can i volunteer as a “lab rat” for that influence test? :P

if homosexuals are taught is there a program to uninstall (the program)? i am keen to experience a life not attracted to both genders.

The learned women of AWARE MUST know that pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex are deplorable to these parents.

They did not tell the parents beforehand that they would be teaching these so-called values to the children.

I have drawn my conclusion from this. So have thousands of enraged parents.

Just wondering, if your children can be so easily influenced to become gay by a less than 1 min talk on “homosexuality being neutral” then i think your children are not very bright afterall, apart from the fact that they cannot tell apart the meaning of “neutral” , “positive” and “negative” most certainly.

Wah..their physics results will be a nightmare if they cannot tell the positive electrode from negative electrode and grounding (or the earth point, which incidentally, means neutral).

Therefore my hypothesis is … Instead of lobbying to throw the CSE course out of the window, spending more time tutoring your kids to score well in O/A/University exams will be more constructive than worrying about them becoming gay yeah?

You will have more bragging rights among your friends at least if your kids perform well in exams.

As for pre-marital sex and abortion issues, none of my friends who are parents actually proactively teach their kids that pre-marital sex is “neutral” and in fact they very clearly explained and nagged everyday that pre-marital sex is not acceptable.

Taking that in consideration, it may shocked U that many parents friends of mine during our gathering, complained that their kids have so many bfs/gfs and some even suspect their kids had abortions! Which also left my parenting friends scratching their heads….how come their kids know which clinic offering such services when they themselves don’t know and excluded it from their parenting all this while?

Don’t you think that controversial information (which are factual and relevant to our society currently) imparted by teachers to the kids are better than the kids digging unregulated information online or from their friends?

p/s: i’m not a parent yet. :)

morality IS relative.

is your wife following 6 steps behind you and wearing a burqa? in some ASIAN countries, that would make her IMMORAL . do you drink alchohol? that is immoral in other ASIAN countries.

Likewise, it is MY pregorative to teach my sons to treasure sexual activity as a celebration of love between a man and woman.

It is NOT AWARE’s right to teach young girls it is ok to engage in pre-marital sex, anal sex and homosexuality WITHOUT telling the parents.

If you think that it is so important to tell your children that it is ok to engage in pre-marital sex and to love people of the same sex, won’t you feel angry if I tell your children that is better to treasure sex as to be practised only between a married man and woman, without telling you?

anal sex between two consensual loving hetrosexual couples is just part and parcel of normal sex. you can go search amazon for it.

likewise, gays are entitled to their own private life (accordingly to wks), so what they do behind closed doors are their own business.

pre marital sex, given that adults in singapore are trending towards marriage at 30 and above, are you being ridiculous? are you saying someone at age 21 who can die for his country cannot and should not have sex?

homosexuality exists. everywhere. if you’re not homosexual in the first place, you’re not even going to be turned on by hard core gay porn. so why would you be concerned? that you rather not find out your son is gay and let him lie to you till your death bed? that he cheats an innocent girl into a false loveless marriage to sire you a grandchild?

you can read this link on topic 125 where I posted a whole bunch of mainstream scientific journals listing just the tip of the iceberg on the possible genetic origins of homosexuality.
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/the-suspension-of-reason/

remember, if you think your child can be influenced into becoming a homosexual, that means YOU THINK YOU YOURSELF CAN BE INFLUENCED.

Why did AWARE not let the parents know beforehand that they are telling their kids that pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex can be, as they put it, ‘neutral’?

Thanks for the advice, my sons and my friends’ chidren will not attend any talks given by AWARE.

your values are DEPLORABLE TO ME as well. as can be seen by the earlier letter i posted in topic 88, not all parents think like you. they prefer their kids know about the real world. gays are born, not made. unless you yourself think you can have your sexuality somehow converted through a CSE lesson. give your kids some credit, they are probably smarter than you.

There are values within the teaching material that AWARE knows would be repugnant to the parents of the 13 year old kids that AWARE has conducted the workshops to.

The learned women of AWARE MUST know that pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex are deplorable to these parents.

They did not tell the parents beforehand that they would be teaching these so-called values to the children.

It is very easy, for anybody to pass out what they intend to teach.

I am very well qualified to teach values to my children, thank you. I am enraged that AWARE presumes that it can teach better than me, especially when it is teaching values deplorable to me.

does Aware have the e-mail, landline or mobile numbers of all the parents? can the schools just give such personal information out?

go ahead with your Aware bashing. you are an example why parents may not be ideal person/s to teach such sensitive topic. you are enraged (your own words)….

this is my last reply to you, Mr John Lee.

AWARE is NOT giving information and facts. It is teaching values, repugnant values.

I am a father of two. I will not allow an organization to tell my sons that these values are ‘normal’. Thousands of parents have also made their feelings known loud and clear and MOE has responded.

I am raising the point that many has not raised, AWARE knows that these so-called values would anger parents. It DID NOT tell the parents beforehand. Why?

There are values within the teaching material that AWARE knows would be repugnant to the parents of the 13 year old kids that AWARE has conducted the workshops to.

The learned women of AWARE MUST know that pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex are deplorable to these parents.

They did not tell the parents beforehand that they would be teaching these so-called values to the children.

I have drawn my conclusion from this. So have thousands of enraged parents.

i am not fudging MOE’s teaching materials with Aware’s. but there are many implications of full disclosure of such materials. besides, where does this right rests on, which authority?

if Aware or other 3rd party program vendor were to ask all (if that’s what you mean) parents just for approval, there will not be any CSE. since it cannot appeal to all parents. by employing 3rd party vendors for such a touchy issue MOE has effectively sidestepped any blame if there is an issue with the program.

////Is MOE at fault for allowing AWARE to slip in? They are tightening their vetting process now. And AWARE has lost credibility with many people now.////

what would your answer to that question above be? did it or not?

if emotion is a tool, it has many parents upset to the point some cannot reason with a level head. there are enough of such “concerned” parents who sing the same tune as the accuser, Dr Thio & co. the upset is such a driving force, that at the click of a “switch” parents petitioned to MOE on the CSE. how can you still say emotions can be used correctly?

why not ask MOE why it decided to come up with this program less than 4 years back? why not ask MOE the aims, to go back to find out the reason for such programs to be introduced?

knowledge free from values can be a useful tool (to make informed dicisions) to deter rash behaviour & to serve as a counterweight to the combined forces peer pressure, MSM, & new media on social ills about sexuality.

////is AWARE cognizant that the values being taught in its CSE are repugnant to the parents, of all religions and beliefs?////

my personal opinion: 1 can learn all the worldly values, but does not put them into practice. what use of it? can any parents guarantee their child/ren practice them without giving in to temptation? with regards to matters of sexuality that comes with health related implications, can teaching values alone deter rash behaviour? btw, just because parents find pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex deplorable, does not mean it does not exist (just like NSmen dropping dead like flies, does not mean they really are weaklings). the world have evolved, so have dangers. is ignorance, bliss?

if this anti-Aware stance continues, i find it very difficult to continue a meaningful dialogue.

Jaw

Well, since AWARE cannot know all the values of parents, all the more it should ask the parents beforehand. As for some of the values, it takes no more than a thought to fathom that many parents find values like pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex deplorable.

Is MOE at fault for allowing AWARE to slip in? They are tightening their vetting process now. And AWARE has lost credibility with many people now.

Obviously you cannot speak for AWARE for a hypothetical question aimed to make people like you think a bit more. Don’t dodge the answer, my friend.

Emotions can be used correctly, especially when the emotions involve the love of parents for their children, something this whole sorry affair has sparked off.

if CSE Instructor Guide can be published openly, might as well get MOE to publish all teaching materials openly. just because there are objectional values (itself very subjective) being taught, does it warrant a program to be out in the open? for all we know some may just infringe intellectual copyright laws for their own gains.

////You are right, the parents trusted too much. They are rising up now. ////

this i agree, even after high profiled NKF saga, Ren Ci fiasco & now Aware saga (just to name a few), S’poreans by & large still are rather complacent. its a social issue, not just about parents.

how can Aware know all parents’ values which its is that diverse? MOE (more specifically schools that engaged Aware’s program) already replied it comply to our social norms. keke, i know even social norms are not caste in stone, norms evolve with time, eg, now got Desperate Housewives on Ch 5.

form another thread i quote, ////The schools that engaged AWARE found that the content and messages of the sessions conducted were appropriate for their students and adhered to guidelines to respect the values of different religious groups.////

////Don’t dodge the issue, answer the question, is AWARE cognizant that the values being taught in its CSE are repugnant to the parents, of all religions and beliefs?////

i am not Aware’s Exco or member, how to answer on their behalf? sorry if i gave that impression. i just think parents are not being fair if they “suddenly” voice their unhappiness over the CSE after it being run over a year. but i do think the anger is misplaced. why not questions the school’s decision?

if parents let their emotions get into their heads, how would their child even approach such a sensitive topic? parents who petitioned to MOE, the numbers speak for themselves.