So what’s stopping her from erasing the separation of the Church and the State?

What’s stopping her from erasing the separation of the Church and the State?

Interestingly, this brings us back to the heated argument of 377A.

I am quite amused at the spate of events i must say.

You cannot deny these ladies some of them are older and more conservative.

My question however to anyone who reads this is, where will be your stand when you have your own kids and because of this exposure they want to be homosexual.

I believe in the freedom of rights and for people to choose ultimately what they want. But this freedom of choice has to come with responsibility and maturity. Are adolescent youth ready to make the choices of their sexuality at such a young age? Are they sure of their choices at such a young age or are they led into it whether through extenuating circumstances such as abuse in their famliy or failed relationships.

I believe even the people who are homosexual who read this cannot deny that the natural order of things in this world is man and woman hence procreation.

I feel that it is okay for the homoseuxals to propagate their agenda, but then again i strongly advocate that our society also needs to see the other side of the coin, and that natural ordered family nucleuses are the building blocks of our society. (we cannot afford anymore baby deficits as well).

Should we be all inclusive and accepting and tolerating? Yes we should always be. But safeguards are always necessary especially for adolescents who have yet to reached the adequate maturity to make a SOUND and INFORMED choice.

Can we blame Thio Su Mein for standing by her beliefs and how she views our society? The methods might be questionable but i for one never doubt the intention – Healthy Family Nucleus as the backbone of our Society.

JM2C (:

I don’t know how anyone can take these people seriously anymore. They have completely and utterly lost the plot:

http://www.glass-castle.org/blog/2009/04/tale-of-two-events-how-they-have.html

Jolene

So the monkey tails are finally out…..this just confirms that they are trying to impose their religious beliefs on the organisation.

Scheming and cunning people they are indeed.

I think it’s time for the old guards to band together and speak as a group as previous excos in light of the allegations heaped on to them by the new excos and their so called “feminist mentor”.

It’s also time for other organisations and people who have worked with and helped on by AWARE to speak up for them.

This kind of smear campaign cannot be allowed. I sincerely hope the old guards will speak for themselves and others who had put in much effort in building AWARE.

To have a bunch of outsiders rip out your work, take over your group and throw thrash in your face is surely, unbearable.

The article in the Straits Times today eludicates the ignorance of Dr Thio with regards to sexuality. I quote: ‘ Are we going to have an entire generation of lesbians?’ Clearly, she believes that events that support gay women propagate homosexuality, which is hardly the case if one is heterosexual. Unless Dr Thio is uncertain about her heterosexuality.

Another point to note about ST’s article which highlighted seven pro-gay events might cause the average ST reader to employ the availability heuristic, inferring that seven pro-gay programmes might be too many for a secular and neutral organization. This is bearing in mind the absence of a clear timeline and information of many other ‘non-queer’ events that AWARE has been helming.

Finally, I’ll like to add that by launching an offensive on other women, these new committee members have excluded those they supposedly seek to help, marginalized women with a diversity of experience and undermining the idea of a pluralistic and tolerant Singapore.

Read in TODAY that death threat received by ExCo member. Check it out at

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/315756.asp
The police is now involved , is now involved. Those who are making baseless attacks on the new Exco especially on religion better think again and be prepared to be questioned

To socrates on April 24th, 2009 8.36 am

Stop trying to intimidate people using police by posting these links and telling people to be careful and try to silence them.

I think the high rise in membership could be due to the mega churches supporting the new Aware committee. Looks like old Aware committee needs to set up its own NGO association now. Looks like a lost cause to me.

Also, is there any clause in the Registrar of Societies that can take the New Aware Committee to task for engineering a coup and for creating a false alarm that the Old Aware was pro-gay-lesbian. Its all heresay & lots of mouthwashing from the New Aware Committee that the Old Aware has been hijacked by the pro-gay-lesbian. The New Aware Committee is clearly in line with their fundamental religious beliefs & if proof is given that it is aligned with their church’s teachings word for word, then can it be solid proof that New Aware is using an NGO to propagate religious beliefs?

Any lawyers here?

These New Aware ppl is quite despicable to use their innocent children and fear from parents as shields to advance their divisive and fundamentalist christianity views!! Do your children have a brain of their own??? They can’t tell right fr wrong!!? Tat says much abt their parents incompetence then!

Hurray for hypocrisy!

‘I find to my dismay that Aware seems to be only very interested in lesbianism and the advancement of homosexuality, which is a man’s issue,’ she said.

Because Lesbians sure AREN’T women…

Just wondering…

Did Prof Thio join Aware at any point in time over the past 26 years which was started by her “contemporaries and friends” to contribute her views and work towards Aware’s “excellent” objectives?

Why has there been a need for subterfuge and stormtrooper tactics?

Could it be that she realises her views on the role of women are too hardline and extreme for even her “contemporaries and friends” to accept?

And it is scary how out-of-touch-with-reality she (and some others) seem when they label Aware as exclusively pro-homosexuality. Do they know ANYTHING about the organisation they took over? Have they been to ANY event or been involved in ANY of the many talks organised by Aware?

I certainly hope she makes better arguments defending her clients in court than defending her views and the new exco. But sometimes, it’s difficult to defend the indefensible.

(btw, I feel really bad for sounding like a partisan. I make a conscious effort to be objective and understand their point of view and sympathise with them as fellow humans but they’re really making it very, very hard).

I cannot trust people who lied on national tv to head a NGO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUgzMaN6cY

3 min 35 second to 3rd min 50 second of the video

can’t they just set up BEWARE if AWARE is a lost case?

#6 Speed Weed.
Yah I fully agree! they were lying through their teeth in front of national TV saying they didn’t know each other! But they go to the same church, been Aware members for some time and they are related to Thio Sun Mien! Come on!!! You really think Singaporeans are so dumb and its actually an insult!

It is disappointing to note that the new exco’s news conference did not offer any new ideas of how to bring AWARE forward but instead focused on the pro-gay activities of the old guard. So what the newspapers have been focusing on for the past 2 weeks has been right. The new exco has always been about an agenda to push back the pro-gay movement, except that it took more than 2 weeks to drag this out of the new exco.

The old guard will now have to respond to the pro-gay allegations put forth by the new exco but at least we are now going to have a debate about the issues, something which the new exco has been avoiding up till now. Unfortunately, I am not sure how much the average woman in Singapore is interested about pro or anti-gay issues, since gays only represent a very small % of the women here.

I really can’t stand this new exco, really k- poh chi. That means they already monitor AWARE since a year ago. Looks like Pap style.

I may disagree with their views on Aware promoting homosexuality as well as the issue of homosexuality itself, and I am a Christian.

But I certainly can applaud their willingness to step forward to pay the price in order to fight for what they believed in, which is certainly something that many apathetic Singaporeans, including myself, can learn from.

I don’t really get it when people jump up and down over Thio Su Mien’s stand that AWARE was moving towards pro-gay & pro-lesbian.
Ok, you can call it by different terms e.g. inclusive, non-discrimination, tolerance. But the result is the same. Becoming pro-gay & pro-lesbian.
No wonder gay & lesbian activists are going all out to try to bring back the old guards.

Even before Thio Su Mien’s comments, it was already apparent to me (and I’m sure a lot of other casual observers) that AWARE was becoming pro-gay & pro-lesbian.

So the old guards have a lot to explain and clarify. But it’s not possible for them to deny the facts. Rather they have to convince members that it’s ok for AWARE to be pro-gay & pro-lesbian. So that’s how the voting should be based one.

“Dr Thio said: ‘I feel kind of responsible for these difficulties they are going through, because I was the one who mentored them over the years.’ “she said she began monitoring Aware’s affairs about a year ago”

The above is proof that the new exco members are all related or affilated in some ways and their takeover was a planned coup.

“Asked if their takeover was a planned coup, Ms Lau said: ‘No.’ She and Ms Ong claimed they had only just got to know each other”
Whose words do you trust – Ms Lau and Ms Ong, or Dr Thio? Or none?

And so much for lawyers who are good at finding the loopholes of legal law (I laugh).

The biggest loophole is glaring at us.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO LIE ON NATIONAL TV.

If the sex education programme is brought into schools, it should come under the purview of the Ministry of Education. Did Ms Thio take the matter up with the Ministry? If so, what was the outcome?

It is arrogant and ignorant, both at once, to say that people need to be educated by her. People can read, and comprehend. She should not try to impose her ideologies on others under the guise of civic duty.

‘And this is something which should concern parents in Singapore. Are we going to have an entire generation of lesbians?’

Wow, if lesbians are so powerful in converting women to like them, I also want whatever they are drinking. Cos me is scoring very low on the attracting women area.

Fearmongering at it’s worst.

#2 Socrates has been posting this silly post on various threads.

It’s ironic, isn’t it? Using the name of Socrates who believed in reason, and committed suicide rather than succumb to fanatics?

Anyway, Socrates (sic) how about those who make false claims against the old AWARE, try to shove their religious agenda down our collective throats, disobey the legitimate instructions of their employer, lie on national TV?

#12 Zefly :-)

That’s hilarious, Count me in too!

The queerest part of Thio Su-Mien’s interview is this priceless nugget: “Aware seems to be only very interested in lesbianism and the advancement of homosexuality, which is a man’s issue“.

This boggles the mind. How is ‘lesbianism’ a ‘man’s issue’, and how is ‘the advancement of homosexuality’ (if that could indeed be imputed to AWARE) any more or less a ‘man’s issue’ than a woman’s issue?

#9) observ on April 24th, 2009 9.54 am

Ah, we now see the tactic of trying to bring the argument back to pro-gay / antigay.

“I don’t really get it when people jump up and down over Thio Su Mien’s stand that AWARE was moving towards pro-gay & pro-lesbian.
Ok, you can call it by different terms e.g. inclusive, non-discrimination, tolerance. But the result is the same. Becoming pro-gay & pro-lesbian.”

Sorry, observ, but your pants are on fire.

“No wonder gay & lesbian activists are going all out to try to bring back the old guards.”

Wrong again, baby, its everyone who has a conscience and a brain and who cares enough for the society in which we live in. And I really don’t care too much about AWARE. But I think its important that fundamentalists have no place in our society, much less in a civic organisation.

“Even before Thio Su Mien’s comments, it was already apparent to me (and I’m sure a lot of other casual observers) that AWARE was becoming pro-gay & pro-lesbian.”

Ha. Lies upon lies. It is equally clear to me and a lot of other casual observers that the new Exco is a bunch of fanatics. Distractionary tactics now, eh?

“So the old guards have a lot to explain and clarify. But it’s not possible for them to deny the facts. Rather they have to convince members that it’s ok for AWARE to be pro-gay & pro-lesbian. So that’s how the voting should be based one.”

Solly, wong numba. It is the new exco that has to explain why they lied. Why they conducted a slient campaign to take over AWARE.

The stakes are high for Singaporeans. Today, they take over AWARE, what next?,Tomorrow it could be your en-bloc sales committee.

all of you seem against the new committee because they are chrisitans, fundamentalist, they staged a coup, or you feel they are going shove some straws up your nose? Anything wrong with them except the last one?
I feel all of you are losers too and you speak like losers. I remember the PAD, the elitists who lost to Thaksin, they are the same, losers , not happy of being defeated at the poll. Same with old women who lost and now lobbying sympathisers , gays,lesbians, potential gays and lesbians and partners of gays and lesbians and new converts.If successful, the old women and these people will pose a formidable force at the EOGM, sure to topple the new committee.
The best team wins

It is very simple!

Thio Su Mien now admits that she mentor the coup. However, days ago, Josie and Maureen and gang denied that they know each other.

Conclusion: They are liars!

Dear JM2C and OBSERV

Firstly how PRO GAY was AWARE apart from Sect 377A ? What is the list of their supposed pro gay activities.

1. One Movie. Fine where was Darth Thio and her stormtroopers when Brokeback Mountain was showing in Singapore ?

2. Sex Education. AWARE has always like feminist advocated Pro Choice , and Pro Condom use and informing teenagers about homosexuality without making moral judgements. Is that being Pro Gay ? The fact that you tell kids what is out there without making the moral judgements of right or wrong , is it Pro Gay ?

\
3. And notice Maureen was against any form of sex education full stop, including abortion contraception, as her religious and intellectual roots are with the abstinence crowd.

4. Half of letters and issues championed by AWARE under the old guard was on abortion, teenage sex, and foreign workers. How Pro Gay is it or Gay Friendly ?

5. Thio Su Mien is a lawyer the Law Society supported 377A why doesn’t darth Thio go and take over the Law Society and refocus its values ? Errrr afraid of the ISD ?

6. Maureen Sweet old dear old foot in her mouth Maureen spoke of the need to lobby against Syriah law before changing her comments ? Another slip of the tongue ? Come on one and all Xtian fundie speak against Muslims has been well documented in the US. But Maureen in charge of Aware letting it shoot ?

Locke

#18) Kelvin Tan on April 24th, 2009 9.26 am

“I may disagree with their views on Aware promoting homosexuality as well as the issue of homosexuality itself, and I am a Christian.

But I certainly can applaud their willingness to step forward to pay the price in order to fight for what they believed in, which is certainly something that many apathetic Singaporeans, including myself, can learn from.”

Kelvin, yes, their will to struggle for what they want and believe in is admirable. This will has been seen throughout history in luminaries such as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. We have also seen terrorists willing to die for their cause. But imho, the words “misplaced” and “misguided” are really good nouns to use here. It’s not the will that is relevant here, its the cause they are fighting for, that really scares me.

And I don’t knew they expected this reaction. Tactically, they fumbled all the way, from the clumsiness of the takeover, to the first interview and to Thio Su Mien’s coming out of the closet. They probably didn’t expect the ST to play this up. Even their internet campaign is losing steam as they run out of card to play. Up to now, they are still trying to bring up the “progay-antigay” BS which is a big smelly bright red herring. They are now relying on sheer doggedness and the rallying of the faithful to win the day. Scary thing is, they might.

(almost) full transcript of the press con at the link above.

An open letter to Dr Thio from me-

Dear Dr Thio,

After reading the reasons you gave for doing what you did, I came to conclusion that I was wrong. I was wrong to join in the chorus of voices that derided you for what you did when you clearly had everyone’s best interest in mind. After all, isn’t it the salvation of souls that you are most concerned about? I fail to understand why people are always barking for you head when you are merely doing a good thing. Damn those freedom-loving immoral hippies. Don’t they know they are going to burn in hell? Don’t those fags and dykes know that you are doing it for their own good? Do they really want to burn in hell?

I commend you on your ability to mobilize people so easily and quickly, and for that brilliant coup de’tat in seizing control of that foundry of filth masquerading as a women’s rights group. It is something that many non-profit organizations have tried but failed to do – getting a huge number of people to act fast and decisively. I’m sure many of those voices shouting out against you and your crusaders are just jealous. And we all know what the book says about envy. But let’s forgive them for they know not what they do.

There is so much more that needs to be done. The job of saving souls is a thankless eternal chore. While we’re at it, let’s look at which other souls we can save.

Howabout those corporate big-wigs whose souls are corrupted by greed? What shall we do to rescue them? Should we mobilize your vast resources and get your flock to speak out against them? I know some of your people hold key positions in banks as well, but I’m pretty sure that all those recent mini-bond fiascos had got nothing to do with them because everything was done legally. If it’s legal, it must be right. We are talking about the other big wigs of course. You know, those AIG people… I’m sure someone in your vast network must know some of them, and you could get them to counsel them about the destructiveness of greed and save them from eternal damnation.

While we’re at it, why not the souls of nasty employers of foreign workers? We all know what the book says about slavery. You could get your people to petition the government. With our convictions and your leadership, I’m sure our voices will be heard. Think about it. The more we make it mandatory in law that the basic rights and living standards of our foreign brothers are taken care of, the less likely employers will be tempted to sin, and burn in hell forever. And while we’re at it, many NGOs would be happy to receive cheques of donation from your flock. We are all inclusive and non-discriminatory and will not reject cheques based on religious beliefs.

It is unfortunate that your niece-in-law’s attempt to consolidate has not gone down well. Perhaps it is time to diversify.

Yours,
A fellow crusader.

Thio Su Mien stated: “So I’m a concerned citizen and if people are so ignorant, I think I want to teach them.’”

Are we so ignorant, look at the contributions here in the forum, What can she teach us? BIRDS of the same feather flock together as seem to me.

Definitely Thio Su Mien, how do you intend to teach us?

What exactly does this woman want to teach us?

What is it that we are ignorant about?

Josie and Maureen claimed they don’t know each other until the election. The new exco team claimed that their religious belief is their personal belief and nothing to do with their joining/taking over AWARE. Well, look at the emails below and judge for yourselves.

* * *

From: smthio@xxxxxxx.sg
To: stjh21@xxxxxx.sg, Undisclosed-Recipient:
Subject: Re Aware
Attachments AWARE_membership_mail-in_application_form.pdf concerned parents.1.do
PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

Dear All

Please see Attachments on some recent developments in Aware. Aware is a woman’s organization which conducts comprehensive sexual programmes for girls and it runs this programme in some of the schools. They encourage girls to express their full sexuality and this includes experimenting with other girls. It would be a good idea to join it and change its focus to other problems of women and families.

..Please ask your like-minded friends to join Aware so that you can give the vote to those who wish to be an agent of change for the Lord. They could also contribute to the activities of the oprganization as there is much to be done for women and families in this dowturn of the economy. Unfortunately, I cannot surface but shall be assisting in the background . I attach the Aware membership application form for your use. The Aware application form has a section as to who ( if any) told you about Aware. You can just leave it blank . Please let me know whether you can join and attend the AGM which will be towards the end of March 2009. The fee is $40/ and should be mailed to the Aware Office ( see application form).

Look forward to hearing from you. Please call me. May I have your phone no?

Blessings,
Su Mein
From: lynkl@xxxxxx
To: leonglh@xxxxxx, siowkee16@xxxxxx.sg, shari200@xxxxxx.sg., aikhoons@xxxxx.sg, siuyoong@xxxxx.com, sulilee8@xxxx.com, jesgbf@xxxxx.com, eschan@xxxxx.sg
Subject: Fw: Re Aware
Attachments AWARE_membership_mail-in_application_form.pdf McFarlane v. homosex therapy.htm selected articles (1).pdf

Dear beloved Sis In Christ,
Would like to ask you and your like-minded friends who are believers to join as members of AWARE to cast votes and be a change agent for the Lord in some of the recent issues happen in this organization that is not according to the Lord’s principles………..
Please pray for Lord’s wisdom to pass on this important message as it is confidential……
Thank you.
Lynn.
12/2/09
From: Mervyn xxx
Sent: Sat 4/18/2009 11:59 PM
To: xxxx Xian Jin; FOONG Tai Wei; Adora TAN Su Yan; Eugene TAN Jia Rong; ZHOU Siming
Subject: RE: AWARE – Your Action Needed

Acknowledged. We (Eugene and I) had quite a bit of talk on this issue over dinner today.

Right now we should pray for the COOS members who are being put through scrutiny and invasion of their private lives by the media. Pray that God’s Word will prevail over the values of the world. Homosexuality isn’t God’s design and we pray that those who stand up against it and are discriminated will be delivered.

Praise God for COOS’ stand and He who aids us as we stand firmly upon His Word.

- Merv

Lotsa lessons to learn about how we Christians engage the world and secularism.

From: xxxx Xian Jin
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:37 PM
To: FOONG Tai Wei; Adora TAN Su Yan; Mervyn LEE xxx xxx; Eugene TAN Jia Rong; ZHOU Siming
Subject: FW: AWARE – Your Action Needed

Dear friends,

Thanks Tai Wei and Adora for taking an interest in the Aware Elections and how Church of Our Saviour has been embroiled in the controversy in the papers today. The media seems to have taken a strong stance against my church and this email is to update you all on the church’s position, which the senior pastor has kept mum about, but we would be expecting his comments in church tomorrow.

Below is an email sent out by a church staff to members of the church on the need for Christians to rise up and how they can be involved in this issue. Meanwhile, please pray for the church for it could be difficult time for members who are in the spotlight and the church could also be facing some brickbats along the way. Pray for God’s protection and wisdom to see us through.

DG, keeping you in the loop.

Xian Jin

——— Forwarded message ———-
From: Shawn xxx
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Subject: AWARE – Your Action Needed
To:

Dear Friend,

Our nation needs your support and action very urgently!

AWARE is an organization that has existed in Singapore for many years.

It is a non-profit body dedicated to women’s advocacy and gender equality.

They protect women’s rights and help develop women to their fullest potential.

In the last few years, AWARE has aggressively become involved in gay

activism. Many members of their committee are pro-gay. They have even

conducted a sexual education programme in some schools that teach

young people that it is normal and alright to behave homosexually. They

have also screened a lesbian-themed movie Spider Lilies at a Charity Ball.

During this week, AWARE held an election of office bearers. This event saw

many of the pro-gay old guards losing their positions in the committee to new

faces. These new people do not share the values of the pro-gay old guards

and has caused much shock and rage to the latter group.

The pro-gay old guards are retaliating by calling for an Extraordinary General

Meeting where they intend to amend the Constitution to only allow members

who have been with AWARE for more than 2 years, to vote. If this change is

passed, then only the pro-gay old guards and their cohorts will have the

power to do what they want.

To prevent this from happening, we are calling on all responsible females

to sign up for membership with AWARE immediately, and also to attend this

all-important EGM so as to vote against changing the Constitution.

If you are male and have received this petition, please pass it to as many

responsible females as you know and encourage them to sign up for

membership with AWARE so as to vote against any changes to their

Constitution.

The date for the EGM has yet to be announced but it should be soon.

Membership fees are $40 for adult females and $5 for female fulltime students below

the age of 25. Please print the attached softcopy of the membership form,

fill in the details (no need to tell who referred you), mail the form with your cheque.

Singapore is counting on you. Please respond.

You are made for such a time as this!

Pro-Family,

Shawn

________________________________

From: Linda xxx
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:21 PM
To: COOS English Church Staff – DL; Derek xxx
Subject: FW: Ps 68:11

Dear Pastor Derek,

The number of members registered on Tuesday night is 13 out of 40 who turned up.

One thing I forgot to mention this morning was the film show Spider Lilies (selected articles attached above)

The school children were told that lesbian lifestyle is okay.

Linda

Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) ,
It is very unfortunate that you have played into the hands of these old maid and you now turn against the people who are trying to protect your family from those outlandish values that are insidiously creeping into your home and all the homes. You have mistakenly and misunderstood their intention and you are being swayed by the false labeling of funadamentalism.
You remember the report in the NEW Paper about two men being caught for having sex in a public place, a lift. If you were living there and your children happened to be there and saw everything. How would you explain to them. Do you tell them it is fashionable, a fad, the cool thing thing to do these days and it is alright even if they want. I bet you will be fuming in rage.This is not something to be done in public even you condone their lifestyle.
Now get this straight, THEY ARE NOT AGAINST GAYS AND LESBIANS.The new AWARE is against their lifestyle and worse openly living out their lifestyle, in staircases, lifts, in MRT, in buses and public places disregarding other people and children. If they do in their bed room , no body cares. Even , normal people don’t have sex in public places except for some crazy teenagers.
You think that staging a coup is wrong, this is disputable. Which takeover is NOT staged. It is months of planning, from logistics to people to timing. I can’t understand why you guys take issue with this. It is not any different from any corporate take over.There is a strategist or mentor behind the take over and the tacticians just followed the plan.
To say the new AWARE will be used as plateform to further fundamentalism, i don’t know what to say about you. You are naive. It is all speculation and accusations at best. Give them a chance.
If you suspect them as rumoured,why not throw your support behind the old women and cast your vote to restore the old club. I assure you there will be a lot of gays and lesbians, pick and choose, they will turn up in droves to protect their benefactors.
You are barking up the wrong tree. You distract from the issue and stray into other areas cynically.
I am also a crusader but on the other side.

To 25) la nausée on April 24th, 2009 1.00 pm

“The queerest part of Thio Su-Mien’s interview is this priceless nugget: “Aware seems to be only very interested in lesbianism and the advancement of homosexuality, which is a man’s issue“.

This boggles the mind. How is ‘lesbianism’ a ‘man’s issue’, and how is ‘the advancement of homosexuality’ (if that could indeed be imputed to AWARE) any more or less a ‘man’s issue’ than a woman’s issue?”

That’s because she think homosexuality refers to gay men only.

My my…PhD in Law, once dean of Law Faculty. Talk about being ignorant. If people are so ignorant, I think I want to teach them the right understanding of words. Homosexuality covers both men and women Dr Thio!

Peace,

And peace on you too brother. You need some loving. Hugs.

#33 Peace,

If my children were to see 2 men having sex in public and they asked me about it, I will tell them that according to my personal values, it is not correct and is against the natural scheme of things and that it should be strongly discouraged. There is no need for the new EXCO to take over AWARE and drive this crusade.

You mentioned the following to Joshua: “To say the new AWARE will be used as plateform to further fundamentalism, i don’t know what to say about you. You are naive. It is all speculation and accusations at best.”

The problem with the new exco is that everything they have displayed about themselves has been about anti-gay conservatism and nothing much else. So how do you convince 3rd parties that the new exco is about anything more than anti-gay conservatism?

You also justify the takeover by saying “Which takeover is NOT staged. It is months of planning, from logistics to people to timing.”

The problem is that Josie previously went on national television and said that the takeover was NOT staged. So her integrity, and that of the new exco is in serious doubt. And with your integrity compromised, how is any reasonable person expected to trust anything that comes out from their mouth now?

enough of this. i’m talking about you liberals. it’s time to stop complaining and whining of disprate online blogs and forums and ACTUALLY MOBILIZE, DO SOMETHING. show the bigots we are greater in number and they are a dying breed. If we could band together and rise up with commitment and passion for our ideals of an open society, the kind of “mobilization” that churches like COOS can muster would look pathetic in comparison.

let’s take over one of their churches or societies.

This ongoing fundies taking over AWARE saga is really a blessing in disguise. We will see more liberals and fair minded people speaking out and doing somethings. Even if taking over one of their churches is not accomplished at the moment, I believed many people will be galvanised and this bode well for the future.

Cowboy,

There’s no such thing as liberal or conservatives. There’s only people that play fair, and people that don’t. Don’t become a monster so the monster will not take you.

Peace (#34), pardon my bluntness, but you’re being daft, on several levels. First, quite a number of people would find any kind of open-air copulation offensive , regardless</I. of whether it’s homosexual, heterosexual, or some other kind of sex. It’s not MSM or FSF that raises special concern here. Second, there is absolutely no evidence that homosexual sex is more likely to take place in the public as compared to heterosexual sex. Third, nobody in this debate (whether the Old Guard or New Guard at AWARE) is advocating sex in public places; it’s not as if AWARE has been a champion for nudism and exhibitionism these past few years.

Zefly, I admire your principles and I would dearly like to have stuck by them – but the reality is when people do not play fair, you’re not going to win by playing fair. When even self-proclaimed Christians could turn their backs on the morals and ideals of their religion and somehow interpret the religious teachings as calling for a hostile personal crusade, you know the world has gone to hell.

I’m not going to ask where the outrage is. There is plenty, alright. It’s just not producing any results other than pages and pages of online comments.

‘So I’m a concerned citizen and if people are so ignorant, I think I want to teach them.’

That statement offends me, as I believe it offends a majority of us. It is a major slight to the population and the intelligence of Singaporeans to suggest that we are ‘ignorant’ and need teaching.

“I’m not going to ask where the outrage is. There is plenty, alright. It’s just not producing any results other than pages and pages of online comments.”

You think? AWARE now has 800 members. Previously it had only 200. (well of course we can’t discount that not all will vote for the old guard)

And germami has been convinced of the immorality of the new group’s action. I’m hopeful he’d have passed the new we-are-aware-org website to his friends to get them to join.

That’s the power of a rational ethical approach.

#20, Orchid,
hope you are not a spider liliy in disguise. Your interest in seeing the old women restored is unfliching. Hope it is not because of the removal of your benefactor that motivates you to be vocal and fervent in your outcry .Lesbainism is an illness and the only solultion is to seek a cure and not temporary cure which calls for yielding and gratification of your body.

#31, T
no idea where you got these confidential emails. Have you got hold of the old guards email as well and share with us maybe lurid conspiracy to topple the the new committee
Do these email prove anything, insidious or sinister?
They only lobbyied for support, right? . It is a campaign for support, anyhting wrong?. This is not unusual, it is the work before a launch of anyhting. This proves you are more despicable than the new AWARE by divulging confidentail correspondence. You can be a potential defendant, do you know?
Cowboy, you can ride into any church to take over. There is nothing to stop you so long it is not violent, disrupting, damaging to properties. Trespassing can be waived for you. You are welcome to do so

Zefly,

It is not certain who is accounting for the sharp increase in numbers. Are they for the new exco or against the new exco? No one knows.

It does not really matter even if the old guard loses the EOGM, since they can always form a new society and carry on with their original aims if they are dedicated enough. The EOGM is simply a numbers game and the eventual winner may not win through the superiority of their arguments, but through their numbers. But that’s democracy for you. What is most important is that the issues are debated at the EOGM and the members can decide for themselves which side to vote for, based on the strength of their arguments.

For one, I don’t see much the fundies have gained by taking over AWARE to advance their agenda part from the tangible resources. They have fired on the old guards who are the one with the networks which represents what they stand for. Will the UN be willing to work with the new AWARE’s group? It is only good for creating some confusion besides some tangible resources gain. Apart from that, all intangibles are gone with the old guards. Thio is really so naive to think that a group’s name and hard assets represent an ideology? They might as well set up their own group to advance their agenda.

GREAT! DR THIO SU MIEN IS SHOWING HER FACE!

Welcome, Feminist Mentor Dr Thio! You are a caring, gallant and a courageous woman! You are a God-sent. I am so much clearer now with your explanation with the facts and fighures and your lucid narrative. Good job!

To those who do not know her well, let me attempt a bit of introduction. She is that rare breed and an epitome of the ideal feminity. She obtained a First Class Honours for her law degree from NUS (a first for a woman). Not surprisingly, she went on to become the first woman dean of NUS law Faculty.

She is the mother of that very brainy and gifted Dr Thio Li-ann, a current law professor in NUS. Like mother, like daughter—another rarity!

In her younger days, Dr Thio Su-mien was also a very pretty woman. If she had taken part in a beauty contest, no problem she would win also. Beauty and the brain—that would have been her fitting epithet! Certainly a rare and courageous woman that Singapore must have more—in our morally and spiritually perilous times like this!

God bless you, gallant woman!

43) WeiHan on April 24th, 2009 3.32 pm
Totally agree with you. The core foundation of the old AWARE is still there. This incident will give them greater resolve to work on areas they have the passion for. The new group, even they win the EOGM will arouse suspicion and doubt on their sincerity. Netizens will still want to probe whether they are a bunch of liars. The truth will finally emerge. It’s a matter of time.

There seems to be a prob in our legal education, if people like TSM can get away with her statements. Where is the notion of evidence backing up statements?

1 ‘Aware had lost sight of its original purpose and become pro-lesbian and pro-homosexual’ – The last time I checked, AWARE was still called the the Association of Women for Action and Research. Was there a recent name revision to Association of Female Heterosexuals for Action and Research? Dictionary.com gives one an excellent definition of what a woman is. Sexuality is hardly mentioned in the definition;

2 ‘Introducing herself as a ‘feminist mentor’ to working women’ – Again, dictionary.com gives the following definition “the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men” Nowhere was there mention of sexuality. A feminist works for women, not for sexuality. Don’t use words you don’t understand TSM. Anyway the COOS does not have equal status for women against men, check their bible study material online. Mentoring them for years? Feminist mentor mentoring a bunch of women who readily accepts subjugation? Where’s the disjunct? Who’s confused?

3 ’she began urging women she knew to challenge Aware’s attempts to redefine marriage and families’ – last time I checked, homosexuality marriages are not legal. So where is the redefinition?

4 ‘Dr Thio said she went on to discover that in Aware’s comprehensive sexuality education programme, which is taken to schools, homosexuality is regarded as a neutral word, not a negative word.’ – why is homosexuality a non-neutral word. Is it supposed to be negative? By who’s standards?

5 ‘‘So I’m a concerned citizen and if people are so ignorant, I think I want to teach them.’ – So ex-Dean of Law wants to teach the ignorant? Does she miss her teaching profession? There are many ignorant people around, why don’t you start by teaching that democracy usually comes with civil and political rights to speech, assembly and association.

6 ‘‘And this is something which should concern parents in Singapore. Are we going to have an entire generation of lesbians?’’ – Thanks TSM for your concerns, but I feel assured that if we as Singaporeans are truly moving down that road, at least there are people like you to continue the struggle to procreate.

7 ‘‘They are in pain. And very often from families where you have abusive fathers, they do things with their daughters and the daughters revolt, rebel against society.’ – Science have not been able to explain the instances of homosexuality. It could have been a nurture problem, but it could very well haven been nature. Research shows that out of 10 male sheep, 1 of them would go for another male sheep instead of a female one. Have that sheep’s parents been touching it? Historical figures shows that even if homosexuality is legalised, the instances of homosexuality remains constant at 10%. It can be traced all the way back to the classical age of the Greeks.

I am of the humble opinion that to truly fight for equality for women, you need men. The sad fact of the matter is that men wield more power than women in society, in politics, in the economy. Taking the feminist route for equality will almost ensure resistance at every corner. Kenya’s Men for Change has shown you how effective male-led advocacy for women can be. India’s bra-burning types have been subjected to violence whilst other less extreme women self-help groups in Adhara Pradesh are making great strides in equality.

On a parting note, since TSM has been mentoring the AWARE committee and is so knowledgeable about the issues around, let’s put forth a motion to make her MM (Aware Member Mentor). She is, after all, 71.

Dear All

I can’t believe it, the threats were from a “masculine gay” who is part of a ” jihadist sleeper cell,” Last I checked JI’s ideology did not allow for tolerance of gays and they were very much focused on Anti West, Anti everything including the liberal lifestyle which Josie and her pussy cats are against.

Lies built on lies, deception built on deception, what crap

Locke

Peace @ #48 – when confronted with over-whelming evidence, what do you do? Dig a bigger hole? Stick your head into the sand?

The biggest irony in this whole sorry episode is that the new team, by hijacking a secular NGO for their clearly sectarian interests, had done more to promote LGBT and to engender sympathies for them than the LGBTs can ever achieve on their own.

God works in mysterious ways indeed.

#48 Peace?

“hope you are not a spider liliy in disguise.”
What is spider lily?

” Your interest in seeing the old women restored is unfliching. Hope it is not because of the removal of your benefactor that motivates you to be vocal and fervent in your outcry .”

Huh? Who is my benefactor?
I’m an upright, average woman who does not have the resources to help the destitute (that’s why I respect and appreciate what the old guards have done for them). Fyi, I do not know any of the old guards, and as I said: I’m an average woman. I do not need to seek help from anyone.

“Lesbainism is an illness and the only solultion is to seek a cure and not temporary cure which calls for yielding and gratification of your body.”
??? I do not know what rubbish you’re uttering!
Is it because Gemami has expressed that my comments “moved him most and got him to reflect deeper on his position”? You feel you’ve lost a comrade because of me?
I can tell you that what got him to reflect deeper on his position is his own sense of righteousness. He simply shares mine, that’s all.

You can’t go around making false accusations on people who do not support your irrational arguments.

T #55,
what do the emails prove? Conspiracy?
What is wrong with hijacking, if you want to use the word? Was it hijacked illegally, undemocratically, unconstitutionally?
Why the number dropped to 200 after 24 years.if the old comm did a good job? Look, memebers were growing disenchanted, disallussioned with the old women who strayed from their core agenda.
God didn’t work with the old committee.So it is no mystery the old AWARE was forsaken but mercifully not destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah. Take off your tinted glass so that you get a truer perspective.

#48 Peace “hope you are not a spider liliy in disguise. Your interest in seeing the old women restored is unfliching. Hope it is not because of the removal of your benefactor that motivates you to be vocal and fervent in your outcry .Lesbainism is an illness and the only solultion is to seek a cure and not temporary cure which calls for yielding and gratification of your body.”

???
What are you trying to imply? Seriously, I do not know what exactly the term ’spider lily’ refers to, but the second part of your words… If you’re asking if I’m a lesbian, the answer is ‘NO’.

The gays and lesbians – I think many are harmless. If you can’t agree with them, at least respect them as fellow human beings.

Please lah, get back to the debate on what Josie and gang are up to.

what bigotry and patronising codswallop fromsuch a highly educated woman. Its shocking from someone claiming to be a christian yet hold such negative view on another human simply because they have alternative preferences. Did the christian faith not advocate love and compassion to everyone alike or are gays and lesbians lesser humans than your heterosexual. By the way I am one and married …. so noone can accuse me of being biased

It was mentioned in the Straits Times that Dr Thio Su Mien said the following :

Pointing out that Aware’s programme was already in 30 schools, she said: ‘The suggestion is that in this programme, young girls from 12 to 18 are taught that it’s okay to experiment with each other.

For her to have make such a statement at a press conference, either

a) she has personally witnessed the conduct of such a programme in school; or
b) she has reviewed the teaching materials used for this programme; or
c) she has received feedback from students/parents of students who had attended the programme.

This is a very serious allegation. The 30 schools concerned must now response to this allegation. If not, then the public will have to assumed what Dr Thio alleged is true.

If it is true, then the principals of the 30 schools concerned must be held responsible for allowing such suggestions to be taught. The role of the Ministry of Education in this must also be explained and held accountable.

For topics such as sexual education, one would expect either MOE or the school principals or designated teachers of the schools to have vetted the materials to be taught to childrens. In addition, one would expect a teacher to be present during the conduct of the programme to ensure that the speaker did not introduce unapproved topics for a programme as important as sexual education.

If MOE or the schools have vetted the materials, does that imply they approve the materials ? If they have approved the materials, does that imply they approve lesbian behaviour as Dr Thio had implied in her statement. If not, then why not ? The believe the parents of students of those 30 schools would like to know.

The implication of Dr Thio’s allegation is there is a dereliction of duty on the part of MOE and/or the 30 schools concerned.

MOE and the 30 schools concerned must now clarify the actual situation with regard to the sexual education programmes being conducted in these shcools.

i believe the ministers does not receive death threats as often as these group of people do.
what they have done must have infuriated many people.

I hope the new guard wouldn’t start to educate people using missionary position. hahaha.

44) la nausée on April 24th, 2009 2.44 pm ,

try repeal 377A and the floodgate lifted it will be like the 7th hungry ghost .The gate of hell opens and out rush the gays exhibiting their life style at every corner of singapore. But becuase it is criminal this keeps the lid on. Maybe you don’t travel in public transport, you see them quite often, young lesbians, gays, hugging, stroking each other to embarrassment of some conservative commuters.

#63) Peace on April 25th, 2009 12.17 am

No one is talking about 377A here. Stop trying to distract from the issue of hijacking AWARE for narrow-minded bigoted reasons by these fundies.

And I travel in public transport everyday. That’s hilarious what you say, really funny, most of the time, the train is so crowded how the hell can anyone engage in some serious fondling. But thanks for a good laugh.

Peace,

Can you tell me which bus or mrt line you take everyday so I can go and watch? I’m so sick of seeing young straight students hugging and stroking each other on public transport, it’s time for a change.

Also please kindly, if you know, point me to any places which old fags and dykes openly fornicate because it’s a spectacle I’ve never seen before in all my years of existence in Singapore.

Oh. And hugs.

PIECE, there is so much free entertainment on public buses, meh? Bet you started sweating and squirmed ever so slightly in your seat. See a gay at every corner?

Reminds me of an old schoolfriend – xtian, lawyer- I met for lunch. A couple of men got into the lift with us at the hotel. I carried on conversing with her, though her face went a bit tight. The moment the men exited, she was all “them gays are everyway and so damn blatant about it” .

You know, those two guys were perfectly normal and GAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INDICATION of being gays (well apart, from wearing rather shiny, tight t-shirts). When I remonstrated that we, two women together could just as easily be mistaken for a couple of lesbians, she just laughed wildly. She bitterly resented sharing public space with those two men. What’s with (some) xtians and homosexuality? It’s learned prejudice; she wasnt so bad when we were in JC and definitely a couple of the boys we knew were gay.

@Peace (#63), who said: “Maybe you don’t travel in public transport, you see them quite often, young lesbians, gays, hugging, stroking each other to embarrassment of some conservative commuters.”

Like Zefly (#65) said, you mean straight couples don’t openly make out on our public transport, HDB void decks and lift landings, public parks and beaches, etc.? If your opposition to decriminalizing MSM is based on its alleged causal link to sex in public places, then your claim doesn’t hold water. Besides, we already have the Miscellaneous Offences (Public Order and Nuisance) Act to deal with public nudity and the Penal Code to deal with outrages to modesty against women, so why the need for 377A to prevent public displays of sexuality?

In reality, your support for 377A is based on a visceral disgust towards homosexual sex, so that in your view it deserves to be singled out for differential treatment. If so, I wish you’d state that openly, rather than throwing up that ol’ smokescreen of how 377A deters ‘fornication in the streets’.

Peace,

[quote]Why the number dropped to 200 after 24 years?[/quote]

You ever seen the Stephen Chow movie, King of Beggars? At the end of the show, he said to the Emperor, that the size of his sect is determined by the Emperor and not him. For if he manages the country well, and everyone is wealthy, why would anyone want to be a beggar?

So when you asked why the number has dropped…
could it be that most women have already been helped?
Most women felt that they have achieved equal status and AWARE is out of their minds as a result?

HT’,
don’t try to split your hairs , you know what i mean.
Oh , you only travel in packed train. I understand why.How could you notice when you are so engrossed in your own world? Poor 9-5 worker, no chance to watch PDA.

Zefly,
don’t be like HT above, he travels in packed train only. He misses all the actions of young lesbaian or gays performing PDA . I didn’t know you are keen at old fags or old hags conjugating ,just look outside your door, you might find a couple.I guess as much , you are just existing and not living. it is a wonder you notice anything like that in your neigbourhood… You deserve a hug from behind , by your protege the old AWARE is championing.

to (36) your series of emails are really revealing….. if they are genuiue, these people are………..first a group of 6, then come with Dr Thio, then now a pastor….what more to come??? there is this lettter to be circulated to church members, but i dont receive the so called letter, so does the church also have an exclusive and inclusive list for their membership……….I ask because my husband and i didnt receive………..

When Dr Thio mentioned that the Old Aware are her comtemporaries and friends…then why can’t she bring her concerns directly to her so called comtemp and friends, why would she wants to do a thing like that behind friends?????? now this is becoming friend betrayed friends…..no wonder Constance Singam tears…..Hey Dr Thio, would you like your friend betrayed you or stabbng you at your back??????

To COOS, isn’t COOS supposed to spread the words of GOD??? why is COOS getting itself involve with the AWARE saga???? is the pastor jia pa kar eng bo tai ji chor????? does COOS only serve Dr Thio and gang or the general public who are attending the church??????

to continue (60)
Dr Thio and her like minded, There are many ways to a problem ( if there is a problem), why choose the worst way to address it???? Now you have indirectly dragged in MOE and 30 schools which are using the AWARE’s programme, are you saying they are all wrong and you are the only right?????? Have you personally done your check and balance before you shoot your bullets……… make sure you dont make a baseless accusation hor…….

Concerned citizen??

A great mistake had already been made if one supported and choose someone who hold a senior position but does not show good example and do not take simple instruction , to be a leader.
Someone who told her subordinate who are single that the best place to look for a partner is at a certain places of worship.Such leaders are a threat to society and I even feel that ISD should look into it.

While one can claim that there are signs that the old team is promoting lesbian or homo ,one should also be able to tell the sign of someone having something to promote behind the scene.

She’s the ignoramus and it’s pathetic that she can’t see it.
Acting like a typically self righteous born again Christian.

*rolls eyes*

[...] I don’t understand is, why are these people promoting hate? And they claim it self righteousness, clutching the Bible to their chest, quoting it word for word [...]

“Masculine gay” from a “jihadist sleeper cell?” Sounds like something written by Alfian Sa’at to me.

Looks like the Thio family is more influential than the ruling LEE family when it comes to social mores & acceptable standards of behaviour among Sporeans!

Some observations:
1) Josie Lau is still with DBS. Does this mean that DBS has also been muted by the Thio family too? Wow, the Thio family is very powerful if that’s the case. As general consensus goes, Josie Lau really crossed the line when she acted like a screaming banshee when she called in the contractors to install electronic gates to prevent Old Aware members from getting in. That show of utter militancy is also her true character & why is DBS allowing such a person to continue heading the credit cards department? Does DBS allow militancy executives to promote their irrational behaviour within the organization?

2) Are certain PAP members also active members of this church that the majority of New Aware members attend & are on their side, hence the nonchalant attitude towards New Aware high handed tactics? The press statements on Sat 15 April in ST seems to show nonchalance towards this uncharitable act of Christians behaving like spoilt brats & spilling over onto false accusations of the way Sporeans should abide by a certain code of conduct propagated by a church. Registrar of Societies should step in & wave a red flag at the New Aware Committee.

3) New Aware showed its true colors by revealing how parochial they are in their views on women welfare and the word done by Old Aware thru 2 decades. These militant religious group simply chose to highlight isolated incidents & blew them up like mega issues that were life & death matters for New Aware! Looks like they learnt a lot from the ruling gahment on character assasination, learn to sieve minute details & make them as glaring as possible.

4) the public backlash is gaining more momentum now that the Thio family show how conniving they are. They probably underestimated the fact that they are held in high esteem since their daughter served as an NMP. In fact, nobody thinks highly of that Thio NMP too even though she thinks she is damn good. Bah!

Oops re Point 2 above should read as “press statements on Sat 25 April” NOT 15 April.

Quote, Insisting that she was not anti-homosexual, she said: ‘I have nothing against lesbians or homosexuals personally. On a personal front, I’ve ministered, I’ve counselled them.

‘They are in pain. And very often from families where you have abusive fathers, they do things with their daughters and the daughters revolt, rebel against society.

‘We understand this is what it’s all about.’ Unquote.

A bit arrogant huh. Conflating homosexuality with family abuse? And isn’t she pro-family?

“‘So I’m a concerned citizen and if people are so ignorant, I think I want to teach them.’”

Change that to missionary and poof you have your overzealous evangelist.

this new Exco is a threat to the very social fabric of S’pore. they have tarnished themselves & their religion.

since a handfull of the Exco are from the same church, this issue makes me wonder what that church preaches… this is very, very disturbing.

#48 Peace

Being a medical doctor i can assure you that lesbianism is NOT an illness, not by any psychological or physical definition.

Stop mixing religion with politics and the affairs of the state. As an NGO AWARE is supposed to take an impartial stand on the issues they deal with.

With a mad(wo)man heading the association it signals the downfall of society if we let her get away with what she does. It’s the same issue with Lee Bee Hua and her Olympics table tennis hooha. If we let these individuals go ahead and impose their perceived moral values on everyone of us (to the Extent of calling us IGnorant) surely we are a bunch of couch potatoes who sit down and watch the show unfold without intervening when we have the chance.

Therefore i urge every woman who is able and willing to stand up for her rights, both personal and for the state to speak out against these “dictators” before they start taking over your lives.

Well, Dr Alan Chin (TSM’s nephew) can also say “Being a medical doctor i can assure you that lesbianism IS an illness”, and such a serious one that we need to use stealth and stormtrooper tactics to “cure” them.

They say USA is turning to a muslim state, we can say SG is turning to a Christian state.

You can’t pray away the gay, sorry. Nor can you cure it. Even China has decided that homosexuality can no longer be considered a mental illness; is the village mentality of some Singaporeans such that they have yet to update themselves on this fact? I shudder to imagine Dr Thio Su-mien’s brand of feminism with the way she jabs that big red morality panic button with the warning that merely acknowledging the biological basis of homosexuality will turn Singapore, particularly Singaporean womanhood, into a nation of flaming queers. ‘Police the women! Make sure 100% of them remain the good baby-making machines they are.’ Her focus on male homosexual activists and women with no agency, who are susceptible to ‘corruption’ by non-patriarchal ideologies, exposes her beliefs for what they are: fundamentalist, anti-choice (forget that pretty phrase, ‘pro-family’) and misogynistic.

Peace,
“public transport, you see them quite often, young lesbians, gays, hugging, stroking each other to embarrassment of some conservative commuters.”

Haha, this is super retarded. I take the public transport everyday and I have never seen such stuff. Besides, asians care a lot about FACE. I bet you’re chauffeured around in taxis and cars and never took a public transport before. Spoilt rich brats makes me laugh..

75) Xavier M.D on April 25th, 2009 12.11 pm

so you think that gays and lesbians are normal people and their way of life is normal. Same sex marriage is acceptable becuase they need love too?
I am no doctor and you don’t need to be a doctor to know they are not normal. There is something wrong and if you start from that premise maybe a way can be found to help them instead of telling them what they are doing is cool, fashionable and all students should emulate. Don’t worry, freely express your sexuality any where and any time you please. You don’t need condoms anyway but on second thought better to carry them just in case one party may be carry HIVs instead of condoms.
No wonder , birthrate is declining and population is aging.

Peace, sometimes it doesn’t hurt to think more rationally. All the education we get in SIngapore… unfortunately… seems to elude you. Gays are not normal but they are not abnormal. Remember not all religions started orthodox and normal.

Parents like us are not ignorant. It’s lawyers like you who needs a power, money and social status check. You already have everything and yet the hunger for more consumes you. After FEMINIST MENTOR. would you like a MINISTER MENTOR?

#79 Peace

That’s really funny, Peace. Thanks for the post. You really crack me up. Yup, as everyone knows, Japan (with the largest aging population) is swarming with gays. Must be all that sushi they eat, the wasabi causes the deadly disease, gaytitis.

to “79) Peace”

I would point out that insisting muleheadedly something is deviant and wrong, in the face of medical evidence AND lack of proof to the contrary, is irrational. I would also suggest that jumping to conclusions, that accepting homosexuality is a neutral fact, constitutes ‘promoting’ it (homosexuality) as cool and fashionable, has no logical link. I would also express my confusion over how declining birthrates have got anything to do with homosexuals, because it’s heterosexual couples’ fault they aren’t making babies or don’t want them.

But I wouldn’t bother, because verbose, irrational people who refuse to listen to people far more educated than I, won’t listen to me.

plopp, HT , haha

It is no mystery why birth rate is falling. Not much heteroesexual copulation. Anal sex is not copulation with procreation in mind. it is sensually sexual lifestyle something made popular by gays. If heterosexuals are caught up with this lifestyle how is birth rate helped. Anal sex CANNOT increase the birth rate. Same sex marriage CANNOT increase birth rate. Condoms CANNOT increase the birth rate. Oral sex CANNOT increase birth rate. Abortion kills the birth rate. Copulation is reduced sensual pleasure is increased. All these indulgences increase HIVs.

Re 84) Peace – Yr obsession with birth rates & ’sensually sexual lifestyle’ made popular by gays’ is quite extraordinary, to say the very least.
How do you know so much abt anal sex, oral sex, etc,etc???
Are you one of those habitually jerk off to the ’sensually sexual’ stuff u see often on Internet porn- in secret, of course? ;-)
Little wonder you are so obsessed with such things.
And how you come to define gays/ lesbians only by smut like these. ..fyi dear, those ppl are just GAY-FOR-PAY- meaning people pay them big money for to perform (commercial) same-sex. Don’t take those too seriously, most of the time they are heteros in real life… . better get yr head out of all these sex-stuff,-
and sex porn lol- or before long all yr neuro-reflexes & even yr brain will be hijacked by the stubborn wilfullness of yr dick, if it already isn’t happening to you now. ;-)

84) Peace on April 26th, 2009 4.11 pm

you there!
troll!
yeah you!

“I am no doctor”
=> evidently

“Condoms CANNOT increase the birth rate.”
“All these indulgences increase HIVs.”
=> and hetero sex WITHOUT condoms doesn’t? It’s so bad and stupid, it’s hilarious.

People, trolls are not worth more than a line or two. Peace obviously has problems putting on its shoes every morning. Let us not give it more attention than it has already received.

cheers.

re 85) Peace

why are you bringing the issue of falling birthrates into this Aware saga? do you think Aware should be responsible for the falling birthrates? lol.

there are many factors affecting birth rates. must we legislate our women to give birth by a certain age? NS ah?

you have a very warped mind…

No wonder , birthrate is declining and population is aging.: Peace.

Let be put your theory of homosexuals being the reason for our declining birth rates to rest.

In May 2000, MP Dr Wang Kai Yuen warned: ”A nation that cannot revert its declining birth rate is effectively committing collective suicide”. The root of the problem lies in the perceptions of young women toward family life, he argued. – http://www.atimes.com/se-asia/BE02Ae02.html

For many young Singaporeans with well-paid professional jobs and career ambitions, child rearing, and even marriage, takes lower priority.

”The amount of stress and commitments required in marriage and having children can put off modern Singaporean women”

“… the declining birth rates are due to the high cost of living in Singapore and its demanding education system”.

The above are but three oft-heard comments on declining birthrate and reported by Asia Times in 2000.

Dana Lam-Teo, president AWARE, argued that the root of the problem is societal values and attitudes and the decision to have a baby is a private one between two people. ”Their values and expectations from life come into play,” she said in an interview. ”The national environment equally plays a part in that decision.”

Dana argued that the government must come up with more pro-family policies such as a five-day week in the public service, so couples have more time with children; more family-oriented workplace policies such as longer maternity leave and sick-child leave, and quality childcare at the workplace.

Then PM LKY drew attention to the increasing number of single graduate women.

Sociologist Dr Paulin Tay Straughan argued that Singapore’s mindset about work and family time needs to change before the downward trend of fertility rates can be reversed. ”Society must recognise the importance of family time,” she said. ”It cannot be seen as surplus work time.”.

There is no mention of the homosexual implication.

The second part of your claim, that homosexuals are the cause of an aging population … “ No …… population is aging“, reflects the disposition you are now in – desperate! You are desperate to not face the truth that lies before you.

Read your statement again; and tell us how you attribute the aging population to homosexuality?

[...] – It was only last week when Dr Thio Su Mien made the following claims regarding AWARE’s comprehensive sexuality (CSE) program especially with regards to her focus [...]

No wonder , birthrate is declining and population is aging.: Peace.

I’ve got a theory where Peace may have a valid point after all:

Homosexuality is aging the population;
by being material for the bigots (like Dr Thio) to give the rest of us white hairs in combating misinformation and intolerance.

heh.

TSM is amazing. Betcha Palpatine couldn’t have done any better.

[...] all the anti- and pro-homosexual rights cum christianity debate rife in the media, it was interesting to see where all this was heading and what the people of singapore thought [...]