The following is a letter which was sent to the Straits Times.
Ash Tong
As the recession might be hitting Singapore hard, I hope that the HDB will be transparent with how their market pricing model works.
I refer to the 4 room flats in Treetops@punggol project as an example. Treetop@punggol was released April 2008 and the indicative price range for a 4-room flat then was $208,000 to $254,000.
In the October 2008 half annual sale, the price range for Treetops was then listed between $235,000 -$309,000.
In The Half Annual Sale in April 2009, the same development is being sold between $276,000 and $298,000.
The difference translates to at least a 15% price increase. No amenities have been built nearby yet. Neither are there any differences from the master plan for Punggol 21.
From the HDB statistics, blocks 293-297’s past resale prices in Punggol since 2008 have not shown any variation. This is used as comparison as they are the premium flats and in the same proximity as Treetops and the other BTO projects in the past year.
I do understand that HDB now prices their flats by market value. Can HDB please address and justify that the market value in the vicinity has risen since April 2008?
The same reasoning should also apply to the higher prices in Punggol Acardia and Sapphire in relation to Treetops. These projects were all released within a year of each other.
Read also: Treetops@Punggol overscribed by four times. (CNA)
——
20 years ago, my parents bought a 5-room at Bt Panjang for $80,000. Heard that now, we can sell it for $300,000++. Useless good news, cos if we sell now, and buy another 5-room, we need to pay $300,000++ for the new one. So, LP, PL. Useless asset appreciation, unless you have few properties to play with.
Actually, if our pay has increased inline with price increase of HDB flats, it would not be a problem. However, that is not the case. Our pay has stagnated or decreased over the years, but not the salaries of MPs and ministers.
Are we paying more for 99-year HDB flats to feed some parasites?
What recession? People are still queuing up to buy!
It is the case of willing seller, willing buyer. A deal between 2 consenting adults!
What is there to complain?
After all, with 50% walkovers, 66% mandate and 98% seats for PAP, majority of us adults must have understood what we are doing.
#2 Still got buyer what!
Still got buyer, because bo bian. unless don’t get married, don’t have kids, or stay with parents and squeeze. you want?
I wonder if the money made from HDB flats contributes to our GDP growth? and I know our minister’s bonus is linked to GDP growth….
The HDB profit has probably gone to the Singapore Sovereign Wealth Fund and you know where that has gone to ……
1) Small Time Businessman on April 18th, 2009 1.17 am 20 years ago, my parents bought a 5-room at Bt Panjang for $80,000
Unlucky … Your parents chose the wrong estate..
aiyoyo
Y hdb so expensive???
alamak man on the street how to cope + survive???
Y no elites talk/help man on the street huh???
think really need to work whole life just to get a shelter over our head…
one more sad story
aiyoyo
Government wants to suck us dry. higher price, higher interest profit. Mah Pow Tan say singaporen no need so much living space, but he got a villa in Malaysia. Maybe he not singaporean.
my concern, is the never ending shifting of goal post. the market pricing model has and will become an irreversible mistake as many would be left with negative equity. but what gives rise to shifting the goalpost(price range) of the same development within a year for no reason or rhyme?
I have not received any reply from ST yet..
for those buying the 2 new dbss,
angmokio dbss was sold to developer at 237psf. the plot in toa payoh was sold at a much lower price at 160psf due to the softening market
yet their market selling prices are the same,property developer maximising profit? or instructions to create this artificial floor? you decide..
same thing goes for simei and bishan.
HDB is the benchmark of property prices in Singapore…..so Private properties rely on HDB prices….Singapore relys on construction so much, that they will never let this sector go down…..
Finally, people are getting to understand, how they are being screwed….
market conditions are so bad and yet pricing is silly…..well, the prices are kept stable by FT’s who also need a place to stay…..and FT’s to come they need a job….and that job is YOURS…..
Now you all see the co-relation, why half the casino jobs must go to FT’s….this will go on….and on….until we put a stop to it….the next 3 years we should be able to decide well in our elections….
DBSS——
Did HDB make about $200,000 plus PER UNIT of those Design, Built and Sell Scheme (DBSS) ? The private developers have to take loan to built from bare land and the risk of not able to sell all and making little or no profit. Just imagine, Ang Mo kio over 500 units, Boon Keng over 700 units, Bishan over 400 units, Toa Payoh over 1200 units, Simei over 300 units. All the risk go to the developers but HDB pocket the most but zero risk.
Resale HDB—–
With the influx of higher educated workforce and many of these (10 of thousands to 100 of thousands) becoming PR or citizens, this have artificially pushed up HDB resale prices. Beside, private property owners could have speculated with HDB too as they can buy low and sell high and still have a roof to live in their private home. In the last handful of years, HDB prices have gone up easily over 40% to as high at 80%.
All these will translate to slaving for life for many mid to low income earner who have to live to pay for their fixed assets. Not live to enjoy life anymore.
Can they say oh, the price is heavily subsidised olady ?
can or not? kekekekekekeke
regards
kyoto gulan
Condo like HDB is $730k. I think the reason is to ensure all our money in the CPF cannot be withdrawn with these huge loans. A lot of losses in GIC/Temasek, they need new schemes to prevent us from withdrawing CPF upon retirement.
Let’s not jump and put any blame on FT and PRs.
I have heard someone say PR and FT cannot buy new HDB flats unless their spouse is a Singaporean, can anyone verify this?
The gist is more of the blatant manipulation by HDB,the constant shifting of price range for NEW FLATS northwards.
I will never pay so so high price on brick and motar so to speak!
BTO not condo status nor facilities but with amenities …..no logic to be over priced ?. Condo is still value for money! …..enbloc-potential and great living that is nothing compared in term of security too.
We hear about HONDA Hybrid – Eco friendly cars now we hear about DBSS or BTO or HDB – HYBRID DEVELOPMENT BUILDINGs sprouting all over the island that is so high priced to private condo yet nothing come close to Condos in terms of facilities and Security etc.
PAP’s policy is that the people cannot benefit too much at the expense of the government who believe they are responsible for the enhancement of the properties. Owners of properties adjacent to MRT stations suffered in silence when their properties were acquired by the government while those in other countries have windfalls. A condo which lost some parking lots was compensated only $10! What a joke. Have the value of these condo units increased in value after the enhancement by the MRT?
This acquisition of land and properties at minimal prices and the subsequence sale or auction at the highest bids is one way the government had used to increase the financial reserves. I remembered many years ago, a dilapidated shophouse at Chinatown was sold at more than $5 million by tender while it was compulsorily acquired at peanut price.
As Goh C T once repeated on TV what the common folks here lamented: ‘People have no money, Government have money.’ It is true.
This has always been a question in my head.
I do not have the answer.
I wonder how many smart people of s’pore knows what happens to pools revenue. i find it a very interesting question. If anyone knows, please reply here. Else, i assume no one knows. for sure.
singapore pools…hdb….all for one purpose….i am so fed up with this place.
#18) Allow me to digress
‘……………………….. what happens to pools revenue.’
………………………………………………………..
Many smart people including school principals and government-controlled NGOs have applied to S Pools for financial assisstance for their projects. One principal declined the post when he was told that the Christian school could not accept financial assisstance from S Pools.
For other details you have to ask the government to reveal.
Some citizens have being pressing government to release the cost price of building HDB flats in order to know how much profits were made for each unit sold. But up to present there is no valid of such information. Let us ask ourselves why did government not reveal the cost price to the public and let the people decide whether HDB flats are built affordable to average Singaporeans or just simply for obscene profiteering for people up there which is akin to slaving Singaporean’s lives for someone else’s greed? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=12706
Who took over HDB now!
In the 90s, when he took over LTA, he implement COE.
In 20XX, when he took over HDB he control the supply which push up prices.
LKY love him very much cause he earn money for him!
Guess who he is !!!!
I have said that HDB prices are way beyond the comfortable level of the common man.
My advice to peole here is to either stay in their first flat which is between $200K – $300K or sell out after making 50% of the purhcase price and downgrade.
Many got trapped when they sell and them pocket some profit but later bought back another more expensive flat due to the promise of more profits. We all knew that at least 80% of those who bought second hand bigger flats all lose money.
First they lost when they take up a big loan of say $300k as already they lose by paying interest to the bank. Banks all make big money from upgraders. For a loan of $300k over 25 years at 3% interest rate, you would have pay close to $500,000 at the end of the tenure period. Many defaulted when someone goes out of job and when they sold off due to unforeseen circumstances, they lose most of their hard earned CPF also.
Secondly, a property that is bought with big loans can never be a good investment due to the interest repayment. It is wise to also cash out if you can earn around 30% of any second hand HDB property. This is tough as most would have buy their resale property at market price. Never be too loyal to your property as many hold on despite earning close to $200K here. When the market turned you may find yourself regretting your decision.
Try to rent if possible at least fater you have dispoed of your property for a profit. Those who sell and buy high never make anything from their purchases. You merely transfer owernerhsip.
I would like to hear your comments to the statement that HDB flats are all HEAVILY Subsidised.
#24
I do not buy their argument of subsidy at all.
Unknown to most, many are not eligible for grants if the project you are buying is not under DBSS scheme. HDB’s take is that normal flats are already subsidized enough so no more grants can be given.
If i price something at $200, give u a 50% discount but my cost price is only $20
What kind of subsidy is that?
I would like to point out, i wrote this article not focusing on how expensive the new flats are (that was addressed in a separate article) but on how HDB has sneakily upped the price range for no reason.
They have abused their power to implement a unjustifiable “Market pricing system” and now furthermore they have abused the “market pricing system” by shifting the goalpost northwards for no reason!
It is a double whammy to all.
what do you guys suggest HDB’s profit margin should be?
only idiots will get marry just for their so call susidies
aiyoyo
look at today cna news :
“HDB receives 178 applications so far for Lease Buyback Scheme”
if hdb is affordable to man on the street, does he need to go for buyback?
aiyoyo
The prices of new flats are too expensive for me.. and guess wat? my fiancee is threatening to leave me cos I didnt give in to her request to buy the recently launched DBSS. She said I’m too cheap… Sad huh..
Work 30yrs to pay a cheapskate cubical with no sense of privacy from up, down, left, right that u call home then ur son still have to do NS & compete FT for place at uni and for job…sigh.. the grass does seems greener on the other side.
There is another problem with HDB that few realised. They have changed the way they calculate the floor area. Twenty years ago, it was the built in area. So if you buy a 110 sq metre flat, you get all 110 sq metre. Nowadays, the same area includes the aircon ledge and other protrusions. The unfair part happened during the late 1990s when many purchasers did not realise the change and HDB did not announce it. So many buyers ended up forfeiting their hardearned money when they surrender the newly bought flats due to the method of calculations being changed. For example, the new five room flat is not any bigger than their old four room flat so it is like paying more but downgrading in terms of size. I hope TOC can bring this matter up since all my efforts fell on deaf ears and they have conveniently moved on on the matter.
Many years ago, Chiam S T had a running battle in parliament with LKY over the topic of HDB subsidy. LKY’s stand was that HDB prices did not factor in the market value of the land or else the prices would be as high as private flats. CST replied that the government had compulsorily acquired the land at minimal cost and had made millions from its own citizens. Whereupon, LKY challenged CST to build HDB flats at a lower price to sell to the people.
LKY admitted that the government is playing the role of Robin Hood. He praised the late Mr Teh C W for his diligence and capabilty as the Minister for ND.
One observation I have made over the years. Never be highly praised by LKY. It is dangerous and maybe fatal: Teh C W, G Knight, Wee M C, D N, etc….
15% increase in 1 year? If only my salary increase just as much. Sigh.
For many years, a certain law firm earned all the stamp fees from every HDB transactions. It enriched the family. It is not just profiteering by HDB, but money from small private pockets into HUGE private pocket.
Which law firm is it? I did not know there is monopoly in such things. I always thought that people are free to go to whichever law firm they want. How can public transaction be diverted to a specific private law firm? Isn’t this ethically wrong?
this is the best way of making the govt coffer rich. that is where they have invested overssea widely esp last few years.
now, since billions lost, think of getting back your hard (blood and sweat) money? no way!! that is why GCT’s time of increasing the ceiling right up to $120,000.00 being lock up in half asset and half money. and then now this life long plan which means lock it all if possible. CRAP!!!!!!!!!
after having to struggle for over 30 years and this is what you get. mind you, cpf monies is totally ours not govts. the funny part is your money and they instructed you what to do and spend it. i can’t recall any country in this world is doing that.
its really indeed unique here…….
Law firm = Lee and Lee
Every HDB transaction uses them as the conveyancing lawyer.
been going on for donkey years…
why don’t they just build a pool at the void deck, convert one 5 room unit into a gym and call it HDB condo lor. Since the price equally expensive wat!
wait, not forgetting to get contractors to build a cattle fence around the buidings and employ some foreign worker security guide. Wah, you got condo facility man.
And they dare nail the honourable Ren Ci chief, who has spent decades enriching and helping the lives of many Singaporeans, for lending $50,000 to a close aide. Tsk Tsk, who would bother to spend their lives helping others from now onwards. We are punishing good people and making them appear like demons. Singapore is now going to the dogs, and donkeys. Sad
anybody know the monopoly to the law firm is when to when? can make this an issue or not?
Should be a very big open target leh….
The million-dollar minitoots and the PAPpies have always maintained that HDB flats are “affordable”. However, they have failed to mention how affordable, and to whom…..maybe only when referring to themselves.
What we need is transparency on the actual cost of the land (usually free from gahmen acquisitions) and the cost of construction of HDB housing, and the profit margin that the gahmen and the HDB gains from sale (actually, it is a 99-yr lease) of the pigeon-holes to the gullible Singapore peasants.
In addition, the gahmen has always implied that HDB housing are “our homes”, when in reality the pigeon-holes are in fact owned by the HDB landlord, and those who “buy” are in fact 99-yr (or less) lease tenants.
37) Ash Tong on April 20th, 2009 3.23 pm Law firm = Lee and Lee
Every HDB transaction uses them as the conveyancing lawyer.
been going on for donkey years…
If I am not wrong, it is even compulsary that only this law firm handles all hdb transaction as no other license are being given to others to do the job. If that’s so, then too bad singaporeans just have to pay whatever the fee calls for as there is no other firm to compete with.
Let’s face it…our own HDB home is not really a asset, or at least a liquid asset. Even though we sort of like ‘own’ our home, this ownership is just a symbolic name. We have little control over what we do with it.
The prices are definitely controlled by HDB. Valuation is hugely based on the valuation of surrounding houses. What are the possible reasons that it would rise or drop? Can someone enlighten me?
Recession will be there..but man will still work and have a family..so they will still buy properties and have it designed http://sg.88db.com/sg/Services/Post_Detail.page/Home_Services/Interior_Design/?PostID=554911 i like condo better because when i am in travel i can leave it…
The first flats were built with real cost subsidies. The newer flats are now built with market subsidies.
In the past, flats were sold based on cost price. Now new flats are sold based on market subsidy, where market values of new flats are based on prices of “resale flats” in mature estates.
In the past, new flats were S$X. Resale flats were priced higher due to better location etc, hence S$X + S$Y, where S$Y is the resale premium.
Now, new flats are (S$X + S$Y) x market subsidy factor. Resale flats then are priced even higher because now you need to have ((S$X + S$Y) x market subsidy factor) + S$Z.
The premium in resale flats have shifted from S$Y, now to S$Z, and the old premium is already incorporated in the new flat’s selling price.
Hence, over time, you can see an artificial upward price spiral
Bulk of our GDP comes from property, and part of it is from HDB. So by artificially manipulating the HDB prices, PAP government can declare that our GDP have grown, and therefore, justify for their million dollar salary.
Legal Eagle has described very succintly what has really happened on the ground. Besides jacking up the prices over the years, the actual sizes of the respective types of flats have shrunk. There is a large group of HDB upgraders who were shocked to find the smaller sizez when they upgrade and ended up surrendering their flats. I am one of them. Is there any recourse as appeals to MPs and HDB did not work. HDB had blatantly changed their mode of calculating floor area and did not inform this group of upgraders. Instead of admitting their mistake, they have imposed heavy fines and ban these upgraders from applying for HDB flats for the next ten years. This happened during 1999 period. Are there any recourse? Is there any fair play? How can a civilised society turn a blind eye to such blatant abuses of its citizens?
“32) Edward on April 19th, 2009 10.42 pm
Many years ago, Chiam S T had a running battle in parliament with LKY over the topic of HDB subsidy. LKY’s stand was that HDB prices did not factor in the market value of the land or else the prices would be as high as private flats. CST replied that the government had compulsorily acquired the land at minimal cost and had made millions from its own citizens. Whereupon, LKY challenged CST to build HDB flats at a lower price to sell to the people.
LKY admitted that the government is playing the role of Robin Hood. He praised the late Mr Teh C W for his diligence and capabilty as the Minister for ND.
One observation I have made over the years. Never be highly praised by LKY. It is dangerous and maybe fatal: Teh C W, G Knight, Wee M C, D N, etc….
”
I wonder if CST had taken up the challenge, would LKY have given him a free hand in acquiring a piece of land and tender it out for building homes for Singaporeans. And if CST had taken up his challenge, would the funds available for HDB to use for house building be accessible to CST as well to ensure a level playing field?
Too bad this is one challenge that CST could not take up as he knows that the red tape LKY’s lackeys will put him thru, would be enough to bury him in paper work for years before any tender could be put up for the job!
Sigh… If only there could be some one who could make the MIW eat their words!
I urge TOC to take up this challenge to expose the way HDB cunningly and injustifiably makes money out of its citizens. Many upgraders felt like downgrading because of the change in the sizes of the flats which were not reflected when we applied for it, thinking that the same way of calculation was used. As a result, we were penalised and in my case, lost more than $11,000 as penalties for what essentially is HDB’s fault in misrepresentation. I am willing to show proof of these to TOC is required. Of course, by now, HDB has tightened its PR and make buyers sign a disclaimer. But what about those who have been penalised unfairly? The penalty is many years of hard work in wages that HDB has taken away when they are the one at fault in the first place. Where is the justice. This can be a national issue if TOC is willing to investigate and expose it. Many Singaporeans are unaware of it and those who were victims have no recourse and just move on to avoid more heartache. Please help to resurrect this issue and make it known to the top leaders otherwise they may still think that HDB has done a good job.