The following is a letter to the editor of the South China Morning Post. It is written by an “European expat” who claims that he is living in Singapore currently. TOC thanks our reader Tony for alerting us to the letter.
I refer to the article “Singapore beats HK in survey of Asian expats”, March 12.
That “Singapore appears to have finally achieved its dream of being better than Hong Kong” was a highly laughable comment. Singapore has achieved the same status at the top for the past 10 years.
I am a European expat who stayed (or, more rightly, suffered) in Hong Kong for close to five years but chose to move to Singapore and obtained permanent resident status there (though I need to adjust my highly lucrative Hong Kong expat package in exchange).
My family and I are now enjoying the comforts, stability, safety and cleaner air of Singapore (plus the many more nice places and resorts that we can travel to in less than two hours, and the much more advanced and lively dining and entertainment options). This contrasts with the dirty and mundane, yet much more expensive Hong Kong.
But most important is the ease and efficiency of getting things done in a language I am more comfortable with, English. In fact, Singapore is so much more attractive than Hong Kong that I have the in-principle approval from our global headquarters to shut our office in Hong Kong and move it to Singapore, while maintaining a stronger presence in Shanghai.
Singapore beats Hong Kong in so many areas. Many friends are now making plans to move to Singapore after realising their misconceptions about the city.
Singaporeans may not be upfront with their thoughts and appear to be reserved, but I have made more local friends than I did in Hong Kong. At least, they are not like most arrogant but ignorant Hongkongers who think they know it all, and criticise and comment on almost everything and anything.
I can’t help but find most Hongkongers just a bunch of empty vessels, and definitely NATO (no action, talk only idiots – that’s how Singaporeans would describe Hongkongers).
Simon Morliere, Singapore
———
Join TOC’s Facebook group here.
———
“If you haven’t experienced living abroad, then there is no need for you to start complaining about your life here either.”
Going by your logics, no one can complain if he does not go through some degree of experience living in some countries and so it must be pretty good here.
Tell that to those people who may be prevented from leaving their countries easily and are living in some authoritarian or dictatorial regimes or worst places. North Kor** is one example.
I agree on some of the comments made here. Especially the one about Singaporeans practically placing foreigners on a pedestal.
Both Singapore and Hong Kong being one of the Four Asian Tigers, Hong Kong has certainly shown much more economic capabilities. I won’t pretend to be much of an economist, but on a superficial level, it doesn’t take someone well-versed in economics to see how Hong Kong has a simply striving market.
Politically, Singapore, due to the relatively less liberal government body, has people who’re generally more reserved, constructing arguments in thoughts rather than words. However, in Hong Kong, this is not the case, clearly illustrated by the recent DBS saga. While Singaporeans are (pathetically) voicing out their opinions in their stupid little haven called the ‘Speakers Corner’, their counterparts are taking it up to the streets with banners and whatnot.
Singapore constantly fares behind HK. This is obvious seeing as Hong Kong does not possess a state media (in which tales are spun and dissent oppressed). The more liberal environment may be a cause to Hong Kongers being more straightforward and upfront in conversation or exchanging in ideas. It may also be the submissive nature of Singaporeans that the expat likes Singapore (which is nothing for Singaporeans to be proud of).
#51, wonder whether you have made some research before making those comments in your article. Allow me to elaborate:
“Politically, Singapore, due to the relatively less liberal government body, has people who’re generally more reserved, constructing arguments in thoughts rather than words. However, in Hong Kong, this is not the case, clearly illustrated by the recent DBS saga. While Singaporeans are (pathetically) voicing out their opinions in their stupid little haven called the ‘Speakers Corner’, their counterparts are taking it up to the streets with banners and whatnot.”
Really, but Singapore government intervention in terms of the Lehmans Brothers was quoted by the HK investors as the right approach, and had used it as a reference to seek similar settlement approach from the HK banks.
“Singapore constantly fares behind HK. This is obvious seeing as Hong Kong does not possess a state media (in which tales are spun and dissent oppressed). The more liberal environment may be a cause to Hong Kongers being more straightforward and upfront in conversation or exchanging in ideas.”
Again, in accordance to official records, Singapore had been well ahead of HK in many areas (see some of the listed no. 1 for Singapore):
1) The most significant achievement is that Singapore had surpassed HK at the world’s 3rd most important financial centre (after New York and Londaon) since Sep 08.
2) Singapore had overtook HK as the world’s busiest port since 2006.
3) Singapore rank no. 1 in Asia for global competitiveness according to World Economic Forum.
4) Singapore is the most (no. 1) business friendly economy in the world according to latest New Economist survey.
4) Singapore is the best city to live in for Asian expatriates for the past 10 years.
5) Singapore is no. 1 in the world in terms of INNOVATION (from a economy development approach), well ahead of USA and throwing HK far behind, according to Bostom Consulting Group.
6) Singapore’s Changi Airport had consistently outbeat HK in having being voted as No. I by more global travel-related organizations.
7) Singapore is best Asian Nation for Business, ahead of HK in accordance to EIU (Economist Intelligence Unit).
If you want more information on other areas, please click the following link:
http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html
While I think there’re indeed still many areas that Singapore have to pursue more vigorously and learn from HK, and in particular, in terms of freedom of expressions and true democracy, which HK iswell ahead, I think we should also know what we had achieved and should be proud of ourselves and the efforts we had put in.
It is precisely because Singapore citizens have put in our efforts, and had achieved so much that PAP government should no longer take us for granted, and they have to accord us more respects, more involvement and more space to take in our views and opinions on how the country should be run and govern for the next lap. We want more say now not just in terms of economic terms, but also in terms of how we would like to lead a wholesome and meaningful life as Singaporeans.
BUT, please do not run down or look down on Singapore’s achievements just because we disagreed with the PAP government!
sorry, I am referring to #52 “X”. Apologies for the mistake!
TonyXiao (#53)
All the yardsticks you used is only applicable for an expat who wants to compare life in Singapore and life in HK, not for a potential Singaporean emigrant who wants to leave this God-forsaken place called Singapore.
if these yardsticks are impressive, the bread and butter issues are even more important. domestic issues are what counts in the measure of a good and effective govt., not guinness type of international achievements. for sure, charity begins at home, not the other way. personally, these trophies are meaningless and i not sure if alot of people really give shit abt them either.
and how would the government take care of bread and butter issues without first making Singapore a good place for investment, which in turn creates job and feed the mouth of the citizens.
some people just don’t think with their brains (or do they have one?)
thank god we do not have too many of such people in our cabinet, else we will all go hungry!
assuming you are retrenched, sick,old and find the social welfare system limiting to your needs, these international achievements are the last things you wud have cared abt. (…got that?) if you have a cosy job, dun need to worry abt competing with foreigners, living up the good life as high flyer, goes to cooking classes or operas, and the reality on the other side is just blur to you, perhaps then these awards have different meaningz to you… boost your ego wat.
now, where do i get the idea that this is tsimply oo chim for you my boy?
singapore is a good place to live in if you are very rich, or you are not a singaporean.
If you are a singaporean,
you have to spend 2 years + of your life in the jungles to do things which doesnt add value to your career.
However, if you are not a singaporean,
you have the benefit of 2 years headstart in your life to advance in your career,
with the option to become a singaporean when you feel like it.
Being a rather “reserved” Singaporean, I usually don’t comment but I feel I should voice out some views this time on behalf of my fellow Singaporeans, especially since I’m an educator.
While I agree with the writer’s views that SIngapore is safe etc. and understand that some other points are merely his opinions, I want to point out that the writer’s statement “I can’t help but find most Hongkongers just a bunch of empty vessels, and definitely NATO (no action, talk only idiots – that’s how Singaporeans would describe Hongkongers).” is totally untrue. This is the first time I heard of such a term “NATO”, let alone the untrue information that Singaporeans use this term to describe Hong Kongers. I seriously hope the writer gets his facts right before accusing Singaporeans of doing things they did not do or generalising the entire Singaporean community based on comments from his friends who might only make up a minority group or might not even be Singaporeans. Such a comment should not be taken lightly as it would adversely affect the harmonious relationship between two parties – Hong Kongers and SIngaporeans.
I do not associate any negative terms with Hong Kongers and I am sure many of my fellow Singaporeans would agree with me. My friends and I enjoy watching Hong Kong drama serials and we admire the Hong Kongers for their creativity in this aspect. I also had the pleasure of bringing a group of Hong Kongers around Singapore and I enjoyed interacting with them and learning about their culture. I certainly hope no one judges a community based on some black sheep which make up only a minority.
Preference of one country over another really depends on an individual’s preference due to his interest, age, profession etc. As a Singaporean who enjoys travelling to other countries, I have to admit that when I’m overseas, one of the things that I really miss is the wide array of food in Singapore that is a result of our multiracial culture and identity. This links to the point that I’m about to make and which I think is a uniquely important feature of Singapore. Singaporeans appear to be passive at times because we think twice before we speak so as not to offend anyone, especially since we live in a multi-cultural and multi-religious society. Hence, I think the passivity of Singaporeans should sometimes be viewed from a positive light and efforts to maintain racial and religious tolerance and preserve our heritage and identity as one Singaporean nation should be applauded for.
Whether you, the reader, is Hong Konger, Singaporean, or of other nationalities and whether you prefer Hong Kong over Singapore or vice versa, just remember to be mindful of what you say to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings or insults while sharing your interesting insights across the globe.
TonyXiao:
“1) The most significant achievement is that Singapore had surpassed HK at the world’s 3rd most important financial centre (after New York and Londaon) since Sep 08.
2) Singapore had overtook HK as the world’s busiest port since 2006.
3) Singapore rank no. 1 in Asia for global competitiveness according to World Economic Forum.
4) Singapore is the most (no. 1) business friendly economy in the world according to latest New Economist survey.
4) Singapore is the best city to live in for Asian expatriates for the past 10 years.
5) Singapore is no. 1 in the world in terms of INNOVATION (from a economy development approach), well ahead of USA and throwing HK far behind, according to Bostom Consulting Group.
6) Singapore’s Changi Airport had consistently outbeat HK in having being voted as No. I by more global travel-related organizations.
7) Singapore is best Asian Nation for Business, ahead of HK in accordance to EIU (Economist Intelligence Unit).”
I can find just as many ranking as which HK is listed as number one. PLUS, some of your info is outdated.
For example, HK is the world’s second largest financial market for IPO listing after London. (ahead of NYC and well ahead of Singapore).
Singapore being the third most important market??? Considered by whom? Market Cap? (Not even close). IPOs (London is 1st, HK is 2nd, NY is 3rd).
Hong Kong is ranked the freest economy in the world for 12 consecutive year.
Singapore Airport WAS ranked the best airport in the world, but it is NO LONGER the case. HK’s airport has overtaken the top spot.
Shanghai has overtaken HK AND Singapore as the world’s busiest port. Singpoare is 2nd and HK is 3rd.
The average IQ of HK is 107, ranked 1st in the world vs the average IQ of 102 of Singapore according to British Research “IQ and Wealth of Nations”.
Most importantly, there are 98,000 families in HK with a net worth of over 5.8 million US Dollars excluding their primary residence.
There are more than 50 billionairs in HK in a population of 7 millions. (The highest concentration of billionairs in the world.)
There are more millionairs (USD term) in % of population in HK than anywhere else in the world.
Get your facts straight and updated. I am native to HK, and we are not so used to government progaganda like you are and am therefore rather updated with my info.
Plus, you can brag about all your rankings, and I, on the other hand, will follow the BUCKS. The truth is we have more billionairs and millionairs in HK than in Singapore. For example, the top 50 richest people of HK are consisted entirely of billionairs (USD) according to Forbes.
One last thing, the myth of HK people not being able to speak English isn’t even true. I speak better English than most Singaporeans. Singapore is NOT considered as an English speaking country, and most Singaporeans do not even speak standard English.
Now, now, lets all not quarrel over whether HK or SG is better just because some frickin ang moh wrote this article. In my opinion, both HK and SG are fantastic. I really love the life and vibracy of HK, the whole buzz and activity makes the whole place really exciting. But SG is good too in that its a really clean, stable and safe place.
But his ang moh’s comments are rather one-sided. I totally don’t believe that what he said about HK is true. And I have never heard any singaporean ( being singaporean myself ) say that HKers are NATO. Absolutely rubbish. In fact, most people I know like HK. They think HKers are creative, business minded and very hardworking people.
Theres no country that can be absolutely perfect. Accept it. It’s bound to have some plus points and some other stuff that just make you wanna scream. This Ang moh’s view is NOT a reflection of the general singaporean population. Besides, I don’t even think he can give a really accurate description of singapore since he isnt native.
I am an expat who has lived all over the world. I am currently trying to decide whether to move from Singapore back to Hong Kong and have been reading through the comments above to get an idea of others comparisons of the two cities.
No one appears to be mentioning the threat of dengue in Singapore vs the air pollution of Hong Kong. Singapore is always described as safe, stable etc but is it? 30,000 people a year get dengue but half are not reported as many are not hospitalised. If a person is bitten a second time with dengue there is a strong risk of developing hemorragic dengue that can be life threatening.
You can get Hepatitis and Japanese Encephalitis in HK but what are the statisitics, what are the real statisitics for Dengue in Singapore? Malaria has recently been found in Jurong (Singapore), but the public never hears about it. Dengue is so common in Singapore that there is realitively no point wearing Deet, long sleeves or avoiding the East Coast etc. It is considered an “embarrassment” and that maybe the answer as to why we are given so little information about it. Don’t we have a right to know what risk we are putting ourselves and our families at by living in Singapore?
move to america or cananda.
Hi everyone,
I’m from Austria and I’m living and working in Hong Kong for almost 2 years. Today the head quater of my company made me the offer to move over to Singapore to face a new challange, so you can imagine that the above conversation was highly interesting for me.
I enjoy staying in Hong Kong a lot and I can’t share the experience of the author about the Hong Kong people. To me most of the people were friendly, in fact I made quite a cirlce of friends here in Hong Kong. What I’ve got to admit, is that the polution is also quite a burden for me, especially because I’m a kid out of the Austrian mountains where the air is incredible fresh and clean. ;-)
As much as I enjoyed reading the above statements as much I would appreciate some more information out of the hands of singapore experts.
* what about the daily living expenses comparing to Hong Kong (food, MTR, taxis, laundry, accomodation – resp. monthly apartment rates (90sq.meters) electric and water expenses, ….
* taxes? What is the percentage which should be calculated
* is a car usually required, what are the cost (taxes, insurance, parking space,….)
* how easy is it to get a working permit
* what languages should be known (… is english enough?)
* what else is crucial to know about singapore
thanks for your help,
cheers
Maex
forgot to click to notify me of follow-up comments on this post via e-mail ;-)
Dear Concerned:
I’m an American living in San Francisco, on the cusp of moving to Asia, and find your comments to be insightful. I have an opportunity to move to Singapore or Hong Kong – I did some quick research on Dengue and found that:
1) The government of Singapore does not hide statistics – in fact it publishes them and makes copious suggestions on risk mitigation.
2) The prevalence of Dengue and severity of adverse health impact is a material issue I was not aware on over a dozen previous trips to the city. It is a disconcerting reality of life in a tropical climate.
Hong Kong certainly exudes an energy that is alluring and reminds me of my time in New York and London, but I agree with others who have posted here – depending on the stage of life you’re at, the things you value, Singapore may indeed be more appealing to those of us who are thinking about raising families rather than partying the night away in LKF and other classier parts of town.
I find that much of East Asia now compares favorably on a tax basis with my home country. Even though I will be subject to an outrageous tax on income living abroad as long as I maintain my citizenship, as a matter of principle I will do whatever it takes to avoid subjecting more than half of my income to taxes (combined federal, state, FICA, etc. burden – prior to property taxes – for high earners in the US). Tax issues are a material determinant of where talent will migrate – Hong Kong is slightly better than Singapore, but both are paradises compares to other great cities of the West, including NYC, SF, and London.
Bottom line – you have it good in both places… both are world class cities, well positioned with proximity to the countries that will drive world GDP growth for decades to come.
This expat is still laughably naive about Singapore, so I wish him good dreams still in his Singapore honeymoon. Before long, he’ll soon realize his worst nightmare that yes, Singapore is also a NATO country, and worse, one which uses its housing market as a gambling casino. I doubt he’ll have much in his expat packages to cover his expenses here. Have a good dreams in Singapore!
am singaporean, and lived in hk for the past year,but before that in tokyo for 8.5 years.. singapore is definitely more liveable than hong kong.. i stay in hk mid-levels but rather stay in singapore hdb flats – more of a relaxed feeling….hk is definitely more polluted/dirty and it makes it depressing.. also although new territories / kowloon looks like there is more to do, its not really that different… of course singapore vs tokyo, i miss tokyo a lot..
Don’t compare Singapore to other Asian countries , it keeps comparing itself to western countries . I will tell you from a few years of experience here , Singapore is not the clean proper place government publicity or naive expats say it is . Everything from air pollution to noise and rubbish is worse than a lot of countries I have lived in , and the laws governing certain types of pollution are inexistant , basically because it might affect GDP .
Singapore may have been good up to about 5 or years ago , today its gets worse. One example is diesel engines , they allow very old diesel engine technology to be used and sold in SIngapore , and that creates a lot of polution . Apart from noise pollution which is basically not monitored , pollution is also how much waste you generate , and from that point of view , Singapore is very high on the list of polluters , not only from consummer products , but the building industry .
Basically no Singaporean will contest the governments figures , why , because they have to think only work and money , and no it appears until you die , as you will never be allowed to retire .
singapore’s gpd per capita beats hong kong now. the cards are on the table.
Well, I was born in HK and I’m living in Singapore now.
I think both places have pros and cons.
Expenses in Singapore are way too much higher than in HongKong. Just look at the price of no matter vegetables or branded stuffs. They are more expensive due to GST (it seems like it will increase again). Look at all the taxes, COE, ERP all the money that people have gave. And all the electricity, water bill are all rising, even taxi fare, bus fare as well.
Expenses in HongKong are way lower than Singapore, except the restaurants, but if you cook your dinner every single day, it will be cheaper, HKD$10 you can get 500g of vegetables, in Singapore SGD$2.50 you can only get a small pack of veggie.
Because we have 7% GST. and HK doesn’t have GST.
Singapore is no doubt cleaner than HongKong for sure. But safer? I will say it’s almost the same, there are many cases of thief and all, just that it will not be reported in the news, recently there are gang fights and all, so it will not be as safe as used to be.
Singapore is a place for living after retirement when you can relax and live in a slower pace area. Hongkong is crowded, the pace is faster. Singapore is too boring for teenagers and growing adults. We are just students and Sentosa is too expensive for us, Universal Studio is too small and they only have roller coasters, it increased their ticket price to $70 which is one day pay of my part time job.
The place for leisure in Singapore are, East Coast Park, USS, All the shopping malls (but they always have the same shops, there are 4 or 5 levis outlet in one orchard road.) How boring can it be.
I’m leaving after my NS and come back when I retire, which is 60 years old.
Simon Morliere. Why did you chicken out and not responding to so many negative feedback towards your ridicules comments towards HK people? How many millions of HK people do you know to generalized “most Hongkongers just a bunch of empty vessels, and definitely NATO (no action, talk only idiots”? Proof what said is true or apologize to HK people.
Btw, thank you for leaving HK.
As more and more arrogant Europeans move out, HK just gets better and better.
Sorry you’re not intelligent enough to conduct business in a language other than English, and maybe some other irrelevant Euro language. In time, Mandarin will replace English as the principal business language (in SG too), and then your English-centric perspective won’t matter too much.
The restaurant scene isn’t more advanced and lively, it is just more western in style and therefore familiar with what you’re accustomed. Anyone who has spent so much as an hour out of Central and Midlevels realizes the HK food scene is incredibly dynamic.
Singaporeans are great people living in a fabulous city. I feel bad for them that they have to you there. Then again, you no doubt spend 95% of your time with other uncultured white people, so they probably don’t.
i am a singaporean and i feel so proud to have a hk girlfriend. i use improper english and it is usual in sg.
kudos to koolstorm, those singaporeans who look at rankings publicised by the media is just too daft. by definition of media in singapore, it is of utmost propaganda and bias.
in sg, i find myself too constricted and cannot put forth my potential and creativity. in sg its all about certificates.
kudos to YC, i find hk much more interesting base on one sole fact. their entertainment industry!! the best example in contrast to state-owned mediacorp who hires robotic humans to act. it shows that hk is much more liberal and enterprising. mind you, hk has over 7 million people and sg has over 5 million. hk has a strong economy, and has resources that gives an edge to sg’s economy.
can’t say for other people, but mostly all my friends want to migrate. too mundane, too competitive, too stiff. not my ball game.
i personally never go hk before but my near two decades in singapore is quite unbearable for me. i just want to say hk will be a good choice to find an alternative residence.
Hey pg do get your facts right… Singapore is actually quite stringent on diesel vehicles. Our diesel tax is really high here, that’s why you font see many diesel cars(which by the way is better fir the environment that a lot of people believe). Singapore has also made it mandatory that diesel taxis and buses must meet euro 4 pollution standards, which is why many of our old crown comfort cabs are dissappearing. There are very few cities in the world with
A density like singapores and maintains a relatively low pollution level.
Whether hong kong or Singapore is better is of course a personal thing…both have their charms…singapore was a bit more livable than hk maybe 10 years ago but since housing prices has been going up,many singaporeans find it a bit of a struggle, which is part of the reason why we are seeing a bit of resentment from singaporeans…
I’m an HK living overseas, but I admire Singapore for its well-rounded and educated opinions compared to HKer’s narrow-mindedness. There are lots of strengths in Spore over HK, whose weaknesses were initially built in the post-war era on a low-quality base of face-obsessed Cantonese immigrants/refugees, which is why we get the lack of educated behavior, etiquette, English abilities/thought and depth relative to Sporeans.
Having said that, I agree with you that there is no better equal to Hong Kong than Singapore. I think that it’s an honor for HK to have a well-respected rival such as SG and I greatly admire Singapore and love how it’s also mutual from Spore’s side as well. I truly hope that HK could go off as an independent nation, and forge a federation with major political, economic, and social alliances and union with Spore, as an equal!
Having lived in HK in the 80s, SG is very nostalgic to me in that the kids on pingtoi’s (shared balconies) back in HK, had hairstyles, darker-toned skin color, clothing, and slippers, and their residential environments, look strikingly similar and nostalgic, but SG appears cleaner, organized, clean air (= brighter environment) They are like the nicer HKers of southeast Asia.
I have found that I draw greater similarities with Sporeans that I meet and learn about, which makes me apathetic with the Sporean’s point of view, often to the extent where I would agree with their point of view much more than the HKer’s.
IMO, Singaporeans are in some ways cooler than HK and Japan because Spore is an independent nation that is not linked up to China like HK is. Japan’s accelerating downhill. Sporeans are proud of who they are, which is absent in HKers.
Sometimes I think to myself, it would be so cool if I were Singaporean instead of HongKonger!
Hi folks,
I’ve lived in HK 1995-2002,
I’ve lived in Shanghai 2002- 2009,
I now live in SNG 2009 – present
In a nutshell my advice to anyone about each city is as follows:
HK a great place for young ambitious career people – you will sacrifice living conditions
SH a great place for opportunities – it truly is the next frontier although you need to bear with the Chinese way of doing biz …
SNG a great place for a young family to balance life and career; probably boring for teenagers and young professionals.
Hong Kong’s economy actually relies a lot on mainland’s cheap products,manufacturing bases,investments and central government’s favoured policies(which is to some extent at the expense of shanghai’s economic development).An example of HK benefiting from mainland’s help is that Hong Kongers don’t need to worry about NS as servicemen are all recruited from mainland,whereas singaporean teenagers do.so i admire singapore’s complete independence and i am afraid that contrary to what Kevin C posted,HK could fare worse in many aspects if independent
“Hongkongers who think they know it all, and criticise and comment on almost everything and anything.”
That is so HK yet I think every other people also think they know it all.
Did we forget that Military service is compulsory for children of expats in SG! I think that this knocks SG out of any possible competition with HK. It free and open for the parents, but closed and North Korean for the children!