Dear People,

I welcome this development. For too long, madrasahs have ignored science and maths. Todays ulamas need to be familiar with scientific issues. We no longer live in the 10th century. Indeed I would go so far as to say that Islamic Syariah itself needs to be relooked – in view of the changes in society due to the passage of time (1000 years !). And the madrasah system is the best place to begin any reformation.

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

What an eye-opening story. And we Singaporeans need to be told about it by a news report originating in a newspaper halfway around the world. I hope the papers in Singapore will pick up the story and find out how former students of Al Irsyad are faring in working life. I would love to hear their views on how their religious outlook fits into the demands of a modern secular sucess-driven Singapore, how their religion helps them to be tolerant of the foibles of their fellow men, Muslim and non-Muslim, how they view the extremist attitude of some of their fellow brethren, etc.

Exceprt from NYT article: Mohamed Muneer, 32, a chemistry teacher, said most of his former students had gone on to junior colleges or polytechnic schools, while some top students attended the National University of Singapore. “Many became administrators, some are teaching and some joined the civil service,” he said.

It’s sad that such great achievement by our Malay leaders and community has only received 2 comments so far.

It is not that the news wasn’t reported (“Madrasah gets new home”, ST, Jan 5 2009), but the most vocal people generally overlook fine things in life and only concentrate at criticisms. The Singapore news also doesn’t publicise as colourfully as overseas’.

#3

Another way of looking at it is that ST has so little credibility that when it reports something worthwhile, people think it is govmin propoganda.

Another way of looking at it is that anti-government people read all good local news negatively. What to do.

Another way of looking at it is that most non-Muslims, non-Malays do not want to comment for fear of inviting trouble. Race and religion are very very touchy subjects in Singapore ain’t it.

Good progress in my opinion… More of such schools should be openned all over Singapore.. One each in the North, South, East and West for a start…

Some “traditional” madrasahs should also be kept… Not all to be “advanced”.. I bet most of these student concentrating on science and maths are not concentrating on arabic as much… There should also be an education system to bring up the religious leaders who are good in arabic and other islamic knowledge too..

Dear People,

While I appreciate these developments, we must understand that in most other Muslim countries – madrasah education is still carried out unchanged in the traditional manner.

MUIS and Singapore does NOT define Islam. In other words – the rest of the Muslim world might not accept these developments as being anything positive. MUIS cannot come up with a version of Islam that is rejected by the rest of the Muslim world.

So – in a very real sense – Islam in Singapore is held back by the way other Muslim countries practice Islam. Remember – MUIS cannot issue a fatwa that is in flat contradiction to what the rest of the Muslim world thinks and practices.

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

Let’s be fair and give credit to our Muslim friends.
Have a read, they were at the top their league.
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/

What is sad today is the state of knowledge and progress in the Muslim world.
Is reglion to be blamed? Partly. But more so the leaders that run these countries.
The level of knowledge and contribution of the Muslim world is only like a tiny drop of water in the ocean. For the Muslim countries that have oil, do they fair any better, you make you own judgements. More can be done to move themselves forward and not through religion. It is only one aspect of our lives.

Lets not be negative… its good progress made… surely more can be done.. but this is a good step forward…

I find it rather ironic that the model of madrasah that is upheld is, in fact, that which de-emphasises the role of religion. In other words, what we see here is how an exemplary Muslim religious school is one that is less emphatically religious, in a sense.

I do think that balancing religion and other “secular” pursuits are worthwhile, but I just couldn’t help noticing the irony.

I wonder if it were possible for an unbridled pursuit of both Islam and secular subjects? Are the tenets of Islam structured such that devotion to them would inevitably drive a rift between the devout individual and “worldly pursuits”? Or, more optimistically, is fundamentalism simply an errant strain of religion that will fade away in time?

Allow me to add a little to the Kota Bahru Parahyangan Township (KBPT) just outside Bandung since it is one of the 2 locations referred to in the said NY Times article.
The KBPT has an educational component, and from the early master planning days, the private developer opted for vertical integration in implementation, ie from Madrasah, primary, secondary, high school , international school (with IB), and at later stages depending on demand – technical colleges, and a tertiary educational institution.
Once you get into the Township – a Science Building with an iconic Sun Dial will greet you.
On site today , you will find the Al Irsyad Satya Islamic School( thanks to MUIS), Al Azhar International Islamic School, St Aloysius School, Bandung International School, the Art & Sculpture School among other educational features.
If you are in Jakarta, do try to pay the KBPT at Bandung a visit – you will be amazed at how progressive Indonesia can be in terms of balance of religious and secular studies.

I’ll be interested if they do any reviews on the Bali Bomber trilogy

11) Wei,

“I do think that balancing religion and other “secular” pursuits are worthwhile, but I just couldn’t help noticing the irony. ”

There is nothing ironic unless one deems religion to be irreconcilable with science. I’m no scholar of religious history but during the Dark Ages, it was the Muslim countries, in Baghdad especially, that the seeds of the Renaissance were planted. It was Muslim scholars that preserved the discoveries of the classical world, and further contributed to the progress of science. Science could in fact, as demonstrated by the statements of many scientists, lead one closer to God.

Just to add on to Zefly’s comments, I don’t think religion is de-emphasized in these madrasahs. In fact, the article mentions that their school days are longer to accommodate both religious and secular subjects and hence it is not necessarily a zero-sum game.

Also, we have to recognize that religion, as a social phenomenon, is dynamic and never remains the same or unified. Fundamentalism is a modern invention after all, arising due to the historical contingencies at the time. There are also many other strains within any religion, and many would claim that faith is still very personal for them, despite orthodox teachings, and even then there’s also the issue of subjective interpretation. We don’t know if fundamentalism will go away but we do know that these madrasahs are moving in the right direction at present. It will be up to the increasingly complex dynamics brought about by more contact with the secular world to determine the eventual form of this social phenomenon.

14) Hey Zefly and Jabir,

What you’ve mentioned is exactly what I’m trying to get at. I am aware of the many Muslim scholars that were at the forefront of science and philosophy a long time ago. But, I also realise that Islam now (at least the fundamentalist strain) isn’t at all the same as the Islam we used to see. Devotion to this form of Islam in the present day is one which involves much disdain for “wordly pursuits”, among other things. Hence, I think that this present form of Islam doesn’t seem to foster equal interest in secular subjects?

I’m also not sure if we can say that it isn’t a “zero-sum game”. Even if we assume that students are able to put in enough extra time now to compensate for their additional (secular) workload, I would say that the very fact that secular subjects are taught alongside religion changes the dynamics entirely, in a more insidious way. The curriculum is now such that religion, plus other subjects such as science, math, etc are vying for a student’s attention and co-constructing their worldview. In the past, religion was the centre, and other subjects were either taught through the lens of religion (i.e., they built on religious themes and perspectives), or not taught at all. Given this, I would say that even if they spent the same amount of time on religion, the very fact that other subjects are now being taught alongside it would relegate religion to the status of “one among many”, and I think the intensity of religiosity that emerges is very much lessened.

Wei -> “I find it rather ironic that the model of madrasah that is upheld is, in fact, that which de-emphasises the role of religion”

I think there are a lot of views on this matter… some people prefer the less religious madrasah… some prefer the traditional madrasah that focus most on religious issues…

both are good to me… both can play a role in the society and can meet the differing goals of a parent in the interest of his/her child’s development…

some may want a slightly religious environment for their kids but still want their kids to be “normal” people like me and you… teachers, lawyers, engineers and etc… some may want their kids to be religious leaders…

but importantly there must be a path between the two so that the kids can change their “major” depending on their interests when they are slightly older..

Having also worked in the Middle East, I can add on to say that the local as well as international education scene there especially in the GCC, is a growing phenomena,

Approaches may be different – the Middle East jump starts….pushed perhaps by the volatility of the oil markets.

Here in South East Asia, perhaps it is more of a gradual and graduating process
to international standards of education.

Dear People,

Do not expect too much from this madrasah. Remember – the rest of the Muslim world may not accept this type of madrasah education. Always remember that MUIS cannot espouse views that are contradictory to what the rest of the Muslim world believes in.

We are – held back – by the rest of the Muslim world. And thats an unpleasant reality……

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

During the dark ages , science thrived in the muslim countries because of what you call, “new broom sweeps clean” snydrome. It was due to a new impetus by a new religion with new motivation and the sciences happened in places NOT in the middle east, the arabs but rather in places outside the origin of the new religion.Now The arabs are intoxicated by oil. Why bother about science when oil can buy them.The preoccpation is oil doesn’t run out and keep the prices up.
What had happened after that is everybody’s guess.Guess the enthusiasm fizzled out
This also can happen to anyone else. Eg. given new motivation singapore is at the forefront of life science not that other people of other countries are dumb. Motivation is the reason and it can turn an idiot into genius. However, consistency never lasts, people got tired, not enough bright brains to take over to continue and that is how civilisation took turn to excel. Eg . india and china…
Attribute to GOd’s help? God has already given equally to everyone, the rest is up to you.

2 Indonesian madrasahs adopt curriculum of Singapore’s madrasah
ChannelNewsAsia, 23 April 2009

SINGAPORE: Two madrasahs in Indonesia have adopted Singapore madrasah Al Irsyad Al Islamiah’s curriculum and management.

According to a New York Times’ article, the Indonesian madrasahs said they were attracted to Al Irsyad’s progressive model of Islamic education that is in tune with the modern world.

Al Irsyad’s 900 primary and secondary students follow the national curriculum while taking religious instruction.

Al Irsyad is the top academic performer among Singapore’s six madrasahs, and that is the reason why the Islamic Religious Council of Singapore (MUIS) gave the school a central spot in its new Islamic Centre.

Al Irsyad said it is in talks to export its model to madrasahs in the Philippines and Thailand.

Dear People,

First of all – its only 2 or 3 madrasahs in Indonesia, Phillipines, Thailand etc etc that is adopting the Singapore model. The thousands and thousands of madrasahs in these countries plus the millions elsewhere – do NOT accept Singapore’s model.

I firmly support the Singapore model of the madrasah – but I know that MUIS has very little influence elsewhere in the Muslim world. In fact – it is the opposite. MUIS cannot promote views which the rest of the Muslim world rejects. We are held back by the rest of the Muslim world. Its not nice – but thats the reality.

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

Thanks, Dr Syed Alwi (#34) for that information. Never mind about that. Just know that this makes every concerned Singaporean very happy and proud of Singapore MUIS and our Muslim leaders. So long as we please God in good deeds, no need to worry about anything else. (Al-Majadal 58:19,22)

Praise be to Allah!

Dr Syed Alwi… You mentioned “MUIS cannot promote views which the rest of the Muslim world rejects”..

I wonder why you think that MUIS have views different from the rest of the Muslim world.. MUIS are muslims too right??

Dear manKhan,

First of all – Singaporean Muslims are in a very unique situation. We are a minority in a very multi-cultural, multi-religious environment – where the majority are Non-Muslims. Ours is a high-technology, meritocratic, secular society.

Therefore there are many instances where we face quite unique problems.

Do we – for example – say that working in the IR is Haram ? Or do we accept that working in the IR is Halal ? Our Hota for example – is quite unique. What about the Hijab ban in secondary scools and JC ? And so on. Indeed – there are those who even ask whether its OK for Muslims to be led – politically – by Non-Muslim politicians and parties !! Can a Muslim follow the leadership of Non-Muslims ?

So – yes – there are many issues which MUIS has to deal with – which may be unique to Singapore. But MUIS is tied down by the practices of Muslims in other parts of the world. MUIS cannot say that working in the IR is Halal – but MUIS cannot also say that working in the IR is Haram !! After all – MUIS cannot provide alternative jobs by the thousands…..

Its a very difficult situation………..

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

In this modern age,frankly Muslims especially in europe is fighting for their identity into adapting themselves into the western culture.That well some considered ‘unislamic’

while in the middle east,especially those oil rich nation if u noticed it’s a ‘laidback’ life.

In singapore,generally i noticed that the changes that comes out from our madrasas here is due to the changing of environment and also due to the secular government..

To be frank,If u are ‘just’ an islamic graduate’here in singapore..will u be able to adapt to the demand of the ‘job skills’ in the market..??

The truth is the real teaching of Islam have to varie accordingly to one’s needs.

{Dr Syed Alwi wrote on April 24th, 2009 11.02 pm #35: “Dear manKhan,….”}

That is interesting, Dr Syed! Must have more knowledgeable Muslims like you here to raise on sensitive issues like that, to let non-Muslims like me know what is happening behind the headlines. That’s why I really like and highly respect our Muslim leaders and great intellectuals like you.

May Allah bless all of you and your loved ones! May Allah be greatly praised!!

Ameen!!!

Dear Dr Syed Alwi,

Turkey is considered to be secular Islamic nation. Is there anything that can be learnt from them? What are your views?

Dear www,

No – I do not think that we can learn much from Turkey. Ours is a very multi-cultural, cosmopolitan environment. Turkey is not as secular as it may want you to believe. And it is not as diverse as Singaporean society.

Frankly – the best case-study for us to look at – is American Muslims. And even then – there are pronounced differences due to the large Middle Eastern & South Asian influence.

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

Dear www & others,

Here is another point that I wish to add. Lets face it. The majority of Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims will NOT accept Singapore’s model of the madrasah. For goodness sake – PAS is on the rise in Malaysia. And the thousands of pesantren in Indonesia are quite conservative in their outlook.

The one major problem Singaporean Muslims face – is precisely getting recognition and acceptance from Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims.

For as long as Malaysia and Indonesia thinks that Singaporean Muslims are not Muslim enough (too diluted) – then we shall always have problems.

Its not easy being a Singaporean Muslim. You are deemed to Islamic by the Non-Muslim majority here – and you are deemed as being too UN-Islamic by Malaysians and Indonesians in particular. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t ……

Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi

agree with dr syed alwi,that’s where our problem lies sometimes..cos that’s the way the diversity here is.
we cannot be like our malaysian and indonesia muslims there as we gotta behave like a singaporean and assimilate into the society.

Interesting discussion from both Muslims and non-Muslims. However, it seems to me, the discussion has diverted into a debate on whether the Irsyad model is the right model. No one has any right to claim a monopoly on religion and religious practice. All Muslims (Irsyad, the Indonesians, the Pinoi Muslims and all other Muslims) are striving to strike a balance to live their lives by their beliefs. Whether Irsyad has the right formula or not, it is up to those who wish to adopt the model to assess that.

In the Quran, God warns “Laa ikraha fiddeen” There is no compulsion in religion. Instead of speculating on whether MUIS or SIngaporean Muslims should be or should not be trying to export the Irsyad formula, energies are better spent in making things better. The Irsyad model is not perfect but there is no harm in working towards perfection.

If we believe this system is a good one, it should be worth our support. Make the madrasah system better, not just Irsyad. There are others too in Singapore that have co-existed peacefully alongside the MOE-sponsored education system. Everyone deserves a chance to shine under God’s sun.

I believe the Irsyad modelt is a very good one, “shoosan”.

It makes me so proud of our Muslims and our leaders for trying so hard to project a good image for Islam, and to tryn making Singapore be noticed throughout the world.

May Allah be greatly praised!

Corrected post:

I believe the Irsyad model is a very good one, “shoosan” #44.

It makes me so proud of our Muslims and our leaders for trying so hard to project a good image for Islam, and to trying making Singapore be noticed throughout the world.

May Allah be greatly praised!

Dr Alwi,

i remember that previously, when i commented on a more secular element in madrasa education, you seem very against it. You mentioned that PERGAS was unhappy that the government wanted to include secular education. You expressed a lot of unhappiness that MUIS allowed this.

You seem to take a different stance now.