Hahaha…Be cool brother ….pls dun get so uncomfortable.
For a start ,I had stated and bracketed clearly that I dun mean 4.5b is peanut,foreseeing that some people may misunderstood me or use that only point to attack me.I am a poor man with low status and definitely may never in my life have a chance to see that amount in my posssession.

I had agreed in 92) that when companies need to retrench ,they will have to.
The scheme is not out there to tell business not to retrench.Got it?
Should you have any further queries or want to understand more ,go contact our FM who is in a better position to tell you better.
I am not one of them but is just someone seeing its benefit to the older workers and supported it .
Spending the 4.5b on our people for a good cause is well spent , Its worthwhile.Actually I dun take it as investment.
Pls suggest a better solution to help our elderly and low paying workers than to argue for the purpose of arguing .I know why certain people argue and are not in favour of it but revealing it here may not be appropriate.

Unless you can recommend me someone better than Ah Huay,no point wasting time telling me how bad or unproductive she is ,or talk as if there are many Jacqueline or Cynthia out there waiting to meet me ..I cannot wait leow.

Tell you ,given a chance to be richer by 4.5 b or to loose Ah Huay,I will choose to be with my Ah Huay .She can help us when we are in need and is definately worth more than 4.5b.Dun try to snatch her away pls..

woa, so i guess you haven read the latest news right? how JCS DIDN’t manage to help those 500+ getting retrenched from chartered. So what does that tell you about JCS saving job and helping employer when a semi-gov company actually retrench?

“4.5b is just a small percentage compare to that many billions that had already been invested elsewhere.”

woa, so are you warren buffet? you must be a multi-billionaire to be willing to throw away 4,5b in an investment that may not justify it. even the sage himself won’t do something like that. Yes, it may be a small amount compared to other economic giant, and we should use it, but in a way that’s more effective rather then on JCS, just like what so many people have said over here.

we are not asking the gahmen not to help the people, we are asking them to help people in a more effective way. with that, your hypothesis of linking marriage and this trying out of JCS is indeed illogical as the magnitude of the repercussion for JCS failure is way higher then the marriage failure. You don’t invest a huge amt of money in something that you know will have low return and have high risk. can you think of a better and more concrete elaboration? i don’t want to sound mean, but your case with Ah Huay, hell, you can go for artificial-insemination or other method to produce that child that you want. however if JCS is tested for a whim to hope that it works, 4.5b that can be use in a better way is totally wasted.

According to (no.93)neversaydie’s calculation ,the payout may even be very much lesser than 4.5b.

This is my first time that I sense its an investment worth promoting to help workers .Why go against?Becos it dun benefit me?Personel or politically reason?Why doubt their sincerity?Or shall I say,we are rich and only think of ourselves and not others?

Can you and me help our friends or neighbours by lending them monies or provide the jobless food and jobs at these time?If cannot then why must we deprive them a chance to survive?I think you haven’t understand the objective behind this scheme.

How can we prove that it will not work if we dun go ahead with it?

TOC,Pls allow me to share my Ah Huay’s story here.Don’t delete hor.

Seow Ah Huay and myself falls in love .We want to get married.I know that that is my only chance to find a wife.Becos of my gong gong look , my low salary and my cleaner/dish washer or sookoority guard status,I know not many will be interested to marry me.My rich friends can only tease me and tell me and my father that Ah Huay is ugly with small body,maybe cannot produce result.,will not have a happy marriage etc.They hope my father can stop me from marrying my lovely Ah Huay.
My friends are enjoying their more than 2.5 K monthly salary and not worry of retrenchment becos they know they are indispensable .They can go Karaoke and sing many songs but I have to hide in my toilet to sing Ai Pia Chia Ay Yeah and Sim Su Sia Larng Chai .They can only talk and make me wait and wait for them to recommend me a Secretary Jacquerine or Purshasing officer Cynthia but they never appear.
So must I wait for bogus Jacquerine or Cynthia and neglect my innocent Ah Huay when she is willing to help me to produce result. Sure I must marry her because only then I can know whether she can produce result.
If my Ah Huay cannot produce result,at least she can help me by not having to think of loitering around the lorongs in Geylang..This itself is already a result.
By the time my friend’s Jacquerine or Cynthia appear which I doubt they will ,I would have been a lonely old dying Ah Pek and will not be productive anymore.

Honestly speaking lah,the 4.5 b reserve dun belong to u and me.It started many donkeys years back.Our forefather ,the coolies,samsui women ,hawkers,workers ,jagas and everyone had contributed to it in one way or another but how many of them really know there is such a thing as reserve.
This is a time to distribute it to those in need,not directly but in JCS scheme ,so that they all can tight over.
If they phrase it like :employers’s CPF share to reduce by 9 %.BUT GARMEN HELP EMPLOYEES by topping up 9 % .Do some of us as employee here still question the 4.5b?They did not phrase it in this way becos by doing so the purpose will not be met.

and
102)Ms Jeanie Bulbus
Of course I am not asking people to any how grab one and get married.
But how to know whether we can produce baby or not if we dun marry.
Or shall we not marry becos we are doubtful whether we can produce baby?
Of course AH Huay is better unless you can recommended me someone .
But too late now cos I cannot let my Ah Huay down,who is willing to take the risk with me and help me.
Dun consider too much to get married.In the end hey,heh,heh,u sure will regret.
You will see my Ah Huay’s productivity and result only after 1 year.

Mr Gong,
is there a proof of concept that it works?
yes or no?
if not why spend?

Do you get married first and then think about whether you are suitable for one another or do you seriously consider before getting married?

“Questioning JCS effectiveness is like questioning our chilld’s coming marriage.
They need to get married first in order to tell whether the marriage will work well or whether can produce grandchildren.You cannot simply tell your children not to get married becos you doubt his future spouse’s effectiveness.”

Well in the case of JCS, if it fails, then 4.5 billion is gone. in the case of the marriage, a divorce can be the solution if it gets out of hand but you won’t be missing the 4.5 billion that can be put to a better use. that’s why we have to question it since there is so much money involve, to ensure that a scheme that involve so much money is optimum and not let it implement and see whether it works cos by the time. let’s say i ask you to invest money, will you want to invest in something that’s not effective and wait for the result with the chanhce of losing your hard earn saving? your analogy of the marriage VS JCS is very illogical

does that answer your question well enough.

I am an ord singaporean with no political background. From what I see, I would like to know, as an ord singaporean, how has Mr Low’s queries been answered?

From I think, Singapore needs more voices to question the majority’s decision. Especially in these difficult times, we need more people with different opinions from the majority to keep the majority’s decisions in check.

If the majority came up with the policy, the same majority would of course support their own decision.

Therefore, singaporeans who are talented should join the minority to ensure that there are at least some people left to questions the majority.

In this discussion, there is only one minority questioning the majority. Singaporeans, imagine there are no minority in this discussion, what will the discussion be? So many people bombing one person. What happen if this person is no longer around? There will be no one left to question the majority. Also what if this one person could not react in time to all the people bombling question? It may sent a false signal to the uneducated that the minority have nothing to say to the majority’s decision.

I born and breed in Singapore. I am a Singaporean and I love my country. I just want the best for my country.

You know what is worst ? Those governing clowns think that IR and Casino are panacea to all the lost amount of public money !

I suppose the 4.5b is just a budget and just like the way you have calculated,so much better if they can settle it with only 0.45 b or even lesser.The remainder can be use for other scheme ,
Whether the numbers were made to sound big to impress people as usual or possible to hide some other accounting manoevres etc is not much of a concern .
My concern is to see that our locals are more attractive than foreigners in term of job applications.,especially during these times.
If JCS can make our employer prefering to take in local workers more than to a foreign one,then I will say it works.
Passing the monies to the employees directly in vouchers will not make the employee more attractive and thus ,is not relevant in this scheme.The objective for JCS is different.
This is a moment to look into how to help our singaporean to be attractive,to stay employed ,whether employers or employees.Personal and political interest should be put aside.Helping employers is also helping employees.

So what if it benefits profitable companies that has got no intention to retrench workers.So long as there are any staff resigning,they will have to get a replacement and this time will prefer to get a local than a foreigner so as to enjoy the scheme.If they do not get someone to replace then there will be no benefit to them .This itself is already effective enough.
Or maybe we can take it that the profitable companies being paid JCS are our neighbour who just strile the HongBao toto draws.Be happy for him and there is no necessity to be jealous.

Questioning JCS effectiveness is like questioning our chilld’s coming marriage.
They need to get married first in order to tell whether the marriage will work well or whether can produce grandchildren.You cannot simply tell your children not to get married becos you doubt his future spouse’s effectiveness.

Oops….Ay…why am I talking like somebody…Sorry …My apology to all…

So,after spending so much time on this subject,please start paying,Pls dun wait till end March to show our effectiveness…My boss is waiting…..
Shh…tell you secretly .My boss faces some difficulty paying his own CPF medisave so I think this time ROC will not let him renew his business licence.He wonder this time CPF will let him pay by GIRO instalment or whether JCS can pay him advance first.He ask me whether the Garmen will tolong ….so pls dun delay the JCS…….tolong tolong….

I would like to comfom that JCS does not go to Public Sector? So many thousands of employees there.

I believe it will be spent on every company there is regardless of sector.

so , i juz like to comfom comfom a bit.

If my understanding is correct, I hope companies that are still surviving donate this to the more needy like those they retrenched already or simply only issue JC to companies who can prove they are gonna retrench and need help. So, more can be given to companies that need help more than the JC amount in order for them to keep workers. As understood, SMEs cost structure is different than large companies and to treat all companies the same is not as targetted or precise medicine as I would have hoped for.

In short, spend on the real cases and cut waste is prudent. If this can be done competently, I am sure the JCS would achieve more effect.

I urge companies not in the red to step forward and say they would like to pass the JC to be received to other companies (non competitors and suppliers or contractors).

Or Interest-free loans of $300 per month should be granted to unemployed persons for a period of 6 months at least.

To agongkia:

The reason why I think it won’t cost 4 billions for the following reasons:

the scheme supposedly targets the low income.

But this segment is most vulnerable now because many of the companies they are working in are shifting out of Singapore. (JCS is supposed to benefit private sectors) due to pressure from China and India.

Since these companies will retrench, the JCS doesn’t benefit them at all until they find the next job.Still, that would take time and they would probably have to dip into their savings.

So, these groups of people will end up not using the JCS funds as much as targetted.

Therefore JCS will end up dispensing less cash. Therefore costing less. But the numbers were made to sound big to impress people as usual and possible to hide some other accounting manoeuvres.

I sympathise with your views but the truth is the insecurity didn’t come from not having the scheme, it comes from not having the right policies, especially manpower and industrial policies.

Remember PAP will definitely recoup the money back and can you take the cost increases later on?

Why can’t we just pass the monies to the employees directly in vouchers like Tan KL suggested? Why would that have a smaller multiplier effect than the JCS?

Remember the JCS was not given any KPIs and never explained why it would work produce the maximum bang for the buck when the ministers haven’t heard other schemes from other independent sources. They are also saying indirectly that their ideas are the most exhaustive and the best.

You think so too? Why are they rushing us? Isn’t that how they lose a lot of monies with the citibank/UBS/etc investments? You know, we probably won’t know of these losses had it not been that they announced their investments in those entities with such fanfare that the stock market crashed, it became apparent that they screwed up big time undeniably.

Passing the monies to the bosses (given our high exchange rate and the fact that these people don’t need the money) incentivise them to invest elsewhere in the world and not in Singapore thereby letting us miss opportunities indirectly. why not? just keep the extra monies in foreign currencies or invest in UK properties to make things simple.

If you read Ngiam’s (ex perm sec) comment, you would see that the macro problem is that our productivity lags behind salary increases and they are using this JCS thingy to first ensure the HDB loans can be serviced while employment cost goes down. However, the source of the productivity is due to the massive immigration that happened the last few years. We are simply not attracting the right crowd and we had no say but pay the social costs.

Read this https://www.citigroupgeo.com/pdf/SAP23758.pdf

So, the govt is using our reserve to solve a mistake they made and later making us pay back through higher minimum sums and medisave account increases and lower interest rates in those accounts, not to add, all the GST increase subsequently etc.

Remember we actually saved enough from the current electoral cycle to fund the JCS programme etc but it was never explained to us why didn’t we just use it and give more due concern to the use of the reserve.

The real question to ask is

- how do we get into this sh*t? we are supposedly a rich country with high saving rates? Even the Taiwanese who had the corrupted Chen for 8 years, have a lot more monies than us when they retire.

I don’t know about you but I think the fundamental problem I think is the way they operated – post lehman’s failure events just expose their ineptitude. They didn’t know think this recession will last long but now, they think it will. (over a period of 2 to 3 months)

I am all for the use of the reserve but it must benefit Singaporeans first. We have no privileges and a lot of obligations. Remember, we slog hard to save it and worst, we probably have to work harder to pay it back – don’t you think so given the PAP style of governance. Also, us spending such monies benefit the other people living and working in Singapore through ripple effect. right?

They say in HK, appearance is important but I think Singapore today is all about appearance more than ever. Yes, certain schemes seemingly give more monies than some of the scheme that the opposition proposes but the problem is those who are supposed to use it doesn’t knows about. so the funds just end up sitting there with the appearance of satisfying needs better. I think JCS is the same thing. JCS end up benefit the wrong group of people to the mockery of the honest folks who just apply themselves and didn’t dare to ask. (which you must agree, there are many such people).

That’s why I support LTK’s view: we need to know or at least sure that the reserves are spent in an effective way to benefit Singaporeans. Have you asked yourself why a low risk pension fund such as GIC invest such a large amount/percentage of the fund size into foreign banks? Even the mainland leaders think it is a lousy idea after they invested. We haven’t heard anything learning from our leaders yet?

Also, to LTK’s credit and TOC’s credit, that there are other savings we can make with the ministerial pay and the allocation to mindef in the current budget.

If you notice the answers or questions thrown by the PAP MPs, they cannot prove why JCS will be effective since they cannot reply to LTK’s questions. JCS looks as if it would work just like the casinos look like a sure win investment. (at best) Have you ever thought how the mainland leaders would react knowing that the casinos are targeted at their people? They already ban people from going to Macaw’s casinos… What about the US policies makers when they know we hold such a large stake in their banks? Does it surprise you that they crack citibank up?

I was wondering how come we didn’t think about reducing our exchange rate.

That would deter us from consuming overseas.

Of course, it will make us less attractive to foreign workers but it will make us more interesting to foreign investors, or at least discourage current investors from pulling out?

Just my point of view. Most important thing is that we Singaporeans prosper both materially and spiritually. Any good ideas are welcome.

We supposedly have a great education system and not every one works for the government, surely there are other good ideas around? right?

Also, the supposedly most capitalistic country in the world is looking into excessive management pay in their companies and we have no plans looking into that? funny right? They have had it so good for so many years with their education generally financed by the State, isn’t it fair to give back a lot in a show of solidarity when it doesn’t hurt their lifestyle at all?

I don’t know about you… I am sick of being held hostage all the time and I don’t think the current policies are working.

JCS to me will benefit the low salaried workers ,the elderly citizen,the lowly educated .It gives them a higher chance to secure a job than the foreigner.I mingle more with those in the lower income group and I see thing more differently.
Most of us here are literate and can express their views here.But the view does not represent the kopikias’,cleaners’,wiremen etc etc whose ricebowl may be at stake anytime .They are only hoping for a job that is secure.I don’t understand why are we questioning its effectiveness?Becos it profit towkay and we not towkay?Becos our company staff all earn more than 2.5K per month?Or our company have less local workers?

Its 1:35am in the morning with work tomorrow at 9am, I am listening to his debate.

Well done, keep it up!

if any of you got chance to be MP to ask a question,
I hope you ask the 80+ people there,
who knows exactly about the Reserve.
why? becos i no no wor, I interested wor.
if this question cannot be asked, someone tell me genterly wor.

The Minister of Finance’s silence to the questions posed by our opposition MP is a clear demonstration that LTK’s comments on the budget’s inconsistencies are correct.

The ministers didn’t lose 20% of their pay – at most 1%.

No lah, they have to set aside the present reserve to be used to pay for their $million salaries or else, these elites will start corruption if they are not well fed.

Let me suggest what an appropriate response to LTK should be if they really are more anxious about the downturn than their party politics:

1. Explain to LTK how his concerns are being or have been taken care of. Now, if the PAP MPs are not privy to their bosses thinking than they should not be criticising him but instead ACKNOWLEDGE LTK’s concerns and hope WITH him that the Finance Minister WILL address/explain them satisfactorily when he speak.

2. Explain to LTK and all present, why they feel that it is the best way to go about it instead of just attacking him which betrays a ‘tribal’ response than one of somebody who has ‘cerebalised’ the govt’s proposal and agrees to them based on some individual rational reasoning on thier part. But, unfortunately, the way they had responded shows an antagonism against ANY criticism or skepticism however well placed or well meaning by anyone. In doing so they showed themselves to be more as loyal party members but not the people’s rep in parliament which this situation requires.