It is finally here. This event has been postponed for so long…

Pls send Josie and the pussy cat plus FM an official invitation! They might just attend as good PR in an exercise to mend bridges and show that they are inclusive. Here, have a pink umbrella! LOL.

Sure or not government approved? Government cannot approve alternative lifestyle OK? Protest, non-protest or photo-op, nonwithstamding. Surely someone will object. Waiting for minister to make official statement, “We do not approve”. We await with bated breath. LOL.

“Government-approved”???

sure gahment will allow? remember last time they want to hold a pink picnic at Botanical gardens? last minute also kena from gahment – no allow woah.

how different will it be this time?

Its possible that this event is not illegal. But what does it mean to be approved by the government? As in they gave this event a thumbs up or endorsed it? sure or not.

Just wait for the official condemnation. I can just hear the clock ticking.

It is happening…. it is pushing the boundaries. .
They used to say, give one inch now they want a foot. Anyway, it is freedom of expression.
I wonder any live demo or not, or models, exhibition etc.Probably they come in droves, out from the closets.

Government -approved? Interesting..if they are not promoting alternative lifestyle but approved this. Maybe you meant that you have a police permit to do this?

Can’t wait to see botak Siew in pink.

(8)
Socrates was never anti-gay. In fact, Socrates always questioned mainstream conservative values, which is why ‘Right-minded’ people like you put him to death for questioning too much. could you please switch to using Plato? Plato would put everyone who’s different to death – artists, gays, poets. That certainly more of your line.

This is the problem with the GLBT community. Give them an inch, they take a yard. Coming at the wake of the AWARE saga, and with so many underlying issues still unresolved, this group of displaced individuals are taking advantage of the current hype to push their space. Lest we forget, enlarging your space is tantamount to encroaching on the space of another. “You push too hard, the other side will pushes back”.

While I am at it, and since there seem to be nothing else to talk about in TOC these days, I might as well remind those who may consider attending the pink party to think about the possibility of contracting HIV.

Here we go again! Come and get me folks!

Another thing, pink is a mixture of white and red. Being Asian, we are more brown and yellow than it is red and white. So it should be a Golden Party, don’t you think?

It’s an ‘approved’ event in so far as public outdoor gatherings, speeches, etc involving Singaporeans in Hong Lim Park (as part of ‘Speakers Corner’) are now government ‘approved’ or ‘authorised’ or ’sanctioned’. This event is 100% legal and participants do not need to fear that they are breaking the law, will get into trouble, etc.

Having said that, being ‘approved’ is different from being ’supported’ or ‘promoted’ or even ‘endorsed.’ Hope to see many of you there, regardless of your gender or sexuality.

I wondered how many gays are there in Parliament….

(12)
Do you mean heterosexuals don’t get HIV from heterosexuals? May I remind all the chee ko pek out there not to frequent Batam, Geylang, Phuket, Bangkok, Joo Chiat to think about the possibility of contracting HIV too? (esp Watch-man)

“This pink dot is a celebration of diversity and equality, and a symbol of Singapore’s more inclusive future.”

Pink dot is a celebrating of diversity and equality ?? see how it contradicts itself ? siao ah ?? if it is to celebrate diversity, why only pink colour huh? and why only gays, lesbians go ?

If it it so celebrate diversity and equality, i have another event that truly celebrate this. It is held on 9th August every year. Make sure everyone remember to come , ok ??

(15)
who says only gays and lesbians go? everyone who’s not a bigot will go.. lol.

National day parade, chinese, malays, indians, ang-mohs, gays, christians, muslims, lesbians, anti-gays, old aware, new aware. gemami, eh, joe, socrates, modernist, etc… all come together and recite national day pledge. .. more real and appropriate to celebrate diversity, right ?

All supporters of gays and lesbians go to pink dot in the name of celebrating diversity. aiyo… want to bluff also bluff properly, lah…

It is better for the gay community to promote their agenda in the open, and Hong Lim Park is a good venue to start. I hope they will follow up with a permit to campaign in HDB heartlands.

Only way for the gay community to find out where they stand with the rest who have a stake in this little red dot.
Will there be space for a pink dot inside our little red dot ?

(17)
how come u write as though holding pink dot = no national day? I dun understand your logic

Ladies and gentlemen,

May I present you exhibit eh post #17.

Let me show you yet another fine example of “putting words in one’s mouth”

thank you

I will go and take some pictures for my Facebook.

11 eh) Dont get confused and upset. I am not the same Socrates who lived many years ago. It is spelled with a small s . Different person lah..not so clever as the other one..

Will Damien Siow be the guest-of-honour?

15) eh on May 7th, 2009 12.38 pm

“who says only gays and lesbians go? everyone who’s not a bigot will go.. lol.”

The sweet irony is that if all the mainstream values turn up, they will relegate the GLBTs to the fringe of Hong Lim Park. Then they will truly and rightfully be called the fringe lunatics. So much for your logic, eh or should I laugh sarcastically and say heh heh?

On May 16 it may be called a Pink Dot and then later as the stomach turns, it will be called a Gay Parade on Orchard Road replete with an all gay jazz band, a Drag Queen beauty contest and a Gay Sex Bare-Backing lucky draw contest.

OMG, looks like the gender identity war has just started. Will the last person to leave Hong Lim Park please don’t switch off the lights!

What about pink condom? Are they distributing these pink condoms to save lives?

Approved, permitted by the Authority ? ?

Like to hear it from the Government.

patriot

Gemami,

“This is the problem with the GLBT community. Give them an inch, they take a yard.”

Are you saying GLBT community do not even have the right to freedom of assembly? If the answer is ‘yes’, isn’t it pretty clear that what you guys are advocating is no so much the preservation of ‘morals’ but really, the drowning out of the voice of a group of people whose lifestyle and views you disagree with?

It’s interesting you used the words ‘displaced individuals’ with so much pride, really. If you had a choice, they’d be exiled to pulau something, no?

Lol. post (17) is yours.
Of course you can’t be the same. But I won’t use Jesus. So kindly stop using Socrates.

Just as there is a encouragement for people to attend the pink dot parade, i will be the counter voice and encourage people not to attend the parade.

Why ?
Coming soon after MOE’s annoucement / stand on the CSE, the parade is nothing more but to advocate gay rights. So it is not about about diversity and equality. If you couched anything as advocating “diversity and equality”, sure everyone will agree to these values. But the truth is that it is about propagating gay rights. So don’t be fooled by the semantics.

Even if there is a big pink crowd on that day, it doesn’t mean anything. It just means that there are alot of people out there who are believe in gay rights. I don’t need a parade to tell me this. Just by reading TOC comments, i already know there is a big group out there.

Ah joe, I see where you are coming from.

You don’t think gays deserve rights.

come on lah people, teach me leh.

Socrates is related to which religion ? I really dun know leh.

My last post is under moderation probably because the word “religion” is used. But i want to know for general knowledge. Can help me or not?

(31)
Nope. We don’t encourage aggressive takeovers or evangelism. Only the selected are chosen to be initiated. You failed.

wah lau, another one putting words in me mouth.

i am saying articulating the real intent of the parade..

(33) then articulate better. take some language classes.

(33)
and you haven’t explained the relationship between national day and pink dot. what’s the relationship?

Let me see. I think I am going to the pink parade. I am going to bring my little doggie with me and I am going to cover him all pink. A pink Dog in a pink dot. Sounds good?

(25)

Watchman, i’m liking you more. thanks for your concern. You are welcome to sponsor. Pink oso can. Red oso can. Blue oso can. Watever colour la. doesn’t matter.

(37)
Lol very creative. but i think you should check with SPCA first.

drinking pink dolphin, Germami ? LOL !

#27) Zefly,

Some of us here – normal people – feel more displaced than these truly displaced people.

16 May Hong Lim Park. Deja vu.

Looks like a repeat of the AWARE EOGM at Suntec City.

The same old crowd.
Won’t be surprised if there are 1414 women going (plus a few hundred men, including Siew Kum Hong of course).

As long as our schools are out-of-bounds.

help me out here,guys or gals who understand me…. how to explain to eh about my post regarding national day being more representative of diversity and equality.

I

(43)
but what’s the comparison? I don’t understand. Why does it mean if you have national day you cannot have pink dot? Why can only have either one? Huh?

Joe, as a matter of fact, yes, I am drinking pink dolphin. What’s more, I am going to bring my pink ribbons with me, have 4 of them. Thought it might be good to kill two birds with one stone – a pink dog to protest the parade and pink ribbons to support breast cancer.

Come on Gemami, how can heterosexuals feel more displaced? you are the majority for goodness sake.

you guys petition to keep gays as criminals, and try to deprive them of legitimate work in civil service. who’s displacing who?

Joe, no need to explain lah. We are all knotted up with laughter already. Hey! TOC, got better articles to talk about or not?

“Some of us here – normal people – feel more displaced than these truly displaced people.”

That’s because you don’t know what sharing is. I can’t help you if you feel offended by gays or gay displaying their behavior openly. What you really want is a world that doesn’t offend you, or at least the things that offends you are kept away.

Dude, many people don’t like a lot of people they see on the train either. But they respect the right of those people to be on the same train as they are. They just live and let live. Deal with it.

Ok.

Maybe this way easier to understand:

If you are pro-gay and the lifestye, then go to pink dot parade. wear pink glasses, underwear, bra, umbrellas, etc. and go go go go to pink dot. I am not stopping you. Go, go go. i say again

But if you are truly for diversity, equaltiy, then wait for 9th of August parade.

Don’t mix the 2 up.

Sigh….

And Zefly, no one is denying them the right to assemble. It’s all about timing, my friend. The message is very clear with the assembly coming hot on the high-heels of recent events … wait a minute … did I say heels or high-heels?

how about talking about the coach of the year business….

this one more fun..

homos and gays, no more fun already…

oops, sorry, lest i get misquoted and misunderstood again, ” the topic of homos and gays is not more fun” whether they are fun or not is another whole new topic.. (i just can’t resist saying that, sorry.. all in good humor, fellas, all in good humour

(48)

ya lor. during national day i oso see many people i dun like, but i never tell them to sit down and shut up, or shut up and sit down. but why i tok abt national day, it’s nothing to do with pink dot. nothing wat. aiyoh.

Yup Zefly, and my gay friends behind me now are slapping my head. I think fellas like you are more passionate than the gays themselves. Anyway, it’s a tired chap talking – half drunk even – with pink dolphins.

I’m surprised the Thios haven’t lodge a complain yet, or maybe they are coming up with a petition titled “stop gay rights advancement in parks”!

(49)

it’s about equality- why not? why? homos are not humans? not citizen? dun pay tax meh? so why do we treat them differently?

diversity – oso wat. there are heterosexuals, there are homosexuals. there are hermaphrodites and there are transsexuals. can we stop pretending there are only heterosexuals around?

seriously, talk about coach lah…

this one getting no where..

but it certainly relieves the tension in the past few days.

thanks to eh and co.. life is abit easier if all of us can laugh at ourselves or others (!) once in a while..

OK guys, I have been talking nonsense here, don’t be offended lah. I love gays and I am very gay that their voice have a place in society. I am gay for them that there are people standing up for them too. Good job you guys. Enough already. Have to go for my meeting now. Catch up later.

wah. im enjoying it. i cannot say all these at school cos they say must respect elders…. lol.

44) gemami on May 7th, 2009 1.55 pm

“Joe, as a matter of fact, yes, I am drinking pink dolphin. What’s more, I am going to bring my pink ribbons with me, have 4 of them. Thought it might be good to kill two birds with one stone – a pink dog to protest the parade and pink ribbons to support breast cancer.”

Please don’t forget to bring along Zefly and eh’s pink elephant too lest they feel inferior and discriminated.

And lets remind those with pink Kaposi’s sarcomas, please expose your chest for all to see, since it is a pink day.

Are you sure this meeting is bona fide. Wait you go there there is a group of people waiting to stamp yr forehead with a pink triangle and then insert in yr IC something to identify you as a pinky. Then how? It’s a ploy to round all the faggots and lesbos. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I don’t really understand the point of this gathering. The purpose is to show support for the freedom of LGBT people to love. In the first place, LGBT people do have the freedom to love whoever they love, except perhaps they may not be able to show it publicly in our rather conservative society. So what is the point in having this gathering beyond creating more publicity for the LGBT people? Does this gathering achieve anything useful?

Hi Maverick,

Really? Section 377A still exists while MHA refuses to register Alex Au’s People Like US as an official society. There is no promotion of any life style. This is also not public display of affection. It is just people standing up for their beliefs.

Pink triangle? Thank goodness you did not say pink dot on the forehead. The Hindus will come for your throat.

Maverick, you still don’t get it do you? In order to understand the LGBTs, you have to first learn how to understand without understanding. If you can understand this, then you will surely understand them. Understand?

Interesting.

“Government approved” Pink Dot???
like that..how… Gay Parade during Ching Gay…Approve or not?

(61)
Maverick, imagine if heterosexual acts of sex are crimes, and different sex marriages are illegal. Then throw in people who are vehement about heterosexuals publicly and petition against them, and who preach regularly that heterosexuals should repent and go gay. Will you feel less worthy as a person, feel that you cannot face the world and your loved ones because you are an ‘abnormality’?

I’m not even sure if our society is largely conservative or we just have a very vocal conservative minority and a bo chap majority that this minority likes to speak on behalf of.

Hi smallvice585,

I believe it will be difficult to criminalise anyone under section 377A, so I am not sure if this section is any deterrent to what LGBT wants to do in private. The refusal of MHA to register Alex Au’s society is a reflection of the conservative nature of Singapore society, which is the reality and something which the LGBT have to accept. The lack of an official society does not deprive LGBT of doing anything it wants to do in private and does not restrict their freedom to love whoever they want.

This LGBT community is slowly pushing the boundaries but they cannot complain if there is a corresponding pushback from the conservative element in Singapore society. Right now, there is a sort of balance (maybe imperfect from the LGBT’s point of view) but if the balance is tilted in anyway, there will be a response from the other party.

gemami,

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say. It is true that I may not understand the LGBT because I am not one of them, in the same way that it may be difficult for the LGBT to understand why conservative people react to them in the way they do.

We need to get the SWAT Team there to hose some sense in these chaps.

Maverick,

It means this. They are seeking understanding from people who they know will never understand them. No, they are not seeking understanding. They are demanding understanding for the way they are.

9 A Police Permit must be obtained if permanent residents of Singapore are speaking or organising a demonstration or if foreigners are speaking or participating in or organising activities at Speakers’ Corner, Hong Lim Park.

So my foreign colleague can’t participate!
I never knew about this, but it smacks of shame.

all inclusive society?

Hong Lim Park , Bugis Street , Changi Point , whatever, you are welcome only never, never In schools.

The Church’s Sunday Congregation is held indoors right? Any congregation that is held indoors does not need a permit I believe, whether or not you are a registered society.

I guess the purpose is to create awareness
and promote LGBT. Govt will not promote
alternative lifestyles. So they have to make plenty
noise to catch attention and try to get
respect from mainstream. It is a tough call.

Neither do I support or against Gay Movement.

Basic Human Rights if your action does not cause harm to others than it is OK.

Singapore as a Secular Society should separate clearly between Religion, Business and Political.

Never believe in MarketPlace Network! As a businessman your God come first but the Business.

If you are so kind than don’t retrenched ppls and take the Job Credit!

I wish people like TrueBlood Singaporean would grace us with improved grammar so we may understand their beneficient views. Bad grammar grates on people and impedes understanding.

Nonetheless I think a pink dot is a creatively whimsical idea. Agree with 69) smallvice585; especially in the case of the fakely repentant Derek Hong? Gosh I think the steeplejacking was really quasiseditious.

WILL YALL PEOPLE GET IT IN YOUR HEADS ALREADY, HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A LIFESTYLE.

“40) gemami on May 7th, 2009 1.51 pm

#27) Zefly,

Some of us here – normal people – feel more displaced than these truly displaced people.”

“66) gemami

Maverick,

It means this. They are seeking understanding from people who they know will never understand them. No, they are not seeking understanding. They are demanding understanding for the way they are.”

’some of us’?…’people who they know will never understand them’?

This sounds like you are referring to the whole heterosexual population. Please don’t speak for people who aren’t as closed minded as you and your ilk.

It jux seems like smallvice likes to attack religion although it is not even involve in dis LGBT shyt.. r u still suffering from the AWARE aftermath??

61) smallvice585 on May 7th, 2009 4.15 pm ,
if you repeal 377A it will like the 7th ghost month when hell gate is open and you see them at every corner, nook and crevice, in the mrt , in the heartland staircase, lifts and children playground, so How? Now , you understand why 377A is in tact. No need to enforce if they behave. They can be gay and lesbian so long they don’t embarrass and cause confusion and send wrong signals to the young..
smallvice , you can entertain them as their partner the police won’t know if you have in private… and shut up and sit down and don’t mention those christian right
bogeyman crap..

Ya abit concerned here too that we may be too liberal here.

The Aware saga has proven that.

Anyway in Sydney, gay marriages are legal and they have Gay Parade (Mardi Gras) yearly and it is an international event that attracted thousands to the streets in celebration. Sydney is laike the second gay city after San Fransciso.

I am not against gays or lesbians and have friends of alternative lifestyle but it is another matter if authorities throw their apporval at their lifestyle.

First the IRs then now this.

Sometimes I wonder if we have gone too liberal too fast?

wah lau smallvice… not like that lah.. nobody is attacking any religion. Why bring in christian right? Not fair lah..

People are just saying no need for pink dot parade. No one say cannot be gay. Want to be gay, go and be gay and happy. but no need pink parade

Aware is hilarious, whats the difference when a group of gays take over a group of Christians?

Anyways i believe we can expect a government response on this matter soon…

Another inch you give, they will take a KM! Winning at AWARE does not means gay moment had won.

What joke, other religious org had not said anything wat!

i agree joe!

I never Support Christian, Muslim or any Religious Right Movement! It should keep in the private space rather than the secular space.

Religion is like blind love, it can’t be proved by science!

The Whole Europe Society had wake up and enlightened from the middle age to create the modern society.

Do Singapore want to follow others people mistake?

Wow, There is a Pink Dot event coming soon at Hong Lim Park, got to be there to enjoy myself, It has been so long without any excitement after Singapore was dropped the Malaysia Cup. I’m going there to sing Oleh Oleh Oleh Oleh, Oleh Oleh…
and I’m going to sing out loud. Shiok man

Big event, so don’t miss it.

gemami,

No one is “demanding understanding”. Nobody is forcing you to go for the event. They are just trying to raise awareness and give those people who accept gays a chance to show their support. If you persist in misunderstanding them, then don’t go. To suggest that they are “demanding” anything is just absurd.

thanks for ur concern, i’m pretty much sure of my stand in the whole thing.. jux hope dat u r not duped by the activists who r darn gd at manupulating n making use of ppl’s emotions..

I think some of u misinterpret. This event not gahmen endorsed. More like gahment permitted.

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/272927.asp

81) TrueBlood Singapore on May 7th, 2009 9.32 pm I never Support Christian, Muslim or any Religious Right Movement! It should keep in the private space rather than the secular space.

Religion is like blind love, it can’t be proved by science!

The Whole Europe Society had wake up and enlightened from the middle age to create the modern society.

Do Singapore want to follow others people mistake?

****************************************************************************
If Mainstream Singaporeans do not wish to be “enlightened”, must LGBT imposed “enlightned” onto ‘em?

Why?

for this we have Dr Thio & her mentees to thank.

this is the other side of the coin, 1 side CSE program, other side LGBT!!

will D(a)r(th) Thio be there to autograph the freebies? must respect elders mah…

^.^

Smallvice & Co,

I think that it is really foolish for the LGBT community to be holding an event like this just after the AWARE furore. It is generally a bad idea to hold a pro-LGBT Event in Singapore, but currently with everything going on it is the worst plan of action.

I expect People Like Us just wants to use the AWARE hype to its advantage. “Celebration of diversity and equality” is quite an activist stance, even if the event is not a Gay Pride March or Protest. Seriously, the LGBT community should be smarter than to hold a Pink event during this time. Not to mention, it is hosted by Fridae, the organization that the govt routinely refuses permits for Gay Pride events.

And Smallvice, the Christian Right does not exist as a coherent force in Singapore. I personally feel it better to restrain from wanton nationalism. Calling it “patriotic” to destroy any person whose views you don’t share is rather damaging to the democratic development of this country.

There is nobody peddling fear and guilt to anybody, except in your imagination. Even the Christian Right (in the West) – however loud it is – only restricts itself to protesting against Pink Advocates. For most of the Christian Right, it is still taboo to force their views on unwilling people.

After all, God did give man free choice.

So, of course, you can choose to insert “politics” into everything because it is such an ill-defined word that can be defined how you wish it to.

Sry for my ignorance.. i had never heard of Christian rights activist..

sure kenna no permit given or illegal gathering one lah. gahmen already economy headache, CSE headache; now if pple complain why got gay show, they sure jialat.

this event must have been organised to counter the anti LGBTs by some lunatic fear mongers.

“for every action, there is a reaction”

Hi m,

If you knew their existence, then they wouldn’t have steeplejacked your church or COOS.

smallvice585

Please stop repeatedly posting links to the so-called “Christian right”. They will no longer be allowed.

And also, please stick to the issue in the article, which is about the Pink Dot event at Hong Lim Park, and not about the “christian right”.

Thanks.

I think the video is quite well made, meaningful and respectful. Like someone say, the more you push, the more the resistance will push back on you. Come true liao. It is quite easy to pick up those people whose mind is so lack of love, or maybe lack of compassion. I think they are more compassionate for her/his dog than a fellow human being. 1 even make fun of HIV patients, clearly indicating that whatever in their mind is in bad shape. How to lead a good life, when they have so much anger in the head ?

i’m curious why making such statements about the “right side is wrong”

when there’s discriminatory and divisive statements being thrown at homosexuals and their lifestyle?

they can have their cake and eat it?

make whatever statements they want about others but others not allowed to say anything about them?

double standards?

Gemami #12 “This is the problem with the GLBT community. Give them an inch, they take a yard. Coming at the wake of the AWARE saga, and with so many underlying issues still unresolved, this group of displaced individuals are taking advantage of the current hype to push their space. Lest we forget, enlarging your space is tantamount to encroaching on the space of another. “You push too hard, the other side will pushes back”.

Hah! This can be equally applied to Thio, Josie & Co.

Becasue these aunties went to puruse their anti-homosexual agenda in such a public, aggressive and messy manner, Pink Dot is the LGBT counterstroke.

Gemami is on the dot: “You push too hard, the other side will push(es) back”. [Parentheses added for grammatical correctness]

Personally, I don’t care about the Pink Dot event. I am not against Homos, but I am not a ‘active’ supporter either. If they want to hold an event, let them hold it lor. I look at it like a Sunday Church service. If they want to hold it every week, I also don’t mind. This is being inclusive, right?

p.s Just don’t expect me to attend (either of them).

77) jason

I am indeed speaking on behalf of some of my closed-minded friends and ilks – are you saying you can have your pink dot and I cannot have my pink dog?

lobo76,

You are an excellent example of inclusiveness, unlike some people such as Josie’s supporters. Josie Lau herself said in an interview with The Christian Post that inclusiveness excludes controversial beliefs.

will this show singapore to the world that it is a Inclusive society?
Maybe more will migrate here?
More what?

“102) lobo76 on May 8th, 2009 9.27 am

Personally, I don’t care about the Pink Dot event. I am not against Homos, but I am not a ‘active’ supporter either. If they want to hold an event, let them hold it lor. I look at it like a Sunday Church service. If they want to hold it every week, I also don’t mind. This is being inclusive, right?

p.s Just don’t expect me to attend (either of them).”

Well said. This is probably the only comment that actually reflects the true majority thinking.

Ok back to pink dot event. Not sure if everyone is on the same page though….
Perhaps more proper to state that most people acknowledge that gays are around, and they have alternative lifestyles. But there is a substantial difference between such acknowledgement and general acceptance.
E.g. we acknowledge that there are abuse children in the society, and it does not mean we accept children being abused.
So a question may be : is approval for pink dot event a form of society acceptance ? or mere acknowledgement ? Nobody is saying that gays cannot be loved, but if we equate love to embracing their lifestyles, then I don’t think that’s right.
I am not pro-gay, and in theory, there is nothing wrong with the event. However, it’s hard to conclude that such events are not seen as gay lifestyle promotions. It willl definitely go down that line.

What if the Christian Right in Singapore attempts to hijack the PINK DOT EVENT?
Are we going to ignore the possibility and let these bigots do what they want?

Sigh, let them. Reasoning with them using logic or scientific approaches doesn’t work. Just let them do what they want.

They will go down in history as what they are.

I have friends who are gay, lesbian and bisexual. I have learnt so much from them, and I count it my blessing to have been acquainted with them. They are some of the best friends I’ve ever had. I support all the movements there are to help increase the acceptance of LGBT people, and despite all that, I have not become a homosexual myself. A lot of the fears and worries about promotion of gay lifestyle is very much based on fear of the unknown/unfamiliar. Accepting gays doesn’t mean promoting homosexuality among heterosexuals. You can’t, anyway. I’m just not lesbian and being close with my LGBT friends does not make me any bit more lesbian.

But my being a heterosexual, the fact that I have been open to LGBT people and regard them as equals, if not better than me in many ways, have opened doors for us all to engage in mutually enriching friendships. In my presence, they don’t have to ‘pretend’.

It can be very difficult for people who belong to majority groups to fathom or empathise with the pressure faced by people from minority groups. Suicides, forced “conversion”, severe self-denial, depression and mutually unfulfilling marriages are not uncommon, often a result of the intense self-hate, self-doubt and self-censureship that has been internalised by an external environment that passively or actively (like many of the comments here) sends out strong signals of rejection.

To someone who belongs in a majority group, you may think, “ah don’t be too sensitive, I’m just saying what I think, freedom of speech.” After you proudly and loudly proclaim your opinion, you walk away…have a good time with your friends and family, making occasional sarcastic jokes on LGBT, and then you get on with your life, getting worried about your work, money and the economy.

Imagine someone from a minority group, listening to your remarks, not 1, 2, but many others who make similar remarks…they have to just listen to all these in silence, they don’t even know who they can go to who’s non-judgmental. On top of that, they also have all the problems that you face too in your own lives. That’s why many LGBTs end up in deep troubles. They can’t even get the help and support they need. They can’t even briefly talk about it, because as evidenced in many of the comments here, people don’t want to hear about it. Homophobia in its worst, has seen homosexuals being killed just for being who they are. I hope Singaporeans will not downgrade to this savage and barbaric kind of mentality and behaviour.

While many GLBTs (especially the closeted ones who have never dared to be open about their own identity) have faced a lot of struggles and difficulties, their vulnerability has also paradoxically moulded many GLBTs to become very strong and outstanding individuals. Those who have managed to resolve many of the issues associated with their own identity and the lack of social acknowledgement, have evolved to become intellectually and emotionally very mature. In fact, many of my GLBT friends are much more able to accept and forgive the very people who hate them and try different means to give them a hard time, yet many heterosexuals out of own imagined fear of GLBTs just continually perpetuate fear, superstition and judgment against GLBTs.

The GLBT movements worldwide have never been about promoting GLBT lifestyles, but about gaining acceptance of GLBTs as equally human as us all. In fact, I know of more heterosexuals who try hard to convert GLBTs, without any hesitation in resorting to very inhumane and degrading approaches, much much more than GLBTs trying to convert heterosexuals. So who’s imposing on who?

I’m not trying to say that GLBTs are good and heteroseuxals are not. Among both groups there are good and bad people, good and bad behaviours. I’m also not trying to accuse anybody. What I’m trying to say is that being someone from a majority group, we need to be more sensitive to the pressure and needs of minority groups. It’s very scary for people from the majority groups begin to congratulate themselves for being discriminatory. During the Hitler’s time, nobody questioned at all his accusations at the Jews. Eventually the society even condoned and endorsed his acts of massacre.

GLBTs know that it’s impossible to get everyone to accept them, but it’s not wrong for them to obtain support from people (including heterosexuals) who are willing to give them acceptance and support. at least don’t discriminate. GIve them some space to live according to their own choice. Don’t jump every time they try to do something to help themselves.

104) smallvice585 on May 8th, 2009 9.36 am

” Josie Lau herself said in an interview with The Christian Post that inclusiveness excludes controversial beliefs.”

But not hedonistic beliefs or behavior. This is because those who live like hell will end up there.

# 105) lobo76 on May 8th, 2009 9.27 am

“Personally, I don’t care about the Pink Dot event. I am not against Homos, but I am not a ‘active’ supporter either. If they want to hold an event, let them hold it lor. I look at it like a Sunday Church service. If they want to hold it every week, I also don’t mind. This is being inclusive, right?
p.s Just don’t expect me to attend (either of them).”

Count me in, lobo76. Another vote for you. Cheers!

Hi everyone,

We’d like to remind everyone again: The article above is about the Pink Dot event.

It is not about the “christian right”, or “anal sex” or “bestiality”.

Some of your comments are bordering on the distasteful and will not be allowed.

siao liao, everyone

I say forgot pink dot and everyone go and sing mali kita on 9 Aug and truly celebrate diversity and equality.

on another matter, can you see the irony of this:

The LBGT emphasised their distinctiveness by holding a pinkdot parade and yet clamouring for equality wanting everyone to treat them the equally as everyone else. If you want to be treated as the same as everyone else, then there is no need for a parade to tout your distinctiveness.

Get the irony of holding pink dot ?

hi theonlinecitizen,

nice to see “christian right”, “anal sex” and “bestiality” all mentioned in the same light. ROFL.

Is the small cap t the same person as the big cap T?

122) gemami on May 8th, 2009 1.12 pm

“Is the small cap t the same person as the big cap T?”

I thought about that too and wonder if it could be a pink big cap T to boot?

And incidentally, doing flashy things like forming a Pink Dot is publicity stunt. Aren’t publicity stunts done for advertising purposes?

Isn’t it somewhat foolish to be advertising homosexuality in the aftermath of the AWARE spat, where tensions are still running high over homosexuality-related teaching materials?

Surely, it isn’t too late to cancel the event, is it?

Arix 122, I agree with you there is a difference between inclusiveness and celebration.
First of all, even under inclusiveness, it’s a continuum how it is handled. The first and foremost guideline would be it doesn’t send a wrong signal to impressionable young minds.
Please….. do not go down the slippery slope argument to say that e.g. the internet corrupts minds to a higher extent, and therefore we should not abandon the pink dot event.
This kind of argument (not content to content comparison) is like saying we have people who take to huge dosages of drugs, so why stop youngsters from popping in 1 ecstasy …….
The fact that we cannot exercise total control on all channels to shape young minds, cannot be taken as reason for abandoning various efforts that help.

Now back to the issue on inclusiveness.
To me, allowing gays who want to have their activities in private is already a form of inclusiveness. Remember, at the other end of the spectrum, it could be treated as crinimalised by some.

Once you go public, it is ‘pushing the boundary’. What love are they exactly looking for, such that they have to go public as a mass ? If someone non pro-gay comes along and disagrees with their lifestyles, you can hardly argue and say there is no love right away. I am not treating gays like children but please do not misuse the word love, cos as parents, we sometimes withold what our kids ask of (love may be tough) too.

In other words, inclusiveness cannot and should not function in a vacuum.

somebody ought to give smallvice the boot…

Arix 122, I agree with you there is a difference between inclusiveness and celebration.

This next portion is addressed to everyone, not just arix (sorry I left this out earlier)
First of all, even under inclusiveness, it’s a continuum how it is handled. The first and foremost guideline would be it doesn’t send a wrong signal to impressionable young minds.
Please….. do not go down the slippery slope argument to say that e.g. the internet corrupts minds to a higher extent, and therefore we should not abandon the pink dot event.
This kind of argument (not content to content comparison) is like saying we have people who take to huge dosages of drugs, so why stop youngsters from popping in 1 ecstasy …….
The fact that we cannot exercise total control on all channels to shape young minds, cannot be taken as reason for abandoning various efforts that help.

Now back to the issue on inclusiveness.
To me, allowing gays who want to have their activities in private is already a form of inclusiveness. Remember, at the other end of the spectrum, it could be treated as crinimalised by some.

Once you go public, it is ‘pushing the boundary’. What love are they exactly looking for, such that they have to go public as a mass ? If someone non pro-gay comes along and disagrees with their lifestyles, you can hardly argue and say there is no love right away. I am not treating gays like children but please do not misuse the word love, cos as parents, we sometimes withold what our kids ask of (love may be tough) too.

In other words, inclusiveness cannot and should not function in a vacuum.

There is no christian right conspiracy but it is a moral stand that is an issue and stop blaming the christian right. Its a moral standing at least for myself.

I think the churches are very vocal in this issue and thus the gays and lesbians are very angry at these people.

Also those colorful people who jump and shouted, are these lesbians?

#105 brano

Gemami is on the dot: “You push too hard, the other side will push(es) back”. [Parentheses added for grammatical correctness]

Briano, are you correcting Germami’s english and added “es” after pus.
Are you sure you are correct meh ?

” the other side will pushes back”? I think this one salah, you know.

The original ” the other side will push back” is correct, lah ….

Hi #128) joe,

Brano is correct. I had used, ‘will pushes’ instead of ‘will push’. Thanks brano.

Come on people. There is a thing called ‘engage’ , and a thing called ‘ignore’. Engage the ones who make sense and ignore the ones who patronise you. What you must not do is to ask him to be removed. He has the right to participate the way he sees fit – of course it has to be within the boundaries of the host.

aso, solly solly, brano!

i say, old chap and mr moderator,

what say you of the recent posts by smallvice?

and on and on and on and on and on….

hey anyone watch “wolverine?”, the movie??

The point being is that religious freedom is guaranteed at the individual level. Our constitution has never guaranteed religious freedom at the institutional level. And if you are wondering, religious free speech falls under religious freedom, not freedom of speech.

The Church can only pursue its own interest within its 4 walls and no other place. However, if it enters the political/political arena, then the privilege accorded to it as Religion is no longer applicable. So the question is – should the Church enjoy its privilege or loose its privilege in exchange for religious free speech in the public/political arena?

I just want to point out to bigots here that forming a pink dot is neither sexual intercourse nor public display of affection. It still falls within the realms of social conservatism. Your arguments for keeping their act indoors hardly makes sense.

Is this event still on? What is the expected crowd size? Can you show a map ? and where to park for free? Any indoor gifts? What is the programme line-up?Any
pop group performing?Any chairs provided?

Sure, it is a government permitted event.
But when they say they want the right to be officially married.
i hope the government will know what to do.

Will the police still give the approval if someone wants to hold a Family Day with kids on Hong Lim at the same time?

Do we believe the followings

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

We, the citizens of Singapore
Pledge ourselves as one united people
Regardless of race, language or religion
To build a democratic society
Based on justice and equality
So as to achieve happiness, prosperity & progress for our nation

Do we want Singpore to be like America, Middle Age Europe or Imperial China.
That your choice!!!

To Wudang08,

Family Day means there will be children. Children are welcomed to join the Pink Dot Event as open inclusive values should be inculcated at a young age.

If parents still send their children despite thinking that the Pink Dot is an immoral event, then the question remains whether they actually love their children because their actions contradict their perceived best interest of the children and they are actually exposing their children an event they perceived as immoral.

Let’s hope all parents love their children.

The opposite of pink is lime-green, according to the colour chart. Parents, wanna go form a lime-green square perimeter around this dot? Same date, same time?

I think it is a good idea to let the gay community have their space and event in HLP and it is an opportunity for the gays to show the rest they mean no harm and this first step will go a long way to foster better understanding.

Hi V #145,

But Josie’s gang is The Red Shirts…

Hurrah! The convergence of the queers

Pink or Brown or Yellow or White. They laugh, they cry, eat the same food, sleep with their eyes closed, they snore, they work, they play, they mingle with friends, share jokes and stories, they take the bus, the train and the car, carry umbrellas when it rains or when the sun is burning down on them, they shop, they go to the library, they go on holidays, play with their nieces and nephews, they are children of fathers and mothers, they have their dreams and goals to pursue, they speak Singlish, dig their toes and pick their noses, they experience and display different types of emotions depending on the situations – JUST LIKE YOU AND ME.

Although I disagree with their sexual practises, I must say, I cannot fault them for their sexuality. Whatever and whoever they are, they are still Singaporeans – contributing to the country and the economy like everyone else. Being gay is not solely about the sex, like most have so conveniently connect the both. It is about sexuality, not sex, and I think this is the worst crime, the mainstream society is guilty of, me included.

Wonder if anyone can give an answer on this? I am curious if a bisexual person has higher sex drive since he/she has interest and sexual appetite for both sexes.

Hi Jaunty Jabber,

A bisexual person does not have a higher libido, but he/she does have double the chance of getting laid. Haha…

Hi smallvice585,

Thank you for the answer, I see.
Am curious lah……

@ Jaunty Jabber,

chances are bisexuals have higher sex drives, they have multiple partners to service.

similarly, to practise polygamy successfully, one must also have high sex drive.
are you facing competition from some bisexual ? no worries mate, focus on skill.

Thanks ac / dc love,

I am not in any rival and I am not worrying. I am asking solely out of curiosity.
All the sharing here does aid understanding of people whom I could not put myself in their shoes to understand.

Everyone should be given an fair equal right regardless your sexuality or race.

But in reality only the majority are being heard while the minority are disregarded.

If everyone should be given fair and equal right, why are the religious group not given equal rights also? If the pinkdot wants rights to what they want, then the religious group will not given equal rights.

Let’s be serious, there can never be equal rights, either group has to give their rights up so that they other group can have theirs.

So the question is neither about human rights or equal rights, but what is morally right and morally wrong.

I have just come to this thread, and I wish to express my admiration and gratitude to “t” for her comments on 8 May 2009, 10.59 a.m. “t”, I hope you will read this.

We need more people like you, with your understanding and compassion. It is sad to see how the others gloat over their witty comments, not caring what harm they themselves are causing. I wonder what the gay people have done to them to deserve such contempt and hatred. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Why is the commercial full of people talking about GAY people?

Why not Gay people in the commercial talking too?

Is it not better to hear from the horses mouth instead of people who may be speaking from a script, talking about Gay people??

Inclusive society eh?

Government Approved?

The media is to blame for all the hype. We co-exist very well with gays and many other minority group all the while. The fact that we don’t openly discuss LGBT issue is that we learn to live and let live. Ask yourself why is this group of people so intent on having their “rights” to go public? Certainly not the right to impose on others to embrace their non mainstream lifestyle, I hope! Just as we don’t expect them to go straight like the majority, they can’t and shouldn’t force their “openness” onto the rest as well. I feel the supporters of the old guards of Aware are far too uncouth and fierce – calling the new guards all kinds of names. One should practise some form of restraint no matter how your views deviate from the others. The fact is the majority has learned to accept and live in peace with LGBT. With so many of them around (and more coming out of the closed), there is no way we don’t friends, colleagues or relatives who fall into that category. So we have mastered the art of living cohesively together. The fact is also such: the minority feels waysided because they want more rights and they feel being maginalized. But hey, this is how they feel, it is not a real reflection of how they are being treated. We better not go this slippery slope. I rest my case.

Hi All,

Catch the live twitter feed on the Pink Dot Event here:

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23pinkdot

Hi Eual,

You talk about equal rights. Do you know why religious groups do not have equal rights with others? Because the law already provides privilege for religious institutions.

For example, it is illegal to question the beliefs of religious institutions to protect the religious feeling of the members of the religious institutions.

In return for the privilege, the institutions do not have certain rights. If you want these rights for religious institution, are you prepared for religious institution to give up its privilege?

Just came back from the event.

Very peaceful and orderly, no saboteurs, no police, lotsa straight people, even family with kids. Nice.

Food 4 thought :-

1) Do you accept a prominent Singapore leader to be one of the LGBT ?

2) Do you want your children, cousins, nieces and nephews to be one of the
LGBT ?

3) Do you want to be a bastard after many years coz your parent sleep around
with more than one faithful partner ?

4) Talking about openness and acceptance, can you accept your parents or
siblings to be LGBT ?

You people have expressed enough without putting yourself in the shoe of those loved ones being a LGBT. Please consider u r one of them and let your imagination run into the realistic world.

Remember this…. Jesus loves sinners but hate sins.

If there is going to be a conservative gathering at Hong Lim Park, I will surely come. We need to stand up for what we believe in. I was quite disturbed by the photos from the Pink Dot event. It seemed that the gay agenda is now not just confined to gays. Straight people have now joined them!

This is something that I don’t understand. Why is it that people like Siew Kum Hong, for example, support the gays? He’s a straight man. How can it benefit him to spread the gay agenda on their behalf in Parliament?

And all those straight people at the Pink Dot. Some even carrying their kids. How come they don’t feel disgusted walking around and rubbing shoulders with people whose sexual practices I can’t even mention, let alone imagine. Maybe these straight people took the AWARE CSE when they were still in school, and have been effectively brainwashed by the gay agenda.

I’m sure if straight people turned up, we can greatly outnumber the 1000 who were there at Pink Dot. We are, after all, the majority. We can have ‘Support 377a’ T-shirts. Maybe we can wear dark blue T shirts (the colour of the Police Force) since the law is on our side. I think it’s also important to let the gays know that 377a is our secret weapon. If they push too hard, then we will call on the government to start using the law on them. Because what is the use of a law that is not enforced? As people have pointed out, it makes mockery of the justice system.

I really think that if counselling and psychiatric treatment are unable to make these people straight, then a prison sentence would. After all, many people who have been through the experience of prison think twice before going back to their old ways and bad habits.

I totally agree with conservativevoice.

The LGBT community should reallly understand the meaning of “LOVE”. Does “LOVE” equates to sexual orientation? I certainlly belive that it’s only “LUST”.

Put aside religious and ethical perspectives. Scientifically, it does not make any sense for two beings of the same gender to even have sex. It is just a selfish act like smoking and drinking. Let’s talk about the “3rd party effect”. For instance if you want to smoke and damage your health, by all means go ahead. Just don’t ruin the health of your loved ones around you by smoking near non-smokers. SO if you want to have sex with your own gender, you don’t have to be proud of it and influence others to accept your act.

Singapore is already facing an ageing population. The Prime Minister urge the society to have more babies. With the growing number of LBGT(due to the acceptance of the idea itself), this is not helping Singapore solve her problem. Foreigners will solve the problem? This just shows how much more selfish the LGBT people truly are.

Why is there a need to accept the LGBT community when you people can’t even accept reality? Reality is we are born biologically to have a purpose. Male produce sperms. Females produce eggs. Together combined they produce lives. Lesbians and gays just can’t accept this fact. And then they will come out with different type of excuses why they turn gay.

Some explain that the same gender as them understands them better. LIKE DUH! Until when are you all are not going to accept the opposite sex?

Some reason that they give up on the opposite gender. That’s because you just happen to date or be in a relationship with someone unsuitable for you. Are you promoting the concept of “giving up” to the society?

Some claim that they are born to like the same gender. LIke hello! Every individual admires his/her own gender in various kinds of ways but certainly not sexually.

Whatever the reasons, your own wrong doings should not be a public issue and you should keep it to yourselves. It’s okay for ladies to flirt with ladies and guys to joke around with guys. But if you take it to the extreme of performing sex with your own sex, then I’m sorrry to tell you that you all have serious mental problem.

Lastly, I see no diversity if SAME gender beings are together. Most dissapointing is you LGBT professionals can work hard to achieve your degree,phd, masters and so on. BUT you all just don’t have enough effort to understand and accept your opposite gender. Sorry but I dislike people who give up on life. AND I hate those who accept and are “open” to those giving up on life.

I hope YOU read my view with an open mind. I believe there is still time for YOU LGBT to change for what is right. Those who see rights without obligations eventually destroy themselves. Think of the benefit of the mass society. Don’t think of your own wants only. Other people’s needs are far more important than your own wants.