Statement from Church of Our Saviour on the Aware saga. It is reproduced here in its entirety.
As the media reported on the AWARE saga, it brought up the fact that several of the new exco are members of Church of Our Saviour. This has created the perception that the church was behind the move.
This is not true. Church of Our Saviour did not initiate or instigate any campaign to take over the leadership of AWARE. The church withheld comment but the allegations have continued. This statement is to clear the air so far as our alleged involvement is concerned.
We have not, nor will we, allow our pulpit to be used to intentionally teach anything that would arouse social tensions, divisions and unrest.
Church of Our Saviour does not have an agenda against homosexuals. We are not antihomosexual. The Christian Bible says we have all committed sin in different ways – heterosexual and homosexual – against Almighty God. But God loves us so much that He sent Jesus Christ to take the judgment in our place. (Reference John 3:16, Romans 5:8). We believe homosexuals should be extended understanding, kindness and love like every other human being. No homosexual should ever be deprived of any right enjoyed by every other Singaporean.
However, Church of Our Saviour does have a stand against the agenda of activists promoting homosexuality as a normal alternative lifestyle. Just as much as the Bible commands us to love the homosexual person, it also states categorically that homosexual practice is wrong. (Reference Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:8-10)
Accepting homosexual practices and endorsing any education program that teaches our children that such practices are neutral or normal, would lead to the erosion of the sound family values on which Singapore society has been built.
We hope that AWARE members will go to their EGM without the wrong assumption that the exco is a pawn of the church or that it has intentions to turn it into a religious organization as that is totally untrue.
Senior Pastor Derek Hong
—-
The following is a report from the Straits Times:
Churches: Don’t get involved
THE National Council of Churches of Singapore (NCCS) says it does not condone churches getting involved in recent matters related to the Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware).
In a statement on Thursday, it said it did not condone pulpits being used for this purpose.
‘Our member churches are not involved in the present saga. In fact, our heads of churches have very recently reiterated to their clergy the standing instruction on the proper use of the pulpit,’ said the statement issued by Archbishop John Chew, president of the NCCS, and Mr Lim K Tham, NCSS general secretary.
The NCCS brings together Christian groups like the Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, Salvation Army and Syrian Orthodox churches, among others. Dr Chew is also the head of the Anglican church in Singapore.
Last week, it emerged that staff and members of the Church of Our Saviour in Margaret Drive, which is under the Anglican communion, were encouraging people to join Aware and support the new team in the society’s leadership dispute.
They said the old team at Aware had been promoting lesbianism and homosexuality, a charge the team has rejected.
In a weekend sermon, Senior Pastor Derek Hong urged the women in his flock to ‘be engaged’ and support new president Josie Lau and ‘her sisters’ at Aware.
The NCCS said it had been following the recent events related to Aware.
‘We are concerned that religion has been dragged into the unfortunate situation. The matters related to Aware should be solved by its own members,’ it said.
Some Christians are however uncomfortable that the saga has thrust their religion in the limelight, for the wrong reasons. In blogs and forums, many Christian netizens said religion has no role in secular organisations.
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40) Go Green on May 1st, 2009 3.02 pm
Sorry, Go Green, I can’t agree with your call to “move on”, swine flu notwithstanding. I don’t underplay the importance of other issues in our life such as the recession, etc but to me this ranks up there and deserves serious attention.
If we allow religious ideology to cross into civic society, then this sows the seeds of destruction of a peaceful society. Whether or not AWARE is restored to the old guard (which i think is unlikely though I hope I am wrong) we must all be alert to the encroachment of religious beliefs into our secular system.
30) yipeng on May 1st, 2009 9.16 am
@ 26) sarek_home on May 1st, 2009 8.44 am
You are assuming that the church-attendee relationship between COOS and members of the new Exco is similar to that of an employer-employee. That might not be the case.
I certainly did not assume the church-attendee relationship similar to that of an employer-employee.
The church body is a congregation of brothers and sisters. It is a very close family relationship, not the sort of “employer-employee” relationship. It is a life-long relationship and it makes a much stronger case of the whole congregation accountable for the deed of individual members. The church leaders must not ignore the deed of its members and they should be accountable for their deed.
when i was young i was always told not to play with fire, its a good servant & a bad master.
now somebody in a position of influence played with fire & its going out of control (if not already). instead of putting it out, they just use some lame means to cover it, its plain to see that thay will live to suffer their foolish act.
play on i say, some must learn a lesson the hard way. no verbal warning will work, they belong to that group.
Which is a bigger sin?
A
I do agree the notion of moving on, BUT now is not the time. We always need to move on with life but the timing is important. When you see someone fell down next to you, do you move on? Or if you see a blind man trying to cross the road, you move on? After you helped these people than you move on.
If we are people who just “move-on” all the time. We may be better dead because we are hopeless zombies that can’t even spare a little finger to help. In this case you do not deserve to live in this society at all.
The reason people is not moving on here is because this is a situation we felt will affect us and our lives. If we just die off quietly here, these lunatics will shaft their so call standards into our throat. If we keep quiet, we agree silently with them and agree with their actions as well. Now is not the time to move on.
There are no excuse for COOS and their pastor. Their letter to clarify their stand is making their position looks even more unclear. Pastors does have a way to play with words to lie but you will not be able to catch him. I know it because I used to work in a church that promotes HOLINESS.
The senior pastor say he hates sins, hates lies, hates gossips…. but I saw him committed the very acts that he claimed he hates. Why, because the higher you go, the higher you need to maintain and when you make a mistake, you cannot let people know, the only way is to cover it with a lie.
I remember this pastor collect a 2nd offering when a visitor came to speak in our church. It is a default thing that everyone takes for granted that a 2nd offering normally goes to the visiting speaker, so people gave more because he preached well. But to our surprise, the visiting speak were given a fixed amount and the church took the 2nd offering. When questioned, the senior pastor said he never said the 2nd offering is for the speaker, he just felt he need to collect it. We have never collected 2 offering before that.
You see how deceiving they can be. He did it again after that and when questioned again, he avoided the whole issues and bring God into the picture. The person who questioned him has her name written in his black book of troublemaker. I resigned and left the church.
For those who are defending COOS and their pastor, think again. you do not know the lies they have stored in their safe. Do not be used as tools for evil just because someone is named pastor or senior pastor or other big church names. Do not be partaker of someone evil doings, you will have to answer for it before God.
For those who said “Let God be the Judge”. You are not exercising the wisdon that God gave to you. God said “Judge them by their fruits”. So he wants us to use our God-given intelligent to judge for ourselves. USE YOUR BRAIN in another word.
Sorry I sounded rude but I am tired of seeing religious leaders using emotion and words to manipulate their believers. I have seen it and I am still seeing it happening but it is getting more and more serious.
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. The senior pastor that I worked for keeps telling the church he does not collect a salary, but I found out he does but he call it honorarium and he does so through another organisation that the church supports and he has full control. He said he live by faith, and has moved from a 3-room to a 4-room flat and now living in a private condo thinking of shifting to a landed property. He change he car every 3 years, it always gets bigger. He said God provided all for him. I discovered he collects tithes from some members who gave they tithes to him instead of to the church.
I was working in one of the conference where the speaker use a near-transparent 12 by 36 by 12 inches container to collect offerings. Everybody rushes down to give and since it is near-transparent, everyone can see the colour of the dollar note they put in. So many are forced in this way to give more. They even have to empty the container half way into a trash bag because it is overflowing.
The church have to stop thinking that control makes people obey. Control makes people rebel because freedom is a God-given thing given to all, whatever the religion, sexual orientation or colour. DO NOT PLAY GOD cause you are not.
37) kopiO on May 1st, 2009 12.01 pm
“assume if a group of NUS student take over Aware – doe sit mean NUS is behind them.. Within organisation, groups or Christian, non Christian; buddist etc etc – if a grouping of ppl felt sometihng be done to change direction… they go about doing it . ”
kopiO, when you are at the door of your home you smell something fishy, you know you mother is cooking fish.
People here are not idiots, if a group NUS students hijack AWARE, nobody will think NUS instigated it. Maybe a lecturer but you cannot link NUS with the student.
But here, the link can be made. If you have follow through with the whole saga you know they are basing their so-call new directions in Christianity.
Christianity-Christians-church-COOS ….. Do you see the link or not?
The pastor have spoken from the pulpit to ask his members to support this cause. He emailed his member too for this purpose. The New EXCO lied about they knowing each other.
ALL this and you said there are no links. Please be realistic.
To each its own. Be who you want to be. Your are what you are. No one is perfect. No one is better. There is only one God for all races and religions. Its not a question of whose God is more powerful thats provided you believe there is one.
If you do not believe in God well thats your choice. So let us not use the question of lesbianism and homosexuality as a guise in all this farce thats going on.
The truth will soon be revealed and at the end of the day we would have waisted unnecessary time and efforts that could have been channeled to our worthy causes–”Swine FLu” and the worlds financial problems, retrenchment. jobs>
I rest my case.
I think the issue is that the new exco should just set up a new group and not use the stealth tactics to seize control.
Someone posted this and its really good. It is entitled What happened inside Aware office a day before the EGM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLMdcs_XN0
Pastor Derek Hong ! you are prevaricating and shamelessly doing it – best for you to disrobe hor……
I have just found out that the pastor of a church by the name of Rock of Ages is calling on all their female church members to sign up as members of AWARE to support Josie and gang, simply based on newspaper reports and her claim to a dream that it is God’s will. This is so scary!!! I wonder how many other fundamentalist chruches are being mobilised for tomorrow’s meeting. Anyone else heard anything?
Gemini #50,
Believing in astrology.
YODI #52,
Is your case lethargy? Rest before starting.
HT #54,
Clip review: funny and subversive. (Atheists are often compared to Nazis.)
Dear Pastor Hong,
Why should homosexuality be wrong just because the Bible says so? In fact, in terms of a commandment allegedly laid down by God – Leviticus 20.13 [to which you drew reference] – anyone who is a homosexual must be put to death. So what is this crap talk about God loving us so much? This god of yours allgedly created a special place, supposedly an eternal lake of fire, where he will send us, or some of us, to live and suffer and burn and scream forever and ever; but he loves us!
Are you aware with scientific findings that a person’s sexual orientation begins in the womb? If you wish to argue that culture also has a role to play, I wouldn’t disagree.
And what makes you think that this god of yours exists and “loves us so much”?
You will not of course admit that your god is portrayed in none other than the book said to be inspired by him – the Bible – as a being with killing or genocidal instincts.
Please re-read these passages, in case you have forgotten them:
Genesis 38.6-10
Deuteronomy 2.24, 2.34, 7.16, 12.2-3, 13.6-10, 20.16/17
Numbers 31.1-40
Joshua 6.24, 10.39-40
Judges 3.29, 4.15/16, 8.17
1 Samuel 15.2/3
Hosea 13.6
1 Kings 18.40
2 Kings 1.9-12
Joel,
The very nature of civic organisation is to rally what matters – essentially there will be those who simply dont tolerant… they can come from any grouping of ppl. this is how civic grp arises.. example … You can start a imporve toilet scheme, where do you find a group of ppl willing … often within gang of friends you already know to rally ..right?
I think many Christians will answer the call to go and support the New EXCO. That is why I am worrying for AWARE. A lot Christians are blind followers. the fact is no matter what NCCS says, they really do not control most churches in Singapore. Many churches do not even bother about them except having their church particular being published in the Church Directory. Other than that NCCS do not really have any say in the church community.
They do not even need to register with NCCS when a new church is set up. I know because I helped to set up a church before. Most churches are independent…. so no checking ….. they can do anything.
I think we will see a big turnout for the New EXCO. You will see a lor blinded supporters…. they do not use a cane. I hope that the old guard will have overwhelming respond too…. bet them. If cannot … resign and set up a NEW AWARE. Suggestion :WAAA – Women Action Against Abuses ….
No matter what happen the old guard is still winners.
2) smallvice585 on April 30th, 2009 11.40 pm TOC is neither biased nor anti-Christian..
Try to be more subtle. :) You were way to obvious there.
ur…. KapiO … your point is?
Leave the churches out of it.
Its a group of people twisting God’s Word to suit their own purposes.
This has nothing to do with religion. Leave it out. Comment about the individuals.. not the entire Christian population.
Joel Low #58,
I think so too. The most strking comment I’ve read (and agreed with) is there is no such thing as a fundamentalist Christian. You are either Christian, or not. Period.
63) roger toh on Your comment is awaiting moderation. May 1st, 2009 10.53 pm #52To each its own. Be who you want to be. Your are what you are. No one is perfect. No one is better. There is only one God for all races and religions. Its not a question of whose God is more powerful thats provided you believe there is one.
One God for all races? You crazy or wat. Jesus must have polluted your filthy mind. There’s a plethora of gods amg all religions, not just Jesus. It’s appalling TOC allows people to derogate buddhists, muslims, taoists and catholics this way. There aren’t just xtians in singapore ok?
There is only one God for all races and religions. Its not a question of whose God is more powerful thats provided you believe there is one.
This sentence tells me that the moderator is definitely christian. Fake impartialness.
Chill. Love. Practise Love. Admin should delete post number 64.
There is only one Race – The Race of Humanity
There is only one Religion – The Religion of Love.
When SOOC mass spam the anti moe letter around, they are already promoting the involvement of their religion. Too late. They know better than to stir up trouble for their own church.
Guys, don’t you think this has gone past the point of being funny. Seriously, I was actually not terribly sympathetic to the old guard until the new exaco reveled the presence of the Feminist Mentor and then you could see the new lot for what they are – totally nuts.
I mean what constitutes a homosexual conspiracy here. A screening of a film? The fact that a gay guy was allowed to talk about getting people to be more open about being HIV? (Which if you look at MOH statistics, you’ll see that HIV is not a gay disease) And the fact that an educational program conducted along with the MOE did not denounce homosexuality.
I’ve said time and time again, I’m no fan of homosexuals and lesbians. I even made my sister cry when I visited her over the holidays because I used the F** word. But this view that there is a homosexual agenda that’s out to endanger the family is insane. Have they got any proof that you can turn people homosexual this easily? Come on! Let’s think logically about the issue.
well said jaded.sg. all religions are about love and peace after all. tsm is probably misguided.
Feminist mentor. You mean she has ambitions for old lee’s MM position. Doubt she has shoes as big as MM’s.
I am just plain curious, so many lies spoken without much thought. Isn’t it a sin to lie in the context of christian?
@ 65) roger tan on May 1st, 2009 11.01 pm
What good is tolerance if it cannot tolerate any form of intolerance? The Bible and Christians do believe that there is only one God. It may be difficult to muster but please be tolerant ;)
Gays are a hazard to our society. We should thank the new guards for helping us thwart their plans to use aware as a platform to project their voice. Religion should not be part of their agenda but the upholding of righteousness in the name of God is. I don’t want my kids to learn bad stuff. The state should be the one responsible for taking care and teaching our sons, not us parents. They should answer for these.
This is true. Only one God exists in our fabric of existence. The rest are also gods, just without the capital G. TOC should moderate all posts to remove the word jesus. It’s derogatory. Is TOC anti-christianity?
I see. I agree with your view yipeng. I apologise for being too emotional and intolerant. Maybe there is really one god after all.
There’s no deny that because of the Pastor’s and his church members’ involvement in the coup to take over AWARE, social tensions, divisions and negative emotions are aroused.
NCCS should have made its statement earlier (at least right after Senior Pastor Derek Hong’s weekend sermon and before the church’s instigation on parents on the CSE issue). Many fanatic church members have already been brainwashed and are behaving so irrationally that I doubt they will heed NCCS’s advice now.
As for Pastor Derek Hong, instead of using lies to cover lies, he should make amends by instructing his ‘followers’ to give up and resign from AWARE. There’s really no future for them at AWARE. What they will win will be despise, contempt and further condemnation from people with integrity, if they persist.
Dr Gwee Li Sui’s article (in another thread) shows that he is a considerate, clear-minded and highly intelligent Christian. He is every bit correct to warn Christians against supporting the new exco’s actions to vote the old guards out at the EGM. The implications he stated are valid and not to be ignored.
#55,
please be more specific, are you refering to the New Creation Church, aka the Rock?
where did you get that piece of information from, can you substantial it? thanks
Forgotten to add this:
Pastor Derek Hong could use Peace’s brilliant excuse to exit if he is concerned about ‘face-saving’.
I see. I agree with your view yipeng. I apologise for being too emotional and intolerant. Maybe there is really one god after all
Josie represents her church! There’s no way her church can run away. Some religions believe in a god; some believe in many gods. I think many gods is more accurate.
#78 orchid,
what’s peace brilliant excuse?
New Creation Church also involved? A simple quarrel btwn 2 grps of auntys. Live and let live. tomorrow’s EOGM is just a publicity stunt again. lets wash our hands off this matter and focus on the flu!
Peace’s suggestion is to fire the pastor like how one of our MP kena fire and lie in hospital lidat. kidding. Pastor D must be truthful & not lie. bad role model.
lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies
i am sick of hearing lies. someone tell me what is the real agenda of TSM?
We have all been subverted by the rainbow alliance. If we do not allow a rapist to teach his “agenda” to our school children, why do we allow a gay to teach his agenda? or a lesbian to teach hers? or a child molester? or an animal “lover”? none of those people were “born that way” or even remotely “made that way”. We have been diverted into perverted argument. The issue is not about genetic make-up, NGOs, new/old guards, church or God, or journalism. The issue is about ALL our children, not just Christian children, but ALL children of Singapore.
I think we are missing the point and went way out. The point here is not whether we should allow the nation to cross God’s line or not. It is not even about the gay or lesbian issues. AWARE does not promote the lifestyle of gay or lesbian. As our Prime Minister mentioned in parliament last year, what sexual orientation one is, it is his private lifestyle and we do not dictate what and how each one should live their life. AWARE is only trying to be relevant so that they can help the student to understand more about themselves.
I agree with #71 Tang Li comment that it is not so easily and for some impossible to change a person to another sexual orientation. What is worst is that we know the issue exist but we pretend it is not there and we shield our children for the truth. The shielding can do more harm to the children than educating them about it because they will either get information from their friends or somewhere else where it is less controllable . Some may even experiment on themselves .
Some of you argue about 1 god many gods …. different religious beliefs… etc. I am perfectly okay that we have different beliefs. You can believe in Jesus, Buddha, Alla… or whatever God you believe. Here in Singapore, I have the the freedom to believe my religion and I can accept that someone else believe a different one. The point is whatever you believe in, it is okay with me, I can still be a fellow Singaporean to you without trying to convert you over.
I know some have aspire to convert the whole of Singapore to your religion. You can if you try hard enough. But until then, can we respect one another beliefs. Giving space for majority or minority to live their own religious lifestyle. Do we really want to start a religious war by intruding into one another religion? Do we want to see those who are over zealous hijacking organizations to force upon others their beliefs and values.
Put yourself in the shoes of those being hijacked. I am sure there are Muslim, Hindus, Buddhists among the old guards. How would they feel if the hijackers wants to impose Christian values unto these group of people. Have we thought about the seriousness of the whole saga? If everyone starts to impose our own beliefs system in the places we work or abuse our authority to promote our religions, there will be chaos everywhere. Look at other countries where such things have happened, Look at the middle east, India…. etc.
If a another religion group try to hijack a Christian based Organization, for example… Touch Ministry, Boys Brigade, how would the Christians feel? See?
“Do unto others, what you want others to do unto you”
The reason for such an outbreak of unhappiness over the whole saga is not because it is about Christianity or gay or lesbian issues…. We have learned to live with one another in Singapore. Th real reason is the way it is done. We Singaporean are people who can adapt. We can accept changes as long as it is for a better future.
But we as conservative as we are, we also belief that we can reason things out.
The New EXCO have not engaged in any discussion with old AWARE staff of their so-call deviation from the original objective before the AGM.
They made claims of AWARE promoting alternative lifestyle and showed they were troubled by it but they never wrote a single letter to MOE.
They are all new members and they are in AWARE for not more than 5 months.
Their so-called mentor has been hiding behind the scene until she has no choice but to show herself.
They lied to the public about their intentions even lied that they do not know one another until the AGM.
All these behaviors troubled Singaporean. Singaporean love peace, we always want to solve any problem peaceably. Why the hostile act? Why not have dialogue first? Why the sudden takeover? This questions keeps running through our minds. We cannot blame the public for reacting against it because we smell something fishy here.
We cannot blame Singaporean for being alarmed because the New EXCO broke the peaceful lines that we have drawn and maintained for so many years. A line we will not cross to maintain peace and order here. A line that many have worked very hard to maintain has been broken.
I seriously felt that the Singapore Christian has been misrepresented in this saga. A normal Christian or a Church will not will not accept such actions as being Godly or Christian-like. Thus the stand of NCCS. Such people or church will use one or two issues to prove their case, but they will never show you their true agenda and how they misuse trust and abuse their power to reach where they are now..
In this saga, actually nobody wins. We all lose. The trust for one another that we have built and the unity as a nation has been set back quite a distance due to this group of inconsiderate people. Tomorrow there might be more damage done if Churches get involve by sending their member to support this cause. This is something, we all hate to see.
sliim,
that’s akin to saying either you’re taleban or not, if we take the full spectrum of how you would define fundamentalism.
of course, it would be interesting to see how you work this out in your reply.
Hey ppl… whether you like it or not, the facts is all out there for you to see… Definitely, the church is INVOLVE in this saga… Definitely, the new ex-co, the pastor has been LYING to the people… Well whats there to talk abt? This ppl should be detain under ISA for creating hatred with their hidden agenda and motives. Singapore is NOT under their god. Its a FREE & SECULAR country where ppl are free to practice their own religion and believes…
If they not happy with AWARE, why not set up their own association? Why must they infiltrate and hijack it? Where is the self respect of this so called Christians???
# 82) JL,
“what’s peace brilliant excuse?”
Read his post #1 in the following thread:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/toc-perspectives-views-on-aware/
Now that the MOE has started the investigation on the sex education in Sec schools – has it not met the key issue of new aware?
Should they not step down now?
What will they ask for next? Higher pay for committee members? – like their high paying pastors?
Pastor apologises for misusing pulpit
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/317519.asp
SENIOR pastor of the Church Of Our Saviour Derek Hong has issued a public apology for using the pulpit to give backing to the Association of Women for Action and Research’s (Aware) executive committee in their dispute with the group’s previous leadership.
“My actions on the pulpit have aroused some tension in this saga,” he said, “I now stand corrected. I undertake to be more sensitive to similar situations in the future.”
Hackles were raised recently when he encouraged female churchgoers to “be engaged” and support Aware president Josie Lau and “her sisters” in the women advocacy group, in a weekend sermon posted on the church’s website.
Last Sunday, the pastor also invited his congregation to pray for Aware president Josie Lau and her husband, who stood next to Mr Hong on stage.
#86) Joel Low-
very well said.new guard please step down and start your own Christian Organisation. Please dun mix religion with the secular, Aware has a secular role to play, not a religious one.
# 86) Joel Low on May 2nd, 2009 2.13 am
We cannot blame Singaporean for being alarmed because the New EXCO broke the peaceful lines that we have drawn and maintained for so many years. A line we will not cross to maintain peace and order here. A line that many have worked very hard to maintain has been broken.
Thumbs up for your comment!
The new Exco are underestimating the power of social justice.
Hope the government will take note that the enormous group of self-restrained individuals are also watching its (the government’s) reactions and stand on the new Exco’s affective, sneaky and scheming conduct which is the major cause of the current social tensions.