Dear Members
This is my first day in office. I just want to quickly convey my gratitude for your forbearance in the past weeks and for your tremendous support at last Saturday’s EGM.
Your statements, your actions of support have changed the face of civil society in Singapore and we at AWARE can now stand even taller and braver than ever before.
Our membership has surged and women and men, young and old, now feel empowered by your exemplary voices.
These have been an extraordinary time. In the furore and, the trauma, we have experienced affirmation and renewal: old friends have reconnected, new friends made. An immediate task for us is to reach out and connect with all new members, to bridge differences and, to invite their participation in the work of AWARE.
I would also like to thank you for the vote and to say that it is a real privilege to be in office at this momentous time. I’m sorry this has to be short for now. You will hear again from me very soon. The Exco join me in thanking you for your vote of confidence in us.
Warmest Regards,
Dana Lam
President
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
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“An immediate task for us is to reach out and connect with all new members, to bridge differences and, to invite their participation in the work of AWARE.”
Perhaps the above statement is a subtle reference to Josie Lau and her colleagues. If Dana Lam is hinting that she will reach out to them, my respect for her – Dana – would be multiplied many times.
Dana, please do it. There’s too much hurt and pain at the moment. And as president, you have a wonderful opportunity to heal the wounds.
I wish you all the best as the new president of Aware.
I hope Dana Lam will forgive Josie Lau and her circle. What the gang did was despicable and deserving of hate, but if AWARE does not reach out to them, they will only retreat into their closed brand of faith. These are the kind of people we have to reach out to and involve them in positive ways with our society.
Offer the olive branch! After that, the ball would then be in JL’s court on whether to take it or not.
But if JL doesn’t accept the olive branch, well, then there’s nothing you can do about it.
The weak point about the new team is they sack staff instead of giving them warnings. The old guards and their supporters are worse. Conduct themselves like hooligans, yelling, interrupting and disregard for proper rules and regulations. I have ban my 3 children (age 20, 24 n 27) from either joining or approaching Aware for any consultation. I signed up as new member of Aware on the day of the meeting at Suntec and was a neutral guy. I was there to listen to presentations and discussions between the two differing groups. What a letdown.
Now is a great opportunity for Dana Lam and her team to be magnanimous in victory. Wounds should be healed. Kindness should be proffered to the fallen. This will be a great step towards a caring and humane society. AWARE will then be the ultimate winner.
eh, Dana Lam dun forget Claire Nazar…. ask her to come back.
3) Alex – it seems that you have never seen a parliamentary debate in action. Let me assure you that the British house of commons, on which our parliamentary system is loosely modeled, is as rowdy as that. People get shouted down for making stupid, irrelevant statements like ‘I am a feminist mentor because I am on page 73″. Or things like that.
Look for the proceedings and you will see Gordon Brown being mocked and booed.
However, I think that there is a way forward if Josie and TSM and the rest can make reparations for the funds they have squandered without permission. Jesus washed everyone’s feet at easter – if they are as Christian as they say they are, they should too. The spirit of service and love thy neighbour should come forward and it is time for Josie and Co. to walk the walk and talk the talk.
Actions speak louder than words and I would be pleased to see what actions they come forward with.
To Dana & team
Congrats at your victory at the EOGM. I hope that you won both the battle and the war. I wonder what you meant by “exemplery’ voices? Are you refering to and hence condoning chaos and unruly behavours when things don’t go the way they wanted? Sounds like my kids when they were younger and have to cry to get attention and their ways. To be heard, must we silence others? This reminds me of the red shirt & yellow shirt saga in BKK last Nov in the demand of the resignation of PM Somchai Wongsawat ; but at least the new PM Abhisit Vejjajiva took legal / disciplinary actions against those who causes the riot to set the record right.
Yet again, must say it is not a small feat to garner so much support and wish you all the best in leading the causes of women! (would appreciate your comments on the way the behaviours matches your exemplery voices)
forgot to add, how to ensure harmony when 700+ votes against your team? will a balance of tolerance, patience, engagement & dialogue work?
tough winning staunch critics over, but please do try. non the less, all the best to your team!
^.^
Alex #3 – You are entitled to your feelings about the saga at a personal level. However, it sure sounds like your three “kids”, if they feel repressed by your ban, are perfect candidates to seek AWARE for help. They may be your children, but they are also adults each with their own aspirations. Good luck using your father’s authority to impose your personal feelings on their life choices …
I think it is time Singaporeans shed their “authoritarian” mindset. I have mixed feelings about the jeering (I hate seeing someone embarrassed publicly, even if they deserve it) and booing, but it was clear the new exco was trying to impose its (imho, undeserved) authority on the membership in the name of “order” and “house rules” (house rules only make sense if people agree to it). At the same time, it would have been nice if people were patient enough to give the new team a chance to speak (and quite frankly, embarrass themselves again).
Still, it was clear most people showed up at the EGM for a fight, prompted by the (imho) very hostile initial takeover. One should not expect civil discourse to take place under those emotional circumstances.
I hope Dana does extend a hand to Josie’s team simply because they have shown that their views are respected in society as well and if AWARE wants to be inclusive, then they will have to listen to the views of Josie and co.
“One should not expect civil discourse to take place under those emotional circumstances : 8) Lee Chee Wai.
Fully agreed, with a large dose of regret.
Although I cannot condone the manner of the takeover by Josie and her team I must also add that I found it rather disdainful that the old team had resorted to verbal and personal abuses targeted at Josie and team. The most disdainful parts of the whole saga wese the abuses and the lack of civility during the EGM, and the past presidents and exco of AWARE were the most guilty ones leading the frontlines.
Many have classified and are beginning to uphold this saga as an example of a civil society and how a civil discourse can be settled in a civil manner. I beg to differ. The EGM was anything but civil. There is no justification that the saga was conducted in a civil manner.
Secular society has won and no one should be surprised by this. Civil society has taken its first step. To me, civility has a long way more to go in Singapore.
I, personally, cannot bring myself to accept that a group of people who had been hurt by a smaller group, resorted to roping in support to form a bigger group and using this group to shout down at the smaller group, and because their voice is now louder, they are able drown out the smaller group and win hands down. I cannot teach my chidren that this is civil, and that this is the way to deal with discourses.
Personally, I wanted to be given the chance to find out, once and for all, why Josie and her team do they things they did. I wanted to hear from her what she hoped her team would do for her version of AWARE. I wanted to know all the answers to all the questions that were being asked here in TOC and elsewhere all over the island. Now, I can only move on without knowing all these answers.
Don’t get me wrong. I am happy that the old AWARE has won. It fully and truly belongs to them and no religious groups should ever do what Josie and her team did to AWARE. Religion cannot hope to govern the secular. AWARE is secular and it must belong to people who upholds secularism.
My regret is that we will never know what inspired Josie and her team to take over AWARE they way they did. And since we do not know the reasons, we will never ever be able to learn anything more than what we already think we know.
I hope that when the euphoria and the celebrations die down, the old guards would take some time to reflect on how they could have approach the EGM better, especially when it was clear that they would easily win the vote of no confidence by the large turnout of support for them. There was no need for them and their supporters to behave the way they did no matter what the reasons may be that they use to justify their behaviour.
This are my personal view and I will not stop anyone from expressing their own views as a result of reading my views.
Congratulations! to the old guards.
Congrats. You are brave enough to be up there now.
Hope that you will still be around next year.
All the best.
I hope AWARE’s internal decor hasn’t been changed to look like a church.
#3 Alex
This guy sounds like “Watchman”. Anyway he thinks nobody should be allowed to express their feelings about anything that affects them. Evryone should be quai-quai just like little boys and gals in their classrooms, all quiet and waiting for instructions. You speak back at him he says you are unruly and a hooligan. Wake up Alex, the world has moved on and will not go back anymore. Your kids are, as you claim, 20, 24, 27, already adults and they should be capable of independent thought, and you ban them from Aware…goodness gracious, you are a tyrant living in the past. Fortunately for you, a kind and reasonable world still has a little corner left for you to be what you are — though you are unlikely to be just as kind and reasonable if you are in a position of strength over others. Just like the Christians who want to subvert the secular space, their attempts made possible only because the other faiths are respectful of that space and are not aggressive like the fundie Christians. You can imagine what happens when 2 tyrants confront each other.
I agree with gemami’s comment of May 5th, 2009 8.46 am above.
One day, the tables could be turned… The winners today might find themselves outnumbered, outgunned, and drowned in a sea of boos and jeers. And denied right of reply.
No doubt, tensions were high, and Josie and co probably fostered those negative sentiments towards them because of their own actions over the past few weeks. But one can still make one’s point and get the job done, while adhering to the rules of procedure. Be forceful, but no need to cut people off midway, and no need to deny right of reply.
My favourite example is Adlai Stevenson at the UN Security Council facing down the Soviets (who were incidentally chairing the meeting!):
(Movie version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c96Rr_Aixfk
(Real footage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxDGtu-aMi0
Dana, you were illegally and unconstitutionally elected.
Personally you are not a bad person. That is why you were put there as a stooge and to be used by some quarters to promote their agendas. Be careful. Don’t be beguiled into being a pawn .
Come to your senses and examine the constitution to see the legality of the whole saga. The election breached the civil soceity law. Don’t be made a fool.
CSE strkes me as the most controversial and the Traditional(Sexuality) Views that arrows go into target boards, no shooting of arrows at arrows and no shooting is possible between target boards is a sensible argument. The traditionalists, the pious and most of all; almost all parents are likely to want the usual(normal) opposite sex relationships for their offsprings.
Other sexuality variants are for the adventurous, most will be short term experimental fads and not lasting relationships.
Knowledge is good, freedom is good but ultimately they soon not be misused and abused. Let everybody justifies their actions and deeds.
It seems that everybody wants to feel good BUT is everyone prepared to do good ?
patriot
Dear Readers:
my apology for two typo mistakes in my comment #Post 17.
The Word ‘strkes’ should read as strikes and the Word ‘soon’ should read as should.
patriot
Dear Dana, congratulations! Moving forward, I hope Aware would return to its original Vision&Mission statement (I notice you have changed it at your website) With 3000 members, you can do much. One of your first steps should be to bring healing to your organisation. How that is done will demonstrate to everyone if diversity and inclusiveness are the values Aware truly desires for the women of Singapore. Be an exemplary leader. All the best.
Where was the transparency concerning the CSE trainer’s manual. Why was it said that that it was a confidential document. Where were the old guard, when the nonsense therein was distributed to the “trainers”? Where were you?
Hi Fargoal,
Thanks for the clips. We do have miles to go to reach that level of civility.
To Alex,
What right do you have on banning your children to approach AWARE? They are grown man/woman, they can think for themselves.
/// 3) Alex on May 4th, 2009 11.38 pm
I have ban my 3 children (age 20, 24 n 27) from either joining or approaching Aware for any consultation. ///
Alex, I think you should be banned from surfing the Internet. You are obviously not ready to be exposed to truths available out there in the world wide web.
Dear Alex, your children are old enough (mostly legal adults) to decide what’s right or wrong for themselves. If they cannot think for themselves, it’s rather sad, don’t you think?
Dear patriot, “Other sexuality variants are for the adventurous, most will be short term experimental fads and not lasting relationships.” I’m sure your knowledge of “sexual variants” as you call it is minimal and outdated. People can be born gay, lesbian or transsexual. It is not deviant to them because it is part of their genetic makeup. Similarly, you can’t influence a straight person to be gay, and you can change a gay person to be straight.
I mean, you can’t change a gay person to be straight. They can pretend to be straight, but perhaps only they’ll know for themselves who they’re truly attracted to.
Congratulations & Best Wishes to you and your team. May AWARE continues its good work.
Fully agree with post #6 Karen Teoh, on the rowdyness in UK parliament proceedings
Having lived & worked a number of years in UK, I cannot helped but noticed one great difference – the Aware EOGM was a good place for letting out pent up feelings; in the UK proceedings, there is allocated times for both sides to speak, and then the noise level can be cranked up after each speech to booing or cheering or both to one’s heart content
But watching the video replays of the said EOGM, civil society is only in its infancy in Singapore – perhaps desparate times may require desparate meaures – when one feels that one’s turf is threatened, and everything else goes to the wind in full public exposure..
Still as post # 6, says, the time revelled saying “Action Speaks Louder Than Words” …………….will henceforth be the writing on the wall.
Thank you all netizens for the excitement over the last few weeks.
3) Alex on May 4th, 2009 11.38 pm
11) gemami on May 5th, 2009 8.46 am
I agree that the actions of the supporters of the old guards were a little over the edge but I think they were only trying to express their emotions. How do you express yourself in such a emotional environment in a controlled manner. The question we want to ask ourselves is whether we want a group of yes-man/yes-women who are afraid to express themselves due to a lack of passion or a group of emotional people who will speak their mind because of their passion?
We Singaporean are so tune to see everything in orderly form that we call it hooligan actions when a little of disorder were seen. What is wrong with a little disorder? I seriously applaud the braveness and genuineness of the women who has spoken whether through the mic or shouted aloud. For the first time I saw hope in our nations civil rights. The reasons for such a display of displeasure of the Formal EXCO is because their reasons for their actions were not only unacceptable but the public but their imposing of their values on others were oppressing. It is almost like the supporters were fighting for their freedom to be who they want to be.
Many expressed that they were disappointed as that they were expecting to hear both sides to present their points. Are you serious? Haven’t you been following the news? Most of us expect noting more than a showdown and you are hoping to see a controlled presentation. The EOGM was called to throw the Formal EXCO out of power, plainly put. Do you really expect them to stay calm and show you a movie and a pointpoint presentation to prove themselves. Emotions have been aroused since the whole saga started and people are only waiting to question the single-sided value system that the Formal EXCO try to impose on AWARE. When you criticise something be ready to be criticised too. This is exactly what happened.
16) The Watchman on May 5th, 2009 10.44 am
“Dana, you were illegally and unconstitutionally elected.”
Watchman…. you also have to look at the organization constitution. It come first, and if there are any uncovered issues, it will go to the ROS law. Please check you fact first. I know because I have had experience setting up an organization, I prepared the constitution myself.
17) patriot on May 5th, 2009 11.33 am
“Other sexuality variants are for the adventurous, most will be short term experimental fads and not lasting relationships.”
Patriot, you are making a big sweeping statement, I know many your so-called “other sexuality variants” and they have been together for many many years. You assumptions are not true. Can you substantiate by giving statistics?
“Knowledge is good, freedom is good but ultimately they should not be misused and abused. Let everybody justifies their actions and deeds.”
I am disturbed by your above statement. If knowledge and freedom should not be misused, are you suggesting that we withhold it from the public or our children. Since the beginning to now, knowledge and freedom has always been things that people fought for with their life. Do you rather live in a world that is built on lies and illusion? The reason for shielding you from the truth is that you might misuse it and hurt yourself. Or do you rather face the truth and decide your lifestyle based on the eduction and value systems that you have been taught.
Patriot, how do you explain misuse of freedom. When freedom is given, one can decide what they want to do with it. There are no such thing as misuse of freedom. the only time a person misuse the freedom given is when he is not given true freedom. He is like a dog with a leash … he can only have limited freedom. Patriot, you idea of freedom is so not freedom. Limited freedom is not freedom. Just like half truth is not truth at all.
I certainly hope Singaporean can be as engaging as this whole saga in areas like politics and freedom in Singapore.
Congrats AWARE. Continue your good work.
to alex, i feel sorry for your children that they are still under your control at an age whereby they should be receiving tertiary education and be informed of the happenings around the world. it is definitely sad to see our younger generation who after receiving a tertiary education still remain uninformed and look for standard answers in textbooks.
anyway you must know the context and reasons for the high emotions displayed during the EOGM. people were there to kick the josie team out of power. they were not there to listen to josie talk about the past achievements of Aware, when they were not even part of those achievements. anyway josie and team were given lots of opportunities to explain their position. they held their own press conference and also had a wonderful time being interviewed by CNA. however, time and again, they only give uncertain replies, and were so incoherent.
i feel regretful to you that you did not read up more on what is happening for this issue before going to the EOGM. you had plenty of opportunities to read all these online on TOC, facebook, the media, the websites, etc etc. i think most people who went there did not go there expecting to hear stories from both sides, as the information is widely available on the internet.
finally, i feel, it is sad that you are used to the “shut up and sit down” behaviour we have been programmed to adhere to. only people who believe in authoritarian control will believe in “shut up and sit down” behaviour.
now that the issue is finally resolved, i hope that you can take your time to read through the various information available on the net, and catch up on these. being informed will help you in understanding the issue, and save others the trouble of explaining to you.
thank you.
I am really prompted to voice my opinion after having read some of the comments here. It seems that some people have the biased opinion that homosexuals are out just to “experiment themselves and their relationships never last long”.
I am not sure what do you mean exactly by the word “long”, as I can’t compare myself to those couples who have toegther longer (such as 50 years together) but I have been with my partner since 25 years together. And I am very glad that we were able to register our partnership together since 2 years now. Why? Not only is it a show of our love and committment for each other, but, it is a form of protection to my partner: if either one of us is sick and hospitalised, either one of us has the right to visit him in the hospital; in the event that one party passes away, the other can inherit and not left hanging there.
I understand that Singapore is a relatively conservative country, and I am not here to push nor “promote” homosexuality as some of you constantly believe in, but do at least make the effort to properly research and understand homosexuality, and not just brush it with a biased opinion without any proper understanding.
Also, do not live in a bubble world.
My take on the old exco’s winning votes, is receiving no clap from me.
To me, bad people are usually more suspicious, more sensitive, more defensive and ever ready to war.
When one did not do anything bad, one don’t need to be suspicious of other people’s intent when others haven’t even lift a finger, simply rising an eyebrow will set an evil- heart on its nerves.
Bad people also tends to over-react whenever there is a slight sniff of rat, they are ever prepared with loads of defensive gears and also ready to start a war anytime should they feel that their position is in any form of threat.
The good always believe that it is never too late to fight back a justice. Never in a need of hurry to proof anything, the truth will be out. The good sometimes have to tolerate bullies until the right day comes, and if the right day will never come, at least the soul is at peace with its dignity.
All the new members who have joined recently just to add up to the vote digits are good for head counting only? What are they going to contribute to the society after the EGM? Before this saga, where are they? Why didn’t they join AWARE if they have true interest to work on woman issues here?
‘Civility’ is no pre-requisite for ‘civil society’, but a vibrant arena for the open exchange of views and opinions is — no matter how emotionally-charged. Perhaps we’ve witnessed a coming-of-age here. I’d like to extend my warmest congratulations to Dana and the team at Aware. The organisation has come a long way from its inception, and I know they can only make further progress now the ethos has been restored.
28) Joel Low on May 5th, 2009 5.41 pm “Do you really expect them to stay calm and show you a movie and a pointpoint presentation to prove themselves”
To those with views like Alex,
If someone secretly sneaks into your house you have been staying for the past 25 years, tie up you and your family, drove you down Lim Chu Kang cemetery and dump you there, and when your neighbour tries to contact the police they bind them up as well, and when you manage find your way back home with your kids all crying and hungry, will you speak nicely to the person over a cup of tea,” Hi may I know why you come and stay in my house?”
Especially when those people mock at you, ” Who ask you not to put more alarms and locks? It is your fault your house get broken into.” Especially when those people lied, ” Oh we dun know each other, just happen to pass by at the same time.” Especially when after negotiation they say, “The house is now ours but you are still welcome” and after that change all the locks? And when you go back home they shout at you, “SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN!”
If a person has substance, others will listen enthusiatically . If a person has no substance but yet is warm and friendly and has good morals, perhaps others might listen to show him respect. If a person has totally no substance and disqualify himself due to all his cheating, lying, slandering, spreading rumors etc, will you bother to listen to him?
Nevertheless, what’s good and what’s bad can be subjective depending on each and every individual perception and beliefs. I am not imposing what I thought to anyone, I am just airing out my views on this friendly online panel.
Now, about the supporters of the old exco, I do wonder if anyone find it scary from the way they have behaved at the EGM and all the other things they did prior to 2 May? Things such as death threats, loud and nasty online bashing against Josie & team, boycotting DBS, names-calling, votes-buying, shouting and bawling at the EGM…, if AWARE is going to be made up of members who do not appreciate cordiality and manners, I do not think AWARE is earning any respect.
Dana.
OK you got voted in , but your team is now tainted by the howling mob of hooligans, who voted for you.
Regrettably, you have to rebuild AWARE’s reputation from scratch.
As it is now public info that AWARE allowed themselves to be hijacked by gay activists during the last few years, nobody will trust any of AWARE’s programs in future.
Guilty until you people prove yourself innocent again..
Totally agreed with Tua Sian Hokkien Pain @32)
If AWARE is going to be made up of members that behave like hooligans towards whom they deemed as opponents, then it deserve no respect. It will not be setting good example to the young people in the schools who will be receiving some programs from AWARE.
Having a vote in their hand, they have a chance and the right to dictate who they want to support, why the need to boo and bawl at? Only to show to the public that they cannot manage their behavior, can’t control anger, has no EQ?
If AWARE is professional, they ought to have integrity & social responsibility in terms of what they are showing and demonstrating to the public.
Please give those women a break…. if you notice Singapore is in it’s infancy in civil democracy in this capacity. It is like there are so much that they are holding back for a long time …. Imagine all it letting out at the same time. This is a turning point for Singapore.
32) Jaunty Jabber on May 5th, 2009 10.06 pm
31) Tua Sian Hokkien Pain on May 5th, 2009 9.52 pm
Obviously, both of you are birds of the same feather who are easily intimidated by a little disorder. I have seen worse in a church service…. people shouting at … god know who…. I bet both of you have never go to soccer matches….
They are not hooligan, they are people with passion which obviously both of you lack. They are not afraid to express themselves, which you both are not afraid to be afraid. You call them hooligans but deep inside you both wished you could have half of their guts …. admit it. The more you criticise the more you prove that I am right.
When Josie takes, AWARE shakes and called it a hijack.
On Josie’s stage, no one gave her break but only all the yawp & jeer.
When Josie take, AWARE shakes. What does this show? It just show how powerful she is, she just need to merely put her foot in, haven’t even do anything, the whole AWARE old exco & their supporters shake as if there is an earthquake.
When Josie & team was at the EGM stage, supporters of old exco gave no moment of peace, only with loud noises and holler. What does this show? Enough said.
To Wei Leong @33)
You gave a bad example by using a story of someone robbed your house which you have stayed for 25 years. Come on, if that really happen, do not care if you have stayed in that house for 25 hours or 25 years, installed all the theft prevention gears, be alert, be sure not to open your door to unfamiliar people. If you have not put up all the safety precautions to protect your house, blame no one.
What a letdown, a real hollow uncivilised victory, lousy hooligans behaviours of old guards of AWARE, now using the media to cover it up with words like passionate and emotional and civil, what a joke, my support for AWARE takes a U-turn, why don’t just be civilised and no need to behave so badly jeering and booing to shout down opposition, simply out vote them quietly in a civilised manner and you win the people support, now everybody knows what a bunch of hooligans past members and supporters of AWARE are, I give up ………………. i believe more and more people will criticise this hollow victory and view differently all the 1400 + people who voted that day, a real letdown and disgrace.
Wahaha 37) Joel Low
You are hilarious!!
In this space of free speech, we have the rights to use some nouns which we deemed fit to describe what we feel about so long as we remain not to become like hooligans at the EGM.
I see that you are craving for some acknowledgement that you are right. Okay lah, so you are right lor. Continue to believe that whatever you have said are right and all my comments are wrong. Dream on, the time is yours, the dream is yours too, you shall continue. You can’t stop others and you can’t erase other people’s view and comment but you can do anything you want for yourself. Whatever you can do, is solely and only on yourself. My choice of words, my comment, is not within your control, unless you have a blog and I jab there, you can remove me.
I will continue with my jabbers, even if some of the jabbers may irritates you.
I have a suggestion for you, in fact you could simply pretend that you never see any of my comment at all, is your choice, you have the control of your mind to choose what to read and what to forget. Right ? Smile.
Joel Low ,
I saw you cowering and hiding beneath the skirts and cheongsum and sarongs on that day. Take a look at one of the pictures. You looked so pathetic.
Dear Joel,
I respect your take on the situation but I would like to reiterate a point or two. You asked; “ How do you express yourself in such a emotional environment in a controlled manner?”.
I have a whole hosts of answer to this statement but I will limit it to just this. We have from the old AWARE, past presidents who were NMPs, who are able to articulate an argument in a civil manner, who upholds civic-mindedness when addressing issues of concern, who have dealt with politicians, businessmen and major interest group figureheads from all over the world, who have the disposition to debate a cause in a civil manner. These are vastly experienced women and who would surely know how to behave and conduct themselves, and a situation such as the EGM, in a civil manner and with full EGM decorum.
They failed miserably in this when they allowed their supporters to dictate the flow of the EGM with utter disrespect for the EGM, not least the Chair of the EGM. It is interesting for the old guard to take note that it now has, within AWARE, a large following of members who are not afraid to behave riotously when they deem it necessary for them to behave so in the future.
Another point I would like to make. Josie’s exco and the old guards had 2-3 weeks to prepare for the EGM. Apparently, Josie’s team were the ones who approach the EGM with dignity and full respect for the EGM decorum. The old guards, however, after the same number of weeks in preparation, unfortunately, cannot hold a candle to the behaviour of Josie and her team. This is the sad fact.
Josie and her team did no one any favour when they took office very underhandedly. Likewise, the old guards and their supporters did no one any favour with the manner of their takeover with such brutal force, which I liken to a mass-persecution in order to win.
38) Jaunty Jabber on May 5th, 2009 11.07 pm
Hi Jabby, good to hear from you again. Had a good rest?
Jabby, Gemami and Letdown
Well, we live and we learn don’t we? Didn’t Josie, her FM and their supporters teach us that the ends justify the means? I suppose the new old Guard could also have tried to use stealth and stab your back tactics but then again, its not in their nature to do so. Actually I prefer open hostility to smile-to-your-face-and-stab-your-back tactics.
Although posters like Jabby are unimpressed with the truth, the fact is, the new old Guard did not create the commotion. In fact they tried to keep it calm and pacified their supporters many times. So again to blame them is yet another piece of disinformation from these extremist cockroaches.
And yes the crowd was rowdy. I was there. But no violence erupted. No chairs were thrown. Most importantly and what is being glossed over by all the FM’s apologists here, is that the voting process was absolutely unimpeachable. So Josie’s camp lost in a democratic vote whatever the heckling was. So, again to borrow a tactic that was used for the AGM, please don’t be sore losers, eating sour grapes and can you move on and stop whining?
I only have one thing to say. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS :) Once they have made up their minds on something, they are not going change them with any amount of reasoning, no matter how flawed or illogical their views are.
43) HT on May 6th, 2009 10.44 am
38) Jaunty Jabber on May 5th, 2009 11.07 pm
if you want another view of the matter, you can see Siew Kum Hong’s article on the other thread.
You know, the meeting started off well enough when Lois “Lane” Ng welcomed everyone and made some general announcements. But when they insisted the mikes remained off (so that no one could raise any point which by the way is legally allowed in meetings) and tried to eject members, and the pivotal point was when dear Sally shouted “Shut Up and Sit Down” (btw “ShutUp and Sitdown” T-shirts are for sale now)…uh oh…so we were supposed to remain polite and offer them cups of tea when they are trying to shove their weight around? Nice try.
And Gemami, what brutal force? Mass persecution? Nobody was forced to vote in a certain way were they? Didn’t see anyone get roughed up. Josie got over 700 votes, right? Her supporters did speak up – one man was really bizarre – “I’m only man, don’t harass me..” Where is the persecution? You mean, being heckled and jeered is persecution? Well, if they can’t take the heat, they should have stayed out of the kitchen.
Dear HT,
I am well. Thanks.
Actually, most of the comments on the much disgusted jeering crowd was referring to the “supporters of the old guards”, not the “old exco members” themselves. Thus, no one has said that the old new guard created the commotion.
Open and direct approaches do not equal to hostility is okay, basic manners and respect for others is still most appropriate.
Back-stabbing? This is a feeling or perception that develops in someone’s mind when he or she feels that the people or system have somehow worked against their wish, .Whether there is really a back-stabbing or not, no one knows. No one can investigate on the inner feelings of others. Whatever we discussed here are based on things we saw and information we got, we cannot verify, we could only voice out our thoughts based on these.
46) Jaunty Jabber on May 6th, 2009 11.07 am
” Thus, no one has said that the old new guard created the commotion.”
But Jabby, “#39) Letdown on May 5th, 2009 11.18 pm “lousy hooligans behaviours of old guards of AWARE”" which is the post immediately after yours contradicts what you just said…Come on, Jabby, Letdown is entitled to his opinion, no matter how stupid. Don’t just dismiss Letdown as “no one”. That’s not fair and he will really feel letdown.
“Open and direct approaches do not equal to hostility is okay, basic manners and respect for others is still most appropriate.”
Yeah well, the crowd’s responses were certain open and direct. They let Josie know as members, how they felt. And look, nobody called Josie or Maureen etc names. No one shouted obscenities. You think it was rude and hostile? I don’t… but its legal…move on.
“Back-stabbing? This is a feeling or perception that develops in someone’s mind when he or she feels that the people or system have somehow worked against their wish, .Whether there is really a back-stabbing or not, no one knows.”
hehe..that’s right. Being bullied when the system has somehow worked against FM etc is also a perception, isn’t it? But being outvoted is a cold hard fact. Come on, its legal. Right? Move on.
I serious;y we have to change our mind set. A little disorder, as long as …. no violence, no breaking of law, no one is hurt …. is acceptable. Why do we have the mentality that civility means everybody siting down calmly and orderly waiting foe their turns to speak. We have to come out of that idealistic, unreal, untrue view in our mind. As mentioned by HT…. no violence erupted.
Of course, everyone prefer a calm and controlled environment but in this case it is not realistic to expect that in the EOGM.
You all must understand that Josie and her gang has made their public explanation for their actions and what they stand for and that has created public outrage in majority of the women in Singapore. Firstly they viewed their action of takeover as hostile and secondly their narrow perceptions discriminate others other than their faith. Josie and her gang continual actions,words and lies added fire to that already heated up feeling towards them.
Most of them do not want to hear their lies anymore. They just want them to stop making excuses for their actions. They find the accusations against the AWARE CSE and directions are false and it has been blown out of proportion. So what is there left to say from them?
When you know someone has been lying and is probably going to lie in your face are you going to sit calmly and listen to him? No way!!! They are throwing back what Josie and gang a piece of what they having been doing. If I am in the wrong, I will not act like the old guards supporters, I will act calm and make sure I look at the victim so that I can deceive some people to support me. Playing with emotions of people again.
The reason Josie and gang received so much negative comments be it in the net or there at the EOGM only proves that their ideas and actions are not acceptable by many. They really have to evaluate their actions and stop claiming they have done nothing wrong.
If the destination is more important than journey than we have lost the motivation to live….. we are all going to die anyway.
Well HT, you are entitled to your opinion while I am entitled to mine.
It is about the right time to disclose the answers to some of the questions that were asked of me in the course of this exchange, whether in this thread or the others.
Firstly, I am not from the COOS. Never heard of it until this saga. Never heard of Josie or anyone else from the old-new-exco. Never heard of Pastor Daring Hong.
Next, I have never heard of Constance Singgum, Breadma Mati or Dana Croft before this saga either. The only AWARE member I have ever heard of before this was Kalwanjit Soy.
I am a Christian but I was ashame of the un-Christian acts committed by Josie and friends.
I have loads of friends who are homosexuals, transsexuals/transgenders as well as those who live the alternative sexual lifestyle. I have made it very clear to them that I, as a Christian, cannot condone their lifestyles. They are able to accept this. Neither would I imposed my lifestyle on them nor will I influence their choice.
I was initially on Josie’s side for the simple reason that all the opinions that were being thrown about were nothing more than hearsays and speculations. When the real reasons behind the takeover were made known by the FM, I cannot continue to support them because it will be utterly wrong to do so and against the values I personally uphold.
On the other hand, I could not support the old guards because, firstly, they were partly to blame for this whole saga. They were too complacent. Secondly, my Christian background does not entitle me support the program that was under contention – even as I do support some of the other programmes under the wings of AWARE.
I am not inviting a debate on religion because when one talks about religion, it must be clear that religion cannot be understood and comprehended by non-believers in writings alone. It takes years of reading the Scriptures and years of reflections to understand religion. This cannot be done over a discourse platform such as TOC, and it is this reason that I never did touch on the debate on religion throughout this saga – even though I have been called names which I understood to be a provocation to get my opinions in writings.
I have already wished the new-old-guards well and my comments on this saga ends here as well as in the other ‘Siew’ thread.
Thank you one and all for your sharing, your humour, the insanity and the well-argued viewpoints from some. It has been a pleasure, an eye-opener and I am taking the positives away from this, leaving the negatives to return to the dust from where it came from.
the funny thing is that most of the people complaining about hooliganism were not even at the meeting.
what i heard were a lot of intellgent questions asked to josie and gang and met by incredibly dumb replies and outsourcing to Rajah and Tan to answer.. lol.
i didn’t hear a single ‘name-calling’. the only namecalling i’ve encountered so far in this is in this forum, from Watching-Man and his gang.