Leong Sze Hian
I refer to the article “Temasek outdid key benchmarks” (ST, Jun 19).
In comparing Temasek’s returns with other benchmarks from March 1999 to March 2009, there was a footnote that for Temasek, “Assume March ’09 market value = Nov ’08 market value”.
Why is it that Temasek’s March 09 market value was not used in the comparison?
In the recent meltdown of the global equity markets, its worse point was in March 2009 (MSCI World).
Interestingly, the comparison did not compare Temasek with any other funds in its own category – Sovereign Wealth Funds (SWF) like Abu Dhabi’s.
The benchmarks compared to have also not been consistent.
For example, it was recently compared to Harvard’s Endowment, and now to Warren Buffett.
Also, the comparison is only for one time period.
Last month, the comparison was for six years, and now it is for 10 years.
In order for any comparison to be more meaningful, the returns should be for various time periods, like 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years and from inception, and against the same benchmarks.
Finally, is this latest return adjusted for Government cash injections, state asset transfers and valuations, and state asset sales?
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The following was taken from ST forum:
ST exhibited very low journalistic standards with the article on Tamasek performance. The journalist was obviously given info by Tamasek to paint a rosy picture. Readers need to know the following:
1) How is Total Shareholder’s Return (TSR) computed?
2) How were the TSR figures arrived at for Investor AB and Berkshire Hathaway?
3) Why the period from March 1999 to March 2009? Remember NASDAQ collapsed in March 2000 and Tamasek doesn’t have much investments in NASDAQ then.
4) How does Tamasek value its unlisted equities?
So many crucial questions, but ST is not interested in doing any work. They just want to paint a positive picture of Tamasek.
I do not know why people have to live with cheats and lies coming from ST reports. We have had enough of pap “politician” wanabe living in SPH already. It is good to keep highlighting their deliberate discrepancy reports and all the more justify why I don’t read Straits Times or other pap owned media.
The practical approach is the compare to reachable alternatives. No point comparing to other SWFs if we can do easily copy it. MSCI World is reasonable. But if people think that they can do outperform the market themselves then don’t complain about gahmen not regulating financial products.
You do not expect Temasek Holdings to divulge the answers to the last question.
How much came from state sales of assets? These are national secrets.
What I find irritating is that, while many Singaporeans are out of job, hopes to be able to withdraw cash from the CPF to manage their living expenses, this is not allowed.
I wonder who gave Temasek holdings (CPF monies / Reserves) the mandate to start a charitable arm – when its CPF members cannot even withdraw a cent out for living allowance. Something is just NOT RIGHT.
‘In order for any comparison to be more meaningful, the returns should be for various time periods, like 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years and from inception, and against the same benchmarks.’
Fully agree with this for meaningful analyses. I think the writer has been a bit diplomatic (?) because as far as I am concerned, this should have been a given, and none of us should even demand for it.
‘Assume March ‘09 market value = Nov ‘08 market value’
This is a good catch. Sorry guys, the market value at Mar 09 is only the market value at Mar 09. Are we saying that for such a large amount of funds managed, the best we can do is to get a snapshot of our market value in Nov 08, then assume it applies for Mar 09 ? Even market capitalisations with values much lower than the funds get near daily updates, and sometimes after office trading hours, and we have to live with outdated information on a larger fund ?
Doesn’t matter what returns or losses. What is most important is:
- they still have hundreds of billions left, even after all these losses.
- Singapore is still peaceful and 66% are still OK and PAP can count on them at every election.
- The opposition is still weak and have to give 50% walkovers at every election.
We alwaysdo that! Look at what we use to benchmark salaries of the political elites?
Good analysis…..Temasek….does it still have much funds left?
Now SM Goh mentioned,
they are setting up a govt securities…this money will not be for infrastructure…or for any use but just to keep bonds and other debt instruments a benchmark…..
What joke is this now…why should a govt security be a benchmark…instead of the market..in a free market….the market sets the price…..why should the govt intervene……
What is this money really used for….to shore up Temasek again perhaps….
6) Win election is all that matters on June 27th, 2009 6.28 pm
By your logic, there is no purpose for the existence of blogs like this since the People HAVE ALREADY proven time and time again for HALF a CENTURY that they, in general, indicated by election results, ACCEPT whatever is implemented?
LSH wrote : “Why is it that Temasek’s March 09 market value was not used in the comparison?”
While this is a PERTINENT question, i wonder will it ever get any reply from u-kno-who?
Comparing durians to washing machines
it is already quite clear that singaporean will never take 154th media seriously for actual news.
154 usually is read for only TV program schedule, cinema movies and cartoons only ;)
Another important point…where are the investments located…..
If a large chunk of investments are placed in Singapore…
then was there an independent valuation done…to derive at the figures….
And what policies or guidelines were used….. were they compatible to international standards…..
Wah….so many questions….not just time periods…
of course no answers lah…..
It is about time all online citizens start to question ST lack of integrity, its poor substance and ulterior motive behind every report made. By constantly pointing out their errors, we put all their journlists to shame and encourage people not to read anymore craps coming from TPY news room.
I doubt the people of singapore will ever get an answer unless someone from the insider leaks it out, or unless when the old man kicks the bucket, only maybe more truth will be leak out, if not you people can keep on asking and asking till you goes to your graves, still no answer.
ST published a letter criticising the article. It was a gd analysis of ST’s article.
ST journos and integrity? what a joke
what happened to that journo Irene that married the old Scottish man?
she was a MP wanna be all the years that she was in there. Did she ever write anything of substance or with a critical bent? NO
where is she now? happily collecting salary from NTUC and MP Allowance
most useless journo I’ve seen
aiyoyo
think simple la – GAIN is GAIN; LOSS is LOSS…
wordings just for window dressing la (simple view of mine)
think & implement recovery plan(s) asap & try to recoup the loss la, elites..
sad story – maybe SAF teaching “TAKE COVER”………
aiyoyo
“In comparing Temasek’s returns with other benchmarks from March 1999 to March 2009, there was a footnote that for Temasek, “Assume March ‘09 market value = Nov ‘08 market value”.”
///////////////////////
ST, ST , ST ………….
another interesting article was something about the IR. Although only 60% was ready , it is pleasantly impressive to learn how it could also be reported or described in another way.
must go and buy a copy for sunday. so nice read. every singaporean buys the news especially sunday ones right? just a complain : its too few pages. hahahaha
For me, I am gonna borrow the news. I am trying to save money to pay and pay for the hiked fares. That is , I DOn’t Buy the news.
Leong Sze Hian, I worried for you!
Take Care!
@ 20) ,
yes you are right to worry for Leong Sze Hian, having a hard time deciding whether to turn down the famiLee tea invitation. lol
Anyway, this govt is making a habit of comparing apples with oranges when it suits them. Like not comparing their pay and magnitude of responsibility with top political leaders worldwide.
When one persists in such form of comparison, then it is not unreasonable to assume the intention is to hoodwink.
9) Lee Sia Say
///By your logic, there is no purpose for the existence of blogs like this ////////
Allow me to share this perspective of the TOC community
Based on the TOC’s most popular post with 19,423 post
Assuming none of the 19,423 are repeat views from same people (which is unlikely)
If we can assume this number represents the TOC’s virtual population.
This number will works out to be 0.5% of the population of Singapore of 4 million people.
The reamining 99.5% are not in TOC perhaps for the followingnon exhaustive list of reason.
1. Those who are illiterate
2. Those who do not read/write English
3. Those who are literate in English but are IT illiterate
4. Those who are literate in English and IT literate but unaware of such on-line community sites as TOC
5. Those who are literate in English and IT literate, aware of the site, but do not wish to be part of the on-line community
6.Those who are literate in English and IT literate aware of the site, but do not wish to be part of the on-line community as the do not support the general views of TOC community
A lonely voice in the wilderness.
When leaders start showing such behaviours, they are sowing and nurturing the seeds of a typical national culture.
I’m sorely afraid that the materialistic – self centred culture our ours will change for the worst. In 10 years time if these beahviours continue, we’ll have a culture of very low trust and integrity; alongside the negatives we’re having now.
“Wow!!!” what a society that will be. What family values and relationship we’ll have?
Why do we insist on adding mud to our already muddy, dirty and stinky cultural norms and practices??? Don’t we care for the future generations to which our children and grandchildren belong.
How would you want them to live? This is something no academic achievement nor grades can make a difference.
I basically laff when they said Temasek outdid Warren Buffett…
I mean, who are you trying to kid?
Give a good quote that got published to increase its legitimacy and next time they can boast about it freely?
They really think Singaporeans (less the Scholars) are idiots.
yup. dodgy crap!
the st is unreliable and toe the gahmen line ALWAYS! they have no independent view nor do they investigate anything. they parrot what the gahmen has to say and praise them to kingdom come. no more st or bt for me.
i have decided to punish them by stopping my subscription when the term ends! i can read today and other newspapers or even the st at the library. there si so much crap in it that you usually scan the pages and end up reading the adverts for the best buys and sales!
SPH (ST is part of) pay their “journalists” very well. Many have even become PAP MPs. From the Chinese, Malay and English Division of SPH.
Top pay for top talent.
Has anyone read about story of “Emperor New Clothes”
This is what we going to become One day!
#27,
I wonder if without people pay and pay for the papers, i mean buy and buy and support them , would they pay increase or decrease? I have no idea lah.
#29
They get most of their revenue through advertisements. Not so much from sale of paper. They are almost a monopoly for so long what.
Also they have reserves and investments from other sources which bring in revenue.
People willl still buy to look for adverts, rather than news.
31) Adverts earn money on June 28th, 2009 11.22 pm #29
[They get most of their revenue through advertisements. Not so much from sale of paper. They are almost a monopoly for so long what.]
yes, agree that ads is their revenue contributor.
But the fact remains, without circulation, no ads value.
Just stop currying favour.
Everyone knows both TH and GIC losts
very very heavily and committed the
biggest investment blunder in history.
There’s nothing going to change that
fact.
The public needs to know the full details.
and what accountability is there.
Enough of all the ministerial BS defending
culprits. We are talking about tens of
BULLIONS not cents ok!!!!!
“If we can assume this number represents the TOC’s virtual population.
This number will works out to be 0.5% of the population of Singapore of 4 million people.”
80+ mps. What percentage of the population does this constitute.
“A lonely voice in the wilderness.”
Can this lonely voice be expanded (amplified) with conventional media coverage (like radio & tv) without the need for license or permit.
[i]aPeK, you talk too much kok on June 29th, 2009 10.36 am “If we can assume this number represents the TOC’s virtual population.
This number will works out to be 0.5% of the population of Singapore of 4 million people.”
80+ mps. What percentage of the population does this constitute.
“A lonely voice in the wilderness.”[/i]
here we are
we have 80++ overpaid mps
we only have 0.5% of the population here to discuss in TOC forum
actually we have more than that
TOC still listened and prints
what leekuanyew liked to hear………….
the rest of the populations?
just pay your $214 bills to h1n1 preinspections
to be a considerate carin fellow citizens
33) red_dot on June 29th, 2009 9.05 am
“Just stop currying favour.
Everyone knows both TH and GIC losts
very very heavily and committed the
biggest investment blunder in history.”
Is that true?
If so, would their supporters improve the status quo by demanding for more transparency as in complete transparency (in order to make sense) if indeed they choose to do so? If so, how can this demand be answered? Or just move on?
i agree with u that comparison should be done against its peers i.e other SWF over a consistent period over a long period of time.
SWF has been around for many years expect that it is in the limelight since 2005 as the market starts to see more and more Countries having their own SWFs
and it’s tremendous impact on the equity and commodities market.
Thus it’s not easy to make a direct apple to apple comparison.
What the Govt can do is set a fixed set of comparables and always use it to compare against its own performance
Hey ST – why you only compare Temasek performance with Warrent Buffet ? WHY dun you do a comparison of our PM’s salary with President Obama’s, and comment on whether our PM’s salary is justified ??
“For example, it was recently compared to Harvard’s Endowment, and now to Warren Buffett.”
It is like comparing your own height with the smartest midget.
shameful, deceitful and disgusting for ST’ & its reporter to make such kind of comparison to hide the multi-billion dollar losses by Temasek & GIC.
for the period in the ST’s article, Temasek also owned Singapore Pools which as anyone knows is just money printing business. Singapore Pools was only taken out of Temasek’s portfolio around 2004.
Temasek’s portfolio of Singapore companies included monopolies and oligopolies like PSA, the power stations, SingTel, Starhub, MRT etc which are not open market driven competition. also noted by Leong was basis of injection of public assets into Temasek being valued etc etc etc.
don’t forget also about the differences in RISKS of the entities compared
the main issue which should not be distorted or hide away is why did Temasek invest in Merrill Lynch and why did GIC invest in Citi and UBS when Warren Buffett had mentioned in the CNBC interview that Buffett saw no investment merit but toxic financial of such financial companies; case of FOOLS (GIC/Temasek) VENTURED WHERE ANGEL (WARREN BUFFETT) FAILED TO THREAD.
I am amazed that majority of singaporeans do not want to know clearly about the investments made and even lost by them, so much so that they move on time and time again in terms of not making any significant effort to ensure more transparency.
my hats off to you . for your trust.
Maybe the reporter is right. Maybe the reporter can provide the name list of the “star mangers” in Tamasek responsible for the important deals. We like to know them and have their photos so that we can give them the due recognition. Can somebody help us to obtain this information.
Wayang Shifu