Thanks, Stephanie.
Beautifully put, sums up my thoughts exactly.

My sentiment exactly! Very beautifully written. Well done!

Dear Stephanie,

This is so beautifully put. I will be printing it so that I can show it around in my law firm.

Thanks.

Mark Goh

Leaders We Respect inspire with Gentle Strength. They understand that power is a gift to be used responsibly, not a commodity they can rob from others who have served to earn it.

Brilliantly put.

And this is what the new exco does not understand – being so full of themselves…

Wonderful! Brilliant! I must hang it around in my law office to remind Jocie, Maureen and and the others.

I like this line “Leaders We Respect demonstrate Humility”. This is definitely what the peasants can understand. Great work.

Based on what you defiine, the new exco members fail on all counts and
I absolutely agreed.
I hope they bow their heads and retreat.

Hi Stephanie,

It’s a pity your artilce is not addressed to the Singapore Government, which I find them lacking in most aspects.

Today, I am no longer convinced that the old AWARE is totally clueless. As the days go by, I get more and more convinced the some gays have made used of the old AWARE to promote their own agenda.

As such, I believe that the takeover was actually a reaction, rather than a stand-alone hostile action. Below is a more detailed discussion of my theory.

http://wherebearsroamfree.blogspot.com/2009/04/so-aware-was-front-for-promotion-of-gay.html

Beautifully said.

The whole bunch is seriously lacking in all of the above.

How can they live a full life; that they have to resort to this type of behavior. Is this way they are taught by their elders, mentors, parents or whatever they belief in.

what agenda are you hiding solo bear? your theory lacks ingenuity.
i believe homosexuality is used as a distraction to lure public attention away from the true agenda. which is to take over key positions in the government and enjoy true political power. all of you are just pawns on their chess boards. pathetic.

Leaders We Respect are Trustworthy. FAIL. Look at TT Durai.

Leaders We Respect demonstrate Humility. FAIL. Look at Tan Yong Soon.

Leaders We Respect are Accountable. FAIL. Look at the town councils when they handle toxic assets within their investment portfolios.

Leaders We Respect treat others with Dignity. FAIL. Look at ME. Do I give a hoot what the peasants think? Do I even care if you’re unemployed? I only treat money with dignity.

Leaders We Respect inspire with Gentle Strength. FAIL. Look at my mum. She’s muscular and brute strength is essential for take aways, no, takeovers.

Leaders We Respect are Fair and Inclusive. FAIL. Our group only consists of overseas educated chinese folks.

with love, the mole girl.

“Leaders We Respect inspire with Gentle Strength. ”

2 Tim 1:7 NKJV – For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Power without Love and a Sound Mind is Useless. Whatever It is, Don’t Operate Out of Fear.

Hi Solo Bear 11.49 pm

I have a problem with your blog post.

If you have not noticed, sexual experimenting and confusion over one’s sexual orientation is rift in secondary schools. I am still surprised that some of my classmates were gay (and i didn’t even know) and i believe that some all girls schools have girls that are pretty open about being butch or lesbians. So we can’t hide from the fact that homosexuality exists and just ignore it. I would rather teenagers learn about it in a controlled environment then learn it from each other and the internet.

And most importantly i don’t think most guys (i don’t know about you… maybe you are confused and in denial)would jump at the opportunity of playing with each other’s dicks after a couple of sessions of sex education. I hope you didn’t want to play with a stranger’s dick after watch brokeback mountain or something because your logic is worrying me.

Last of all isn’t it sad that you have to post up a link to your blog on popular sites (pushing some controversial stand) because the sad fact is you want the attention.

I’m sorry man but after reading your blog i think you deserve a wake up call. Its the internet and i can’t stop you from being an ass hole but i can jolly well post a comment here

Cheerios

A quote from Buddha
“First, rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words;
Second, rely on the teachings, not on the personality of the teacher;
Third, rely on real wisdom, not superficial interpretation;
And fourth, rely on the essence of your pure Wisdom Mind, not on judgmental perceptions.”

May all the accursed souls find their redemptions soon because there’s always karma in real life, no matter which religion you are. Whatever you do, you represent your faith.

Hmm I agree with most of this article, except on two points:

1) Leaders We Respect Demonstrate Humility.

As I read through the articles in the local press, I can’t help but see that there is a likelihood that Jocelyn and her team were more of pawns in her mother-in-law’s game. While they were very new to AWARE, her mother-in-law most clearly wasn’t. Prof Thio (Sr) was one of the founding members of AWARE, along with Constance Singam and Co. If you really look at the AWARE Saga, it looks more like an engineered coup ‘de tat. And Coup De Tats are only successful when they have a backer who knows how the system works.

So while Prof Thio can be said to be arrogant in other ways, she has “served first”.

2) Leaders We Respect are Fair and Inclusive.

With all due respect, I believe the implication on the AWARE Exco is unfair. “Fair and Inclusive” does not and should not be taken to imply “permissive”. One of the characteristics of leadership is the capability to make decisions by oneself. At least, the new AWARE Exco are opinionated.

Next, the issue of homosexuality is typically a very inflammatory issue, stoked by two powerful lobbies who try to bend inconclusive scientific and academic literature carried out by partisan researchers into the public domain of fact.

Although I am uncomfortable with the way in which the new Exco initiated their takeover, nonetheless I believe that they were justified to do so. Flame me if you may, but the core purpose of AWARE – as a feminist group – is achieving gender equality. Promoting Women’s Welfare has become a red herring because of the manner in which our political system under the PAP operates: “civil” versus “civic”.

As it stands, the status of gays (male homosexuals) is as hotly contested as the issue of lesbians (female homosexuals). Evangelicals do not adopt a privileged standing on gays over lesbians. So campaigning for the Pink Lobby should be done under generic pink groups like Alex Au’s People Like Us, rather than a feminist organization like AWARE.

As far as it goes, both gays and lesbians are equally discriminated – for those who want to put it that way – so there is no gender equality to fight for. There was a valid fear that AWARE might become so telescoped into the Lesbian Cause that it might neglect other causes, and even alienate the more traditionalist women that it served.

Please remember: AWARE is a Feminist Group, not a Welfare Association.

2 Tim 1:7 NKJV – For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Why is he allowed to quote? is TOC partial to bibles?

Even my kid can tell the Fear is faked. So much excuses in the name of religion. Tsk/

To ARIX at #14: “There was a valid fear that AWARE might become so telescoped into the Lesbian Cause that it might neglect other causes, and even alienate the more traditionalist women that it served.”

Arix, if so, is there a valid fear that under the new exco, AWARE might become so telescoped into the Religious Extremist cause that it might neglect other causes, and even alienate women that it served?

self praise no praise
good try
TOC and TOC

ai ya let lky come out.

if he can solve all this problem,

which i believe most likely can,

then we no need to argue anymore.

or can he? or will he say something? or do something?

we will see on next sat.

@Arix

Hi,

Thio Su Mien is not a founding member of AWARE. please.

The manner in which the takeover was orchestrated is definitely not justifiable and should certainly not be the way forward for civil society. if you disagree, you do not take over, you debate. And certainly from the debate that has arose in the aftermath of the takeover, we can see that not everyone share the sentiments of this new exco. When you take over in such a manner you impose a very particularistic perspective on an entire organization instead of working through debate to achieve a moderation or even a variety of views. So, no, regardless of motive, the way this takeover was done is not in any way justifiable.

The analogy or example of gays and lesbians being equally discriminated hence negating the issue of gender equality is so so so so flawed. lets look at the issue of foreign workers. should we not help domestic workers, who are predominantly female, because foreign construction workers, predominantly male, are equally not privileged? Of course not.

AWARE is about gender equality. This is viewed thru the different situations, circumstances and environment that different women are in. this could be discrimination because of lack of education, racism, sexuality differences and economic backgrounds. yes lesbians are women too. men cant be lesbians. so it makes it a very “female” issue if someone is gonna get discriminated for it.

And AWARE is diverse and open enough. if you think that it is spending too much time in the lesbian cause, speak up! join, bring in volunteers so that you can staff other areas so that it wont be neglected. Engage in debates so that you create a better world view.

Stephanie seems to have conveniently twist and use the term Leadership to hide and distract others from the faults of the old guards:

Leaders We Respect are Trustworthy. – The old guards used of veiled activities to promote lesbianism and homosexuality are called trustworthy? Or had the old guards betrayed the trust of ordinary man or woman in the street in organizing such veiled activities (thanks to the new guards, this is now known)?

Leaders We Respect demonstrate Humility. – So, the old guards can do a better job now after learning and gaining wisdom on how to openly promote and support lesbianism and homosexuality. What next, legalizing marriage of the same sex for Singapore?

Leaders We Respect are Accountable. – Can the old guards be held accountable for the fact they had trampled on the core beliefs and va3dlues of those who are against lesbianism and homosexuality, much as those who are for it?

Leaders We Respect treat others with Dignity. – And what about staff who don’t behave with respects for the elected new leaders and work like they are working for an organization, and not for individuals (like as though they exist only and for the benefits of the old guards only)? And what about the old guards who support staff in revolting against the new leadership?? Was that a dignified way for them to show displeasure of the newly and democratically elected new leaders?

Leaders We Respect inspire with Gentle Strength. – Earn what respect, and from who? From those who wants to promote lesbianism and homosexuality as normal? What about those who disagrees?

Leaders We Respect are Fair and Inclusive. – Then why is the old guard imposing on those who are not supportive of lesbianism and homosexuality through their veiled activities in supporting such organizations and individuals?? Did they consider the majority feelings of those who believe in family values and that sexual preference with the same sex is NOT normal?

Last but not least, can TOC also openly declared their stand on supporting lesbianism and homosexuality for the benefits of readers who had supported it all this while, so that we can also understand the inclination of its Editors, as it seems they had taken side and are supporting the old guards in this issue!

this new Exco are leaders with stealthy followers, maybe they are planning another coup elsewhere too?

to the new Exco…
Q: what kind of leaders are they?
A: rebel leaders! lol.

>.<

From yawningbread:

Attempt at character assassination of Constance Singam?

http://ybsampler1.blogspot.com/2009/04/attempt-at-character-assassination-of.html

Your definition of “leader” is incomplete. Ms Thio and her team cannot be considered leaders anymore. They are wielders of great resources, true, and are intelligent people. That says nothing about their integrity and wisdom. Their recent words and actions do. Volumes.

I’d rather see children comfortable with their sexuality than to see them comfortable with the idea that lying is acceptable. Much more harm to society, not just ours, has been caused by mendacity than by deviant sexuality. Strange that the idea of deviant sexuality should bring so much more distaste to people than the sound of a false word.

I do not wish for children to be taught that their individual views are the golden standard and everyone else must come around – or else. That is teaching intolerance.

I fear the day our children accept that vicious and militant tactics are appropriate arguments. That is setting the stage for bitter discord and unresolvable disputes in society. In that direction lie terrorist attacks and suicide bombings.

Leaders We Respect ,,, take defeat in stride!

Hillary lost to Obama … she did not cry foul play.

McCain lost to Obama… He did not cry foul play too. Yet someone in Singapore is already contemplating of calling in the army in the event of freak election while the freak election has not actually happened.

Leaders we respect do not abuse their wealth and power for their own personal gain. Unfortunately some lawyers fail on that aspect.

Because Hillary and Obama played fair and square. See how religion can make you lose your rationale.

obama is a nice guy. TSM is not. how can compare

we know the bible too

John 8:7
But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.

Matthew 7:1
Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

Romans 2:1
Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

#21
Hillary is not a nice lady…can be very catty….but she kept her dignity after losing to Obama! In fact…they are in the same team now! The ancient guards of AWARE should be rational and get on with their lives!

Arix #14,

1) So?

2) Firstly, I can agree with M.Ong in that many parents are concerned and homosexuality is a very charged issue. Thio and her crew should have a voice in discussions but not THE voice in decreeing what’s right or wrong; Thio’s beef is that the old AWARE’s position is “neutral”.

As I mentioned in another post if they are accusing the old AWARE of being pro-homosexuality then isn’t being anti-homosexuality just the flip side of the same coin?

Is being “inclusive” really the same as being “permissive”?

I have questions: If Dr. Thio was monitoring the CSE programes run by AWARE for over a year….because of the complaints of some parents, ……….. I wonder , with all her zeal and zest, why she didnt raise it up with MOE? Why she didnt challenge the issue with AWARE then in the media……? If she really believed that the CSE promoted gay sexual behaviour amongst children, why did she do nothing for so long if she had really cared about the parents and the children?

Anyone got ideas?

@ BACK TO FAMILY VALUES

This is a point that many people just cannot seem to get, so let me repeat it wholesale:

There is a subtle but important difference between “promoting GLBTs” and “choosing not to discriminate against GLBTs, and accepting them as human beings no different from us”.

On the facts, AWARE has never “promoted” GLBTs. In fact the GLBTs had complained that AWARE didn’t push for them. This is all a matter of public record.

As a matter of principle, AWARE chose not to discriminate against GLBTs, and to just live and let live. It would be hypocritical any other way — can you imagine a women’s rights NGO discriminating against women who happen to be lesbian? Or while we’re at it, women who choose to abort if they are raped, or teenagers who cannot raise a child, or physically abused women who want to leave their husbands even though doing so is not “pro-family”?

But, in the minds of Thio Su Mien and her fellowship, AWARE’s tolerance and refusal to discriminate against GLBTs was somehow equated with “promoting” some mythical “gay agenda”.

That is a huge logical leap, don’t you agree?

Actually, the thio-led crazy women raising the CSE issue is a fantastic opportunity. We should all write to the MOE demanding an explanation and asking for an official rebuttal. The statement slandered not just AWARE but the 30 schools’ administrators as well as the MOE and they – the slanderers- should offer a public apology and retraction if their claims are found to be wrong and malicious. This the S’pore govt we are talking about- they shoud conform to type in this one matter and therefore take the COOS clique to court, if they refuse to comply.

Actually if I am not wrong, Focus on the Family also conduct workshops in our schools. Maybe it’s time to review their syllabus too?
Didn’t one middle tier JC got itself into trouble for inviting an overtly xtian group to give some kind of talk to a mixed religion group of students?

I remembered when I was a school boy, we have this compulsory sex workshop conducted by some external vendor. I clearly remembered the word god mentioned a few times, and one poor boy was “volunteered” by the speaker to take a vow of abstinence in front of all of us. His face was all red :P

It’s understandable that the gay and lesbian activists are up in arms over the AWARE issue. Looks like they are furious, and the reason is quite clear to see.

AWARE is the only “respectable” organisation which they have managed to infiltrate over the years. And for AWARE to come up with a sex education program (approved by MOE) that teaches that “Homosexuality is perfectly normal” is truly a great achievement. What better way than such a program to churn out lots and lots of young & vulnerable gays and lesbians.

Glad that there are courageous leaders who dared to stand up against such infiltration of our school students. Seems that the MOE custodians have been asleep.

I got no confidence in these new team. They are a bunch of liars and they need to be forced out into the open by the press before admitting their true agenda. They now mentioned their future plan..blah blah…no race, no discrmination, no religon etc.Cannot be trusted anymore…The more they declare, the more i doubt them. Those toxic companies should consider employing them…maybe their company can recover faster.

“34) mirax on April 26th, 2009 8.49 pm
Actually, the thio-led crazy women raising the CSE issue is a fantastic opportunity. We should all write to the MOE demanding an explanation and asking for an official rebuttal. The statement slandered not just AWARE but the 30 schools’ administrators as well as the MOE …… ”

I can’t agree with you more. Everybody should write to MOE and the 30 schools and demand an explanation and ask for an official rebuttal. Can’t wait to hear what they have to say. In fact I would like to hear them say in unison “HOMOSEXUALITY IS PERFECTLY NORMAL”.

Courageous women? Pui. More like religious terrorists. All the creationism bullshit. I am glad MOE always place emphasis on Science to open the eyes of singaporean students so that they will not be waylaid by some outlandish unproven theory. In fact, last week a pastor even had to have organ transplant. Is god working? Obviously no. Maybe some people say too many evil things about praying to rocks and burning joss papers is polluting the earth. Now they are being punished.

You all are right. I think TSM and gang have gone too far to point of being overly obssessive. Should I counsel their souls?

courageous leaders?

- not being upfront about their intentions.
- lying about not knowing one another among the new team. but have the same mentor?
- share the values of the older team, but the media has proven otherwise.
- are inclusive.
- Josie Lau a reluctant leader? but is ever unwilling to step down graciously?
- uses hostile tactics to get their way
- using a gay issue to distract the masses of their ugly act, calculated to milk a public outrage to their advantage to hold onto Aware’s leadership positions

if they are aware of the gay issue when they first did, they would have already swung into action. take over Aware, why not just take over MOE? lol.

@ Back to Family Values

It’s sad to know parents who value the education of their children like yourself would advocate the telling of lies to achieve this.

While I agree that the new ex-co could have done some things better, I do appreciate that they have surfaced issues that should concern every parent.

Wonder who really “hijacked” AWARE?
Did the old exco take advantage of its position to begin pushing the pro-gay pro-lesbian agenda?
The fact that it forms just a small segment of their programs is not the point. Everything starts small and if not nipped in the bud, it will grow simply because too many of us are either unaware or too complacent. It should never be there in the first place.

There are other platforms and their agendas are clear. We can choose to disagree. AWARE needs to rediscover its roots and champion causes that affect more or most of the women in Singapore.

The other concern is why was AWARE’s CSE not vetted by either MOE or MCYS before being allowed in schools?
How about the principals and teachers in charge of such programs? What happened? Our school-going children are of an impressionable age and sometimes are not able to discern for themselves the correctness of what is communicated. As it is, they are bombarded almost daily through various media, through sight and sound, multiple messages, many of which contain dubious values. If we do not guard our values as parents and teachers, then who will?
There are higher expectations of teaching institutions who should be not be focusing on just academic performance but also promoting the right values.

#33 the irony

I agree with your argument, but I take issue with the fact that the old AWARE had stealthily included their views of LGBT in their CSE syllabues which is targeted at teens in schools…they do not have the rights to do so, as not all will agree with their stand.

The old guards at AWARE should have respects for the parents, their children and the school system and not believe that they can “think” or “act” on their behalf. By doing so, these old guards had already imposed their views about LGBT to anyone attending their courses.

# 42 Buddhist

Strange that you call yourself a Buddhist but it is so easy to see through your hypocrisy.

I’m telling lies…common, the views and stand of AWARE with regards to LGBT is already featured in their CSE for schools.

On the other hand, it’s sad to know parents who don’t value the education of their children like yourself as you do not even bother about the lies that were already being perpetuated by the old guards to achieve their hidden agenda!

This is an open letter from a concerned parent to MOE.

I believe that there are more cases of lesbianism and female ’sexual experiments’ in all girls school than in mixed schools. It is clear that all-girls school is a breeding ground for lesbianism. I would therefore propose that MOE shut-down these schools and return to basics.

How did the NEW EXCO lied to get in? They were recruited by the OLD EXCO, nominated by the OLD EXCO and elected according to the constitution written by the OLD EXCO.

And before the NEW EXCO had a chance to say anything, they got hantam’d by the OLD EXCO which then mounted an inflammatory campaign through The Straits Times.

When members of the NEW EXCO provided a response to the media, all they asked was some time to work though the consolidation of current programs which were too diverse, stretching resources they do not have, before providing a response. Instead of letting them prepare their materials so that we can hear them out, their intentions get speculated upon, their families gets profiled and published in detail like public criminals in some countries I shall not mention here, get death threats, even before we know what their actual responses and intentions are. Looks like a witchhunt and a lot of misinformation to me.

The above are the salient facts the media has presented, the rest are details.

For anyone to have credibility, please refrain from personal opinions, look at the facts available (not some hearsay), make an informed assessment, asked what is the context, put forth your arguments justifying your logic with facts that everyone can see and verify. There are simply too much mumbo jumbo and personal attacks for the online forums to have any credibility. I am glad TOC recognised this and courageously decided to moderate their forums so that ideas are nurtured and quality of discussion can be improved. Their reporting on the Aware saga has become more factual, balanced and non-inflammatory. This shows checks and balances are at work. Way to go! Well done!

That said, I have read enough on this saga and look forward to the outcome of the EOGM. I don’t expect the mumbo jumbo and misinformation to stop. So, carry on…

MOE should be the one to answer why CSE is allowed in schools if parents have problem with its content.

If a jihad group sponsored a Jihad Manual and MOE allowed that the content to be taught in school, who is responsible to explain to the public the rationale for doing so?

#44 Back to Family Values

You mentioned “the fact that the old AWARE had stealthily included their views of LGBT in their CSE syllabues which is targeted at teens in schools…”

Other commentators, who are more rabid, are screaming that this is a pro-gay view that encourages students to experiment with gay sex and some even are yelling that it specifically advocates anal intercourse.

Can you point out to me where in the syllabus does it say all this, or at least, the first point (ie including their views of LGBT)? I ask for specific references, chapter and verse.

Also, assuming that indeed this is all true, does this justify the sneaky underhand tactics of infiltrating a civic organisation, not disclosing their true agenda or their objections to the syllabus whether within AWARE or to the public at large, and then mounting a coup? Yes, I know its legal.

And does it justify their lying to Singapore on national TV?

46) Duh on April 27th, 2009 12.38 pm

while they didn’t lie to get in (since they didn’t need to),
they did lie on a few occasions.
1) they refused to clarify their agenda until the reporters did background checks and unearthed their strongly anti-gay stand
- deceit of omission, if not a lie
2) they claimed that they did not know each other before the coup
- and after investigation (again) it turns out that they come from the SAME church and have the SAME mentor. another lie? sure seems like it.

These people will only divulge the whole truth when forced to. Can you trust them? I certainly wouldn’t.

another thing. Do not make the mistake of lumping together whoever threatened Josie and co with others who civilly oppose the new Exco.
Criminals are criminals. those who sent death threats have been reported and that’s that.
You’re not swaying anyone with your tearful cries of “pity me! pity me! I’m being bullied!”, Josie.

enough? or do you require a clearer picture of just how morally deficient the new Exco is?

I am just wondering what will be the reactions of the new AWARE exco when their children or their family members are born with homo or lesbian inclinations?

My nephew who has homo inclination is loved by his Christian parents. We as uncles and aunties accept him as he is without passing judgement. My children includes him in all family activities. We are not ashame of him.

Being against homo/lesbian would do no one any good. Making their lives miserable is against biblical teachings e.g. love thy neighbour as thyself, he who has no sins, pick up the first stone.

heh, goes to show the level of focus they (the new Exco) have when they don’t even know where they should take the gay issue to….

its as bad as taking cough syrup when one has a headache. lol.

those anti-gay supporters… support this new leader all you want.

*i am not pro or anti gay. but for the masses to focus on the gay issue really played into the hands of the new Exco- to garner support for themselves.

I feel that smokescreen or no, the fact that gay issue is such a provocation one means that there are people who will decide based on their fears of an over-arching gay agenda to the exclusion of the dangers to civil society the new exco’s actions posed.

It is the ‘as long as they speak for me, I don’t care if how they do it is right’ mentality.

Sometimes when people throw up a huge Bogeyman to distract the masses, you need to defeat the Bogeyman first before you can proceed. But that’s my view. Maybe I also got suckered too. lol

Well written article.

Alas none of the new Exco members exhibit even remotely any of the leadership qualities outlined, and it would seem far too egotistically to recognize their shortcomings.

Lets hope they get voted out somehow!

It is entertaining to read some people’s views of how they’re concerned sex-ed in schools encourages homosexual tendencies on a widespread level. How is it that the argument of AWARE being (only?) LGBT-friendly seems to have been reduced to the mere act of sexual experimentation?

I am female, pro-LGBT and am aware of the various sexual acts that exist between couples of all genders. For the record, I have been decidedly straight since I was 11 and I can not imagine how I would have started experimenting with other girls just because sex-ed suddenly tells me homosexuality is normal. Which is a factual statement and not based on some wacko interpretation of a few lines in a holy book (which is really about love and acceptance of all without judgment).

I know I like men, and that some men like men and some women like women. My parents did not raise me to tell me that love is to be selective. Should I have a child who is decidedly gay, I would have loved him/her all the same and wanting society to be accepting of him/her. Not “horrors!horrors! gay people taking over the world” sentiments. As others have mentioned, I hope the MOE would release their statement on the issue regardless, since it is apparently the concern of “many parents”.

The day the new AWARE starts ignoring the existence of sexual activities and preaching only abstinence would be a step backwards in society, sorry to say. But then I’m a pessimist in favour of the new Ex-Co being upfront about their future plans. Not pro-old guard though, since they haven’t actually made me ‘aware’ of much before this explosion lol.

Ryvyan,

I may be wrong here since I’ve not actually seen the CSE to verify for myself. I think those lines on pre-martial sex and homosexuality is okay but I do think that telling girls (or boys) that anal sex is healthy as long as it is done with consent and a condom has crossed the line.

I anal sex is meant to be normal, females would have been created with one hole and not two (besides the mouth). For the gays, they have no choice.

@ Back to Family Values

You think the old AWARE is all about lies because you are believing the new guards’ lies.

You might want to confer the title of hypocrite on the widely conferred Thio Su Mien right now, instead of humble little me.

@ Back to family values

And is this all you can resort to when you’re losing ground, resort to calling people names?

Apparently the values you claim to teach your children tend to fall as free as the wind.

Not only on sexual orientation, beware of their teaching to teenagers that been faithful is a fallacy. And using a simple protection (condom) is more effective to protect againt STD & HIV than to rely on basic human moral & ethics. Old guards say sex itself is not unsafe but unprotected sex ones are, this is a convenient twist – teenagers shall understand from here that having sex is okay so long as protection is used.

No wonder teens sex is on the rise and teens contracting STD on the rise too. If what the old AWARE has done is helpful to the community and to the human kind, then why negative indices are going on the rise?

Old guards need to do a soul search and dig on their consciences. But what we can see now is they are more interested in fighting for power.

http://informationreadbyme.blogspot.com/2009/04/old-guards-of-aware-are-buying-votes.html

57) Jaunty Jabber on April 27th, 2009 11.19 pm

Hi, JJ, we see you again, repeating the same arguments you posted on an earlier thread on Josie “I was being polite when I lied on national TV” Lau.

Your first statement essentially states that abstinence is better than using contraceptives. That is fine – but that is your belief. But you also say and I quote :
“beware of their teaching to teenagers that been faithful is a fallacy.”

I am challenging you now – which part of AWARE’s (the old AWARE, I mean) programme says that being faithful is a fallacy…exactly where? You have read their programme in order to realise that they are spreading this falsehood, right? After all I am sure you, being such an upright and faithful person would not criticise something that you know nothing of. So where – which page, which paragraph of what programme says this? You made this accusation – back it up or shut up!

Jaunty Jabber, ask yourself what have you contributed to society ? When is the last kind act you do ? when the last time you donate to charity/help someone without any motives ? What have you done to be helpful to the society. Look into the mirror. Before telling others that they have not done enough.

@Back to Family Values (#44),

First, it’s good you acknowledge (unlike some who persistently refuse to do so) that AWARE did not actively promote homosexuality or same-sex experimentation. At least, there’s zilch evidence to that effect, except for the offhanded ramblings of one Maureen Ong at the new Exco’s press conference.

Second, it may be true that AWARE ’stealthily’ included their views on GLBT, but that’s almost inevitable in any discussion of GLBT sex, which in turn almost always arises if a sex education programme is intended to be “comprehensive”. If the new Exco decides to launch their own CSEs, it’s likely that they will ’stealthily’, or implicitly, include their views on GLBT too.

Third, you suggest that AWARE was finally responsible for structuring the ’syllabus’ of its CSEs according to what’s in the students’ best interests. This is false. MOE and the schools must take primary responsibility for the programmes and courses they offer (even if extra-curricular, and conducted by 3rd parties); parents also have a secondary responsibility to learn about what children are being taught in schools. Consider this: were talks supporting intelligent design, Holocaust denial, or scientology (to take 3 more controversial viewpoints) delivered in schools, shouldn’t MOE and the school authorities shoulder the blame for any fallout?

#HT

you want specific reference, verse & minutes little details. I will show you. It is contained in page 2 where the 2 middle fingers meets. When the two fingers crossed, it indicates a very specific signals that is it intents to tillilates where you enjoy the most. While it titiliates, you sing praises on tolerances.

After which that same 2 middle fingers is for you to show it to the new committee that indeed the shit is better lying. You see HT you have a love relationship with shit whereas many of us are dieing to give them to you. I think you prefer to sleep with shit around you whereas many including non-christian cannot agree with the shit you projected.

To Ah Kow #59

Jaunty Jabber, ask yourself what have you contributed to society ?
–> Yes, I did contributed and contributing even more recently by pointing out some of the negative issues out of the Aware saga.

When is the last kind act you do ?
–> recently and now

when the last time you donate to charity/help someone without any motives ?
–> everyday, and not only to the society & charity, but to the earth and all human kind.

What have you done to be helpful to the society.
–> too many to post here, but the recent ones you should see, like pointing out the evils of some old guards’ personal doings

Look into the mirror. Before telling others that they have not done enough.
–> Not only my mirror tells me that I have done, Many people around me, they are not mirrors but human beings, have confirm that I have done well.

墨非定律

领导人
◎愚人居高位，正如一个人置身山顶，他会小看每个人。
◎每个人也会小看他。

To HT #58

You might have not done enough look around. Rotate your head more, open your eyes, click on to more sites and you should find the things that I have talked about.

And of course, those things you will not find them on AWARE official sites.
Things went on some subtle ways.
One need to be very observant in order to see what’s underneath.

3) Jaunty Jabber on April 28th, 2009 9.39 am

Sorry, Jabby, I did look around and all I saw was the hijack of a civic organisation by bigots and liars.

Now you said and I quote : “beware of their teaching to teenagers that been faithful is a fallacy.”

I asked you for specifics to back this statement (it’s a teaching, right? In writing right?) and you couldn’t do that. Logically therefore this statement must be false as it has no support. See, you don’t even need to use faith for this, just logic.

But, Jabby, you are right about the fundies and how they manipulate others in subtle ways though and how one needs to be observant to see how they operate to prevent future power grabs. Good point.

Each has freedom to interpret and turn things around to own’s favor – human’s flaw.

Old team, even if they managed to win at EGM due to synthetic votes, there should be no glory over their winning. Is big shame.

New team, we know the new team is powerful and strong, as they have merely put their foot in and there are so many hoo-ha. Really powerful.

Throughout, the lack of any coherent rationale or reason has proven to be the militants’ only source of defeat. Nobody really attacked them, they just crumbled under the weight of their own lies and incoherence. Yet they go on being oblivious and swagger with further material to accelerate the sinking of their own ship. It’s the strangest case of self destruction we have ever witnessed.

65) Jaunty Jabber on April 28th, 2009 11.13 am

Sigh. Jabby oh Jabby, I find myself agreeing with you more and more. Again you are right.
Old team win (imho, unlikely as the sheep will all be there, baaing away), no glory, they have only gotten back what they had before but oh so badly damaged. Ah, the loss of innocence.
New team – indeed powerful and strong, the power and strength of fanaticism. But where will that lead us and our society?

Hi HT,

Let’s be friendly to each other, I begin to see myself sounding more friendly towards you.

We don’t know what the new team will contribute to the good of the society, yes that’s true, thus why not give them a chance to show us. If they don’t lead well, we can don’t follow. If they don’t do well, they are subject to the society to query them. Why the bitterness of old guards trying to throw them out now?

Let’s be friendly to each other, I begin to see myself sounding more friendly towards you

Be careful now, HT, an irony-challenged Jaunty may soon be hitting on you… ;-)

Mirax

Please do not use your own personality to judge others.
You do not know me in person. You are not GOD.

Just like the recent(April 2009) Miss USA contest in which Miss California when asked by the compere, said that she does not agree with the homo-sexual lifestyle, I(a father of 2 grown up men(30 n 32) too, support her view as much I respect those with an alternate view!

Jaunty Jabber #70,

Don’t say you don’t love fairies deep, deep, long time. You are not a FAIRY!

Who’s the fairies? Where are the fairies?

“La la la la la, la la la la la,” Smurfette

the anti-gay camp should ask Josie & friends what “battle plan” they have up their sleeves.

hopefully its answered straight to the point. any shady neither here nor there answer means they are as clueless as anyone how to go about NGO work.

dun grab more than 1 can hold. if the new team needs time to prove themselves, they (& that mentor) do not have the needed leadership qualities. step down & build their fundation, let the previous team guide. the less experienced.

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -

those focusing on the gay issue should instead focus on probing this new Exco. see if they are that up to the task of leading Aware. any attempt to dodge, sidestep, not give a robust & direct reply would mean they do not have what it takes to be in that position.

they have enough time on their hands to mobilize a takeover, they have enough time to think about how they put that position of power to good use from day 1, no?

Hey, my blockquote came out in a pink box ! Should please Piece, jaunty and friends. Or would you fellas prefer a pink triangle?

I think TOC will chase you out if you continue your pinky talk here.

The argument is getting cuter and cuter by the day. I think you guys must be tired already.

One question: How many women have each of you brought in for your respective camps? Cute is nice but the real action is approaching fast, remember this.

#HT and Buddhist, you asked for proof of statements made in terms of homosexuality in the CSE, are you kidding? Even Constance Singam had admitted openly in the press conference that the curriculum in CSE did include a topic on homosexuality but she went on a craftily defence of it by saying that it was just a brief introductory topic, which wants to emphasis that “homosexuality is natural”.

Even Mathia Lee, a CSE Trainer, had admitted in her own blog that homosexual was included in the program and contents, and she had also facilitated the notion that homosexual is NORMAL and NATURAL!

(By the way, I did ask my daughter’s school for a copy of the CSE materials and they told me that I’ll have to go get it from AWARE, as it does not belong to them and they do not keep any copies!)

#HT, you are much more rational and balance in your points, thoughts and explanations, we have different views on certain topics but I do agree with many of your points as well.

#Buddhist, your statement of “Nobody really attacked them, they just crumbled under the weight of their own lies and incoherence” clearly demonstrates your own blinded arrogance, ignorance and selective acceptance of facts and truth, which therefore, makes you a highly irrelevant and intolerant person as far as this topic is concerned. I do not believe you are a Buddhist at all with your kind of self-righteous arrogance, so please stop insulting Buddhism.

Now, back to my opinion on the whole saga:

I am not against homosexuals and lesbians. I have also no problems with their existence in our society, and I will treat them like any normal human beings if I do come across them in my daily life.

My main issues and concerns (and here I emphasized again) if why AWARE think it should promote homosexuality as normal, and the fact that they had stealthily included it in the CSE curriculum (and many parents only get to know about it through the new guards of AWARE).

Is this not imposing their views and their values upon ordinary people like us who may not share their views, and therefore, demonstrate their scant regards and respects towards people like me (who have kids in schools right now) who believed in “one man, one woman nuclear family”?

Is there anything wrong with my concerns and my refusal to see eye–to-eye with the old guards on this topic?

Does that makes me a liar just for opposing people like Constance Singam and her bunch of old guards with their hidden agenda all this while?

If you guys (or gays) believed in diversity, why is there a problem for me NOT TO ACCEPT the old guards’ views that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Is that what you called diversity, or I am communicating with a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites here to run down anyone that opposed their views and opinions?

This will be my last post, it is time to translate words into actions from now on. Within our parenthood organization (consisting of parents from different faith, religions and nationalities who opposed AWARE’s branding of homosexual as normal), we have decided to start a 3rd party independent voice to petition and make our opinions known to the government bodies and schools about our concerns with AWARE’s CSE, and we want an open and transparent review of their contents and a good explanation of WHY, WHAT and HOW the homosexual topic will be facilitated within the school.

WE WANT TO BE INVOLVED NOW, as we can no longer trust even reputable organizations like AWARE! Lessons learned and history should not repeat itself!

say before liao, those with issues of what is being taught in schools voice your concerns to MOE.

i have not read the CSE, but does mentioning a topic equate to promoting it?

can i ask how come in the animation, WALL-E, that perverted robot play with a bra & cover its eyes? must have been stealthy promoting sexual experimentation oso right?

-.-”

Mr Back to Basics Value,

I’m all behind you in forming your group of concerned parents of all faiths and nationalities. This is what civil society is all about.

But please be careful about who you invite into your organisation as there may be some of those sneaky pro-gay people who make hijack your organisation for a gay cause.. and then you cannot cry foul because it is legally done. History should not repeat itself.

The concern of “Back to Basics Value” is understandable, imagine the following scenarios:

On surface and officially, the trainer cannot deliver AWARE curriculum that contain anything too bold or having elements that speaks against human values and the legal system during their talks to schools or any other public held seminars.

At the end of the talks/seminars, the trainer leave behind some personal e-mail address, msn-address, facebook account, blog address, websites or other kind of links to the audience (mainly students), or when some friendly audience may care to obtain contact details from trainer for future references. In this cases, trainer and trainees gets alternate channels to remain in contact and/or, obtain alternate modes for sharing of beliefs on personal basis.

In those personal platforms, trainer with special ideas/agenda share their point of views. Trainees who click on to their blogs or any other links shall be exposed to their trainer’s special beliefs.

This is going to be very influencing as trainees look upon the trainer as their mentor or role model.

(Again, herewith I emphasize: we are not saying that anyone with special beliefs are wrong or unethical, we are just stating that there are channels that are beyond the official context and boundaries that people could share among).

We are not saying that the old AWARE have hidden curriculum or special intent, but we are concerned of any person who may make use of AWARE to reach out to spread their beliefs, and if the beliefs are those which were not endorsed by the legal system or are challenging basic human morals, then it is dangerous.

With such concern, it is important that AWARE or any other social organization regulate their members’ code of behaviors up to the levels of their personal lives.

“Trainees who click on to their blogs or any other links shall be exposed to their trainer’s special beliefs.”

And what might those ‘SPECIAL’ beliefs be, I wonder?

That’s right. I am absolutely certain that, even without proof, that AWARE engages SPECIAL trainers, qualified though they are, to teach about sex education in schools. Mind you, not normal people, parents etc, but SPECIAL people.

Care to elaborate how exactly are they… (bling! bling!) SPECIAL?

“We are not saying that the old AWARE have hidden curriculum or special intent, but we are concerned of any person who may make use of AWARE to reach out to spread their beliefs, and if the beliefs are those which were not endorsed by the legal system or are challenging basic human morals, then it is dangerous.”

you hit the nail on the head, Jaunty. AWARE shouldn’t be used as an organisation to spread Fundie beliefs. The legal system has a Religious Harmony Act, remember? Basic human morals of honesty, decency and integrity has been challenged, and it is dangerous.

No wonder the number of corporate thugs are on the rise.

Oh, but a hetrosexual person with good family values who endorses harmful bank products is a better person than an average person whose only fault is to be born gay.

To Zefty #84

Special as in ideas or mindset that is out of the usual acceptance level, things that were not yet endorsed by the legal system or considered to be too bold by the majority.

Jaunty,

I hear you. I disagree, but I hear you.

See, we are having a conversation. You don’t see me go over to your house/office and shut down your computer. Though I know the people of TOC personally, you don’t see me call them and tell them to censor your comments, or the comments of anybody else for that matter.

Now let’s do some working backwards.

You have a very fixed sense of moral. You probably believe too, that morality is out of the realm of laws. Right? Even if there is no law against killing, you also believe it is wrong to kill.

So I take it that you can’t use the argument that it is legal, therefore there is nothing wrong with taking over the ex co.

So, is it right or wrong, what Dr Thio has done?

To Zefty #87

Is that a threat from you? That your personal relationship with the TOC team shall do something exceptionally for you?

So I shall understand that TOC will not stand firm on their philosophy that the comments panels is open for readers to share views? As long as the comments do not contain direct accusation or dafamation?

Shall I understand that TOC will do something because there is a friend of TOC telling them to do so?

Gawd, Jaunty,

You don’t get analogies do you? Why do you guys get so jumpy all the time…?

My point was that there are many ways we could deal with disagreement. Silencing ‘dissent’ would be the wrong way to do it even if we have the connections or power to.

Now please focus on the remaining part of the question.

Jaunty Jabber #83,

“Homosexuality is normal” is not a belief in the sense that it is not faith-based i.e. evidence comes into play. The spherical Earth is not a belief, gravity is not a belief, evolution is not a belief….

Without explanation or an argument, I can’t see how homosexuality challenges basic human morals. We don’t take things on faith here. Oh and does that mean you think heterosexuality upholds basic human morals? How does that work? Pray tell.

“…it is important that AWARE or any other social organization regulate their members’ code of behaviors up to the levels of their personal lives”?? Pray again, tell again.

“Not endorsed by the legal system” is a valid concern that I agree with.

Even with today’s press release on MOE’s point of view over AWARE school programmes, it is still not convincing that there is no hidden agenda delivered by the old AWARE. Why? Because things goes on invisibly.

MOE’s message is a fair one as they are judging it only from whatever is visible on surface.

MOE do not know if there are things going on down under or long after the talks, they are not in the position to know as well.

Therefore, my points are, if there are communication channels or reference points after the talks, that is the time where no one would restrict what the trainer would share with the trainees.

Someone with hidden agenda could make use of AWARE as a bridge to reach the public in wide scale.

To Slim #90

When I mentioned “to challenge human moral”, I am referring to the multiple challenges. For example, protecting oneself against STD & HIV is by staying faithful to your partner, using condoms should never replace this belief. If using of condoms is pronounced to be much effective than being faithful, then it can mislead the youngs.

If trainer is to say “being faithful is a fallacy, faithful person also contract STD & HIV from their partners when condoms is not in use”. But, can we see from there that being unfaithful is still the root cause, the partner is not faithful, thus he/she passed the virus to his faithful partner.

Using of condom should never come to overtake the primary importance of being faithful.

@JJ

You are evading questions like Mrs Thio has taught her brethren to.

Is it right what Mrs Thio has done?

why do some people insist on going about in a witch-hunt (no witch? create 1?)? it borders on paranoia liao…

so much for faith…

-.-”

Hi Buddhist @93

I am speaking for myself only, I do not know about Dr Thio until recent news.

Maybe it happened that my concerns are partly similar to what she have said to the press. But I am not speaking in her tune or in special support to her.

I am supportive on what I believed as appropriate, my own beliefs.

Nobody asked you if you knew her.

We merely asked whether you believe her instigating and her lying, despite being a Christian, was right. Which, amazingly is still not answered. The evasion is as clear as day.

79) Back To Family Values on April 28th, 2009 1.56 pm

Setting up a group of concerned parents is commendable and is what should be done. Good luck on that count.

However, the Aware saga is more than homosexuality, as I hope that you’ve noticed.
It’s also about honesty, trust and the freedom of secular civil society groups from threat from organised religion or any other hostile groups.

The hostile takeover by the new Exco, their incompetence, lies and overall un-trustworthiness, coupled with the forceful silencing of the Aware old guard (via said takeover) instead of engaging in civil discourse and debate is a very important concern as well.

In a plural society like ours, it is downright dangerous and seditious to accept the barbaric behaviour of the new exco. Why? Because that will pave the way for further intolerance and hostile takeovers of any who disagree! Can you imagine? It’ll be a free for all.

What should be done instead is exactly what you have suggested. Set up another organisation to examine the neutrality of sexual education and engage Aware in civil discourse. Not attacking them.

May 2nd. We have an obligation to ourselves and our freedom to disagree.
Do not support the new exco’s gangsterism and vote them out, ladies.

Cheers.

#91　Jaunty,

you are right to say that “Someone with hidden agenda could make use of AWARE as a bridge to reach the public in wide scale.”, never occured to you it’s the group of 6 COOS members who initally declared that they did not know each other prior to joining AWARE?

they look very much like what you described in that sentence.

by the way, you didnt reply about Buddhist about whether you think thio s right to do that, i am curious too, why are you so evasive?

To Buddhist

I also never say I know or don’t know Dr Thio, I merely said I do not know “about” her (which means do not heard about this person until recently).

All comments that I have posted are based on my own beliefs, I never compared mine with hers or anyone else. My head did not include what she said when I read or write about AWARE news.

Regards

It is very obvious to all on this board that you champion every single cause Dr Thio listed in her interview/emails. It is not only opinion, but train of thought, that you have aligned with her so uncannily. It is also very obvious that you refuse to take a stand whether you think what she did was right. That is most likely because you may believe yourself that it was not.

None of us have to draw any conclusions from this. But bearing this in mind, and you continual insistence of MOE/AWARE’s intentions of wayward education, which so far no one has been able to substantiate (including paranoid warnings to see beyond the obvious, which should obviously be better advice the other way round), what you continue to say falls extremely short of credibility.

@ Back to Family Values

Your belong to a group that is so insecure with their parenting that you worry that a sentence “Homosexuality is normal” from a stranger to your child will drive him gay. This stance against the rest of the nation’s parents who are so confident in their parenting that they know what a stranger says about homosexuality will not change their child’s sexual orientation, neither the playing of video games or watching of hollywood movies will turn their children murderers.

You may want to spend more time being a good parent to your kids, so they may be unwaivering against popular culture’s constant inculcation of vices, than to waste all that energy for the ‘greater good’ of society, when you are just actively trying to divide it.

You say I’m arrogant. I’m not aware of it, but this may subconciously have to do with the fact that I know this side of the argument carries a lot more objectivity and rationale. Yours is flawed from day one, so you sontinue to attack with accusations of “arrogant, blind, disgrace to Buddhism”. Why not acquire a little sense of class in your argument and maybe we can then talk on the same platform.

Sharing of comments here is to provide a room for deeper thoughts.

I do not see myself appropriate to say anything like a hard fact even if I know of something. Because it is not worth inviting any personal trouble. Message shall get across subtly if one care to give it a deeper thoughts.

My views is not to change anyone’s idea or beliefs, is not to influence anyone. My views are here just to offer extra facets to all of the existing point of views & thoughts,

101) Jaunty,

Can you rephrase that again? Cause that whole jibberish just flew past my head.

Rephrase what? which?

Another troll…
Very apt name, Jabber.
Jabberwocky, that’s what it is.

“I do not see myself appropriate to say anything like a hard fact”
wtf?Are you trying to say that you’re not GOOD enough to lay out your facts?
You’re certainly not good enough, but that’s because you HAVE not presented ANY facts.

“Message shall get across subtly if one care to give it a deeper thoughts. ”
the only message anyone is getting is that you’re a semi-literate troll.

Present your facts, state your reasoned arguments and discuss.
If that’s beyond you, (or you refuse to state your sources due to whatever reason) then go away and stop trolling.

Jabby – Hi, we’re back here again, aren’t we, after our last meeting on the wayang party site. But come on, the same messages? What is this? Cut and paste time…also, you’ve not tidied up your messages, I see.You are still using “we are not saying”..who is “we”? You really need to forgot edit the “we” from the talking points that the fundie master handed out to you. The disinformation campaign won’t work, unless you execute it properly, you know.

“#83Therefore, my points are, if there are communication channels or reference points after the talks, that is the time where no one would restrict what the trainer would share with the trainees.”

Yes, Jabby. You went on and on about this in the other thread and I told you didn’t I? Firstly, it a “If”..a big “if”. Did it happen? When? Where? And “if” it happened, that’s not AWARE right? That’s private time between th trainee and the student. Maybe we should let the student go to Church also. After all, no one would restrict what the pastor would share with the trainee.

Come on. Surely your fundie masters from Hicksville, USA could teach you better lines, right?

And Jabby, this other one…

“#85We are not saying that the old AWARE have hidden curriculum or special intent, but we are concerned of any person who may make use of AWARE to reach out to spread their beliefs, and if the beliefs are those which were not endorsed by the legal system or are challenging basic human morals, then it is dangerous.”

Sigh. Jabby, . how did you become concerned? Because Dolores Umbridge lookalike Darth Thio and the other liars, Josie and Maureen said so? I mean, they LIED. They are LIARS. And you believe these LIARS? Aiyoh, please lah, this particular horse died a long time ago, no use to keep flogging it..Save the flogging for the liars.

The Singapore rugby team recently lost to South Korea, an Asian rugby powerhouse 65-0. I think the Singapore team needs a revamp. People like Peace, Jabby and even Darth Thio, Maureen and Josie should be playing rugby for Singapore. With their sidestepping, twisting and evasion skills, wow, we could be world champions. We could rival the All Blacks with this new All Lies team.

Jaunty Jabber #92,

A) You haven’t accounted for the exclusive connection between being faithful and HIV. How condoms might “replace this belief” or if being faithful is just a means to ward off STDs.

B) You DO know that one doesn’t need to have multiple sexual partners to contract STDs don’t you? One could do the trick. Faithfulness or the lack of it, is not the root cause of anything. Out of curiosity, do you consider AIDS a curse from God?

C) Isn’t it immoral for “trainers” to train their wards in ignorance?

Jaunty Jabber #102,

“I do not see myself appropriate to say anything like a hard fact even if I know of something.”

But you see yourself appropriate [sic] to lie even when you don’t know anything?

To Slim @106

I could just deliver subtly. I respect all of yours comments and also the others who comments here. All of us are here to share what we feel, we have choice to deliver our message directly or subtly.

Jaunty Jabber #107,

Strident incoherence is subtle? Sure, why not. Garbage in, garbage out

The tone or words used may appeared as strident incoherence to some. However, the message get across subtly.

The machine could be loud, but the product is quiet.

Bwaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

#111) Jaunty Jabber on April 29th, 2009 12.29 pm

“The tone or words used may appeared as strident incoherence to some. However, the message get across subtly.”

Wow, Jabby, we’re into masking now! That is so 80s, man. Lame. You mean, when I read your message backwards, there is a sublimal message that that gets burned into my brain and I become another mindless fundie sheep, blindly following all an American Hicksville religion that is pretending to be a major religion of love, kindness and charity?

To me, being 80s and lame is cool and sexy.

Muahahahahaha!!!! That’s cute. You’re learning fast Jaunty. Sometimes we have to remember that even as we differ and launch the proverbial nuclear warheads at each other, you sometimes need a sense of humor to make sense of it all.

Zefly, I appreciate your friendliness.

We may argue over things which we see and feel differently, but there is no need to become enemy to each other. Who knows in the future, there might be topics which we may see from the same angle and share the same view, right?

Agreed Jaunty,

But please allow me to insinuate about your lack of intelligence, rant at you for your lack of morals, ridicule your logic etc etc… :P

hugs

Zefty,

By all means, go ahead and bash me, unlimited when all bashes are bashed across online. Jaunty Jabber is jaunty, Jaunty Jabber is not gloomy.

Hi Jabby

Can I tell you something that should concern all parents, especially those whose children attend a certain church?

Do you know that there is a gay pastor lurking around ? One who is very active in his place of worship and has openly declared himself to be gay. Of course he says that he has undergone counselling but still, as a concerned citizen, I feel that I must reach out and teach others about this scary thing.

Of course I am not saying that he has done anything gayish but I am concerned that students may call him or talk to him in private and may be encouraged by him in subtle ways to become gay too. I think this is really encouraging homosexuality and this pastor should not be allowed to operate so surreptitiously. We don’t want a Singaporean version of Ted Haggard, do we/

What do you think?

oh btw Jaunty,

my previous post was meant in light-heartedness.

To HT and all,

There are so many unknown, what we could do is to take our own action towards what we deemed as “need to work on” whenever we discover any wrong. And of course we have to take good proper actions lah, like voicing out over here is healthy. Don’t go and threaten people or boycott the innocent bank.

There are limitation on what we can achieve. But at least we do our very bit.

Together we form one huge noisy machine, our product may not be wanted. But at least the machine cannot be treated as invisible or unknown, it is huge and it is noisy!!

Zefly,

Yes I know that message of yours was a light-hearted delivery. I did replied but I think TOC got worried thought we two are fighting thus it got deleted. I meant to tell you that it is Okay to bash me with words on the cyberspace if I am such a pain.

I appreciate light-hearted message because it means the person who wrote it must be a person with good sense of humour and interesting.

Zefly and JJ, I pronounce you man and wife, you may now kill the bride.

why is there even a forum over a petty issue like AWARE when other more important news like the government’s undoings are taking place

jackKnife: If you still dont get it by now, hmmm …..have you read all the posts on aware to see what the whole hulla baloo is about? Perhaps you have not. Clue: Religious organisation, spiritual and moral battle for control of secular organisation, lies, hidden agenda, orchestrated coup.

see:http://sgblogs.com/blog/singapore-daily-singaporedaily/2811

Surely you must see the bigger picture of the implications and you wont call it petty. If it is so petty, would you think half of SIngapore would be abuzz about it?

Dear Modernist @120)

Don’t you need to check if Jaunty Jabber & Zefly are male & female or male & male or female & female before you solemnize the marriage online?

Nah, It’ll just be more amusing that way… imagine if it were Female/Female… oooh, the irony…

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