thanks for pointing it out. my knowledge of GLBTs is very limited, but i certainly believe they should not be discriminated.

“But we reduce homosexual relationships to “lust” and “anal sex”.” — this is an unfortunate stereotype. most supposedly conservative people just refuse to acknowledge that it often is more than lust and *insert* sex in any serious relationships between two people, regardless of the gender.

I know of many same sex couples that have been together for years and years. And i kn of opp sex married couple that divorce within a yr of marriage.

How relationship turns out really depends on the individual and not the orientation.

______________________________________________________

You’ve made an important point which needs to be emphasized over and over again.

Here is a good instance of heterosexist thinking.

We often instinctively “santify” and beautify heterosexual relationships, portraying them in terms of love, sacrifice, fidelity, romance, even “spirituality” and “godliness”.

But we reduce homosexual relationships to “lust” and “anal sex”.

We have to recognize that all carnal relationships have sex as a significant component, but there are also other dimensions (e.g. the emotional, affective, even “spiritual” aspects) as well.

Multi-dimensionality applies to both heterosexual as well as homosexual relationships.

It may shock some of us to know that gays and lesbians do fall madly, helplessly and deeply in love like the rest of mankind.

Their stories of love in the midst of social resistance and hardship – “against all odds” – are no less touching than ours, perhaps even more so, since “forbidden” love especially those with an element of “tragic” are often the most inspiring in classic love stories, such as Romeo and Juliet, and in Brokeback Mountain.

————————————————————————————————–

This kind of scenario is possible only with bisexuals, i.e. people who have innate potential to respond to both homo-erotic and hetero-erotic stimuli.

Thanks for your well wishes and your candid response. I had to admit that I am not as well read as you are. When I decided to participate in any public discourse regardless of issues, I try to focus on the views expressed with as much rational thinking as my tiring senile brain can accommodate. I am also please to say that with your response, you have not lost a bid of wisdom in my eyes.

Yes indeed, “..all marriages are sanctified, it is way beyond just pleasure and satisfaction, happiness and blissfullness are the hall mark of marriages. “, I absolutely agreed with you on this and that faithful pledge to care for each other till death do us part should be upkeep, unfortunately, to some this may change in time. The “funny” thing though, this sanctity also applies to the group of people mentioned in this series of articles (i.e. GLBT group). I say this because of my many categories of friends (just like you are), I do have many friends whom I knew happened to belong to this group and are in very healthy relationship with their partners for decades and other than they are gay couples, it is no difference (to some degree even more loving) than many heterosexual couples that I knew for years. My friend, I shall not take the liberty to further bore you with this.

Anyway, my view points had been made and I only wish to ask fellow citizenry to exercise a little tolerance and be a little more accommodating. In any community group (I do not know whether this is the right definition), there will always be people with different values and personalities. Some are extra-ordinary loud and want to be heard and am not afraid to tell it to the world while others are more mundane (no insults intended). But beneath all that, there are always some good in us humans regardless (at least, I personally would like to view it this way before being accused of speaking on behalf of others).

We only live once and this world is a beautiful place if we only open up and take the trouble to understand each other better, regardless of religious believes, sexual orientation, society status and well being. I do not articulate well with my limited vocab (goosh I really misses school, should have listened to my mom) but I think enough had been said and its time for me to take a haitus.

Patriot sir, I thank you for your patience, understanding and as always, your contributions to this site are always appreciated. My well wishes and warmest regards to you and your family. Cheers!

Sincerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

this is where your ignorance surfaced. i kn of many GLBT couples that support and pull through with one another through thick and thin. It is not just sex.

I know of many same sex couples that have been together for years and years. And i kn of opp sex married couple that divorce within a yr of marriage.

How relationship turns out really depends on the individual and not the orientation.

Yes, u hv been around for 6 decades. But we tend to hang out with ppl of our kind – birds of the feather flock together. I will not profess I kn all. But at least we need to keep and open mind. And learn from one another before we conclude.

This is what many here asked for.

I am aware of the differences. But Choices doesn’t distinguish them, instead subjecting them under the same classification. Sy Rogers, an “ex-transsexual” himself, was instrumental in the starting of Choices programme.

The issue here is not comparing Mr Lung with the others. That is not what I’m aiming to do, because it’s like comparing apples with oranges. Rather, it is highlighting the practice of reparative therapy, and whether it purports to work like it claimed to be.

At no time have I intended to portray Mr Lung as an “ex-gay”. In the article, Mr Lung calls himself an ex-transsexual, and I thought this was clear enough. However, I must apologise if you have been mislead to think otherwise.

Hi Sir, it’s been sometime since we last communicated, wish You are in your best in health and everything.

Youare absolutely right, i am a son, a sibling, a parent, grandparent and an uncle to many. I am brought up with discipline albeit my parents were not educated at all in any school. Underwent military/enforcement trainings in the Discipline Forces and was many years in the service industry. Was in the working world at a young age.

Those that i grow up and work with comprised of people of different upbringings, characters, races, religions and education etc. Since we are on the subject of sexuality, may i just say that like anyone else, i have friends even buddies of various hue and shade. We even teased one another over unusual or special taste of some of us. As such having live almost six decades with different type of people, including talking to those soliciting business at Changi Village and elsewhere, i have always been please of the way we tolerate and live in peace with each other.

Now, suddenly, a small group of people are crying foul over been discriminated. I have posted that even the Government of the Day and no less the Prime Minister himself have came out to declare that activity between members of the same gender are private affairs and no targetted for law enforcement. Before this, Goh Chok Tong had declared that homosexuals are acceptable in Civil Services. After all these relaxation in Laws, i would have thought that tolerant level of both the Authority and the GLBT would have notched up, but alas it was not to be. Instead all tolerance, concession and understanding become more contentious and become a National Issue.

There is a need to understand that for thousands of years and for thousand more to come, the Issue of sexuality will remain and is best left to be dealt with as it has been done in the past. It is very complex as i have posted in comments before if You have read. Sex is link to all marriages and all marriages are sanctified, it is way beyond just pleasure and satisfaction, happiness and blissfullness are the hall mark of marriages. And happiness, blissfullness need fidelity not just of the mind, the body, the physical acts need to act in tandem.

The Chinese saying that when ones’ stomach is filled, vice occupies the mind and vice(sex) is the greatest sin of all evils(Hanyu: Wan erh yin wei shou). I think it is only fair to suggest that reading up on the subject of sexual variation would be the best call that i can made. I shall make this my last post in TOC on the Subject and hope that if i had offended or hurt anyone, please be magnanimous, i ask for your forgiveness.

Yours Sincerely: patriot

You said : “yes when writing the article, I was aware of this difference between transsexuals and homosexuals. However, as I wasn’t able to find another ex-gay, I had to make do with Mr Lung.”

What I’m trying to say is not Mr Lung is not ex-gay, no matter how similar ex-gays and ex-transexuals seem to you. Mr Lung can have his sex change and be a heterosexual woman and be attracted to men all ‘she’ wants, problems solved. ‘She’ can even go on and legally marry a man in Singapore. Transgenderism is recognised by most religions including Muslim clerics in so-called fundamentalist Iran (but homosexuality still carries the death penalty), but that’s another story altogether.

“As for your suggesting of renaming it an “ex-transsexual’s story”, it is not quite accurate as well. Perhaps “LGBT” will be a better term.”

There’s really no such thing as ex-LGBT.

I think what myself and Observer are trying to point out is that at no time should Leslie Lung be presented as an ex-gay, and speak as an ‘authority’ about gays and/or ex-gays by drawing on his personal experiences. There’s a ‘solution’ to his ‘problem’ but none exists for gays.

Ref: Para 3 of your comment.

Ouch!!! This is some mean comments you are posting my friend. It is rare and disappointing for me to see a man regarded as learned (at least in my personal perspective reading your past comments on other societal issues in this site) with compassion and wisdom to equate this controversial subject matter as anomaly issue with thugs, thieves, murderers and what not. What an unfounded sweeping statement you have just made.

Please spare a thought, these people are humans of the same genetic made up as we are and they have parents too like anyone of us. How do you think if parents, siblings or relatives of this group of “ignorant public stigmatized” people read your comments, how hurting can that be? Moreover, I do not think the GLBT community had commission Terence to write this four part series to seek general public acceptance. It is merely the perspective of the Author wanting to instigate viewers’ response on this subject matter and does not represent the views of the GLBT community.

IMHO, regardless of any group, an inclusive matured society should see no barrier or boundaries for people wanting to have equal RIGHTS to live their own life. Don’t you and all concerned citizenry who are trying hard to lobby for public support and government attention for our less fortunate, less well-off, deprived citizenry as well as those who had lost their jobs to FT and what not? In that same yardstick of branding you used, they also deserved to be at their dire state? Or you apply a different standard of measure like those Elitist uses? Which is which now?

Truly my friend, there is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action and the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about. “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”, this is a quote from the very teacher many of us had read about ~ Confucius.

Sincerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

i just wish that all those hardcore conservatives can stop trying to change GLBT, especially those born GLBTs, and those “convert” GLBTs, it is their choice. Don’t force your ideology down others’ throats.

and no, science has NOT proven a gay gene, although there’re inferences between the animal kingdom and homo sapiens that homosexuality MAY be gene linked. that said, IF, you think that a 86% similarity between mouse and homo sapiens is not enough to convince you that the above mentioned inferences are worth considering, then do NOT try to convince others about your 0.5% success rate of the so-called conversion therapy of GLBTs to heteros.

The average Singaporean is hardly bother with others sexuality except to those who see a potential mate that suits his or her taste. Homosexual was not an issue hitherto until it is made into a National Issue by the Homosexuals to have Laws governing it repealed.

Many selectively choose to discuss homosexuality by itself and stubbornly, erratically refuse to see it as an anomaly similar to other defects such as murderer, paedophile, necrophilia, sadist, thief etc. They accept the logic that any predisposed nature(natural, instinctive behaviours) of beings should not be subjected to discipline, enlightenment, punishment and correction, but, should instead be allowed to let them be, proliferate, supported and it seems; promoted(as in a rally/lobby/campaign). How do we explain for the existences Sciences, Laws and Orders, traditional virtue and values, tribal tradition and system etc in the Human World ? Are these not formulated to correct the unusual, why are conjoined twins seperated ? Are they not born naturally in that way ? Why do we slaughter other animals for food ? Are they not born to live and die naturally ?

Lastly, allow me to admit myself that i am sick, i wish and want to stop surfing the Internet, unfortunately, i seem to be addicted. Can some kind souls offer me some advice here. How i wish this is the last time i look at the computer, though i know there is absolutely nothing wrong with me getting knowledges and educated in Cyberworld. In fact i should be encouraged if not for the addiction.

I thank You all for reading.

patriot

So the ‘gay gene’ justifies the behaviour of the GLBT?

What about those who like to have sex with both male and female? I suppose science has also proven that the ‘bisexual gene’ exists.

I think most of the conservatives hold this perception that GLBT is a lifestyle choice, which is not. Yes, there are some who might have shown us that they can change – but these are not the real McCoys, these are misguided ones (in the GLBT context), who had believed they were gay when they are actually not, and were able to discover later in life that they have a real attraction toward the opposite sex and not the same sex. So they ‘change’ back to who they originally were.

In case any of you think what I have just shared sounded out of this world and illogical, let me tell you that I am speaking about my own experience. I was in an industry where interactions with the GLBT community was a daily routine. This happened at a time when I was a very young man, still very much searching for my own sexual identity, being made difficult with the company I kept, which was 50% gay as much as it was mainstream. I wore makeups, eyeliners and flashy clothes ( no dresses though – whew!) etc. and experimented with loads of other gay norms – (except sexual activities) – even though I was never attracted to any of them.

My awakening came when I met the girl of my dream. The usual butterflies in the stomach, the lovery-dovey eyes and light-hearted feelings of love allowed me to discover myself for who I really was – a normal heterosexual guy. What I had went through was just a fad, very much influenced by the fashion and entertainment scenes of that time. Gay groups were so rampant and gay dressings were at its peak. I was part of a young society influenced by it – nothing more.

Imagine if I was made to believe that all these were normal and to be told that I was actually gay when I am not. My life could potentially be different from what it is today – a happily married heterosexual with a loving and beautiful family.

Thanks for responding. I accept your explanation on the “suppressed desire” view point albeit to me this expression is not limited to the subject issues. Nonetheless, it is always nice to hear a different perspective on controversial issues where it is still treated as taboo subject in this modern metropolis and in the 21st century.

I certainly hope a fair view is presented as this society already has so much clouded issues than concerned citizenry hope to find the balanced in our almost suffocating living space. I simply cannot comprehend a nation with such high literacy rate yet we see some very irrational (to the degree of “hate”) thoughts and views expressed and the lack of compassions towards her fellow citizenry. It is sad indeed for a nation that had weathered many adverse situations before we get to where we are today. To my fellow Singaporeans, I have this to say: the world has not change, we did.

I certainly wish people can take a deep breath and step back each time before inking their comment and spare a thought to the recipient they are targeting and ask: “would I want people to reciprocate the treatment unto me?” Exercise a little tolerance and compassion towards our fellow human beings will make this troubled world a better place for all of us who call this nation and planet earth our home.

Sincerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

Conversion therapy has “low” success rates because it is resting on many dubious assumptions.

We have neither identified the factors which shape our sexual orientation nor elucidated the exact mechisms of their complex interactions.

How do we seek to manipulate/change something whose workings we do not even as yet fully understand?

We are all strongly conditioned to be heterosexist, so much so that we have to consciously resist it.

For instance, people mainly ask “what causes homosexuality”?

Why aren’t we also interested in knowing what causes heterosexuality?