The following is an email interview with Ms Teo Soh Lung, who was arrested in 1987 and detained under the Internal Security Act for two and a half years. You can read Part One here.
TOC: What motivated your involvement in social activism? How were you involved?
Teo Soh Lung: I don’t think I was ever an activist. I was educated in a Catholic girls’ school (St Anthony’s Convent School) but am not a Catholic. Perhaps the Catholic teachings that action is better than words had a large part in influencing how I live. While at school, I was not an active student though I did help in an organisation that helped the poor – St Vincent de Paul Society I think. When I left school and went to RGS for my pre-U education (because St Anthony’s did not have Pre-U [programme)) I continued to be involved in St Vincent at St Teresa’s Church.
During my university days or shortly after, I think I was a volunteer with some Christian church at Braddell Road and later the PAP Community Centre at Anson where my mother used to live. I taught English and Mathematics to some children. When the free tuition scheme stopped at the community centre, I taught these kids who requested me to help them at the void deck of my mother’s flat every Saturday. I was not an active student at the university. I was too busy earning pocket money with work in the library!
TOC: How long were you detained?
Teo Soh Lung: Two and a half years.
TOC: What was your treatment like during your detention and interrogation? Were you tortured or abused in any way?
Teo Soh Lung: It is a long story. During interrogation, I was verbally abused, slapped, made to stand for hours on end in the cold room with spotlights shining into my eyes and sit on a 3 legged chair, – i.e. one leg was shorter than the other 3 so that a prisoner cannot sit and sleep and thus deprived of sleep for days! Imprisonment was not too bad. For some months I was locked up in a small cell with slits for air and the rest of my stay was in a big spartan cell, which ISD called a “Shangrila Suite”. I was in solitary confinement throughout my stay.
TOC: The then-Archbishop of the Catholic Church, Gregory Yong, publicly denounced many of your fellow activists who were Catholics. This was instrumental in getting the Church to stop advocating for them. What are your thoughts regarding this situation? Do you think Archbishop Yong could have done things differently?
Teo Soh Lung: I am not a Catholic and I don’t think my opinion matters to the Church. When I was in prison, I did not know what happened outside. But being told of the let down by the Church after my release, well, I was a bit disappointed.
It is pointless for me to speculate if the Church could have done things differently.
TOC: In light of what you went through, do you support the continued use of the Internal Security Act to detain suspects indefinitely without trial?
Teo Soh Lung: Of course not. The ISA should be abolished immediately if possible. The ISA has throughout our history been used to control and instill fear in people. Hundreds, if not thousands, of our brightest have been incarcerated, lost their freedoms and youth. Lives have been wasted.
TOC: What effect do you think this episode had on Singapore’s reputation and on Singaporean society? And what do you think civil society can learn from your experience?
Teo Soh Lung: Singapore’s reputation depends on material wealth. As long as it has wealth, nothing matters to the world. On Singaporean society – well, many organisations died after 1987. Those that survived tread carefully and mainly aim to work with the government or at least to gain recognition from the government. In that way, they hope that they will at least be able to help society at large. This is both right and wrong. I think it is better to ask civil society to answer your question.
TOC: What are your views of civil society now and also your views on the wider issue of political space in S’pore? Do you think it is now more open than 20 years ago?
Teo Soh Lung: I think as far as the internet is concerned, civil society has much space even though there are many restrictions. The government certainly has a big headache in trying to stop any discussion on the net. As for political space, I think there is little for the opposition – the real political opposition. As for the people, we have internalised so much fear that we are not even aware of our own fear. We cannot act freely and we don’t even know that we are not acting freely! I don’t think the government is more open today than it was 20 years ago.
TOC: What are your feelings toward the current regime, and Mr Lee Kuan Yew in particular?
Teo Soh Lung: I don’t understand your question. If your question is whether I am angry with them, I’d say no.
TOC: What lessons do you think we can learn as a society from this episode?
Teo Soh Lung: Every generation faces different problems and must find different ways to solve them. I am not able to tell you what can be learnt from this episode. You will have to work this out yourself after knowing what we went through!
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Down with ISA. Singaporean has matured enough to be ruled and instilled with fears. What is 1st world when the ruling party can’t even behave like one! Kudos to the 22. This episode is an impetus to more “Good Years Ahead.”
Great Interview, Thanks!
Thanks to TOC for doing the interview and Ms Teo.
I think she is right with regards to fear in Singaporeans.
And our chase towards material well-being. It is the right approach tough towards progression, however, we have left so many good qualities along the way to archieve this material pursuit.
This is sad….I think the PAP govt has done a great job in tuning us to think in such a fashion, but like I have always said…this idea has cuaght up with the govt like a curse now….
More different ideas must and will come out of this economic crisis….both for the govt and the average Singaporeans.
May we live in Interesting times.
“We have internalised so much fear that we are not even aware of our own fear.”
I swear this is true in my case. I suspect many many if not 90% are having some fear. Founded or unfounded.
I must say, for someone detained under ISA and robbed up of her freedom and youth, it is graceful for her calm and steady replies.
But again, the issue is not the ISA. It is the authority who abuses it. The authority can alwalys pass a new law such as the recent POA (public order act) to give them more power to detain people without trials. The change must come from authority, not the law.
But the authority will not change if we do not face up to their authoritarianism. Look, if no one brought anything up on the internet, if sites like TOC didnt exist, if Chee Soon Juan and friends never protested ever – you think the government would bother changing?
No way, because they might be (or pretend to be) ignorant that people are dissatisfied with certain things. So there’s no reason to change and they can go on ruling the island as usual.
“What motivated your involvement in social activism? ”
If you ask me, its because I have it up to here!
I have seen enough of Pathetically Apathetic And Ugly Singaporea ns.
Too many of them makes me sick to the bones.
I puke , I spit on this sad phenomenon. I feel that humans are too selfish and greedy and selfpreservatory. I feel that they lack Wisdom by being Myopic – they only see what is infront of them. Dangling.
Unbeknownst to them, they have Sabotaged the rest and in the end themselves and their children. They will reap what they sow one day. Being myopic, they would not be able to see this coming.
I support social activism but have not come out of the closet in this aspect :)
sincerely
The evil will still be terminated by Nature (mortality) when no mortals can do the job
“We have internalised so much fear that we are not even aware of our own fear.”
she is right. including me that one way or another, i can feel fear at time when accounter with the authority. i think it has to do with the authority dealing with the ‘law’ that control and manipulate to their advantge such as using constitution on all aspect like education, law and order (fines) that instils with fears all the times.
i definitely look forward for change whether now or soon or later, it just have to change in line with human evolution as we live on and not politically based on just one ‘GUY’.
“But again, the issue is not the ISA. It is the authority who abuses it. The authority can alwalys pass a new law such as the recent POA (public order act) to give them more power to detain people without trials. The change must come from authority, not the law.”
True enough. Underlying ISA is the detention without trial that is the culprit. Another act can be conceived to use detention without trial. So you are right to say that it is not the act, it is the authority who politicise ISA to entrench its parent party to power (and wealth too). Detention without trial is good if used wisely and justly but use by someone who is cunning, paranoid and ruthless to suppress his opponents, this spell misabuse.
Allow me to take the discussion of fear out of context to illustrate.
Iraqis feared Sadam.
They must feel that they will have to live under that till they die.
The factor is 1 man.
Man is a Mere mortal.
External forces also can change. It did.
The fear is extinguished.
Mentality is a state of mind – transient in nature. need not be eternal.
Illustrate mentality or psychology:
. A PhD commits murder for a cult leader. This happened before.
. A smart woman opts to prostitute herself but did not collect money.
Academic Intelligence is nothing.
Its the mentality and psychology.
Under fear, your degree is a piece of …..fill in the blanks…….
We know what ISA policy is all about. Another draconian law since the beginning of time to deprive people from their basic rights and subjective to abuse under the name of “righteous”,”justice”.
Anyway, I always felt sad reading all these, reading about Myanmar and the events with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi for her lost 20 years….
It makes me feel “flawed” and “weak”. The “flawed” prey on the “weaker”… that’s human being… wonder when the world will turn a better place.
Did Obama comment on this law?
I wonder only.
Can or not?
“”"”As for the people, we have internalised so much fear that we are not even aware of our own fear. We cannot act freely and we don’t even know that we are not acting freely!”"”"
I felt what she said above is the truth. Sad but the truth. Read below link what the UN reported about Singapore. (it is a PDF file)
http://www.ibanet.org/Document/Default.aspx?DocumentUid=93326691-c4da-473b-943a-dd0fc76325e8
According to recommendations in the above report from International Bar Association, our type of governance cannot last, change is inevitable. Only a matter of time.
During the time of the barbarianism and savagery of the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia, Singapore said she cannot accept the Khmer Rouge system as it is “barbaric.”
Isn’t the mental and physical torture of the 1987 detainees “barbaric’ and if not what is it? Just being sweet to the youngsters.
Is it of a black kettle calling itself white and as white as Snow White.
At the very least the Khmer Rouge always give you a quick death, though they were very creative in torture. I saw S21 or Stoul Teng, the notorious torture chamber in Phnom Penh.
However, they forgot to torture Mas Selamat. They turned on their sweet charm on him. And we know MSK was so smart he saw through the wh\ole stupidity and escaped from the toilet window.
Well, my solution is to chain his legs and that his toilet is to be doorless and with the Gurkha and four other members of the entourage guards watching him do his business in the open toilet.
Its OK, just nature’s call. I used the open toilet on the fishing boats with their all men crew. No problem if the guards are made of men and women. The doer can assume it is gender friendly – the great Swedish call to the world.
Daniel, are you sure “Detention without trial is good …….”?
Detention without trial is not good in _anyone’s_ hands, at least detention without trial for more than ‘X’ number of days. ‘X’ should ideally be 28 days but can be 60 to 90 days at most. Not more.
How would you like it if the government of the day (any government, even a future one) decided that by participating in a TOC discussion, you are a threat to the nation and locked you up indefinitely, without access to a lawyer or recourse to appeal?
The only thing you can do under these circumstances is to compose poems in your head as some of these people did 22 years ago.
“As for the people, we have internalised so much fear that we are not even aware of our own fear. We cannot act freely and we don’t even know that we are not acting freely! ”
It is like the canary in the golden cage..so used to captivity that when the cage door is finally opened, it refuses to escape!
Not that the door is opened yet, but anyhow, the generally ‘bo chap’ self-centred majority of Singaporeans never felt real freedom and thus will never know the difference!
#14,
I guess Daniel’s point is that even with the ISA abolished, tomoro they can still enact an equally innocuous and evil law.
The POA is one such Act.
Basically, the party in govt is an evil and barbaric one, led by the Godfather.
Peter sellers,
“Detention without trial is not good in _anyone’s_ hands, at least detention without trial for more than ‘X’ number of days. ‘X’ should ideally be 28 days but can be 60 to 90 days at most. Not more.”
if a guy is confirmed evil, incorrigible and murderous but rich and cunning , will that still matter to him if he know that he be out in 3 months’s time ? What if he capable of killing and briding withnesses and has track record for doing so ? In this case, detention without trial seems justifiable. Still detention without trial should be the last rare resort not the first and must be used accordingly with previous track record of the person.
“Much suspected by me,………….”
Look no further – forget about FT like Lee Bee Wah – we have our own in TSL – serving the people selfishly.
Daniel, the answer is obvious, isn’t it? (‘Confirmed’ by who?). If the fellow’s track record is so bad, surely the government will have no problems convicting him in a court of law and locking him away for as long as the law allows?
Let me put t this way, if I am PM and I don’t like you, I can have you locked away forever (or other way around, if you are PM, you can lock me up so I never see the light of day again :) ).
Is this what you want?
To #19,
“- forget about FT like Lee Bee Wah ”
u mean she was from Malaysia is it correct?
17) Daniel on May 23rd, 2009 1.27 am
“if a guy is confirmed evil, incorrigible and murderous”
IF you have evidence to prove he is Evil, Incorrigible and Murderous,
why is there a need to detain without trial? just sentence to eternal hap lah.
I think by the above, you have contradicted yourself.
I support detention (eternal or short term or long term) But With Evidence.
I wonder can one say that without Evidence is based on Believe?
over to you.
I know how to deal with ISD but the problem is, I don’t have the manpower to take them down.