The following is the personal view of the writer. It is not a TOC opinion or position.
Andrew Loh
I’ve just attended the seminar at the Institute of Policy Studies (IPS). It was held at the National University of Singapore Law Faculty. Titled, “Getting their hands dirty: Recent developments in Singapore’s political blogosphere”, the seminar was well-attended. (A report of the event will be up soon on TOC.)
One of the talking points of the seminar was the survivability of blogs which are run like online newspapers, such as TOC. It’s an issue we here at TOC have been discussing for a while now. How do we fund what we do? And indeed, what is it that we are doing?
In a nutshell, what are we?
Are we activists? Or just a bunch of bloggers? Or are we a hybrid of both – what I would term “blogivists”? At the moment, perhaps we are both – or are perceived to be so. This is where the issue is – to be both requires an amount of resources, in manpower, funds, time and effort. This therefore goes to the heart of survivability – if we are to continue to be what TOC is.
But before we even consider the issue of surviving, perhaps we should ask if it is worthwhile to do what we do, and to continue to do so. Many have asked me about the goal of TOC. “Are you aiming to be the alternative news media in Singapore?” is a popular one. Indeed, some already see us as such. My answer has always been, “No. We are not a news website. Neither do we aim to be an alternative to the mainstream media.” The reason is very simple: We do not have the resources (funding, professionalism, manpower, etc ) – now or in the foreseeable future. Another question is this: “Is it your aim to be the Number One socio-political blog in Singapore?” My answer: No. There is no desire for us to be Number One, or Two, or Three or whatever. We are not in competition with anyone, honestly. I do hope that there will be more good blogs, however. Blogs and bloggers who can write and express themselves better than us.
For us at TOC, we are Singaporeans who have something to say. Period.
Is it worthwhile then to put in so much effort just to say something? Yes, it is. Because if you cannot say what you feel, then I think the country would be the worse for it. And that is the starting point for us at TOC – we do what we do because we want and know that Singapore can be better. It is our home, after all.
But the question comes full circle here – the question of survivability. If Singapore is our home and we feel it is important for us to speak up, then we must consider the long term presence of TOC. Of course, individual members of TOC can, if TOC is wound up, still express themselves in their own personal, individual blogs. Would that be less effective? Maybe but look at Alex Au. He’s one of the best bloggers around and people listen to what he says. It is the substance that matters in the long term and we can learn much from Alex. Not least his stamina. He’s been around for more than 10 years!
Having said that, it is heartening to see all the folks at TOC coming together as a team. Indeed, I am still amazed at how this has all happened. In the last two years, we must have met or communicated with at least 100 like-minded people, with about 60 to 70 of them having written or helped TOC in one way or another.
It hasn’t been an easy ride. Many a time our reporters, writers, videographers and editors have had to work through the night and sacrifice their personal time. An example would be the migrant workers week we did where we spent days and nights visiting and speaking to the workers and the people from NGOs like HOME and TWC2. At times, we were personally outraged at what we saw and heard but had to retain objectivity. It was an experience of learning as we went along.
Zheng Xi has been a really great chief and has been instrumental for a large part of what TOC is. Many times he too had to work through the night on stories we are covering. Terence too is wonderful in his dedication. As are Boris, Sze Hian, Deborah, Roderick, Mervin, Jing Wei, Yina, and so many others, including those who work behind the scenes and are hardly known – and everyone who takes the time to visit our site and read what we create.
And for this alone, the dedication and contribution of so many, it is imperative for the editors of TOC to find a way for TOC to continue.
We started out as just a blog but we may have become something a little more than this. As Zheng Xi, our chief, once told me (I paraphrase him): There is a responsibility to our readers and to those who have supported us these last two years.
I feel the same.
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Hi Andrew,
You have touched on a very relevant point. For TOC to survive (My favourite website), money is a key resource. Cash to sustain the website, to reimburse traveling fees of journalists and reasonable allowances to editors are important considerations.
While TOC can consider donations, I think there is a need for a consistent flow of income. I have no idea of how to do that, but we can open the floor for good ideas.
Alex
Just here to express my appreciations.
You(all) at TOC are doing a great job!
Sincerely from: patriot
What is the point that you are driving at?
I think and predict that blogs like TOC will fade away..mainly because of lack of funding. Unless your get a generous donor (and why should he donate?) the on-line advertising market is not big for its survival. You guys running the blogs got to earn a living as well, i think. And not only that the discussion groups in mainstream media like ChannelNewsAsia Discussion is gathering more momentum ..so where got hope??
The point is that you will soon see advertisements on TOC.
The Online Citizen has done a great job for civil society in Singapore.
You could start a donation. I save about $720 per year not buying the Straits Times and the Lianhe Zaobao. I sure won’t mind donating to the TOC where I can get objective news and the real feel of the Singapore society.
The Straits Times is good only if you’re applying for a job or finding out which shop is on sale.
Thanks for feeding my mental hunger for alternative thoughts. Keep it up. You are needed in Singapore, for Singapore and for Singaporeans.
I’d just like to add that I’ve been especially impressed by the quality of commentary on TOC — not just from the writers, who have done a wonderful job in addressing both topical and long-standing issues, but also from the men and women who comment on the posts. My honours dissertation is drawing from the everyday discourses I find on TOC — a testament, I hope, to the expression and imaginitivity of the Singaporeans who have ventured into the medium to find an arena to voice their beliefs and opinions.
I have great confidence in the survivability of the TOC. While Andrew may not claim its place as an alternative MEDIA, it is a crucial alternative MEDIUM, and I hope it will continue to carve out its space in the political landscape.
Great work from the writers for bringing to light the things that are happening in Singapore. I just love the authenticity of the stories that is made possible only with the Internet. Authenticity on the Internet is something that newspapers can NEVER match no matter how much they try.
It’s great to see so many self motivated Singaporeans spending effort on the stories.
On a side note, I have to ask the same question as #3 Civic Adocator, “What is the point that you are driving at?”
If you sell TOC to Bill Gates etc , it will be like hotmail or hardware zone earning
millions of dollar!
This is the best decent unofficial site in singapore so far.
Thanks for the hard work!
I agree TOC has done a fantastic job so far in telling us the untold stories which we would never get to hear from our MSM. You have proven that there is so much more talent out there among Singaporeans then what our elites make us out to believe.
Lesser mortals now have an avenue to vent our opinions and frustrations and I’m sure you have definitely caught the attention of our elites. In fact I think our elites are just wasting money on their feedback unit when there is already a good one here.
If you guys are short of money, i think most of your readers would be willing to support with donations and help find sponsors/advertisers if need be.
But if you guys are thinking of stopping the blog, then I think it would be a great shame indeed. Our elites of course would definitely feel otherwise.
#5 – if the point is to ask for money, then there is no need to be shy about it or to beat around the bush. Just ask!
See http://civicadvocator.net/purpose/make-a-donation/
Hi guys,
What’s the point to this article? To be honest, I am not sure. It’s just a reflection on TOC’s future – after attending the seminar. They are some thoughts I had while in the bus on the way back.
I appreciate and thank everyone who offers words of support to the TOC team.
Are we closing down? Hell, no! :)
Civic advocator,
Thanks! :)
Gd work Andrew adn all those who supported the cause.
i have attended several meetings with the TOC team and never went away not feeling energised and motviated to do something for the country.
In fact, I attributed a large portion of what i am now doing to the influence of TOC – it’s zeal and vision.
Many have commented that TOC is a political site and i always say “So what?”
We always need alternatives and TOC has provided a decent place to interact and communicate safely.
TOc I believe also need funding for the full time writers to survive and also for them to live decently. I will decide with my unemployment support team whether to donate a portion of our funds if any to TOC as a way of helping out this great site.
I can only see TOC going on to great heights unless the authorities decide to close it down.
Good work again Andrew and Zheng Xi…you have done yourself proud and Singapore thank you for your great sacrifice.
has the alternatives put in their best ultimate effort yet?
what is the REALITY of alternativity?
#16, much has been said about the lack of impact which the Internet has had on electoral politics so far (James Gomez has written extensively on this, as has Garry Rodan). It might be argued that there has been no real impact until the political opposition has gained a real foothold, but given the real obstacles to electoral politics in Singapore, I believe that alternative discourses in themselves are crucial. The reality of alternative political discourse so far has manifested in the activism of Tan Kin Liang, of the NTU students, of the TOC reaching out to the streets, etc. KJ’s articles on Total Defence reinforce the importance of questioning government rhetoric. There may still be no alternative at the polls, but I think its been made clear that there is space beyond government-defined parameters.
I have enjoyed the various articles, from people with diverse background and views, all in one place, it is a place worth visiting and efforts of TOC people must be commended.
It is quite another thing to see pressure builds up whenever critical comments are made, particularly in this “new media”. Review who you are, what you are doing, etc etc, questioning motives, …
Simply put, what is wrong with some like minded people expressing their thoughts? Why must everything be tinted with this ‘p’ word? Why must the’p’ word be monopolised by a small group of people?
It is time we reconsider how we as a nation develops into this state.
Dear Mr Andrew Loh,
It is good that TOC is now taking stock of itself and re-examining its raison d’etre.
Is it a site for news, for political activism, for blogging, or merely an outlet for the ventilation of frustrations? Should there be a certain goal or a direction to follow?
I would rather it remain the way it is – undefined and free to be whatever it evolves into. It should be an all-inclusive website that welcomes all view-points. Out of this noise and disorder, something valuable will emerge.
But the important thing is the PROCESS. Yes, the process of social and political development and maturation of Singaporean society. That is the raison d’etre of TOC.
The TOC team is doing a very good job! Keep it up!
I envision the TOC as a Grand Central Station of quality blogs, a hub and clearing house of good quality blogs, a giant portal to host and feed channels/links to other blogs…be like a server..the fertile ground where the new political battle is waged – not REACH not any govt -controlled site. Here is where logical ideas, good ideas, practical ideas, strategies get their airings w/o censorship, where even eventually the next generation of political leaders may be cultivated and grown. Let a hundred flowers bloom, and the hearts of men contend…
Viva la TOC!
TOCzens and newbies who post here must strive to keep up the standard and quality of their posts so that TOC will gain more respect and stature as a credible and reputable FIRST STOP for serious seekers of Truth, and the Opposing views in Singapore politics, for visitors who want to feel the Real pulse of local politics not discoverable in the staid and sterile MSM.
I have read many forummers, some are soo highly analysied skill either on S’pore economics , Transport, Immigrations Dept..etc..
I sincerely hope those ideas/ can pass to the Opposition party ,,I think some these good stuff – Need to put to action !!!
I guess Opposition (parties ) also need new Blood / helpers to build up strong
to MAKE A stand for the people of S’pore….
Ok,you guys ‘! Think about it!@
I support TOC’s cause but I share same sentiments as mrthinktalk in post (4). Somehow I see signs of Think Centre emerging in TOC.
TC, if we all recall, started brightly sometime in 2000 (or 1999?) – and subsequently the likes of Gomez and Ah Yaw went into politics.
Remember how TC gave speeches at Hong Lim? But now?
I hope TOC wont end up the same fate. (with an extra O, I hope TOC will be different from TC) :)
TOC has been doing well, and the fact that a TODAY reporter tried to solicit views for her articles via TOC speaks volumes of TOC’s success.
Keep up the good work and God bless you.
Andrew, keep it going, many are reading TOC and some even homepaged it.
Truth is, I found this place through talking cock and wayang party, and I liked it here ever since. Not that I don’t go to the other two anymore, but yea the topics that’re brought up are usually based on facts and allows many readers here to comment and give their views freely. There’re often small debates of sorts when it comes to political stuffs, and the minor misfits that throws out senseless remarks are often put in their place quickly. The moderators are doing their jobs pretty quickly, though I don’t know if they were using protocols or what not.
I’ve enjoyed my time reading here (during my working hours), and it’s kind of becoming one of the rare few places I visit often to entertain myself on the many comments and also to voice out my own opinions freely.
From the looks of things, I doubt this committee is going down any time soon, and if we keep it up, this could very well be the rare few places where the government has no choice but to keep watch constantly to collect people’s views and ideas for the country.
The Government portal is definitely not working very well, for sure. Actually I had no clue what that is and didn’t really care since they probably had strict rules of sort, and I can guess that not many people would want to be there straight under the government eyes.
So TOC, keep up the good work, and I’ll very well continue to stick to this place and perhaps one day help indirectly when I have more power and age.
A serious re-think will be required if funding is an option to be seriously considered. This is because if TOC is indeed perceived by the MSM to be a political website, any donations or funding will be subject to scrutiny.
The challenges that I can think off-hand are:
(1) How to maintain neutrality while expressing views that are alternative to those in the MSM and yet, not be perceived as political.
(2) Transparency and accountability of funding and its uses since the donations are ‘public money’. Who is going to ensure that?
(3) With funding coming into a picture, does it mean TOC needs to be registered?
Having said that, I’ve always enjoyed the articles on this blog. Makes me look at issues from a different perspective. Well done!
“TOc I believe also need funding for the full time writers to survive and also for them to live decently. I will decide with my unemployment support team whether to donate a portion of our funds if any to TOC as a way of helping out this great site.”
Here, I agree with Gilbert Goh. Funding is necessary for TOC to survive.
For the kind of positive work that TOC is bringing to the table. I do not mind making donations in whatever small way I can. Make the donation drive official and transparent. Iron out everything with our so-called law first.
I worry that TOC may be merged……ooopps, dare not say any more….
No point in saying ad nauseam Keep up the Good work. Basically one needs money to run TOC. Though it is getting better and more credible (i see less insults and more positiveness now) it will close because of money not enough. You see that MSM reporters are asking for views from here so that they can improve their discussions boards and main stream news items. MSM is wising up and they make easier to join the discussion groups with minimal moderations..but the gov discussion requires you to give a host of particulars before you can post….Understand some gov depts like MDA are giving funding for new media projects..How about TOC approach MDA for funding?
Dear Andrew,
Like many , I have stumbled into TOC some 10 months ago now. I was actually quite impressed with the candidness of the comments in most articles published albeit some may be regarded as out-of-line and have no relation to articles published for discourse. Recently, I detected changes to the “ground rules” of TOC, moderation frequencies seemed to have increased for unknown reasons (may be it is just my experience). I have also realized some of my old cyber friends had altogether stopped posting comments which I jolly well knew is of their concerns. I too have written to TOC to express my discontent on the moderation matters.
Regardless, on a whole, I think TOC had done well (as far as I had experienced). Even though at times I find some of the articles published dealt with very frivolous issues that I personally thought do not deserved to be published. But again, on the other hand, there has been a lack of quality contributors as echoed by TOC (due largely most contributors including the staff of TOC who does the moderating are all part timers and had a day job), so it is indeed a laudable effort that TOC deserves a standing ovation for a job well done.
Like many political and social issues published here or elsewhere, perception rules. Many may disagree, but think about it, we are all human beings and a majority of us do have our fixed values and believes (whether consciously or sub-consciously), so it is hard for many to take a serious view or participation in any other blog sphere who we perceived as non-neutral in their content published to hopefully engage visitors or for public discourse. A credible blog site will remain credible so long as they try to maintain a neutral view on issues regardless whether it is social or political. Simply put, reported as it is with as much known facts. Leave the judgment for readers and poster. I believe TOC is striving to do just that albeit it is no small task to keep up with it. Singapore is exactly a free-for-all to speak out nation. There are restrictions and constraints. These are elements that are beyond the control of TOC and other blog sphere, including the Mainstream local and foreign media. So I too would like to urge readers and posters to be more accommodating (including myself) if from time to time, comments posted were immediate moderated. There should not be caused for alarm and I do not think TOC is doing it deliberately onto any particular poster(s). Or TOC is converting to Pro-Government or as some had labeled TOC or majority of TOC readers and posters as Anti-establishment.
It will be a shame if for financial reasons that TOC may have to bit farewell. I believe, supporters of TOC will do its best to chip in if someday, somehow, this is proven to be the show stopper. Financial assistance can be done in the form of taking up personal Ad on TOC site or personal donation and so on (of course all within the legal framework that is allowed). I will be most willing to play a small part in making a contribution as a errant reader and poster to keep TOC in operation. Andrew, you know how to get in touch with me.
Last but not least, wishing all the best to TOC and all contributors of TOC, please continue the good work. Thank you for allowing me to learn from the many wisdom of readers and posters through the last 10 odd months that is hard to find elsewhere. It is indeed a great site to visit for concerned citizenry who want to really have a feel of the ground sentiment. Differing views whether in good humor or un-cultured arguments in any discourse makes every article published for discourse real. Over time, people will learn to be socially responsible for views expressed. Over regulations and restrictions will indeed create an invisible barricade for progressive growth in online discourse. A nation can only grow and progress far with the true voice of its citizenry being heard. It will be a scary thought if all we hear are rosy inputs. The world is not all beautiful, but again the world is not all ugly either. However, it is always a good virtue to put yourself in other’s shoes when you have the power to change things for the better and do not unto others where you do not unto yourself.
oops incase the moderation on my post #30 is lifted. Typo error in my previous post. It should read ” Singapore is not exactly a free-for-all to speak out nation”. My sincere apology.
Observer,
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long and supportive post. It’s much appreciated.
You are correct in your observation that recently moderation has been stepped up. I think I have explained this before but nonetheless, pls allow me to reiterate.
First and foremost, moderation is to allow serious commenters the space to engage the issues with fellow serious commenters. We have had trolls, and even threats from some commenters. Of course, we would not allow these to be posted. I do not think any website which hope for civil discourse would allow such either.
Recently, we had one who kept repeatedly posting his comments under many different articles, challenging us to moderate his comments. We also have some which threatened to discredit us in other Internet forums if we disallowed their comments. Also, some comments were about allegations made against specific public figures. As far as we can, we will email the person who post such comments to verify the truth. One recent one (just a few days ago) was a comment making specific alllegations against NTU and the people in there. We put the comment on moderation, emailed the poster but have not received any replies from him. Still other comments would promote their religions, sometimes disguised as comments about the article.
So you can see, it is not because we want to, but because we have to moderate.
The downside is that in the process of moderating, some genuine, sincere and civil comments get caught in the web. No pun intended. We wished this didn’t happen but there is little we can do about it. We ask for patience and understanding.
Rest assured that TOC does not intend to curb space for discourse. Why would we waste time to do so if it were not necessary? It is also our experience and observation that sites which allow a free-for-all comments section generally end up being discredited.
But all in all, I am glad and happy to see that most commenters here engage in civil discourse with one another. This is more meaningful.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
22) NORTHGATE2007 on March 5th, 2009 8.28 am
I have read many forummers, some are soo highly analysied skill either on S’pore economics , Transport, Immigrations Dept..etc..
AND THE RULING PARTY SAYS THERE ARE HARDLY ANY TALENTED PPL OUT THERE! WHAT A JOKE!
Whats done is done Andrew. It cannot be undone. Moving forward my hope for TOC is it will go on to be the premier site in SG. To be honest with you I actually miss some of the really intelligent and witty post that I used to derive delight in reading will someday return to grace toc again, characters like Gemami, SD aka liaison officer, red-man etc all added depth, color and maturity to this site. That’s all, I have to say.
Forgive and forget and lets all start again, I say.
peacemaker,
No one is permanently barred from TOC. It is not possible to do that. They are most welcome to continue to post – according to the rules which we all abide by.
“22) NORTHGATE2007 on March 5th, 2009 8.28 am
I have read many forummers, some are soo highly analysied skill either on S’pore economics , Transport, Immigrations Dept..etc..
I sincerely hope those ideas/ can pass to the Opposition party ,,I think some these good stuff – Need to put to action !!!”
Interesting. The better question is, why don’t the opposition invite or attract the smart guys online to join them?
why must good guys ‘join’ *them* (whoevever they are?)/ there’s this thing about singapore that makes things and people into being a means to an end that i find repulsive.
people and things (and what they are and do) in themselves can be good in themselves!
I feel that blog webmasters CAN have access to connection info about readers who post comments. So, this should be enoigh deterrent to for anyone to post any illegal comments right? So, we trust our webmasters. ;)
Dear Andrew,
Thank you for the reiteration. In the course of more stringent moderation (I can see the reasons and logic behind this effort), hopefully it will provide more meaningful and civil discourse for the serious minded.Nevertheless, I believe light hearted but equally concerned posters who are less articulate and with limited vocab in the English command and expression like myself with genuine sentiment to share over issues published that is of concerns or folks with a genuine sense of humor may felt a sense of deprivation of freedom of expression for the folks with lesser flare in writings. Sometimes, it is exactly that coarseness and less desire language used in their comments that brings out the uncensored genuine feelings that drives home the point in its raw sense. But of course as I have penned my comment previously regarding this, I do certainly respect the moderation rules set forth by the host of any blogs (not just at TOC), and have also tried to reason rationally and convince readers and posters that I came to befriend over this cyberspace to keep their cool and try to stay in line with subject matter when commenting. May be, over time, I really do hope people fully understand that Freedom of Expression and Speech do come with social responsibility and accountability. The complexity of human thoughts are just too intricate to contain and set in any hard and fast rules. Well, only time will tell.
Anyway, I sincerely thank you for taking time too to respond. Hopefully, I will get to read more insightful comments that genuinely reflects one’s thought less the packaging. I hope my missing cyber friends Patriot and Gemami will someday return to share their wisdom and perspective on articles that concerned the livelihood of common Singaporeans.
Sincerely,
Observer (SG-HK)
Andrew, i have no doubt that you and all the rest in TOC have done a terrific job.
Please keep it up.
Balance sheet considerations have to be considered, naturally, and this IMHO is something unavoidable, But please discuss among yourselves in TOC first, then throw the issues on the forum board and invite our output.
Rgds
Roderic, I do not think it is a secret that IP addresses are logged when readers post comments. This happens in all blogs, I believe, and not just on TOC. However, two things:
One: IP addresses can be “dynamic”. This means they change everytime the same commenter posts a comment.
Two: TOC has been around for more than two years. And in all that time, no one has complained or alleged that they have gotten into trouble for posting comments here.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
wkc,
Thank you. Yes, balance sheet considerations ( as you put it ) are important. We will be looking into it in our next editors’ meeting.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
andrew Discuss with ST or Today for Toc as an extension to
their business …..n independent editorial maybe……
41 Roderic
Monitoring is essential in every country. In the words of FBI
“By now it has become common knowledge that terorists,spies,hackers and dangerous criminals are increasingly using computers and computer
networks including the Internet to carry out their heinous acts..the FBI has responded by concentrating its efforts including technological efforts and resources to fight a broad array of Cyber-crimes”…so far all TOC postings do not fit into this category i think……
Thanks Andrew.. I needed this as well. :)
Quote; ” I hope my missing Cyber friends Patriot and Gemami will someday return to share their wisdom and perspective on articles that concerned the livelihood of common Singaporeans”, unquote.
He, the Patriot, dislikes and even hates National Service and projected no sense of belonging to this nation, if I do not read wrongly. The self proclaimed farmer boy seemed more suited to live an ascetic life, but he reiterated that he is an atheist many times, he smokes, gambles and drinks Guinness. He claimed he was burnt out with working life and stopped working at a young fifty plus of age. He posted at many social-political blogsites and consistently blamed the money-loving culture as though living a poor man’s life is the ideal philosophy. He does not seem to understand economy, entrepreneurership and success.
Patriot was vehement against the use of the English Language as the national language, he was disgusted with resettlements, all in all he displayed a chauvinistic and conservative characteristics. The substance and command of the English Language shown in his comments should be improved.
Sooner or later in this election year ( confirmation is clear when MM makes 3 public appearance in about a week & the fierce & defensive reply from his PPS on dialact ), the TOC will take the flak – there is no 2 way about it in this political landscape.
You will be asked to take a stand like catherine lim or shut up (or down) as the light touch means that they will be contact soon.
Stand for election or disappear , members of TOC – your vehicle like that of Mr Brown ( he survived last election mainly because of the double satire of amusement and clowning) are on the radar and a press of a button can be the pre-emptive strike on TOC.
Take Care guys. Good bye.