Constance Singam tearing as she speaks about what AWARE means to her.
“Really what was so wonderful about AWARE, is that 25 years have been 25 years of friendship, support and empowerment. I grew in AWARE, and I know what it is to be an AWARE member. And that’s the sad part of it…that trust is gone.”
That is what AWARE is, we empower each other, we support each other. And that friendship…which is why I was there these 24 years and why I keep coming back because of that.
AWARE is a feminist organization. And what are feminist values? We give a chance, we respect, we support each other, we empower each other. Yes, you’re right, I am saddened by what’s happening, and those values aren’t being respected, and that culture is not being respected”.
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
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that was becos you are in a special and fanstastic category all by yourself, Zefly. Go easy on the horn stroking though, eh? Distressed unicorn may go to the Thiomentor with a complaint and we’d have to start with this circus all over again.
Slim, the tirelessness is the obsessive’ s trademark trait
Cause : A lack of life, friends, love,self-awareness, sense of proportion, cognitive dissonance?
@ 129) mirax on April 28th, 2009 12.20 pm
thanks, mirax. now let us go and drink tea under Zefly’s rainbow-coloured tree and say hi to his unicorn.
@ 130) sllim on April 28th, 2009 12.33 pm
i’m afraid so too, sllim. he even refuses to talk to me nowadays… *sniffs*
@ 128) HT on April 28th, 2009 11.40 am
no, HT, it is because you fear your inner arborophile bogeyman that you preach against tree hugging. you should just admit it then come join us to sit under Zefly’s rainbow-coloured coconut tree and have tea. don’t forget to invite Eeyore on the way.
Tj,
We should all raise our cups of chai to Mary Wollstonecraft, the 250th anniversary of whose birth fell yesterday.
ALL HAIL MARY!
145) tj on April 28th, 2009 10.01 pm
Thank you and thanks to all of you who have contributed to the voice of reason. Yes, I freely admit my fears and lets sit under Zefly’s rainbow-coloured tree for tea, free from strange happenings and secret agendas.
aw, mirax! I’m sad that I’m not among the rational either… XD
perhaps I need to be more active… mmm
OMG, you guys are a riot! lol
This thread has deviated out of proportion.
Curious, my advice to you is to leave it. Pro-Life theology can never be appreciated by anyone outside the faith. They have no inkling of an idea why you place so much importance on protecting a life. They have a pro-choice ideology to uphold so that they can free themselves from the guilt of prematurely ending a life – under the pretext of a logical “I have a choice” reasoning.
For the record, I too am pro-Life and I too believe in the mysterious ways of the Almighty God, whose ways are beyond my ways, and for which we strive to understand Him each day, as much as He already knows us.
Yours is an argument that is very much in line with what Ceasar had asked of Jesus when he questioned Him, “What is Truth?”. Your reply has to be the same as Jesus’s.
To the rest, I write this as an advice to Curious and I do not want to invite a debate toward my comments. Thank you very much.
Strange going ons. What has pro-life theology got to do with Dr FJ’s statistics??
Actually it’s not that strange and my question is rhetorical.
I do not believe in abortion, infidelity, etc etc. I extend ‘pro-life’ theology to include making life livable for other people. But i believe it has to be balanced with the understanding of ‘choice’. Who is anybody to take away free will which God himself has given to everyone? (but with an understanding that people whose exercise of free will causes death and injury and theft has to be put away)
I can only gently nudge people towards the ‘right’ direction with right conduct, speech and thought (but I’ll freely admit I’m not the best example), not hit them on the head repeatedly.
Dear Zefly (have to address you this way coz there’s another Joshua in our midst), that is the choice you have decided for yourself, and because it is your choice, others must respect it.
People who are pro-life have also excercised their right to choose and they have chosen to uphold the sanctity of life. In the same manner therefore, their choice has to be respected. I hope you exercise your pro-choice stance and give room to the pro-lifers and allow them the choice they made for themselves ;)
I hope we do not have to reopen the line of argument that goes along “but he said this and that!”. In your own words, which you have only recently taught me, can we agree to disagree?
Let us return to our focus which is the trust being lost by the action of the group of women from COOS.
Thank you.
“I hope you exercise your pro-choice stance and give room to the pro-lifers and allow them the choice they made for themselves ;)”
And what is their choice? To practice it among themselves or extend it to everyone? Your right to extend your arm ends at my nose.
Using an analogy – If my (future) teenage daughter gets pregnant because she wasn’t careful, it is up to ME as a parent to talk her out of an abortion. It’s up to ME to tell her that life is a gift of God etc etc… It is not up to some organisation I don’t even belong to to make it illegal and impossible for her to get an abortion, simply because they believe in upholding the sanctity of life.
You SEE the difference?
In another words, germani,
the point of contention isn’t how we all differ as to whether Life begins at birth or conception, (I believe in the latter), or whether there is a gay gene (I know too little to say) – The point is, what happens next?
And this is how it leads to ‘THE TRUST IS GONE’.
Because there is an unspoken agreement in general that however one sees the issues of life and gender preference, one can debate vigorously, but ONE DOESN’T CROSS THAT LINE WHICH MAKES it difficult for another person to practice his views and choices.
THAT is why the TRUST is lost.
The difference between ‘pro-lifers’ and ‘pro-choices’ isn’t so much about what defines life or gender pref, many pro-choicers I know believe in the sanctity of life – some have even chosen to become single parents despite the social stigma – The difference is that Pro-choicers trusts in people’s abilty to make sound choices, to make mistakes, and learn from them most of the them, and Pro-lifers don’t.
Your statement ‘They have a pro-choice ideology to uphold so that they can free themselves from the guilt of prematurely ending a life – under the pretext of a logical “I have a choice” reasoning’ just smacks of utter lack of compassion for the people who are haunted by the stigma of guilt when they resort to abortion because they have no choice. Even if they had done it under unsound mind, our role as Christians is to free them from guilt, NOT to chain them to eternal shame.
thank you.
152) gemami
1″Curious, my advice to you is to leave it.
Thanks Gemami. That is a sound advice. That was why I said you rock!
2″Pro-Life theology can never be appreciated by anyone outside the faith.”
Nevertheless, we shall never give up hope nor should we say “margaritas ante porcos.”
3″Yours is an argument that is very much in line with what Ceasar had asked of Jesus when he questioned Him, “What is Truth?”. Your reply has to be the same as Jesus’s.”
I think His reply was ” I am The Truth.”
But I just an ordinary guy so my clinical answer to those who dice with death and destruction shall only be a verse from Afred Tennyson’s poem “Charge of the Light Brigade” :
“Forward, the Light Brigade!” (Read GLBT)
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Someone had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.”
And to those who are pro-life I say never forget you are on the right side of the equation. So to you and those who are passing by, including the GLBTs I like to invite you all to see this audio visual presentation on ” why Life is Beautiful !”
http://www.greatdanepromilitary.com/Life/index.htm
Disclaimer : This AV was sent to me by a friend. Though it is from a pro-military website, I am not pro-military. I am pro-peace but will not hesitate to fight for the Truth, because “Truth enlightens man’s intelligence and shapes his freedom.”
154) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on April 29th, 2009 4.10 pm
Very well said.
Free will should not infringe upon the freedom of others to choose what they believe is best for themselves.
Just because some fight for the right of each individual to make their own choices as responsible adults doesn’t mean that they are indiscriminate and hypocritical murderers. (as germani seems to be implying)
The pro-choice group is very diverse and simply cannot be pigeonholed… much less stuffed into such a narrow-minded and evil little stereotype.
cheers.
154) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on April 29th, 2009 12.33 pm
1″ Who is anybody to take away free will which God himself has given to everyone?” …Zefly
The state, for one, if anyone violates the Penal Code.
2″ (but with an understanding that people whose exercise of free will causes death and injury and theft has to be put away)” …Zefly
And not forgetting folks who carry deadly communicable disease like SARS, TB, leprosy, smallpox, and now Swine Flu! They need to be put into quarantine to prevent the disease from spreading to the general public at large.
3″I can only gently nudge people towards the ‘right’ direction with right conduct, speech and thought (but I’ll freely admit I’m not the best example), not hit them on the head repeatedly.” …Zefly
That sound byte will go down very well in any unsuspecting community, but I see you have contradicted yourself when you posted this “scary” comment in the thread “MOE replies to questions about AWARE’s CSE programme”. I quote :
“53) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on April 29th, 2009 9.29 am
Fundies are dangerous not because they are stupid but because they are more inclined to act on it.”
That was hardly an example of “gently nudge people towards the ‘right’ direction with right conduct, speech and thought.”
IMO,that was clearly an example of an insensitive religious rhetoric, stereotyping and childish name-calling.
All posters should be reminded not to mix religion with politics in AWARE’s internal affairs, because the high-octane mixture is an explosive!
Thanks for adding to my comments Curious, now, if you carefully read the fine-print-
“(but I’ll freely admit I’m not the best example)”
means sometimes neither am I am a good example. I KNOW I am not righteous, dude. And I thank God that I am not because the day I say I am is the day I start to see things in black and white only.
Now as for you quoting me – “Fundies are dangerous not because they are stupid but because they are more inclined to act on it.””
(It’s amazing you actually took the time to look through other threads, just to find something to refute me… really dedicated….)
I think you should respect TOC instead of copying and pasting this because TOC said already cannot use the ‘f’ word. And in copying it from one post to another, you are also guilty of fanning the flames :P
Next, if you are not a f….e, you have no reasons to get so worked up. (and you can really cut down on the exclamation marks). I mean, you are neither bigoted, nor are you unintelligent, because you said so. And I have yet to see a single person say that they are ‘f…..es’, so why would anyone get upset? ONLY the people who see themselves in what is written get upset dude.
And seriously, stop using the religious red card whenever people criticize others who practice extremism in the name of religion.
If you can’t tell the difference between extremism and religion then you can consult my rainbow-colored tree. (and btw, I put that statement on my facebook and many people actually agree… but they aren’t credible sources like Dr Mojo In the Mountain…)
Oh. And hugs also.
Curious,
At any rate, let’s close this thread already shall we? It’s gone on for far too long and is bordering on the ridiculous, (not to mention quite trouble to search for this article among the ‘previous articles) and I will admit to having a part to play in it. If I had offended you, I can only say it’s easier to piss people off when you’re not facing the person you are addressing. You, like MOST of the people I disagreed with, are probably good people too, and we probably are more similar to each other than we care to admit. (eg, refusing to back down,,, EVER!!! lol) The only reason why we even bother is because we care enough to stand for what we believe in. (backhand compliment to myself, pat pat)
Topics of rights, religion, and ‘morals’, life and death, are always going to be emotionally charged whether you like it or not. They bring out the best, they bring out the worst.
I’ll see you in some other thread. Can’t promise I won’t be mean though.
Cheers. :)
61) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)
1″Thanks for adding to my comments Curious, now, if you carefully read the fine-print- “(but I’ll freely admit I’m not the best example)”
Don’t thank me and don’t try to make any lame excuse. You are responsible for the insensitive and derogatory religious remarks and I see you have not made any apologies, and you have no remorse at all. It’s religious subterfuge!
Then it got worse. You led gullible people to believe that you only “gently nudge people towards the ‘right’ direction with right conduct, speech and thought.”
What a BS artist ! That why I said you are an enigma, wrapped round a riddle in a maze of conundrums!
2″Now as for you quoting me – “F…are dangerous not because they are stupid but because they are more inclined to act on it.”
There you said it again! Wow! How insensitive can one get?
3(It’s amazing you actually took the time to look through other threads, just to find something to refute me… really dedicated….)”
I looked at the thread and since some of the posts, like yours, are laden with “insensitive religious rhetorics, stereotyping and childish name-calling” I decided to give it a wide berth. But it shows that hypocrisy is not hard to expose and one can run but, in this era of the internet ,one cannot hide!
4 “I think you should respect TOC instead of copying and pasting this because TOC said already cannot use the ‘f’ word.”
And you are exempted from using it? That’s a laugh. Why the double standard?
5″And in copying it from one post to another, you are also guilty of fanning the flames.”
The damage was already done. What was important was to expose your sanctimonious hypocrisy so that you will stop more such insensitive remarks.
6″And seriously, stop using the religious red card whenever people criticize others who practice extremism in the name of religion.”
It is you who should desist from making potentially inflammable religious remarks, not me ! Can you name anyone at Aware who “practice extremism in the name of religion.”? Where is your proof?
All I can say again is that if you mix religion with politics, the mixture is a high octane explosive that can blow up in your facebook! This is not a game. Its not about a childish rainbow-colored tree. Its about inflammable, religious remarks, stupid!
Curious,
Seriously, get off your Rush Limbaugh impersonation already. I won’t be revisiting this thread, so that probably will save you from wasting exclamation marks.
good night, god bless
162) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on April 29th, 2009 11.51 pm
1″Topics of rights, religion, and ‘morals’, life and death, are always going to be emotionally charged whether you like it or not.”
Then why fan the emotions by pouring more kerosene to the fire with insensitive and inflammable, religious rhetoric?
2″I’ll see you in some other thread. Can’t promise I won’t be mean though. ”
You can take your best shot .Mean people don’t frighten me. They are losers because they are so preoccupied with taunting, name calling, and innuendos and not with the substantive issues, that they cannot see the woods for the trees. Its the lying and subterfuge that are more nuanced.
164) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on April 30th, 2009 1.57 am
1 “Seriously, get off your Rush Limbaugh impersonation already.”
I don’t do impersonations.Only mean people do. So why don’t you get off your David Duke impersonation, now that this thread is closed?
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