Tan Kin Lian / Columnist
Just pumping funds into the economy will not do. It is also important to curb unemployment, and Singapore can do this by creating new “Economic Recovery” jobs.
Being an open economy, Singapore has been badly affected by the global recession with a severe contraction of the economy in 2009. Many people have lost their jobs.
There is an urgent need to create new “economic recovery” jobs for these displaced workers and new job seekers.
Examples of these jobs are teaching assistants in schools, health care assistants in hospitals, carers to look after children, elderly, disabled and the sick, customer service assistants in train stations, bus terminus, town centers and neighborhoods.
These assistants can reduce the stress from employed people who now have to spend work longer hours to keep their jobs.
I hope that the money that is set aside in the Jobs Credit Scheme can be used to create these “economic recovery” jobs to improve short term employment to large numbers of people and tide them over until the recovery of the global economy.
Availability and Security of Employment
There is now widespread recognition that the key to recovery is the availability, security and fair terms of employment. If people feel secure about their employment, they can continue to spend according to their capacity.
This will create a stable economy that works efficiently and creates the right balance of work and leisure that can give a satisfactory standard of life for the people.
It was once thought that the free market was the best mechanism to ensure that the right goods and services are produced and to give employment to people according to their skills. The global recession has shown the weakness of the free market.
Being largely unregulated, it has attracted large numbers of talented people to work in financial services that was creating false wealth. This system has now largely collapsed.
The free market is now not able to generate the new demand that will create employment for the large number of displaced workers and new entrants to the job market.
To solve this problem, we need a new source of employment, which can only be provided through the public sector. The state has to create new “economic recovery” jobs in the public sector and to build infrastructure.
President Barack Obama recognizes this role for the state. His administration is giving top priority to make this happen quickly. He is employing more teachers, more people to maintain state facilities and similar jobs.
Some people will argue that these public sector jobs may not be the best use of the human resources that can be better utilized in the private sector. This may be true in a few years time, when the economy has returned to good health.
Fair Terms of Employment
A good approach is to make these “economic recovery” jobs pay a minimum wage (and not a generous wage) and be for a term of two or three years only. When the economy is able to generate better paying jobs, the workers can abandon these “economic recovery” jobs and move to the private sector jobs.
The key is to make jobs available to anyone who is willing to work at a minimum wage or higher.
In a weak job market, workers can be exploited with low wages, even by companies that are operating profitably. Unemployed workers will be willing to get a job at any wage. The wages of the existing employed workers will also come under pressure.
If the workers do not get adequate wages, they will reduce their spending, causing delay in the recovery of the economy.
Therefore it is important to ensure that all jobs should give a minimum wage. If there is a supply of “economic recovery” jobs at this minimum age, it will set a floor on the wages in the free market. This will give the confidence to workers to have optimism in the future.
Stimulus spending not enough
In normal times, the free market works well in matching supply and demand and provides choices for people to find suitable jobs and to spend their income on products that best serve their needs.
A major shock, such as the global financial crisis, can cause many people to lose their jobs with a severe impact on the economy. Unemployed people have to curtail their spending. This caused other people to lose their jobs due to reduced demand. Even the supply of credit gets disrupted as bankers become more careful.
The economic experts did not foresee the severity of the collapse of Lehman Brothers on the global economy. If they knew, they would not have allowed this bank to fail.
Its failure has caused so much damage that it needed several trillions of dollars of stimulus spending in America, China and other countries, to stabilize and restore the global system. Even Singapore added its share of stimulus.
There is still much uncertainty regarding the positive contribution of the stimulus packages on the economy. Unemployment continues to rise. Consumer demand continues to fall, although at a slower pace. Economists are worried that these packages will take a long time to work, and recovery will be a slow and painful process.
Not a Planned Economy
Some people will perceive that I am suggested a centrally planned economy, where economic planners or bureaucrats decide on the number of people to be employed in each occupation and the wages to be paid for each occupation.
I am not advocating such a system.
I am suggesting that state should ensure that jobs will always be available at the minimum wage level to any person who is willing to work on these terms for a temporary period. This will provide competition to the private sector to produce goods and services of better value to consumers and be able to pay higher wages.
This will help to make the market economy work more efficiently by reducing exploitation and wastefulness, and giving workers the confidence to consumer according to their stable level of income.
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
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MrTan,
I know that you now will say that I have an agenda against you but I dont as I dont agree with whatever you say.
. I share the views by A Tan that if you have so many “brilliant” ideas while in NTUC, why did you not raise them?
Are you saying that while you were in NTUC, you were not allowed to bring up any ideas and it would seem to sugegst from your reply that it was policy not to speak up at NTUC Income? It also seem to suggest that you did not wish to rock the boat as it affected your career. Please let the whole of Singapore how many polices did you implement that benefitted the workers that were different from the policies implemented by the government?
How is it that once you left NTUC, you have many ideas about how to make Singapore better? Why is it that only now you feel that Singapore policies are not good enough and have no care and concern for the man on the street?
Why do you advocate that Singaporeans should speak up when you chose to remian silent while being the CEO of NTUC Income?
Please dont preach something that you have not practised.
Many people know that i have expressed my views on matters of public interest in the media for the past 20 years. i wrote on many occasions on the burden to our males doing National Service. The government leaders did not like my views at that time.
The issue of low wages became a serious problem only in recent years, due to the influx of foreign workers. Previously, it was not that bad.
Even today, there are many Singaporeans who disagree with the need for a minimum wage. So, there is no need for anyone to take this issue to attack me personally, while remaining anonymous..
Anyway, I usually do not wish to defend my views against anonymous attacks. Some of them have a personal agenda against me, even though they claim that they do not, as they can always lie while remaining anonymous.
kongseeme,
You are not giving an opinion on this issue raised. If you have your own set of views and values, share it. Show us that you are better.
I would have agreed with you if you start making a louder, better and constructive noise now then starting to discredit others.
Is it true that Public Servants are not allowed to comment on political issues in public? Or something like that? I need someone to confirm for me. Would appreciate it, Thanks.
I like to say that Mr Tan Kin Lian is a Role model for all retirees as well as public servants in terms of doing something for the community where people like him is few and far between.
Better late then never.
It is worth supporting and encouraging people to step forward.
There is no shortage of talents per se. See, so many have joined PAP.
The issue is these did not choose to join Opposition to balance the situation for the benefit of ALL and not just people like Kongseeme. this nation belongs to All citizens. Even more are not daring enough to step forward.
Walkovers are not due to talent shortage as much as these talents are not willing to balance the situation by stepping forward. To be fair, there are valid reasons that discourage them. this is why, it is a problem that can only be solved by Collective Effort.
37) David on June 17th, 2009 11.26 pm
“”"”Can anyone here please verify whether SMRT has recruited foreigners over Singaporeans? I can confirm Singapore bus service has recruited many china drivers. If this is seen as a trend, please forget this Singapore govt will help the local people. Anyway another liar in today news said Job credit scheme and 20bil has helped many Singaporean. They are hoping to consolidate 20 lies to make a truth. Simply amazing!”"”"
1. Many True Blooded Singaporeans are hiring many foreigners already. Its called Business. Which singapore company has not hired many foreigners?
2. Pro Business Policies enabled the hiring of numerous foreigners.
3. The more foreigners in the market, I suspect, the wage could be lowered by market forces.
4. Will cost of living go down when it is already hiked?
5. Its not wrong from a business perspective to lower cost.
6. But what solution to protect citizens is another issue.
7. If I were an employer , to choose between a singaporean fresh grad and a foreigner experienced talent , for same cost or lower, why would i not choose a foreigner?
8. But I wonder why European companies not hire more foreigners? Why are europeans paid much higher AND protected more? Boleh tak boleh?
9. Job Statistics consists of PRs as part of the calculation. The more PRs there are and employed, the better the rate can appear. Likewise, vice versa.
A. Statistics compilation and sources of info and who compiles the data.
Waiting for Light at the end of the tunnel, when T-Rex is extinct.
Hi Mr. TKL,
I am one of the 1400+ that signed the online petition, but I would like to clarify that although I don’t always agree with your views; nonetheless, I believe you are truly trying to help.
When I was studying in Australia, I learned on lesson which benefits me till today; that’s life is multi-facet.
While you may think that some of the people might be trying to “attack” you; I believe the reverse is true. Like me, I believe they are finding signs and symptoms that you are “truly” one of the many leaders singapore will need. To help singapore, it’s not only about “intention” to serve, “capability”, “conviction”, “perseverance” and many other values are required to lead the country out of the current “mess” we are in.
Remember the phrase that “the past will come back to haunt you”. In my opinion, PAP’s rule of toeing the party line, unfortunately, has come back to haunt you in this case. Don’t fret, we don’t always win and we aren’t always right; although most of the time we think we are, but to be proven that we are wrong at a later time.
Nonetheless, I can tell, to date, that you truly have the intention to help “singaporeans” within your means. So does MM during the early days of singapore. Why would I say that? Cos action spoke volume.
In my opinion, if you are preparing yourself for President or the General Election, just treat this as the “baptism of fire” that you have to go through. In my opinion, the current “PAP” MPs missed the important part of their political trial due to the GRC systems; a double-edge sword. Yes, PAP win the election, but it costs them their popularity as the GRC system selection criteria is different from that of the SMC.
Hence, I implore you to look through the “attacks” and look beneath the concerns/doubts raised.
@43) Tan Kin Lian, 46) A Tan, 47) Concerned non-typical citizen, 48) kongseeme.
Mr Tan,
Many people like myself have not worked in the public sector, but there is definitely a ground feeling that civil servants have a “mentality problem” – you can’t deny this, right? Whether this mean sticking to the party line or not rocking the boat on issues concerning other depts (known as “not taken responsibility” in the private sector) is too extensive a topic for discussion here. So, there is no personal agenda.
What is hoped is that someone, maybe like yourself, share their experience on how the decision to NOT have a min. salary can prevailed for 50 years in a First World country. As someone mentioned, the Root Causes. Then you can talk with some authority on how there is a chance to change the status quo. If the deliberate lack of min. working conditions is strategy to attract FI into our economy, then we know we are wasting our time. Do educate us.
On one point, however, I hope you can further verify:
<>
Who are the “many Singaporeans”? Govt and employers (oh yeah, also NTUC Union)? 2 out of 3 in our esteemed Triparitie system sure makes the majority vote. Walkover, man!
#53
Couldn’t have put it better. Like you and #47, I think that TKL has some sensible ideas. And I have no issues with him raising these after retirement. As #51 said: Better late then never. Anyway let’s be pragmatic: there is a time for everything.
The problem is that TKL (whether intentional or not) comes across as someone who thinks he has the moral authority to lecture S’poreans on the courage to speak out
Only the late JBJ, and Dr Chee have the moral authority to lecture S’poreans on the courage to speak out. No-one else has this authority. They have this authority because they have suffered for their willingness to speak out.
I think what they say is BS (best friends the PAP ever had), but that is another issue. It does not detract from their courage, and authority.
I remember many years back when I was working in China. China has too many unemployment at that time. The local administrator decided to employ these locals in jobs such as traffic warden (guiding people at pedestrian crossing to ensure smooth traffic condiions), etc. These are senior citizens with a whistle blowing in their mouth doing their part to help the congestion problems. Same here in Singapore, there are so many jobs that can be created part time for Singaporeans. Do we need jobs of car park attendents or wardens to be awarded again to privatised GLC? Can the government authority such as URA and HDB take back all these jobs and provide to the unemployed? Suggestions mentioned in this forum such as MRT train ushers, hospital care asistants, bus interchange ushers, traffic pedestrain crossing usher preventing cyclist from dashing across pedestrian crossing, etc are numerous works that the govt can initiate. These senior citizens can and will ensure the younger generation citizens will listen to their orders. We have courtesy campaign, jay-walking campign, spitting campaign, etc. How much money has been spent on advertisement? Have they improve? having said all these, will these affect the goverment coffers? Yes , OF COURSE! So why would they want to accept our suggestions? They are prepared to put money into upgrading HDB saying that our living environment will improve and property value rises, but is this not wastages! Is this not pump priming the property sector and make everything expensive? The thinking of the govt is always how to make more money from us. Our cost of living has risen too fast and too high.
hi Tan Kin Lian,
please do not take negative comments too personally. this forum is a good platform to discuss, improve ideas. how often are ideas so perfect it draws no criticism?
i also think the posters here are largely a critical (thinking) lot, me included. it is a result of social conditioning, all the better for a nation maturing from infancy. the alternative of a nation with a population of people who accepts things blindly doesn’t bode well.
////Many people know that i have expressed my views on matters of public interest in the media for the past 20 years. i wrote on many occasions on the burden to our males doing National Service.////
from post #49, on June 18th, 2009 10.00 am
eh, there is a disconnect here. how to convince others who are not the many people? & the people may also know many more people who may have not know about you expressing alternative views you claim to have made over the decades.
////Anyway, I usually do not wish to defend my views against anonymous attacks. Some of them have a personal agenda against me, even though they claim that they do not, as they can always lie while remaining anonymous.////
eh, keeping mum is not the way froward leh, lessons from Aware Saga & numerous reports of our country’s financial losses from overseas sources should be enough to learn from. also, why the mindset that comments not in line with you = attack? eh, online forum where got everyone know everybody else? this is what online is about, promoting interaction among people who we would normally not.
so how must attach most recent photo?
Many appears to be Waiting for the ‘right timing’ to ‘step forward’. kekeke
I wonder if people only could step forward when the ‘coast is clear’ (kekekeke)
what sort of leadership could we expect ?
What happens when another ‘they are mediocre’ pops up in future?
Could these talents stand up to the challenge and fight?
Yes, ‘better late then never’ and I would add its now or never.
They have not seen. They have not tasted. They have not experienced.
Its wiser to have a balanced or comparable Ying and Yang.
hi Tan Kin Lian,
post #43, on June 18th, 2009 7.31 am
////As I was working in the NTUC group, it was not proper for me to voice a different opinion at that time.////
so in future, anyone under you, its also not proper to voice a different opinion?
o.O
49) kongseeme
//MrTan, I know that you now will say that I have an agenda against you but I dont as I dont agree with whatever you say.//
I think you manged to contradict yourself. If you don’t have an agenda why do you see a veritable need to disagree with whatever TKL says, regardless?
// I share the views by A Tan that if you have so many “brilliant” ideas while in NTUC, why did you not raise them? //
In case you missed his explanation this was what he wrote in the “Animal Farm” thread, quote :
“During the first 25 years of independence, the PAP was a party of the people. Many people, including me, were proud to be Singaporeans and to be involved in the process of building up a nation. The PAP changed around 1985. That was the time that the focus was on elitism, graduate mothers, etc. There was a departure from equality and the good of the common people. Things got worse over the years. Later, there was the focus on “foreign talents”. While I was employed in NTUC Income, it was not possible for me to take a public position on this matter. But many of our leaders know my private views on this matter.”
That was being prudent as there is a saying that people who live in glass houses should never throw stones.
The culture in Singapore is also such that there are no laws to protect the whistle-blower unlike in the UK which has the “Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 which provides a framework of legal protection for individuals who disclose information of similar concern. It protects whistle-blowers from victimization and dismissal.”
Even the Singaporean author Catherine Lim was excoriated publicly when she wrote to the ST Forum on 3 Sept 1994 a letter entitled “The PAP and the People-A Great Affective Divide.
She opined that “that while Singaporeans respected the PAP’s efficiency and were grateful towards it for bringing Singapore economic success, they lacked any real affection or warmth for the political party.”
This caused the “empire to strike back”. She was asked to “take responsibility for her views and to enter politics if she wished to continuing airing them”.
An OB marker was also put in place all for future commentators.
Even President Eisenhower waited till he left office before he exposed the dangers of the US Military-Industrial-Complex as he could not do so whilst he was still the Commander-in-Chief.
Therefore, there is a time and place for everything and now that TKL is aspiring to enter the political arena he feels it is appropriate for him to make a mission statement. That to me is the mark of a courageous gentleman which is a rare specie in Singapore nowadays.
errata : “I think you managed to contradict yourself. If you don’t have an agenda why do you see a veritable need to disagree with whatever TKL says, regardless?”
To: 58) Mahbubanu Gani – good at children story telling
Your “kekeke” sounds cynical in case you don’t realise.
Many appears to be Waiting for the ‘right timing’ to ’step forward’. kekeke
>> To do anything, the basic needs must be taken care of; and different individual basic needs are different. In my opinion, to step forward as an “alternative” voice is already a big “step” under the current social-political climate.
I wonder if people only could step forward when the ‘coast is clear’ (kekekeke)
>> The coast is not clear for the opposition, in case you’re not aware. The coast is only clear for PAP.
what sort of leadership could we expect ?
>> Valid question, but have you given him the time and opportunity to prove to you? Or you write him off the first mistake you can find. Look at PAP, how many “unpopular” policies they have implemented. Care to name one PAP MP you “voted” or “admire” using your criteria.
The past is telltale sign of what the future will be, it does not guarantee what the future will become because being human, we have a choice to decide/influence the outcome.
Moreover, an ex-convict, truly repentant, will have better morality and integrity than most people.
59) Mahbubanu Gani – good at children story telling on June 18th, 2009 2.51 pm
//Many appears to be Waiting for the ‘right timing’ to ’step forward’. kekeke
I wonder if people only could step forward when the ‘coast is clear’ (kekekeke)
what sort of leadership could we expect ?//
In the “Art of War”, Sun Tze once said that ” Good generals put themselves BEYOND the possibility of defeat first and then wait for an opportunity to defeat the enemy.”
IMHO, that is what TKL is doing or ought to be doing before he enters the fray to take on the awesome electoral machinery of the “empire”.
//Yes, ‘better late then never’ and I would add its now or never.//
You are right here.
Some people think that they can attack an idea by attacking a person. There is no need for this approach. Let us focus on the idea. If you disagree with the idea, give another idea and your reason.
Hi forties
Thank you for your excellent contribution ( #56)
The leaders in China are practical and they do things that benefit the people at large. Creating low paying jobs to keep many people employed is a great idea. You have given many excellent examples, which I agree with.
In the late 80s, I visited China and met a deputy Prime Minister. What he said impressed me a lot. He said that the biggest challenge facing the leadership of China is how to create jobs for the many people who were employed in state enterprises that had excess workers and had to be retrenched. China managed to solve this problem successfully, by expanding its export sector.
With the collapse of global demand, China is now focusing on expanding its domestic sector. I believe that their approach is likely to succeed. They follow policies that are more suited to the conditions, rather than some blind management theory.
I agree with your observation that the leaders in Singapore spent too much money on hardware and software and make things too expensive in Singapore. It is better that the money be spent to creat jobs to keep people usefully occupied, according to their ability.
Hi Monopoly #20
I agree with your suggestion in #20. There are advantages in letting many small businesses thrive, rather than be pushed out by the big companies. In USA, they have anti-trust and other agencies to protect the small businesses. It contributed to the democratisation of the market place, rather than to have a few large players that dominate the market.
Hi #54 theforgottongeneration
You said
What is hoped is that someone, maybe like yourself, share their experience on how the decision to NOT have a min. salary can prevailed for 50 years in a First World country. As someone mentioned, the Root Causes. Then you can talk with some authority on how there is a chance to change the status quo. If the deliberate lack of min. working conditions is strategy to attract FI into our economy, then we know we are wasting our time. Do educate us.
The argument against the minimum wage was put forward by our government leaders for 25 years. They said that a minimum wage will drive jobs to other low cost countries. Nobody was willing to even discuss the merits of minimum wage with an open mind. I believe that this is the thinking of one man, and nobody dare to hold a different view – even in private.
Many Singaporeans (who had jobs) were convinced that the wages should be left to the free market. Once they lose their jobs and had to take a low paying job, they will hold a different view. This is Singapore. How sad!
An artificial job creation by the Government will lead to higher expenses which they will have a big problem to balance the budget or minimize digging into the reserves. In fact I think the Government has said (At least they claim) that they are increasing a large number of teachers, police and nurses and they are extending the retirement age of SAF officers, etc. They are creating the “economic recovery” jobs.
The problem I understand with this is that a lot of “new” citizens are vying for these limited jobs.
Hi SotongBall #68
I agree that the Government is creating some of these “economic recovery” jobs. But they can do more. There are many unemployed people. We need all workers to feel secure that they can get a job, at least at minimum wage.
hi Tan Kin Lian, on June 18th, 2009 5.52 pm
////Many Singaporeans (who had jobs) were convinced that the wages should be left to the free market. Once they lose their jobs and had to take a low paying job, they will hold a different view. This is Singapore. How sad!////
this is so true, lots of selfish individuals who do not see beyond their own needs. the lack of empathy maybe?
@41) tiredman,
We got our NS concept from the Israelis, they are damned good soldiers. Too bad we pick and choose what to adopt… I hope you tell your kids to NEVER leave a man behind.
Recall: we pump millions & resources into getting an Olympic silver medal, aka using FTs. No problems, we should be proud – first world country should have first world achievements. However, in the immediate years to that silver, a Singaporean with only $12 left in his wallet jumped in front of an MRT train. He was one of the “unfortunates” that fell through the layers of our welfare system… Per sec, no accountability from the authorities — every welfare dept pointing to another dept that his case was their responsibility. Perhaps a couple of hundreds bucks off the useless STTA president’s MP salary per month ($14K?) into this man account could save him & grief to his family. Anyway, move on…. we were talking “Economic Recovery” jobs in current recession, right?
@67) Tan Kin Lian,
Thks for the info. Then we ARE wasting out time talking about having a min. wage system. So too for every other issue Singaporeans would care to bring up since there is no recourse if it doesn’t fit the ‘official’ stand.
I then further agree with a couple of folks here (& yourself) that this is indeed sad for Singapore. Thousands in the public sector, great and small, but none dare to stand up for something affecting the people’s rice bowl.
Now it is confirmed why many Singaporeans are jumping ship and that our fertility rate is so low — I wouldn’t want my children to serve NS and then not guarantee even a fair wage when they start working. Maybe they even have to cut their asking salary to out-bid the FTs.
Move on… we have BIGGER problems than just Economic Recovery jobs.
72) theforgottongeneration
Issues are interlinked… right?
“…we were talking “Economic Recovery” jobs in current recession, right?”
There will always be an economic recovery and jobs can be recreated. Like I have said, we are not guaranteed if the employer is going to employ a local. Would the job be given to a foreigner instead?
I don’t see how gahman can effectively influence the decision. What had happen during the good time can happen again. How much can I trust the gahman? The problem is I feel I am a foreigner living in the space I breathe in for the past 27 years. The only different is that I have to serve.
I have seen on just one case happened to one of my family members and seen and hear many other stories of employers exploiting the elderly and the lowly skilled workers. I have no confident with this gahman. Most of the news in the papers is rubbish. The only section readable is international news. However, I am glad while suspicious, that in gahman statistic, low income worker wage is on the rise.
If there are no changes to the current situation in the coming years, or/and I still feel insecure and I can be easily replaced by a foreigner, I have left with no choice but make early decision and perhaps to take my parent and my children (if I have one in future) and leave when opportunities arises. Just like what SAM has said in his blog:
Quote
“I will also not give you son(s) if I had children; you can go “buy” other children, and defend what’s yours.”
However, I hate to leave but trust is just not an one sided issue. I hope there is a change. If not loyalty just cannot fill my stomach. Isn’t it true?
64) Tan Kin Lian on June 18th, 2009 5.24 pm
“”"Some people think that they can attack an idea by attacking a person. There is no need for this approach. Let us focus on the idea. If you disagree with the idea, give another idea and your reason.”"”
Bravo! Mr Tan. :)
One good deed deserves another, so to speak.
What i mean is, there are some people who would use this technique of asking the other party to give a better solution when someone dissent against him or his views.
I am sure like this many would not attack as often. One good technique can be re-used in the opposite direction.
hahahaha.
Hi PMETee #74
It is quite easy to propose an alternative strategy. I do it all the time. I do not need to attack any person, or to pass my judgement on any idea. I just aruge for an alternative solution.
For example, the Government has been saying that a minimum wage will force jobs to go overseas. I point out that there are many service jobs that must be done in Singapore and cannot go overeas. We only need to be wililng to pay a higher price for these services, so that the workers can enjoy a more decent wage.
Some people then argue that this will increase the cost of living in Singapore. I hold a different view. The cost of living can be kept affordable, if rental and property prices, shareholder profits and management salaires are kept at a reasonable level (instead of being allowed to be maximised).
I do not have to pass judgement on othe rpeople’s ideas or attack any person for what they believe it. I hope that commentors can observe the same courtesy and fairness to other commentors.
I hope that
i would like a reply to post #57, on June 18th, 2009 2.41 pm
i raised some points leh. not 1st time kenna stonewalled. :(
75) Tan Kin Lian
//I do not have to pass judgement on othe rpeople’s ideas or attack any person for what they believe it. I hope that commentors can observe the same courtesy and fairness to other commentors///
Words of wisdom.
76) mice is nice
I am sidetracking, (lookl like it getting to be my trademark : ) )
On the subject of stonewalling, You may have observed that I am now stone walling some posters who have been resorting to personal and charactor attacks with mutiple nicks.
Quite silly really for one anonymous bloke to be attacking onother anonymous bloke’s charactor when nobody knows nobody.
It is my personal choice to stonewall these posters so as not to give these posters the attention they are craving for. I want to engage in constructive and useful debate.
75) Tan Kin Lian on June 18th, 2009 10.56 pm
“”Hi PMETee #74
It is quite easy to propose an alternative strategy. I do it all the time. “”
Agree. Consultants would know that for any problem, there are numerous ways and solutions that can work. Sometimes, trial-n-error may even reap great dividends. And thus, I am confident there is Room for an Alternate Team, at least 1. There is no such thing as the best solution. Current solution can always become inadequate over time if not already not the right solution. Change is the only constant.
“”"For example, the Government has been saying that a minimum wage will force jobs to go overseas. I point out that there are many service jobs that must be done in Singapore and cannot go overeas. We only need to be wililng to pay a higher price for these services, so that the workers can enjoy a more decent wage.”"
Agree. We have min wage already , unofficially speaking, and that is certain jobs minimumly is paid 1 million a month and this has not been said to be bad but good. So, unofficially, based on my observation, there is already a min wage in place but at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Also, agree that pay more can lead to better service. Certain jobs already are said to be reaping dividends by paying a min wage of 1 million a month.
The key is to implement it in a way to KEEP THESE min wage workers (not proper to say Servants) ON THEIR TOES. So, it is effectively enforceable solution based on this Condition.
And that is my 1.01 cents.
Some people then argue that this will increase the cost of living in Singapore. I hold a different view. The cost of living can be kept affordable, if rental and property prices, shareholder profits and management salaires are kept at a reasonable level (instead of being allowed to be maximised).
Errata: please ignore the last para which is from our Mr TKL.
hi KopitiamApek,
if i did resort to personal or charactor attacks then different story lah, but as for my post #57, on June 18th, 2009 2.41 pm. is there any?
your opinion,
////Quite silly really for one anonymous bloke to be attacking onother anonymous bloke’s charactor when nobody knows nobody.////
quite true, except that Mr Tan Kin Lian is a rather well known figure after speaking up in People’s Corner some months back.
maybe when i pointed out something less than flattering in the following article….
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/job-satisfaction-inadequate-measures-to-protect-workers/
post #74) mice is nice on June 7th, 2009 12.21 am.
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when differences in opinion on a subject is viewed as a personal attack, that is a cause for concern. there are many examples in TOC alone, it does take too much effort to search.
somewhere in TOC i mentioned before, humans attachment tothings. therefore some see it as a personal attack? not that there is no such thing, just how it can be defined conveniently to avoid a topic sometimes.
There has been a lot of talk about Minimum wage; did anyone suggest how much should it be? $800, $1000, $1200?
My Foreign Talent foot massager from China earns $800 per month. Setting minimum wage to a $1000, means this FT worker makes $200 more per month? Or the employer will prefer to hire a Singaporean for the same pay? My bet is that the FT gets paid $200 more. How do we ensure that a viable minimum wage scheme without controlling influx of FT who become new citizens?
With the Government pushing for a 6.5million population and then10million population; with no protection for “native Singaporean” jobs, a minimum wage system will not work at all.
#9 and other sceptics of TKL’s approach of getting people to raise their views
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8106526.stm
China again gives way because its people object.
Suppose 100,000 economic recovery jobs are created paying a minimum wage of $6 per hour (or $1,000 per month), the annual cost to the nation is slightly more than $1 billion. This is small, compared to the money spent on the stimulus package introduced earlier this year or the money lost on the bad investments in global banks.
The $1 billion spent in the economy by 100,000 families will create additional demand for small businesses and other services. A large part of it will be spend in the domestic economy, instead of leaking overseas.
More importantly, it will give the confidence to 100,000 people that they have the security of a job. Other unemployed people will also feel that there is a safety net, even if they should lose their job.
More importantly
Mr Tan, I respect your views and applaud your contributions. No doubt that the money lost on bad investments could be put to better use as you suggest.
I personally do not oppose the minimum wage scheme if there is a way to ensure that native Singaporeans get the better end of the stick. But we have to also be mindful that business costs will surely increase.
I do not think that creating jobs artificially will be good in the long run as it is a huge burden on the nation. As it is, I believe there are already many redundancies in the civil service. However if this is a two – three year thing, I think it serves the purpose as you suggests. The Government did implement (in a smaller scale) a scheme (with some acronym I cant remember) that supports fresh local graduates entering the job market this year with a stipend of $1k+ to 2k. Companies have an option of topping up a little on the pay and hire these fresh graduates. I am not sure the take up rate or the scope of the scheme but seems like a smaller scale of what you are proposing.
If this recession in Singapore is cyclical one (as Govt says) and not a structural problem in our economy, I believe that stop gap measures as proposed by Mr Tan or some Government measures will help. However if there is a structural problem with our economy (I am mindful that MNCs have been relocating to lower costs locations in the last ten years because of our rising business costs, we are ahead of the world in entering this recession and most importantly we have to start casinos in Singapore to fill the void in our GDP left by the exodus of MNCs), then the stop gap measures will only delay the eventual.
To tackle an ailing economy, it’s best to use demand and supply management solutions. Govt can subsidise its population in terms of lower cost of living and at the same time reduce the no. of projects we are doing now that actually cause this slowdown in GDP growth.
Problem is, is our govt doing so? I still see the govt building this and that, but not for a necessary purpose. Take Circle Line for eg, if there were demand for it in the first place, SMRT could recover its budget even if they don’t peg the fares to that of NEL. Same thing for KPE or MCE. You build an expressway and you put ERPs there. Obviously you’re trying to earn $$$, main purpose is not to solve traffic problems.
Ok, it should by now be Absolutely Clear
that UNEmployment Statistics can be made to 1% or lower, easily based on Solutions suggested in this Blog. That is , Insurance Agents are considered Employed if not As Self-Employed. The barrier to entry is quite low. There are just too many jobs or ways to make someone employed.
We know the REAL Issue is INCOME.
A PMET used to earn, say, $4000 / mth with 5 years work experience.
Now, retrenched, he is unemployed for 6 months not because of his lack of skills but the Lack of Jobs Created. Suddenly, he is no more in the unemployment statistic. He registered a business, where he has to 1st clear his outstanding medisave payment if any. He is now promoted to the post of Director and Boss.
His income is Zero due to the market conditions. He however contributes to the economy and country by generating revenue for others. He pay and pay the rentals, startup capital, even an employee.
get the drift?
@72) tiredman
So, U served army, working now, competiting with FT/FWs? Voted how many times, huh? Singapore welcomes another Second Class citizen! Ha, ha… no offense, lah.
Sure, things are much interlinked. Of the head maybe something like:
2-is-enough policy –> hurrah, GDP growing –> not enough manpower to grow GDP –> get women to enter workforce by upping cost of living –> kids raising –> get foreign maids (3rd industry = more GDP, hurrah) –> maid salary is low, but so what, “population” & GDP is up –> culture that low wages are OK takes root –> more women working = no time for more babies –> get in FTs, screw those that have done NS –> more GDP, yes, yes –> recal. Spore can actually substantiate 6m –> Oops, 25-40 years ago, did not produce enough babies for the 25-40 year-old workers needed now (huh, what long-term KPI?) –> get more FT/FWs, pay them low, pocket high earnings –> low wages now an essential driver –> GDP up, up –> 1/3 populace FT/FW –> probably less than 25% populace ever served NS = minority = can walkover them –> free trade/open market = S’poreans compete openly with FTs/FWs, best (aka cheapest) man wins –> screwing those that have done NS is SOP –> high GDP = higher MPs pay –> Recession –> garmen sotong lau…
From Mr Tan’s explanation @67, I gather it kinda tie in with the policies of attracting foreign MNCs & growing at all costs. The main aim is GDP growth, not the total growth of Singapore. They pull in some MNCs/IRs, these generate GDP/taxes revenue, you think it is relevant whether locals or FTs/FWs are employed? Big projects on-going, great to boost GDP number, need cheap masses of labor, so what they are housed in pigeon holes. S’poreans want to work, pay cheap, cheap!!
Actually, there is one area where many, many jobs can be created for Singaporeans that would have a huge impact on our productivity when the economy recovers: renewable energy.
It is surprising that given skyrocketing energy prices in recent years and our dependence on oil imports, we have not seen a greater push by the govt to promote renewable energy. We are now far behind US and China (as a percentage of GDP) in govt investment into R&D, education and conversion to renewable energy. This will come back to bite us when the global economy recovers and fossil energy prices skyrocket due to peak oil and inflation.
Possible govt policies:
1. Offer grants and scholarships for degrees in environment engineering, solar energy, wind energy, etc.
2. Offer incentives for ‘clean energy’ buildings. HDB should take the lead here as well.
3. (2) will create jobs for a new industry in retrofitting the buildings in Singapore to be more energy efficient.
Instead of seeing more condos built with glass nowadays, that will cost more to air-condition due to the greenhouse effect, I hope to see the glass coated with thin-film solar panels one day.
Actually, EDB did highlight this as a source of growth back in 2007. But their focus is more in R&D and manufacturing for the export market. Why not start at home first? Instead of spending billions to subsidize businesses that are no longer viable, why not channel the money into a sunrise industry?
http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/news/articles/Singapore_s_Clean_Energy_Industry__A_New__Sustainable_Way_Of_Doing_Business.html
I believe there is a lot of Room for an Alternate Solution Team.
Democrats – Republican model is highly recommended, according to me.
With populations increased substantially already in a crowded dot,
I say its now or never. Its about time the people support an Alternate Solution Team.
Some may demand alternate solution be shown. I say it has to be patented 1st.
comments about public sector economy recovery jobs:
- how can we decide which jobs are useful and which jobs merely force artificial employment at the expense of the tax payers?
- how do we withdraw this temporary economy recovery jobs when the economy recovers without creating an unpopular public out-cry?
- i think the agenda of providing employment to low-wage workers is a kind one but it should be linked to spearheading a new way to run the economy. the effectiveness of public sector driven employment as a means to boost the economy in Singapore is much less than the USA.
@89) Panache
Have you tried following up on the Sustainability Initiative mentioned 1-2 months back? Said to have 18,000 jobs potential. Supposed to be a 5 ministries co-ordinating task but no one able to commit where those 18K jobs are. Usual jump from one dept to another, last connection was to a Police Station! Take the newspaper adv. showing a successful XXX with a LARGE pinch of salt too!
The main thrust appears to be sustaining exisitng building efficiency, training, training, training…, not Renewables nor alternate sources.
This is what I meant above posting where we should have given a bunch of our scholars seed money for startup and tell them to “swim or die”. We are now at least 5-8 years behind in adopting solar. As usual, probably waiting for NREL to build their solar plant here, so we can frog-leap all the development efforts & then “choo lek” some tech from them. Probably give us the 1st generation PV or at best 2G stuff. Current world trend is into 3G. Ain’t we smart in attracting MNCs!
Sorry, don’t mean to discourage you. These are purely my experiences/views. Better luck to you … PLS post me if you found otherwise..
PS. maybe you could do a simple study on energy requirement using thin-film tech, the cost, efficiency, etc… for a simple house. Let me give U a leg up — insolation of Spore = 4.6.
renewable energy in singapore to boost jobs:
- my speculation? renewable energy may be able to provide short-term employment but it’s unlikely to provide sustainable employment because (1) solar energy is still expensive and more R&D is still needed to lower the cost and (2) unlike the USA market, our local demand is insufficient to cover all the development cost. [Water technology is a die-die need once the pact stops so the government is will to invest...]
- without a larger market to sustain this business, any sole investment doesn’t seem favourable. we can experiment with some seed money at the most, but hopes are probably not too high… joint venture, may be… but the hard part is to convince foreign investors…
Hi #92 some comments
You asked
- how can we decide which jobs are useful and which jobs merely force artificial employment at the expense of the tax payers?
- how do we withdraw this temporary economy recovery jobs when the economy recovers without creating an unpopular public out-cry?
I have already mentioned some categories of jobs in the education, health, social, welfare, environment, safety sectors. Most of these jobs are to be assistants to full time workers. This will help to reduce their workload and stress.
When the economy recovers, many of these workers will move to higher paying jobs in the private sector ,rather than be stuck in the economic recovery jobs paying minimum wage. I do not foresee any outcry.
Thanks for asking.
Isn’t MOE already expanding their teacher recruitment during this time?
The civil service always acts as the kind of unemployment insurance you are mentioning here.
hi Tan Kin Lian (June 19th, 2009 3.29 pm),
////When the economy recovers, many of these workers will move to higher paying jobs in the private sector ,rather than be stuck in the economic recovery jobs paying minimum wage. I do not foresee any outcry.////
what are the higher paying jobs that will appear?
how do you know that many will move on?
how to acertain the economy really recover for good, & not just grow another bubble that will burst again some years down the road?