This is not a national dispute and should not upset the balance and tenor of our open, tolerant and secular society. Neither should Aware members allow these disagreements to become a vehicle for views on contentious, divisive issues to be pushed aggressively. This would polarise our society and have a very adverse effect on our social fabric.
Mrs Lim Hwee Hua, Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office
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well..she’s a full pledged minister right now..she can easily step in (more so as a woman) and stop the catfight! Not a national dispute? At least we want to know her stand as a woman as well as a minister!
Hmmmm..”should not upset the balance and tenor of our open, TOLERANT and SECULAR society”…Neither should Aware members allow these disagreements to become a VEHICLE for views on CONTENTIOUS, DIVISIVE issues to be pushed AGGRESSIVELY”.
I wonder which side she’s on….
sounds like a warning to me.
It is certainly a warning…. if it gets even worst, what the govt would do is put whoever is responsible to task for upsetting Singapore’s balance. But I like this very much. If the govt were to ever put any of them to task with whatever method, it’s going to backfire on the govt. Both the new & old will probably hit back and the govt. This is something the govt cannot get involved in.
It’s wise that the govt does not want to see an NGO to push any form of divisive issue aggressively. And neither should we-kudos to the govt statement.
Yes, sound like a warning. Telling the players don’t push too hard. The best opportunity to end this is settle everything at EOGM. The worst thing that can happen is the fight continue after EOGM with law suit and more action groups formed fighting each other drawing more and more people into it.
2) theonlinecitizen on April 25th, 2009 11.44 am Hmmmm..”should not upset the balance and tenor of our open, TOLERANT and SECULAR society”…Neither should Aware members allow these disagreements to become a VEHICLE for views on CONTENTIOUS, DIVISIVE issues to be pushed AGGRESSIVELY”.
I wonder which side she’s on….
===========================
No extermists type, and keep the peace always, the moderate ways.
Interesting to see Lim Hwee Hua speaking up on this issue. She’s just been appointed a minister – without portfolio. Some rumours say that she may get to be in charge of women’s issues.
I wonder what her take is on the members of the new Aware.
I think it has passed the point where both parties sit down and talk…. Certainly Minister Lim or Fu can help mediate…
The PMO can assign Lim Hwee Hua to be Matriarch of AWARE.
To offer more choices to AWARE members, the PMO should include HC or Mrs.Goh , either as patron or stand-in Matriarch.
Surely PM Lee and SM Goh are agreeable, right ?
so what to do next minister
i am a non-christian. i have many christian friends but they are not like this extreme kind where their messianic zeal scares me. especially when their members `take over’ a secular group to advance their objectives. the buddhists, the muslims and others are watching like a hawk in evident discomfort. for as chua mui hoong pointed out in the ST – `such religious militancy will have an impact on the body politic’.
Ms Lim Hwee Hua is right in warning them not to push their `intolerant’ agenda too far beyond AWARE’s boundaries as there will be a backlash from others who do not subscribe to their religious views.
Is the new exco of Aware aware that there are other religious groups in our multi-religion Singapore who do not sure their prolife antihomo anti-abortion stance?
Why is it that the new exco are all chinese and all christians? Where is the representation from other races and religions? Is this fair?
theonlinecitizen, are you feeling guilty? You read too much into her statement. She is on NOBODY’S side. How about on your side? the old women club side. Does that make you happy?
The lady minister , one of the few christians in the cabinet, is in my opinion an exemplary person who leads well and tackles difficult issues head on and hands on. Singapore is indeed fortunate to have her and I hope her comments are taken seriously by both old and new Aware committee members.
It will be great that in addition to her 2nd Finance Minister portfolio, that she can also apply her talents to Woman Issues, Community Development, and perhaps to add a charistmatic and an important ladies’ touch to Foreign Affairs. It will be quite a waste for her to be closeted in the PMO along with so many other Ministers.
Why does the old guard in losing a simple battle feel so diminished? Their works, their cause, their past battles, their knowledge, their exposures – arent these assets in-build in your system by now in having run it for 24 years. Are you so easily weary over a simple name-sake called AWARE ? or Give it up and set up something else with your fire-in-belly march forward withcourage attitute. Arent these the virutes you taught women or are you a lousy loser and a walk-over defeatist? Get up and fight back back in a winning way. .
What is lost is gone. MOVE on. the new committee did nothing wrong expect to spring a surprise on you. BUT why are you so helpless after so many years, you have some regular kaki to play hardballs with – havent you ? If not, you simply werent doing your job properly then..
MOVE ON… be a good loser and behave women. I shall watch with a can of beer.
It’s not a national dispute.
It’s a national issue.
Every month I read about the lack of integrity in people, businesses and organizations. What is wrong with these people? How did they get to how they think today?
AWARE is not a good organisation after all and it should be disbanded earlier. I assume the human rights group regardless of sex should be formed instead. It is high time to close AWARE and move on with human rights issue in line with the UNO. Much has been done for women in the past 50 years and we have female minister in PMO office is evident of woman movement.
Of course the government cannot take sides. Do you know how power a church is? They can make and break mediacorp talent show stars.
these clowns are giving us moderate christians a bad name. shame on them. the government clamps down hard on religious extremists isn’t it? they did it with jeemah islamiyah, why are they not acting on this one? what a disgrace
The operative word in her statement is ‘SECULAR’.
I hope all concerned will take note.
Wrong answer. ‘IS’ a national dispute now. there’s always religious zealots around. just that the peasants are tolerating the evangelists. but in places like jakarta, people are not tolerating the abomination of religious zealots. which explains the christmas bombings annually.
It is not a national dispute yet.
But the way i see things are going, we can easily go down that path.
3 government leaders speaking on the same topic cannot be all bark and no bite. I believe they are dropping very subtle hints to both groups for a quick resolution to the conflict before the entire social fabric is torn by it.
A few emails confirm that church machinery has been utilised for the assault on AWARE. (See: http://wayangparty.com/?p=8185) Make no mistake, this is an organised assault on a secular organisation. If islamic extremists are singled out as criminals, the same must also apply to those from all religions.
I am calling for the resignation of Josie and Co, together with a public apology.
From the start, their actions have done nothing but damaged the reputation of AWARE. Now that the public focus is on them, their actions will also reflect badly on even Christian moderates.
If they do not back off, there is every right for the authorities to act to preserve social harmony.
Plen – If the old guard have fire-in-belly, why does it mean that they should give up? Since they have values which are antithetical to the new guard, even if they form a new organisation, it merely means that the wars will continue.
Hwee Hua’s comment reflects that she understands democracy. It sounds neutral enough. What is this understanding of democracy she has demonstrated? Democracy is a fine line between consensus building and open warfare. It is a very tricky thing where on one hand it can be a wonderful way of making policy that is open, inclusive and takes the best ideas from everywhere. On the other hand it can be destructive and divisive, like how Malaysia and Thailand are acting when they have their first taste of democracy, like how in Washington, partisanship and posturing have replaced proper insight and proper policy making.
It is clear TOC is on the side of toc (the old committee) Minister Lim is neutral and sure can help to mediate.
I think it is to the credit of the founding members and past presidents that there are
people interested in running AWARE. They must have done something right for new members to come in. No need i think for past presidents eg dr Soin to come to the defence of the old team. She would be on higher moral ground if she remains neutral.
AWARE’s comprehensive sexuality guide says “it is okay to have anal sex, just use a condom”… on the Straits Times today.
It’s doesn’t take a Christian to see that this is so wrong to teach our kids… you guys are so spun up to the Christian conspiracy you fail to see what is wrong here.
I do not want my daughter to be taught in schools that being lesbian is normal and that she should embrace and experience it. I do not want my son to be told by his friend that it is okay to poke his asshole as long as a condom is used.
What’s wrong with you guys?
“I do not want my daughter to be taught in schools that being lesbian is normal and that she should embrace and experience it. I do not want my son to be told by his friend that it is okay to poke his asshole as long as a condom is used.”
They are taught tolerance, and it is also a way to reach out to teens who may be not be heterosexual but who are unable to broach their concerns without feeling uncomfortable.
The choice is up to our kids. Telling them a particular behavior is normal is not the same as advertising it in branding language and exhorting them to actually change their sexuality.
Fact of life : everyone goes through a phase where they are unsure of their sexuality. What needs to be taught is for them to feel comfortable with who they are, and how to be responsible with it.
WeC at 24),
In case you don’t know, straight couples have anal sex too, and its perfectly legal. So is it wrong? And if they decide to try, should they use condoms or not?
I do not want my daughter to be taught in schools that being ignorant and/or hateful of other sexualities is normal and that she should embrace and experience it. I do not want my son to be told by his friend that it is not okay to poke any willing person’s asshole with a condom if both parties are willing, consenting adults doing it privately, but it is okay to do it with a girl.
What’s wrong with you guys?
You might as well ban violent games and movies from being sold at all in Singapore – ban them from the internet, too! – because they would essentially promote far worse things than homosexual intercourse. If they actually promote anything, that is.
I really can’t see where you all come from about “children’s minds being degraded”. Your kids are so weak-minded and vulnerable meh. 14-15 years old still cannot understand isit. Wow, homosexual kids in anti-homosexual families must be damn strong leh, they earlier than that must already deal with conflicting facts and self-hate and got nobody to stand up for them some more!
AWARE’s comprehensive sexuality guide says “it is okay to have anal sex, just use a condom”… on the Straits Times today.
It’s doesn’t take a Christian to see that this is so wrong to teach our kids… you guys are so spun up to the Christian conspiracy you fail to see what is wrong here.
I do not want my daughter to be taught in schools that being lesbian is normal and that she should embrace and experience it. I do not want my son to be told by his friend that it is okay to poke his asshole as long as a condom is used.
What’s wrong with you guys?
I am against teaching teaching gay or lebian lifestyle in school. However, it is MOE responsibiity to vet through all teaching material before they are allowed in classroom. What are the rationale for approving such material in school? Why is MOE silent on this issue?
I am equally against religious organisation to infiltrate any organisation to advance its course. If we allow the christian group to infiltrate an secular society, very soon we will have the buddist and muslim groups doing likewise to push their agenda.
It is far more dangerous to argue against anyone who use FAITH to get out of any objective argument or debate. Faith = believing in something without needing any concrete and objective proof or evidence.
It is transparent and crystal clear that the new exco members are using AWARE to further their devious agenda in promoting, imposing and enforcing their beliefs in Christianity on UNAWARE women by taking advantage of their are vulnerability and confusion. This could be possible, as the weak and helpless women who are seeking advice and shelter for their problems have lost their direction in life and could be conveniently guided into the Christian direction by the new exco. This is intolerable and the chances of this happening is high, due to the unfair balance of the new members on this AWARE panel – all are from Church of Our Saviour
“AWARE has lost focus”- by new exco, by any definition is a direct clash to their beliefs that homosexuality is a sin, hence there is a need to “fix” this clash in their beliefs by instigating a hostile takeover of AWARE.
Do note that the issues of homosexuality and prostitution will not evaporate completely even if the new exco take over the whole country and turned the whole city into a Christian land.
The pastor of Church of Our Saviour made obvious loopholes in his speech which stressed that the nation must not cross the line drawn by God indicated the hidden motive to take over AWARE to make sure that the line is not crossed.
I have reasons to believe that new exco members are making use of AWARE to recruit more religion members to expand the width of their current church. This was done so by consolidating votes from their own members from Church of Our Saviour and stapling their own members on the new panel of AWARE. It was said that the new exco does not know that the new members consist of people from Church of Our Saviour when it was proven that the pastor has gathered all the women to support the new exco. In this way, when AWARE finally consist purely of people from Church of Our Saviour, it will be easier to expand their church base. Is this one of your ulterior motive, COOS?
“If there is any disagreement with the new AWARE, please form your own group – new exco”
I get it. If that’s the case, why don’t the people from COOS stay in their own church or form a new group of discrimination against anything that clashes with Christianity, instead of trying to get a piece of AWARE
Is lying one of the worst sin?Only the new exco and the pastors know whether they did lie in any way, upon the take-over of AWARE. Tell this on the face of God if you must.
It is again, totally transparent that their religion is against the sin of homosexuality and they see the need use AWARE to drive their disgust and discrimination against the minority. Using the limp excuse of the old guard promoting homosexuality and blaming the old members of using school campaigns to teach children that homosexuality is “neutral”, goes to show that their hidden agenda has came to light.
Prostitution is a sin as well and why our red-light district is still in operation? After this saga of blaming the old guard of promoting homosexuality, is the new exco going to do a public demonstration and violent protesting against MM Lee to force him to eliminate prostitution completely because it clashes with their Christian beliefs?
If by any chance that any of the new exco’s children turned to homosexuality, it is not the fault of anybody but the parents themselves. It goes to show that parents do not spend enough time teaching the child from the right and wrong things because the parents spent too much time discriminating against the minority, promoting and imposing their beliefs on the majorities. It is the core responsibilities of the parents to educate their children on various sex issues and not to push the blame on external circumstances. If education from the school about neutral views on homosexuality was the main concern of the new exco, why don’t they quit AWARE and do home-schooling for their own children instead of blaming the school for teaching the netural things? Then they will have no one else to blame if their children turns out badly.
The righteous side has already given the new exco the answers to their hidden agenda, ulterior motive to promote Christianity – it is intolerable and despicable.
To: 29) Antibitchfight on April 27th, 2009 6.47 pm
Just bcos they are christian doesnt mean they are intolerable and despicable.
Just be objective and let the elected AWARE Exco do their job and judge them 6 to 12 months down the road.
BTW, I am not a christian.
Cheers.
to 30)
they should have stopped hitler at munich.
period.
A recent comment by Mr Balakrishnan, when taken at the surface level, maintains the Government’s stand to be above the affray, and to urge a peaceful resolution to the matter.
Scratch under the surface and a different picture emerges.
“We don’t want our religious organisation to be damaged or compromised by the hurly—burly of politicking that happens on the ground”
Translation: Could the fundamentalists please shut the f up and not smear the good name of Christians everywhere.
“build a rainbow coalition”
Translation: we favour the side who stands for being more encompassing and inclusive (that’s the old guard for those of you who haven’t figured that out.) Also, the rainbow is a symbol of gay pride.
Couldn’t be more obvious.
To Victor:
The fundamentalist christians are not intolerable and despicable. Their hidden agenda and vicious motives to promote and impose christianity on BOTH the minority and majorities ARE intolerable and despicable.
The new exco should not get away or more vulnerable and confused women will fall into their christian trap unknowningly.
There is no need to give them 6-12 months as their ulterior motives are obvious enough for all to see. Giving them more time will only allow them to achieve their main objectives to promote their religion.
I was, for one, was being taunted repeatedly by christian extremists to turn to Christ and praise The Lord, I find these group of extremists horrible and nauseating. This AWARE saga instigated by the christian extremists will once again relive my nightmare of being taunted by the extremists.
I can’t find a better word to describe the new panel – They are simply a group of christian extremists who is going to create social and religion unrest in the near future with their God-says-no, it-is-a-sin. Try telling MM Lee that, won’t you, the extremists?
my point of view.
…. is that our govt should not step in, if it does, other political parties will see it as an opportunistic attempt to spread its influence. its sad cos i think the minister Lim is more than capable to handle that issue.
kudos to the govt to having keeps its distance from an NGO’s dispute. religiously secular & apolitical. that should be the way. step in only when the situation warrants.
the govt is taking a cautious measured approach, Aware is now a circus. the last thing our (in fact which would) govt want is to be part of it.
ideally, if most former Exco members from Aware’s foundation days to date turn up in person to lend their weight & voices on this issue. it will hold a sway to the votes cast that very day, May 2.
do not deny just the physical presence of them just being there!! ^.^
*let the voice of reason prevail!!
I am a Christian but I would like to stress that a Christian should not advance his or her cause through the practice of “ulterior motive” even the cause is for kingdom work on earth. A Christian should not only believe in Jesus but should also “follow HIS WAY”. Would you find Jesus conspiring behind the scene with His 12 disciples to oust the Pharisees or anyone not following His Way? The use of Ulterior Motive to further your cause is a sin! This is an excellent topic for any
Christian small group discussion. Shame on those Christians who use ulterior motive as the means of achieving good!
Today I read that the new “new guards” had never conspired, nor held any private meetings and planned strategies to oust the old guards , etc.” prior to the March 29 AGM. It .simply happened that those who turned up at the AGM all
had the same purpose. I would like the “new guards” to at least confirmed this publicly instead of through third parties. If this were done in the first place all these hot discussions today would be unnecessary. However, by not willing to deny publicly it showed their cowardness and created suspicion .