The nice thing about having an Orchid called Thein Sein is that you can burn it without going to jail.

To smallvice585,
If someone sees you burning a Thein Sein orchid, the police will soon be knocking on your door. However, if you are beaten up in a busy MRT station, the police will say they can’t do anything and advise you to “move on”.

I suspect this is part of the whole ’soft power’ engagement. But it sickens me to have this idiot walk through Botanic Gardens.

I pity the orchid and hope it doesn’t display in the orchid garden for tourists to spit on.

speechless and dumbfounded, most burmese left opression and surpresssion, only to be what I don’t know. they left a condition for a good condition!

what a pity. i pity the orchid !

I can understand if our govt wants to be diplomatic with foreign leaders.
But the gesture of naming a local orchid hybrid after a member of the
ruthless dictatorship is overboard.
What’s next? To invite Gen Than Shwe or Mugabe and give them with
the nation’s highest award for oppression to their own citizens?

How dare Singapore government discredit the peaceful nature of flower by associating our flower with foreigner “murderers” due to economic interest ? By doing so, our government has increased the face of wrath of nature. Didn’t we have lightning strike on Merlion ?

Name of Orchid ? Junta Orchid ? Oppressor Orchid ? Killer Orchid ?

There is something severely wrong with our decision makers receiving million dollar salaries.

10 Years Prison for burning Orchids

What an irony to name such a beautiful flower like the orchid after a
human brute from the Burmese Junta !

What a damn shame for S’pore to honour such a man !

Wouldn’t it make more sense to name the orchid after Ms Au San Suu Kyi ?

What the hell is our people in Botanical Gardens thinking ?
unless the idea came from our own despotic leadership.

Perhaps to make our orchids world famous,
we need to name more of them after infamous people.

It does seem to TOC readers that to do this seems to be giving a diplomatic courtesy to the junta leader beyond what is expected of normal diplomacy.

However, let us try to understand why our leaders made this decision. We surely cannot assume they are plain stupid and have not considered the implications of doing so. If so, what could be the other factors at play here that encouraged them to do so?

If you want to oppose the decision, it is important to consider and understand what the government thinks instead on focussing on what is obvious to all.

Here are some concerns they might have and some have already pointed them out:

1) Self-interest. We trade with Burma and from a purely selfish basis we want to be on as good terms with them as possible.

2) Soft power engagement. We hope that by establishing friendly terms with them the Myanmar govt will be more pliant and receptive to our suggestions in the future. This might turn out to help the burmese more in the long run.

Ultimately, while the military junta might be immoral and unjust, the way for us to deal with it has to be wise and balanced. In this case, perhaps some might feel the naming is going too far, but others might not. We have a right to complain, but the government has the right to make the decision.

Just about a month ago, a group of us saw off a Burmese at the airport. He had been working in S’pore for 14 years and never had any trouble with the law. He was one of those who helped us build some of our infrastructure such as the Circle Line.

He then took part in the Orchard Road protest against the Burmese brutal crackdown in 2007. He wasn’t part of any group. Just an ordinary Burmese who wanted to show his solidarity with his suffering fellow citizens.

The S’pore govt decided not to renew his work permit and asked him to leave S’pore. He has now received asylum status from some NGOs in Jakarta, the last I heard.

And here we are, rolling out the red carpet for one of those who belong to the murderous regime, what is effectively a band of murderers.

Here is what our PM said of the regime in June 2007:

“”We should not, because of Myanmar, forsake the cooperation, the relationship, the mutual exchange and enrichment which is waiting to take place and I believe that this message has had some effect.”

– International Herald Tribune

What “cooperation”?

What “relationship”?

What “mutual exchange”?

What “effect”?

Naming an orchid after a murderer is just plain nauseating.

I wish my government had more backbone and not prostitute itself and my country to criminals like these brutes.

Shame on the PAP government who honour tyrant to suppress its citizens.

It seems that this country Singapore is cursed

by its’ very own inhabitants everyday.

Is this the beginning of the End ?

“Asesina Ano Thein Sein” would be fitting. Means murderous ******* Thein Sein in Spanish.

Sure, let him name the orchid but name it after Nobel laurette, Aung San Suu Kyi.

Do we name an orchid ater PM Thein Sein because we sell mines, guns , bombs and other deadly forms of munitions that maim and mangle the bodies of some poor minority group members?

As a Sing person I say we can do without the profits. We want to love our fellow human beings.

Our garmen is so greedy it has to all it can to sell its arms and it is most profitable.

I am ashamed.

Seems like an act of deflowering………

As a rich country in ASEAN, Singapore government, should not have good relationship with Junta government if Singapore government respects human right and ordinary Myanmar citizens.

Dear Ordinary Singapore citizens,

Please ask your government administration, not to support Junta. Supporting Junta is really dangerous for ordinary Myanmar citizens.

From the Heart of Myanmar Citizens!

This isn’t even an issue to start with.

*-*

By endorsing Junta Leader, with the naming of our orchid after him, is telling the whole world that Singapore and Junta are birds of the same feather. Dr Chee Soon Juan has already cautioned Singapore towards moving in similar direction and he was threw into prison. Now, we are beginning to see some truth in his words and the lights are getting clearer. Don’t we?

What an insult to the orchid!

#12

“Soft power engagement. We hope that by establishing friendly terms with them the Myanmar govt will be more pliant and receptive to our suggestions in the future. This might turn out to help the burmese more in the long run.”

Surely you jest!

wkc 24,

It is a part of our FP. Soft power has its place in the toolkit of all states’ diplomacy.

Even the Great Powers do it. But I still personally find it abhorrent, while understanding that on a realist, Morgenthau-istic pov, it is a logical tool.

“2) Soft power engagement. We hope that by establishing friendly terms with them the Myanmar govt will be more pliant and receptive to our suggestions in the future. This might turn out to help the burmese more in the long run.”

Every country without moral to consider can say this easily too, don’t they ? So what’s stopping other country then ?

Opppsss.. someone collude with the Japanese as japanese translator in WW2, and did they say something like “at least I’m indirectly helping the people when I work with the japanese !” !

Oppsss… we may just have a exchange programme here. How about inviting the oldman to Burma and name the Burma’s orchid as Leechid ?

Maybe name the Orchid as OMD (Orchid of Mass Destruction) as it symbolize selling Singapore-made weapons and ammunition to the junta military.

Friends, take it easy…

Think of it, the cost of naming a flower after a person versus the benefits that our country can get…

stock price of ST Engineering depends on this.

@ 26 Daniel,

All the different category of weapons we export to the Burmese Junta
should be named after our orchids.
It will be a good brand name for weapons designed and manufactured in S’pore and our govt can claim to the world they are exporting orchids.

@ 12 Joshua,
You can try to understand how this damned govt thinks but not me.
It does not matter any more.

Friends, take it easy…

Think of it, the cost of naming a flower after a person versus the benefits that our country can get…

Stock price of ST Engineering depends on this, so is our NODEX and GDP, and the civil servants’ salaries.

“Think of it, the cost of naming a flower after a person versus the benefits that our country can get…”

The decision and karma we make in the past and present will come back to haunt us in the future. When the oldman dies, it is payback’s time for Singapore.

Burma doesn’t have the money to buy our increasingly expensive weapon systems. Why should we aim for them when we can sell to the Brits and Indians.

#32

Brits and Indians are in the space-age technology, where are we?

Burma can still afford low quality products and stone-age weapons.

“Burma doesn’t have the money to buy our increasingly expensive weapon systems. Why should we aim for them when we can sell to the Brits and Indians.”

Burma doesn’t have money ? Are you talking about junta or the people of Burma ? It is the junta that buy the weapons to destroy the people of Burma. Junta confiscate the wealth of Burma for themselves, don’t they ?

“Why should we aim for them when we can sell to the Brits and Indians.”
When did business has limit ? Singapore can sell to Brits and Indians if they want it, no one stopping them anyway.
Of course, selling to Junta means higher premium profit since other countries may not want to do business with junta openly. Opps… We may even need Junta to help out if our oldman call for army during freak election… Remember our SAF never have experience of killing innocent people but Junta does.

34 Daniel,

If you think Burma are in the big leagues of defence procurements at the moment, you are sorely mistaken. What everyone has been selling to them has been nothing more than simple weaponry that is hardly the sole premise of any nation.

And your point about suppressing the citizenry, do you really believe that this will happen here? C’mon, take a reality check and look at the overriding national interest of Singapore and you will realise that sustaining a projected reputation ranks higher than metaphorical ideology.

There will be no use of the army in Singapore, because that is tantamount to contravention of the Constitution and smells like an illegal coup, which will never be tolerated. Never.

“’mon, take a reality check and look at the overriding national interest of Singapore and you will realise that sustaining a projected reputation ranks higher than metaphorical ideology.”

Reality check ? Who expect Singapore to lose unprecedented billions… and not even LKY ? So what cannot be happen to Singapore ? It is beyond our control ?
If other countries doing it, should our government follow it ? If other country suppressing the citizen, should our government do the same. Monkey see, monkey do ?
Never say never because many of the things that we thought will never appear, appear before our eyes in Singapore, didn’t we ?

36 Daniel,

“Never say never because many of the things that we thought will never appear, appear before our eyes in Singapore, didn’t we ?”

Well, they didn’t surprise me…

wherever he walks, plants die. whenever he speaks, the air is poisoned.
whatever he touches, it rusts and rots.

Hello “Youngman” (7).
I’m an old man. What’s wrong with inviting Mugabe or Gen Than Shwe? Are they obnoxious people.? You know them well or you had been influenced by BBC broadcasts or Ex -President Bush speeches.?
The Burmese are intelligent people. They elected their government. If the government turns out to be no good, then they must find ways to get rid of them even if they have to lay down their lives by so doing. No one else can help the Burmese. A small pocket of demonstrations here and there does not indicate that the Burmese government is all bad. (Or else China is the greatest evil country on earth because of demonstrations by the tibetan people)
Gen Thein Sein must have done something good for Singapore. So i do not think there is any thing wrong to name an orchid after him.
As Singaporeans we must always remember that other people’s enemies are not necessarily our enemies. If we ever take such a stand we’ll never have anyone as our friend.Let’s take Malaysia as the first example. Even as the closest neighbours they have perpetually threatened to cut off water supplies to our country. They refused to sell sand to Singapore when we need sand for our development. They need our tourist dollars. But when our people visit the country.our people get mugged. Take Indonesia. as another example. During the 2004 tsunami we poured millions to help them. They too have stopped the sale of sand even they need the money for their poor. I’m sure our country is waiting to have our orchids named after some Malaysians or Indonesians

Can’t believe I’m reading this.
No wonder LKY sanctions the use of any brute force on his own citizens should there be a freak election result.

@ 39, hello old man, I am also old lah.

How do you know Thein Sein has done something good for S’pore ? Same applies to you, do you know him or did our political leaders personally told you so ? Or was it strictly a personal relationship between Thein Sein and some of our leaders ?

By your reasoning the Burmese are intelligent people and have elected their govt, then the North Koreans must have elected Kim’s govt also and the same can be said of the Iraqis when Sadam was alive. So the perception of Myanmar Junta by the entire world is wrong by your logic. Have you forgotten that Aung San Suu Kyi who was elected is still under house arrest ? Why don’t you ask George Yeo for an honest answer? You know who is George Yeo right ?

Again by your reasoning, the small pockets of demonstrations does not indicate the burmese govt is all bad, then the same applies to the North Korean govt under Kim and also the Iraqi govt under Sadam when he was alive. In fact the latter govts must be even better because I don’t think there was ever any kind of demonstration in the first place.
So you are implying no demonstration = good govt

You should take note that eventhough the US is not well liked, the truth is, S’pore owes its security in this part of the world to them. Again ask George Yeo why we offer them to set up base in S’pore.
Just remember that there are certain values worth upholding, because the citizens of the world may feel S’pore is not worth protecting when the crunch comes. And I believe the incumbent US President takes public opinion seriously.

As for muggings that you have mentioned, do take note that Malaysian citizens are victims also. Criminals target only those who are indiscreet and give themselves away as being wealthy. Why don’t you ask the Malaysians themselves ? By the way, did any past or present Malaysian PM threatened to cut our water supply ? Or were such threats made by politicians trying to score points? Think lah, as a fellow old man I know a few statements from opportunistic politicians do not represent the govt and its people.

And the issue of not being able to buy sand, it is all about price lah !
Make a good offer where the supplier cannnot refuse. Isn’t it about buying and selling ? Afterall it is our neighbours soil right ? By the way did Mah B T personally grumble to you and told you how unreasonable our neighbours have been ? Frankly I am not surprise we do not have friends in this region, go and figure this out. The clue my fellow old man , lies with how this govt treats its own ctizens. Have a nice day and good health.

Joshua Wong wrote: 2) Soft power engagement. We hope that by establishing friendly terms with them the Myanmar govt will be more pliant and receptive to our suggestions in the future. This might turn out to help the burmese more in the long run.

WE AS A NATION MAY ENGAGE IN SOFT POWER WITH THE BURMESE GOV WITHOUT THE NEED TO NAME PLANTS AFTER THESE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

WHAT ARE OUR LEADERS THINKING? WHAT ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS HAVE THEY MADE BEFORE COMING TO THIS DECISION?

WILL FUTURE LEADERS, US, UK…. VISIT THE BOTANIC GARDEN AFTER THIS? HUMAN RIGHT ACTIVISTS MAY REMIND THEM OF THIS PLACE.

BUT couldn’t they name the orchid AFTER the politically oppressed have been freed and allowed to engage in fair elections? Or perhaps, it’s a congratulatory patting of backs by like minded folks?

Cos to me, the brilliance of LKY’s PAP system has always left me in awe. Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong Il and THAN SHWE- these guys are SMALL TIME. They use bullets and prisons. They incur the wrath of public relations nightmare. All MM Lee does is use the law. It’s legal. It’s fair. And there’s nothing the opposition can do about it. Same bullshit objective – different smell.

KILLER ORCHID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We must impose economic sanctions on the orchid. No fertilizer or watering for the orchid. The orchid must be left to fend for itself until it repents.

The Nyanmar Junta may repay Singapore by having City, Building, River, mountain, nature reserves and whatever name after Singapore Leaders and the relationships/friendships will be stronger for the benefits of both countries.

Not bad, right ?

ya, no hum welcoming this leader from up north leh.
Last time Thaksin also very much welcomed. ;)

“BO-TANIC GARDEN” should be renamed as SA-TANIC GARDEN then because it will harbour the symbol of destruction in the form of Killer orchid , all for the sake of economic interest. Should avoid this garden as it bring bad omen and fengshui…. It is sick to know that there is a killer symbol in the land of Singapore. But then what’s new … Singapore has become SINgapore thank to the greedy and immoral government.

Hi @39.
Thanks for your response.
You have brought into this discussion, Iraq and N. Korea and two politicians. I do not know these two countries well. As such i am in no position to comment on their political systems. Neither do i know much about the two politicians except that they are our ministers. As such i am not privy to their thoughts.
You may be right that Thein Sein had an orchid plant named after him because of close relationship. But i doubt it . I want to believe that it was because he did something good for Singapore.
On the sale of sand to Singapore, our two neighbours banned their export. Thus the issue of cost is not in the equation.
On the supply of water to Singapore, you are right that there are politicians who will seize such opportunities for political gain. But there is also the possibility that these people are being used to make such threats on their leaders behalf. But being at the end of the stick, you can be sure that these are not joking matters. In politics there is an addage that there are no permanent friends nor permanent enemies. We should therefore not be too worried over this issue
I get the impression that as a senior citizen you are still not being treated well by the current government. Well election is coming . Exercise your rights! Have a good day

A PSC scholar who is affiliated to MFA told me that he had to join the Singapore delegation to Kim Jong Ill’s birthday celebrations in 2005 as part of his scholarship’s summer internship program.

Will the Botanic garden put up …

The “DANGER” sign near this particular orchid?

Or CCTV camera ( surely in operation 24 hr , not like the one at detention center )?

Sign of “Fine S$ 1000 for spitting at the orchid” ?

No, they will put up BIG welcome sign board for Junta PM. Don’t you know reportedly in some other blogs that one of the biggest depositors in our local bank are from Junta ? Why should our profit-driven PAP turn away such a good money which then can be to benefit themself by paying millions dollars.

khoo @ 39
You may be an old man but i don’t think you are wise.You must be living like a frog in the well or just plain ignorant despite your age.
Than Shwe and Mugabe are not oboxious people? Gosh, they must be angels
to you. Since when were Burmese allowed to elect their government? Was the
party poplularly elected by the people allowed to take office?
Same with Mugabe. From being one of the richest countries on the African continent , Zimbabwe is now a basket case.
I don’t need to be influenced by BBC or CNN or whatever foreign reports.
Just google these 2 angels of yours and see how many websites have
a good thing to say about them

Khoo @ 39
I have no objection if the govt were to invite Than Shwe or Mugabe here.
But my earlier post @ 7 states that if we were to invite them so as to
confer them with our nation’s highest award, that I will have to take issue
with.

If we’re in a 1st world country this would be inconceivable. There are certain standards for who we should associate ourselves with. The junta have slaughtered, raped, tortured and imprisoned. How can any decent country associate itself with them?? I do know that the PAP sells them weapons, and their money is stashed in sg banks.

Incidentally, a Burmese friend told me that sg is showing the signs of decay which made his country the sorry state it is today. Burma used to be very prosperous, like sg, but soon sg will become just like Burma today…..

I don’t have problem pathetic gov here name thing after murderers and killers but at most it should name these murderers as name for weed and poisonous plant not beautiful flower.

sometimes i wonder what direction is Sg heading….at the expense of our national symbol? what is the value of our national flower?

Our elites seem to like to mingling with dictators from around Asia.

Burma is but only one of them. The North Koreans are also one of their best friends too. I guess probably most of their money laundering is done here with our elite’s blessings.

1o$orchidNOTE,
isn’t we glad to know that we have one of the most corrupted government in the world. No wonder ex-president Ong ask the government to declare their assets as the so-called nation’s asset may just belong and sign to certain big happy family. Oh… Singapore is not corrupted because there is no such thing as corruption in Singapore government, only business as usual.

It is a pity that you are not aware that many ‘uncles’ and ‘aunties’, way past retirement age, do not have enough money to survive. They have to work very hard (many earning $600 per month) just to get by.

Lee KY wrote “From 3rd world to 1st world’, but that’s nonsense because many of our senior citizens are in dire straits. The PAP government has no sense of justice, righteousness, compassion and fair-play. The minsters and top civil servants are drunk with the big fat salary they draw each month from the Lee government.

The Burmese regime is the worst military junta in Asia. It kills its own citizens, engages in the drug trade, prostitution and many types of vice-related activities. It’s just utterly shameful that the PAP government has close links with the leaders of this very corrupt country and, dishonour the name of Singapore by naming an orchid after its leader.

I wonder who made the decision to host the Burmese PM and to have the naming. I am deeply embarrassed by the decisions. In a multinational setting, I shall blush every time Burma is mentioned.

Hi ‘60′
Whether we are rich or poor we can always extend a helping hand whenever and where ever we can. The Myanmese are relatively poor. Our government has offered scholarships to their students. We helped them during Typhoon Nargis. Naming an orchid after their leader is not a big issue. We should try never to ape the west in following their judgemental values. One day the Mujahideen in Afghanistan are freedom fighters. The next moment they are the world’s greatest terrorists. The west brand the current government as a ‘regime’. Let’s not follow them. Tomorrow they can turn around and tell the world that Myanmar is the greatest democracy. Then we’ll be left high and dry.

Money is king. Be it Junta or druglord from Mexico, PAP will welcome them with arms wide open. To PAP, everything is just about money. You have the money, you talk. W/o money, keep your fuking mouth shut and just pay tax. That’s their mentality. Like it or hate it, that culture is going to stay with us for a long time. Even civil services have adopted that kind of culture. Everything must pay. Kid’s school fees, maid levy, petrol tax, tv license blablabla 1001 taxable items.

Remind me of the prostitute in Geylang. Selling your souls for money.

#62) khoo hung kim
You’ve got a wonderful perspective on international diplomacy.

Why not name an orchid after Hitler and another after Osama too? The neo-Nazis may come to power after a freak election result in German, or Al Qaeda in Saudi after a regime change?

Never mind the fact that there are conservatively 300,000 ethnic minority refugees (not counting ethnic Burma refugees) fleeing from the military regime’s brutality.
http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/publ/opendoc.pdf?tbl=PUBL&id=449676844

We got to cover all grounds right? Staying together, moving ahead – with the Junta.

#62) Khoo,

There is a difference between Sunshine politics (eg the ones South Korean pursue with their northern brethens) where instead of sanctions and condemnations, you offer a pariah nation some kind of aid and recognition, and according the leader of that nation such a high honor as naming a national flower after him. The former, while taking a more cooperative approach, does not ignore the acts of atrocities the pariah state inflicts on its citizens. The latter is essentially an act of condoning the atrocities. I feel sad for you that you still see the world in terms of east vs west. As for the govt being popularly elected, go read your history books. It was a military coup.

The regime is unrepentant. The last time the previous PM (who was also part of the junta) tried some reforms, he was overthrown and replaced by the current PM. It’s high time we differentiate between the Stalins and the Gorbachevs.

This PM has done nothing for Singapore, or the world to deserve such honor.

This is a summary of an article I came across.

-Singapore is Myanmar’s largest trading partner.
-More than ½ the investments ($1.3 billion) are with Lo Hsing Han, a heroin kingpin.
-Lo chairs Asia World, Burma’s biggest company. His son, Steven Law, runs three branches in Singapore.
-Asia World is suspected of using drug money to fund its operations and set up institutions to facilitate the movement of drugs.
-Law married Singaporean Cecilia Ng, his business partner, in 1996.
-Ng is alleged to use her connection with the Junta to transfer drug money into Singapore.
-Law/Ng founded Kokang Singapore Pte Ltd. In 1993.

Singapore connections

-Kuok Singapore Ltd ., a partner with Asia World in many ventures, was Burma’s largest single real estate investor as of late 1996, with over $650 million invested.
-Kuok Singapore Ltd., Asia World, and the Burmese junta are partners in the luxury Traders Hotel in Myanmar.
-US investigators allege that Singapore’s investments in Burma are opening doors for the drug traffickers, giving them access to banks and financial systems.
-Singapore Technologies built a high-tech cyber-war center in Myanmar. This government-owned company also provides on-site training at Burma’s Defense Ministry complex, passing on its “sophisticated capability” to hundreds of Burmese “secret police” at an institution inside Singapore.
-Singaporean companies have also helped suppress dissent in Burma by supplying the military with arms to use against its own people. The first shipment of guns and ammunition was delivered on October 6, 1988. Throughout the month, hundreds of boxes of mortars, ammunition, and other supplies marked “Allied Ordnance, Singapore” were unloaded from vessels in Rangoon.
The shipments also included rockets made by Chartered Industries of Singapore under license from a Swedish company and sold in violation of an agreement with Sweden requiring authorization for re-exports.
-After 1988, when SLORC massacred hundreds of peaceful, pro-democracy demonstrators in the street, numerous countries responded by suspending aid. Singapore was the first country to come to its rescue.
-Singapore companies have continued to supply Burma’s military, sometimes acting as middlemen for arms from other countries.
“It is highly unlikely that any of these shipments to Burma could have been made without the knowledge and support of the Singapore Government.” Jane’s Intelligence Review
-In 1991, the Junta laundered $400 million through a Singapore bank as down payment for Chinese weapons.

Singapore defends the junta

-“The protection of Singapore’s “concrete and immediate stakes” is essential to the ruling party’s success in maintaining power and the basis of its support for Burma” economist Christopher Lingle
-THE Singapore government has consistently disregarded the gross human rights violations perpetrated by its allies in Burma.
-Singaporean leaders also seem unconcerned about the fact that the Burmese government shut down almost all of Burma’s colleges and universities following student protests in December of 1996 and imprisoned hundreds of students.
-Singapore has made the best computer technology available (to the junta) …Singapore Telecom… provide Burmese businesses and government offices with the ability to set up inter-and intra-corporate communications…
-Aided by Singapore’s support, Burma’s thriving heroin trade has plagued the majority of countries around the globe.

Singapore is not alone

-Following Singapore in the foreign investment lineup are Britain, Thailand and Malaysia, in that order. The US and France follow close behind.
…one Israeli and two British companies signed a contract…

Hope this gives everyone a clearer idea of the government’s action.

Oh currypuff,

What do the west know but create all these lies about Singapore and Burma? Can’t you see that it is all part of the western neo-colonialism agenda? just like how they lied about China’s human rights abuse in Tibet when in actual fact the Tibetians rolled out the red carpet to welcome the Chinese liberators and smashed their own buddhist idols to show solidarity with the Chinese? Don’t you know the monks supposedly massacred by the Junta were in fact caucasians from the Free Masons society dressed up like monks, and they weren’t really shot at with bullets but tranquilizers and when they were unconconsious safely put in first class seats on the first plane back to their countries? Don’t believe the bad evil western neo-colonial propaganda! Let’s not follow them!

To Zefly,

So, we should believe you????

Winston!

believe whatever the state propaganda tells you! Four legs good! Two legs better!!!!

64 Ah Lian
If you are in a position to name an orchid after Hitler, Osama or Mahathir, etc etc please go ahead. I will not condemn you.

65 Zefly
The Myanmar government is not a growing up baby that commits an offence and needs to repent. The present govrnment may have its flaws. But i think all government in the world too has its problems and difficulties. Their own people have to sort out their own problems.
By the way, if i’m a Russian, i’ll be extremely ashamed of Gorbachev for causing the disintegration of Russia. And thankfully China does not have one like him. See the western onslaught during the Beijing Olympics. The west is still trying very hard. The Tibet issue is far from over.

Zefly,

Heh heh, your sense of humour resembles the old Lucky Tan. Hollywood should make a movie about you.
“It’s a bird. No, it’s a plane. No, it’s… ZeeeFLY! Quick, some get me a can of Bygone!”

Khoo Hung Kim

You are a real model citizen. Wonder if you have received a plaque from our government, which you richly deserve.
Perhaps you are right.
Perhaps the junta refused western aid after the cyclone Nargis struck, leaving tens of thousands of Burmese cold and starving and dying of diseases, because western food is so laced with mind controlling chemicals and western blankets are so full of genetically altered fleas that, when bitten, would instantly turn the victim into a bourgeois zombie who would listen only to the commands of a western bureaucrat, that it was far better to just die with dignity and let your floating corpse purify the Irrawaddy Delta, than to accept those thinly disguised western poisons.
Moreover, as claimed by the junta, the Delta is so full of fat, juicy frogs that ordinary Burmese would much rather enjoy a gourmet of barbacued Kermits than suffer the high energy biscuits provided in the so-called aid.
The junta has only the good of the population at heart when they rejected outside help in order to protect Myanmar independence.
I am so enlightened.
May you achieve success in your vendetta against the decadent West.

On a more serious note, I’m glad this article brings to the public’s attention (even if just a small fraction) of our government’s stance with regards to these scourges of humanity.
Cheers.

Why not name the orchid “Thein Sein Orchidectomy”?

http://www.cancer.gov/templates/db_alpha.aspx?CdrID=318820

70 khoo hung kim

If you uphold that the people of foreign countries have to sort out their own problems, just stop giving unsolicited opinions about the problems of my country, Burma. It’s none of your business!

Khoo,

seriously dude, go read up your history. Russia didn’t distintegrate because of Gorbachev. USSR did. USSR didn’t just compose of what is traditionally known as Russia, but the satellite regions around it. And if you’re so supportive of preserving empires, perhaps you should ask our government to request to be part of the once-might British Empire again. You know, back to the days when Chinese and dogs are not allowed into retaurants.

As for your argument about every government has its flaws. Well, Indonesia government has its flaws, Singapore government has its flaws. China’s government has its flaws. Myanmar junta doesn’t fall under these catergories. There are reasons why throughout histories some rulers are called enlightened, some called flawed, and some downright tyrants. Not even the kindest historian will call Nero ‘flawed’.

You, my friend, are sounding like the people who hears everyday their neighbor beating up his wife and not only decide the neighbor and his family has to solve their problems, that the neighbor is merely ‘flawed’ and then invite him over for dinner because he can get them the cheapest deal at the local supermart.

Get over your neo-colonial paranoia already.

Oh, before i forget. Hugs.

73 Myo Mint Maung
Sorry you are offended. But this is the age of the internet. !

74 Zefly
Thanks for all your responses to me. As there is nothing more i can contribute. i shall henceforth shut up

71 currypuff
thanks for your comments. i’m a man with simple needs and am very blessed. i do not need any more plagues of commendation
Cheers to all..

I agree with Joshua(wong) and Khoo.

Many people will undoubtedly choose a confrontational view when engaging the Myanmese government. This will do nothing but drive the Myanmese junta against the wall. Being friven to the wall doesn’t really assist anyone, nor does it help in negotiations.

Many a times, some fool decide to flex their military, economic or social muscle, resulting in nothing but further conflict and a breakdown in bilateral relations. There is no need to elaborate further on this. It happens everywhere.

Zefly is trying to ‘intimidate’ someone eh?

Hehe~

Anyway, Gorbachev isn’t the reason for the disintegration of the USSR. Party politics are. Read beyond the texts. I don’t know why so many books portray our fellow man Gorbachev as the person responsible. He tried to fight and destroy politicking in the highest echelons of the communist party, and failed. Hence the fall of the USSR.

As for Nero, beyond what you read in wikipedia, his main flaw was his paranoia and apprehension of all around him. But what can he do when assasinations were so easy and common at his time?

As for this flower and orchid saga, it isn’t much of an issue. We must look beyond and not just see that a flower is being named after someone we perceive as a tyrant.

As what Khoo had said, yesterday’s friends can become todays enemy, same way today’s enemy can become tomorrow’s friends. Remember that ASEAN is still in its infancy. We are still a far cry from EU. If we want an economic bloc to materialise for the good of all ASEAN-ites, we need to pursue a policy of conciliatory engagement and not hostile diplomacy.

Every country has its own ideology and believes. We cannot impose our believes upon others and impede future relations.

Peace

76 panther

I agree that yesterday’s friends can become today’s enemy, and in the same way today’s enemies can become tomorrow’s friends. Putting that saying in the context of Burmese-Singapore relation, I wonder what Singapore will become to Burma if the latter becomes free and democratic one day, given that PAP will still rule the former at that time. There is only one thing I am sure of: the people of Burma will remember who sided with them and who sided with their oppressors.

panther,

I am posing a hypothetical question here – if, one day, our government comes along and tells you that you have to give up the person you love the most (even though he/she have done nothing wrong) for the common good, and if it can be proven that 100000 people will benefit from you losing that particular person, will you agree to this ideology of ‘for the common good’?

You see, every single argument you have made since eons ago revolve around one main point – for some undefined ‘common good’. The ends justify the means.

It is very intelligent and learned sounding to go around sprouting this wisdom of the common good, but until you can say ‘yes’ to the first question posed, I would urge you to rethink your fascination with pragmatism over values because one day you may find yourself at the wrong end of pragmatism.

Khoo Hung Kim

My appologies to Mr Khoo. Although I strongly disagree with his views, the personal attack is uncalled for. I deeply regret it.
It is just that when writing on this topic, it made me recall the growing anger and frustration I felt when reading about the the goings on in Myanmar after cyclone Nargis struck. Judging from the comments here, I guess I was not alone.
And to read that my country, of all the countries in the world, is actually honouring one of the leaders of this regime… caused my emotions to get the better of me.

Panther

It is my opinoin that naming a flower after a dignitary is not as small a matter as you make it out to be. Especially since it has been named after many visiting heads of state and other dignitaries, including Margaret Thatcher, Princess Diana, Nelson Mandela, Mrs Bush, Princess Masako, etc.

If I were them, I would feel insulted to be associated with Thein Sein. Future VIP visitors would also likely decline this honour, associating this ceremony with the honouring of someone widely detested in the world.

Of course, Singapore has the right to name an orchid after anyone she deems fit. It is the wisdom of the action in this instance that I am questioning.

Zefly,

There is no answer to such a question.

Let me cite an example which ocurred in Chinese history.

A lord once led a rebellion against the emperor. The lord insisted that the emperor execute one of his officials in order to regain his submission. In desperation, the emperor sent the loyal and unfortunate official to the gallows.

But do you think the rebellious lord halted his ambitions? The answer is obvious.

This example is taken during Emperor Jing’s reign in Han China and it ought to answer the question posted by you. There is no definite answer to such a question.

And I don’t think they’ve anything to do with either pragmatism or values. It has to do with both.

=-=

panther,

it was a very simple question. I’m not asking for some universal answer. I’m asking what would you do. Your China story does not even address anything. I’ve already said there is a hypothetical guarantee 100000 people will benefit enormously from the loss of your most beloved.

“It cannot be a case where the leaders just goes through the motion so that things will calm down, and then back to status quo ante. I just had a conversation with Thai Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram three days ago. We were exchanging views and he said, “There can be no going back to status quo ante”. I told him, “I fully agree with you and that must be ASEAN’s position”.

- Foreign Affairs Minister George Yeo, in Parliament.

http://beyondsg.typepad.com/beyondsg/2007/10/replies-by-mini.html

——

In 2007 as well, George Yeo met Thein Sein in Burma to discuss the sale of sand from Burma to Singapore. This was after Malaysia and Indonesia declined to sell sand to us.

18 March 2009, Singapore Botanic Gardens names an orchid in honour of Burmese PM Thein Sein.

Status quo ante.

Dear friends,
Burma’s peaceful pro democracy activists are calling on UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon to secure the release of political prisoners. Stand with them -
Sign the petition

Burmese pro democracy leader and Nobel peace prize winner, Aung San Suu Kyi, has spent 13 years detained by the Burmese military junta. She and thousands of fellow monks and students have been imprisoned for bravely challenging their brutal regime with calls for democracy. This week a glimmer of hope has risen for their release, and it’s time for us to stand with them.

Risking danger to speak out for their jailed friends, Burmese activists this week demanded the release of Aung San Suu Kyi and all political prisoners and called on the world to help. As the global economic crisis makes aid flows more essential, Burma’s generals are becoming more vulnerable to international pressure, but we need a flood of petition signatures to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon to make this a top priority. Follow the link to sign the petition, and forward this email on to make sure she and her fellow prisoners are freed:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/free_burma_political_prisoners

The Burmese organizers have set a goal of 888,888 signatures. The number 8 is powerful in Burmese culture, and the ruling junta is extremely superstitious – such a large and significant number might have a special influence on them. But this issue isn’t in the headlines, so to build our numbers we need to forward this email and persuade our friends to help.

To Zefly,

I read your post and jumped to conclusion too quickly without realising it was written with sarcacism. I’m with you. My apologies : )

The naming of an orchid is a small honour a country the size of ours has to offer other dignitaries. It should not have been cheapened so lightly. Pragmatism drives? Let the Burmese PM visit, show him around, take a ride on our world class MRT, preferably off the peak hours of 6am to 10pm. But to offer a naming? In engaging this character this way, are we also immediately alienating other world leaders? I would not be surprised if officials from other pro-Burma countries would subsequently decline if offered such a gesture in the future.

I can’t wait to see the orchid. I suppose it’s a bastard of some sort. Opps, I meant a hybrid. Is the concoction going to be a saffron-coloured flower with blood red spotting?

[...] · No Comments Singapore’s involvement with Myanmar has been much derided of late, Singapore’s naming of an orchid after PM Thein Sein, Singapore’s economic investments in the country and recently SM Goh’s recent visit to [...]