“I think he could not understand the truth of this incident or he would not want to understand the truth of this incident. If he could not understand the matter then his political consciousness or understanding is very low. If he does not want to understand the truth of the matter, then it is very dangerous” - Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education Mr Tang Guan Seng.
In the whole of Singapore, 2.6 million people, who will speak up for these 15? Somebody has to do the job. It is a necessary job. - Opposition Member of Parliament Mr Chiam See Tong.
In the Parliamentary sitting of 19 July 1987, a total of 17 People’s Action Party Members of Parliament (MP) stood up to speak against opposition MP Chiam See Tong’s motion calling for the release of the detained “Marxist Conspirators”.
The Online Citizen reproduces segments of the exchanges between Mr Chiam and PAP MPs.
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The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Mr Tang Guan Seng) (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the amendment moved by the Member for Clementi.
When the Member for Potong Pasir moved his motion, he said that these 15 detained people should be released on humanitarian grounds. I think what we should consider is either the personal freedom of these 15 people or the security of the whole nation, and whether we should consider either the grief of the members of the families of these 15 people or that of the interests of the whole population of Singapore. We have to choose between the two. As a responsible Government, we have to look after the interests of the absolute majority. We must have a balanced reasoning. In weighing our reasons, we should realize that until these 15 persons can show that they will cause no more harm to our society, we should not release them. This will then be a logical decision.
When this incident happened in May, many people were puzzled because in our history of nation building this is the first time that a link between the Marxists and the Church has been shown. People in general may not understand how these two groups could get together because, like fire and water, they cannot co-exist.
The second point is that most of these people detained are English-educated. This is contrary to our historical experience when in the past most of the Communists or leftists were Chinese-educated. People were puzzled how the English-educated people could now be involved in the communist and Marxist plot. But they forget that Marxism emanated from Europe where the Euro-communists were not Chinese-educated. So, this is history.
Another point that puzzles them is now that Singapore is already prosperous and the economy is well developed and people generally are enjoying a good standard of living, where are the fertile grounds and conditions to cause Marxists to sprout and have some ground to exist? For these reasons they have some doubts as to whether the Government has rightly arrested these people. However, after the Ministry of Home Affairs issued long statements disclosing detailed events and through the TV forums these 15 people made open confessions about their part in these activities and the background which led to the formation of their thinking and ideology, many people are now convinced that the Government has sufficient grounds and reasons to take such actions in the interest and safety of the majority of the people of Singapore and for the security of the country.
In the early stage, on a matter of such importance, the only Opposition Member should have spoken when many people were puzzled. He did not. So I think his political consciousness or sensitivity is much weaker than the general public. This is a pity. Yet, after the Government’s explanation, he still raises this motion before this House. This is even more difficult to understand. I think he could not understand the truth of this incident or he would not want to understand the truth of this incident. If he could not understand the matter then his political consciousness or understanding is very low. If he does not want to understand the truth of the matter, then it is very dangerous, because when he made his speech earlier he mentioned that in the US and other countries there were such and such incidents taking place yet heaven had not fallen down. He does not seem to know that our situation here is different.
Mr Chiam See Tong: I think the Parliamentary Secretary is unfair in making personal attacks on me. He says I have got very weak political consciousness. What has this got to do with our subject matter here? If you want to make personal attacks, get out of this House and make personal attacks on me, please.
An hon. Member: True or false.
Mr Chiam See Tong: All right, let him repeat outside whether it is true or false. Go outside and say that I have got a weak political consciousness. I am raising this motion because I do not understand. What proof have you got? You are just raving like a mad man in this House.
An hon. Member: Personal attack.
Mr Tang Guan Seng(In Mandarin): If the Member for Potong Pasir could wait until I have finished my speech before rising, it would have been better. But half-way through, he interrupted me and jumped up. He is a bit too excited. What I was trying to say is that as a popularly elected MP who professed to have political consciousness, he should be more sensitive politically than the general public. But when the ordinary people or some of them are puzzled about certain matters, as the MP of the Opposition, it should have been his duty to come out and express his views. Is it not his duty to do so? Therefore, it could either be that he is afraid to take up his responsibility, or his political sensitivity is too weak.
Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish you would call him to order and ask him to speak on the topic. He is talking about a lot of irrelevant things about me. What has it got to do with the amendment? Let him just please tell me.
Mr Ng Kah Ting (Punggol): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the motion moved by the Member for Potong Pasir. I must! The Government has done the right thing. The 15 detainees are people who calmly and single-mindedly pursued a course calculated to bring about unrest, chaos and even bloodshed to our country. I am glad, Sir, that the Government has decided to allow an Opposition Member’s motion to be seconded by one of its own Backbenchers when the motion could just as easily be killed. It is testimony to the political maturity of Singapore that we can have such an issue discussed openly in Parliament and also shown to all Singaporeans on television. However, although itis good to have these things aired, I could not understand the motive of the Member for Potong Pasir for raising the issue. Therefore, Sir, let me place before the House the possible motives of the Member and let us together examine whether they have any justification.
I ask the Member for Potong Pasir, who is he championing? Whose side is he on? Is he proposing a motion merely out of consideration for the 15 detainees? For their human rights? I ask him, what about the rights of the rest of our population? The right to a peaceful, prosperous and harmonious society. The right to an open and free society. The right to a life free of subversion and manipulation by pro-Communist elements. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am asking the Member for Potong Pasir to look at the Government’s action as a whole and not lose sight of the forest for the trees. We must look at this from a higher plane. There is more to all this than just the detention ofthe 15 persons.
We are a very fragile society. The fine threads of peace and harmony that bind our multi-racial society can be easily broken; and once broken, they cannot be easily repaired. We cannot afford to be complacent. The Government must be ever vigilant against subversion and nip any conspiracy to alter the status quo by violent means in the bud. The Government need make no apology for detaining these people under the Internal Security Act. The Government has the mandate of the people. The Government has been elected by democratic process after (I stress the word “after”) the Opposition has made the ISA an issue in several elections and despite this, the PAP has been returned time and again.
Mr Chiam See Tong: The Member for Punggol has brought up many important points. He asked me whom am I championing? Whose side I am on? When I come before the House, I do not have any ulterior motives. I am not championing for the 15. Somebody must speak up for them. In the whole of Singapore, 2.6 million people, who will speak up for these 15? Somebody has to do the job. It is a necessary job. And I have been placed in a position where I have the opportunity to do it and I am doing it. That is all to it. And the Member for Punggol seems to want to put and imply a sinister motive to me. I have got no sinister motive in bringing this up.
Mr Chandra Das: Political mileage.
Mr Chiam See Tong: Well, it does not really matter to me whether there is political mileage or not. As far as the PAP is concerned, everything is politics to them. I think the detention is politics, nothing to do with the security of Singapore. And I do not think the way so many speakers have gone on – they speak in such abstract terms of the world and of historical context and the like – you tend to forget that we are talking of 15 Singaporeans. The whole motion is that these 15 Singaporeans should be released. If you cannot give a valid reason why they should be detained a day further, then they should be released at all costs.
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Read also:
Operation Spectrum – 22 years later
Passion for activism extinguished… but not for long
May 1987 – A conspiracy un-proved
TOC Exclusive: Teo Soh Lung – In her own words (Part One)
The Marxist Conspiracy – Not forgetting the evil things that have already been done (Ravi Philemon)
29 July 1987: Chiam’s finest hour
Was it a Red or White conspiracy?
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Also:
“Marxist Conspiracy” revisited
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Tang Guan Seng was the PAP candidates that LTK beat in Hougang in 1991 and never made it back to the Parliament.
Karma play its part!
“When this incident happened in May, many people were puzzled because in our history of nation building this is the first time that a link between the Marxists and the Church has been shown. People in general may not understand how these two groups could get together because, like fire and water, they cannot co-exist.”
This statement make me puke. First of all, he said there is a link (direct or indirect eg like oil price indirectly link to transport fare ?) between the Marxists and the Church and yet no evidence has been shown, but from mouth of this pap, it is taken as gospel truth. Can statement through Coercion of the detaineses be taken as evidence ?
Next, this clown say that people could not understand ? How can people in general understand at all when they are told to accept it as the truth without supporting evidence other than forced statement from detaineses ? No wonder the only people that can understand at all is from PAP since their understanding is to detain the victims at all cost, nevermind whether guilt is factual or not factual.
Aiya…he never made it huh…
….I hope after so many years he realised what he did..
….. ..people are picking up cans from the dustin….Thanks to this fellow….
The 15 detain were English speaking professionals with a social cause….
(Western Educated Liberals)
If they were allowed to go further..the PAP party would have lost ground…….
this is how I see it….
……”to look at the Government’s action as a whole and not lose sight of the forest for the trees. We must look at this from a higher plane. There is more to all this than just the detention of the 15 persons……”
Yeah….thanks…there surely is more to it….like people picking up cans and jumping on tracks…..20 years ago…you guys stuffed it up and this is where we are…..
(albeit we have improved in certain areas, namely education)
Now there is another group….willingly or unintentionally doing the same…..I wonder where we will be in the next 20 years…..
The interesting question to ask would be ….
….where are the children of the yesteryear MP’s ……what are they doing….
…… are they activly invovled in grassroots work or perhaps in Parliment itself….
what are they really doing….
are they comfortably living a life in Singapore…..
or are they at least happy….
happy to see their kids grow up and build up Singapore for the next level….
This incident is played out all over again when members of the SDP were arrested for protesting (a basic human right). This recent incident brought more memories to me and is relevant to today’s context. Younger Singaporeans might want to take up this issue with the government. The history of that Marxist Conspiracy is a time of great fear where our parents dare not test. But now, younger Singaporeans are getting emboldened (probably due to foreigners in our midst and the PAP’s need to save it’s reputation) to test the system. Let us for once vote for the party which espouses freedom and democracy than voting for the party which ruled by fear.
The cynicism displayed by the PAP MPs in this excerpt is saddening.
Mr Chiam is really a compassionate and upright man. For 15 innocent people, he irked the incumbent and took the risk to ask for justice. If they are high handed enough, they could just trump another charge and added him as 16 and detained him right inside their parliament. And those dogs who ignored and barked other ways, I was really amazed.
For me, I was too young to understand, I just think they were right by reading the newspaper and also the weird pictures of these guys seem to reflect the reporting.
He is damn right. What about 2.6M people who did nothing? Have we become so selfish that we ONLY care about making $, upgrading and handouts? Kudos to Mr Chiam for trying his limited BEST. I hope he will always be good health and continue to stand for justice.
Political mileage? The #%$^@ Chandrass (who’s the useless CEO of NTUC now) thinks Singaporeans will vote for you just because you asked for the detainees to be released. As if they care. Chiam spoke because he felt it was right.
4) Muhamad Nur on May 21st, 2009 11.03 am
So happened you mentioned SDP….. but no way will I ever vote for them. Whether they are really fighting for us or for international attention, don’t forget this is a party that kicked out Chiam, the very person we are discussing now. After reading TOC’s excerpts on Chiam, I realize we almost lost this good voice in parliament, no thanks to Chee and his goons.
JD,
You are like a blurred fish that swallowed the PAP’ attacks on CSJ WHOLE,hook line and sinker.
Please, do not just read our MSMs. and get your facts right on whether Chiam
quited the SDP or was booted out.
JBJ is gone and CST is recovering from a stroke…My hats off to the true leader of Singapore…Chiam.
We need more CST…
God bless the Internet. Otherwise, I will still be reading from the craps from MSM.
best written, # 11.. fully agree.
Sad about the apathy of Singaporean over this episode.
Seems to me the public do not care whether any injustice was done by the ruling party. Everyone seems to accept what the govt and media published as the ‘truth’.
And the incident happened during the 90s, it was not too long ago….
When 15 is detained & tortured and everything appears as if nothing happens, then…
When $5 Billion (of your CPF) investments made by Temasek lost in a blink of any eye, then everything appears to the PAP as if nothing happens.
I’m not surprised if they amend the law to reduce the CPF interest percentage AND increase the draw-down age, and there’s nothing you can do, just like the 15.
JD copycrap. Yes Chiam quitted as Secretary-General, but was BOOTED OUT as member. Please differentiate between the two. Whatever post he holds he can still keep his seat but if he’s not a member of a party that he was elected under he will be disqualified. He resigned only before the election. Know your facts please. And please be creative.
All these only portray the sick mind of LKY. He is always imagining dark shadows everywhere and cook up a story of the conspiracy. I think LKY is overdue for his psychiatrist examination and medication.
The year was 1987, i was attending the SP freshman student’s union orientation. Came to the Roman Catholic (RC) booth, chatted with an indian/eurasian senior. Can’t remember the contents but i remember i was moved by his concern about the plight of the common man. This was my impression and i still remember.
It must have been the English Literature GCE “O” Level reading of George Orwell’s Animal Farm, which might have raise my/our awareness and consciousness of social justice, given how little politics and how naive we can be. Literature is important. I hope the PAP gov will not abolish English Literature because of this post !
The next thing i knew, Vincent Cheng and company was splash all over straits times. I remember watching him on TV, but did not follow. At the age of 17, my idea of a communist is of a chinese educated, stout, lean/muscular, wear short sleeve shirted guy… he looked so ang mo pai (western educated). And then they say they somehow got connection with the RC liberation theologians. At that time, the philippines was into the people power movement led by mrs Aquino and the RC church… and so, mentally we form the link.
My mom’s an RC. I’m a protestant (the denomination of which is not into ecumenism). As for my dad, he has only very recently “sent” the tua pek kong and my late grandfather to a chinese temple. Talk about split personality!
what has this got to do with this article? nothing. Just wanting to share my personal experience and perhaps add a historical backdrop to that period in time.
Subsequently, i spent the most wonderful 3 years of my youth at the Singapore Polytechnic (SP). Socially and academically (no more chinese classes).
I respect Mr Chiam now for his guts to live by his conscience at that point in time to have spoken up in parliament for them, knowing full well he will kena jia luk jia luk from the PAP.
I hope we can keep the comments centered on the ISD arrests and Chiam, not about SDP. I appeal to readers, please don’t hijack this important discussion to discuss matters related to uninvolved parties.
“The 15 detainees are people who calmly and single-mindedly pursued a course calculated to bring about unrest, chaos and even bloodshed to our country.”
Bloodshed?!! Even MHA didn’t say bloodshed did they?
“The Government need make no apology for detaining these people under the Internal Security Act. The Government has the mandate of the people. The Government has been elected by democratic process after (I stress the word “after”) the Opposition has made the ISA an issue in several elections and despite this, the PAP has been returned time and again”
I really hope the PAP can put a stop to all this bullshit about the Govt need make no apology & having the mandate of the people. This so-called mandate is not a licence for PAP to do anything. And definitely we don’t think that our mandate includes condoning the Govt to drum up false charges against the opposition.
The more I read about this whole Marxist conspiracy, I am more inclined to believe that the real reason for these arrests has nothing to do with the security of Singapore. Especially if we compare these arrests with how the opposition have been unfairly treated by PAP all these years.
I really hope we Singaporeans can put a stop to the abuse of the people’s mandate by any ruling govt.
It was not an Education matter, but an Internal Security one (if there indeed was an a priori case). So why didnt the Minister for Home Affairs speak up, or the PM if it was claimed to be such a dangerous plot? Why left it to a Parl Sec to the MOE to do the reply? This just showed that all the big guns were cowering behind, and letting him be the lightning rod and the fall guy. He became dispensable come general election. The govt has to answer today for the criminal abuse of the law. The Straits Times has time and again proven to be a propaganda tool, a stooge and the weapon for the subjugation of free speech and democratic rights.
It just goes to prove that Singapore must have more Opposition in parliament. Poor Chiam,doing a lone job but a noble one!
This Ng Kah Ting was just repeating a lot of irrelevant statements. He is right if all the premises could be proven to be valid and true. In deductive logic, if the premises are invalid,no amount of repetition of the conclusion is going to change the argument. He was just wasting the House time. Tang Guan Seng resorted to personal attacks and character assassination ploys but also did not add light or produce new evidence to show the detention and arrest were justified. How would these two jokers know that the ISD had a case? Did they see the evidence themselves or just relied on their own govt’s words?
One can see all these extra PAP MPs were low calibre people and were there just to block the path to the truth and to drown out the Opposition member and conspire to cover up.
It is an even bigger Fascist Conspiracy against the people!
Men! this is really the work of the devil. How can one do such cruelty to destroy 15 innocent lives just to keep one in power. Talking so much about the Narzis, we are not much different too if this IXX stuff is allowed to continue.
CST would always be a respected man in Singapore’s politics.
I do hope his health would sustain till the next election especially to win a GRC.
SDP and their goons, honestly what you sow is what you reap, if you sow discord and rebellion that is what you will get. I do not think their cause is worthwhile at all.
Can we say all the men in white are goons? Well i hope the emergence of a new PAP one that dares to allow protests and opening up, i.e hong lim park would spell greater growth for Singapore as a country.
Interesting transcript. Just wish to clarify, why are there strange interjections by “An hon. Member” and “Mr Chandra Das” with one-liners during the exchange??
In times like this, let us remember a poem left by Martin Niemöller, a German who lived during the reign of Hitler’s rise to power…
—
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
And then they came for me,
but there was no one left to speak out for me.
Compare Chiam and Lee (PM):
Lee: Money, Money, Money! Only money matters!
Chiam: People, People, People. People must come first.
I concur with Mr Chiam because if people are taken care of, happy and have dignity, they will find good things to do, they will build, build and build bringing in possibly more money than Mr Lee can ever imagine.
Hard to find talent to lead Spore? No credible oppo? Do we realise now the media play a big part???
When will the old joker kick the bucket?
He is a sickly man and throughout his whole life.
aiyoyo
Chiam is the ELITE for man on the street
aiyoyo
Mr Chiam See Tong pwned 17 PAP MAP!
gg no re!
the PAP really really very funny!!! they keep detaining people who are suspect of being a communist.and keep saying communist is a very dangerous thing, and use ISD to charge without trial.let me ask the PAP back, they have dealings with the Burmese military leaders.they are more worst when they produce drug.
they are worst then communist cos they abuse their power.they are dictator.
we still have dealing with them when most western country like australia had broken off ties with them.heh, china a communist country too.and singapore let in so many communist peoples into our country…. LOL!!!!
what kiind of a PAP government is that trying to use communist as an excuse to detain people who are just trying to fight for more freedom in singapore.
the PAP themselves said communist is bad but their rule of goverment is quite the same as communist ruling…. or worst then that!!!
Thank you so much for this historical ride.
For all the PAP MPs who ran Mr Chiam down, I hope that they can put their hands on their heart today and ask, “Did I do right for Singapore? Did I do right for Singaporeans especially the detainees? Or was I just a lapdog buttering my bread while innocents were being incarcerated and tortured?”
That’s why I respect folks like JBJ, Chee siblings, Martyn See, Seelan Palay, the Kangaroo Trios for putting their freedom and money where their mouth is!
What I knew then was from the msm and common sense told me, my friends and relatives that something odd and sinister was going on.
I’m glad to know that indeed something odd and sinister was going on.
Thanks again for the update.
feedmetothefish
Hi Angelina,
It actually goes to show that it is not Singapore lacks credible Opposition but rather there is not enough Opposition members to form government.
“the PAP really really very funny!!! they keep detaining people who are suspect of being a communist.and keep saying communist is a very dangerous thing, and use ISD to charge without trial.”
YOu see that how things work. First, you accuse someone that you dislike of been certain society threat without giving convincing evidence but you downplay this part since the evidence is not strong enough. Then the second part is where you will focus on, that is the exemplifies the threat (without much reference to the “victim”) and how much damage will happen to the country and start manipulating on the emotional state of the society using the mainstream media, radio , etc. At this point, public’s opinion will be skewed towards the threat and it will be much easier to arrest the person as “no question will be asked for arrest since it already assume that public already understand the seriousness of not arresting that person”.
So u see how the pattern work in Singapore repeatedly ?
3 million pple in singapore and u cannot find 50 pple out of these to form a govt?
No.. its not that there are not enough Opposition members. There are, but each time they raise, they are sued, bankrupted, portrayed as mentally unsound or having ulterior motives by the PAP.
Enuff said.
How many will enrol as member of opposition party?
How many Kenna sued this election?