Announcement: The Online Citizen will bring you “live” updates from Suntec City tomorrow of the AWARE Extraordinary General Meeting. “Live” updates will begin from 12 noon. Stay tuned to TOC!
We reproduce Two Facebook notes sent to us by NUS Lecturer Gwee Li Sui, a Christian of 25 years, calling for the withdrawal of the new Executive Committee of Aware, as well as a petition started by parents calling on MOE to review AWARE’s current Comprehensive Sexual Education Programme.
Read also the National Council of Churches of Singapore’s stand in the Straits Times’ report: Churches should stay out.
Facebook Note One
Gwee Li Su
Christians in Singapore, listen! You should not be this conflicted about the AWARE debacle. It appears that a few churches have already taken the opportunity to preach on the issue of homosexuality from the pulpit. Some Christians have also been rattling on about it being time to make a stand and be counted for what one truly believes.
So this is me making a stand right here. I have been a Bible-believing Christian for 25 years now. I want first to acknowledge fellow believers who, like me, are shocked, angered, and saddened by the takeover and feel that their faith has been hijacked and their views ignored. I know that a lot of such affected Christians are out there. There is also another group which may not agree with the new team’s tactics but admires its fervour or sympathises with it for the heat it has been getting.
But, most of all, I want to address a crucial third party: Christian women who have been encouraged to stand up and be counted for their beliefs. I wish to appeal to their good sense in these last hours. You may be one of these and have even joined, or are planning to join, AWARE to help swing the votes in favour of the new ex-co on Saturday. Especially if I am describing you, please read on!
Yes, there are times when a Christian needs to make a courageous stand – but, in every event, always ask yourself: For what cause is this? What context does it serve? The current scenario is not one where we are being asked what our beliefs on certain issues are or whether Christianity and homosexuality are compatible or we are being mocked or discriminated against. It is a simple context where a group of well-meaning Christians infiltrated a secular organisation in order to be in a position to dictate their own values in its daily running. In this light, what a Christian may feel about issues like homosexuality is besides the point!
As a secular body, AWARE rightly cannot have a vision that treats women from different backgrounds through the outlook of just one religious system. Indeed, I dare say that an appropriate Christian response is to resist the actions of these Christians. Just as God gave every person free choice and the opportunity to believe, we ought to support the sanctity of this right for others to make up their own minds and live their own lives. Just as we do not force the Christian faith down someone’s throat against his or her will, we should not take over a non-religious organisation for the single purpose of making others unlike us behave as we believe. To do this would be a gross misapplication of the message of Jesus.
If you support the new ex-co’s actions, be aware that you are sending a string of possibly irreversible wrong signals to every Singaporean. Consider carefully whether you are willing to shoulder the responsibility of damages that would affect the longstanding good work of Christians in Singapore. Since the government has chosen not to be involved in the matter so far, whatever happens will be seen clearly by all as the response of particular sectors of society.
Here is my short list of obvious implications:
[1] Support the new ex-co, and you are effectively saying that you condone its quasi-corporate act of infiltration, with related strategies of secrecy, disinformation, moral coercion, and fear-mongering. You are saying that you support its less-than-Christian covert moves more than traditionally Christian ones like dialogue, open engagement, honesty, and clarity.
[2] Support the new ex-co, and we will go down a slippery road with wide-ranging repercussions for all. Don’t believe for a moment that the manoeuvring will stop here. What this invites others to see is that infiltration is the most effective way for small groups of like-minded individuals to seize power quickly — and where will this end? What is to stop any religious or ideological group from doing the same to any social institution at every level? In the long run, who do you think loses?
[3] Support the new ex-co, and you potentially make light of the freedom that is God’s gift to every human being. Against your best intentions, you may send out instead the message that we Christians think that we know better than everyone else and that we are willing to outflank, overpower, and overwhelm if we do not get our way.
[4] Support the new ex-co, and, if they stay and behave as predicted, you will be directly responsible for undoing the trust that many Christians have taken years to build with their non-Christian friends. This is a trust built on mutual respect. You will have made the Gospel of Christ more difficult to hear for years to come because people will think that they know what it is about. You will have created a new generation of Christ-haters.
This matter, in short, is not to be treated lightly. Jesus tells us all to be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves”. There are times to be passionate and helpful in a gungho way, but this is not the time. Christians can be wrong about many things too. So please, by all means, pray for the AWARE debacle to be resolved amicably and for Christians in AWARE, but do not, in the name of our common faith, go in blind support of other Christians because you are Christian!
Facebook Note 2
This is a follow-up to my earlier note. After posting it, I received — and am still receiving — words of thanks and encouragement from many Christians and people with different beliefs and opinions. The Christians specifically said that it was what they needed to hear or would have liked to get across themselves.
But I have also received less appreciative messages. Some of these charged me with having sown discord and embarrassed Christianity in front of non-believers. The irony did not escape me, but then I began to wonder whether I did make one too many assumptions. These comments were probably knee-jerk reactions, meaning that some Christians may actually not have thought it possible that other Christians, a whole lot of us, could be this appalled with the episode.
For this reason, as a brother-in-Christ, I feel that I need to believe that the new ex-co’s sadness over its negative reception and its willingness to heal the social rifts it caused are genuine. There has already been too much distrust, and somewhere trust has to re-begin. My appeal for non-support is not about humiliating or condemning any group of individuals on either side. Those who have hoped that I came out in strong condemnation of one, emailing me links to sex education and “the gay agenda”, or in clear support of the other, initially mistitling my view as “supporting the Old Guard”, know that I won’t.
This is not being wishy-washy; it is staying focussed. The simple disagreement is with a course of action pursued by a group of Christians that has caused suspicion between communities and fear within each. If everyone is to set aside his or her own fixation — gay, anti-gay, faith in practice, fundamentalism, etc. — and trace back to the source of our current unhappiness, he or she will see that it all started with a single fateful decision. One ought not then to doubt that these Christians intend good from their point of view, but one has every reason to doubt that things could be restored and relationships healed by going down the same road.
As the party involved is Christian, the most amicable solution may well also be the most obvious. In fact, how could we not have seen it? We Christians believe in a God who gives every person second chances in life. Every chance after the first two is still the second: that’s how gracious we believe He is! When one makes a mistake or realises that one has followed a bad choice, there is no shame in admitting wrong, so long as one is sincere about changing. The choice to turn back is never a Christian defeat; it is our triumph!
Indeed, paradoxically in this situation, one can also only move on, move forward, by going backwards to the point where the wrong choice was made and choose rightly this time. This is a versatile truth I learnt from C. S. Lewis a long time ago. If the new ex-co will, without contest, give up its seats for a more inclusive shape of leadership in AWARE, it will have regained, I dare say, the faith of many Singaporeans and the admiration and support of every Christian in full measure. These individuals can then go on to pursue in earnest their concern over homosexual teaching in schools and related issues with the right authorities. I want to believe that everyone in that later business will be cooperative and respect the eventual findings, whatever the outcome is.
If the AWARE Christians in current leadership and those gearing up to vote tomorrow will choose this infinitely less harmful route, they will have made us all who are Christians proud of them. Do consider the option seriously: it is as practical and as Christian as it can get. Realise that fellow believers like me who are outraged want peace too and have been praying for it. But, when it comes to making peace a reality, only specific individuals are able to effect it. The ball is in their court alone. We can all avoid a confrontation. We can stun the nation with one simple move that affirms love, faith, and hope, all at once.
———–
The following is a message accompanying an online petition raising concerns about Aware’s sex education programme.
Dear parents,
We need your help – and your signatures!
Many of us are concerned about recent press reports about ‘comprehensive sexuality education’ (CSE) programmes conducted in schools by AWARE that endorse homosexuality and anal sex as ‘normal’ or ‘neutral’.
For example some statements from the current CSE programme (as reported in “Nothing ’sneaky’ about elections”, Sunday Times, 26 April 2009) include:
Anal sex ‘can be healthy or neutral if practised with consent and with a condom’.
‘Avoid using the term ‘husband’ and use ‘partner’ instead, so it is more inclusive. For example, ‘homosexuals have partners, not husbands’.’
If you are concerned that such programmes have been brought into our schools, and taught to our children, we would like to invite you to join us in signing the letter at
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/parents_sex_ed_appeal/
Please do so by 10 May 2009.
We hope to send this letter, with as many of your signatures as possible, to the good Minister for Education to express our concern about such programmes being actually conducted in our schools.
We are confident he will give it due consideration.
With your help, we hope that our children will get the best value-added education in our home we call Singapore.
We also hope that we will all be able to work with our schools in the wholesome education of our children, not least of all in the area of sexuality education.
Thank you for your support!
—-
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
If you like this article, please consider a small donation to help theonlinecitizen.com stay alive. Please note that we can only accept donations from Singaporeans. Thank you for your assistance.Do you have a flair for writing? Volunteer with us. Email us your full name and contact details to theonlinecitizen@gmail.com
I support Qwee’s call to the committee to quit because in the wake of anti christians and accusations of unethical hijack it will not heal but widen the rift and it is NOT the aim of the new AWARE. If you don’t you will continue to face hostility and distrust.and you will be viewed suspiciously as an group with a christian agenda to convert others or impose your belief on them.
You have already won. You have already made known the chtistian stand on homosexual activities.You have made known that christians are NOT anti homosexuals and that is all needed to be done and it is done. Let other make their choices and bear the consequences of their choice. You have already sown the seeds and that is your responsibility only. You don’t need to see to their transformation, that is NOT your business.
Hand over the rein on a platter to the old AWARE committee at the EOGM and bury the hatchet and apologise for the take over with love.
Let Jesus be glorified.
Good points of consideration for Christians. Forward it to your friends =]
Unfortunately, the wheels are turning and can’t be stopped. If online chatter be the guide, then the new exco will defeat (albeit narrowly) the motion of no-confidence. Have you noticed the defeaning silence shown by the pro new exco support? This is a sign of quiet confidence that they have marshalled their resources to win this.
And with this, our country will enter a new and dangerous phase of religious fundamentalism from all beliefs and faiths. Mark my words.
Kudos to you, Peace, for a sensible piece of advise as the new exco of AWARE have generated more anti-Christian feelings than they are aware of (no puns intended). My own perception of the good that Christianity / Christians represent went downhill after I read about the covert way in which they went about to take over AWARE. To put it mildly, it was deceitful and totally un-Christian like.
Mr Gwee Li Su need not apologize for “having sown discord and embarrassed Christianity in front of non-believers.” On the contrary, he should be held up as a model of Christ’s love for a diverse society. It is humility that submits that arrogant church members do exist, and need to be reminded that Jesus forgives a sinner, even the prostitute Mary Magdalene. Several AGMs ago, we had to chide our own pastor for reporting he went on a sabatical, when it was actually a paid holiday some church members felt he deserved after so many years of service. As Christians, we cannot set judgemental views for those outside our flock if we don’t abide by same high standards within our own congregation. Was it not Christ who said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her?”
1) Peace on May 1st, 2009 10.38 am
Wow, Peace, is that you? I mean, the same Peace that has been posting on the other threads?
But no matter, you are absolutely right. If the new exco had wished to make a point, it has indeed been most emphatically made (whether one agrees with them or not) and if they really want to exit gracefully, this is the best time to do so.
My thoughts: http://singaporesocialactivist.blogspot.com/2009/04/act-of-self-righteousness.html
I think Li Sui has eloquently voiced my concern regarding this AWARE incident, especially if the new exco remains in power. The guarded approach that many (including me, probably) will employ when dealing with Christians and Christian organisations will severely hamper religious understanding in Singapore.
As for the petition, I wonder if it was posted before or after MOE published their statement.
What you’ve uttered is exactly what’s on my mind too! Kudos.
I am not sure if our perception is all correct.
The fact that the majority (or all ) of the new Exco happened to be Christians is perhaps a mere coincidence. That they stood against the promotion of pro-homosexuality is a stand not only taken by Christians, but also by the other religions. Or even amongst aethists if I may suggest.
The media has repeatedly played up the “christian”aspect of the new exco and thier church membership. This is, I must say, unfortunate if not, questionable. It has skewed the public perception and has cause it to be seen as “Christains against the Old Aware or against the Gays “. Which clearly is not accurate.
It is ALL religions that stood against homosexuality.
THIS IS MOST UNFORTUNATE.
In the midst of all these, we learnt of the “hidden agenda”" of the Old Exco to promote, albeit very subtly, the pro-gay agenda via its cse programme in schools.
Sad that it has to be a fiasco such as this to bring it to light.
I do not support Gu Li Su’s assertion that the new Exco should step down although I wish they had managed their “PR” better than keeping quiet and allowing the media to arouse more specualtions and create more distrust in amongst its readers. They should explain themselves clearly upfront and not allow speculations to take root.
ONG T H
Nice note by Dr Gwee, thanks for bringing up to our attention, TOC. Though you missed an ‘i’ in her name after ‘Facebook note one’.
Peace, I don’t want to comment on what you’ve said but I thought you should just have the courtesy to spell her name correctly… Don’t quite see how you can typo it considering Q and G are pretty far apart on the keyboard…
I appreciate the clarion call to your brothers and sisters in Christ to act sensibly in this cunning game of stealth, subversion, infiltration, etc, ostensibly for the coup of AWARE to address certain concern on homosexuality. The exco’s church even came out to say they are not anti-gay but God has drawn a line. All these Christians are hypocrites to the core. Perhaps it is high time to remind them what ex-President George Bush says “If you are not with us, you are against us.” There are no two ways about it. The Church and the members involved have created in the mind of Singaporeans a deep hatred of Christians with their unsavoury and unethical coup de’tat of AWARE.
I am an agnotics and NOT a AWARE member and absolutely have no interest in the old and new AWARE at all. I am just a commoner reading the news and paying some interest on the ongoing saga. Over the years, many relatives, colleagues, friends, etc, preach to me the virtue of Christ to convert me to believe in HIM, telling me all the miracles and goodness Christ had done for the world. I even journeyed to Israel to visit the holy places where Christ was born and crucified to see for myself the goodnes done by Christ. I also learned that only 1% Israeli are Christians which surprises me.
The episode of AWARE may provide some answers and made me think otherwise now. I now believe not all Christians are good people. They can also sabotage and depose you and not according to what Bible says. Your message is an eye opener and I would resist all the fervour and zeal of Christian brothers/sisters preaching and trying to convert me. The truth is now out in the open for all to see. I salute you for the stand you have taken to the extent of being ostracised by your brothers/sisters in Christ. You are indeed doing a wonderful job to appeal to your own kind. Cheers!
Under the Old Guards, the AWARE membership hovers around 300, AGMs are
attended by about 40 to 50 members. This is a very poor
representation of Singapore’s Women. It is a very poor performance for an organisation considering that AWARE has been around for about 25 years. Yet AWARE has the temerity to
conduct sex education at a national level. Through its Comprehensive
Sexuality Education programme, it is imparting wrong values about
sexuality to the sons and daughters of Singapore’s women. With the
resources allocated to them and the authorities they command, they
have not solved many issues important to women – STDs/HIVs cases,
teenage pregnancies, teenage abortions, girl gangsterism, divorce,
alcoholics, drug abuse, drug trafficking – these are all on the rise.
They have betrayed the trust we have placed in them. Not surprisingly,
some women decide to stand up to change things for the better. The Old
Guards reacted predictably over this. They cast suspicions on the new
members of the exco and demonise them on the basis of their religion.
They gather support to call an EOGM to pass a vote of no confidence on
the new exco citing two reasons:
1. the way the new members got themselves elected to the exco
2. their perception of the new members
It is ridiculous that while the Old Guards have been given so many years
to prove themselves but failed, are calling a vote of no
confidence on the New Guards who have not been given a chance to prove
their worth. Basically, members are asked to judge the New Guards
based on what the Old Guards think of them. That is all there is to it in the vote of no confidence.
Look at the way the Old Guards now go about recruiting new members and
encouraging them to attend the EOGM, offline and online. They have
even worked out how to seat their supporters and who should say what
on the day of the EOGM. How meticulous! If only they have put such
zeal to their work in the past. It goes to show that they are working
for themselves, not the women of Singapore. Its only when they want to
gain back the offices they have lost that they reach out to the women
of Singapore. Before that they were contented with the constant small
number of members and the constant small number of attendees in AGM.
AWARE is about Women, Women and Women, not religion. It has nothing to do with religion. Don’t be misled into believing
that the issue is religion. This is only being used by the Old Guards to demonise the New Guards. The women who stand up to change AWARE do
so because they are women, not because they are religious. They are
concerned about how AWARE is going astray. They want to put AWARE on
the right path, to concentrate on serving the women of Singapore. They could have chosen to ignore it or tolerate it but they choose the most difficult and challenging option i.e. to change it. For this, they deserve all the encouragement and support we can give. What they have achieved is
one small step for a small group of women but a giant leap in the fight against evil. It does not take a religious person or a Professor to know this. As Singapore becomes more open, cosmopolitan and global, its society
is more challenged by rotten values and decadence. Our civic
organisations and NGO’s should not blindly follow those in the West
but instead work to preserve the values which will maintain our
progress, stability, security, safety, health, etc..
A vote against the new exco is a vote on status quo i.e. same old
people running things the same old way and our society continues to rot.
A vote for the new exco is a vote on change for the better i.e. a new
beginning towards a better future, a better society.
The choice is yours. Vote wisely. The women of Singapore depends on
you. What the sons and daughters of Singapore learn about sexuality
in schools depend on you.
10) ONG T H on May 1st, 2009 2.36 pm
On the contrary, its not a perception – its a fact. Didn’t you see the interview with the Feminist Mentor? Didn’t you see the hilarious press conference given by Josie, Maureen et al?
But you are correct in that this has nothing to do with Christianity – which I am sure does not promote telling lies and backstabbing. I don’t see the acts done by the new exco is deviously gaining power and what they have done since (telling lies on TV) as being acceptable to any proper religion, wouldn’t you agree?
10) ONG T H on May 1st, 2009 2.36 pm
And the so-called pro-homo agenda. So far, no one, not even the mighty Feminist Mentor has been able to show where or how exactly (chapter and verse please and not some general statement), the CSE or any other program of the old AWARE promotes any lifestyle, alternate or otherwise.
I think someone very wise once told people not to bear false witness, and that is indeed good advice which we should take. It is sad to see lies being repeated so often as if repeating lies can make it the truth. Same tactic as weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Gwee Li Su is indeed a very brave person willing to stand against the herd and stand up for decency and reason.
Indeed many would have the misjudgement that the writer is writing under the guise of a Christian. I do not doubt for once as there are many Christians like that who do not hold a position of faith for fear that fighting for the truth will only serve to further disparage the very group they belong to. The mire of attack seems too colossal for them that taking an opposing view against their own fibre of belief becomes sadly the compromise. Academia retorts are often colourful and rhetorical but lacks the facts and substance to argue against issues enwrapped in electoral process, moral stance, religious beliefs, education materials etc etc, . There is no need for me to engage in another academia retort to further fuel the matter. My answer is simple… go into prayer and He will make straight the path for you.
But the LORD is with me as a dread warrior;
therefore my persecutors will stumble;
they will not overcome me.
They will be greatly shamed,
for they will not succeed.
Their eternal dishonor
will never be forgotten.
Jeremiah 20:11
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:10-12
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
John 15:18-20
CSE is an MOE’s issue, i cannot understand how some parents are talked into believing its Aware’s fault. now that MOE has made it stand, can these people “wake up”?
besides, being tolerant of gays lesbians, does not mean pro gay & lesbians. this goes to show this new Exco is just rousing public sentiments & stoking the fear for their selfish interests.
its not like Thio mobilise a takeover of Aware & at the same time highlight the gay issue (to MOE not Aware, don’t bark at the wrong tree) to the masses….
I’ve said it before,and i will say it again.
Its sickening to see parents blaming MOE and AWARE for trying to solve a problem that would not be there if all parents had been perfect in inculcation values.
Some children may want some actual facts to help them decide on what is wrong and right rather then just “Cos God Said So”
anyway, I don’t believe this is a “Christian” issue. Some individuals have simply twisted God’s word to suit their agenda. Let us not look badly upon Christians just because some of their brethren have acted negatively. Religion is not involved in this petty tussle, its up to us to not drag it in.
I don’t know if you have seen/read these:
http://voicethread.com/#q.b462206
http://voicethread.com/share/468061/
http://tampinescourt.blogspot.com/2009/04/has-moe-lost-its-mind.html
My 2-cents worth and perhaps a different worthwhile perspective;;WOMEN ARE THE TRUE CREATORS OF THE WORLD;through them are born kings,presidents,sages and great men and women;so knowing this can you look down on any women? Therefore my congratulations to the 2-groups of women who are at loggerheads tomorrow because you have woken-up an entire slumbering nation and singapore is never going to be same after this.Also my greatest respect for MS. GWEE LI SUI. its people like you who are the real CREATORS of the world.finally may i end with this verse from a buddhist meditation exercise;;;;MAY ALL MOTHERS SISTERS WIVES AND DAUGHTERS BE SAVE AND SOUND;;MAY ALL MOTHERS SISTERS WIVES AND DAUGHTERS BE MENTALLY HAPPY;;MAY ALL MOTHERS SISTERS WIVES AND DAUGHTERS BE PHYSICALLY HAPPY;;MAY ALL MOTHERS SISTERS WIVES AND DAUGHTERS TAKE GOOD CARE OF THEMSELVES HAPPILY.
it’s like TSM saying i cannot be gay because God says so. who gave her the mandate?
this is hilarious. check out what happened inside Aware office a day before the EGM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLMdcs_XN0
@Peace (#1), wow, your apparent change in stance is surprising, in a good way.
I’m fine with the parents taking up the issue with MOE, and perhaps forcing a Parliamentary debate on this. Dialogue rather than hijack was how the whole thing should have proceeded in the first place. But let’s restore AWARE to how it was before… it’s quite clear that Josie Lau etc. came in with a single purpose in mind, and are like fish out of the water as regards the other AWARE programmes. For everyone’s sake (including their own), I hope they take the initiative to resign.
HURRAY to the women of singapore— they have put the men to shame with their courage LETS CELIBRATE TOMORROW at suntec for deomocracy equality and freedom
Gwee Li Su says :
1 The current scenario is not one where we are being asked what our beliefs on certain issues are or whether Christianity and homosexuality are compatible or we are being mocked or discriminated against. It is a simple context where a group of well-meaning Christians infiltrated a secular organisation in order to be in a position to dictate their own values in its daily running.
Nonsense! What were you smoking when you wrote this? The central issue is not about Christians INFILTRATING a secular organisation “in order to be in a position to dictate their own values in its daily running. ”
This is about the actions of a group of responsible parents who are appalled by an errant organisation which is preaching to our impressionable 12 year old children that anal sex is healthy in contravention the official MOE’s stance that gay anal sex is against the law, specially the Penal Code 377A and its ok for pubescent girls to experiment with each other’s bodies and it is wrong to address the man as a husband but a partner to please the gay student.
In case you have not seen Aware’s CSE training Guide please spend a few minutes to watch this here so that you can make an informed decision!
http://voicethread.com/#q.b468061.i2489061
If this is not a serious deviation from the MOE’s stance on family values why is that the MOE is now investigating this?
Majority of Singaporeans reject this indoctrination of our children that a gay lifestyle is healthy and that same sex marriage should be a norm in this country.
See the petition that has attracted nearly 2000 concerned parents to take a stand and sign up beofre sending it to the MOE.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/parents_sex_ed_appeal/index.html
2″Just as God gave every person free choice and the opportunity to believe, we ought to support the sanctity of this right for others to make up their own minds and live their own lives.”
In Singapore, in case you don’t know, gays are free to “make up their own minds and live their own lives ” but the law does not recognize same sex marriage and gay anal sex is a criminal offense under the Penal Code 377A.
If you have problem with this why don’t you take a stand against the govt?
3″Just as we do not force the Christian faith down someone’s throat against his or her will, we should not take over a non-religious organisation for the single purpose of making others unlike us behave as we believe.”
You are barking up the wrong tree, my friend. This is not about forcing the Christian faith down someone’s throat . It is about saving our children from an organisation which has lost it vision and is corrupting the minds of our young children with donations from a Trust Fund and certain quarters that accept same sex marriage and welcome LGBTs. See Link here :
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/317322print.asp
4 “Support the new ex-co, and you are effectively saying that you condone its quasi-corporate act of infiltration, with related strategies of secrecy, disinformation, moral coercion, and fear-mongering. ”
Nonsense. The new exco won the democratically held elections fair and square.
If there is any fear-mongering it is you who is mixing politics with religion which can explode up like a high octane mixture.
If the old guards were complacent and asleep at the switch they deserved to lose the elections.
All this sound and fury would not have happened without the poor loser old guard asking for an EGM, with recruits of new members, the same ploy which you said amounted to a strategy of secrecy and infiltration when it was done by the new exco but seems to be completely acceptable when it came to the old guards. Why the double standards?
Dear Dr.Gwee,
As a christian, I am embarassed by what you have written. You should go back and read your bible over and over again.
As a parent..I am disappointed that MOE did not screen through the materials promoted by the previous AWARE trainers.
For teaching 12 years old that anal sex is ok, you ought to go to HELL
10) ONG T H on May 1st, 2009 2.36 pm
13) singaaware on May 1st, 2009 3.55 pm
22) Curious on May 1st, 2009 8.58 pm
Wow, the 3 of you are doing extremely fine and put things in the right perspective.
I fully agree with all of you.
The new AWARE exco was voted in in accordance to the AWARE constitutions.
BTW, I am not a Christian and I am following the AWARE event in a very objective manner.
Very strange that DR Gwee Li Sui wrote this at this critical hour in such an emotional manner. Don,t you think the new ExCo deserve a chance to manage?. Strange that you used words like shock, angered, hijack, infiltrate…Had you used less emotional terms your article would have convinced me. But not now..there is something amiss wrong and strange about what yu wrote…,
I wonder if anyone can update live by tweetting???
I appologised for the extreme remarks ,I am not highly educated, Iam just angry and digusted. I have friends who are homosexual and heteroxual and I have seen them cry for what they are, and I sympathised with them, they wish they were normal. Their community is small and to find willing partners is a problem, hence some resorts to lure and corrupt the younger normals. At the tender age, it is quite common for some to develop likings for the same gender, this is a confusing stage for this youngster, we as adults should be guiding them towards the correct path, and not subject them to wrong instructions. Religion ,race , power are not the issue here and I believe the new Exco are doing this out of concerned of our children, OUR FUTURE.
Mr Gwee, i assume you read everything on the papers and so have i. Of all the papers i have read, not once have i heard the new exco mention that there are representing their church or the christian faith on this issue. Neither have they asked all christians to stand for it. The only comment i have read from one of the exco’s member is that as a parent she is appalled by what is being taught in schools.
>>So please, by all means, pray for the AWARE debacle to be resolved amicably and for Christians in AWARE, but do not, in the name of our common faith, go in blind support of other Christians because you are Christian!
Yes the issue is on homosexuality and yes the Christian faith does not believe in practising it but your article calling all christian women to not support it in blind faith is ridiculous because nowhere does the exco asks for support based on faith. Please read what is being written in the papers, measure what is being said and do not make blind assumptions. Your whole argument that they are doing in for a religious agenda is baseless.
I hope you as a bible fearing christian of 25 years understand the implications of what you are doing. I am a christian and i understand homosexuality is a sin but our battle is against the powers and principalities of this world and not flesh and blood. I don’t think there’s any need to rally other christians and cause divisions over this issue because the thought that other people are misled and are persecuting christians over this makes you uncomfortable. Be uncomfortable then. Jesus never said being a christian was easy. Being a human isn’t easy, just stick with it.
The exco isn’t perfect and they have made mistakes. Why can’t you give them a second chance instead of being so suspicious of their motives.
#22, #23, #24 What the new ex-co has done was to make non-Christians lose faith/trust in Christians. This makes it tougher for Christians to reach out to non-believers.
#22) Curious on May 1st, 2009 8.58 pm
You don’t give up peddling your lies and BS, do you? Let’s analyse your twisted comments :
“This is about the actions of a group of responsible parents”
Not all of them are parents – study your proxies carefully.
“who are appalled by an errant organisation which is preaching to our impressionable 12 year old children ”
Whew, pause for a moment to wipe the froth from your mouth, will ya? Talk about lies. Well, I suppose since Josie, Maureen and your great Feminist Furher have all shown that for them telling lies is as natural as breathing, I suppose we can’t expect any better from their underlings such as you.
“its ok for pubescent girls to experiment with each other’s bodies”
Lies, Lies and Damned Lies. But entirely befitting the kind of “religious” person you must claim to be.
“In case you have not seen Aware’s CSE training Guide please spend a few minutes to watch this here so that you can make an informed decision!:”
Most people have watched it, read it and made an informed decision which is that there is no such issue as you and your fellow sheep have been screeching so shrilly about.
“If this is not a serious deviation from the MOE’s stance on family values why is that the MOE is now investigating this?”
Sigh. Where is our mighty feminist mentor and why doesn’t she come out now? The MOE has said that there were no complaints. So immediately the complaints were orchestrated by these fanatics. So the MOE has investigated as they said they would if there was a complaint. And I hope the MOE prosecutes every last one of these fanatics who are bearing false witness when this is over.
“Majority of Singaporeans reject this indoctrination of our children that a gay lifestyle is healthy and that same sex marriage should be a norm in this country.”
No, the majority of Singaporeans reject the charlatans who are habitual liars and sneaks and their patsies such as you. Take a look round the blogosphere and see how pathetic the apologists for the new exco look.
“See the petition that has attracted nearly 2000 concerned parents to take a stand and sign up beofre sending it to the MOE.”
Wonder why all these parents suddenly get hot flushes at the same time when the program has been around for two years now. They must have been really concerned and following their children’s schoolwork assidiuously but coincidentally decided to complain only after the MOE released its report? Boy, the weed given to all the sheep in your place of worship (although I really wonder what you worship – the God of Liars?) must be strong stuff.
2″Just as God gave every person free choice and the opportunity to believe, we ought to support the sanctity of this right for others to make up their own minds and live their own lives.”
“In Singapore, in case you don’t know, gays are free to “make up their own minds and live their own lives ” but the law does not recognize same sex marriage and gay anal sex is a criminal offense under the Penal Code 377A.”
“If you have problem with this why don’t you take a stand against the govt?”
More pointless drivel from you. You aren’t even responding to the point raised by the writer and you are simply ranting pointlessly. Come on TOC, can we raise the standard of argument here?
3″Just as we do not force the Christian faith down someone’s throat against his or her will, we should not take over a non-religious organisation for the single purpose of making others unlike us behave as we believe.”
“You are barking up the wrong tree, my friend. This is not about forcing the Christian faith down someone’s throat . It is about saving our children from an organisation which has lost it vision and is corrupting the minds of our young children with donations from a Trust Fund and certain quarters that accept same sex marriage and welcome LGBTs. See Link here :
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/317322print.asp”
4 “Support the new ex-co, and you are effectively saying that you condone its quasi-corporate act of infiltration, with related strategies of secrecy, disinformation, moral coercion, and fear-mongering. ”
Exactly! Well said.
“All this sound and fury would not have happened without the poor loser old guard asking for an EGM, with recruits of new members, the same ploy which you said amounted to a strategy of secrecy and infiltration when it was done by the new exco but seems to be completely acceptable when it came to the old guards. Why the double standards?”
I wonder why I bother to try to tell you the truth when you are obviously a hack and an apologist but still I can’t let you again with a whopper of a lie like that. Josie and her Liars were sneaks. They infiltrated AWARE, hid their position like the cockroaches they are, seized power and only after public pressure and attempting to lie their way out, were they forced to come clean as to where they came from, how their actions were coordinated by their very (un)Feminist Mentor. And now when the old guard with the call for an EGM with the facts and their position clear (no secrecy here), you claim double standards? Its pathetic that Josie and the Liars have to whine and rely on hacks like you to defend the indefensible.
I believe owkwok is spewing crap. I have seen many christians being led astray by their pastors into hurting their non-christian friends. Just in the name of Him. This is crazy
I just wish to add that from what I had gathered via the internet, the
Trainers’Guide on the CSE is clear evidence of “subtle influence by the Old Aware”to promote pro-homosexual agenda via the schools and “corrupting” the minds of school children at an early age.
I would have no objections to them saying/suggesting that anal sex is “controversial” and that there are different views. But to suggest that it be regarded as “Neutral”is an endorsement of the view that it can be regarded as “normal”.
If I were a woman, and even if I were not a Christan, I would be sufficiently appalled at what the Old Aware had been doing and would have stood for elections to cause a change. Unfortunately, I am of the male gender !
Once again, the fact that the new Exco members are Christians DOES NOT mean that they will force thier Christian beliefs on anyone. It is NOT just Chrisitans who have a stand against Homosexuality, but all religions and even agnostics could well share this position. AND IT DOES NOT MEAN that Christians are against gays or lesbians. It is the practice that Christians have difficuities in accepting. NOT the persons.
Let’s hope that good sense will prevail and not allow emotions to cloud our thinking.
Can Ong check the dictionary what “neutral” means? Display some common sense please. We are not babies and we know what is right and wrong. We don’t need holier than thou christians forcing antigay, anti-abortion and anti-nonbelievers ideals on us. Better still, after slapping people, you still say that you have not slapped us. What lies are these?
Curious: ‘See the petition that has attracted nearly 2000 concerned parents to take a stand and sign up before sending it to the MOE.’
Question 1: when was the petition put up – before or after MOE contacted the ‘feminist mentor’, Dr Thio Su Mien, to give specifics of material promoting homosexuality & lesbianism in schools, etc?
Question 2: who put up the petition, is she a member of COOS, or a supporter of the new Ex-co?
Question 3: How come MOE had not received any complaints from ‘concerned parents’ before Dr Thio was requested to justify her statements?
Question 4: why didn’t Dr Thio, Josie Lau & co, if they are so concerned about AWARE’s CSE ,raise this issue before with AWARE or MOE?
Question 5: the 2000+ parents who signed, are they members of COOS, supporters of Josie Lau & co?
The timing of this petition is a very, very strange coincidence. Wonder if COOS sent out another email to its congregation to sign the petition to help justify what was said by the ‘feminist mentor’ and her cohorts.
3 points to correct some persons’ misconception here:
1. The mainstream teaching of Buddhism is that homosexuality is of the same spiritual and moral status as heterosexuality. In our pluralistic society, AWARE as a secular organisation should be neutral. AWARE should base its position on scientific consensus (e.g. mainstream psychological professional bodies and psychiatric bodies which state that homosexuality is normal condition even though only a small percentage of human population are homosexuals) and not side with Christianity, to be fair to Buddhism. I know this because I have attended a local major Buddhist Conference’s discussion on Buddhism and also have read various Buddhist scholars and monks’ written works on homosexuality. (btw, even Health Promotion Board’s educational material, when talking about lesbianism, states that being a lesbian “doesn’t make you less normal. Each human is unique, with different likes and dislikes”. (see HPB’s education material at not http://www.letstalkaboutsex.sg/women/sexuality_1.asp) This is the correct stance for all truly secular organisations.
Ong T H (post number 10) is mistaken to say that all religions have the same view against homosexuality.
2. Anal sex is already legal in Singapore when our government removed the law against anal sex.
3. Anal sex is practised by some heterosexuals too. Anal sex is not equivalent to gay sex. Some gays do not practise anal sex.
@31ONG TH
You should use the internet to get a decent definition of Neutral. Its means NEITHER okay/good/insert-antonym-for-positive NOR bad/insert-antonym-for-negative.
Honestly.. I have no issues with the Christians. I’m ignoring the whole religions angle. Its just some people twisting God’s Words to suit their agenda.
I object to any deliberate use of anybody religious background to further their own objectives and agenda.
Who started this whole issue? The old guards of AWARE after being kicked out.
I cannot but help wonder how would one feel when your colleagues in your office make use of your religious background to allege some kind of potential conspiracy behind your promotion in your career and demanded to know what is your agenda after your promotion to certain level. How would you feel?
Do note that the old Guard of AWARE say that it is a small part of the entire programme, what crap, small poison is still poison and little bit of poison still can kill, who are they kidding? Think we blind and stupid is it? Kind of insulting our intelligence that we are very stupid not to see through their counter arguments. Please don’t use small numbers to distract, deviate and cover up, we are not stupid.
Dear concerned citizens, take out all the noise and emotions, we perhaps just need to ask 2 basic questions, our final analysis and approach should then rightly fall in place:
(i) is AWARE now a cover for LGBT to set their foothold and advocacy e.g in the larger community, schools – yes/no/somewhat?
(ii) our belief and action as a majority conservative society; the message and choices we want our children to make? (what if the new AWARE are concerned Muslims instead triggered by the same core belief)
@31 ONG TH simply refuses to believe in dictionaries, only in the ‘truths’ told to him by his pastor.
i think dr thio is doing a good job. she’s a women of character. there’s nothing wrong with what shes doing. give her and her team more time to prove themselves.
To Tong LK
I think it would be preferred if we do not get personal !
Just to add, I have a mind of my own
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/317322.asp
Check this out: follow the paper trail and check out where the funding for the CSE comes from! A pro-gay, pro-LBGT church!
What happened to all the cries of separation of church and secular organizations by the old AWARE?
Or is that waived when it’s pro-gay?
Goodnight and good luck everybody,
I’ll see some of you tomorrow, though we probably won’t recognize it each.
It had been fun participating. It had been a nice tea party with some who came to hug my rainbow colored tree. It had been a good practice in attempting to understand what’s on the mind with people we disagree with, At the end of the day, everyone are more similar than we’ll ever admit. We’re all driven by Love for our kids and future kids. We’ll all driven by Fear for their future. We all are driven to act because we fear that our faith won’t be enough to preserve a better future for our children.
Well, it all comes down to tomorrow. Frankly I dunno what the outcome will be.
It sounds so silly sometimes, all those actions to take over AWARE. I wonder if Josie and co. are already regretting it. So what if they win tomorrow? What happens when the champagne toasting ends? What have they truly inherited? Do they really believe the laws of the corporate world will apply to the running of an NGO? Do they have any idea how little support they will find among the NGO community? How many people outside of their supporters will want to turn to AWARE for help? And how much can they manuveur now with everyone watching their every single move, to catch them if they so much as mention the ‘G’ word? Do they believe that the Old Guards will simply fade away into the shadows? Don’t they know that in NGOs, the people are the brand? All these actions, all these divisiveness.. all these waste of goodwill… over something anal… to take over a name that would mean NOTHING without the hearts of the people who poured their love into it.
So silly…
I thank God for sending this group of courageous women to help parents and society. I now fully understand why this group of brave women has to do the way they do, they don’t have a choice considering the bitchy tactics of the old guards of AWARE.
1 word – all religions have the same view against homosexuality = fallacy.
Pastors never lie. We all know this.
I see. I agree with your view yipeng. I apologise for being too emotional and intolerant. Maybe there is really one god after all.