest at the bottom?
Good…God is fair! and i hope to see most of the dead logs (jia liao bi) in the government lose their jobs as well!
think in the govt is quite hard. they protect their own v fiercely. what i hope is only for those excess FTs to leave.
i’m looking forward to more breathing space in sg and the property market to normalise.
11) We the small people of Singapore on January 20th, 2009 2.27 pm This will be severe impact to the housing market that was highly inflated in the last few years. Good luck to those who bought property for investment and rental returns.
About time before these foreigners came, HDB 3 room rent was about $700 or less and 2 room condo in the east $1100, 3 room condo abt $1400. Back to basics is the best. Everything cheaper again.
Many employers in SIngapore like to hire FT as they are cheaper and are more willing to work long hours as compared to Singaporean. These are the two main attractions of hiring FT.
So these employers claimed that Singaporean are choosy, not willing to take lower pay, not willing to work long hours and work on week ends. These employers will start to compare us with the FT. Thus their preference of workers are FT. But they forgot that these FT are mainly from less develop countries. They never ask if they can hire an American, Swiss, Japanese or German with the same pay they are paying these FT now.
The Foreign Workers are here on a temporary term. They worked hard for 5-10 years, save the money and bring back to their home country. Convert it to their local currency and will translate to a very large sum. Something that they cannot achieve if they are to work in their home country for the same period of time.
Whereas we are Singaporean. We have nowhere to go and convert the money into a large sum. This is because Singapore is our Home. But I guess, many employers and our government have forgotten that.
If we are to go out of Singapore, for example into England and work there for 10 years. We may be drawing a lower salary as compared to the local there. We too can work long hours and on weekends too as we have no home to go back to. Moreover working overtime means more income. Thus after 10 years we would have save a chunk of sterling pounds and bring back to Singapore, converting it to quite a handsome sum.
I wonder how many people out there do make an equal comparison of Singapore worker with a Foreign worker.
Yes, foreigners please leave Spore, without them, cost will come down, Spore back to 70s or 80s where things are cheap. Why so “how lian” Spore want to develop so fast, as if within 30 years, want to be developed nation. Without foreigners, we are better off. Govt no need to create so many jobs and find no takers. Slow slow will do. Ministers also can survive with lower pay. Good for every body.
@22
Yeah man, soon will be the time where we can start dishing out our savings for some proper use
The garmen and EEElite are so fixated that the FT are better than Sing workers and so when the economy starts to recover and god knows when and they will bring them back. Then they will give the same reasons that they are needed to kick the economy into action. And Sing workers will be left at the end of the queue.
Same old jazz again.
Re: (14) Ashzley and others, my family was once an “FT” family who became Singaporean after having lived here about 13 years. Myself and my brothers all either went through or are going through NS (all combat vocations, no glorious desk jobs) even when we hadn’t got our citizenships yet, and no I am not in Singapore just for money (good grief no! Considering what I am paid!) . We are a middle income family, my father at the age of 60 just got retrenched, and none of us went to elite schools or had scholarships to prestigious overseas universities. To us, Singapore is home. I know I don’t speak for all “FT’s” but some of the criticisms leveled against them is rather unfair.
A lot of times, settling down in a new country is not simply a matter of packing a bag and going where the pay is more. Many so-called foreign talent do set up roots here, and contribute to Singapore. A lot of them have set up Singapore as their second, or even first home, and not all of them remain here just for the money, and certainly not all of them are fair weather friends of Singapore who will leave the moment things get messy. There are some that will, sure, but there also others who have lived here for a long time and deserve better than to be said “thanks for contributing to Singapore, now go back to your country you money-hungry pig”.
I love the fact that Singapore is an immigrant society and that most of us are either immigrants or at the most, grandchildren of immigrants. Does the government need to rethink its immigration policy? Maybe. Are Singaporeans being sidelined in favour of foreigners in some jobs? Possibly. But how is all this the ‘fault’ of the FT? Most of them, like any Singaporean, want just a good, comfortable life. While we’re saying “Singaporean first”, and there is a lot of justification for that, we can’t just say “oh FTs are here just for money and can easily kicked back to their home countries”. They are human beings too, not dispensable robots who can come here and leave at will.
What if the 200,000 foreigners lost their jobs but do not leave? They have invested so much money and time here and do not want to go home to face another miserable lives. They probably remain here as illegals and commit crimes to stay alive.Would life here be better then?
(27) pumpkin, I don’t think the issue is as polarised as that. As I said before, not all foreign talent here is just hungry for money, and I doubt that most of them have any appetite for committing crimes. We Singaporeans tend to view them with suspicion, and even dehumanise some of them as ‘dispensable’ or ‘a necessary evil’ (I have been called some worse things which I wouldn’t sully this page with that sort of language). I find it strange because most Singaporeans are either children or grandchildren or (at the most) great grandchildren of immigrants. People don’t come here expressly to ‘steal Singaporeans’ jobs’ or to commit crimes or to run away with pots of money. They come here to provide for themselves and for their families, just as Singaporeans go to places like Australia and the US. Would we like it if Australia reinstated its ‘white Australia’ policies and kicked all immigrant families out? Or if it said things like ‘if we dont kick them out they will stay here and commit crimes’? We would be outraged, and rightly so.
There is nothing wrong with having a Singaporean First policy, certainly. But we have to also stop viewing foreigners as enemies who are out to destroy the lives of Singaporeans. Most of them come here for a better life, and it’s not their fault that we have a clueless government that has run out of ideas to revitalise the economy, it’s not their fault that we have no healthcare for the poor or that our young men have to undergo two (my time 2 1/2) years of army. Why are we demonising them as evil, avaricious and crime-prone creatures, when a lot of the blame goes to our Dear Leaders and us for electing them? The way we speak cavalierly of just tossing them out is disturbing. Yes, the economy is bad and we have to protect the livelihoods of Singaporeans but does that immediately mean that ALL foreign talent is necessarily bad and must be treated like dispensable machines? Calling all of them potential criminals is certainly not a fair comment, as is calling them all fair weather friends and avaricious.
An important sidenote is that out of the unfortunate 300,000 people, 100,000 Singaporeans will be made jobless. We should not overlook this.
Certainly not, but our official PAP Newsletter, the Straits Times is too busy parading the fact that 30,000 jobs were created.
Yes, it’s not the FT’s fault.
Which is why sometimes you can’t help but be angry at the gahmen for their immigration policies. You can’t open the floodgates so wide overnight, and just hope and pray we all get along. And while I am disgusted by xemophobia, I also understand why people become xenophobic when they wake up one day to find so many people with different accents, different cultures.
Any policies that do not take into account human nature and behavior is bound to screw up.
I believe FTs are contributing the nation (Singapore) a lot based on my experience. For example, there were 4 FTs out of 5 IT staff in my last company. These 4 FTs out of 5 IT staff are contributing the company a lot. If that company cannot find these FTs, I am sure that company cannot operate. FYI, that company is financial company. Due to financial company, most customers of that company are Singaporean. If that company cannot operate, there are a lot of unpredictable consequences.
As a conclusion, most FTs here are not just to take money. They are here for contributing your nation with their professional experiences and skills. It is win-win situation for both.
So please stop view FTs as evil.
p.s. I am Sg PR. I am paying $$, GST and tax as Singaporean paid. Sometime I paid more that Singaporean paid especially in education for my daughters and health care. But the benefits are less than Singaporean as well as no subsidies. I don’t blame government or Singaporean about it. If I don’t like my life as Sg PR in Singapore, just convert to Sg citizenship or migrate to other country (such as Australia or US).
Hope all of you understand FTs and PRs.
Cheers!
I believe many Singaporean understand that FT do contribute to the economy as they bring their experience with them into Singapore.
Every FT has his own reason for leaving his home country to come here to work and some looking to settle down too. But I guess the main reason for looking for a job in Singapore is the pay, the experience that one can get from MMC here, the stability and security and because we are also very much Asian. Well, if any FT out there feels that what I’ve mentioned here is wrong, please correct it.
The above reasons are all very valid reasons for attracting the FT. But we need the other part to complete the picture – the employer. The employer is happy with FT because they pay them lower as compared to Singaporeans, more willing to work longer hours and week ends too. Very unlikely to job hop.
If our government is to set a rule on minimum salary across the board inregardless if you are FT or Singaporean, this will take out the attraction factor for companies hiring FT at lower wage. Do you think companies will still continue to take FT as they are doing now? I don’t think so. This is simply because of the bottom line – to lower operating cost.
But if once the FT becomes citizen, the status changed. The FT is now a Singaporean and have to pay all the high cost of living here. The question will then be – Can this FT still able to accept a lower salary as compared to fellow Singaporean?
Looking forward to the PRCs and white trash leaving our shores.
Hades.
Doing NS means you contributed to S’pore. Good for you and your family for wanting to stay and make it your home. I was refering to other FTs. Those who come here just to earn money with no loyalty to S’pore and some taking advantage of the easily approved PR system here. I have spoken to some with that mindset. They all wanna fly off to somewhere soon after staying for 4-5 years.
Being a Singaporean, of course, I feel that my fellow citizens should be given priority first and be cared for by the government. That is our right as citizens. Am I wrong to feel so? The analogy is simple if you have kids, you need take care of your own first before you can start adopting other kids into your home.
If I were to go to Australia I would expect the Australian government to first serve their citizens before me. It is expected. So of course, I would feel miffed to see fellow Singaporeans being laid off and struggling financially to raise their family and pay bills, while the foreign talent keeps flooding in. Prices of goods going up and now with the current economic environment. Its a natural reaction. I am not saying we should start hating all foreign workers.
21/1/09
This is good news and now local Singaporeans must not be choosy and take this golden opportunity and replace these 200,000 foreigners (now these foreigners realise that Singapore is no longer a paradise for them).
Regards
Andrew Chuah
As I read this, I read from elsewhere that 550,000 chinese are unemployed (or something to that effect).
I have a feeling most of those 300,000 foreign talents slated to go would not because it is even more shitty back home.
So this country will have many ‘heng heng’ people crowding shopping malls, giving everyone that ‘golden period’ feel.
Maybe Cordon Bleu Tan can entertain us with cooking lessons while we twiddle our thumbs.
yeap the chinese government has already anticipated WORLDWIDE effect
when the world collapsed
they know very very well
many of their countrypeople will get kicked out in 1 way or another
as you can see aroun you
the local hawker centre cleaners is bein replaced by our owned parents/grandparents includin the kopitiams….
so what china is doin in china right now
is ^AREA^ cleanin jobs
repaintin the town all over china
the high streets that is facin the main road
not the side roads
this will create employments and the ici paint industries
so
who to says the chinese government are stupid or communists
except our mental1
he think they are stupid
but the chinese made a sucker out of him
humilate him
obama yesterday already spoken
he want to tell the chinese government don’t play prayed
you are too damn riched against the USA
you better upgrade your status and your renminpi
in which the chinese government do not WANT to do
this will made the cost factors high
investments/tourisms will dropped
and if the above 2 drop?
unemployment will began
now
if only our prince the prime minister is smart enough to be HUMBLE
and start learnin the art of the 3 kingdoms…..
by the way
some fortune tellers says i am chukorliang….
but i tell them
i am ticoliang….
21/1/09
Hi S K Chan
Read your posting *37-shocking we have 550,000 Chinese nationals in Singapore and I am sure they are 2nd and 35rd class talents and time for the Singapore Government to pack them off (“Tah Pow”) publicly like what our neighbours in Malaysia and Thailand had done, and are doing now. We don’t need these type of 2nd and 3rd class Chinese nationals in Singapore, worse they came and took jobs away from our local Singaporeans besidens creating social problems.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
35) ashzley on January 21st, 2009 10.45 am
That goes without the need that citizen MUST have 1st bite at the cake, Aust, US UK, Canada, Japan, and almost all the developed countries i can think of Citizen Must come first.
If Singapore don’t treat citizen as first choice, Then something is wrong, current ruling party ideology is screwed!!!!!!
34) Enough on January 21st, 2009 10.44 am Looking forward to the PRCs and white trash leaving our shores
I know what you mean the place where i work, the junior white trash also think they are the boss just because they got posted to some foreign land like S’pore
#33 Singlish on January 21st, 2009 10.40 am wrote: “But if once the FT becomes citizen, the status changed. The FT is now a Singaporean and have to pay all the high cost of living here”.
Actually it’s not true for all FTs. Based on my past work experience in an industry flooded with “FT professionals”, Indian FTs are the most likely to convert to Singapore citizenship only to use it as a stepping stone to jump to their next host country. Btw, it is really no loss to them even if they stay on in Singapore because India has a policy to welcome ex-Indian nationals returning to invest in India.
Comparatively, PRCs are less willing to give up their citizenship ticket home. I personally know of professional FT couples where 1 spouse take up Singaporean citizenship to enjoy the Singaporean “benefits” for their children, while the other spouse keep their original citizenship as a backdoor home. There are those who take up Singaporean citizenship while secretly not giving up their original citizenship. E.g. According to some PRC FTs, PRC govt will not actively check if their citizens overseas are going against the PRC laws by holding on to PRC citizenship while also holding Singaporean citizenship. As the PRCs say, their govt only care for the $ invested back into PRC by these overseas chinese.
Anyway, 200,000 foreigners is less than 20% of the over 1 million foreigners on Singapore soil. Does Singapore economy really need the remaining 80+% of foreigners? I am not saying that all should go, just that we need to re-examine impact of this exodus closely.
IMHO, minimum (hopefully “living”) wages will help to level the ground for the low-end Singaporeans workers. I suspect many of those leaving will be WP or S-Pass holders forced to leave due to non-renewal of permits. For the PMETs, my guess is highly skilled S-Pass, Employment Pass or Singapore-PR FTs will still be chosen over Singaporeans due to cost and work-hours factor. E.g. FTs willing to work for lower pay which still translate to significant investment $ back in their own home country. E.g. FTs either don’t have their family here or are willing to sacrifice family life in the short-term for $. I am generalising here, but it is an observed trend that Indian FT managers like to choose their own kind. Thus, in this bad times, it will still be Singapore citizens given the pink slip over the FTs, for the PMETs.
I like to share an job seeking experience I had a month ago.
There are ‘work care’ agencies around. check your hdb notice boards.
1 month ago, i went down to apply for job.
I am degree holder and highly qualified, the agent told me.
they say they only have low wage jobs like cashier, cleaners, waiter and the likes.
I checked their email address. It is not an official email of any company. It is a internet free email kind of mail address.
Not sure if these ‘work care agents’ are agencies belonging to any grassroots organization or are they private sector job agencies?
This episode created a few questions in my mind and made me realised somethings:
1. their email typed in notices pasted in many HDB notice boards are wrong and they never rectify even up to now.
2. the agent , who seems to operate in an RC office, told me i am too highly qualified. The next day, he told me to go interview for a shop assistant post.
What i donche understand is why he still do that when he told me i am over-qualified? trying to show he is helping?
3. the list of jobs, which appears to be vacancies, that he showed me are basically low education jobs as mentioned. I wonder are degree holders or diploma holders, both types of workers add up can be the majority of singaporean workers, provided help? Or are jobs created the ones that are suitable for non-tertiary grads only? If I am over qualified, why would employers employ me even if i ask for $1500 a month only?
4. This financial crisis hits the white-collar workers and that includes the degree and diploma holders. If its mentioned 1000 cashier jobs is created, and there are exactly 1000 unemployed all of which are degree holders, and non of these who applied for these vacancies are employed due to being over qualified, what is the success of this job creation? does it not mean foreigners are hired for these jobs eventually? My view of a successful job creation is like this:
1. 1 accounting/engineering trained person has found or is placed a job that relates to accounting/engineering. need not be accountant/engineer job or same level of job as his previous job.
Who is measuring the effort in job creation?
Who has the info to know exactly what real vacancies are created and how many unemployed have occupied these vacancies? How real are vacancies?
For example, if a person says there is a company called X INTERVIEWING for an engineer position. So, 10 qualified job seekers applied. But only 1 got interviewed but also is not chosen due to whatever reason given. Is a job created in this sense?
Sure, some may call the foreigners who came here opportunist but in many cases aren’t Singaporeans opportunist too for hiring them instead of locals because they can offer them lesser pay?
Our government adopt a very loosly regulated foreign workers’ policy firstly to cater to the demand of employers including our government civil and statutory department and even town councils who wants to lower labour cost to increase their profit margins to the maximum irregardless whether the company is export-oriented or domestic-oriented and secondly to makeup for the severe drop in our singaporean population growth rate. The only regulator provide by the no of singaporean against foreign workers ratio has always been beaten by shrewed recruitment agency.
Current policy resulted in foreign workers skilled, educated and unskilled overwhelm all types of jobs in all industries and sectors. The most common sight you can see is at the coffeshop and hawkers centre, where almost all the jobs from cooks, helpers to cleaner are taken up by PRC, Indian FT or Malaysian PR but the coffeshops’ and hawkers’ cooked food prices did not come down even with the low labour costs, so this is pure profiteering by employing foreign workers and many ex-singaporean cooks, helpers and cleaners who were replaced by the foreign workers now find it difficult to get a job unless they become their own boss.
Government should scruitinise the needs of the various industries and sectors that required foreign workers to help their competitiveness before allowing them to employ foreign workers. For example, whether the company is exported-oriented, whether the company need specialized skilled employees that are not found in Singapore, whether the jobs are shunned by all Singaporeans such as construction, all supervisors,all middle and higher management jobs should be reserved for educated Singaporeans as their numbers make little impact to the total labour cost of the company.
Singapore companies who are catering to the local needs should change their mindset of doing business. They should not take doing business just purely to make huge profit and forget the role of business to provide jobs for our local Singaporean.
In the current recession, companies should keep the job of Singaporeans as they are the want likely to spend more in Singapore to stimulate domestic demands. Foreign workers used to sent a major part of their salaries back home and only skimm and spend on their two meals a day.
“From Times OnlineJanuary 21, 2009
A broad rule of thumb, said analysts at UBS in Singapore, is that nearly every new job created over the last few years went to a foreigner. The economic policies of the city state have overtly relied on its ability to attract talent and skills from abroad”
Isn’t this infuriating- and they tell us that they were creating jobs for Singaporeans- what crap
To Hades : What’s wrong with Singapore first policy? other countries have them. YOu heard of the phrase “thai rak thai”? thai loves thai ..
Our brudders are frustrated that the govt chooses to open the floodgate to foreigners resulting in locals being displaced.
I’m sure you heard of the saying “charity begins at honme”?? thats all we are asking. we are not xenophobic
If Governement walk the talk, they should enforce their agencies to help employ locals and not on contract basis cause they encourged CPF, isn’t it?
Is very dangerious if a Significant pools of local unemployed Degree and Diploma holders were to get togethers to form a confortational front!
They should think of their perlis suituations now and what happend for the next election!
48) TrueBlood Singaporean on January 22nd, 2009 11.28 am
erm, i believe contract also got cpf wan. i many years contract staff. no company wants to hire perm, in my case.
44) Seelan Palay on January 22nd, 2009 1.09 am
You are right. Employers specifically.
singaporean employers employ lots of foreigners as they like the idea of lower cost, more profit. In this aspect, I cannot find a reason to hire a citizen. Why hire a citizen when there are millions from the world to choose from? hey , this is a pro business place also.
employers donche hire citizens due to loyalty. They hire due to cost. businessmen are businessmen. 6 kins no no.