Monday, March 30, 2009 17:30
TOC Report: Workers’ Party hit by latest spate of resignations
In Andrew Loh, Main Stories, Top Story • 3,204 views • 64 Comments
Andrew Loh with contribution by Choo Zheng Xi
Four party cadres, including two candidates from GE 2006, resigned in the past one week but renewal process is on track, says Organizing Secretary
“Salim has the idealism and passion to pursue what he feels strongly about,” said Mr Yaw Shin Leong, the Workers’ Party Organising Secretary and Mr Salim’s team leader in Ang Mo Kio GRC in the last elections. “I wish him well.”
27 year old Mr Abdul Salim Harun’s resignation from the Workers’ Party is not totally unexpected. Rumours had been going around about his wish to leave the party since last year. His presence at the Singapore Democratic Party’s Hong Lim Park protest, during the IMF/World Bank meeting in September 2006, was believed to have raised some eyebrows within the party.
While his resignation may not affect the party significantly, observers have noted that it might put a spanner in the works for the party’s rejuvenation process, especially since his is not the only resignation since GE 2006. Mr Chia Ti Lik and Mr Goh Meng Seng, both in their 30s and who had been members of the party’s previous Central Executive Committee (CEC), have also since resigned.
When the party elected its new CEC after the elections in 2006, it was touted as a rejuvenation. Party secretary general, Mr Low Thia Khiang, was reported to be “very pleased” with the new and younger CEC. 9 out of the 15 members were below the age of 40 then. “The process of renewal is on track,” Mr Low said to the Straits Times.
Will Mr Salim’s leaving signal further resignations from the party, especially of younger members who might be unhappy with the party’s non-vocal stand? Mr Chia had cited his “frustration” with the party as a reason for his resignation. Mr Goh explained that he left the WP because of “misinformation” put out by the Today newspaper which reported that he had allegedly made a threat against an Internet forummer. He resigned because the report had done damage to “WP’s public image”, he said. (Link) However, it is believed that he too was unhappy with the party. Three more party cadres have also resigned in the past one week, including Mr Salim’s running mate in Ang Mo Kio GRC, Ms Lee Wai Leng.
Part of the process?
The leadership may, however, see such resignations as “norming processes”, as party chairman Ms Sylvia Lim had said when Mr Chia resigned in November 2006. (Link)
Mr Yaw also does not see Mr Salim’s resignation as any kind of setback for the rejuvenation process. “The renewal process was set in motion since 2001,” he said. “[These] resignations won’t set back the process,” he added.
Agreeing with Mr Yaw is Mr Tan Kian Hwee, also a member of the Ang Mo Kio team in 2006. “Resignations have occurred in every party including the PAP – even in the period from 2006 until the present,” he said. “An organisation would be seriously problematic if the ‘loss’ outstrips the ‘gain’, which I do not see [in] the WP’s case.”
Mr Salim himself seems to agree. He told The Online Citizen (TOC) that his resignation “will not affect the party in one way or another.”
Half of the party’s current CEC is below the age of 40, with three new faces in Mr Koh Choong Yong, Ms Lilian Lee and 47-year old Mr Png Eng Huat. Mr Salim was not a member of the current CEC.
The bad news for the party, however, may be the negative publicity these resignations may give – especially when the next general elections is rumoured to be around the corner. After all, resignations of younger members, who are naturally the next generation of leaders for the party, perhaps indicate a restlessness within the organization. The leadership will have to pay more attention to the aspirations of these members if more resignations are to be prevented.
Mr Tan is of the view that the WP, like any other organization, has to consistently reflect on where it can improve. He said, however, that “this would be more in its approach and policy.” He also feels that it is both its leaders and members together that have to remain relevant to the public.
“Personally, I don’t agree that a party’s leadership needs to meet its members’ expectations in areas where it does not meet the people’s expectations,” he added.
Outreach expanding online
Mr Yaw is confident that the party’s plans are in place. “There are people joining the party, and our groundwork continues as we are going about house-to-house visits” he explained. He added that he was heartened that new members have chosen to enter the party even during the “lull periods” between elections.
Mr Yaw also cited the WP’s outreach efforts online, which include Twitter and Facebook. He also noted that “the WP has the largest amount of leadership figures who blog amongst the alternative parties”. He pointed to a new WP online initiative called Hammersspeed which aggregates all articles relating to the WP. [Correction, 31 March 09: The WP has clarified that these online sites are not official party websites.]
The Workers Party was the best-performing opposition party in the last elections. It scored 43.9 per cent in Aljunied GRC and is generally seen as the opposition party with the best hope of breaking the People’s Action Party’s (PAP) monopoly on GRCs.
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64 Comments
anon
anomynous
Just to translate the Chinese message above for all to comprehend.
唉…
Sigh …
亲者痛，
Those who love the party feel painful.
仇者快
Those who hate the party feel happy.
tew ah seow
The WP of today is considered weaker than that when Mr JBJ was the SG. There is not a single heavy weight candidate except Mr Low and Ms Slyvia Lim. So I don’t think WP can have any breakthrough for the coming election.
Pathetic
PAP is on track for another 50% (or more) and 98 % seats (or more) at the next elections!
Opposition quality and quantity is in a pathetic state. I don’t blame anybody , it’s just that the type of “soil” here does not favour it to grow.
Politics here is like using a machine that cannot be replaced or has no spare parts. So even if it function badly, still have to tolerate it more and more.
Ah Choi
Whether WP or SDA , it makes no difference, there are no heavyweight candidates to challenge Pap.
tew ah seow
It is true, you put in Tan Kin Lian or TOC writers, bloggers etc……you can get back your deposit is considered very lucky liao!! So no point fighting the al mighty Pap. You got to work with them.
This is sad news. The WP needs a strong and ruthless leader like LKY. Many people watching the tv telecast when PM Lee asked Low K T whether he should sack Wong K S over the Mas Selamat fiasco were disappointed with Low when he just kept quiet instead of replying forcefully that ‘yes, you should sack him.’
However, Low redeemed himself in the lively debate in parliament over the way the second key was used to withdraw our reserves.
The trouble is many opposition party members want to be ‘Indian Chief’ and not ‘Little Indians’. We have witnessed many of them jumped ship after some disagreement and misunderstanding. Disgruntled members should not form new parties which will not contribute towards solidarity of opposition parties. They must vote for their fellow opposition candidates and not be misled by the PAP to vote for the better PAP candidates. This happened during the 2006 GE.
Ah Choi
Unless you have an opposition leader like Anwar Ibrahim, else better save your $13,500.
tew ah seow
Singaporeans can’t unite, so no matter how you vote also no use. Pap still will win, there is no underlying issues, and moreover oppositions are very weak, dare not talk, the one can talk like Dr Chee and Gandhi ambalan are disqualified, so no point fighting the giant!!
30//3/09
These people who left are not heavy weights and I see them as quarter baked or spent force and WP can do without them.I would not be surprise if they join weaker opposition parties especiallyDR Chee and his gang in SDP who are Running Dogs for those foreign NGS and only know how to take monies from them., and it is very unlikely they join the PAP who has better people than these people who just left the WP
Regards
Andrew Chuah
Roy
It would be best if we maintain our beliefs without resorting to personal attacks. Dr Chee’s method may not go down well with everyone, however, he has sacrifice all for what he believed in. Would our ruling be able to do the same? No, they can’t… not without a lot of money. They will throw their beliefs and principle and join the private sectors or they will turn corrupt.
For all his flaws, Chee remains a clean and pure idealist, — an anti-social one.
David
Apparently, Dr Chee may not be very popular among Singaporeans and other alternative parties. However, he is the one, and only man, that LKY fears the most and his son LHL cannot outspoke him. So the lion needs to constantly protect his cub by locking up the wild dog.
We cannot deny that Dr Chee is a very vocal and a firm person. In fact he can out do Silvia lim and other vocal MPs or NCMPs in parliament if given the chance.
What Dr Chee needs to do is built up his image,. focus fully on local issue and show Singaporeans his true mantle that he is willing to stand along side with Singaporeans and bring this country forward without foreign interventions.
At presence, his mind is a little strayed towards foreigner policies, his strategy is to uproot LEEgime by digging up old stories due to bad blood he had with MM. Such strategy should change and concentrate on peasants bread and butter issue in order to gain people support from the ground. He is undenibaly a clever and well-educated man but he needs to be less hardheaded and more soft hearted to conquer what is unfavourable for him now.
When I read about candidates resigning from any parties. First thing came to mind is this people joined alternative parties out of whims and frenzy without given serious thoughts about their objective of joining the party and a good understanding of the party they joined. Once they have made up their mind, they could ride on the party’s image to help the citizens and put aside any internal differences. Nobody is a failure for losing an election, the only failure is when you decided to quit – easily.
The stake is high for any althernative parties or Singaporeans as well as this country should any alternative party win in GRC and their members start quitting after being entrusted and voted into parliament by Singaporeans. Than it can only goes to show that such member care only for his own interest and not the people interest. Otherwise you cannot blame your enemy for laughing at you and make Singaporean a fool for too believing in alternative party and thus deserve such outcome – neither here or there.
Thus to people out there, do not join any political party if your will and emotion are weak and you know you have the tendency to hop around over little internal disputes. We must all learn to agree to disagree and not treat a party or Singaporean like a guinea pig in your own playground. It doesn’t work that way.
Blur
We had high hopes for the WP but after the 2006 GE, the
WP did not make use of its support to move ahead. They
should have make use of the internet and have regular
comments on issues affecting Singapore and put these on
their blog, perhaps on a weekly basis. It is still not too late
to do that and engage the people out there who are looking
for strong alternatives to the current regime.
Citizen party
Yeah agree with the post that LTK’s response to PM Lee about sacking of WKS was sorrily disappointing.
In debate, its very very basic common sense, and simple strategy – to throw back the question to the who who asks first. Sorry with due respect to LTK, I would have thought he would say, ‘Yes, Mr Lee if I were you I would have sacked him and those senior officers involved.’
This was a damn once-in-a-lifetime easy opportunity to disgrace WKS and his boss.
SIGH.
tew ah seow
If comparing Dr Chee and WP Low, Dr Chee of course is more eloquent. He can argue reasonably well, that is why MM Lee is scare of him, like wise MM Lee is scare of Mr JBJ, so he has to destroy these two figures by all means. But for Mr Low , he is a tame lion, so Pap just let him go.
Ah Choi
Politics is always very very dirty. People like Francis Seow, Tang Liang Hong, capable, heavy weight oppositions… The Pap will find all means to kill them because they are a threat.. voters will be con by the propaganda,, TV, media control by the govt. to put them down, people read ST, so there you are, unfair coverage, out you go !!
Socio-logist
singaporeans are a kiasu and selfish bunch of people…
the reason why so many want to join PAP is because, they have more material benefit to loose by not joining and also they wont have to sacrifice for others…
conversely the reason why Singaporeans dont wanna join the opposition is because they have much to loose and they have to sacrifice everything for the good of the society and country…
until a time come where singaporeans feel they have more to loose materially by not joining the opposition and instead by continuing to support PAP, change is something this country will never be able to smell.
well… lets see if 90 odd singaporeans of the best education, best experience, best backgrounds can step forward with a conviction, resolve and determination to put in place a government better than PAP… that will never happen…
PAP might think that this is a huge strength on its part… but actually as long as this country cant produce 90 odd singaporeans with any ability to organize themselves to make a political change, where is this country to going to find 90 odd singaporeans with the ability to make any other change be it social or whatsoever.. PAP itself will struggle to find capable candidates… this country itself will struggle to see capable intellectuals or heros or leaders…
come to think about it… everyone in the system is at a loss….. a complete loss
Leng Wei Leng
5) Ah Choi on March 30th, 2009 6.57 pm
“Whether WP or SDA , it makes no difference, there are no heavyweight candidates to challenge Pap.”
Do you mean, based on historical evidence and current situation, singapore
is unable to produce any new credible alternative leaders?
well, this might not be totally false statement since there is no new credible candidate that has formed or joined Alternative party since the last election.
Talk is one thing. The reality is Truth.
Mui Mui Soon
6) tew ah seow on March 30th, 2009 7.01 pm
“It is true, you put in Tan Kin Lian or TOC writers, bloggers etc……you can get back your deposit is considered very lucky liao!! So no point fighting the al mighty Pap. You got to work with them.”
“YOU GOT TO WORK WITH THEM” hmmm….. what does this mean???
You mean they should join the PAP??? I would not be surprised if.
What's New?
With both Low Thia Kiang & Sylvia Lim voting FOR the recent amendments of the Film Act, DESPITE the recommendations of AIMS, and which Act is clearly detrimental to the free flow of information in video form, & Sylvia previously talked about having then 4 yrs to raise questions in Parliament, what do Singaporeans need so called Opposition?
This issue of the RELEVANCE of “Opposition” as regards the WP & SDA has been aired over the blogoshpere over many years and NOTHING new has emerged.
morepapthanpap
wah so many negative comments on wp suddenly……. sdp people at work again……. pap happy happy laugh to the bank….. got sdp people do their work for them…… lol
Forever
Like many earlier comments, my respect for Low TK has gone after I’ve seen him chicken out of debate with LHL.
How can we you expect him to lead WP to fight for Sporean?? His courage is gone, maybe time for retirement.
Act Smart
Some opp is waiting for the opportunity, once the old man is not around and the baby boy has no pillar to lean on, then they will strike. It is no point to use an egg to strike the stone now as the heavy weight is still around.
Margerete
Why is it that when PAP members resign, its call a renewal, but when an opposition party member resign, it is reported in a very negative light like “so and so party hit by resignation..”
if i want to read Straits Times, I will go and read Straits Times.
Ah Choi
WP Low is not a national leader, he is confined to Hougang only. The real alternative leader still non existence. So it is very difficult for WP to expand. As for Mr Chiam See Tong, he is reluctant to recruit new leaders for self renewal. So you see the scenerio is still dominated by PAP. As for Mr Tan Kin Lian, he is not a political leader, he needs 100,000 signatures, he is not sincere, and he won’t be a good president either not to mention credible MP. He has to think of his family, wife etc…. he is not like Dr Chee, who can sacrifice his life for the sake of democracy.His children are still young, and yet he can contribute to opposition politics, but unfortunately he is too good and MM Lee has to nail him down.
Lido ship renewo
I feel that the alternative party is also showing Leadership renewal.
I mean this member left means this position is being replaced soon. So, there is technically speaking a form of renewal.
so easy. anyone can have renewal.
But the main question is will the main be renewed?
I renewed my phone contract. this is also called renewal waht.
tokselehon
Resignation as political party member is normal in Singapore.One go, many would come.And is natural that it is a form of Party renewal.
One thing for sure we would see new talented person in the process.
Party would also can not die mah just becos some or many party members resign.
From response 1) to 26), you guys do not worry so much as all the Opposition Party is still intact, no harm only slight injury that would heel in no time.
All we need to observe now is the day lky demise, that’s all. And soon you’ll see the several hundred good credible people of the Great Singapore would join forces with the Opposition which can gel with their needs and wants.
The day would come soon and prevail after all.
Have a good day, ladies and gentlemen whom I respect most.
I feel that the alternative party is also showing Leadership renewal.
I mean this member left means this position is being replaced soon. So, there is technically speaking a form of renewal.
so easy. anyone can have renewal.
But the main question is will the main be renewed?
I renewed my phone contract. this is also called renewal waht.
Sorry… forgot to say great post – can’t wait to read your next one!
insider65
Agree with you at post 3 tew ah seow that the Hammer is a JBJ vehicle like SDP is a Dr CSJ vehicle.The leaders have a cult-like status which is important for any opposition or alternative party.You need leadership but leadership that always looks at renewal which unfortunately JBJ and Dr CSJ negelcted.CSJ still has the opportunity.
Dr Chee is an intelligent individual. David in post 12 I agree with you whole heatedly.Dr Chee probably should arrive in the post LKY period.For Singapore to flourish, it needs a Dr Chee.But a Dr Chee leading a strong team.Dr Chee has to find his team.LKY knows this very well and that is why he mentioned the SDP in his speech to the NUS Alumni early last week.He knows theoretically his PAP has officially run out of ideas.
This increasing of population just to boost figures in the short run will have detrimental effects in the long run.Can you imagine Singapore having 10 million people by 2015-2020?
In fact, Singapore needs at least 300 men and women in the mold of Dr Chee and JBJ which can include capable people like Sylvia Lim, Tan Kim Lian but not Low Thia Khiang.And another 3000 capable people in the membership pool. I shall not call it Cadre as sounds like the Communist Party.They are out there but like Socio-Logist in post 17 said that they are KIASU and only think of themselves for now I hope.
But we will find them. How? Just get all your friends and family involved.Get all your talented friends and family to join the alternative parties.Or just get them to go visit them and have a look and make an informed decision.If they all don’t fit, form a New Party or join the newer part, the Reform Party.And then work in coalitions.
Its like the TOC, Wayang Party, Singapore Enquirer, Brotherhood, etc all coming together.We are in this for Singapore the country and the nation and not for LKY and his Party.
The WP and SDA are becoming irrelevant in at a macroscopic level for Singapore’s future. The SDP has its role on more humanistic issues which is exposing the lack of a conscience of the PAP. The SDP is doing a fantastic job by educating not just Singaporeans but the World.
Leng Wei Leng in Post 18, you are right.If you see more individuals like Tan Kim Lian and Leong Sze Hian joining the new Reform Party or forming a new Party, this will be a new beginning which is in the right step.If you see more Tan Kim Lians and Leong Sze Hians ’stepping up’, trust me, more Singaporeans will join the fold.300 is the magic number.
There are a lot of Singaporeans out there who had enough of the PAP.I believe that finding the 300 core men and the 3000 membership is a possibility.We all got a part to play for Singapore’s future.I have got mine and you all have yours.Just continue to encourage these people who are wearing their hearts on their sleeves.Just remember that the PAP are losing more and more good members and we have to attract these good people to the right side.Show them the right path and let them come walk with us.
The FACT is undisputable- no one can challenge
hallo #29,
“In fact, Singapore needs at least 300 men and women in the mold of Dr Chee and JBJ which can include capable people like Sylvia Lim, Tan Kim Lian but not Low Thia Khiang”
So, could you let me know honestly that
is it true that
Singapore currently, and for the last 40 years , not capable of producing a strong Alternative Party leader good enough to challen the incumben?
I hope all readers take up this question. chuus.
Minority Report « Chemical Generation Singapore
[...] to challenge the PAP’s dominance in fielding Malay candidates. His resignation was “not unexpected“ as he was supposedly open to a more aggressive advocacy, something contrary to WP’s [...]
Seng Yi
“So, could you let me know honestly that
is it true that
Singapore currently, and for the last 40 years , not capable of producing a strong Alternative Party leader good enough to challen the incumben?”
The fear learned by older generations has been more or less passed down to those borned in 60s and 70s and they are about 40 to 50-year old now. The younger generations borned after 80s will slowly help to exorcise this ghost.
Some people love to cultivate fear by giving you the stick and unfortunately it makes them powerful while the rest become trapped into this uncertainty (which has become what we call learned helplessness).
To #32
“The younger generations borned after 80s will slowly help to exorcise this ghost.”
may i suggest that you meant you hope this to be the case but there is no evidence to suggest it could happen this way?
For example, the last E, i thought oh my lord, look at the turnout, look at the issues, the alternative party sure would win much more. It turned out not true, and I still could not believe this till today! why ? i am not sure at all.
With the resources avail, its not diff for them to engage.
already they have been.
only when the fat lady sings.
The FACT is undisputable- no one can challenge
So, 32) SengYi, could i say you actually agree with my suspicion ?
Alternator is Illusion trick on the minds
Sg :
1. called a 1st world
2. people said to study well and i dun really mean regurjitate hor. literacy high.
3. people said to be talented despite 60-70 % jobs require FT.
4. tip top talents also got. its said.
5. Universities, like quite solid also wor. according to the news.
So, I ask myself, why could not produce a single credible talent that CAN challenge head to head with the ruling p?p?
why 81:3 ? Based on democracy, is it not that if can afford, the country should have at least a strong and credible opposition that CAN take over if need be?
So what happen ?
I must say education system number 1.
I must say everyone smart smart and highly educated. well travelled (to asia).
The 5Cs life. The Walls of concrete jungle. The congestion and ratrace.The Kia’isms.
Where is the Thesis on this mental?
#22) Forever
‘ Like many earlier comments, my respect for Low TK has gone after I’ve seen him chicken out of debate with LHL. ‘
………………………………………………..
This is how the media helped the PAP by showing the negative side of the opposition. If it is the other way round, I am very sure they will self-censor the visual.
#24) Margerete
‘Why is it that when PAP members resign, its call a renewal, but when an opposition party member resign, it is reported in a very negative light like “so and so party hit by resignation..”’
……………………………………………………………….
PAP members do not resign. They step down or retire from their political posts so that new and younger members can stand for elections and take over. When opposition party members resign, it is like playing musical chairs. No wonder opposition parties collectively becomes a laughing stock.
PAP is not ‘plray, plray’. You make big mistake, you do not just resign, you must act like a gentleman and commit sui_ _ _ _.
insider65
To all and especially poster 30) The FACT is undisputable- no one can challenge and poster 33) To #32
You both guys asked ‘ So, could you let me know honestly that
is it true that Singapore currently, and for the last 40 years , not capable of producing a strong Alternative Party leader good enough to challen the incumben?’
Singapore produced them.JBJ being one and Dr Chee being the other.And a host of others, especially the heroes who stood on the Worker’s Party ticket before Low Thia Khiang became secretary general of Worker’s Party. And if you look at the last elections and how James Gomez was targeted you know that here was another guy who was certainly cabinet material.These guys are loyal sons of Singapore and could have got Singapore out of this current quagmire.But we would never know as you know what the PAP and all its machinery did to them.
Over the 50 years of PAP hegemony, a lot of talented people have left Singapore or have decided not to serve the country despite loving it as much because of the PAP.This is another serious issue altogether.Just do a background check on all those who have migrated and you will know that these people are top class and top quality who are certainly more talented than the current 2nd tier foreign talent.
Would you, a talented Singaporean serve the country knowing that there is this party called the PAP looking over your shoulder and waiting for you to fall or destroy you? I have asked many talented people this question and all have declined because they know that the PAP will destroy them.I have even spoken to NMPs on a personal basis.Just look at Tan Kim Lian and his reluctance to join a Party when he is a fantastic candidate for an alternative voice in Government.
The NMPs have disappointed me as they have taken the easy undemocratic route of being ’supposedly’ opposing voices of reason in Parliament through the backdoor route.Similar to the well paid ‘extras’ in the GRC teams of the PAP who just make up numbers to intimidate legitimate democracy.
The PAP has created this problem and cannot even attract the best leaders into its party because these individuals know that what the PAP is doing is not right.It attacks their conscience and self belief mechanisms. Singapore the country or nation state will fail in time to come when loyal sons and daughters do not identify with the only acceptable party PAP.
For that, I salute all the Opposition and Alternative Politicians out there.You guys are true heroes of Singapore who are willing to sacrifice your all for the love of your country. And not for the money and prestige that comes for being in the PAP party.Honestly, just take a good hard look at your MPs and their Grassroots leaders.Engage them in macroeconomic topics or social issues and see their uneasiness in response.The PM is a good case in example when people put forward relevant questions to him and he simply starts off by laughing it off. This is immaturity or arrogance whichever way you perceive it.
So I hope all of us responsible Singaporeans continue supporting the Alternative Parties or Opposition Parties as they need it.They are going against something which is infallible.
The four party cadres may have quit but I hope they do not quit politics for good.Its a numbers game my fellow Singaporeans.We will help them build their numbers.Just today I manage to convince a group of Singaporeans.And they are now clued in on alternative news.And they are already thanking me.And they have promised to tell their family and friends as well.Its a Grassroots movement of sorts.We got to continue working for the well being of Singapore our country and not to be servants for these clueless Elites.
Soon the Elite together with the Foreigners will outnumber the Ordinary Singaporeans.What then will we do?Who will be our voices?Who will represent us? Don’t be surprised if you see a PRC, Indian, Filipino, European becoming an MP or being in Cabinet in the near future.Today we see many ‘Ex-Malaysians’ who never did National Service in the cabinet.The immigrant is always thankful to the PAP.It is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th Generation Singaporean local that suffers.
Please engage me and tell me why I am wrong because I believe at this current state with the PAP in power, Singapore will fail within 25 years.This is my most pessimistic assessment.
tew ah seow
All leaders from Pap are good leaders, all leaders from alternative parties are considered bad leaders, as simple as that. They can say anything, they can even say black is white colour.
True singaporean.
To insider65 on April 1st, 2009 1.03 am
I totally agree with you, if the locally born singaporean who are capable and love singapore must stand up and serve an alternative party for the good of future singapore. Agree with what insider65 said “Don’t be surprised if you see a PRC,
Indian, Filipino, European becoming an MP or being in Cabinet in the near future” or cld be future PM. It wld be sad to see this happen.
word that has 2 mouths
37) insider65 on April 1st, 2009 1.03 am
I understand what you said.
But, with due respect, could it be in a little way you may not understand what #30 was saying?
From my understanding of #30’s message, I feel that he is saying and also acknowledged that JBJ and Chee are capable opponents.
But being capable does not mean having the capability to establish a strong alternative. A strong alternative is one that can take over. In this space it is expected to have extremely great obstacles. And a capable alternative leader is one that can achieve this. LTK is able to achieve somethings. But is still far away from the definition of a strong alternative leader with a strong team that can take over as long as the people choose them.
This I feel is what he meant by sg has not produced a single strong enough alternative leader to take over. This includes ABILITY to overcome ALL Obstacles.
peace
insider65
Good afternoon poster 40) word that has 2 mouths
You are right in a little way that I did not understand poster #30. I did not understand the meaning of ‘chuus’.What is ‘chuus’?Can someone please enlighten me.
I also could not get the message that he was trying to imply that he ‘also acknowledged that JBJ and Chee are capable opponents.’ as you have put it.I see no mention of this in poster #30 commentary.
Maybe poster #30 could be more specific or could respond to my argument in post #29 and #37.
I concur with you that in this unique space called Singapore there are many great obstacles put forth by the PAP for any semblance of an alternative party from forming or from credible candidates coming forward to the detriment of Singapore’s future.
LTK has achieved a lot and SL is doing a fantastic job.But we need 300 SLs and a membership pool of 3000 at least and it is possible and it is happening as we speak.I am so glad that we have people like Tan Kim Lian and Leong Sze Hian.Me, my family and friends will support these fine gentlemen.
Everyday I meet 10 new people and I believe I can get 3000 people to hear me out every year.And I am sure there are 100’s if not 1000’s of people like me in Singapore who love Singapore to bits and see it crumbling before our very eyes.My old kaki’s, their children, their friends are all getting educated across the spectrum.And this is healthy for the future of Singapore.Because out of my pool of 3000 and the exterior pool of 30000 I am sure we can find good honorable people to lead this country forward.
My only fear is that if this alternative party does not take shape in the near future, Singapore will be part of a bigger power beyond the control of ordinary Singaporeans.It was only 50 odd years ago that we were still British servants.Today we are PAP servants.
You seem to know poster #30 very well from his short little paragraph.I am very impressed.If you, and poster #30 believe that the Alternative leaders and parties need ‘ABILITY to overcome ALL obstacles’ put forth by the PAP, god bless Singapore the country city state.It will become a hotel for even the Singaporeans like MM has put it.A hotel for Singapore’s ‘Last of the Mohicans’.
mike
#36 & #39,
yes, my sentiment is the same for all this while. my sense of belong to this beloved singapore is getting too diluted. i am concern and very worry about the future if this propaganda is being going on to obvious. it is so obvious that old man is in control and the sad thing is..what is by the time he is gone? what happen next??
any clue, anyone??
mike
agreed with #12 & #17
insider65
Hi Mike and fellow Singaporeans..
I have the inkling feeling that the PAP machinery is deliberately getting the non PAP compliant Singaporeans to leave and basically create a Master-Servant class.Masters being the elites, their families and friends and not forgetting the cadre members.Servants being the ordinary and helpless Singaporeans and the New Foreigners.
I remember in an interview last year when MM mentioned about creating a core central area of Singapore into a Monaco of sorts.Looks like the 90% of us ‘Heartlanders’ are here to only defend the interests of these few elites.I am not sure like you what I am defending these days.Its extremely cloudy.
My neighbor attended a PAP Youth Forum a couple of weeks back and remarked that one of their cadre, a university economist advised them to buy another property overseas and also pushed ahead the increase of the population of Singapore.He was ‘lost’ at this new direction.Like I mentioned in earlier posts, even the Grassroots is shaking.They have numbers but its a mixed bag in there.
The PAP is very aware that the ground sentiments are horrible.Every Ordinary Singaporean is affected especially with whats happening these past two years.We all know of it least someone who is going through a hard time.I have gotten calls from old friends and kakis who need help.Totally unheard of in my lifetime as these individuals are capable independent people.These are desperate times.Who do these people turn to?
I have a theory whats going to happen next but I don’t even want to think about it.I am so afraid that I will be right.So till a few more factors take place I will keep hush for now.I am hoping for a miracle about this 300 or more capable and responsible new Singaporeans coming into the picture.It will be a long process, probably taking 3-4 elections at least.Starting with the upcoming one.I am very certain one will be called soon as the weekday walkabouts have commenced.
I managed to find time to sieve through all the Parliamentary videos on CNA before they are taken down.Am quite impressed with the performance of the NMPs.Why don’t they join an Alternative Party?Don’t they know they are doing Singaporeans and True Democracy a great disservice in the long run?I feel that they are there on their own self interests and self promotion.
What worries more is the absence of dialogue or deliberation of the Ministers in the PMO office.You hardly hear a squeak from them at all during parliament.I would expect them to justify the passing of the new acts, bills, etc.Why are they so quiet about the real issues?
I am equally as clueless as you and my fellow Singaporeans.Everything is kept in the dark and veiled in secrecy.It is indeed scary.Today’s issue is quickly forgotten.Thank god for these guys on the internet who have given us the channels and means to ask the pertinent questions.
What is our next step?Shall we engage the leaders directly through Facebook or should we all start paying a visit to the Meet the People sessions or attend Dialogue sessions to seek clarification.The Reach program has not worked or neither the ST forums.I have tried and tested all these feedback channels for years to no avail.Even simple things need to go through a work group or think group, etc. It is time for direct engagement for the well being of Singapore.
I think there is nothing to fear as we may be the ones who can provide solutions to our current mess.Whether they work with us or against us is entirely up to them.But we can look back at these times in the not too distant future and say that we tried.
Victor
Personally I think WP is too quiet since GE2006. Almost did not hear anything from WP about the good deeds they do, instead keep hearing the bashing from ST about LTK.
WP should be more vocal, so to reach out to the wider audience. They should openlly express their concerns using the new media, like blog, website, video etc. It gives me an impression that WP just there to make up the numbers, collect the taxpayer money, and occasionally shooting some random comments here and there.
my blunt but honest
I believe WP’s strategy is not effective as it should or could be.
Its effective only to a small neglible extent, sadly.
OBSTACLE : if you CANNOT OVERCOME it, that is what it will always remain.
So, as long as Alternative leaders/brains/aides/party members CANNOT overcome this or whatever Obstacle(s), that means only 2 things:
1. Wait for the majority to suddenly support them.
2. Wait for someone to…..
I feel that to get votes, alternative party Must go out and WIN IT by winning the hearts. If they HOPE people to give votes to them, that could mean they may never win for many decades. I never see any Alternative party member going around leh. Why? Obstacle? like the rain too many? ha haha
If you can conquer the obstacles, you win. Else nil. That is my take.
cheers.
To post #33)
“33) To #32 on March 31st, 2009 10.51 pm
For example, the last E, i thought oh my lord, look at the turnout, look at the issues, the alternative party sure would win much more. It turned out not true, and I still could not believe this till today! why ? i am not sure at all.”
Just your frame of looking at it. a lot may not yet see the need for alternative party (balance) yet as an important built-in mechanism.
As more and more people turn politically saavy and more in tune with the bigger pictures of national matters and affairs, they will come to know that it is necessary to have the checking mechanism.
Is uniqueness limited to the dot
47) To post #33) on April 1st, 2009 7.03 pm
“As more and more people turn politically saavy and more in tune with the bigger pictures of national matters and affairs”
By the above, I suspect you are thinking the same as me that there is a problem of APATHY in this so-called 1st world .
I wonder if mr TKL agrees that many have an indifferent attitude towards their own national affairs?
If so, why is it like this ? What is the CAUSE for this EFFECT, if any?
Why when it comes to political thingies, singaporean seem unique compared the the rest of the world? Or is it my understooding is not correct?
Come challen me leh. The truth can only come out when we challen.
#44) insider65
‘……………………………..the NMPs.Why don’t they join an Alternative Party?………………… I feel that they are there on their own self interests and self promotion.’
‘………………………………… because I believe at this current state with the PAP in power, Singapore will fail within 25 years.This is my most pessimistic assessment.’
………………………………………………..
If I were given a licence to operate a lucrative bus company or a lottery business or any monopoly and become a multi-millionaire I also would work as a running dog for the PAP. The late Mr David Marshal accused the Straits Times for being a running dog of the PAP government. I believe 99.9% of the Singaporeans would think of their self interests first and the country’s survival second.
Even if you failed as a cabinet minister you would be rewarded with a highly paid job in one of the many GLCs. In fact, one ex-minister earned more than double what he would get as a minister. An ex-civil servant CEO received $20 million bonus. What do you get fighting for the opposition? Bankruptcy, sacked from NTUC, called a liar and a gangster, no promotion, no govt contracts.
Are our ministers worth so much? According to another web-site, a recent ex-minister is now earning only $22,000.00 a month in a private company – 10% of his previous minister’s pay. Remove all these inflated wages and rewards and the PAP will lose many supporters.
Mr Kishore Mahubani in his Think Tank article, ‘Can Singapore fail?’ which was published in the ST failed to suggest that Singapore might fail owing to the PAP becoming corrupt and inefficient in the future. A good example of such failure is Argentina, which was one of the ten richest country of the world at the beginning of the last century.
How to insure Singapore’s survival in the future? LKY has the wrong answer.
Watanaporn
Wah..this place feels like a forum sia ;)
Tax-payer
To Insider 65…I agree with u 100%%%%%%%%
AT least these people walk the talk! We should give credit to them :)
albert
My take is that our opposition are so mild, too mild to even dare to confront the PAP face to face. Their existance means really nothing to most of us singaporean, beside being made joke of again and again. Who is LTK and slyvia Lim? One speak hokkien and one speak English, but inside the essence is the same – dun dare to fight, kiasu, kiasi.
Our politician are so unique in this world. Can only survive in SG. If we outsource our politics, surely these people will lose their job.
insider65
Victor I do agree that WP has been too quiet since 2006.
Todays ST 2 April 2009) reported that the PAP inducts Two minsters, PAP’s George Yeo paying tributes.You have PAP news everyday in the ST till the run up of the upcoming elections.I don’t blame them as it is a numbers game.
Elections preparation start right after the outcome of the last.I am encouraged that they are using new platforms like Blogs, Facebook and Twitter to a better effect than the PAP.But internet penetration to these platforms generate views of only a hundred or so.Look at this topic for example.Only 2000 views.If there is going to be any change or awareness, it should generate a healthy 200000 views at least.That’s only 6 odd % of the general population.
The WP should boost its membership across the spectrum.These 4 resignations are telling.I only recognize 2 candidates from the WP vehile, LTK and SL and the public can probably recall 2 at the most.
I find it hard to recollect all the members who contested in the Ang Mo Kio GRC seat in 2006. I do understand that they are doing house visits and walkabouts on a regular basis but could there be other forms of medium they can use to reach to Singapore as a whole and not a segment in the East country?
The WP should hold more forums at least at a quarterly or monthly basis at its HQ for the public as introductory sessions to pool in more members.The other parties do not have the luxury to do that.
A forum on HOTA or Films Act should have been conducted these past few months.It gives an opportunity for the public who are affected by the passing of these bills to turn up and discuss with the WP’s two Parliamentarians.
I personally have tried to engage MPs at MPS but to no avail.The Grassroots leaders rarely give you access.You are screened early.It is perplexing that the pertinent issues are not discussable at MPS sessions.This is a good opportunity for the WP to address these grievances of SIngaporeans who have genuine issues that affect a majority.
I am not a proponent of the GRC system and Ethnic Minority representation.I believe that MPs should be voted in on thier own merit.This tool dispels the Meritocracy principle espoused profoundly on many occasions by the PAP.
But I believe that WP in my own personal observation is alienating the Minority vote.It has no capable or credible Minority candidates I can think of.WP was probably the first truly multicultural party after the PAP.It sent a Minority candidate to the polls and finally broke the duck in 1981.\
The WP has to find its multiculturalism from within.Unfortunately it has lagged in this aspect most recently.I am not really sure how the Minority vote but I won’t be surprised that the fence sitters may cast the PAP instead.
When Mr Abdul Salim Harun came abroad to the WP ticket in the last elections, I was happy as a Singaporean.Because this is healthy for multiculturalism.I was hoping for more Haruns or other Ethnic Minorities to join the WP.
If you look at the Executive Council, there is only one, Mr Rahizan Bin Yacoob.Kudos to Mr Rahizan but we need more, much much more.has the WP actually tried walking around Little India and Geylang Seria?Engaged PKMS or the Association of Muslim Professionals or re-engage Mr Jufri Mahmood on an advisory capacity?
I have respect for the PAP in the sense that it is the only multicultural party in Singapore.The Ethnic Minorities are small, probably less than 20% of the electorate these days due to migration and immigration.The Malays are only 13% of the population when it used to be 20% odd, the Indians around 7-8% and the others probably 1% or less.These are your important swing votes, just look at the recent US Presidential Elections.
I am truly sorry that Mr Abdul Salim Harun had to leave.The work is cut out for WP.The longer it maintains that it wants to be the ‘check and balance’ party the further we are from true democracy.The only multi cultural party I see today is SDP.And that is why I believe the SDP is the party for the future post LKY-LHL-LHY-HC-Li Hongyi-4th Generation-5th Generation period.
The WP has to step up on its efforts and act fast.The PAP has thrown the first gauntlet with the appointment of Mrs Lim Hwee Hua as the first woman minister.Aljunied GRC will be re-drawn and re-mastered that even a Miss Sylvia Lim led team will not win.Even a LTK/SL combo will not suffice.The WP needs more than that.The WP has only two notable candidates, it needs another 8-13 at least of the same ilk.Even the ‘undemocratically elected’ NMPs are becoming more relevant.
JD
SDP a multicultural party?? I think their biggest problem is self gratification in a world of illusion which explains why they are where they are now.
JD
Everytime there is a poll in TOC pitting SDP against WP the first will be trailing behind. If they think magnifying their presence with more nicknames and more comments lambasting WP will change anything, good luck. You got to win real people over. More importantly their bigger battle is with PAP, WP is just ’small fish’.
angry_one
S’poreans only have themselves to blame for today’s state of affairs. They allow the PAP to abuse their power and turn a blind eye, hoping to make a little gain for their own. Most sinkees are still peasants. They may be PhDs and doctors, but they think like peasants. Peasants can never form a democratic society. The PAP knows this and continues to use cheap handouts to win votes every election. They actively chase the smart people away so no one else is left to oppose them. Those who are smart, and support the PAP, will be richly rewarded. Others will all be slaves.
insider65
Funny that I am replying to each and every moniker or nickname and I am not getting an elicit response.
poster 54 and 55 JD) My mistake,I meant that the SDP is the only ‘other’ multicultural party other than the PAP.Why do I say this?
Simple.I am old but I can relate to the young.I was in Orchard over the weekend and decided to do a random poll’.I have been doing polls for years.For my professional work and also for my own personal curiosity about how people behave. Thankfully I had two kakis to help.We thoroughly enjoyed this exercise as it was more interaction and educating of the youth.
If you are looking for an online poll which can be indicative go to Mr Tan Kim Lian’s website.He asks the pertinant questions.
Surprisingly the Youth (between 18-30) responded well without prejudice.Not all are as apathetic as you think. I just posed to them that the General Elections are around the corner.I did not have a control question set but this interaction over two days was an eye opener.
A lot of them recognise the work of the SDP.They can identify Dr Chee in a whim.Only the older youth ( who are probably working) know who LTK and SL are.SL is more popular.I targeted the minority youth more which is a bit more difficult as they are few and far between.But on my observation, the Malay Youth (below 25) are Dr Chee fans.
Dr Chee has an identity with the youth probably because he is an idealist.The Youth are dreamers at this Stage.But I was a bit bias that I interacted more with Service Staff.
And this more shocking.A lot of Singaporean youngsters are working when they should be schooling.I probed and its a sorry state.Most of thier parents have lost thier jobs or have seen a wage decrease of sorts.Loads of Tertiary students are working to put themselves through school.And these kids eagerly want an alternative voice.
The alternative voice is Dr Chee for now.I for one believe that a balance is possible.A Party that is in the middle ground of the WP and the SDP.I do not mention the other parties as the Youth never brought these parties up.
A new Party is needed or the Reform Party has to fill this void.Or a coalition like our Northern Neighbours.
I enjoy talking to the youth.They are much wiser than I was at thier age.My only worry is that they will migrate because of the reality that will hit them in the near future. With the changing demographic of more Chinese youths who are used to a one party state, the opposition or alternative parties only have the coming election to build some sort of inroads.That is why I agree with MM that 25 years is all it takes.
Is it possible to get Singapore migrants like Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong to address Singaporeans on why they migrated for educational purposes.Like put a video on youtube or write blogs.I am sure the people who voted for them before or wanted to vote for them want to know the truth.
Migration is a choice but there can be other solutions.Maybe more Singapores who have migrated should come forth publicly to educate the sanctity of voting.
And poster 56) angry one could the peasant thinking have anything to do with our genes?The PAP is a eugenics and genetics spouting party.This is probably the chief reason I can never identify with it.The meritocracy they preach is all baloney.I have met too many good people from extremely humble backgrounds who contribute more to society than these PAP members, cadre, leaders, etc.Ordinary Singaporean Superheroes.
I am off in a couple of hours.See you people next week.Thanks TOC for giving me this space.I will continue engaging Singaporeans here and on my short trip.And will report as promised.
JD
I can’t link ‘multiculturalism’ with having a few Malay youths to support and some small survey sampling. Anyway anyone can claim to have done a street survey. The last time someone told me he did a street survey that SDP had the best support among youths, the process he described sounded flawed.
The best street survey is the elections, and the order of score is as follows: PAP, WP, SDA, SDP. That is not going to change in the next elections, but if SDP bucks up it can change in 3 elections.
dev
Today, a worker party member said more than 15 people had resigned from Hougang Town Council.
HTC
#59 dev,think u must have heard wrongly. I got a reliable source from the CEC said 50..not 15.
#59 & #60
What is happening at Hougang Town Council? Can TOC report more on this?
Conqueror
Who to blame but Singaporeans themselves. If they aren’t adventurous enough to give WP or SDP a chance to hold a 51% majority or a 49% minority, “a few good men” will just go away and mind their own businesses. Why risk the law suits to make themselves poorer while the rest who are Kia Sees (always found complaining but do not vote for them) keep getting a chance to watch a free-to-air drama by the wayside? I always felt these heroes are the courageous lot – A Few Good Men.
Standing up for the people on bended knees : Sgpolitics.net
[...] this year in March, at least four other WP members also resigned from the party, including Mr Abdul Salim Harun and Ms Lee Wai Leng, both of whom had stood in Ang [...]
Standing up for the people on bended knees : Ng E-Jay’s domain
[...] this year in March, at least four other WP members also resigned from the party, including Mr Abdul Salim Harun and Ms Lee Wai Leng, both of whom had stood in Ang [...]
唉…亲者痛，仇者快