In Singapore we have tripartism, and the tripartism has served us very well. It is a unique advantage, so as we go through this downturn, our challenge is to continue to unleash this unique Singapore advantage.
Both parties are under a lot of stress. So when we are under stress, that is a moment of truth. Some union leaders (and) some management under stress…end up divided. (For) some union leaders (and) some companies under stress, under heat, the heat bonds them together…
NTUC Chief Lim Swee Say, on NTUC’s aim to keep job losses below 29,000
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
If you like this article, please consider a small donation to help theonlinecitizen.com stay alive. Please note that we can only accept donations from Singaporeans. Thank you for your assistance.Do you have a flair for writing? Volunteer with us. Email us your full name and contact details to theonlinecitizen@gmail.com
[i]Some union leaders (and) some management under stress[/i]
limsiasuay under stress?
why countin so many ZERO in your cpf bird nest perhaps?
zero + zero=?
the answer is
NOT 2 zero hor…
please try again
do you need a lifeline?
do you need to poll the audiences?
is that your final answer?
This Chief is so bombastic. I am really impressed by his efforts for union members. Tripartite so unique and good good. Like to point out:
1. He said in a video, he supports companies to retrench if that is the last resort.
2. I wonder what happens when companies retrench as a 1st resort? What if that is the 2nd resort if not the 3rd resort? Which resort is the last resort? Can a 1st resort also be the last resort?
3. After taking the Job Credits, in phases of 3 months as per my understanding, when companies still go ahead to retrench, which certainly some will, is that money spent not effective in saving jobs? Its understandable that companies have no legal obligation to retain workers even if they receive Job Credits. Feel free to comment if i got this wrong.
4. Is CPF a significant factor that lowered singaporeans’ labor cost competitiveness? Is high office rentals ditto?
So, the Chief has made trememdous efforts to save our jobs and the reasons he gave are so valid also. Kudos to the labor movement. But, the above questions remain.
more good years ahead. Lets aim for swiss standard as we move on.
Ask why Lim Swee Say is coming out to defend the budget as pro-worker and not pro-employers/business?
Obviously the ground rumblings has got to him but how to speak with 2 hats – will he disagree with his masters and really fight for the workers his union represents? Like more benefits for the workers?
Tripartite, with two of the three merely different wings of the same Party, shafting the third.
Lim said :
“To keep unemployment low, the labour movement has made four commitments – it wants to be the most pro-business economy in the world, the most pro-worker nation in the world, and have the most united tripartite relationship, with a most caring labour movement. ”
I was shocked when he used the worlds ‘most pro worker’ in the same sentence as ‘most pro-business’. ‘shocked’ by his high aims and not claims.
‘shocked’ by his commitment to singaporeans.
shocked n touched. shocked in a good way.
Every single worker losing his job is one too many. Why don’t he look at how to save these 29,000 workers from losing their jobs instead. Is the loss of 29,000 jobs good news to crow about at all?
He is talking as if tripartism is so unique that only 29,000 jobs are lost. Does he see that 29,000 jobs is equivalent to 29,000 people out in the cold? If these are bread winners with wifes and children (average 2 children), we are looking at 116000 people in need of direct assistance. Why don’t he start to tackle this instead of harping on how well he has done to limit to 29,000 job losses.
Why must these PAP idiots always see the good side of a bad thing and not doing anything about the bad side of the problem? Can he tell us if he is able to find jobs for these 29,000 as soon as they are laid off? Can he tell us what sort of assistance these 29,000 workers can expect from the govt? Where are all these answers?
And he wants to represent the workers?
Warren Buffett famously said “It’s only when the tide goes out that you learn who’s been swimming naked.”
Right now the tide is receding rapidly. The market watchers should track how the pro-business (it’s not pro-worker directly whichever way one chooses to cut it) budget impacts the near term development. Did the GLCs benefit disproportionately from the Resilience Package?
Most public attention is focused on the $20.5B component. What about the rest? A leaner and more efficient government? A 6% increase in Mindef budget will certainly benefit the ST group of companies.
While HELP is shown to be there for unemployed white collar and blue collar workers,
What is More Important and Relevant is
how many are placed a job, which is what the HELP is intended for.
So, I am more concerned and interested to see how many are really helped in terms of getting a job and ideally not just a cleaner or waiter job but a job befitting a 1st world singaporean in a costly environment.
Is someone providing this statistic?
for example:
NRIC so-n-so, degree grad, engineer , 25 years experience, retrenched on Sep 2008, last drawn salary $6000. ==> new job placed in Feb 2009, salary $1000, cleaner, 5 star hotel. shift work with OT required.
like this is clearer mah.
Joseph Stalin says “A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”
I guess for him, the retrenchment rate is just a statistic to him, while not considering the tragedy for the people
Tripartism sounds like a dirty word. I only start hearing it during this crisis. The job losses in this crisis will be unprecedented and the severe impact will not just be statistical.
The recent budget will help the companies to a certain degree but severe job losses cannot be totally averted as the revenue impact may be more than 12% as seen in the wage credit. In order not to have an avalanche of social problems associated with the massive job losses, the government may have to look into some jobless aids to help those who lose their jobs tide over this long recession.
Lim Swee Say as head of the workers movement must robustly champion the workers’ interest within the tripartite. In what is supposed to be a rescue package ultimately for the benefit of workers and the people of Singapore, it turns out that companies turn out to be the main direct beneficiary getting the lion’s share of the $20.5 billion help package. As sure as the sun rises, companies will still fold, workers will still lose jobs or suffer pay cuts. To these workers, the money which will go to the companies will have no benefit to them.
Not by any measure is he, as supposedly the workers’ champion, justified to declare full satisfaction with the direct allocation to workers and to those who will be retrenched. Why didn’t he tell the public that he had fought for a bigger direct share for the workers, even if he failed to get his bosses, oops I mean the other members of the tripartite, to change their minds.
Do you notice that with all the distractions of the recession and the help budget, the govt. has opportunistically sneaked in an increase of almost $1000 million to the security (defence and home affairs) budgets, bringing the Defence and Home Affairs Budgets to historical highs of over $11.4 billion and $3 billion respectively. This is one of the real reasons (quietly though) why our past reserves have to be used for this year’s budget.
The Defence spendings tower above every other budgetary spendings. This, despite the gloomy outlook for the next 24 months or more. Money should be conserved (and channeled to fund more direct people-help programs, say, for retrenchment benefits). Some military spendings could surely be postponed or paced out until better days come back. It is not as though we are under-invested in defence. After years and decades of heavy military spendings, we have as of now already the most invested and equipped armed forces than the rest of ASEAN combined. That betrays the under-emphasis on real care and focus this govt has on people-related needs vs. growth and power.
Lim Swee Say , enough of the “Tirpartism” bullshit !
It is simply 3 parties sleeping together on the same bed.
And we know one dominant party is controlling the foreplay
And we also know one dominant party gets to enjoy the orgasm.
I carried out a survey in my blog. 66 people replied. The results are shown in
this blog:
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2009/01/give-your-views-on-budget-2009_29.html
Most respondents said that the budget is pro-business and is not helpful to workers, to save jobs, to help the unemployed to cope and to revive the economy.
The most pessimistics are the older and the unemployed/ retired respondents.
It is easy for a government leader to give their own views, but they will be surprised to hear the views of the ordinary people, as expressed in an independent survey.
14) Tan Kin Lian
It is not surprising that the people like us feel that the budget is pro-business and not helpful to workers. The budget is supposed to address the financial problems that the companies are facing so as to reduce job losses. It is an indirect help to the workers. In fact those that have not lost their jobs and not suffered pay cuts should be still fine for now; those that are being axed are the ones that really need help. I hope the government do not spend money on a blanket type help (beyond the income tax cuts or measures already in place) for workers but spend the money on those that lost their jobs or suffered pay cuts and cannot make ends meet. This will mean more targeted and meaningful help to reduce possible social fallout. Anyone of us could fall into that category in the two years.
Having said that, I feel that the budget even though hailed as pro-business is not effective enough to stop most MNCs from leaving and companies from massive retrenchments. I think more need to be done by our Division One Ministers.
Govt is over protecting businesses but i doubt the Credit money will help them much. If they want to chop they will as how much can 12% do?
I believe the govt will have no choice but to put some cash on the hands of the jobless.
This may come in MAy or June period subject to conditions.
They have no other choices.
Oh believe you me, they DO have choices, and these choices do not include you or me.
I donche relly mind if companies move out of here.
Why? No one OWEs no one a living right? so the saying goes?
These companies have the right to protect their own interests.
Everyone protects their own interests.
If companies here have to pay and pay the cpf, which is good for citizens and PRs, they jialat lor. expensive wor. even tv got people said citizens pay expensib wor. CPF is a substantial component to business cost.
If I were MNC here, for the sake of profitability so as to sustain in the long run, I would not hesistate to exercise my rights to retrench, if necessary. And hire cheaper but same or better skills FT who do not require CPF.
To be fair, CPF is important to locals now. The herd has already relied too much on CPF. This is irreversible in the short and mid term as people pay and pay their homes using it. And people have to ensure min sum that is likely to increase as they age closer to their retirement. I wonder how this sacred cow (year of cow) would become by the time we retire?
So, though sounding harsh, if I am a boss, be it local company, local MNC , SME or foreign MNC, for PROFIT, I would retrench as long as it is necessary and would do so at my free will, as long as it is last resort where last resort i still no no the definition where I wonder can last = 1st where I only have 1 resort? not bali resort.
In short, I feel uncompetitive compared to same skill FT due to CPF. But then this is just me. I am uneducated.
Cai Yuan Goon Goon.
12) SIMPLE on January 30th, 2009 12.00 pm
But why worry? they all all from PAP, the best party in town and some say the world.
So, they all work hand in hand with employees in mind.
So much sacrifice! oh my lord!
The defence budget is high because we buy a lot of expensive equipment and employs expensive generals.
Also, defence is supported by many GLCs so indirectly the increase budget feeds them.
However, we need to figure out a way of moving the GLCs away from defence so that we can reduce defence expenditure.
Same for home affairs. Surprising when we see the number of screws up in the ministry. Where did the money go?
Have you looked at the uniforms of the officers at ICA and probably the police post? They looked so worn out.
Make you wonder if all the money went to the bosses?
Chartered Semiconductor announce retrenchment today of 600.
Why Temesek Company always lead the way in retrenchment, DBS, CSM, still
got what to follows. Hope NTUC don’t retrenched.
God Bless!
Hi may i know how does the help package works?
1) the company claim one lump sum from gov….they pocket the money…and then still retrench can?
2) the company claim one lump sum from gov…they give abit and keep the rest…wait 3 months later then retrench can?
3) the company claim one lump sum from gov…but their employees dun know they claim…still kena retrench can?
any rules and regulations governing this help package that the company must comply?
(22) radlife66
(1) Payouts only in Mar, June, Sept and Dec; the 12% of the wage (cap at $2500) will be reimbursed to companies for the wages that they have already paid out. It is not really a lump sum but money already spent by the coys. The amount coys get in Mar are for the wage credits for salary from Jan – Mar.
(2) Since it is wage credit is for the wages already spend by the companies, your question on keep abit and keep the rest, I think is not relevant.
(3) If you are a Singaporean or a PR, your company sure get the wage credit (no need to dun know).
If the savings from the wage credit is not sufficient to meet business objectives, the coys will have to retrench. I do not think you have to worry abt bad bosses trying to capitalise on this wage credit and then still retrench people. The credit helps but I fear many companies cannot wait for every 3 months for reimbursement like Chartered Semicon today retrench 600…can’t even wait three months because 100% of wages need to be paid for 3 months before you get the 12% back. So if you are the boss, will you save 100% X 3 or try to earn the 12% X 3 at the end of 3 months?
This is the same Lim Swee Say, self-styled “UNION LEADER’ who said the following:
“Every month when I get my CPF statement, I feel so rich….”
So out of touch, so insensitive and now yet talking about “tripartism”??
I just feel like *&^%$#* his face!
And nor forgetting, the same Lim Swee Say, self-styled “UNION LEADER”, also said:
Our slogan is ‘upturn the downturn’.”
22) Lightning Strikes Again on January 30th, 2009 5.52 pm
Not sure if employer CPF for PRs is lesser than for citizens?
If so, given the same entitlement for J.Credits, I wonder how and i wonder why
, like the lemon tree, would companies prefer PRs over citizens given the lower cost in terms of CPF they have to pay?
I just curious only. I harmless one.
“(For) some union leaders (and) some companies under stress, under heat, the heat bonds them together…”
When both people fight, it must mean that both hate one another. However, the more both fight, the more both love one another. How can you ever get wrong in any statement. Head you win, tail I lose.
New lesson learned. More stress + under heat = more bonding. Must thank this once in a lifetime crisis to present us with this peculiar bonding opportunity which has escaped us all this while.
(25) kilimanjaro
Haha my lightning don’t really burn or bond people lah… it is not the same lightning in the PAP logo which can be use to bond people.
I guess there is quite a big percentage of work force who are PRs and the intent of this scheme is to help businesses cut costs. so it is applicable to PRs. CPF for PRs are the same as Citizens and pay expectations are mostly the same too so no preference from an Employer point of view. However for Work Permits or Special Pass workers, it is not compulsory to pay employer CPF, but they also do not get the J.credit.
If Government Company like DBS and Chartered can lead the ways of
retrenchments in Singapore.
What does want to send the messages to MNCs in Singapore!
More good yearly!
Swiss standardize!
Lets move on!
And thats the way in digital age.
Could someone tell me , how does anyone really know how many exactly are or were retrenched? Just based on the news can already? WHATEVER the News says i just take it as fact is it? can someone advise advise please.
Also, how does one really know how many are working ?
I want to know for example, if its reported 3 percent unemployment rate. What figure is this based on?
thankyou you.
Are SMEs required to declare to the statisticians when they retrench?
Do the figures include foreign workers laid off? Such as Bangladeshi and Chinese workers illegally / “legally” kidnapped and deported.
What about contract workers whose contracts have not been renewed? Or part-timers who have not found work since the crisis.
Or old folks, past retirement age, who lost their jobs though they still need an income? Are they counted as non-active workers too?
Does anyone actually imagine MOM or NTUC is so gook-lak to find out about all these people who have fallen through the gaps?
Maybe instead of unemployment figures, which is so challenging to compile, EMPLOYMENT figures based on number of active CPF contributors should be given.
Hi Jason,
Your suggestion of calculation of unemployed is good.
But who will do this for us?
I hope TOC will help us VOICE UP at HLPark on such thingies and many other statistics , how to know for sure the figures are correct and how to interprete them. I am sure many in singapore have no clue.
Eg. 1. How many forms the working population? What is considered a working person? part time? free lance? sometime work sometime no work? jobless with ACCRA registered sole proprietary with no business activities? working but not declared? SEE!!! how to know for sure???? I challenge everyone!
2. how many citizens migrated last year alone ?
3. how many China borns are now in our midst? exactly how many?
4. how many PRs exactly based on last month’s cutoff date?
5. how many investments are still in TOXIC products?
6. how many people do not have the money but are living in HDB they bought through loans from banks or HDB? why no money to buy a flat?
7. how many are jobless now? from these, how many were retrenched?
8. what happen to previous years surpluses?
its a long list and I cut it short for now.
need to add to point 1:
Is a person who works freelance sometimes gets CPF but not all the time considered to be part of working population?
Singapore’s Resilience Package 20.5 billion Singapore dollar (US$13.7 billion) to stimulate the economy.
But the Resilience Package falls billions short of Singapore’s total investments in the troubled banking giants, Citigroup and UBS.
Bloomberg now reports: Singapore’s state-owned funds invested about US$24 billion in UBS, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch in the past 14 months.
It’s right that governments are focusing on recapitalization in the West and they’re trying their best to incentivize new lending,” Shanmugaratnam said. “It’s too early to say how successful this will be. Governments have to take more risk, and that means taxpayers have to be willing to foot part of the bill
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=acqMQGW7LECQ&refer=asia
The Resilience Package adds up to just about 57 percent of the total investments in UBS, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch.
Singapore invested more in the three foreign banks than it has to stimulate its own economy ??
6) status quo on January 30th, 2009 9.45 am Lim said :
“To keep unemployment low, the labour movement has made four commitments – it wants to be the most pro-business economy in the world, the most pro-worker nation in the world, and have the most united tripartite relationship, with a most caring labour movement. ”
This is all crap=shit=bullshit, retrenchment as a last last resort, all crap. One Big Bullshit
Unemployment is going up 101% …Company cannot just keep workers on payroll to do nothing and just enjoy the space… workers cheaper to go first to save the Company.
some union leaders (and) some companies under stress, under heat, the heat bonds them together…
…and the workers are screwed? thanks to union leaders who act in the interest of their bosses and not the interest of workers
We should thank our million dollar minister who is also the labour chief, to fight for workers rights. Many will respect him if he can donate half of his pay to those who are retrench, but unfortunately he wears 2 hats, and talk differently in different occasion
Did PM Lee’s mismanage singapore economy?
Job Credit is to save jobs or bailout of GIC and temasek?
PAP said they have A division team , yet the leadership come up with a plan to drew money from national reserves! why? they have best of the best, MBAs and doctorates , yet they come up with a plan that any man on the street can think of , that is to use the national reserve?
a bad solution?
DBS dont deserved the Job Cerdit, because they have already layoff 500 workers,
yet DBS keep a very sick CEO , who going on a 6 months MC at DBS’s salary?
healthy workers layoff and a DBS CEO sucking money off DBS pay roll? make no sense?? why ??
PAP always talk about creating great number of jobs and alot of retraining layoff workers . why the sudden change?
the ability to create jobs and retraining are all lies, when really need to use ?is unable to perform?
In a gobal recession, job loses is expected.We could also loose a few ministerial posts without suffering any ill effect. The money saved could be used to help those unemployed. Of cause this is wishful thinking. SinKapore is not ruled for the benefit of its citizen but those in power. When are we going to get wise to it?. Minister said one thing and do another. Tigthen our belts for hard time while they get fat bank account growing fatter by the month.This recession really is God sent to wake up SinKaporean that the time for change is now and if we suffered siliently through this recession, the PAP regime will think we are moron and will take anything they throw at us. This is a good time to fight for our right to have a decend living and stop the nonsense of importing FT/FW. If we don’t, then we might have enpower them to do more nasty thing later on. The right to a decend life is not asking too much is it? When are we going to stand up and demand what is rightfully ours? Remenber No venture No Gain.