Choo Zheng Xi / Editor-in-Chief
If you have been following TOC regularly, you would have noticed some changes and improvements to our coverage.
As a form of participatory media, we think it’s important for us to share with you, our readers and stakeholders, how we will continue to evolve and improve in the years to come. We’d also like to share with you our core set of values and ideals, as well as our organizational direction, so you have a sense of what keeps our website going and so that you can be a part of that process.
Our website is premised on a core set of foundational objectives. They are:
1) To be a platform for civic participation
2) To make our government accountable, transparent and representative
3) To create a culture of media freedom in Singapore
Civic participation
TOC believes that a functioning democracy requires contributions from all members of society. We believe that it is in the country’s best interest to involve each and every Singaporean, especially vocal critics of this Party centric narrative, a chance to shape the future of our country.
For too long, the national dialogue has been stunted by its over-reliance on a unitary national narrative: that Singapore is synonymous with the PAP government.
This has not been helped by a timid media, which has branded itself a “nation building press”. In reality, the “nation building press” has failed to provide Singaporeans with alternative perspectives, which genuine nation building requires.
By thinking of, and writing about issues of national importance, Singaporeans can begin to take ownership of issues which will affect all of our lives. Participation is the true key to a sense of belonging, not a conditioned monolithic national education.
Hence, it is our policy to provide strong coverage to activist events and initiatives which might not otherwise get a national airing. Activism needs to stop being a dirty word in our country, it needs to be encouraged. This activist spirit of courage in the face of opposition and creativity in execution is what our country needs to move ahead.
This principle of civic participation also underlines the creation of our newest feature, TOC International, which reaches out to overseas Singaporeans and keeps them involved in discussing national politics.
We also believe that the much touted “youth apathy” is a self-fulfilling myth: young people need to be involved as they are the policymakers of tomorrow. Hence TOC’s focus on recruiting youth writers and reporters.
The second characterization of our national narrative that TOC rejects is the notion that our country is a company: Singapore Inc. This mercenary culture is bad for nation building. In the late David Marshall’s words, we have become “worshippers of the Golden Calf”.
If Singaporeans share no idealism except the logic of the free market, we will sell our citizenships to the highest bidder, the country that can accord us the better standard of life. We believe that Singapore’s success should be judged on how well we take care of our poorest and most vulnerable, and not how well we remunerate our elites.
This consideration informs our commitment to cover cost of living issues, the growing income gap, the lack of empathy of highly paid civil servants, as well as coverage of the stories of the poor and underprivileged in society.
Open, accountable and representative government
Civic participation will lead to frustration if our enquiries are met with bureaucratic stonewalling, and our feedback goes down administrative black holes. The efforts of citizens to participate in the national discourse need to bear fruit.
TOC believes in the dictum that a government should fear its people and not the other way round. Members of Parliament (MPs) that are voted for in batches of six are not individually accountable to their constituents, and the deterrent effect it has on opposition challenges leaves government MPs untested on the electoral field of battle.
In between elections, citizens need to have the right to hold their MPs to account. This is where civil liberties such as the right to free speech and assembly are critical to public expressions of dissatisfaction.
This informs our consistent advocacy for a fairer electoral playing field and stronger protections for civil liberties.
Also in line with this objective, TOC will continue to focus on articles asking probing questions of our elected leaders and municipal functionaries.
We are also working to develop a team of specialist commentators to write on questions of accountability relating to public finances and government policies.
Media freedom
A free media culture is crucial for the development of critical thought. The mainstream media has shortchanged Singaporeans by choosing to tell only One Singapore story, but the dominant and domineering political culture is largely to blame for the timidity of our press.
This desire to see more balance informs our coverage criticizing the mainstream press.
TOC understands that we have a positive role to play in creating this culture of media freedom. We will not be blindly critical of the established press, if the real reason for their timidity is political interference. Instead, we will support and encourage all individuals who believe that the purpose of journalism is to speak truth to power, regardless of their institutional affiliations.
TOC recognizes that in playing the media critic, we need to impart all our writers with an awareness of the ethical standards and tools of journalism. We too will be held to account if we fall short, and rightly so.
We believe that credibility and quality are key to TOC’s future. In light of this, we are embarking on a process of honing our writers’ skills through intra-institutional experience sharing and regular meet-ups.
At the same time, we maintain an open-door policy for articles and contributions, and our team will work with you to see that your thoughts are shared with our readers.
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
If you like this article, please consider a small donation to help theonlinecitizen.com stay alive. Please note that we can only accept donations from Singaporeans. Thank you for your assistance.Do you have a flair for writing? Volunteer with us. Email us your full name and contact details to theonlinecitizen@gmail.com
I’ll just like to point out that the Elsewhere on the Net section hasn’t been updated for quote a while. Is it because all TOC pple are writing their own articles and haven’t been reading others? or that there hasn’t been anything worthwhile written elsewhere?
Hi lobo,
It’s a technical problem we’re having. Also, we’re in the process of revamping our site. It might take a while to sort out.
My thought on the objectives :
1. Ok
2. Not with the present government
3. Partially achieveable- due to situation with the MSM
…we will support and encourage all individuals who believe that the purpose of journalism is to speak truth to power, regardless of their institutional affiliations.
TOC has been around for quite a while and has been featured from time to time when the government-controlled media wanted to make a point or two. This has given TOC some level of ‘credibility’ and perhaps because of this, it has seen an increased in effort by its team to further its cause of media-freedom, or at least, to be the provider of an alternative voice, the people’s voice.
Sadly, this remains nothing more than a dream. It cannot be the voice of the people without allowing views that differ from its stated objectives and goals, which in itself is a vain attempt to try and get the MSM to play on a level playing field. This is wishful thinking that comes with its (TOC) own misperception that it is already a credible voice for the people.
TOC recognizes that in playing the media critic, we need to impart all our writers with an awareness of the ethical standards and tools of journalism. We too will be held to account if we fall short, and rightly so
What is ‘…the ethical standards and tools of journalism’? Herein lies the crux of the problem. Who sets the standards? What does ‘tools’ refers to? What is ‘ethics’ when views are moderated out of view?
This will remain a ‘joke’ piece as long as TOC does not find it in itself to really allow the voice of the people, and I mean the ordinary people, not TOC writers, to shine through.
On the whole, having objectives is good, an excellent move even. Now, it remains to be seen, whether the more extreme views has a place here in TOC.
TOC has become more of a ‘family’ blog in recent times. The voice of those within the ‘family’ carries more weight than others.
gemami,
“On the whole, having objectives is good, an excellent move even. Now, it remains to be seen, whether the more extreme views has a place here in TOC.”
Perhaps you would like to explain what you mean by “the more extreme views”? I am not sure what you mean.
“This is wishful thinking that comes with its (TOC) own misperception that it is already a credible voice for the people.”
You are mistaken. TOC has never made any such claims.
“It cannot be the voice of the people without allowing views that differ from its stated objectives and goals”
Again, you are mistaken. TOC’s range of writers are diverse and as such, their views differ and are allowed to be published – subject to certain conditions. Also, commenters’ views are diverse and are also allowed to be published – subject to certain conditions.
Please go through some of the comments on TOC. They include criticisms as well as praises – including this comment of yours.
“TOC has been around for quite a while and has been featured from time to time when the government-controlled media wanted to make a point or two.
I am not sure what you mean by the above statement.
“This has given TOC some level of ‘credibility’ “
I am not sure how being mentioned by the msm gives us “credibility” in the eyes of netizens. Perhaps you could explain?
Thanks.
gemami,
Let me add that TOC welcomes and invites all Singaporeans to contribute to the discourse on this site. Indeed, we welcome you to contribute as well – whether as comments or articles.
You are welcome to write for us too.
Good guiding priciples and objectives. Hope u can achieve it in such a difficult environment as Singapore where the one ticky party dominated everything.
I think we should take away the precious positives where we can, insofar as Singapore is concerned. Think about it; at least now we have a few places online where we can discuss (mostly) without fear or favour when a decade ago we had none.
I think TOC has the right to define its space and that we should respect and appreciate its definition. We may feel that it could be better-run for various reasons but let us not deny the rightful praise it deserves.
The best of luck to the TOC team!
TOC keep up the good work! I think your articles are fair and balanced.
The only change i’ve noticed is this new holier-than-thou attitude that is creeping into the swelling heads of your writers.
The MSM made TOC what it is today, and before you can say opp-ress-ion, the MSM will destroy your credibility when its time to do so.
It is well known to followers of TOC that extreme views are very often slapped with the label ‘out of context’ to the topic of discussion, and disallowed. This is especially so when discourses get heated and commentators may need to sidetrack here or there to make their points. Taking the government to task using direct and blunt languages are also disallowed (cannot quote examples, for they are moderated out of print).
TOC’s focus has shifted to those of its writers. This is the most telling deviation from what made TOC successful in the first place – the commentators and participants.
Of late, its writers are the focal point. Do you think the government would listen if you can write a beautiful article without comments from Netizens? It is the Netizen’s comments that stir the government into action. The articles (diverse or otherwise) mean nothing to them if they are not able to attract active participation.
About ‘credibility’ and ‘misperception’, this is what Zheng Xi wrote above:
“We are also working to develop a team of specialist commentators to write on questions of accountability relating to public finances and government policies”.
Like I said, TOC thinks it can get the government to account for these by simply writing an article or two. The government will only make the effort to account when there is participation from Netizens. It is the comments from Netizens that the government will account to, not the articles, although they have their parts to play in leading the course of discussions.
Believe me, my hope is to see TOC grow into a force to be reckon with, However, I will always maintain that this can only be possible with the participation of Netizens. This aspect has to have more consideration given to it.
“To make our government accountable, transparent and representative ”
In short, this is not possible if the voice of the people remain at the mercy of any controlling body.
I really hate to see that the fair name that TOC has built for itself is now being slammed by Netizens elsewhere in Blogosphere. This saddens me the most.
gemami,
“It is well known to followers of TOC that extreme views are very often slapped with the label ‘out of context’ to the topic of discussion, and disallowed.”
Again, I am not sure what you mean by “extreme views”. Again, I ask that you explain it so we know what we’re talking about. As far as moderation is concerned, we have made it quite clear. And yes, views which are personal attacks, or deviate from the issue, are moderated. And we have explained why this is so.
As for your point about our shift to our writers, you are partly correct. our view is that without the writers, there won’t be any articles or reports. And yes, we are focusing on helping them improve on their writings and also in recruiting more writers. This is because as TOC expands, we will need them. It is the same for any other blogs which aspire to be so.
However, having said that, it does not mean we have lessen our appreciation for the comments posted on our site. Indeed, you are right, the comments are crucial to the success of any sites.
It is with this in mind that we hope the comments section will allow sensible and civil discourse – thus, our moderation policy.
To be sure, we are not the only site which moderates comments. Some require commenters to register before being allowed to post, for example. TOC does not have such requirement.
Only one commenter has been banned so far. This is because he has challenged us by saying that unless his comments are all allowed in full – including some which verge on the seditious – he will go around forums and well, badmouth us. And indeed, he has done this and have done so by telling lies about us.
Our stance is that we allow readers to decide for themselves.
As for others doing the same, telling lies, we know about them. But again, we have previously clarified those points and we do not see any need to further clarify them as those who regurgitate these lies already know about our clarification.
Gemami, I appreciate your views and will keep them in mind. However, I also ask that you understand our position.
I would like to extend an invitation to you to come meet up with us and see how we work, the people behind it and the effort needed to make TOC tick.
We are, as you, just a group of ordinary Singaporeans hoping to do our best for Singapore.
11) gemami on April 6th, 2009 11.19 am
Of late, its writers are the focal point. Do you think the government would listen if you can write a beautiful article without comments from Netizens? It is the Netizen’s comments that stir the government into action.
I fully agree that it is the Netizen’s comments that stir the government into action.
The question is that why you think TOC will fall into a “beautiful article without comments from Netizens” situation?
i agree with germami!!
TOC, we ordinary folks are handicapped right now. it is high time that we voice our grievances which forbid or hold us for the last 40 years. allow the lesser mortal openly say their views or thoughts more openly be it good writer, intellectual or common folk like me.
in this case, you will see more coming here.
thanks.
What’s all this hooha over moderation? Moderation is practiced by many bloggers and websites. Mr Wang moderates comments, Yawningbread, sgdaily, wayangparty heck, even the great fighters of freedom of speech the SDP also moderate comment. Why u dun go there kao peh?
Gemami, you ho seh boh? Go round the internet and see. Even cnn, bbc, guardian, new york times, everyone moderate comments. I think you got the wrong idea about freedom of speech. What this freedom means is that you, the individual, is free to set up a blog or website and post whatever you want whether it is about your dog, your pain in the a**, your house or your fascination with your toe nails.
What it DOES NOT MEAN is that you can go to other people’s blog and DEMAND to have this same freedom. You mean what? You let people into your house and let them piss all over it?
TOC so far is fair to moderate the comments. I never have my comments moderated. Now, you go ask why??? You say TOC should allow EXTREME views? You sure? Why don’t you go start a blog and we all go there and post EXTREME views? You have the freedom to go start a blog and post all the EXTREME views you want also. You go do it and we all see whether you also moderate comments or not lah.
We all hide behind keyboard. At least TOC writers all use real names. For that alone, you should be grateful. Or else, go start your own blog lah. The internet is free what.
To gemami on April 6th, 2009 10.13 am
your comments sounds like from the PAP folks. have you been brain-washed by them?
if you would allow, i can de-programme you.
“Media freedom”
On this topic, I wish to see the Get Real! reporting.
Suggestions:
1. Given the world standing of 147th ranking position for press freedom,
I like to hear what local MSM media professional have to say about this.
Now, I wonder what does it say about media freeom, if any, if these professionals could not comment on this media Freedom.
Eg. invite Media professionals like Melvin Yong / Melissa Hyak / Debra Soon / Balji to comment bravely about singapore’s Media Freedom with reference to the Ranking, which I am glad to say is above Iraq, Burma and North Korea.
The reason is to give them a benefit of doubt. A chance to exprain clearly. To Rebut the ranking which since 2003 has ranked singapore in a way that does not make singaporeans feel proud about it. I think in 2002 or earlier there was no ranking to even include singapore. Correct me if wrong. I base on the website of ranking.
I suspect that there is a lot of Media freedom in terms of poltics. So, I hope they could comment in a TOC video or article. Afterall, if they disagree with the ranking, they should have good reasons. I am not good with words. So, these professional need to speak up for singapore. But are they at liberty to comment? I hope so. How would i know as I am not them?
I think we all know TOC gets involve in much more than just moderating rowdy post. In many cases, it just censors or delete inorder to give one side an unfair advantage over the other. If you dont believe me go and ask the brotherhood rep that used to be stationed here. He gave this site a 1 chilli out of 5 and you can even see the ranking in all the major gaming hubs. Its posted there along with every single comment that was deleted from TOC and I dont see anything of them as racist, subversive or even bent on trouble. They were just very clever comments that made the other side look slightly short. How do you explain that. Gemani is party right, but more than not to be too right.
Hi TOC,
Keep up the good work!
tai tai,
I think your assertion is ridiculous. TOC does not spend time – even if we have the time to – to censor comments in order to give a slant. I think we are too busy to do that.
As for the comments themselves, they may not be “racist, subversive or even bent on trouble” but they may be irrelevant to the issue raised in the articles – as some comments were. They deviated from the issue and brought up unrelated issues. That’s why they were disallowed.
So, without the context of the entire exchange, claiming that the comments are not “racist, subversive or even bent on trouble” and saying that they should thus be allowed is skewed.
By the way, taitai, if we were doing what you claimed, we would not have allowed yours or gemami’s comments to be published.
I think most commenters can attest to the fact that most of the time, they can post freely.
You guys together with writers of the somewhat no hold bares contents “elsewhere on the net ” are making history.
In the last 40 years it has been taboo. taboo and more taboo, then the netizens came along and along also came the hilarious Mr Brown – remember his account of the self perceived hairy experience with meesiam maihum when it seemed that he had cross swords….
Lesser souls would not be doing what you guys are continuing to do.
Our older generation are fading out – we were too involved with bread and butter issues and sacrificed much to bring up a new generation. We may even have to spend our last days in JB or Batam.
Brova, keep it up guys.
I think The Online Citizen should just blog instead of coming up with this sort of back slapping articles every two weeks – I have no comment on the content.
Eventually what we all say here is sterile; trust me water always finds its level.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
I find this raging debate over TOC’s moderation highly unnecessary. Why debate over how much apple filling an apple pie has, when there are better things to talk about, and bigger battles to fight?
Every blog and website has their own moderation policy, and it should be up us to decide our moderation policy. I don’t think the majority of readers find TOC to be unreasonable, and frankly speaking I don’t give a damn whether a particular clause or condition should stand or not. As long as we’re about 80-90% reasonable, I’m fine with it.
Even at TOC, the editors do not moderate the comments 24/7, and as Andrew said, we have better things to do. Even for me, I glance at the comments occasionally, and comment only when I have to.
Bloggers, with the limited resources that they have, should not be so bothered with such minuscule battles — there are better things to debate about. And having to fight against the behemoth that is the MSM, why waste time over petty fights?
tai tai,
I don’t have so good an impression of the brotherhood guy anyway, so I don’t see a problem. lol
I beg to differ that his posts were ‘very clever comments that made the other side look slightly short.
————————
On the ‘direction’ of TOC, I would like to see more people stick with one nick. I don’t really care about your real identity in real life, I only wish for a consistent personality online. At present, people sometimes just use any nick that they feel like having, or using the nick as a subject header instead.
This result in I don’t know who is saying what. And when that happens, posts becomes valueless. Person A uses nick A to post a view and then uses other nicks X, Y and Z to support his/her first post. What kind of value does the post by nick X, Y and Z have? Who knows if tai tai is actually the brotherhood person? He/she may or may not be … nobody knows.
I would like TOC to impose some kind of difficulty in registering multiple nicks so as to cut down on this … happening. THEN we can know who (the online unique persona) we are talking to, and discussions have more value; and people supporting certain views are indeed OTHER people who support these views.
lobo,
That might require commenters to register before they can post. Would you find this acceptable?
I think we can no longer deny that the brotherhood part of the PAP Internet Brigade.
TOC,
You want examples of extreme views? How can I show you examples when those I had the privileged of coming across (because I was at one time hooked onto the blog-page every second of the day) were taken off just as quickly as they were posted?
I would have given you examples of my own unpublished comments which were not allowed to see the light of day after I posted them. Unfortunately, I threw all my archived comments away because I thought I never wanted to return here.
Time do heal some wounds and I decided to take a peek to see how TOC has been doing these past months. I am saddened by the clear fact that readership has declined and participation has also dwindled to less that 40 comments for some of its more recent posts. It used to be 40 comments in an hour as pointed out in one of your HLP talks.
This could only mean one or two things. Firstly, that comments were moderated out of view, or, that the participants are so pissed off that they decided not to participate in the discussions. This does not augur well for TOC even as it strives to improve itself.
I can understand that writing articles is not a simple task, what with the research that goes into them. To have your writers spending so much time to write them and then receiving those few comments is really. really sad. And what kind of comments are you getting?
“Yah, I agree”.
“It’s true, the writer is right”.
“A nicely written piece”. etc. etc.
Are these the types of comments you are looking for?
I would like to remind readers that the ‘Lesser Mortal’ comment was first picked out by me. (Go check it out if you have time). And this is the way with me. If I am not welcome to make such comments than I will gladly and graciously leave. No hard feelings.
Another thing I noticed. There are those who use TOC for their personal gains, to promote and publicize themselves or their wares. TOC ought to spend more time to recognize these and throw them out. Selling books and promoting their websites are clear examples. TOC has been taken in by these very cunning and intelligent agents who disguise themselves with a comment or two against the policies of the government every now and then. This gives the impression that we are fighting the same battle and therefore win our trusts, and therefore get support for what they are selling us.
Whatever the reasons are, I am saddened because if you had read my postings when I first stumbled upon TOC, you would have realized my passion and my dream for TOC, that it becomes a force to be reckon with, to counter the stunted reports of the MSM.
Of late, as I have mentioned many times, and I am being as constructive as I can, although sometimes being over-the-top with the manner of my commenting, I do see TOC shifting toward the middle ground, to appease the mainstream, or at least, not to offend. This stance is making me sick! If the establishment has done wrong and if there is a need to proclaim this wrong doing in no uncertain terms, then it has to be so, no sugar coating please.
I am sorry, I speak my mind as it is, no sugar-coating here. We have had too much sugar-coating in our lives already. Some may not agree with what I am saying but I stand to be corrected.
I also understand that it is right for TOC to lay down its own rules and regulations and while acknowledging this right, I must point out that I too have the right to comment on them. If TOC does not want comments and feedback, then say so, or close the thread for comments.
Furthermore, you have made this into a ‘moderation’ issue. I am not saying there should be NO moderation and I have never said this anywhere in the past. I am questioning the mode of moderation, as always (sigh!)..
Look at the comments that comes out from this article. They are by themselves a clear example of how your moderation policy has failed you. Take a look see at tai tai‘s comments in post 18 and how TOC brushes off her comments as ridiculous.
She took the trouble to tell you what she is seeing and hearing around cyberspace and you call her ridiculous. Although her post remains in public view, it does tells us a whole lot. What else are ridiculous in TOC’s eyes? This IS the question I am asking?
And Terrence, I do not agree with you that this is a petty fight. You cannot go into battle without preparing your army well in advance. Your thinking reveals the truth that you think the fight is between YOUR group of TOC people and your targeted enemy. You are dead wrong. TOC’s army is the foot soldiers that are all of us who have been giving you and TOC our support. To hear that you do not give a damn to what you are hearing is the most saddest comment that has come out of TOC.
So gemami, when u going to start your blog and let us post EXTREME comments? Talk so much. NATO.
Hi Anonymous Coward,
I can only envy you for not ever having one of your comments moderated. You are one of the very lucky ones. Just pray your luck don’t run out on you.
Well, TOC, does his comments contribute in any way to the article? See?
Anyway, this will be my final post. I wish TOC well and I will now return to take care of my own private blog.
Gemami,
I appreciate your views and comments. I will discuss them with the editors. We are working on a series of stories which will focus on the less well-off. I do agree with you that we have been off-track for the past week or so. So, we’re going to do something about it.
I am glad to hear that you do not think the issue is our moderation policy per se but how it is practised. Truth be told, we’ve had comments (not just here on TOC) but also through private communications. And as I said before, it is a balance we have to strike. Feedback have been negative and positive. But truth be told again, most of the feedback have been positive about our moderation practice. Still, I take your views seriously and will see if we can improve.
TOC has always been and will always be only as good as the people who’re willing to step forth and contribute. And in this respect, I extend an invitation to you to come contribute to TOC as a writer and allow your views to be highlighted and debated.
By the way, I sent an email to you previously but did not receive a respond.
Thanks.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
@singaporedaddy :
So did you really give a ranking for this site (5 chilli system!) and post it on all the major gaming hubs as alleged by the poster Taitai?
Appreciate if someone could englighten me what does “MSM” stand for.
Thanks so much.
Hi everyone, pls cool down.
This blog belongs to TOC, thus it has the right to set the rules and moderate the comments as they see fit. On the other hand, we are free to come here and post comments without initial moderation. Kudos to them. Many reputable and popular sites do some kind of moderation and require registration.
i enjoy reading the featured articles as well as the comments posted by so many others. i may or may not agree with some of the postings but it is interesting to know what others are thinking. As i read, i learn.
Hi gemani,
i thought i’ve “lost” you for a while. I like reading your comments. Very direct, well written and not inflammatorial. At one point i was looking out just for your comments before even reading the articles! Pls come back.
i guess TOC started out “leftist” (anyway, by SG standared, it’s very tame already). As they grew in popularity, especially after being mention in the MSM, i can detect they are taking a more cautious, maybe “to-the-left-centrist” approach to their postings. Afterall it is their blog. And readers will decide whether we like that or not. The visitor site count will tell over time. And they will have to choose to remain popular or remain “true to themselves”.
In SG, we don’t have the rolling stones, or the NYTimes, or the Slate to bring balance to the GOP conservative power elite. What we have now is TOC and the other various small little individual blogs to “counter balance” the MSM. This is all we have. We must cherish and nurture and support and encourage.
To be fair, i do see some “leftist” reporting coming from MSM, only when times called for such “stories”, but otherwise they are strictly on the other side. TOC and other “small blogs” carry the banner and serve to amplify the voices of ordinary citizens whom otherwise will not have a platform.
Go where your heart is.
For simplicity sake, i use left, centre and right labels to bring some points across. Knowing real life is not that straight forward. A lot of wayang kulit involved.
I am just reporting it the way I see it. TOC claims that it has a sound moderation policy. I have evidence to prove that it doesn’t as I have seen mirror copies of deleted comments which have been posted here by one Singaporedaddy aka Liaison officer of the brotherhood. In all his entries, there was nothing out of point or even tangential. Neither did it not relate to the posted content. I can only assume one reason why his comments were deleted in such a manner was to give the other side an unfair advantage or by weighting the playing field in their favor, so that they can put their point across without the resistance of a counter point. I cannot think of any other reason. If you dont believe, I can even link those sites here. And give you all some instances of post that were deleted here and maybe the readers can judge for themselves whether I am unfair to TOC. I dont see why people have to attack me personally just because I hold a different view from them here. I too was very shock when I realized TOC only managed to get one chilli out of five, that was why I decided to read up more on the matter and I am just sharing with all of you what I have gathered. I dont see why I should be attacked personally for my POV. If I have no basis to say all these thing, I will gladly apologise, but as I said, I have proof.
I really dont even see how this should even involve me. I am just someone who read some writings posted in a wall and I am reporting it here. If you really want to take issue with the substance of what I have shared here. Then please take it up with the Liaison. Better still go ask the editorial team of TOC to go and accuse the brotherhood of making up lies and spreading disinformation. I am not trying to start a fight between TOC and the brotherhood, but I really dont see why I should be flamed for just sharing the truth here. Go on, I dare you all to call Singaporedadi a liar and a fibber. What has this even got to do with me?
26) theonlinecitizen on April 6th, 2009 11.23 pm
lobo,
That might require commenters to register before they can post. Would you find this acceptable?
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I do find it acceptable. Most forums also require it and they seem to have no issues with it. Most times, the only ‘unique’ identifier is one’s email, and nothing as personal as ID number, real name, etc.
There are exceptions, e.g ST Forum has so many required fields. But still, there are many users… though there are still some with multiple nicks. But I do feel that as a result of registration, there are less multiple nick users than it would have.
33) fairplay on April 7th, 2009 9.51 am
Appreciate if someone could englighten me what does “MSM” stand for.
Thanks so much.
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MSM = main stream media
taitai,
You said you have proof. You didn’t prove you have proof. Come on, why is the Brotherhood / PAP Internet Brigade doing this kind of thing here?
@lobo76
Thanks for enlightening
fairplay
@taitai
I enjoy reading your contribution. Please share with us your proof.
Regards
fairplay
Hi radlife66,
I feel you deserve a response from me for the kind words you wrote. I thank you for thinking so highly of my postings. I really appreciate the vote of confidence.
Hi Andrew,
I thank you for the assurance that you will discuss my views and comments with your team of editors. There have been much said about moderation and I do not want to re-visit that area. The final decision is yours to make. I will make the effort to at least respect this.
As for your invite, I thank you too, and I must add that I am deeply honoured.
However, I will have to decline (at least for the time being). There was a time when I was ready to step forward but somehow certain events just got played out differently and I came to the conclusion that perhaps my role would be better if I remain with the others on the ground. This way, my views and comments will always be from this side of the fence.
For the past year, I have been championing the LEAN concept of management in my place of work. Adopting a kaizen culture that focuses on creating value from the bottom up. This is how I will perceive my role. Well, that is if I still choose to stick around here.
Some scars are harder to heal but I have learned and taken some good advices along the way, one of which is to stay away when things are too hot to handle. I am being honest and honesty tells me that I want what’s best for TOC and for Singaporeans.
A note of advice for taitai, once you post a comment, your views become your own, even if you are just reporting from elsewhere. They are not ridiculous, as TOC claimed, and I too thank you for giving us some food for thought with your comments.
Smallvice, you have been around for some time now and the question you asked, I am sure you already know the answer from past exchanges. No need to reopen this can.
smallvice585 on April 7th, 2009 12.55 pm,
How many people do you think believe you? You seem to be under a delusion of will if you believe life can really be so simple, you state an opinion and somehow it magically becomes fact?
I will have you know we have a very reliable and long term working relationship with most netizens in the internet – they know what we stand for and we are not afraid to speak our mind on certain issues without fear or favor / that may or may not include supporting the govt sometimes, if they are right.
This is not the first time you have made such spurious and unsubstantiated statements here concerning us. So that speaks volume – can you provide me with proof?
Yes, that’s your cue to disappear under a stone – need I say more – everything is as it should be
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“26) theonlinecitizen on April 6th, 2009 11.23 pm
lobo,
That might require commenters to register before they can post. Would you find this acceptable?”
What are you waiting for then? Carry on! We have no comment. But you need to present that question to the online citizen and ask them why arent they buying into your recommendation Lobo? Perhaps you lack the requisite quality of credibility?
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35) taitai on April 7th, 2009 11.41 am
1 chilli out of 5? Yes, that is true. We were asked a studied opinion by certain parties who wished to advertise their gaming wares online in SG sometime back ago in January – we gave our considered opinion on the topic complete with supporting evidentiary documentation – I have no further comment.
Our position with regards to the online citizen has NOT altered – we do NOT believe the online citizen has a coherent moderation policy – if they really did, then it would NOT be necessary in our opinion to keep on generating these type of post every 2 weeks – you need to ask yourself why does the obvious even require repeating so often? Do you wake up every morning and proclaim that the sun has risen? So wonder no more.
Thank you
SD (Internet liaison officer of the brotherhood)
“36) taitai on April 7th, 2009 12.08 pm I really dont even see how this should even involve me. I am just someone who read some writings posted in a wall and I am reporting it here. If you really want to take issue with the substance of what I have shared here. Then please take it up with the Liaison. Better still go ask the editorial team of TOC to go and accuse the brotherhood of making up lies and spreading disinformation. I am not trying to start a fight between TOC and the brotherhood, but I really dont see why I should be flamed for just sharing the truth here. Go on, I dare you all to call Singaporedadi a liar and a fibber. What has this even got to do with me?”
I understand Tai Tai. Only understand this. My mission here is NOT to fight with the online citizen, but rather to explore common ground to build on inorder to move forward constructively.
We do NOT want to escalate this matter further. We would prefer to leave the matter as it is and move on to strive towards common ground.
So I have NO intention of reopening old wounds here – but let me be very clear; IF the online citizen ( it has to be them ONLY) accuses me of making up stories here – then I will gladly produce the proof and we will foreclose on this matter to the fullest extent.
Short of that, I would prefer it if we just leave this matter to one side and work towards a better future – as I said, I dont see the mileage in reopening old wounds – I am in the solutions business not the finger pointing industry.
SD
Bravo! to you SD, and I must make it clear to all readers that this is not the first time you have taken a step back, just so that we can get on with the bigger tasks at hand.
Understand this! We are very reasonable people – if we are not reasonable; so many people will not want to collaborate with us. That is the way of the world. Only understand this, the online citizen is a blog, nothing more or less – it is staffed by amateurs; and this is also true of the brotherhood – the online citizen is NOT the herald tribune or the Harvard business review and it should NOT try to pretend to be so; if it makes a mistake, then my advise is go back to the drawing board, make the necessary adjustments and try again and we wish you the very best – we will give you or any other site plenty of lattitude and widget space – this is NOT a sudden death game – besides that ishow most people learn and improve – but please don’t come here and make accusations or try to embellish the factual account to assert the case that I may be making up stories just to lend credence to my case; as I said, if need be, we will foreclose on the truth to the fullest extent ONLY understand this after that we cannot be held responsible for how most people will view the online citizen. If it comes to that, it could be said we were pushed to war.
Take my advice. We come in the name of peace. Besides we have a bigger plan here than to waste time on sand box politics. We cannot move forward, if we all keep looking at the rear mirror – take my advice.
SD
singaporedaddy (#43),
“How many people do you think believe you? You seem to be under a delusion of will if you believe life can really be so simple, you state an opinion and somehow it magically becomes fact?”
The point I really want to make here is that the abovementioned point is just as applicable on you, gemami and taitai, just as it is on me. I am glad you managed to see through the rhetoric that goes on in this meaningless debate and I implore gemami to take a step back too. While you are not in the finger-pointing business, what about the other commentators? If you point a finger at someone, you find 4 fingers of your own hand points back at you…
I have no fight with you smallvice, and I do not have to take a step back. I have said my piece and there is nothing more to add to them. I am done here.
Singaporedaddy,
If you follow the TOC facebook page, you would realise that TOC is working towards being a community newspaper run by citizen journalists. All the points Choo had made in this article actually makes sense if you consider TOC as a community newspaper. TOC is adopting these values to work towards its goal being the community voice for Singaporeans.
Ah the war begins again….
Take care all and keep up the good work Andrew.
Listen to your heart…