‘… but miracles takes just a little longer’

117) HT on May 7th, 2009 11.50 am

‘The election at the EGM was won, the FM got spanked and ..’

Poor, poor Curious , so reluctant to disilusion him, but -

The FM proposed, God disposed – at the EGM, 2 May 2009. Amen.

113) Curious on May 6th, 2009 9.14 pm

Have some sympathy for our poor little Furious Curious – he/she (it?) has been posting desperately on so many threads trying to turn black into white. Must be tiring for him and with only sour grapes for nutrition, all can see that his mind is gone.

No matter. The election at the EGM was won, the FM got spanked and Curious despite his hyperbole knows better than to enrich the lawyers by starting a hopeless legal case so all is well.

And if nutcases want to pick a fight with the govt and the MOE and the LGBT community, good for them. We’ll wait and see what happens.

(sigh) – just illustrates my point – no concept about rules of engagement in a civil society and sheer waste of breath. Also, not only poor command of the English language but showing signs of losing his/her mind. Sore Losers Syndrome clearly in evidence …. sad, sad, sad …

1 “Aiyoh”

That’s what Aware must be shouting now that the silly game is out in the open.

2″Curious, surely even one such as you must admit that what happened at the EGM was lawful, isn’t it?

It would been if there were no mob rule, duress, undue influence, death threats and storming of the Bastille. What happened revealed the dark side of some women in Singapore. Hooliganism in public meetings has no place in a civilized society like Singapore. Also electing new officers when the exco had not even resign cannot be legal in any society.

2″A little high spirited perhaps but that’s what happens when people play rough.

That must be the understatement of the year. The only people who played rough were the hooligans on 2nd May, a day of infamy for civil society.

3″After all, if its so unlawful, surely public spirited people like you would have called the police? Reported to the police? Or filed lawsuits or report the matter to the Registrar of Societies?”

The impossible the mainstream values have tackled immediately and they have succeeded to convince the MOE to throw out the nefarious CSE, but miracles takes just a little longer.

People are questioning how could the election be legal if it was held prior to the resignation of the exco?

4″No? none of the above? So, okay settled then, it’s lawful. Come on, move on’

Must be the sour grapes working on you right now. The battle was lost on 2nd May but the war has just begun and the score is mainstream values 1 GLBT 0.

Aiyoh Curious, surely even one such as you must admit that what happened at the EGM was lawful, isn’t it? A little high spirited perhaps but that’s what happens when people play rough. After all, if its so unlawful, surely public spirited people like you would have called the police? Reported to the police? Or filed lawsuits or report the matter to the Registrar of Societies?

No? none of the above? So, okay settled then, it’s lawful. Come on, move on.

1″what a waste of breath and space trying to explain the intricacies of the law to people who have no concept of the basic rules of engagement in a civil society, let alone the rudiments of the law! ”

So it is lawful to engage in mob rule, death threats, lynching party and storming of the Bastille when it comes to the public meeting of a civil society? Where did you learn the rudiments of law? In the jungle?

what a waste of breath and space trying to explain the intricacies of the law to people who have no concept of the basic rules of engagement in a civil society, let alone the rudiments of the law! At least, Josie & her Gang finally saw the light and accepted defeat by resigning (graciously or otherwise).

Those of her supporters who cannot or will not follow her example and are spoiling for a fight should take the matter to the courts or the Registrar of Societies if they REALLY feel that the AWARE constitution has been breached, and the New Exco is illegal. Not repeat the same allegations in cyberspace ad nauseum – so unproductive.

Similarly, those who are still harping on the CSE should resort to the proper avenues if they feel it is not appropriate – one of the first is, pull your own kids out of it if you think it will ‘corrupt’ them or turn them into lesbians, gays, etc In other words, vote with your feet – that’s the most effective method, rather than clutter this space with spurious accusations and innuendoes. Likelihood is, your kids aren’t even affected, since not all schools have the programme. And who are you to judge for those parents who want their kids in the programme?

If FM & her Gang of 7 felt so strongly about the CSE , why didn’t they voice their objections at the EGM? In fact, no-one in the FM camp (or any of their supporters) repeated their allegations when one of the CSE trainers clarified (at the EGM) that the parts on homosexuality, etc occupied only 1.5 mins of a 3 hour programme. Did FM seriously believe in her allegatons, or was it just a cynical attempt to grab attention? If so, she’s certainly suceeded, since there is complete silence now from her camp, but the cats’ paws are repeating the same old lines ad infinitum. SUBSTANTIATE your claims or accept defeat graciously.

Your attempt at sarcasm, if there was any, also pretty much fails due to your incoherence.

This kind of attitude is a real turn-off. People who don’t even know what is going on, and pass value judgments based on misinformation. I’ve seen so many of these types commenting on other articles. If you want to make your voice heard, at least make sure its credible first. Don’t make a fool of yourself.

It’s people like these that justify the government’s strict OB markers. Sigh, maybe true democracy is really not for everyone.

So much for moral vigilantes.

Why use the world-famous orchestrated circus as a example ? At least I didn’t see any wayang during the AWARE meeting, and everyone free to speak, but I see tons of wayangs and expensive kangaroos singing the same musical tune in the circus, and they can even hip-hop. You see, at least there is solution and result in AWARE , but in our circus, there is no solution and action unless it benefit the kangaroos.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/aware-lessons-from-a-fiasco/comment-page-5/#comment-70607

1″Art 9 of the Constitution merely states that the management of the Society is vested in the general meeting, presided over by the Prez. ”

Really? What does the rest of Article 9 say then? Why are you reluctant to post the whole Article9 so that other lawyers can give their opinions too?

2″The rest of the Art is on the necessary quorum for the making of resolutions, which was more than satisfied, and is hence not material for your purposes.”

Never mind. Just post the complete Article9 and then we can discuss further.

Since TOC reported that ” Legal counsel for the new exco is speaking now. He says the constitution does not “expressly” give grounds for the eogm to remove the exco. He also said a vote of no confidence is not legally binding. The meeting continues” it is very important that you post the complete Article 9 for all to see.

And please advise, Mr Lawyer , if an Election of Officers in Aware can be legally held iaw its constitution when the exco had yet to resign, if there were no notice given and if the Election of Officers was not part of the EOGM’s Agenda?

Also according to the ROS,”In carrying out their activities, societies not only have to abide by the rules of their own respective constitutions, but also the prevailing laws in Singapore.”

Did Aware conduct the Election of Officers iaw the rules of its constitution? Any pro bono advice, learned counsel?

haha this one even funnier weihan! one day before the EGM, now what wld WWHD?

Art 9 of the Constitution merely states that the management of the Society is vested in the general meeting, presided over by the Prez. The general meeting, as you would no doubt be aware, is comprised of the members (i.e. the 3000 folks who were present.) The rest of the Art is on the necessary quorum for the making of resolutions, which was more than satisfied, and is hence not material for your purposes.

Article 12 notes that members who wish to place items on the agenda may do so with 10 days notice to the Secretary. While the resolution to remove Josie’s exco was likely not communicated to the Secretary (we don’t know if it was), there are no words in the Article indicating a mandatory nature (“shall” etc), or whether breach of the Article voids the resolution. In my reading of the AWARE M&A , there is nothing implied that voids such a resolution either.

But there is no need to rely on Art 12 because it was always open to Josie’s legal counsel, who was present at all times, to object to any purported impropriety. By not doing so, he must be taken to have elected to accept the proceedings (thereby “curing” it, in non-legal parlance). Alternatively, it was also always open to Josie’s exco when they returned to the EGM to dispute the technicalities of Art 12. But they did not, and waived that avenue when they tendered their resignation. Josie’s resignation is the key event here. Legal counsel was clearly aware of the sentiment of the general meeting (as evidenced by the overwhelming support at General Meeting in favour of electing a new team), and it would not have changed a thing if the new election was held before or after Josie’s resignation.

In any case, attention should be drawn to Art 17 on the duties and powers of the exco –”the exco may not act contrary to the expressed wishes of the general meeting without prior reference to it, and always remains subordinate to the general meeting”. This suggests that there is no case for Josie to dispute the timing of notice when its crystal clear what the express wishes of the general meeting are.

While its doubtful that Josie’s exco is estopped from insisting on its strict legal right on general equitable grounds, this is a moot point since its a reality that Josie will not be issuing a challenge. (And i guess, neither will you).

Now, that was my pro bono advice.

I am waiting with bated breath for your application to mount a challenge on the purported “ultra vires” election. Somehow, though, I doubt you will get up off your keyboard and do anything about it, despite all your talk.

1″During the Aware EGM, the voting results were announced at about 8:10 pm. Josie Lau and team did not resign immediately, but went missing for an hour to decide. What happened during that hour? This video provides the answer. ”

Hey WeiHan, when I am ready to do a movie called “Bare-backing Mountain” you will certainly be the one to be considered as the Director.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHKZdFwcjDo

#99) according to the New Paper (3 May) FM & the Gang of 7 had retired to the rubbish dump to deliberate their decision. Maybe they were so happy to be home, they forgot about the EGM.

1″for people like FM, josie and gang, who at least had some actions, we throw them out. ”

Yes, you certainly did by mob rule, death threats and storming of the “Bastille” tactics. But is that good for civil society? Maybe by your standards it is.

Gandhi once said that you can judge a country by the way the people treat their animals.

I think he will also agree that you can judge a country by how its civil society holds public meetings and why mob rule and death threats have no place in a civilized society.

2″or people like curious and watchman, who have zero action, just play along lor.”

What do you think we are writing to this forum for if we take zero action? How do you know if people are not examining whether the election was legally held?

3″siao one you all also so angry, waste time lah, just ignore them.”

Then go back to your dark backroom and don’t engage in this forum.

The Watchman appears to be unAware of the proceedings at the EOGM. The motion to remove the Josie-Exco and to re-elect a new Exco was passed with overwhelming majority against 2 objections by a show of hands. At that time, Josie & team were nowhere to be found. It was only after that, 15 mins after the removal motion was passed, in the midst of re-election, that Josie’s team returned to the stage to announce their resignation. By then, Josie’s team were already no longer Exco. Legal counsel was there all this while. So what are you wrangling about, Watchman?