Highways are always congested, regardless of whether Electronic Road Pricing (ERP) is there or not.
Jeremy Leong, Straits Time Forum Page
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Thats so obvious.
precisely the need for ERP. Free money!
So ERPs are only there to rob those $millions from the motorists, isn’t it obvious? If not? then what? anyone who are directly or indirectly connected to this implementation of these gantries? or you just prefer to shut up and enjoy your extra $$$ from your master!
Hello friends, without ERP. You think we can get Road Tax rebate. They will install more. Pay until you broke!!!!
ERP type approach has shown NOT to work in places like London. Over time, people become desensitized to the extra charges and just built them into their cost of owning a car.
Has the implementation of GST or its increase stopped you from spending on electronics and other ‘non-essentials’? Same goes for ERP. The bulk of people just stop taking ERP cost into account when the price of car is so high to begin with.
That’s why LTA has to constantly ratchet up the ERP charges and put up more gantries etc, to re-sensitize people. It’s a losing proposition to expect people to fundamentally change their behavior with usage taxes.
more & more people = more commuting needs = more point-to-point travelling = critical point breached = hence more ERP becoming useless = revenue stream for the collector.
more roads or wider roads sometimes very close to your wonderful 1st class hdb housing together with the above = more pollution = talented ppl may say it is in accordance with “international” standard comparing it to those equally pathetic crowded cities in the world which will have no difficulty in finding twisted comfort in also benchmarking the worst among one another. worst + worst + worst = standard
welcome to the new world of reasoning where you can always see positive among the worst negatives if you choose to be a saint.
Seriously, they should increase the speed limit. I remember in HK the limit is 110 kp/h on the stretch from airport to the city.
Other than that, I think it is prudent to keep the existing speed limits, but on the E’way, 90 is too slow for modern cars and should not compromise safety at all.
I have decided to use public transport (i.e MRT or buses) wherever possible. It requires me to leave home earlier, but I do not need to have the hassle of driving on congested roads. Parking is also a big problem in most places, especially hospitals and government buildings. One has to spend time to look for a vacant space. I also now accept paying for taxi fares. It is expensive, but better than driving.
Frankly, the increase in population is a bad idea.
erp charge $50 everytime we pass.
i think business not so stupid.
bleed slowly, if one time too much no business.
Although the ERP is totally useless in traffic management, I think it still serve a purpose. Every time I pass an ERP gantry; I am reminded who not to vote for in the next GE.
Although I don’t quite like the ERP, but to qualify that roads are congested 24×7 isn’t really fair. I live up north and I use the most expensive road in SG daily. And yes, I pay ERP daily as well.
But over the past few months, I’ve adjusted my own habits, and I now leave home at 7.30am. From Woodlands Ave 2 to town, I will finish the entire Journey in under 30 minutes, and I now spend the next 1 hour having breakfast with my Mrs, spending quality time as well
Sometimes, making a little adjustment to our own lifestyle will help everyone. Most importantly help ourselves. And oh, when during non ERP hours at the CTE (around 11, the traffic is OK lah).
Singapore’s Jam isn’t really a Jam. Try driving in Paris. It took me 3 hours just to reach Les Ulis from Paris.
=> 11) Err on May 28th, 2009 3.53 pm
this is exactly my sentiment. every ‘beep’ reinforces my resolve to vote wisely, if at all there is an opportunity to vote.
the most frustrating part is to go home and get beeped twice along the CTE during the evening. the only ‘consolation’ to this is that when i exit AMK Ave 3, i enter into my PM (Prime Mansion – my hdb mansion) built on Prime Land. i am confused though, why is there a need to operate the ganrty till 10.30 pm.
8) Tan Kin Lian
Private cars and city states are non compatible creatures, unfortunately.
Agree. MRT/bus is faster is we deduct the time stuck in jams and circling around for the elusive carpark lot.
And I do get to read and see the surrounding lanscape which we do not when we are driving.
And if you are in town, you need not back track to where your car is, you can go forward to the next station/bus stop.
It took me a while to kick my addiction to driving veverywhere, but it is a refreshing way to travel.
But during peak, you will get to know the train door intimately up close and personal.
Congestion pricing is a concept from market economics regarding the use of pricing mechanisms to charge the users of public goods for the negative externalities generated by the peak demand in excess of available supply. Its economic rationale is that, at a price of zero, demand exceeds supply, causing a shortage, and that the shortage should be corrected by charging the equilibrium price rather than shifting it down by increasing the supply. Usually this means increasing prices during certain periods of time or at the places where congestion occurs;
Nobel-laureate William Vickrey is considered by some to be the father of congestion pricing, as he first proposed it for the New York City Subway system in 1952. In the road transportation arena these theories were extended by Maurice Allais, Gabriel Roth who was instrumental in the first designs and upon whose World Bank recommendation the first system was put in place in Singapore,
The transport economics rationale for implementing congestion pricing on roads, described as “one policy response to the problem of congestion”, was summarized in a testimony to the United States Congress Joint Economic Committee in 2003: “congestion is considered to arise from the mispricing of a good; namely, highway capacity at a specific place and time. The quantity supplied (measured in lane-miles) is less than the quantity demanded at what is essentially a price of zero. If a good or service is provided free of charge, people tend to demand more of it – and use it more wastefully – than they would if they had to pay a price that reflected its cost. Hence, congestion pricing is premised on a basic economic concept: charge a price in order to allocate a scarce resource to its most valuable use, as evidenced by users’ willingness to pay for the resource”.
source: wiki
The ERP is just another avenue for the garhment to tell ppl “We have made substantial loss in the reserves built up by your forefathers. We need the money to replenish the fast diminishing stock. So we can continue to invest more and loose more”
“Nobel-laureate William Vickrey is considered by some to be the father of congestion pricing, as he first proposed it for the New York City Subway system in 1952.”
The US has also invented a lot of complicated models (with inherent complicated variables which do not mirror the shifting dynamics of real life) and also the famous sub-prime mortgage.
“Hence, congestion pricing is premised on a basic economic concept: charge a price in order to allocate a scarce resource to its most valuable use, as evidenced by users’ willingness to pay for the resource.”
basic ? unfortunately, the world is complex as human behaviours are complex.
Government said they lost millions in rebates and taxes after ERP introduction. How come I am paying like paying 40% more when I am only driving on saturdays and sundays. Some car parks, i went inside and no lot, i get charged like $3 or $1, exit within 10 mins.
#17
“the world is complex as human behaviours are complex.”
You put it so well.
Discovery Channel version = “The world is awesome”
Urban city and cars are incompatible creatures.
There is no one solution that can make everyone happy. This option simply do not exist.
Life is full of hard choices.
We have to make choices under the circumstances.
“Life is full of hard choices. We have to make choices under the circumstances.”
True for those who need to make hard choices but also equally true that those people who are at the wrong receiving end of such hard choices should resist and work for better change in a way they know best.
If you are able, perhaps get yourself electable to be an mp / ncmp and hopefully get voted in. If you are not so able, do it in some other way or just rant away.
No one is going to tell you that he is guaranteeing your well-being, only you can help yourself. Have you heard of something like this “singaporeans being complacent”.
18) IMS on May 28th, 2009 6.53 pm Government said they lost millions in rebates and taxes after ERP introduction. How come I am paying like paying 40% more when I am only driving on saturdays and sundays. Some car parks, i went inside and no lot, i get charged like $3 or $1, exit within 10 mins.
Precisely, whatever reasons they gave on any new tax implementation are as good as shutting you up and stop asking anymore question. A very good exmaple of these govt keeps telling the people that they are subsidising heavily on those HDB flats for the singaporeans while infact, they are profiteering from them instead. But when more and more starts questioning them, then they tell you “oh! the price of HDB flats are actually according to market value? See! they keeping telling lies after lies to the singaporean while all these years they’ve been filling up their pockets with $millions out of the taxpayers forced contribution, they called it “nation building” rubbish!
The most expensive carpark is in NUS. 2hr cost $13++ if u park at staff area, at $0.08/min
2hr cost $13
i think open carpark and have business much better than to draw minister salary.
London tops all other countries for the pricest parking space in the world! London’s most expensive car park is Pavilion Road multi-storey in Knightsbridge, a stones throw away from the famous Harrods. If you park there for six hours, it will set you back £43.20. So which car park charges the most per hour? Berners St car park in Bloomsbury hourly fee is £8.
London has had a congestion charge in the central area since 2003. The organisation responsible for the charge is Transport for London. The fee was introduced on February 17, 2003. Initially set at £5, then raised on July 4, 2005 to £8
Stockholm has a congestion pricing system on a permanent basis since August 1, 2007. All the entrances and exits of this area have unmanned control points operating with automatic number plate recognition. All vehicles entering or exiting the congestion tax affected area, with a few exceptions, have to pay 10–20 SEK (1.09–2.18 EUR, 1.49–2.98 USD) depending on the time of day between 06:30 and 18:29. The maximum tax amount per vehicle per day is 60 SEK (6.53 EUR, 8.94 USD).
Hong Kong Car Park Spaces for Rent ads.
Car Park – Covered
Space available 1 June at HK2,000 per month.
Bel-Air No.8 Car Park for Rent
Car park No. 11 at L8 (first level), easy to park. Ask at 21K
Car Park Space for Rent at Midlevels
It’s sheltered and convenient spot for in and out.
It’s at 72 MacDonnell Road, Pak Fai Mansions. Available any time!
Monthly Rental : HKD2,500
Covered Carpark Mid-Levels (Next to Escalator)
Tycoon Court, 8 Conduit Road, Mid-Levels.
Covered carpark
Close to escalators
Wall enclosure on both sides (no parking next to carpark)
24 hour access with security
$2000 per month.
Repulse Bay Car Park for rent
Secure, covered car park for rent.
Junction of Repulse Bay Road and South Bay Road.
HKD1,500 / month.
CAR PARK SPACE AVAILABLE
CAR PARK SPACE AVAILABLE NEAR REALTY GARDENS.
CONDUIT ROAD (NEAR MIDLAND REALTY)
PAYMENT: 2100(TWO THOUSAND AND ONE HUNDRED) for the starting month.
1500 onwards.
If you “complain” about ERP being useless, our gahmen in order to “meet your expectations” will just built more ERP or increase charges. Either you all bleed until no blood or you all just stop complaining. In one way or another, we end up shooting ourselves on the foot.
if all motorists in s’pore boycott by not inserting card when crossing erp, what can LTA do?
If the revenue from the ERP is halted, where to get the money to expand the road and transport infrastructure? The Reserves? That is to pay for investments to bear fruits in 30 years time you know.
My friend, who worked in Dubai for the past two years, took me around in his car. He said that Dubai introduced ERP recently, and he LOVED IT. Many people avoided paying the ERP but he was willing to pay (as he earned a high salary). He said that it allowed him to travel faster, with less traffic congestion.
This is another point of view.
If we accept paying the ERP, it will probably be smoother traffic most of the time. I found it on the CTE. But it can be quite expensive … this is LIFE.
To solve the traffic congestion, we need to itnroduce the following measures:
a) Have efficient feeder service to take people from their home to the MRT station. It should operate every 5 minutes (or less) and be economical, like in Hong Kong. Perhaps it can be subsided.
b) Insist that SMRT provide more trains, to avoid overcrowding, rather than maximise their profits.
c) Have SBS to operate express buses that stop every 1 or 2 miles, instead of every 250 meters. You take a feeder bus to this express bus stop.
seems like the rest of the world experts of traffic congestion (less uk ) believes it works. so are our leaders smarter than the rest of the world?
any government who built a highway expect it to be empty
must be damned stupid
to spend billion$
than again
our pap government is 1….
[i]This is another point of view.
If we accept paying the ERP, it will probably be smoother traffic most of the time. I found it on the CTE. But it can be quite expensive … this is LIFE.
[/i]
if this is the case
maybe the RICHs like you should bear the cost of buildin the CTE whatever E
from your owned pockets perhaps?
why should we the poor be made to pay for something we cannot afford to use?
you know roadtaxes is not cheap…
27) KopitiamApek on May 28th, 2009 8.35 pm
HK2,500/- (high side of your good article) = SGD471/- (assuming forex of 1sgd = hk5.3)
In our own carpark in cbd, S$2.5 X 8 hrs (assuming per day) X 22 (working days in a months) = SGD440/- + ERP ($$$ ????). How about total package cost = coe + licence + petrol lexy + fine (assuming that you are careless).
How easy to pluck figures nowsadays to support your own case. Anyway, there is nothing to be proud about if a country looks more like a big fish market.
[i]How easy to pluck figures nowsadays to support your own case. Anyway, there is nothing to be proud about if a country looks more like a big fish market.
[/i]
off course some idiots amon us do not lived in china or phillippines
where literally you can parked your owned vehicles in your front doorstep/office for FREE
do they?
as though
i neved lived in britian my whole live
and without a doubt
i must be earnin $700/month in britain
ownin a car as well
with 15 credit cards in my pocket
33) If ERP works why whole world not adopting it? on May 29th, 2009 9.37 am
Here, you give them the power to make a lot of things work, so definitely it will work. In other countries, you may probably see protests and politicians / candidates kiss their careers good bye for suggesting something that is ‘painful’ to the nation.
32) Tan Kin Lian on May 29th, 2009 8.10 am To solve the traffic congestion, we need to itnroduce the following measures:”
Ya. That should be the direction to go.
Improve public tpt until it is actually easier than driving. It is starting to show in the CBD areas. I do not drive in there anymore.
35) yawnjustwokeup
if this is the case
maybe the RICHs like you should bear the cost of buildin the CTE whatever E
from your owned pockets perhaps?”
1.The infrastructure cost of the entire MRT system is not worked into the train fares.
2.Those who drives more pay more for ERP and expensive carpark.
In the same economics as way back many years TAS (SingTel’s predecessor) chareged a flat rate for residential phones. So the low users are cross subsidisng the heavy users.
We do not live in an ideal world. Nothing can be totally fair. But I think this way is slightly more equitable.
That’s my view. You may not agree with me, and I respect where you are coming from.
I suggest tax to be levied directly on petrol/diesel. You travel more, you pay more regardless where you drive. It will also discourage idling of engine while stationary, driving smaller engine capacity and more fuel efficient cars. When you have to pay for direct usage as against indirect cost like road tax n COE, then the driver will make a consciencious effort to cut down unnecessary use.
I was actually pretty ok with the original ERP gantries and timings. In my opinion, strategically placed on major highways and turned on during peak hours in the morning makes sense. When it is placed everywhere even in heartlands and turned on during timing when people are going home from work; makes no sense. For the merchants in the city, it actually affected their business negatively.
The real problem lies with 900,000 vehicles on our roads in a small country; simply too many cars. Car ownership has been made easier in the last few years resulting in a huge increase in number of cars.
“We do not live in an ideal world. Nothing can be totally fair. But I think this way is slightly more equitable.”
Nothing is ideal. So should people just sit back and keep quite ? Or should they do their own part as much as possible to effect certain changes ? Or should they just resign themselves to the unhealthy notion that they cannot change anything because some powerful force is above them where it has already been quite nicely conditioned into them ? And after that being blamed for being complacent after somehing bad turns out where in the first place they were not even wanted (or invited) to be a part in the ‘highly secretive” control process.
41) Victor
There is already a tax levied on petrol and it is not a small one. Increasing petrol tax will result in higher operating costs for transport companies which will result in increase in public transport costs and business costs. I think it is better to improve public transportation so that it is more convenient to take public transport than to drive a private car. Also car ownership should be looked at again to reduce the number of cars hitting the roads every year.
its a need to or want to own a car here in s’pore?
42&44) SotongBall
Agree. Some past policies error resulted in car growth beyond a sustainable level. That what is are facing now.
Now the taxation has shifted from ownership to usage. The gahmen foregone a great opportunity to correct the car population during a period few years back when the scrapping and export of old cars was at a peak, could have took the change to reduce the car population then, but that was not done.
Improvement to public tpt is the way forward, but I think I could move faster. Train lines are taking forever to be built. Look at the digging going on for eternity for a MRT station outside Suntec, while this is going on, you see the entire IR taking shape. Something is wrong with the way we built the train lines, why does it take so long?
Lastly, I repeat what I wrote earlier, cars and urban areas are incompatble creatures.
45) shenshi on May 29th, 2009 1.57 pm its a need to or want to own a car here in s’pore?”
At presnt day situation, to some is a need, to some is a want.
But the proportion of “need” is still high, and only when public tpt have improved significantly enough, the “need” will shift to want. But there will always those who will need them, as public tpt is not an alternative.
once u tasted a car, u never want to go back to filthy buses & crampy mrt
48) toiletmatter
//once u tasted a car, u never want to go back to filthy buses & crampy mrt//
Every choice comes with a price.