About 100 people, young and old, attended the Singapore Democratic Party organized forum “Opposition – Where to?”.
This is a dangerous world because people are not doing anything about the evils in this world. With that in mind, Mr Tan Kian Lin decided to speak at the forum. Mr Tan observed the growing gap between the government and the people. This may result in the opposition – or Alternative Parties (Mr Tan’s prefereed term) – benefiting from protest votes. But the Alternative Parties are not able to attract middle ground voters because they are not able to offer good candidates, alternative policies and ultimately an alternative government.
Understanding that Alternative Parties have limited resources to do much, Mr Tan suggested they focused on educating people about their roles, responsibilities, and rights as citizen and be considerate and caring towards each other.
He suggested that the Alternative Parties make use of blogs and the Internet to communicate actively their parties’ values and alternative policies to the public.
Read Mr Tan’s speech here.
Here are videos of his speech:
– Educate people their role, responsibilities and rights –
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– Alternative Parties unite with common values –
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HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
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My Salute to Dr TKL!
I was once holding indiffernt attitude toward social and political issues that affect us. When I started using the internet to search for answers, I began to READ people’s opinions and views and remarks about issues. This freed me from the well. I learnt that there are many views that are logical. To sound fair and unbiased, I would say that the MSM at times may not have sufficient space or time to show all opinions. Having learnt this, I began to use the internet more. For example, when minimum sum was introduced, I learnt even more from blogs and forums. I could even pose questions to clarify my doubts. min sum concept is important as it affects all of us. Other things like COE, ERP etc also can be learnt online.
But there are some questions which we may not find the answers. That is why we need more MPs to help pose the question ‘live’ in the parl. They must press on to help us understand certain things.
I appreciate the effort contributed by our NMPs SKH and Sylvia as well as the esteemed leader Mr LTK. Although they also may not have the answers, asking them is the 1st step towards enlightenment. More importantly, the people must know what is going on. As said, sometimes, people too busy may just flip or scan briefly through the papers and miss or did not fully analyse certain issues.
This where internet can come in.
There are many experts all over singapore and working abroad. they all can access the internet REALTime and provide their indepth analysis , views and personal opinions. These, I am sure is hard to find in MSM due to the constraints, although there are some approved letters to the forum that show some people’s comments and opions. But the internet is superior as it offers and allows infinite views to be seen and read.
once again, my sincere thanks to TKL for contributing to the Eradication of Apathy in singapore. Lets all chip in to help in this direction.
May there be light……at the end of the tunnel. ;)
The governments around the world have gone for change.
Even our neighbour ,after so many years of domination by National Front has woken up.
Talks of LDP in japan being trounced in the upcoming election (which Aso is delaying) could be the ultimate sign that ppl are tired of monopoly politics.
However, i do not see this happening in SG unless the recession lasts a few years, then ppl may wake up from a deep slumber. It is cruel, but it may take something bad to get singaporeans to realise their beloved party is no longer the same party that make singapore prosperous.
A friend of mine works in a singapore company, if u know what i mean.
We chit chatted over coffee one fine weekend.
we could chat everything under the sun except
when i asked him what is your view on the TC investment in toxic products.
He told me, he is not at liberty to comment. Even in private and in public place where no one was near to eavesdrop.
This proved something.
I wonder, in the eyes of mautre democracies like Australia, TW, USA, S.Korea , even Malaysia or even Communist country like China (correct me if wrong), what would they feel is wrong or not wrong?
I also cannot express too clearly. as u can see.
If the Alternative Parties “are not able to offer good candidates, alternative policies and ultimately an alternative government”, then they have become irrelevant.
Their role is certainly NOT in “educating people about their roles, responsibilities, and rights as citizen and be considerate and caring towards each other” as suggested by Mr Tan Kin Lian. The people have the responsibility to get themselves educated.
The main reasons for the continued political dominance of one party are:
(1) The general lack of political talent in Singapore.
(2) An insufficiently-educated population.
I personally feel that EDUCATION is indeed something very urgently required when you compare the mentality, characteristics of a singaporean to mature democracies like even Thailand.
Humans are all the same in fundamental ways.
The Environment in which they are cultured, nurtured distinguish themselves. Their mentality.
This means , people’s mentality can be changed.
To make it very clear, put a Singaporean (a baby born in singapore) to grow up in TW, hey presto! you get a different mentality. I asked a friend in private how he felt about TC investment, he said, he dare not comment.
8/2/09
77% Singaporeans are Tech savy and long been using the Internet for news instead of depending on the mainstream papers, and we don’t need the SDP and Tan Kian Lian to tell us what to do (we are not Bodoh). This seminar is a mockery and a slap on our faces.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
8/2/09
We as Singaporeans must always put Singapore above all things and this Seminar clearly shows one thing, SDP and TKL put themselve above Singapore and her citizens ie Singaporeans, and they tell us to use the Internet for independent and third party news and forgetting that Singapore has the most advance and high Tech Internet in Asia besides Japan, Seoul, Hongkong, Taiwan and China.
Let us take a good look in Perak, Malaysia where the Pakatan Rakyat state government collapsed because of a lady state assembly woman who did not get a Camry car where her fellow assemblymen got a new Camry car and she sold herself to UMNO for this (forget about the two other Pakatan Rakyat assemlymen who crossed over as they have been charged in court for corruption). This lady is very selfish and put herself above Pakatan Rakyat and Perak and look at Perak now in turmoil. This must never happen in Modern Singapore as Singapore is too small and fragile, and I strongly deplore Dr Chee and his gang in SDP recent call for Civil Disobedience in Singapore and his call has failed. Dr Chee and his gang are traitors and are betraying Singapore and selling themselves to foreign NGOs for monies and inshort Running Dogs.Singapore is much bigger than Dr Chee and his gang of Running Dogs. Singapore needs a far better Oppostion than Dr Chee and his gang of Running Dogs. I am all out for a good and constructive Opposition to take on the PAP in the next General Election and let us continue to pray that we have a Singapore Anwar Ibrahim and not a Singapore Obama who now after becoming President USA and is saying things are not going to be easy (before when he was a Democrat Presidential candidate, everything no problem).
Regards
Andrew Chuah
No one disagrees the gap between ppl and gahmen should be bridged – the question is how can this task be intelligently accomplished? That is the question.
Education is good. But if you take it too far, it may slip into indoctrination. So I remain very skeptical abt sustainability in this approach.
Getting political parties on line also seems like a good idea; but the danger there is it may politicise the internet further and force netizens to black and white quadrants where they only think and react along partisan lines. This is not good either, if the imperative is to seed deeper understanding.
What I think the gahmen may need to do is seriously develop core competencies in understanding the internet; so far, their strategy speaks of no strategy; that is a clue, they have may have been so complacent as to even underestimate the internet; otherwise why cant they scale threats, opportunities, strengths and weaknesses accurately? So it does not surprise me in the least the quality of the decision making is poor at best and the execution worthless.
Unless they begin to buy into the idea blogosphere is NOT so different from a sovereign country; with its own set of hegemony, raison and ethos; then they will never ever see the wisdom of engaging it intelligently by a corps that are not so different from professional diplomats who are adept in conducting trade offs and cost benefit calculations to forge alliances and partnerships.
That is really the problem; when you dont even have ANY idea what you are up against; 9 out of 10, when you move forward; you will be encircled; when you push too deep; your supply lines cannot keep up and that is why time and time again; they keep going up against hardpoints where all they seem to do is get caught up in rat warfare. It is a great diffusion of energy all amounting to a greater nothing.
Watching this is very painful to many of us; as some of us even consider this a form of insanity. My fear is at some point; we would all reach a cut off point when we may even be compelled to consider the theoretical possibility; we MAY be dealing with irrational people, who ONLY wish to see the world as they believe it to be instead of what, it actually is.
That is really our main fear.
SD (Internet liaison officer of the brotherhood)
“we MAY be dealing with irrational people, who ONLY wish to see the world as they believe it to be instead of what, it actually is.”
in that case, no ONE is rational including the ONLY talent that matters. lol
Singaporedad,
I am shocked by your statement,
“Watching this is very painful to many of us; as some of us even consider this a form of insanity. My fear is at some point; we would all reach a cut off point when we may even be compelled to consider the theoretical possibility; we MAY be dealing with irrational people, who ONLY wish to see the world as they believe it to be instead of what, it actually is.”
Let me say this. I do admit readily our govt may be out of step with the times, but to suggest for one moment they are irrational is really quiet bizarre SD.
As for Liu’s statement. I think it should be viewed in the right context. If we can all express outrage at how the burmese govt once shot at innocent monks. Then why is it so unusual that someone in govt merely highlights the obvious moral shortcomings in our net when it came to the muted response of SHT? It seems SD you like very much to promote your pov at the expense of the govt at every avaliable opportunity, but since it came from you. I am shocked and sadden as this is certainly not the response I would have expected from the liaison officer! Who incidentally is supposed to be a gentlemen.
PHT
why get mad with only sd Polly? Seems like everyone here is saying basically the same thing. But why single him out? Maybe you all hate him?
“As for Liu’s statement. I think it should be viewed in the right context. If we can all express outrage at how the burmese govt once shot at innocent monks.”
I wonder why people in WW2 kill Chinese informers working for Japanese to earn a good living. Isn’t the informer need a living too, and it is the right thing to do to survive and lead good life ? HHmmm.. well, such argument make sense as long as the informer doesn’t betray me, my family and my friend.
Those Chinese informers should have worked as translators instead, that way a few decades later they might be guarding reserves
Good Afternoon Polli
Since you brought up the issue of context; then may I ask what is ANY reasonable person supposed to draw from all this? When On 5 February 2009, the Zaobao published a full page editorial carrying statements from a police inspector to investigate netizens spreading baseless and unfounded rumors concerning Ah Ong and Ah Seng?
Remember you were the one who brought up the issue of contextual accuracy; so I am sure you don’t mind; if I simply frame Liu’s statement along side this development to focus on the salient (as you seem to conveniently elide it wholesale). I believe this is pertinent; whether that was by designe or incidentally is irrelevant the key point here is Liu’s statement cannot reasonably stand in isolation. It must be coupled to this other statement.
So this naturally leads us to consider: whether this was a rational statement? It gives me no pleasure to say this Polli; but even we CANNOT fathom what is the primary or secondary objective here; as the cumulative effect of all this noise will have zero effect in soliciting higher levels of trust and understanding between netizens and gahmen.
On the contrary we are likely to see a significant escalation in the levels of conflicts, as some netizens will just dig in and take up defensive positions; what we are likely to see is a moderate classical Richardson arms race online; where some netizens may even take a more aggressive line – what I wonder does all this accomplish?
We do NOT understand. Even our best planners are bewildered. Even we don’t dare to go around making veil threats in the virtual and we are just gamers who squabble over fictitious minerals in planets which only exist in the imagination; we remain mindful we live in a world of implications and consequences; so why doesn’t a gahmen minister even feel the need to do that?
Logic I am afraid doesn’t seem to be able to supply a cogent explanation; but irrationality along with the opium pipe and hallucinogens certainly does fill up the blanks, it seems.
You will have to decide yourself. We have already made a decision. And we will have to act on it. That will be all.
SD
#6)
>77% Singaporeans are Tech savy and long been using the Internet for news instead of depending on the mainstream papers, and we don’t need the SDP and Tan Kian Lian to tell us what to do (we are not Bodoh). This seminar is a mockery and a slap on our faces.
So… where did you get the 77% from? If you can throw numbers about like that, I assume you can back them up. Considering that I’m the unofficial “IT support” for my colleagues in my company as well as a couple of other partner companies, I would say that knowing how to turn on the computer, but not knowing how to do simple things like copy and paste = tech savvy. And if they don’t know how to copy and paste, will they know how to use the internet for news? Don’t make me laugh.
#7)
>We as Singaporeans must always put Singapore above all things and this Seminar clearly shows one thing, SDP and TKL put themselve above Singapore and her citizens ie Singaporeans, and they tell us to use the Internet for independent and third party news and forgetting that Singapore has the most advance and high Tech Internet in Asia besides Japan, Seoul, Hongkong, Taiwan and China.
Exactly how does using the internet for independent and third party news equate to SDP and TKL putting themselves above Singapore and Singaporeans? It’s only a sensible call so that people don’t get brainwashed by the government controlled media. And hey, if our media were actually free, maybe we could spare the time and effort from looking for alternative source of information.
>Dr Chee and his gang are traitors and are betraying Singapore and selling themselves to foreign NGOs for monies and inshort Running Dogs.Singapore is much bigger than Dr Chee and his gang of Running Dogs. Singapore needs a far better Oppostion than Dr Chee and his gang of Running Dogs.
Show me the proof and I’ll stop supporting them. Otherwise, you’re just spouting off lies in the hopes of gulling the gullible.
To Andrew Chuah,
You are in the wrong column, jokers do better in the cartoon section.
Sei-ji rakugaki would appreciate your contributions for his sketch book.
I think what you have to say may be worth a few laughs lah !
6) Andrew Chuah on February 8th, 2009 10.14 am 8/2/09
“77% Singaporeans are Tech savy and long been using the Internet for news …”
================
That is what info you may have gotten from the press?
Yes, I agree with you that the internet is part of most singaporeans’ lives already.
But! this need not mean most of these are not apathetic.
I personally feel that it is apathy by choice.
Oxymoronic? maybe.
What is choice?
Does it have to be influenced ?
Does it not have to be influenced?
get my drift?
as said my friend dare not comment even in private about TC investment citing nature of his job.
Believe me, this bloke of mine WATCHES a lot of Flickr and Youtube, if u know what i mean.
Internet savvy people could also be internet couch potatoes, virtual gamers, ‘sensual’ web fans, online shopper-holics.
Thus my point is clear. Being internet savvy does not mean a person is not Apathetic. The internet is just a tool. Like a iPhone. All types use it.
Even for News, people are selective at it. Most do not feel they have the time to read all sorts even if useful like social blogs or current affairs blogs. Why? most could not find time. Maybe poor time management?
And then there is the Culture thing. Who would characterise singaporeans as people who are not Apathetic (I dunno what is the term for this)? Would foreigners be surprised if you say singaporeans are very vocal about social issues? Some might say singapore is young. But I say that is relative. 40 – 50 years is a long time, to me, to mature. If I am not wrong, TW is also a nation that is not too old.
So, i believe with experience which requires initiative and courage, culture can change. And CHANGE can happen. IF….
I digress:
memorable quotes:
While Ronald said “Tear down this wall”.
and
Obama said “Yes! We Can!”
I prefer “Change is the only Constant” :P
While I respect all views.
I still would say this to those who keep blasting others.
1. We are not the people involved. We are at best by standers who may not know everything about what REALLY happened. For this fact alone, we should not be blasting people when we are at most 3rd parties. We do not know the TRUTH.
Best to keep an open mind.
2. when everyone behaves like those who blast based on believe that so and so activist is how bad or lousy or un credible, we must ask ourselves, what is the basis for our impression on them? Is it based on the TRUTH and whole Truth and nothing But the Truth? If not, for our own self respect, we should keep an open mind and SEEK more truth than to be a victim of our own ignorance or lack of open mind.
Time to get out of the Well and Shell.
Peace.
Logic I am afraid doesn’t seem to be able to supply a cogent explanation; but irrationality along with the opium pipe and hallucinogens certainly does fill up the blanks, it seems.
You will have to decide yourself. We have already made a decision. And we will have to act on it. That will be all.
Another piece of self righteous and self aggrandoisement crap from you. Do us a favour : get you and your sorry band of Brotherhood somewhere else!
Please take this constructively. I mean well.
To Ramesh,
You are very right. Everyone should adopt an open mind.
However, if a system is lack of openess and transparency, one continues your definitions of open mind is simply dreaming and living in fantasies.
Time to wake up, with open eyes.
Andrew Chuah wrote: <>
This is the typical argument a PAP supporter would use.
Don’t blame the PAP government for the way it behaves and the manner Singaporeans are treated. The people have only themselves to blame for giving the PAP almost absolute control of parliament.
With so many Andrew Chuahs, Singapore would be in the hands of the PAP for many years to come. The Perak lawmaker may be selfish, but the Andrew Chuahs are really silly and gullible.
aiyoyo
hope TKL can help serve the commoners in the next elect
aiyoyo
“1. We are not the people involved. We are at best by standers who may not know everything about what REALLY happened. For this fact alone, we should not be blasting people when we are at most 3rd parties. We do not know the TRUTH.
Best to keep an open mind.”
Yes, you do not know the TRUTH. So provide us with the TRUTH (transparency and openess) so that there won’t be wild speculations based on joining dots that are only visible. Dots that are invisible cannot be joined as no one is able to see it.
“If not, for our own self respect, we should keep an open mind and SEEK more truth than to be a victim of our own ignorance or lack of open mind.”
Of course, you will be ignorant if you are being kept in the dark while another bright picture may be painted for you to see.
Ramesh, a lot of people here know the concept / dark process of ignorance so do not make it sound as though netizens whom you may disagree are second-rated species and that they are clueless on what they are doing.
Someone used the term running dog..
Well history has it that one leader was the running dog of the Japanese although the official text called it working for the Japanese. Later becoming the running dog of the British. For being the British running dog he was rewarded power and position. Today he is the running dog of China and American financial institutions.
The moral of the story is collaboration, you call it being a running dog. Well running dogs win races, barking dogs achieve nothing.
Don’t know if you guys notice this fellow who hides between his two legs and calling himself ‘To:’.
He offers nothing but have a lot to say about what others are saying. He targets those whose views do not fit his. I have never seen a worse coward than this.
We can either continue to eat our cake with a moldy core and moan about it or we cut out the moldy center. In the worst situation we’ll just bake ourselves a new one. It should not be a situation where we are forced to eat the moldy cake.
Oh btw; you guys can continue your discourse.
I had a good time sharing my views and hearing the views of so many. What a lesson it has been. All thanks to TOC.
Henceforth, I shall seek my news craving elsewhere. Perhaps I will pop in from time to time but don’t count on it. TOC has shifted its position too much from when I first participated in it. I cannot continue with the current shift.
Thanks anyway. I have benefited tremendously.
The world is made up of 5 different colored races and within each colored race it is subdivided into many different races. Therefore it is natural and healthy to have different kind of people with different views, opinion and culture. If our world only have one view, one opinion and one culture, what do you think the world will be like. There will be no progress, no technological advancement , no evolution of civilisation and no war (not very likely, even brothers fight among each other because of greed). So we may have a mono-faceted disease in the long run, this apply to Singapore political arena. The one party government year after year with no one to highlight its weakness and failings because eveyone in the government thinks the same all time and they are blind-folded to other better alteranatives that are not their own.
If Singapore want to progress for the next 20 to 50 years, Singaporeans need to change this status quo in all fields especially political.economic and spiritual fields. We must embrace all parties, all views , all systems, all religions, all talents, all skills, all races to build a multi-faceted society that can only go ahead with its own dynamism.
If a political party uses all bureacratic structure physical or virtual to serve their own ends to stay in power for a long, long time, the end result is the society is heading towards a drought in spontaneous, passionate, altruistic and talented political leaders. They end up appointing half-hearted scholars and technocrats into their fold and most of the time they are beholden to the great one who appoint them and their creativity and cloud are stifled and clouded by the great one. Therefore, progress for the common good also take a back sit as shown in the current budget where they stubbornly stick to their philosophy against direct social assistance to the unemployment during this depressing time. This actually created insecurity among the people whether retrenched or not retrenched. When there is insecurity, people will not spend or take risk.
So we need alternative political views to hammer this out instead of same old clique hammer themselves till they bleed with no new breakthrough in solutions.
“He offers nothing but have a lot to say about what others are saying. He targets those whose views do not fit his. I have never seen a worse coward than this.”
I have noticed. So what can we do about this nagging coward. Yes, I find him quite irritating.
Gemani, how many times have you been targeted by him.
Hi Ah Gu,
Just to let you know that I have posted a reply in appreciation for concurring with my views. Unfortunately, all my postings have gone into moderation today. I shall not post any more comments . Good day.
“24) Dog on February 9th, 2009 1.05 pm
The moral of the story is collaboration, you call it being a running dog. Well running dogs win races, barking dogs achieve nothing.”
Wow man, good lesson from you. Surely must learn from you on this new definition.
Perhaps, you may want introduce this new term to our Foreign Affairs service and our SAF and get some consultancy fees from them. I did not know that the word “running dog” could be made to sound so positive, what a top-notch scholarly spin. May I know which leader you are referring to.
9/2/09
To the Writer who posted *21, please read my posting *32.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
9/2/09
To The Moderator-This is worse than than Mainstream media censorship. TOC must walk the talk and there must not be any censoship.
Regards
Andrew Chuah
Hi Andrew,
The quote was “…Singapore is too small and fragile…”.
I don’t think TOC deliberately censored it. It might have been an honest mistake. The quote was enclosed within two sharp brackets.
regards.
“To The Moderator-This is worse than than Mainstream media censorship. TOC must walk the talk and there must not be any censoship.”
Why should TOC do that my friend. The Mainstream has so many years of headstart dictating the rules of usage even though it belongs to the public at large.
Let TOC even out these many years of headstart first and we shall start afresh ok. Please bear in mind, TOC is only a single site in the net and people freely come and go. Why should you be so concerned.
12/2/09
To the Writer who posted *36-please at least use a name or intial (I noticed that you have been writing nameless-afraid being picked up by the Authorities).
Regards
Andrew Chuah
Tan Kin Lian if you stand for next election, we will vote for you!
SDP is champion of “political unity”? I doubt so!!! See http://www.notmysdp.blogspot.com for different perspective.
Fang ZY
Just like to comment about Dr TKL’s view that people are not apathetic based on the turnout at HLP for the minibom issue.
The turnout is STILL a strong minority of 10% of the affected!!!!
Its a big issue afterall. People’s entire life savings. ERP issue, TC issue are all smaller issues compared to that. Although these are / were (people forget) hot issues.
Why is it people generally fear talking about social issues when talking to colleagues or friends outside or in private ? China nationals dare to talk about many many thingies.
Apathy is the no. 1 problem on my list.
Imagine if just 50% wakes up from apathy to being interested in social issues.
Would we have seen 5000 turned up?
Wonder what you people feel about this?
Is opposition unity important or not? Where is WP’s leadership or they are planning to go it alone?
For Andrew Chuah:
“A most insidious form of fear is that which masquerades as common sense or even wisdom, condemning as foolish, reckless, insignificant or futile the small, daily acts of courage which help to preserve man’s self-respect and inherent human dignity.”
Aung San Suu Kyi
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