From Mr Endoh’s blog:
The establishment of an association for bloggers has certainly been controversial in many aspects, which led many to speculate on the true intentions behind the move. I’m not quite sure if I can regard the enormous criticism as online flaming. However, some of them were pretty entertaining to read and that’s precisely why blogging is such a fun activity that everyone can participate in.
The past two days of catching up on the criticism has placed me in two different set of shoes. That of, a VP of the association and yet, also an independent blogger. This constant change in positions can be confusing if mishandled by myself when reading. That said, it also meant constructive feedbacks have been noted even if the association has not said anything. The sad truth is, only three bloggers/readers have managed to come closest to the motivation behind the association. Even more ironically, all three of them were found in The Online Citizen’s article.
Read the full article here.
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My personal concern goes very much in line with what I have expressed in the other thread, and it is plain and simple – that a bog, with such a name, coupled with the fact that it got itself registered, and with an intention to ‘represent’ the voice of bloggers in Singapore (see the parenthesis), cannot be seen anything more than a vain attempt to gain cheap publicity and fame.
There is a danger in such an endeavour in that it will be misconstrued as the voice of bloggers at large by the govt; which is very much furthest from the truth; never mind Endoh’s reassurance that this is not to be viewed as such. This will result in the misrepresentation of bloggers to the powers that be and can only lead to further detrimental damages.
In case one argues, like Jackson, that blogs go beyond those of socio-political nature, I must stress that even so, reflection of sentiments in other areas may also; and likely; be misrepresented by one blog, that might be wrongly deemed as the voice of bloggers.
In short, the registration and publicity surrounding the birth of ABS must be seen as an attempt to represent something to the powers that be. What is this representation it hopes and aims to achive? Please be forthcoming.
No use answering questions without telling us what you are and what you intend to be.
Well Gemami, i think you have said out the things that i want to say.
One more thing; it is a vile joke that you see our comments as ‘high expectations’ we are expecting from the association. Truth be told, we don’t care and we don’t expect anything morre than for the association to return to obscurity.
i am goin to draw you peeps a picture
in s short space
when you used YOUR credit cards
do you needs to tell the world what you spent on?
it YOUR credit card spendins a PRIVATE matter?
yes or no?
if you all says
its PRIVATE
how come when francis seow spent his AMERICAN Express credit card
the pap government have
EVERY details what he spent on
in AMERICA includin booze and liquors
so now
here we have
an association which is Soceity Registered
would you feel @ east when you are no longer governed by FREE internet
but must be documented and ^fingeredprint^ everytime you submit your click?
don’t believed
how about i tell you a kangaroo court which is not really based in australia
but based HERE in singapore?
enough said
Reeks of such arrogance. What high expectations?!
I don’t need you and you don’t represent me, period.
Geez, what people do nowadays….
I had trouble finishing endoh’s meandering article. Pretty bad writing for a VP of an association of bloggers.
I am sorry Gemami, but you actually sound so incredibly uneducated with all your wild accusations here. Endoh seems to have stated the of the ABS clearly. So have two others who were kind enough to offer their perspective to quel the lack of information. I readily admit this should have been dealt directly by Miss Goh, the Protem president of ABS. Maybe she was busy or this did not reach here. As I was saying in another thread, Jackson and the sgdad. Both seem to have bottled the issues and even given quiet a detailed analysis of the rights along with the pitfalls. Yet for some funny reason gemami not only do you seem to have trouble understanding the basic issues. Who have blown it out of proportion to confuse other readers here.
Have you thought to yourself this. If this was really a gahmen or mica trojan horse, why did sgdad give the green light. Bear in mind, these are the most paranoid people in our net, so dont you think they would have stripped and inspected every nut and bolt to see whether it is clean? if they give it a strong endorsement, dont you think its safe and bonafide? Another good point was what Jackson mentioned. There is more to blogosphere than just social political discourse, you know.
I happen to blog about food and such an association would really be useful for me to touch base with like minded people to further improve my content and presentation. Why are some of you here so afraid of change?
Hi Sue,
Allow this uneducated chap to reply with a word or two, would you?
… two others who were kind enough to offer their perspective to quel the lack of information.
Does it not support my accusation that here is a group of unknown wannabes who came out with a big bang, so big and noisy that the rest of blogosphere became deaf, and therefore the lack of information. You blaming me for the lack of information?
You are being very offensive for suggesting that commentators here take their cue from me. I believe they are more opiniated and discerning than you have made them out to be.
I readily admit this should have been dealt directly by Miss Goh, the Protem president of ABS.
I do not know about the others here but I do know that the rest (majority) of bloggers in blogosphere, do not seem to have a very good impression of her , except for this vain group of wannabes, who found it wise to appoint her president. The general perception, to name just one, so as not to offend her too deeply, is that she has personal vendettas to go after, particular with those who do not hold the Singapore passport.
I do agree that Jackson has brought across a valid point but I do not know why you miss my point that although his was a valid point, it also is valid for me to point out that misrepresentation could be the end result if the authorities were to take inputs from this ‘recognise’ blog only, regardless of the topics or purposes of their blogs. What is wrong with this suggestion?
As for SD, I think his position is not one of giving the green light to ABS, and you are guilty of misleading the rest here; but more so as an observer. You have read his opinion wrongly.
You talked about the basic issues of ABS but you do not seem to understand that we don’t care what the issues are except that we are taking issue with them for misleading netizens into believeing they are our representative in something which we still cannot seem to place. I have already explained this twice.
By your reation and comments, I can see that ABS is indeed trying to attain instant fame by using bloggers who have alrready made their niche in blogosphere.
Sad to say, some of us have seen through the instant noodle attempt of this vain endeavour.
“She has personal vendettas to go after, particular with those who do not hold the Singapore passport.” Did you know I happen to be a Malaysian?
“As for SD, I think his position is not one of giving the green light to ABS, and you are guilty of misleading the rest here; but more so as an observer. You have read his opinion wrongly.”
I dont think so, the liaison officer very clear. If he only had an opinion, he will keep quiet. I happen to darkness, he likes my blog. He has even posted there a few times. So I know them better than you claim to know them. If there was something wrong with this association do you think they will even bother to ask your permission or another here to shot it down? When did they ever need to ask permission to roll their tanks? So he gave it a very strong seal of approval and even used words such as “elemental right” which means no one can take it away from us.
As for Miss Goh, she may have some issues with some characters. I dont want to go there as I know nothing abt it, my concern is not the person but the system. So if she is not right, she will be kicked out. Nothing is written in stone. There are provisions for that in charter and the constitution of the association ya know or did you know dat Gemami. I stand by what I have said aboyut, you dont sound like an educated man, not by the way you seem to make a mountain out of nothing. Otherwise why do you have so much difficutly understanding the main issues? Why do you get sidetracked so easily and fall into a hole?
Happy New Year and Gong Xi Fa Cai to all; especially to you, Sue.
Hear from me after the new year?. Cheers ;)
Dear Sue,
>> “She has personal vendettas to go after, particular with those who do not hold the Singapore passport.” Did you know I happen to be a Malaysian?
It is irrelevant. gemami did not say she has personal vendettas to go after _all_ people who do not hold the Singapore passport.
>> I dont think so, the liaison officer very clear. If he only had an opinion, he will keep quiet. I happen to darkness, he likes my blog. He has even posted there a few times. So I know them better than you claim to know them.
Someone posts a few times on your blog == you know that person better? Are you serious? How do you know gemami doesn’t have his own secret blog and this darkness person hasn’t posted there many times?
>> When did they ever need to ask permission to roll their tanks?
I believe they need our permission when they claim to represent us.
>> Otherwise why do you have so much difficutly understanding the main issues?
The ‘main issues’ as defined by? You? What do you think are the main issues then, Sue?
>> I am sorry Gemami, but you actually sound so incredibly uneducated with all your wild accusations here.
You are clearly not in the least bit sorry. Stop patronising people, please.
>> If this was really a gahmen or mica trojan horse, why did sgdad give the green light. Bear in mind, these are the most paranoid people in our net, so dont you think they would have stripped and inspected every nut and bolt to see whether it is clean? if they give it a strong endorsement, dont you think its safe and bonafide?
People make mistakes. Are you saying that because says so, it has to be so? You are making a very mistake with your appeal to authority, especially since you haven’t even proven this ‘authority’.
>> I happen to blog about food and such an association would really be useful for me to touch base with like minded people to further improve my content and presentation.
Of course there is nothing wrong with a food association. There are, however, many things wrong with a food association that calls itself *the* food association and claims to represent all chefs/bakers/cooks etc on the internet without their permission.
>> Why are some of you here so afraid of change?
How on earth did you reach that conclusion?
I repeat, stop patronising people if you are serious about having a discussion. Even if you sugarcoat your words, an insult is still an insult. The biggest joke is that you are calling gemami uneducated, seeing that he has shown you more civility than you have cared to show him.
Dear Sue,
it is not very nice to pop out and accuse someone of been uneducated. that is one sure way of making a lot of enemies in one go. you sound just like some of the other people that gets nuke straight away after posting due to their lack of tact. I don’t think i need to spell out their name right? people here will know who those people are.
So let’s us try to be civilized? if not, there will be another of those bashing session, the last one been for Mr Panther and i really hope we can avoid something like that.
so calm down Ms sue, and courtesy of the hug campaign, a hug for you sue.
It is strange for an organization based on an online medium to have no website.
Considering the herd mentality of Singaporeans, I would like Mr Endoh to clarify with respect to the Association, what does Independent Blogger and Association Member means and how these 2 terms contrast with each other?
Good Evening Sue, Gemani and all.
You are seriously out of line to come in here and call people “un-educated.” You can certainly call someone stupid or even dense providing you furnish supporting evidence, but to suggest someone is un-educated because he holds a contrary view from you carries a elitist tone and it will never get you any votes online even if you happen to be right.
Young lady you have to seriously think about your choice of words. We cannot support stupid people like you. Otherwise people will think we too are stupid; then where will we be?
Another thing; we are not here to give out 2 or 3 or even 5 chili ratings; who do you think we are to even assume that sort of higher then art thou attitude; you have no idea how ludicrous you sound and how stupid you come across to every thinking person; I am frankly embarrassed; all we have done is to state clearly and unequivocally the 3 main points which we consider to be central to our decision why we do NOT consider the formation of ABS to be anything other than the exercise of “rights” by a group of bloggers – where did I even endorse it expressly or impliedly? I DID NOT! May I reiterate this under the strongest possible terms again so that no further misunderstanding may arise in future!
Whether this whole idea goes down well or not with the blogging community depends EXCLUSIVELY on how ABS manages the communication of the vision, mission and overall goal to the rest of the online community – One thing is clear, you cannot fault people like Gemani and many others here from speculating beyond what I may even have forward as our opinion concerning ABS – we do not have a mind control instrument here; people are free to think, express and draw their respective conclusions – IMHO Gemani underscored a a clever point one pertaining to misrepresentation – one thing is very clear from all this; more effort should have been expanded by ABS to furnish information to the online community; they have done a sloppy job – that is why in my opinion; Gemani and others have brought up valid concerns and points which must be addressed.
But what is your Queen of Sheba president doing instead? She is busy blogging about how she attended a Hong Bao event; is she stupid? Instead clarification came from Endoh; who in my opinion did a good job; but it should have emerged instead from the President – why isn’t she showing leadership in such times when the whole of blogosphere is obviously confused, confounded and reeling about what is ABS and whats its vision, mission and goal be? We consider this bizarre and incomprehensible!
May I respectfully suggest that the launch of ABS be rolled back till you some of the key members have hashed out clearly their roles and goals and more importantly hammer out a strategy how to coherently communicate their strategic intent to the rest of the blogging community; many good points have been raised here; this is a good place to start; my feel is this area that must be approach as a matter of strategic priority and I cannot understand why it has not been done – the blame must fall directly on ABS.
Finally, may I stress to all of you that no one should interpret our statements as anything other than our stated opinion on a subject; please do not attribute us; I am not Jesus Christ; for all you know I could be a talking toaster; you have to be stupid to base any decision or line on logic on me; please kindly conduct your own due diligence on ABS and remember you have to be really stupid to just buy into the idea just because we consider it a good idea.
Thank You
SD
Associations of any kind are plain politics to me, so I hope bloggers will stay free and independent as they are now.
Decisive, accurate and timely. I am for one very relieved that sd stepped into the storm and has reaffirmed their position of neutrality on the assoc of sing bloggers. This is a very wise move.
All these leave a very bad aftertaste, doesn’t it?
And the association is not even officially started.
I am glad the singapore blogosphere is not as stupid as they thought us to be.
Try harder with another colour uniform, another sheba queen or even another mission call.
Most importantly, try gaining our respect.
Thanks sd for the clarification andfor putting things in their proper perspectives.
Thanks too to SZ and all for the support.
I sincerely hope the association can now seriously deal with the questions we have posed and not to side step them with nonsensical discourse that do not do one bit of good in showing bloggers that the association is able to carry out its purpose of representing bloggers at large; as its name suggest.
And to state my position clearly, I do not agree with sd that it is even a good idea at all because the net ought to be free from such elements of control. The association of media in the US have proven such attempts to be useless and it will be no difference to these bunch of no hopers.
Look here Gemani, lets get one thing clear; some of your assumptions don’t make any sense; firstly no one can control the net; not when all it takes is 30 minutes to register a site in Sweden and 5 min to post a clip in utube; if anyone wants to control the net, then I say; they might as well go and sell the idea of ploughing the sea or something. If you know the net well, then you would have realized what you have brought up is really a non issue.
Secondly, Gemani we do see ANY basis to conclude ABS is trying to represent broader blogosphere; how’s that even possible? Most netizens already know the set pieces which make up the online landscape; no amount of hype and spin is going to alter that reality. Besides the MSM has been trying to do that for years and all they seem to do is reinforce failure, it doesnt work.
To be fair, a few members of ABS have already stepped forward to flesh out extensively the 3 points which I highlighted previously along with other worthy points. IMHO they have done a good job. We are satisfied.
Thirdly, we believe the formation of ABS is a very innovative step by a group of small bloggers to organize themselves into groupings to leverage on shared resources to maximize opportunities and amplify their presence; in our opinion, this is a model that offers tremendous scope for limitless opportunities if managed wisely; as what it offers is a viable commercial platform for many netizens to market and sell their products such as online love stories, games, products and services etc – so this move offers tremendous synergy for both public and private sector to come together under a workable common platform. We consider this strategic.
Gemani, Where I think 99.9% of contention crops up is NOT in the conceptual part of whether ABS will bring good. From our own readers feedback the support for the idea appears to be close to 80% to 90%; where the problem seems to arise revolves around the suitability of the president of ABS – specifically her torrid history with Ping – to be honest with you Gemani, I cannot comment further on this area as I am still in the seeking to understand stage; but let me just say; if this matter is not managed wisely. Then there is a real danger the personality issue may even mushroom and color the entire picture – our primary concern is this may demoralize the rest of the current members in the ABS and incapacitate them or render them useless; or worse still embroil them in cat fights which they really have nothing to do with in the first place, forcing them to take sides thus exacerbating the conflict – and this may in turn cause many to draw a negative a outlook on what we actually consider to a good development in our blogosphere.
Our hope is netizens will continue to exercise their judgment wisely by SEPARATING the conceptual from the personality issues; otherwise even we do not know how this whole matter can be resolved, let alone find common ground.
Meanwhile, we remain cautiously hopeful.
Thank you & Happy CNY to all.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
i am pleasantly surprised that this issue is generating so much discussion in cyberspace, much much more than le cordon bleu cooking class or the land of immortals and demigods.
i am always for freedom of expression and do anything you want in cyberspace without any restrictions or regulations from any self appointing authority to restrain bloggers.
i have formed the World Bloggers Association and everyone is a member. No need to pay any fee. Just pay homage to the Emperor, World Bloggers Association(WBA) will do. the first two members that have accepted the WBA have been bestowed the honour and title King, Eastern Blogosphere(WBA) and King, Western Blogosphere(WBA). Anyone paying homage to WBA can call themselves King of any precinct or country or whatever at their own fancy. and they can sign off their names with the respective titles.
i am just providing an alternative.
redbean, Emperor, World Bloggers Association(WBA) : )
You are welcome Gemami.
SD is right that it is near impossible to control the net. But there are some people who will try to gain control of a small area.
What some of us want is a net without restrictions or regulations *but ethics are needed*. and when somebody set up an assn of blogger for the net, it gives the impression that rules etc will be enforce.
ABS = Absolute Bull Shit?
wah still an association?
let moi the great anti UNIONIST of singapoor
draw you another picture
shall we?
when SILO was formed before NTUC
even started a minimart
who was the main brain behind it?
our ole president devan nair
he did it OUT of Passion
for the underpaid/overworked cheap labour class
when we were colonised by the great angmor clan
that era we have honest hardworkin ministers who
worked FOR the people
by the people
till our mental1 start retired all HIS kakis 1 by 1
givin them good retirement positions
such as turf club chairman blah blah blah
the REAL kakis of his decided to RETIRE for enternity
including our DEMOCRATIC OATH author
even our honourable dr goh keng swee migrate to china
to hep/built a relationship with the GREAT WALLs
the rest is history
the mental1 bein a KIASU man goes 1 step further
he musled into NTUC inc and placed a MINISTER as head
and buy up ALL the NTUC puzzle 1 by 1
makin it into a profit inc
nothin to do with real UNION works @ all
just a world showpiece so to speak
if 1 control the UNION
1 control the country
its as simple as that
\now this blog free internet has been a nightmare
for the mental1
he liked to control/muzzle EVERYTHINGGIE
even to the extend of tellin YOU peasants
WHEN to COPULATE
how to COPULATE
WHO to COPULATE as well
if he can get it approved by ^parliament^
which is so easy for him….
do you all know when billgates was in singapoor havin lunch with the mental1
he asked bill gate 1 question
can i control the internet?
bill gate replied
you mad or siow?
without the internet
what i sell?
even LINUX can go internet
FOC somemore…
~sigh~
is the picture CLEAR enough?
Hiya SD
FYI, did you know the president of abs was quoted to have said this recently. “Singaporean bloggers we….even banned for standing up against the foreign tyrant from self-proclaimed ‘community meta weblog for Singapore bloggers’
I am very uncomfortable with this xenophobic statement for two main reasons [so r many of my frens and so should you sd!]. Firstly, it assumes blogosphere is a country specific thingy. When its obviously a global phenomenon that has less to do with country and all to do with people. Tell me how will constricting views to only the homegrown created diversity and how might it engender the debate with a higher level of content. Hello, do you guys happen to produce better games if you kept it all a Singaporean effort?
Secondly what the abs president said will have the effect of polarizing bloggers in Singapore into 2 groups – Singaporean bloggers and foreign bloggers blogging out of Singapore. I had originally thought such a provocative statement would have been hit out by you especially SD since you know that such much of gaming is international and not local, hence its never going to be possible to deny the foreign component.
What may I ask is your position sd? And how do you intend to resolve this impasse which in my opinion is way more important than the 3 measly points issue you people seem to tag too no end? Just remember we are not stupid, just because you tell us all to keep quiet doesn’t me we will do it, if many outstanding issues are raised and not properly addressed. No one minds to tow the line, only please try to share with us all how such personal issues can be treated any differently from the conceptual which you shared with us. Life is not so simple. Things it seems don’t fit into nice pigeon holes.
send my regards to you know who lah!
The liaison is so right, how is it possible to even control the internet?
Life is not so simple, just bc u block info doesnt mean ppl will avoid it, we r not children. We will just get around it. You actually make it more attractive infact.
Censorship doesnt work all. The only thing it does is make ppl smarter.
Otherwise how can you account for the fact, so many sites which r never ever once mentioned by the strait times (not even once) cont to control so much attention in blogoland?
Answer that and I will gladly shaddap.
Good Morning pinkypandabear2
We would do well to separate the CONCEPTUAL from the PERSONAL issues surrounding the formation of the ABS.
My role was born out of sheer necessity; as many of you inundated us with questions concerning the formation of ABS; we responded to give you all a basis to make an informed decision.
The 3 main conceptual points which were deemed central to the decision making process were as follows:
“……does this association of bloggers attempt in anyway to represent the interest of the broader blogging society? Their president has stepped out and clarified their position very clearly – as an emphatic “no.” (They ONLY speak for their membership) Does it even attempt to impose a standard of “acceptable” or kosher blogging on those who may not wish to subscribe to it membership – again she has replied “no.” (that ONLY applies to their members) Does it stand in opposition to anonymous blogging – again “no.” (full disclosure ONLY applies to their members).
I have communicated them to the ASDF – they have taken my recommendation.
As for the personal issues; we do not want to go down that road; we do not see any mileage in pursuing those issues as we really have nothing to do with ABS; I agree completely with you, if we happen to be ABS members then we would certainly NOT be able to skirt those questions; but as you can very well see, we have neither equity nor are we planning to have any in ABS.
May I suggest you direct your questions to ABS. We consider this matter closed.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
“Secondly what the abs president said will have the effect of polarizing bloggers in Singapore into 2 groups – Singaporean bloggers and foreign bloggers blogging out of Singapore. I had originally thought such a provocative statement would have been hit out by you especially SD since you know that such much of gaming is international and not local, hence its never going to be possible to deny the foreign component.”
Let me put it this way; if a frog in a well stood up in hong lim gardens and proclaimed to the whole wide world that the known universe can be summed up as a giant blue disc – would that frog be able to alter our understanding of the solar system along with lets say revising Newtonian laws of physics? Would engineers in NASA recalibrate their understanding of rocketry to take stock of this blue disc theory? Will the UN convene a general assembly to discuss how global warming may be radically affected by this theory that our universe is somehow tied to the idea of a giant blue disc.? What do you think?
Please give our foreign channel partners more credit – we have known them for years – worked along side them in countless of projects – these are professionals – do you think they are stupid?
I think what we ALL need to understand is whatever ABS has to say about our blogosphere applies ONLY to their members and NOT to the rest of us.
As long as we keep reminding ourselves of this and fix this assumption firmly in our heads with anything ABS has to forward; then everything will sort itself out; if we forget it; we will get very confused and end up wasting a lot of energy chasing our own shadows – we need to be clear. Then we will make good decisions.
SD
“My role was born out of sheer necessity; as many of you inundated us with questions concerning the formation of ABS; we responded to give you all a basis to make an informed decision.”
(1) Sd. I disagree. If you look at the 450 or so questions posed to you guys in the both the SLF1,2 & 3 bulletin board last week alone. I would say most of the questions centered on the personal and not the concept of abs.
Instead of answering our questions as to what you ppl r going to do abt this, you very cleverly create an artificial distinction whereby you r able to give tacit support to abs yet conveniently not answer the question concerning many of the comments made by the president of abs.
I wonder sd, how is it possible even to separate the two? Arent they one of the same reality? Lets say President Obama is a personally related to Osama bin laden, would it not be a matter deserving of disclosure to the voting public in the us?
(2) Second point. In here and the SLF sites you ppl manage. You ppl keep on harping on abt these 3 golden points as if they are written in stone like the ten commandments. I wonder Sd did you ever read the other comments made by the president of abs in conjunction to what you very conveniently pick out as only the 3 main points? Such as how she believed that blogging in Singapore should and can be improved? Whose standard may I ask is she referrring too? And how might that even validate or invalidate any of the things mentioned in the 3 points?
Like many others here and elsewhere. I dont mind toeing the line as well. But I for one remain very disappointed that you people did not come out and take a harder line to push on our behalf many issues which we consider to be important.
Instead you call them irrelevant and not directly related to your decision forming. You have even told us not to worry about them by deliberately and wilfully misrepresentating to all of us that what abs may have to say will not have a direct effect on us all, when we have all written over 400 protest letters to you all to inform you otherwise.
So what are you ineffect saying in not so many words Sd? You pick and choose as well how and what you want to answer?
Happy CNY and Good Afternoon all,
I understand where most of you are coming from; but let us try to remain level headed; understand this. We do not have a diplomatic mission in every corner of blogosphere; it is really quite a big real estate. Having said that we do have network to gather intelligence and to even conduct a risk / threat analysis – perhaps one way of explaining this matter is to share how we typically make our calculations and you all decide – Firstly, you are correct in underscoring that what we may have done here is to create an “artificial distinction” to separate the CONCEPTUAL from the PERSONAL issues surrounding the formation of ABS – but the question is why is this necessary?
The short answer is there nothing wrong with the CONCEPTUAL. If you take a close look – its ONLY the PERSONAL issues which accounts for why ABS is facing overwhelming resistance on so many fronts and its really a very complex historical story of online vendetta’s. Its no exaggeration to even say, its really like the current feud between the Israel and their traditional Arab neighbors; here if we lack wisdom; we may believe we can gainfully make headway by just reading a bit here and there and taking a position; but trust me when I tell if you attempt to boil such a complex subject by reducing the entire argument to just the Hamas lobbing rockets at Jews or the IDF getting angry and deciding to interdict these militant elements then you will not get very far; here I am reminded of the adage: a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing; if we really want to understand the roots of the bad blood, then we may even have to go back all the way to the Yasser Arafat days of Intifada I & II / if we seek to understand deeper; then we may even have to go back further to Yom Kippur and 6th day War / further still the debate even threatens to overarch all the way back to the national-Zionist ethos before WW II / and we go further, we may even have to flip open our Talmud and Quran to understand the issues of middle east diaspora – do you understand how complicated it is?
SIMILARLY when we ask ourselves what really accounts for the bumpy launch of ABS – we would also do well NOT to dismiss these angry voices as merely emerging from the lunatic fringe; that means we need to understand the entire chronology and history of conflict that once transpired between Miss Goh (The president of ABS) with the admin who managed Ping.Sg. Bear in mind this is not a case of a handful of crazy people posting using multiple nicks; we are talking about a few hundred people many of them very intelligent who genuinely believe they have a legitimate cause célèbre and if you scale their network; we are talking about a few thousand people more stretched across different countries. Now I understand, that some people may believe, if I hide in the cupboard and stuff cotton wool into my ears; all these detractors will just magically melt away; well it’s not going to happen; we believe this people need to be engaged constructively; we believe their fears need to be addressed; and we do NOT believe we can or should even be part of this process.
The problem here is, it may not be wise for us to even appear; the problem is; if we even so much as appear; then some may correctly say; this is none of your business or worst still, we may be accused of harboring imperialistic designs and a hidden agenda; and they will be right to suspect so. Just imagine one day, if you are arguing with your wife; then suddenly one of our diplomats is teleported into your living room to mediate – what would you do? How would you feel? What will go through your mind? Do you now see the dilemma we are in? Trust me it is wiser if we maintain our neutral position and don’t get involved in things that don’t concern us. There is a time to make things happen and a time to let things happen; this is the latter.
I am sorry this really has to be my final post on this matter.
SD
Hi SD,
Thanks for your comments in post #21. I do agree with SZ that you have brought across some very valid and interesting points which I had hoped ABS would have taken the trouble to address rather than the internet liaison officer of the brotherhood.
I do know that there are potential for such an association but like I said so very bluntly and quite clearly, I don’t give two hoots what they think they can achieve or whether they will eventually fall flat on their faces. This is no concern of mine.
My only concern is that this association would one day go on to be the representative voice of bloggers, whether they had intended it to be so or not. Mind you, I am talking about representation in practically every subject; from tilet papers to printers to what have you. Then what? The rest of us who do not belong to this association will become voiceless again. Where then can we make ourselves heard outside of the association?
I will be very disappointed if the creation of such an association would result in us having to take a step or two backward. Can anyone see this? Or is my concern unfounded? Who can assure us? Definitely not one who is fighting for her credibilty at so many fronts, surely?
Good Evening Gemami,
This is a very interesting question. So of course, I will try to answer it my friend. But, If what you say is true. ie
“My only concern is that this association would one day go on to be the representative voice of bloggers.”
Then by implication; what you are also saying is there MUST also have been a team who has strategized and executed this plan? Yes? As what you have said requires extensive coordination and planning? And I really cannot see it coming together by chance – yes?
Now Gemami, this is the point when it all get slightly complicated. As you need to ask yourself a strategic question; what happens, if we give you the information here? i.e if we answer your question – Where does it go too? How might it be used? Can it be reversed engineered? Will it allow this team (if it even exist) to profile better plans?
Do you see our dilemma now? The game has just become very complicated now. You see the way I see it; if there is a team, they’re now sweating; they’re probably so nervous, they cant even tie their shoelaces without having a nervous breakdown – as its really gone quiet badly. Dont you think so? The question is will it get worse or better? Do they commit? Or pull out? Cut their losses? Or regroup and invest? Move forward or take a defensive position?
If what you say is true again Gemami – they dont know what to do. They are now disorientated, confused and all their intelligence is useless.
Do you now understand Gemami?
No I think from this point onwards we would have to be very careful what we release in the way of information.
Thank You and Happy CNY
SD
From this point onwards Gemami, they will have to get their all their strategic vision from the LKY school. From this point onwards, if it is black, we will say it is white, if it is right, we will say it is left, if it round, we will say it is a circle and so on and so forth. You see this is what happens when the game becomes complicated; the stakes go up; we will play it harder.
But what did they really expect in $2.2 million society? Anything else would just be an admirable sentiment.
You see this is what usually happens when stupid people think they are very clever; this is also what usually happens when they dont respect something or under estimate people to such an extent that they think that there are masters of the universe; that when they cut to size, they dont even see it coming.
Trust me Gemami, they have real problems now. As stupid people are really like ostriches; if they is a problem, they never ever face it squarely, they will bury their heads in the sand and hope for the best.
I think the only game in town now is the crying game – I see no winners Gemami, only losers.
Hi SD,
It is precisely what I have perceived from the outset, that an association that is so named, has given itself one reason why it is going to fall flat. It does not need someone like Jackson to point out that with such a name being adopted, it goes to show its itntention that reaches far beyond every field and scope of representation it aims to achieve.
Can such an association represent; say, food & entertainment, schools and churches, religions and communities, underwears and footwears, books and games & an endless list of interests, all at once?. . . . . we are talking about such representations; by a group of people having loads of trouble representing themselves, for their lack of integrity and credibility; and these same people harbour hopes of representing bloggosphere Singapore at large?.
Believe me, I have tried hard to refrain from giving this perspective and have limited my choice of words to taking then to task for their aim to provide representation in the socio-political realm only.
If the association can go on to represent all the other interests; well and good; if not, bloggers who think and feel they cannot be adequately represented, then it is their perogative to speak up.
On my part, I do not think this group of clowns can adequately represent the voices in the socio-political landscape in Singapore.
I do agree that Endoh has tried to address the situation but it is a vain attempt, to say the least, because he does not seem to be able to address the fundamental question of who or what the association hopes to represent, and whether they will be the cause of other serious blogger being overlooked by the authorities in serious matters of concern. This cannot be seen as a step forward in the right direction.
As for the advertising dollar; I do agree also that there are some who blog to make money but there are others who blog for the love of blogging. Bringing bloggers together with the main focus of tempting advertisers speaks to me of exploitation.
Here is a bunch of no-hopers who cannot create and sustain their own blogs who are now attempting to make use of the drawing power of well-established blogs to pursue their aims of making a decent income for themselves?
Let me tell all readers here, loud and clear, that there are more underlying reasons we can derive from such an attempt to bring bloggers together to form an association of bloggers. Like I have said right from the beginning, the naming, registering and appointment of some of its office bearers give us an idea of what this association is all about.
I have not yet even touched on the subtlety of its launch, and the ‘connection’ it must have with the MSM for the sudden write up of their exixtence and the subsequent follow up of the reaction to this write up.
It is up to people; like Sue for instance, to decide whatever they like and whether this association is of any good to them. For me, its involvement in the socio-political realm is not welcomed. period.
Gemami,
I think it is best to give them a chance to explain what is their vision, mission and goal. I cannot speculate beyond the 3 points, we shared.
To be honest with you. It is very difficult to get a firm handle on this. Not without information DIRECTLY from ABS<So much already is floating around in blogosphere. Most of it negative and bad.
I dont think its a good idea to speculate further my friend. Its like running an engine with no black oil – you will just end up exploding and making a mess.
The only thing I cannot understand is why arent they getting their act together to respond to this in a timely way. This I feel would go a long way to sooth much of the concerns out there in blogosphere.
SD
Why would you need an association for bloggers ? Must pay fees or not.
Can anything much better possibly come out of this than from the current scheme of things.
Do we also need an association to include anyone who knows how to breathe in air.
I just have a one question:
Can a Malaysian blogger represent a Singapore blogger in an association registered under Singapore Law?
I think it is good for you guys to pop in to Rachel’s.blog to get an understanding of what the association is all about. I feel she has made a good explanation to address the issues raised so far about the association.
I agree with SD and will take his advise to reserve judgement for the time being for the association to iron things out and to get its house in order.
Below is part of my comments to Rachel.
“It is a long and hard road, and it did not help with the leader of the association coming under so much fire. I shall not go into this as you have already made it quite clear that you will get the members to look into this in due time. Remember that hard decisions may be necessary for the association to succeed and there is no room for any of you to get sentimental over this.
I did read your blog about your meeting with Lim Swee Say and although I find nothing wrong with your little chat with him, I do somehow feel that you ought to be a little bit more level-headed and reserve comments like you find him a nice guy, honest and sincere even.
You do know that when one comes face to face with celebrities or VIPs, one tends to be more forgiving than usual; and this might make one overlook the faults that such a VIP is known for. Other than this, you’ve done well; very well in fact; so far. Keep it up. The association needs you at this point in time.
I shall, from this point on, reserve my further judgement and comments on the association, and; as recommended by SD over at TOC, allow you guys the time to iron things out. I believe this is a good thing to do for those of us still harbouring any doubts over the intention and purpose of having a group of people representing bloggers under the umbrella of an association.
Best of luck to you, Rachel, and the association”.
I am very disappointed with Jayne’s response to this saga.
This is her latest comment ….
“Guys,
I really cannot make head or tail of these comments. I’m trying to find out what’s happening? Even my committee members don’t know what’s happening?………………I’m really clueless.”
Jayne, Jayne . . . you aspire to represent bloggers, but where have you been when the storm has been blowing from all directions these past weeks? To feign ignorance? C’mon, it cannot be so lame, can it?
Endoh, pray tell us, she does know doesn’t she? Or have you guys been guilty of isolating her to protect yourselves by the distance?
This does not speak well of the association does it; being so fragmented?