From the Straits Times:
BANK executive Josie Lau, 48, was appointed the new president of the Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware) on Wednesday night at a meeting of the new team in charge.
She is vice-president of consumer banking group cards and unsecured loans for DBS Bank.
But shortly after she announced that she was president, posed for pictures and made brief comments to reporters, her employer expressed unhappiness that she had taken the top post at Singapore’s best-known women’s group.
And Ms Lau did not have the green light to be Aware president.
‘We believe that as a vice-president in DBS, she already has a challenging job with many responsibilities, and the role of president would demand too much of her time and energy,’ a spokesman said last night.
Full report here.
Read also: The new guard consolidates by Today.
A STATEMENT issued by a DBS spokesman:
‘The bank requires all employees to obtain approval before running for or taking on an external appointment, and many DBS employees are involved in community work and/or support various charity organisations in their own personal capacity.
‘Josie was informed prior to the Aware election this evening that although the bank supports her involvement in Aware as council member, in her own personal capacity, DBS is, however, not supportive of her intent to run for president of Aware. We believe that as a vice-president in DBS, she already has a challenging job with many responsibilities, and the role of president would demand too much of her time and energy.’
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DBS involved in anti-gay advertisements controversy in December 2008:
From My Paper:
BARELY three weeks after controversy erupted over DBS’ support of the family- charity group, Focus on the Family Singapore (FOTF), the name of the group is again appearing in DBS advertisements for a credit- card promotion (refer to example on top).
References to FOTF have been pulled from the bank’s promotions after a boycott of DBS by gay activists, who claimed that the charity was “anti-gay” and “anti-abortion”.
Within People Like Us (PLU), we had just about sorted out our group position when the reporter from the Business Times called regarding DBS Bank and Focus on the Family (FOTF). Admittedly, we were slower off the starting block than the “young turks” on SiGNeL, PLU’s email list, who had been seething for two weeks.
They were furious when the saw the Christmas credit card promotion of DBS: “For every set of *limited edition bears* redeemed, DBS will contribute a sum towards *Focus on the Family*, a charity dedicated to helping children and families thrive” – words taken from the bank’s website, mid-November 2008.
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In wat way she is a zealot or fundamentalist??? The US have many many republican leaders who are pro-life and anti gay…..they are not zealots, they practice wat it is essential to many christian denominations.
yaya, islam bashing is essential to many christian denominations too. wanna bring that over to SG?
erm…………islam is in fact partly christian bashing too, no offense to the muslims…………in fact all religions are bashing each other though behind each other backs in Singapore or the US and in many parts of the world, they dun do it openly…………neither do the politicians which i meantioned above nor josie did that……and by the way, interesting, which christian denominations do that????
I support anti-abortion. Its not just about religion. Abortion has its many disadvantages. Is it fair for the father if the woman abort his child without his consent? Some men have voiced their frustration on their wives or girlfriend who without his consent abort his child. At such a crucial time of an accidental pregnancy, a woman does not have a right mind to think and its dangerous that she can be swayed into a decision by cruel pro-abortion “friends” only for the woman to regret her decision later. Someone confessed to me that she has made a distraught single 5-month plus pregnant friend to reluctantly abort. The trauma can never be forgotton by both the friend and the pregnant woman. The abortion was carried out while the woman was very much awake and the foetus came out awake left to die slowly. And the problem is, all this trauma was not what the once pregnant woman has decided with a full right mind herself. It was forced into her to make the decision when she was at a point when she was too distraught to think, by you people called “pro-abortionist”. Its not about religion, both women will suffer psychologically for the rest of their lives.
{“Ark” wrote on April 17th, 2009 9.53 am #102: ” so DBS is headed by religious zealots and fundamentalists? spread the ‘good’ word and they will fire her in no time”}
RELIGIOUS SECULARISM IN ATTACK MODE!
And spear-headed by this champion secularist and arch-trouble-maker “Ark”. Well, I am a Christian, and I have to bring light to the controversy and lower the temperatures through my introduction of the prayer of Prophet Suleiman (i.e. King Solomon) as recorded in the Quran in An-Naml 27:19 and Al-Hujurut 49:13.
You secularists, tell me, will you—-anything wrong with the Prayer of Prophet Suleiman which I have been promoting? The secretary of the Singapore Buddhist Federation wrote on 1/9/06 to tell me that he liked it very much as he said it was “indeed beautiful and inspiring.” My Hindu friends like it too. If Buddhists and Christians, Hindus and others can accept it and like it very much, why should secularists like you find it repugnant? Why are you people so pathologically intolerant, and baying for Ms Josie’s blood and inciting DBS to sack her? Are you anti-Islam?
If you can’t accept this beautiful Quranic prayer, then of course you would also be unable to accept THE BEAUTIFUL SECULARISM of the late Deng Xiaoping too. Here are his immortal words: “It doesn’t matter whether the cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.” That’s why you wanted to have DBS management sacked Ms Josie Lau as your upside-down way to show us how enlightened and tolerant you secularists are of people who think differently from you.
So stop spreading your bloody lies and great mischief will you, “Ark”, to incite Muslims to hate Christians by lying that “islam bashing is ESSENTIAL to many christian denominations too.” You are terribly venal! If you are speaking the truth, then why am I, a Christian, promoting this transcendtally beautiful Quranic prayer of Prophet Suleiman?
So “Inspire me, Lord, to be thankful to Thee for Thy favours to me and my parents to do good deeds which will please Thee. Admit me, through Thy mercy, to be among Thy righteous.” An-Naml 27:19. “For the noblest in God’s sight is he/she who is the most righteous.” Al-Hujurut 49:13.
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{“Ark” wrote on April 17th, 2009 10.03 am #104: “yaya, islam bashing is essential to many christian denominations too. wanna bring that over to SG?}
Obama said “We are not a Christian, Muslim or Buddhist Country but the United States of American! Same for Singapore!
LKY said People are movtivated by Gold, God and Goodness. So Singapore are movtivated by “What”
Why waste your time discuss something that can’t be proved just accept what every you had.
If your actions does not cause harm to others, you should freely able to express your views in an open society! Be tolerance of other ppls view don’t be like PAP!
is dbs pro-gay ??
why are they wading in so publicly??
slapping your staff on the front page of the national newspaper juz because she was selected to head a two bit women’s activist group is juz PR weird!
lol, it’s so easy to bait the fundamentalists into digging their own graves… the AWARE usurp will be a good example of how you can win a battle, but lose the war. Enjoy your six months like the japanese..
#108,
You must have been left out of the ark that you are so bitter about it. You swipe at anyhting and you can’t distinguish between fundamentalism and extremism. You distort to suit yourself although the new AWARE won the seats democratically.
Are you a gay, ark?
I would urge all Christians to boycott DBS. Let us unite and rise up for justice. If anyone were to lead a protest at Hong Lim Park, please let me know. I’ll be there.
DBS is a coward. First, they cowed under the threat of those gays fundamentalists and withdrew their support of FOTF (later reinstated…see how confused they are? That’s what happen when you are bankrupt of moral values). Then they mercilessly sacked 900 employees and now they are threatening/bullying a poor lady who was democratically elected to be the president of AWARE. What a shameful organisation! My advice to Josie: Shake the dust off your feet and leave that pro-gay, pro-abortion, cowardly organisation. You are meant for better things.
“110) justiceplease on April 17th, 2009 1.05 pm
Let us unite and rise up for justice.”
calling gays fundamentalists, you must be out of your little mind. their voices are so muffled.
For once, have you ever thought that justice indeed has been done – perhaps not in the way you may like it and not in the favor of your kakis – and done so without anyone needing to raise any voice. and that is justice.
107) jennifer on April 17th, 2009 11.08 am
It is only weird to you but not to many others who could clearly appreicate that certain people just do not understand the dynamics of what they are treading into.
I wonder why if one thinks pushing for a certain belief would think that one has the right to do it with liberty that but would not give the same liberty to the opposing camp, and called it seeking justice!
There is a difference between anti gay activities and being anti-gay people, a different between anti-abortion acts and against ppl who have gone through it or people advocating it. In short, it is not the person but the acts.
Think about it
I would be interested to hear why DBS chose to publicly speak out against its staff on a private matter, and why it vacillated on “Focus On The Family”
To D 71 and D 73
I don’t think you know Singapore law well enough to comment. The law does not say that ‘a foetus is not legally alive’ . You may want to check out sections 312 to 315 of the Penal Code. To cause a miscarriage is an offence. This is the general rule.
Just because the termination of pregnancy act allows, under certain conditions, for an abortion to be carried out does not detract from the fact that human live begins from the moment of conception.
If we want to talk about Human Rights, lwe can start with the rights of the most defenceless in our midst, the unborn.
Why is Ms Josie rapped for taking up the top post at AWARE while DBS has maintained a dignified silence so far over another staff Mr Liang Eng Hwa who is also a PAP MP for Holland-Bukit Panjang GRC?
Mr Liang Eng Hwa is the Manageing Director of the Treasury and Markets Division of DBS bank. He joined DBS in 1993 and became a PAP MP in 2006. We did not call DBS making a similar public statement in 2006 when Mr Liang contested in the general elections under the PAP banner.
116) Simple Simon on April 18th, 2009 12.49 am
Why not name a few more who share the same faith as you. I guess it is not too difficult for good researchers like you to find out.
You all still don’t get it don’t cha’?
Look around you. The people worshipping the cross are slowly but surely taking over every fabric of this country! From economic to political and now social, ie AWARE. This same group goes to the same place to worship, listens to music that praise the sun in the sky and live their lives around that book.
These are the same people who share the same twisted religious beliefs of Dubya and his Republican neocons when they took over the United States in 2000. These are the same people who will disregard people of different beliefs because they think theirs are the truth.
Josie Lau = Sarah Palin
I think that explains it all.
The History Books We Have Today
Hitler once thought that his vision of the world was right.
He can’t stand seeing a contaminated society
He called out for the purest of the pure
He called for the young and bright
He called for the will to fight
To fight with all their might
To fight the contaminated
To fight the incomplete
To fight the impure
Hitler once thought that his vision of the world was perfect
He can’t stand walking through a damaged society
He called for the fittest of the fit
He called for the morally upright
He led them to the battle field
A battle against the imperfect
A battle against the immoral
A battle against the incomplete
A battle against the impure
Hitler once thought his actions to clean the world is right
He can’t stand living in a filthy society
He called for the bravest of the brave
He called for the most determined
He led them into the clean pages
Of the history books we have today
Perhaps the world is contaminated
Perhaps the world is filthy
Perhaps the world is incomplete
Perhaps the world is impure
Perhaps the world is damaged
But Hitler isn’t the only one
Who thinks he is forever in the right
Who thinks that might is right
Who will fight for his moral codes
Who will fight for his perfect world
Where by process of elimination
He lives alone forever
In the history books we have today
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
Dedicated to those in pursuit to establish morality through immoral means in the past, the present and future, regardless of race, gender, language or religion
By Rafiz Hapipi 18 April 09
118) You still don’t get it, don’t cha’? on April 18th, 2009 10.25 am
Oh , poor gay or gal or guy, it looks like the Christians are taking over the country and they are imposing their beliefs on you, force you, nail you to the cross if you don’t yield to them. Frightening , isn’t it? If they really do, it will be really heaven on earth. At least we know it is not a reign of terror, no talibanising the women from societal activities. AWARE stands up for women and not gays maybe lesbains.
Hi, stumbled on this interesting spate of comments, and just thought I’d give my two cents. Got to get back to studying for exams, so I will keep it short.
I do not intend my comments to be authoritative, or to impose my views, but I feel the debate has kind of degenerated into a personal tit-for-tat. To me, this detracts from the crucial issues at stake here and distracts from the need to find a constructive solution or response to issues/problems we all share a stake in. My intention is to, perhaps, achieve some reconciliation
The way I see it, there are Christian fundamentalists, and there are gay right fundamentalists. I am a Christian, but I find the rhetoric that is thrown about by both groups of fundamentalists (both Christian and pro-gay) a source of personal discomfort. There isn’t really a clear-cut solution to these issues, and I wish we’d see that the issues are bigger than ourselves and our egos.
Someone earlier in the thread brought up the idea of a ‘secular state’ and the idea that we should not be mixing ‘religion’ and ‘politics’. I do not claim to be an authority, but I will suggest that “secular” is capable of different shades of meaning and I don’t think it means that you should be suppressing your personal take on issues in the public sphere even if it is religiously influenced. We all have different takes on issues, whatever the source, and surely it would be snobbery to prefer one view over another before hearing the other out. Singapore does claim to be a democracy after all, and the whole point of valuing democratic speech in the democratic process is that there will be differing opinions. As a democratic people, I will suggest that the way forward should be gathered out of a multitude of opinions, rather than any pre-selection of views.
My point really is, don’t shoot somebody down because they don’t agree with you. My hope is to see a more open and critical debate on the issues at stake rather people trying to get a one-up over each other by putting the other side down. It would be great to see more civility, with issues debated on their merits. I have confidence that civil society and the democratic process can yield a peaceful solution to our differences in views, if only we’d agree to disagree.
Faithfully,
Jonathan
“It would be great to see more civility, with issues debated on their merits. I have confidence that civil society and the democratic process can yield a peaceful solution to our differences in views, if only we’d agree to disagree.”
Very good close. so how would you rate on the scale of 1 to 10 on the civil society and democratic process that we have as far as excercising them in the public arena (a platform enabling wider and important coverage for all to see clearly and know and to judge collectively) is concerned.
your answer will more or less determine whether your statement is achievable.
120) Peace on April 18th, 2009 12.19 pm
“AWARE stands up for women and not gays maybe lesbains.”
That was in the past and that is what the name presently suggests. A cup of coffee is still coffee but you may still add lemon, lime, chilli powder to suit your unusual taste as long as you have the power to do so.
why maybe lesbians, why aren’t you so sure yourself. if gays and lesbians are excluded by organisations who will only serve straights. can they (the gays and lesbians) openly form an organisation to attend to their own interest. if not, why not. their mere existence does not match up nicely into the whole equation on the legal presence of organisation which serve straights but to exclude all others.
Isn’t a lesbian a woman biologically? AWARE is inclusive in so far of their kind or have at least 90% feminine traits.
What’s your idea of a feminine trait?
“At least we know it is not a reign of terror, no talibanising the women from societal activities.”
Sure, wait till the hand is shown on a woman’s right to an abortion.
And Counseling sessions for repentant Lesbians who cure their homosexual tendencies by the power of prayer.
All very “inclusive” activities to further the religious agenda.
Fact is, if they believe they have divine guidance in doing what they do, you think anything else matters??
Strange religion is played up here. They did not break any rules in the written Constitution. They were energise in their cause and their Anti-Gay stance is correct in long term interest. They believed in promoting women welfare and cause – these are morally correct stance.
The old council are made up of oldies who are dead wood to woman cause and they are correctly dethrone for doing few and engaging in niceties with no real progress.
Just read the news today, this urged me to write something regarding the issue discussed. It is my first time writing in a forum as I would want to have my view heard. Totally dismayed by the new members’ actions to grab the power of the association in such a way that it seems they want to use the association’s name for other purposes.
How could those voters vote 9 out of 12 positions for those newly signed up members and shockingly the 3 positions given to the old members, who have the previous experience and credibility in the association, were those that of “excess”. It made me believed that it seems the result of voting was known to the voters before it happen as it looked to be pre-organised.
This leads to question such as were they there to use aware branding for other purposes?? Certainly not the purpose of aware that the old exco have for the association, as not only they refused any help from the previously experienced exco but they also put a barrier between the ex exco and the association, which they had build it over years.
I also do agree with DBS for their actions and I guess the episode does reflect badly on them in regard to FOCUS, not taking decisive action though their employee flouted co’s rule and having of their employee in a much debated controversy. Unless DBS see this episode as marketing tools yet I don’t see them gaining anything positive from it.
As this thread involves sensitive religious view, hopefully the people here are sensible enough not to take it too far as our country has diversity of religion. I just hope the episode will end well and there will be new election within aware with newly form committee are of various races, religious and culture, yet the same vision that aware was initially created.
“I just hope the episode will end well and there will be new election within aware with newly form committee are of various races, religious and culture, yet the same vision that aware was initially created.”
Agreed on this statement.
Will this new generation of Singaporeans be doomed to re-learn the lessons of the 60s? I sure hope not!
Burongkuku,
Strange that you mentioned that that being anti-gay is correct in “their” long term interest. That’s where the whole problem is. The issue has nothing about their personal choice of religion values nor how they go about practising them. It has to do with them wanting to impose their values on the rest of the community.
If you recall correctly, since Josie and friends wanted to speak on behalf of Women rights, you would know that there are many types of women, including different types of sexual preferences. The “their” doesn’t represent those women that Josie thinks should be helped, but all groups of women, homosexuals included, if you read the aim of AWARE correct, which is a very inclusive vision.
Morally correct stance, yes, but from who’s perspective? As the saying goes one person’s freedom fighter is another man/woman’s terrorist, the world is really a big place to include everyone.
i think that homosexuals should find their voice elsewhere and not hijack AWARE to promote their cause. Common women have enough to contend with balancing work, family and community then focus on what happens between same sex partners behind closed doors.
i am all for pro-women, pro-family and pro-Singapore. It’s time to return to fundamentals!
# 131 jennifer
What about pro-people ? pro-men? and pro-diversity ? as god has intended.
When religious people get into power, what happens?
Here is an example in Turkey.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/16/turkeys-science-board-cen_n_175442.html
Think we need to understand a few things about fundamentalists. They are typically people without the mental capacity to understand new situations and new ideas. Unable to tolerate ambiguity.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061222-000001.xml
Fundamentalism is a relatively modern concept, and did not exist in the days of Christ. It’s a knee jerk reaction against modernity, borne of a frustration of their ability to understand the modern pluralistic world we live in.
It is difficult to understand how a “pro-life” stance has anything to do with woman rights. Abortion is a woman’s right to decide whether or not to bring a life into the world, whether or not to partake in the duties of raising the kid, which is after all mainly in the domain of the woman. It takes a large stretch of the imagination to imagine that anti-abortion is consistent with women’s rights.
I think there is a group of Singaporean or bloggers here who have completely lost the original arguments of pro-life debate. It stemmed originally from women’s very battered role in society where men and society at large will put down every life dependent on their whim and fancies or on their religious laws.
Look at the Taleban treatment of women…. we are talking about a movement that starts from there.
And here, we have people who choose to nit pit on so called ‘higher order’ problems like whether a foetus is human or living thing or whether a women is entitled to sleep with another women… My goodness, what has society generated into?
Well, if this society or members has generated into focussing on discussions on such matters instead of looking at the bigger and more pressing problems out there, something is wrong and will continue to go very wrong if it is not corrected to bring it back into focus.
Congratulations to the woman folks in Singapore.
Coming hot on the heels of the promotion of LHH, we are seeing a lot of activities associated to AWARE, shaking off the slumber of the status quo.
Having worked in 4 continents before coming back home, I just have an observation – face is so very important here and it is one of the baggages to really moving forward. Not letting go, and being presumptious of one’s inherent position and seniority , are also the source of much conflicts in handking over.
In extreme situations, Robert Mugabe is a good example of the African style of wanting to be forever in charge
Nearer Singapore, one can see the resurgence of Malaysia’s ex, and longest serving PM
All the best to you all ladies – you can follow or set your own role models.
I have read from newspaper that she did not answer to phone calls, and did not reply to E-mails sent to her, I think DBS is right to say that her workload is too heavy, and can’t cope with the extra workload given to her at AWARE. If not, why she suddenly just disappear and nowhere to be traced. Just like Mas Selamat……….
120) Peace on April 18th, 2009 12.19 pm 118
Oh , poor gay or gal or guy, it looks like the Christians are taking over the country and they are imposing their beliefs on you, force you, nail you to the cross if you don’t yield to them. Frightening , isn’t it? If they really do, it will be really heaven on earth. At least we know it is not a reign of terror, no talibanising the women from societal activities.
There you have it people! Finally a Christian saying out loud what is deep down in their heart : that they want to ensure no other belief but theirs exist. That theirs is the best, the greatest and the final word. Such ingrained arrogance is why I will never accept this religion into my life. Sure I’ll go to hell by their book, but in mine, I will be going to heaven.
This is exactly the reason why the ordinary people must oppose the new AWARE committee because they represent the apex of these people.
138) See what I mean? on April 19th, 2009 4.23 pm
If you have a primary school english you know what I said isn’t what you twisted. I said “it looks like” and not that the christians are going to take over.It is poeple like you who cause trouble and misunderstanding . You twist it to suit your own agenda.
Yes, I think, the christians think their religion is the best and not second best. You mean, you think yours is second best? You must as well forget it if you think so.
You compromise your religion. You are not sure. Your belief is half baked. I pity you when reach your “heaven” for judgement you will be thrown into hell for compromising, for saying it is not the best. The sooner you are AWARE and wake up the better .
“Yes, I think, the christians think their religion is the best and not second best. You mean, you think yours is second best? You must as well forget it if you think so”
Perhaps we should take a step back & consider the possibility that there are many paths to Heaven, and that as long as you lead a just life, without encroaching on other peoples right to live their own lives, then you are already worthy of consideration.
If you stubbornly do not subscribe to a certain belief and are then condemned as a devil worshipper or placed on the express train to hell – well, all that sounds very Taliban-like in mindset unfortunately.
There maybe many roads to Rome but only one to heaven.
Christians are taking a big risk if it is not the right one , right? Putting all their eggs into that one basket is demonstration of their faith.
Anyway, no one forcing you to take that road if you think that is not for you. You think diversification reduces your risks, you may be right. In Singapore there is freedom of belief.
You think gathering as many credit points can get you a passport. Sorry, these credits are not transferable , like gaining entrance to a U.
I advise you get ready a Senior Counsel in case you need to advocate your case .
Many paths ? it is wishful thinking.
“You think gathering as many credit points can get you a passport. Sorry, these credits are not transferable , like gaining entrance to a U”
You miss the point. This is not about getting your passport stamped so that you have all bases covered for entry to Heaven.
It is about respecting the possibility that followers of other religions are embarking on spiritual paths that are most suited for them & that they will NOT be penalized as a result of the sincere & heartfelt choices they make in life.
“I advise you get ready a Senior Counsel in case you need to advocate your case .Many paths ? it is wishful thinking.”
Spoken with such authority… but then again, you forget who the Judge really is.
The majority of gays in Singapore are sensible people. They do not want trouble preferring to live their lives as “normally” and “quietly” as possible respecting the majority’s normal sexual oriemtation. As a nation, we live and let live and never persecute people of “different sexual orientation”. So why are some gays so dumb to react with so much hatred? Not smart! No smart!
To : Theonlinecitizen
Pl remove post no 143 and 144 for me. thanks
Ricky, they’re removed.. :)
To commenter who posted under the nick “Speedweed”: Pls do not post comments which are lengthy. Your comment was more than 1,200-words long and is thus disallowed. Pls shorten it to 500 words or less.
To everyone, please be mindful of our moderation policy: http://theonlinecitizen.com/moderation/
Thanks.
The Law should not protect Religion from people, The Law should protect people from Religion.
New AWARE = Anglican Church of Our Saviour?
Yes pretty much the church has snatched leadership of AWARE.
It is a coordinated effort by certain members of the same church to attempt to force their beliefs onto everyone else
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Based on the Strait TImes article, that means, the following are all attending Anglican Church of Our Saviour.
1. Josie Lau (President) and husband Alan Chin
2. Charlotte Wong (Vice-president)
3. Irene Yee (Committee member)
4. Jenica Chua (Honorary secretary)
5. Maureen Ong (Honorary treasurer)
6. Sally Ang (Assistant honorary secretary)
That is 6 posts out of the 11 posts (1 less from original line-up of 12, as committee member Josie Lau is now the President), where all the 5 decision posts – President, Vice-president, Honorary secretary, Honorary treasurer and Assistant honorary secretary are taken by the same clique..
http://blog.alicecheong.com/
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Refer to their site for their stand on the church’s stand on homosexuality.
http://www.coos.org.sg/index.php?sectnum=p1&coospg=coos_statement.html
#146 SpeedWeed
Thank You for the info. Without doubt, this is definitely a tragedy. Witneessing such shrewd power play here today, I am now more convinced than ever of the unofficial history of how Christianity enters Rome.
Just as aspersions as cast on how this group was stealthy in taking over AWARE, it would also seem that there is another force intent on bringing them down – and I don’t mean the old guard. I really don’t understand the more than extensive press coverage that has been wasted on this.
Having said that, it is always interesting when you see 2 Christians disputing what happened. They can’t both be giving true testimony, can they?
Cicero #143,
As much as majority of the gays do not like trouble, giving in to fundamentalists’ public advocacy of their anti-gay stance is setting a precedence for bully by organised religion.
To suffragette
Well, its not a fault of the many members old guard that they are open to being interviewed, whereas the only things that the press could even squeeze from the new members are one single press release and a uniform “no comment”.
PS: Use of religion as a platform is so passe. When in doubt, look at the person behind the facade.