The latest revelation by Reuters that Temasek has off-loaded its stakes in Barclays Bank, resulting in an estimated loss of more than a billion dollars, is worrying. This comes on the heels of Temasek shedding its shares in the Bank of America in May. What is of more concern is that these losses were not revealed by Temasek or the government but by foreign news agencies and securities filing in the United States.
Even in Parliament, where several MPs called for more transparency, ministers continue to insist that Singapore’s Sovereign Wealth Funds (Temasek and the GIC) invest for the “long term”, contradicting the latest actions by these funds.
It seems that even our Members of Parliament are helpless in demanding transparency from these two funds.
The following video is from Singapore News Alternative.
When we invest, we are investing for 10, 15, 20 years. You may look as if you are making a big loss today, but you have not borrowed money to invest. You will ride the storm, the company recovers, your shares go up.
MM Lee Kuan Yew, February 2009, Channel NewsAsia
We’ll most probably stay with the financials… Eventually, it must recover. It is the circulation system of the world.
MM Lee Kuan Yew, March 2009, Reuters
Temasek is a long term investor, not a short term trader of assets.
Finance Minister, Tharman Shanmugaratnam, May 2009, Straits Times
Temasek sold its near 2 percent stake [in Barclays Bank] in December [2008] and January [2009]..
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dont want to raise expectations of the people? Alright, I’m sure the pit is still far from bottoming out.
what will happen to singapore, assuming all the entire reserve are being wiped out completely?
when that happens, the country collapses, crooks flee the country with billions, chaos, looting, rioting. It will be a deja vu of the fifties until a few good men restore peace and that begins another great new chapter of the history of Singapore. And it will suddenly dawn upon Singaporeans what Obama meant by some people getting on the wrong side of history.
4) notalone
Common, I am sure you will not hit a women.
But then again, is that a woman?
While she is still drawing salary from Temasek (until October 2009), how can she follow her husband touring countries or attending functions during office hours?
If it is important or mandatory for the spouse of PM to be around during state visits, then dont appoint her to such important role in the first place!
Probably she not at fault after all, those people who appointed her are the main culprits!
AWOL from Temasek to accompany husband for State functions. Only non-democratic and non-law abiding countries do such things.
5) KopitiamApek
Your remarks hurts more then a punch!
Poor can become rich through stock and millionnaire can become poor once again through stocks. Wonder how many times or reliable can one lost or earn in stock markets? Even experienced player like Millionnaire Ooi can lost 1 billion through the stock market.
9) view
Ooi did not lose the 1B in stock market but in other instruments. But we understand your point. Thank you.
words of a longterm winner “eventually i will strike it big”.
but for now, you must place (all) your bets on me lah…
The people keep voting PAP into power for 5 decades and see nothing wrong as it has delivered the goodies and the material life. One fine day, it misgoverns, screws up and sinks us, like it has done.
Bertrand Russell said: The man who has fed the chicken everyday throughout its life at last wrings its neck instead, showing that refined views as to the uniformity of nature would have been useful to the chicken!
aiyoyo
elites talk talk talk, then invest loss loss loss, then commoners how how how?
cpf when take out when when when?
aiyoyo
scary – is she impeachable?
Also I read inderjit’s response to NEA request for a committee to review the temporary markets.
It was again a grand scheme – NEA not doing its job and subcontracting out its key responsibilities after the Indian rojak incident. And people are not buying into their arguments.
TOC should look into this and support deserving PAP MPs in their views.
Rgds
As stated in my previous comments, I still don’t get it why GIC and Temasek went to invest in troubled US Banks in the first place, the cause of this global recession. Very amateurish investment strategy.
Long term investment means “hold it till death do us apart”. Reinvestment of dividends using the law of compounding. Albert Einstein mentioned the law of compounding is one of the great wonders of the world. Things just get compounded.
The period where Temasek and GIC offload their banking shares is the period where it feels like it doom, doom, doom. That is the worse time to offload shares when prices are so depressed. It pains me that they miss the stock market rally after march till now. Their losses would be a lot less if they are to offload the troubled banking shares now. They are making the mistakes very common people will do, nothing special about the investment managers in Temasek and GIC.
***I really wish they had offloaded their shares during this bear market rally. They miss it by 1-2 months. Losses could have been less.
Good news I feel is that I hope they learnt their lesson after seeing them buying shares of Olam International, a commodity firm. Its an area where you can see potential growth in it. Commodities are real assets. Olam International may not be the best commodity firm to invest in but its certainly a better move. The propects are better.
I do not expect Temasek and GIC to beat certain indexes every year. As a normal Singaporean, I just hope that they can protect our wealth, make good, wise, conservative, long term investments. In other words protect our wealth.
#14 Ghim Moh resident…
That is why they got the Chip…he was an oil man…poor fellow…wrong company dude…(i have a feeling, he will leave soon)
These people are outright stupid, at Temasek….proberbly copied or got someone else to write their assignments in Uni…
This is how mush they lost …….$38 Billion…this is how it looks…
$ 38.000,000,000.——-ordinary S’porean makes $1,800 per month.
If someone had stopped these goondu’s……All Singaporeans could be going on world tour for free….
Now I wonder where rest of the investments lie…
all proberbly in Singapore properties, i suppose…..that’s why rents not coming down….and niether the property market( too little, for such a big mess)…..
I wonder how long they will hold….Since, 1992..there have been too much of credit loosening…..all being held by 1 factor….JOBS….now with them slowly going….govt has introduced another policy….Immigration…..
with no jobs…why would there be Immigration…..I am so excited, what other plans…the govt can come up with…..
#13,
Support deserving PAP MPs? IMHO, this is a freaking wayang show…..ask a few questions about NEA, GIC, TH, etc, etc and show people about diverse views in PAP, but end result is chicken egg. If these so called deserving PAP MPs really care about what they believe in, they should do more than just bring up these views in parliament. Its just like Speaker’s Corner only difference is that it is not in Hong Lim park.
The People had voted in a team of what is known as creme dela creme.
The People let them handle.
The People, You.
“I can see clearly now….”
Post no.5. people can apply for leave u dont know meh
What could be the reaction or result if such level of performance happen in true 1st world standard , world class capitals of the world?
I wonder like the lemon tree.
Have you woken up yet?
Yes, We Can!
HLP today.
Are these “TOP NOTch” trying to ruin Singapore? is someone going to kick the bucket that our money should also go down with him? Please note that Singaporeans own Singapore and all the monies with it. Our monies do not belong to one person alone and manipulated for his self-gratifying whims n fancies.
People why scared about Transparency?
All these People’s Representatives are in the house
to represent you, by definition.
So, I am sure 1 of them would have asked PM and or that Tharman
is it
True / False?
Very simple wan.
We elected them and they are paid to do the job, handsomely.
We should play our role as Stakeholders by DEMANDING they perform and inform and clarify.
For this is only fair thing we do.
IF 80 people could not do the job of clarifying and getting solid answers, I don’t know what can. Our future in the hands of these people. We are responsible for putting them there, those elected ones that is.
Mr. Tharman, as the Finance Minister, we need to seek explanation than some lame excuses.
What is TH’s reason of buying high and selling low on Barclays and BOA?
Why buy them in the 1st place when we know that its the American Banking industry that is the cause of the meltdown.
Wasn’t there any due diligence done?
I am sure TH hired heaps of foreign talent advisors.
Did TH got duped by this talent and yet are rewarded handsomely?
If so, than we are in deep deep sh*t!!!
We the People only know bits and pieaces.
That is one reason possibly why people can only form questions and posts are full of question marks.
There is a saying:
Solution can only come from Quality Research data that is made Accessible and Available. Without the missing jigsaw pieces, the whole picture is not clear.
The fact remains its the People who selected the leaders who are given the powers.
I rest my case.
What is TH’s reason of buying high and selling low on Barclays and BOA?
Something is fishy from the string of investments made by TH & GIC. Ever wonder why there are so many investments made went almost bust? is it mistakes or is it deliberate?
5) notalone on June 6th, 2009 1.39 am
Please do not complain about she is with her husband and not doing her duty in Temasek…. She was doing her duty and see how much of the nation’s monies she lose. The more she do the more we will lose…. please ….let her go anywhere she want …. just don’t come back and handle anymore investments…. We may still have a less miserable live.
The government has never been honest to us …. BTW we voted them in for 50 years…. it is our fault. I have come to a point where I do not trust anything they claimed and said. I do not even believe the media and the news because it is moderated (controlled). We are only let to know what they want us to know. Sound like some communist country I know, but we all have been taken for a ride of our live for 50 years.
The day when a new government come to power, they will have to fled the country but surely they will enjoyed their sinful lives somewhere else with our monies.
You want to know the truth? Vote for a new government.
Dear Joel Low @26,
“You want to know the truth? Vote for a new government.”
To be Bluntly Honest, there are more talents than enough for 2 strong parties – PAP and WP.
The 80 in the house already shows the many talents available.
Add to this, all the lawyers who never cheat clients,
you get a ton of talents who Qualify.
But these don’t choose to run for election. what to do?
So, clearly to me, 2 strong parties is already possible. No one can question this fact. singapore is so small, how many hundred leaders do we need in the house?
Minister Tharman already put it upfront – TMSK has already made gains big enough that it outperform the benchmark even with all these losses. So HO CHING is performed well and she deserved BIG bonus!!
#19) Plumber
Thanks for clarifying and of course we know there is such thing as taking leaves from work.
But my point is, is she the appropriate candidate and is she up to the mark to juggle between appointments and roles?
Besides blaming on external factors, if HC couldn’t perform (Micropolis incident had already provided an answer to the whole world except to her family members), she doesn’t deserve to be the CEO of Temasek at all, let alone taking leaves from work (and dont bet she applied for it).
To HC and her family members.. Come on! You guys are not the only talents in Singapore and dont treat the rest of the world like idiots.
27) I live and lease in the fastest Road-legal SuperCar Nissan GTR R35 3 room type R on June 6th, 2009 2.23 pm
Pardon my stupidity, what does whatever you have uttered in any way linked or reference to what I have said?
And … 2 STRONG parties? strong meaning 2 MPs? There are tons of talented people around, but honest and committed ones are hard to find. Whta are you getting at?
PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF IN SIMPLER Language, I cannot understand your Chimilogy…….
It really amazes me that in Singapore, we are so short of talents that certain high positions in our Govt & GLCs are always reserved for certain family members even when it is so apparent now that such family members are ill equiped for such high positions.
Positions such as Prime Minister, Home Minister, Temasek CEO, previous Singtel CEO, etc.
It is understandable if Singapore is a family runned business. But if it is not, what is the word they used to refer to appointing one’s own family members to high positions in public service ? I remembered some foreign news agency got sued for using such words ?
Now that we have witnessed such possible conflict of interests, where is the accountability ? Can the culprits please own up ?
Do they think they are playing with Monopoly money?? Lose a few billion dollars here and there…..with no one being held accountable.
i ask you this hor,
Why you behave differently than other 1st world citizens when it comes to such thingy?
can you impress me with your 1st world answer or not?
Don’t hold your breath but the only time we’re going to get any transparency and accountability out of Temasek, GIC or this government is when the PAP gets voted out of office.
If you guys want the right person to response to this issue.Wait long long till the next life. They will keep quiet till everything settle down and give all of you some goodies to keep mouth shut!
There is so much cover-up of the truth. Nothing seems truthful anymore.
Whatever they (PAP) do, they sing their own tune. The stronger the dynasty, the greater the secrecy. The ruling party answers to no one but their own conscience.
Nothing will change, if we the citizens do not initiate the change for a more accountable government. We the citizens need to act with our right conscience to the goverrnment’s guilty conscience of their wrong doing and not answerable to it.
The government has swept all the dirt under the carpet. Singaporeans are not idiots. Outwardly showing the world the successful records of their rule.
t
The irony of a authoritarian system. The power of rule by one party.
Guys and Gals,
Look at all the postings in this blog since the many it started a few years ago.
All the Questions can be compiled into an encyclopedia liao.
Where are the answers?
Singapore lacks a Malaysiakini level blog.
With due respect , this one is close but no cigar.
To me, having an MP asking the pertinent question is not sufficient.
He / she must be able to get the answer.
Anyone can ask a question.
But does asking mean an answer need to be given? An answer that directly answers the question.
Pay me 1k a month will ask for you all questions you want to be asked.
Answers not included. Direct answers, that is.
possibility 1. TH saw the market crash like no tomorrow, and instead of waiting for Barclay and BOA to be nationalise and their investment all gone, they rather cut and recover whatever that is left of their investment.
possibility 2. TH leverage on their investment, betting up 10 to 20 times of what they had. When the market start crashing down, they kena margin call and was force to dispose some of their investment as they have no more money to top up.
As MM Lee gets older, he should talk Less (spend time with his ailing wife).
“Long term investing for 10, 15, 20 years……” MM Lee is a sweet talker cos he is a lawyer. But many know after 10 year or more (or less) when he is no longer around, he or his son no longer bear the liability of losses in Temasek as Temasek “will be handing” over to Goodyear later this year.
Tharman Shanmugaratnam is just a puppet spokeman.
The Trust & Confidence towards Temasek & Govt is slowly but surely corroding off. That why PM Lee is willing to give “discount” for 9 seats to Opposition.
GST cannot be reduced during recession. CPF cannot be taken out by senior citizens. These are signs that Temasek / GIC (poor investment in Lehman Brother, Merrill Lynch etc ) are Bleeding and the citizens have to top up what the govt has Lost.
Govt has no clue how to earn money & create jobs thus 2 Casinos are needed “for easy money & fast cash”.
Have a comfortable saving & some hard cash, always……… just in case.
It doesn’t matter … when year 2012 comes
http://www.whowillsurvive2012.com/
aiyoyo
not sure 财神 see that auntie face,
will bring $ to us or not?
aiyoyo
38) leverage on June 6th, 2009 10.02 pm
Whatever is the Reason,
IF they sold it as reported, instead of non-direct-reply, they should reply because it is the people’s money.
Losses can be unavoidable.
But IF Abu Dabi windfall by a whopping 2.5Bn (i wonder if usd), then, it is quite difficult to say there was no poor judgement.
A lot of IFs. We need access to information.
But I don’t think the people bother about their future.
[i]What is TH’s reason of buying high and selling low on Barclays and BOA?
Something is fishy from the string of investments made by TH & GIC. Ever wonder why there are so many investments made went almost bust? is it mistakes or is it deliberate?[/i]
let me teach you on americans early 70s investments scheme
they want public money as shareholders
whatever they can grabbed
they run the businesses
with YOUR money
and maked damned SURED
it loss…
because if you lost
let says $10 millions or billions
you ^pocketed^ a few million$ or billion$ in it
whos knows?
price waterhouse perhaps?
37) Evilosesum
///All the Questions can be compiled into an encyclopedia liao.
Where are the answers?///
My patience in waiting for someone to post what you posted was not futile.
Thank you.
May I suggest a very apt name for this encyclopedia -RANTopedia
In my previous post I wrote “I read everywhere ranting on how many gazillion bucks temasek lost, how hopeless gahmen is in every aspect, not that there is no truth to them, but when it get to become a universal answer for every topic, then how to dicsuss.”
And I observed question raised in the posts directed at the authors in most cases gets no response.
So a subject is started, lots of noise made, then closed.
What good does that do other than creating a outlet for people to vent their frustrations,(which has its merits).
The corrosion, rust AND the decay is now very apparent. The good S$$$ is now coverted to trash.
44) KopitiamApek on June 7th, 2009 11.53 am
Actually, I have read many of your comments criticising TOC that they did not do their job in moderating the forum. FREE SPEECH my friend.
You cannot judge someone comments as bad or rubbish based on your own understanding and opinion. Rubbish to you may be somebody else treasures. Your idea of what is acceptable or not acceptable is only your views. Please give others room to express themselves. I disagree that it is only a venting of their anger but it is showing passion for what they believe in.
IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY FIRS RESPECT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID. If you disagree, disagree. Nobody is forcing you to read the comments and agree to anyone, you choose your stand.
TOC is doing a great job allowing diverse views to be posted here, this is part of freedom of speech. YOU WANT YOUR FREEDOM BUT PLEASE DO NOT DEPRIVE OTHERS OF IT. They are taking also a risk in running such a site and allowing views to be posted, so PLEASE BE GRATEFUL.
I keep wondering why are you still posting here in TOC if you think the writers here are bad and the postings are rubbish and also TOC is not doing a good job. Go and setup another forum of your own and you can moderate whatever is posted there. STOP distracting people from the main topic.
46) Joel Low
Thank you for your emotive response (by your usage of CAPITALISED it shows, but then I will give you benefit of doubt, I will assume that the Caps lock in your keyboard is stuck)
Your response adds credit to what I am saying.
Where did I infer that comments are “rubbish”?
Where did I infer that I did not respect views of others?
How did I deprived others of freedom of speech?
My point is that besides ranting (which I said has its merits) let us have concrete suggestions to match.
///Ikeep wondering why are you still posting here in TOC if you think the writers here are bad and the postings are rubbish and also TOC is not doing a good job. Go and setup another forum of your own and you can moderate whatever is posted there. .///
Talk about freedom of speech, who is stopping who now?
///STOP distracting people from the main topic////
That was what I was trying to do, getting posts to stay on topic, not ranting about not too relevant frusatrtions.
The lack of transparency is everywhere in Singapore, even in insurance.
I called my agent for clarification about NTUC income wanting to restructure and reduce my annual bonus severely, citing reasons that the entire fund lost 11.1%!!!! Turns out agent was in Australia. I checked on the web and saw the CEO hugging 2 bikini girls and drinking champagne in Australia too. (i)http://ms-my.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1550459&id=36541001838&ref=mf
(ii)http://ms-my.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1549575&id=36541001838&ref=mf
even though the brochuer sent to me explained that the economy was challenging and that our Fund made losses? Wouldn’t it be better to be more frugal with expenses so that PHs get more? Then again maybe they are saving a lot of money since Australia $ is low now. They had not replied to my queries for the Australian retreat and and how much it costs, plane tickets, accomodations, etc etc..
I have 4 policies with NTUC now (I am very paranoid) and I live a very frugal life. I do expect my insurance company to be prudent with money too (that’s why I chose NTUC in the 1st place). Now I am just worried and can’t sleep.
Remember the whole fiasco about asset value share last year? Even Malaysia’s insurance is more transparent than ours. In Malaysia, at least, the asset value share is disclosed so you can be sure that your insurance company is giving you your fair share of the Fund’s returns, but Singapore’s insurance companies do not want to let you know. Sighs….Singapore and transparency are not 2 words I would put together.
I oso buy high end of 2007, sell low on early 2009. But I so happy now benchmarked against Temasek, I didn’t do so bad after all.
Wah sooo happy now. Money not lost in vain.
Singaporeans dun comprain comprain.
You accepted this system.
No more comprains ok.
I have had enough of you singaporeans.
s.up and s.down.