This is one of the best articles That I have read in years…Hope the million dollars salaried politician IS READING THIS.

This article really hit the nail right on the heads of our greedy politicians.

Our million dollars paid politician does not know the word “Enough”.
They always think they deserve more if not much more than the rest…..

Is this small country really suitable for really talented people?

Thank you TOC! Great article.
This was the remark from David Marshall,”Why the hell do they need to be paid so much?” He was refering to the politicians.
I was reflecting recently on Singapore. Where has the good life gone to, have we become rich? Or rather who has become “rich”? Infact we are worst off! When “things” get better it will be back to square one, they will start the increases again, and who benefits? With the IRs and what not how much can it benefit us, I guess not much directly.
Are we over paying the politicans? Yes. Are they greedy because of this, I don’t know man! Has our system created greed, yes to a great extend. Look at Temasek and GIC, the more money we long for when it is not our, the harder the fall or rather, deeper! As a friend say to me, they’re adminstrators and nothing more.
Keep up your good work TOC.

I think it is a great attempt by TOC to get the logic straight but I believe those people up there knew about this and they decided that it is better to pay themselves well since their pay is peg to those “talent”s.

There is no stopping them until we do it through the elections.

it is as simple as that.

Yup yup, this hits the bulls eye…however our dear MIW will be in denial and reject this

Actually our politicians are very talented you know? In putting themselves in power, staying in power and getting rich at the same time. Isn’t that what all politicians do? Ours are just really good at it, so they kind of deserve their high pay :p

Maybe when the PM says ‘talent’, he means talent at politics (and bullshit), not talent at running the country :D

Bearing in mind that that creates a very “good environment” influence our kids to go into gambling.

Investment bankers / banks = very talented risk managers (supposedly) = very highly compensated = the world is in deep deep deep shit shit shit = rescue plans to be funded by taxpayers some of whom may be very very untalented.

Very funny equation hoh. Talented plans by talented people in the end need the help from people who may include a significant portion of untalented people.

We don’t have to look far. Right here the quality and performance of the pap government since 1959 is a good illustration.
The first generation old guards took only a fraction of the pay the current pap leaders take but they deliver solid results to Singaporeans. Ask any older Singaporeans like your parents and your grandparents and they will tell you how the first generation of pap leaders have uplifted their lives.

Surely there is talent, how to instil fear in the people and profit from the people to lose it all to greedier foreign companies by the billions.

Classic example Mapletree Industrial at Toa Payoh North, (Temasek Owned) No tenant rebate and lessons on how to take from the poor and losing it in long term investment

… and they said “Greed is Good”.

Lets be practical. You may feel useful, make your contributions to your company, passion for your work…….maybe a lot s of love …but isnt money very important??
I bet it is..but it went out control. Years ago it used to be money is generated by economic activities…things were produced for the benefit of mankind..but someone cooked up derivatives and made money only for one kind…….

“I bet it is..but it went out control. Years ago it used to be money is generated by economic activities…things were produced for the benefit of mankind..but someone cooked up derivatives and made money only for one kind…….”

Money is of course important lah. ‘REAL’ economic activities which give ‘REAL’ value should be rewarded lah. Not ‘ARTIFICIAL” ecomomic activities which do not add ‘REAL’ value but actually is producing one ‘BIG EMPTY BUBBLE’ so big that economic resources have been wrongly allocated in the past based on false belief and a lot of people now having to make painful adjustment.

That someone who knew how to cook happened to be worshipped & rewarded by a lot of powerful talented people leh. The cooker has already cashed out at the expense of innocent bystanders who are made to pay lah.

With world highest pays given to talents,
I wonder what sort of amazing policies shall we see in the next 5 years given the circumstances?
anyone here retiring in 10 years?

MP Low suggested that Minister pay be linked to a multiple of thw lowest 20% of the working population. They laughed at him and said they were worth more than that. Now we know their real worth.

Okay, that explains the present lot of MPs and Ministers.

With the outstanding performance of GIC and Temasek….guess they were paid just like our Ministers. Period

Last comment..have they no shame…

I think greed is already embed into Mankind’s genes from the beginning, just like survival instincts. Money just amplifies greed. I somehow think greed would just cause human extinction in the so-not-distant future.
Don’t flame me for this, just my opinion though.

“MP Low suggested that Minister pay be linked to a multiple of thw lowest 20% of the working population. They laughed at him and said they were worth more than that. Now we know their real worth.”

Inflated ego has been made possible by inflated bubble.

I hope they can really table MP Low’s suggestion this time round for serious debate. Present economic reality has somehow proven that MP Low’s suggestion indeed has strong validity which merits serious consideration.

I hope they should not laugh anymore and ruminate seriously this time.

Good article. Can someone forward to our ministers to read?

By the author definition, is our PM the greediest politician on earth? Followed by MM & SM, then A-class ministers, and the redundant MPs who do nothing for the people.

MM LEE should READ the site @@!!!!! So,WHere is all the Talents Elites ,he has on the table??

pay and pay people 100million a month. See if citi share price will go up tomorrow to 50 USD again.

The new generation of meanisters are just taking the joyride from the previous hardworking bunch. Now no1 is rowing the boat, soon it would go down the waterfall.

To What talent lah ? Over stated talent ? What value creation lah ?

Great comment!

Good one TOC!

If we do a statistical correlation of the PAP government from say 1960 till now, do we see a positive correlation bewteen ministers’ pay and the performance of governance?

In terms of pure GDP (ie raw transaction data) – they are probably OK-ish but they cannot avoid recession, and in fact their policy caused this country to be the first in recession within this region as a result of current global financial problems.

In terms of social responsibility towards the less fortunate, we do see a negative correlation! Rich poor divide widens, and Lee HL at one stage had even said this discrimatory trend is desirable! We as a nation gets a raw deal from this government!

In terms of opening the political arena, again nothing has happened, the control and manipulative behaviour of PAP had ingrained the part into the government – realy undesirable. In fact, the increased wealth give these people more power to strengthen the state mechanism to further their political aims.

LKY reasoning:
I am talented. I am motivated by money.
So it stands that all talented people are motivated by money.

Frankly, how many Singaporeans need to reflect on this topic ourselves?

With due respect to you, and in acknowledgement of the exceptions, we’re not exactly the most selfless and talented people around.

Increasingly many elements of our economy – listed companies, REITs, wealth management, credit-card lfestyle etc – are modelled after the American system and motivation of greed.

Our elites think they have god-given rights to earn 200 times our salary. We too think we naturally deserve to pay our maids and foreign workers 1/20 of our salary and put them on beck and call for 24/7.

Singaporeans as a breed are greedy. Can we deny it?

#32 Ah Lian on March 6th, 2009 11.03 pm

> Singaporeans as a breed are greedy. Can we deny it?

Are the TOC founders paid to create and run this site? They are even asking now how to make this site viable in the long-run.

Are TWC2 who support “disposed” migrant workers well-paid like our talking-cock labour minister & his ministry?

I don’t think so. There are people who would do things based on passion. However Singapore being a urban economy, in most cases, people need some sustenance income before they can afford to pursue their passion.

Greed can extend beyond money… Symbolicly, those in position of power and control may be able to obtain services under its real value. when there are both money and the intangibles congregate… letting go would be most difficult

32) Ah Lian

Humans as a species are greedy, however we can really see the worse in local context

i have to be greedy in singapore because i need a lot of money to pay for an expensive pigeon hold.

I have to be greedy because i need money to pay for expensive medical bills for family and parents.

I have to be greedy because i know this gov of ours won’t save me when i am retrenched.

I have to be greedy because there’s so many foreigners in my country fighting against me for a job.

I have to be greedy because i am not talented enough to be an overpaid elite.

Sigh…how i wish i was not born in this country full of greedy elites and subjected to their greedy policies.

greed is the fuel for capitalism.

So how?

During budget debate to help the poor, expect parliament to be half empty and ministers half asleep. When there was good news about ministers salary hike, ministers were unusually attentive and parliament in full house. Do we not than derive what is the priority of such gesture: – to lead by greed or heart?

They must admit ex-Lehman Richard Fuld is also a talent who had drawn almost US500million from 2000 to 2007.
They should not deny ex-Merrill Lynch John Thain is also a talent who declared so many of his talents high bonus using the TARP monies.

Jackson Tai was paid handsomely as he was a talent, to lead DBS, and he ran away in 2007 at the smell of this financial crisis.

Ho Ching is a talent, too talented to be in Temasek that our Dhanabalan almost weeped about her departure. Needless to mention about under-paying someone who got her post based on her merit.

Today i even saw a bus-ads also put up …”Be a responsible Employer, reward base on merit”

Who dare to say no fairness?

“The truth is, money has nothing to do with talent in any field.”

Well said! Let’s put this down as Commandment No. 1 in our New Singapore Culture.

Money will attract some talents, hopefully they will not corrupt.

“高薪养廉’ – Hign salary to keep corruption away….

pop goes the govt’s dream bubbles.

“EveryBody Knows” but how can we know – only one chappie predicted this financial storm 2 years ago…….

the lyrics of leonard cohen echo on the minds…..

money is the root of all evils – at least this is a known saying…

but money to bring and retain some for strategic number gain and pre-emptive positioning cancels out immediately the paying for top talent theory…. it can only invite unhappiness, widening gap and ground swell to unexpected consequences soon

“高薪养廉’ – Unless you pay me million$, otherwise don’t blame me for corruption! As one of the tax payers who have no choice but to continue to feed these greedy politicians, I feel being blackmailed by the people whom we look upon as our dear leaders.

At the beginning of mankind, man hunt for food to stay alive. Man gather resources & build furniture & tools to make life more comfortable & convenient.

Mankind has evolved a great deal since then. They learnt that humankind benefit from being in a group. These groups give rise to tribes & countries.

Yesterday’s hunting, resource-gathering & building has turned into today’s working. You work for $ to buy food which keeps you alive & buy furniture & materials to make your life more comfortable & convenient.

Mankind’s way of living has always been evolving. From small, dispersed tribes to major countries. From hunting & resource-gathering to working for $ which can pay for the spoils.

At the same time, many new concepts have been invented or discovered by mankind, some good, some bad. Good ones include invention of electricity & refrigeration. They aid human’s convenience & comfort. Bad ones include the glorification of cigarettes in mid 20th century & definitely, the over-glorification of $ in modern society.

Modern society makes you believe that you always need more $ no matter what. It’s a product of social evolution. If you can see the over-glorification of $ in its true light, as a product of social evolution, you can choose not be trapped in society’s workings.

The government is just one of the bodies which is trapped in this illusion perpetuated by society that you always need more $. Why would you need so much $ for anyway? You are well-fed, you can afford all the conveniences & comfort in life.

Don’t get me wrong. Money is important in life. You need money to live, & definitely need some backup in the form of savings. But if one is well-fed & comfortable enough, one should get blinded into chasing more & more dollars. The blind desire is simply perpetuated by modern society. See it for what it really is!

Singapore, singaporeans and the PAP have all become morally bankrupt.

Good article. I also like to add that selected schools in Singapore are excellent breeding places to either cultivate this greed, or damage a child’s ego.
A child from a humble background, is made to look ‘out of place’ by his more well-off peers NOT by the latest house or car their family had bought, but by the manner these peer-classmates carry themselves with the house or car.

The next part is really my reflection (you are welcome to disagree, but I invite you to consider my line of thought).
In the early days, Singapore canvassed hard to bring in manufacturing facilities from mncs, while having smes at the background. The strategy had borned out well. I am not a fan of LKY. I also do not think he is scholar material, and do not agree with all policies he set, but I credit him for the economic stability these mncs brought. And then, we tried to grow the services industries of major professions (to me, this included the civil service), ………. nothing wrong, but the rate we tried to grow them (and I had been in a service industry too), outpaced the manufacturing piece by both productivity and rewards.
As a result, our cost base went higher and higher, till the manufacturing mncs were beginning to take notice. Of course, at the same time, you will normally hear of people moving from manufacturing to service industries, but not the other way round. One by one, these mncs migrated to China, India, Vietnam etc. Then even for many mncs which had not set foot here, they no longer put Singapore under consideration when looking for an Asia Pacific manufacturing headquarters.
I am sure we had more than just a few highly paid scholars as policy makers then, but we were slow or even ineffective in arresting the manufacturing exodus…. it is my view that manufacturing is the key engine of any economic growth. Once you have this service industry that outpaced the manufacturing one by rewards but not productivity and real economic values (i think both greed and ambitions are mixed here), and at the same time the manufacturing piece declines at a substantial rate, it’s a sure time-bomb formula.
The reason is because only manufacturing generates real products, and the rest are ‘parasitic industries’. In the same vein, this happened to US, and today, some even joked that the most prominent thing US is exporting is their greenback. I cannot be sure policy makers are still trying to revive manufacturing locally. Even if this were the case, it is hard to make a strong business case to prospective parties. At the end, policy makers may keep asking us not to jack up our cost bases, but the switching costs of external investments will remain high for them to come/ return to Singapore.

It attracts both greed and stupidity.

Our Malaysian and Indonesian neighbours must be laughing at us right now for letting “talented people” lose billions of dollars on paper! The funniest (or most painful) thing is that those “talented people” don’t know even how to cut loss.

Haiz…

Yes, great article.. hands up for Joshua Chiang… and TOC for putting the link to it

while its good idea to write such thingies,
i feel that its not wise write sweeping statement kinda article title.
allow me to explain.

1. its fundamentally flawed to say money DOES NOT Attract talent. The question is what kind of talent it attracts.

2. ‘it merely attracts greed’ : merely = only. that again is fundamentally flawed.

but message understooded. pardon me singlish. my englan not strong.

Paying high salaries are an insult to Singaporeans and also an insult to the ministers themselves.

Their justification is to “attract talent to stay in the government”. But methinks shouldn’t the desire to serve the country BE AN INTRINSIC (come from within) DESIRE? Shouldn’t one love the country so much, that one desires to make the country better?

So, if all the government can say is that paying big money will help retain talent, then we can all safely assume that the government DOES NOT WANT TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND NEEDS MONEY TO KEEP THEM THERE.

Thus, the article holds true. Money attracts greedy talent. Talent indeed, but greedy nonetheless.

What the government is saying as a “reason” to justify their exorbitant salaries is “We must be paid market rates (exorbitant salaries) for us extreme talented governors to stay in our positions to help you citizens.”

Would any citizen allow this? I dare to say, almost none of the citizens would allow this. & yet, there’s not a thing we could do to stop the government from keeping them in position & siphoning lots of money, much to our annoyance.

This shows the government has ABSOLUTE control over the country & its people. & as Carlito would say, “That’s not cool.”

Since I was a boy, from stories told by teachers in school and from books that I have read about human history, great people (National Heroes, Statesmen, Scientists, Musicians, Artists, Sages and Saints) have never equate their contribution – which very often sacrificing their own lives – to how much they are worth (money). When I began to understand things as a teenager in the early 50s , I was inspired by the then “men in white” who championed for our struggle to free from British Colonial rule and a beacon of the working class to free them from Capitalist exploitation and oppression. Those were the days with men “really in white” who scarificed the prime period of their lives and even risked their lives for a more equal and just soeciety. They included those many brave souls who were detained without trial under the ISA and imprisoned for most part of their useful lives, with their beloved families ruined and themselves gone into exile. 50 years went by and here we see today “men in white” talking about how much they should be paid their worth commercially (market rate) so as to lead a nation which has prospered economically but so much poorer in ’soul’ and humanity, a capitalist meritocracy far from the vision of the then “men rally in white” who wanted to build a more equal and just society.

#51 HUM on March 8th, 2009 9.12 am
1. its fundamentally flawed to say money DOES NOT Attract talent. The question is what kind of talent it attracts.

I agree with your post, as I am incline to take the view that people who are strongly motivated by money ie. minus that component, they will decline the job, are driven by the need for power, and the need to achieve over others.
Such people are focused solely on performance that benefits themself and their direct employer; often at the expense of the bigger community.
For these people, the wellbeing of others outside their exclusive circle are irrelevant.
This is an empirical fact from psychological researches.

Singapore is now a greedy society. Many Singaporeans are greedy. Why ? Because of the pap government greedy policies. They set the examples. They set the standard whereby everything is measured by the $. After 50 years of being ruled by a greedy iron-fist, those Singaporeans who are not greedy are a unique specie. Greed will destroy the whole Singapore society. The only people who can save it are the small unique number of greediless Singaporeans.

56) Harry, insatiable greed for money is a product of society evolution. It’s prevalent not just in Singapore, but in societies around the world. Human society has set the illusionary standard that wealth = success in life. Thus, mankind today blindly pursues money without even knowing their true reasons for doing it.

Does a person really need that much money? In the theory of yin-yang’s balance, when one man gets too rich, another man gets too poor due to unequal distribution.

What is the point of a governor whose role is to improve the lives of its citizens accumulating so much wealth despite being well-off enough already at the citizens’ expense?

The way to save humanity, especially dying ones due to poverty, is to dispel the illusions of blind greed & pursue for money caused by the evolution of society.

I have a feeling this will happen in a few centuries. In their time, people disagreed with Charles Darwin & Socrates. A few centuries later, humankind begins to see the light in their wisdom.

Quite obviously, I am blatantly wishing to be a great philosopher even if it’s after my death. I would rather lead a normal life now & be able to benefit mankind in the future even after my death with my philosophy than be rich & powerful now at the expense of others & be hated by mankind even after my death.

If I don’t have to pay over $200,000 for shelter (and yet still have to worry about it being reposessed anytime I’m unable to pay the exorbitant “maintenance fee” or when the managing body goes en-bloc happy), I think I would be quite happy with less money.

Money is just a means to get “stuff”. Some of those, like shelter, food, clothing, education, medical care, etc., are pretty much necessities. Can’t blame people for wanting more money when the price of these “stuff” are going inexorably up.

However, those who are already earning way more than enough to cover their basic needs (and have more than enough to last until the purchase of a coffin fall under the “need” category) should really know when enough is enough.

Paying over $200k (Average prices of flats have gone way higher than this) for shelter is absolutely ridiculous! Staying in a place with high cost of living is like a hunter in a war-torn land; it’s extremely hard for him to gather enough to feed himself & his family.

What’s so ironic is that this high difficulty in affording necessities is present even in a supposedly 1st world, developed country. A country’s success is not measured by a portion of its rich citizens, but by happiness & livelihood of all its citizens.

“Singapore is now a greedy society. Many Singaporeans are greedy. Why ? Because of the pap government greedy policies. They set the examples.”

hehehe, people learn fast these days and know where the double-standards are when they see them. let’s pray hard for the country.

There is much truth that money does not attract talent, it merely attracts greed.

And may I add that greed in turn attracts
men with no integrity,
men with little empathy for others,
men who are self serving,
men who are untrustworthy,
men with clouded vision,
and if put in place to manage a country, will do us in !

You have just written the philosophical truth.

Great thinking !

Bad things happen because good people do nothing to stop them.

Now, this article is timely and the comments wise. Good for you TOC – it restores my faith in this site a wee bit…