Tan Kin Lian / Columnist
Are we seeing a modern Animal Farm happening in Singapore, where corruption and propaganda are used to control the populace?
ANIMAL Farm is a novel written by George Orwell in 1945. I studied this book for Literature when I was in Secondary Two.
It is a satire, depicting events in Russia leading up to and during the Stalin era before World War II. The animals of Animal Farm threw out the owner Mr. Jones and took over the farm, depicting the overthrow of the Czar of Russia during the Russian Revolution in 1917.
The animals, representing the people, looked forward to a better life under a new leadership. Their leaders were the Pigs, and Napolean was the supreme leader. He ruled Animal Farm initially with the support of the animals, but later kept his power through all means, including propaganda, lies and the use of terror.
Two memorable parts of the book were the Seven Commandments and how they became distorted and the story of the loyal horse Boxer.
Seven Commandments
The original seven commandments of Animal Farm were written to reflect equality of the animals, ethical behaviour and the search for a better life:
Whatever goes upon two legs enemy
Whatever goes upon four legs or has wings is a friend,
No animal shall wear clothes. No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Corruption
Later Napoleon and the Pigs (elites) were corrupted by the absolute power they held over the farm. To maintain their popularity with the other animals, they secretly painted additions to some commandments to benefit the pigs while keeping them free of accusation of breaking the laws. The Pigs manage to get away with this because only Benjamin the donkey and Muriel the goat can read to any effective degree, but they were not willing to challenge the pigs.
The commandments were changed to accommodate the desire of the leader for a life of luxury and wealth, while ignoring the lot of the other animals.
No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets.
No animal shall drink alcohol to excess.
Four legs good, two legs better!
No animal shall kill another animal without cause.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Boxer
I felt strongly attached to the horse Boxer. He was the symbol of the working class: loyal, kind, dedicated and respectful. He was physically the strongest animal on the farm, but naïve and slow. His two maxims were “I will work harder” and “Napoleon is always right”, reflecting his strong and unquestioning loyalty to the leader. He was, to a large extent, taken in by the propaganda of the leaders. His work ethic is often praised by the Pigs, and he is set as a prime example to the other animals.
When Boxer was injured and could no longer work, Napoleon sent him off to the knacker’s yard to be slaughtered and used to make glue and leather. He deceived the other animals, saying that Boxer died peacefully in the hospital and that the ambulance was an old knacker’s van that hadn’t been repainted.
Transformation
Towards the end of the story, the pigs learned to stand on two legs and regarded the four-legged populace as inferiors (i.e. lesser morons). They started to wear Mr. Jones’ clothes, slept in beds and drank alcohol.
They brutally ordered the killings of the confessing animals (who were forced to confess to crimes they did not commit).
The slogan “Four legs good, two legs bad!” was later changed to “Four legs good, two legs better!” as the pigs became more human.
Relevance to Singapore
Although this book was written as a satire to the Russian Revolution, some bloggers have started to compare it with what is happening in Singapore today.
There are grounds for the people of Singapore to be concerned. We have seen the good old values of Singapore being replaced by new values. In the past, Singaporeans were more honest in their dealings and had a stronger sense of caring for each other. In recent years, ethics and honesty are being set aside in the pursuit if wealth. There was less care or concern for the welfare of the weak and the poor.
Even the pursuit of equality was now thrown aside unashamedly. Someone told me that this is now replaced by the expression: “Look at the fingers of your hand – do you find them of equal length?”
I cannot help but think of Boxer as reflecting the workers of Singapore – hard working, dedicated and loyal, but were let down when they grow old. After a lifetime of work, they could not afford to retire and were asked to continue working. They have no security, no pension, no savings for old age (many lost through the credit linked notes) and cannot afford the expensive health care.
I have seen many examples in our society where business and public leaders say one thing but acted in a different way. They declare a concern for the welfare of the customers, but continued to make excessive profit at their expense. They declare a strong belief in corporate governance, but felt it proper to hide information “in the interest of the organisation”. Similar examples can be found in the public realm. If one is used to distorting the truth, in due course, one will believe the distortions to be true!
I like to mention the wise old donkey Benjamin in the story. He could read as well as any pig, but preferred to have a low profile. Benjamin had known about the pigs’ wrongdoing the entire time, but he said nothing to the other animals. He represented the cynics in society or the intellectuals who had the wisdom to stay clear of the purges, but take no action themselves.
“A&E, you are a person of contradictions, an enigma wrapped round tightly a riddle in a maze of conundrums.”
Hey, Curious! That was my trademark!
201) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on June 14th, 2009 8.11 pm
//Hey, Curious! That was my trademark!//
Sorry, Josh, your trademark was expunged from the records because it was given to you extemporaneously in error. A&E now holds that trademark exclusively.
No one who hugs a tree shall forthwith be called an enigma, says the Dear Leader, Napoleon. :)
I didn’t know the title was only on loan. :(
KopitiamApek: “Many people here idolises AASK, TWP, JBJ as their heroes,…”
You also posted that I “hero-worship” Tan Wah Piow just because I did not condemn or blaspheme him like PAP and you do and just because I wrote that he is now better off. BTW Tan is now a leading human rights lawyer in London, its not my opinion, its fact according to the report of his interview in Malaysia. I actually thought you were a worthy opponent for a good debate until you write things like this – about idolising or hero-worshipping people. This to me is opinion not fact however I am not denying my or anybody’s respect for the people you mention.
203) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on June 15th, 2009 5.03 pm
//I didn’t know the title was only on loan. :(//
Due to its extreme rarity no more such titles are minted. So it is only for loan. We however, can confer the rare title of OSPT (“orang suka pokok tembusu) on you for your untiring efforts to spread the art of tree hugging. :)
204) AngelVision
Thank you for clarifying that you do not idolise nor hero-worshipping these people.
“its fact according to the report of his interview in Malaysia” that is fact to some, not fact to others.
But if that is fact to you, I respect your view.
203) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on June 15th, 2009 5.03 pm
//I didn’t know the title was only on loan. :(//
More like a musical chair and aren’t you glad to be free of that worthless title?
KopitiamApek
By your hint, can I infer that you idolise and hero-worship PAP leaders?
I am not one to idolise or worship people or a tree, because these terms have a disturbing meaning of biased or blind following. I respect the oppo leaders for standing up for themselves and for others even with serious consequences and threats. And yes, that does not mean that I should sing their praises all day long if thats what you mean by idolise and hero-worship!
Hi Curious
Can you recompile your list of commandments and send them to kinlian@gmail.com? Thanks.
Comparing S’pore to Animal Farm is all gd fun. Wonder if students doing Literature are still exposed to it? Or has Lit been scrapped in Sec Schools?
But there is one big difference in post Internet era. There are alternatives to SPH, MC. So when things are changed without any admission, people can easily access the previous version.
And even SPH archive helps in this. Easy if you got the $ (1800 a yr), to track back what LKY etc said yrs ago.
So S’pore is not as closed as Animal Farm.
What is a more interesting parallel with Animal Farm is that in both places there was freedom to leave the place for those not happy with the system, but they didn’t. I could be wrong on this as I’ve not read the book for years because reading it is very painful.
BTW, TKL should do a survey on how people who post here have read the book.
“Even the pursuit of equality was now thrown aside unashamedly. Someone told me that this is now replaced by the expression: “Look at the fingers of your hand – do you find them of equal length?”
I don’t think the PAP ever advocated equality. What they advocated (and still do) is equality in opportunity.
Whether that is practicised is another matter.
“Benjamin … represented the cynics in society or the intellectuals who had the wisdom to stay clear of the purges, but take no action themselves.”
Well they and me could be like you, waiting for retirement. Like you, we got to earn a living.
“Now that I am retired from the NTUC group, I am now able to express my views on these issues. ”
So please no holier than thou attitude from you.
And after the defeat of Germany in Second World War, many Germans esp the members of Hitler’s NAZI party were like you
“Many people know that i have expressed my views on matters of public interest in the media for the past 20 years. i wrote on many occasions on the burden to our males doing National Service. The government leaders did not like my views at that time.”
You cannot escape yr past. You can atone for it, if you feel guilty, though seriously there is nothing much to feel guilty abt except the reverse mortgage fiasco reported in New Paper last yr. And here you were attacking the FIs.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439421
Please do not be like LKY, calling names and imputing the integrity of those who do not 100% agree with you.
Or who remain silent.
208) Tan Kin Lian on June 19th, 2009 8.29 am
//Hi Curious, Can you recompile your list of commandments and send them to kinlian@gmail.com? Thanks.//
I have reconstituted and recompiled them here for your easy reference in two parts :
Part I
1 Men in blue are good and men in white are better.
2 Multi-million dollar salary is to prevent corruption.
3 All are equal but some are more equal when it comes to pensions.
4 Due process is guaranteed, except when ISA is invoked.
5 Freedom of Assembly is guaranteed too but after 5 persons, better get permit.
6 GRC managed to get 14 minorities and 61non-minorities into Parliament.
7 Westminster model is good but needed local tweaking for NMP & NCMP.
8 Your CPF savings are for your retirement when you are over 80.
9 ERP is to prevent traffic jams and does not mean “every road pay”
10 Our investments are for long term. Barclay’s and BOA are just exceptions.
11 You can have Swiss standard of living, just pay and pay lor.
12 Who says pigs don’t fly? There was clear evidence that swine flew in Mexico.
13 Singaporeans are good but cheap FTs are even better for our economy.
14 Remember retirement homes are cheaper in JB and Batam.
15 We always extol the spirit of Meritocracy except when it comes to GRCs.
16 Voting is our constitutional right & compulsory but all bets are off in walkovers.
17 Electoral boundaries are made of rubber bands to better serve you the
people.
18 Gambling is bad but not 4D, toto, horse-racing and in our very own 2 casinos.
19 Our reserves are for rainy day, not for investing long term in zombie banks.
20 Give the govt 7% GST and we shall give you some back. GST means “give
some trust” lah.
21 Our health-care is best in the region, that’s why it is so darn expensive.
22 Don’t stop at two. Whoever told you that ought to be excoriated .
23 Winning our 2008 Olympic silver medal was great but no thanks to the coach.
24 COE keeps our car population in check. It does not mean “Cee pun Or Ee”.
25 We believe in protecting all workers in Singapore but sorry maids don’t count.
26 Our SMEs are good but MNCs are better.
27 We believe in free trade. The ¾ tank rule going to JB is good for Malaysia.
28 We have a First World economy but sorry our electoral system has to play catch-up.
29 Our top officials are so poor they need a bailout every time they fly overseas.
30 Workers retire at 62 but MPs can retire anytime past 85.
31 Our Sovereign Wealth Funds operate on a 6 year investment cycle so losing tens of billions of dollars in one year is not a big deal.
208) Tan Kin Lian on June 19th, 2009 8.29 am
Part II
32 About 200,000 carloads of Singaporeans go to JB each month to enjoy the sights, not to buy cheap petrol or groceries to make ends meet, lah.
33 Our officials are 1st Division players. Only our people are lesser mortals.
34 This is Singapore’s Golden Age, never mind about the recession.
35 Singapore is not an affluent country but our per capita reserve is the highest in the world, not counting Brunei.
36 The causeway jam is always Malaysia’s fault, never mind if the jam is mostly on our side.
37 Money won’t buy you happiness but it will buy you a few ultra-luxury condominiums.
38 English language is good, Mandarin is better, Singlish is neutral but dialect is bad, never mind if a dialect is the lingua franca in HK.
39 We are not a Disneyland with a capital punishment, no matter what William Safire said.
40 Twenty hottest jobs today are for newspaper delivery but strange, there are no takers.
41 First-past-the-post electoral system is good but walkover is divine inspiration.
42 Singapore is a land for the haves and the have yachts
43 Election is not a matter of who is right but who is left standing.
44 NTUC supermarket is great and so is Sheng Xiong supermarket.
45 Why help the disable elderly when they can obviously help themselves.
46 Whoever says we are not a nanny state is an imbecile.
47 Your CPF saving is your own money but someone decides when you can use it.
48 Chewing gum is good for your teeth but even better for your lawyer’s fees.
49 When in Rome do as they Romans do, when in Singapore do as the miw say.
50 The old guards had a tiger in their tanks, the new guards, money in the bank.
51 “Release me” was the favourite song of Chia Thye Poh for 23 years.
52 Singapore is a fine city only for those with a million dollar salary .
53 In the goode old days the three Rs used to be Reading, ‘Riting and ‘Rithmetic. Now it’s romance, reproduction and rheumatism.
54 Defamation is the fastest growing and most lucrative computer game in town.
55 Wee are a gracious society, provide you “get out of my elite uncaring face”
I want to encourage people to be positive and to see the bright side of life.
Some people, who enjoy attacking other people personally while remaining anonymous, called my attitude to be “holier than thou”.
I want them to know that they should not pass judgement on other people – just because other people do not behave in the same way that they do.
To #214 Mr Tan Kin Lian,
Your repeated exhortations for others “to be positive” is rather interesting. You seem to be rather easily irritated and impatient with people who disagree with you. It appears (to me at least) that rather than engaging these people, you are conveniently dismissing them as being negative. In one stroke, you are making it appear as though their misgivings and apprehensions towards you are signs of deficiencies in their own upbringing or character.
This, I think is unacceptable and grossly unfair.
If you strive to be a public figure, you should do better. Do you want to hear only the good things? Do you want only Yes-men? Or do you want to pursue the truth?
May I remind you of your stated life principles:
1. honesty
2. fairness
3. public good
4. courage
5. positive approach
Please reflect on them more deeply and live up to them.
I thank you.
@211) Benjamin the Goat
//So please no holier than thou attitude from you. //
Benjamin, why the bellicosity? See his explanation in 53) Tan Kin Lian here :
“During the first 25 years of independence, the PAP was a party of the people. Many people, including me, were proud to be Singaporeans and to be involved in the process of building up a nation. The PAP changed around 1985. That was the time that the focus was on elitism, graduate mothers, etc. There was a departure from equality and the good of the common people. Things got worse over the years. Later, there was the focus on “foreign talents”. While I was employed in NTUC Income, it was not possible for me to take a public position on this matter. But many of our leaders know my private views on this matter.”
IMHO, That was being prudent as people who live in glass houses should never throw stones. UK has the “Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 which protects the maverick from victimization and dismissal” but not here.
Catherine Lim was excoriated publicly when she wrote to the ST Forum a letter entitled “The PAP and the People-A Great Affective Divide.
She opined that “that while Singaporeans respected the PAP’s efficiency and were grateful towards it for bringing Singapore economic success, they lacked any real affection or warmth for the political party.”
This caused the “empire to strike back”. She was asked to “take responsibility for her views and to enter politics if she wished to continuing airing them”.
Even President Eisenhower waited till he left office before he exposed the dangers of the US Military-Industrial-Complex as he could not do so whilst he was still the Commander-in-Chief.
Therefore, there is a time and place for everything and now that TKL is aspiring to enter the political arena he feels it is appropriate for him to make a mission statement. That, to me, is not a person with a “holier than thou attitude.”
//And after the defeat of Germany in Second World War, many Germans esp the members of Hitler’s NAZI party were like you .//
Don’t be a goat, Benjamin, comparing contemporary Singapore to wartime Nazi Germany is like comparing chalk and cheese.
//You cannot escape yr past.//
The company that TKL worked for for 32 years is a co-operative insurance society which he built into a “leader in Life and General Insurance with total assets of S$21.3 billion” today. What is wrong with that? Maybe the nuance has escaped you but anyone calling that a “past” got to have rocks in his head.
As for the reverse mortgage business, like any business there are inherent risks especially dung a downturn. In the current global financial meltdown, about US$30 Trillions have evaporated around the world.
Who do you blame Benjamin? If anyone has a “holier than thou” attitude I think its you, pal.
Mr Tan
Pls live by what you say
“I want them to know that they should not pass judgement on other people – just because other people do not behave in the same way that they do.”
Remember you started it passing judgements on the people you called cynics. We are answering back pointing out contradictions in what you say. You do the same to gov. policy. What is wrong with that?
Besides pointing out contradictions in what you say is not an attack on you. It is just that — pointing out contradictions so that people can make their mind abt whether they want to support yr 100,000 names petitions.
And people should remember that you asked Income policy holders to attend two AGMs to support you. Then you went AWOL twice.
OK you did great things for the minibond, HN5 investors, but that should not obscure yr NTUC AWOLs.
I attended the first AGM and was disappointed by yr being cowered into silence by the great men and by the slap that Income gave you that you took lying down. I knew better than to attend the next AGM. I knew you would chicken out.
Enjoy yr retirement, you deserve it. It is not as though you exploited people when you were in Income and need to atone for yr sins. Income generally gave people a fair deal, better than most insurers. And Income’s actions kept them honest. For that you deserve a lot of the credit.
As to new mgt, I am not happy with the cuts but they have pointed out that their cost ratios have gone down. You promised in yr blog that you would respond to their answers. I visit yr blog daily to find out if you have replied. But I guess you prefer to talk abt the macro issues.
Finally, if you want to play rough, expect others to play rough.
I hope you realise that yr fans are not coming out to defend you. You shld ask yrself why?
errata :
“As for the reverse mortgage business, like any business there are inherent risks especially DURING a downturn. In the current global financial meltdown, about US$30 Trillions have evaporated around the world.”
Opps last para of 217 is wrong
I hope you realise that yr fans other than Curious are not coming out to defend you. You shld ask yrself why?
And I hope you shld take the attitude that anon fans are just as worthless as anon critics like be, Benjamin and A Tan etc.
As a frequent reader of yr TOC pieces, I note that A Tan has usually supported yr views. He gave some gd examples of when S’pore gov listened.
He criticised you once and you consigned him to anononymous critics not worth replying to. Speaks volumes abt you.
hi Curious,
please give Mr Tan Kin Lian a chance to speak for himself. is there “an empire that will strike back” here?
i find it rather disturbing for Mr Tan Kin Lian to view an different voice as;
////Some people, who enjoy attacking other people personally while remaining anonymous, called my attitude to be “holier than thou”.
I want them to know that they should not pass judgement on other people – just because other people do not behave in the same way that they do.////
who is judging who in this respect?
Benjamin’s
////And after the defeat of Germany in Second World War, many Germans esp the members of Hitler’s NAZI party were like you.////
may not be the most appropreiate, but i do find some points in that post rather valid.
the worse that can happen is for every posters to take side like you & i are doing, dig in for a long drawn battle of rhetorics.
a slightly more positive example in TOC is Arix. he/she despite being outnumbered & out”talked” does not shy away too far from confrontation, is able to remain civil, rarely accusing others of personal attacks.
lastly, why the need to taunt others with
////Who do you blame Benjamin? If anyone has a “holier than thou” attitude I think its you, pal.////
yes, i would like to see Mr Tan Kin Lian respond to some posters here instead of avoiding them (me included). for someone who does not shy away from speaking at Hong Lim Park, to do so online is really odd.
#216
Don’t waste yr breath. He will consign you to his hell along with me and anyone who dares say his is not a great man. Even people who give examples that support his view. Say one bad word and he consigns you yo his hell. Even LKY fairer than that.
We have exposed his weakness — vanity.
If he gets upset us by asking him questions on what he says, he isn’t worth the effort supporting.
BTW Curious the Income reverse mortgage that Income sold was badly flawed. It is banned in Australia and UK. Yet the people’s champion allowed it to be sold. The only reason why there is one blow up is because very few people bought it. I suspect that only the couple bought it.
As to the Nazi analogy, he raised it first on his blog.
As to his explanation on not speaking up before: on that basis he shld not be attacking ‘cynics’ for not speaking out. He should have the grace to keep quiet.
Propogate his social democratic views on improving S’pore but stop lecturing and attacking S’poreans for a lack of courage in speaking out. And stop blaming S’poreans for cowardice in refusing to sign his petition. Maybe they noticed he went AWOL over Income’s AGMs?
Only Dr Chee and the late JBJ have the authority to say these things.
Mice is nice
Ever tot he thinks he LKY II. Can’t answer back in coherent logical manner, or can’t get fans to answer back. So he calls names and attacks integrity of critics, and misrep their views.
But in so doing shows quality of man.
Can criticise others but once anyone queries his logic or statements, it is made into personal attack.
If you want bravery — LKY at least had bigger balls. He stood up from 1951 — 1965 against the British, UMNO and the communists.
But Mr Tan thinks he can behave LKY II without being as brave as LKY.
People have differences. The important thing here in Singapore is to encourage as many citizens as possible, who are qualified and capable to join the political arena and not give the PAP the monopoly. The opposition has been grossly under-represented in parliament for the past twenty over years.
Being an ex-PAP member and working for the government (NTUC) for many years should not disqualify TKL as a non-PAP politician. Already, without the 100,000 signatures he is discouraged.
Remember ex-President OTC who was brave enough to question the government about the official reserves which he was to safeguard. The PAP denied him the state funeral after his death. This is the sad state of affairs in our country.
erm..lky and all those expensive ministers won’t dare come in here and get humiliated. well, not exactly right. if they do come here, you can be assured their lawyers will also be present. lol.
so kudos to tkl. it shows humility and courage to face anonymous unkind remarks without hitting back(legal assault) – unlike the pap.
a rare breed indeed.
whether TKL would be able to do a better job than the present bunch of useless ministers is not an issue, at least at this moment. What is more important now is to get TKL to represent the people’s voice in questioning the present party for checks and accountability in whatever way he can or knows about the entire system during his time when he was with them. Infact, TKL is the best person now to do the job, well unless there are more people from the present party who are willing to break away and do likewise like TKL is doing now, then in this way, the ruling party would not be able to deny anything that are hidden from the people all these years anymore, unless . . . . . . . . they starts to play by their own rules again with the way they how they eliminate their past political opponents like JBJ and CSJ .
hi Cynic,
dun need to resort to personal taunts. just wait for Mr Tan Kin Lian to reply. dun scare him away. fans of his should not get in his way, by pretending to be able to read his mind & answer on his behalf.
LKY has no peers, he does have track record to his name few can match. alas, the present him… sad lah…
ironically, Animal Farm is started by Mr Tan himself…
btw, i am currently a critic (being critical). ;)
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
hi Bravo,
eh, what is there to kudos about? not all posters have “unkind remarks”. your statement is an over-generalisation, does your idol no good- the “with us or against us” mentality.
true leaders reach out to the common folks, online is a good platform to reach out. surely someone like him knows. doesn’t he?
o.O
hi Cynic,
dun need to resort to personal taunts. just wait for Mr Tan Kin Lian to reply. dun scare him away. fans of his should not get in his way, by pretending to be able to read his mind & answer on his behalf.
LKY has no peers, he does have track record to his name few can match. alas, the present him… sad lah…
ironically, Animal Farm is started by Mr Tan himself…
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
hi Bravo,
eh, what is there to kudos about? not all posters have “unkind remarks”. your statement is an over-generalisation, does your idol no good- the “with us or against us” mentality.
true leaders reach out to the common folks, online is a good platform to reach out. surely someone like him knows. doesn’t he?
o.O
but it seems TKL is not too keen to feel the ground leh, liddat how to know the ground situation? let alone represent issues on the ground?
accountability starts here, posters who asked valid questioned should be answered head-on, not dodged or demonised.
@220) mice is nice
//hi Curious, please give Mr Tan Kin Lian a chance to speak for himself. //
This is a free market of ideas and everyone should have a chance to voice an opinion, even you. Lets not put up barriers. TKL will have a lot of opportunity to have his say as he has a spine.
//is there “an empire that will strike back” here? //
Where have you been living in the last 25 years ?
//i find it rather disturbing for Mr Tan Kin Lian to view an different voice as;//
If you are the subject of an unjust verbal assault.are you going to roll over and pretend to play dead? If you do, you likely to find foot-prints on your chest.
//may not be the most appropreiate, but i do find some points in that post rather valid.//
Who is judging who in this respect now? Why the double standard?
//the worse that can happen is for every posters to take side like you & i are doing, dig in for a long drawn battle of rhetorics.//
I agree. That is why I always plead for the opposition parties to put their differences aside and form an “opposition caucus” to take on the “empire” as 223) Edward puts it so starkly “The opposition has been grossly under-represented in parliament for the past twenty over years.”
//a slightly more positive example in TOC is Arix. he/she despite being outnumbered & out”talked” does not shy away too far from confrontation, is able to remain civil, rarely accusing others of personal attacks.//
So your advice is to roll over and pretend to play dead when you are attacked? If so, please remind me to send you half a dozen of new T-shirts.
//lastly, why the need to taunt others with//
That was not a taunt. It was a polite wake up call, nothing personal. I like goats but not sheeple.
//yes, i would like to see Mr Tan Kin Lian respond to some posters here instead of avoiding them (me included). for someone who does not shy away from speaking at Hong Lim Park, to do so online is really odd.//
Hello, in HKP you are dealing with real people in distress. That is hard enough but its the “devils” hiding behind nicks online that one needs to be on one’s guard.
225) tiredsingaporean
//What is more important now is to get TKL to represent the people’s voice in questioning the present party for checks and accountability in whatever way he can or knows about the entire system during his time when he was with them. Infact, TKL is the best person now to do the job//
No one can put it better that what you just did. Well done.
223) Edward on June 19th, 2009 8.21 pm
//People have differences. The important thing here in Singapore is to encourage as many citizens as possible, who are qualified and capable to join the political arena and not give the PAP the monopoly. The opposition has been grossly under-represented in parliament for the past twenty over years.Being an ex-PAP member and working for the government (NTUC) for many years should not disqualify TKL as a non-PAP politician. //
Well said, Edward. That’s a great point.
hi Curious,
i am not putting up barriers, just as if you pose a question to me. you would expect me to reply, not my friend or fan to do it on my behalf. no?
if the fear of the empire striking back, where the courage to write controversal articles?
on unjust verbal assualt. fair enough there are some, but not all are that- unjust verbal assualt. yet some posters conveniently lump all together.
does voicing an opinion equal judging?
opposition parties banding together may or may not work for the success of S’pore. that will depend on the groups dynamics, loose groupings fragment in face of trouble…. so lets not assume there is safety in numbers.
roll over to play dead? i am responding to your post, but after that many hours where is Mr Tan Kin Lian’s response?
you can politely tell Mr Tan that he has several “polite wake-up call” & they’re nothing personal. so dun go about claiming
////Some people, who enjoy attacking other people personally while remaining anonymous, called my attitude to be “holier than thou”.////
all too often. have to beware of those who cry wolf too often…
even if there are devils hiding behind nicks, you should not treat all who disagree with you as devils. eh, what is HKP?
@221) Benjamin the Goat
//#216, Don’t waste yr breath. He will consign you to his hell along with me and anyone who dares say his is not a great man.//
Benjamin, why the bellicosity? Aren’t you not committing the same “faux pas” that you try to pin on another? Calm down, pal.
//We have exposed his weakness — vanity.//
I don’t really care so long as he is the best person to look after the second key. To a large extent everyone who is discerning has to have some degree of vanity otherwise sloppiness starts to creep into the system. Its miles better to have the alleged vanity than dishonesty when one is looking after the second key.
//BTW Curious the Income reverse mortgage that Income sold was badly flawed. It is banned in Australia and UK. //
That is all over but the shouting and one swallow does not make a summer. No one is always perfect. In the business world, things don’t always go the way one wants it to. Even in a war a plan is useless, says one great general but planning is a must.
//As to his explanation on not speaking up before: on that basis he shld not be attacking ‘cynics’ for not speaking out. He should have the grace to keep quiet.//
As I said before there is a time and place for everything. Even Eisenhower had to keep his mouth shut until he left office to pillory the Military Industrial Complex for leading America into a doctrine of endless wars for profits.
//Propogate his social democratic views on improving S’pore but stop lecturing and attacking S’poreans for a lack of courage in speaking out.//
Sometimes it takes a little nudge to get the people to see beyond their comfort zones. After all aren’t we programmed to remain “bo chap” when it comes to realpolitik?
// And stop blaming S’poreans for cowardice in refusing to sign his petition//
That’s an unfair blow below the belt, Benjamin. Anyone who aspires to go into the political arena would be committing political seppuku if he/she does that.
I do not respond to malicious personal attacks from people who have an agenda against me.
It is all right for someone to hold a different view, but it is different when the attack is malicious, while hiding under anonymity. It is possible for one person to post under different names in making these attacks, to give the impression that there are several people having the same view.
I hope that the moderator of TOC will pay attention to this type of malice, as it will undermine the value of this platform.
hi Mr Tan Kin Lian,
i understand your concern. when i was a newbie here, i was quite surprised the difference TOC is from other forums, in terms of format. for 1, i was not able to track my post history to keep a tab on articles which i posted before, wihout the need to enable an email notification.
i do hope you do not regard all posts that have different views as personal attacks. & lastly hope to have you respond to posts with valid points brought up.
ain’t forums supposed to encourage discussion?
@231) mice is nice
”hi Curious, i am not putting up barriers, just as if you pose a question to me. you would expect me to reply, not my friend or fan to do it on my behalf. no?//
As I said this is a free market of ideas. Anyone is free to make a rebuttal. TKL has his own reasons. Maybe he is busy sizing you up.
//if the fear of the empire striking back, where the courage to write controversal articles?//
You regard writing controversial articles as a sign of courage? Hello, politics in Singapore is a zero sum game and can be very rough. Anyone who is willing to give everything up to go into politics in Singapore to take on the “empire” has not only my admiration but my support.
//does voicing an opinion equal judging? //
Not necessarily I grant you that but double standards are egregious.
//opposition parties banding together may or may not work for the success of S’pore. that will depend on the groups dynamics, loose groupings fragment in face of trouble…. so lets not assume there is safety in numbers.//
Take a good look around and see the sorry lot that we call the “opposition parties” in Singapore. They need to improve heck of a lot to take on the awesome, well-oiled political machinery that they will come against in the next GE. Playing the walkover game is a lost cause. You need money, organizational wizardry and mobilization of the people’s opinions just to get to the starting line.
//roll over to play dead?//
I think you expect folks who are attacked to do that but they won’t.
//i am responding to your post, but after that many hours where is Mr Tan Kin Lian’s response?//
You, like me, probably hate watching TV and rather waste our time online blowing into the wind.
//you can politely tell Mr Tan that he has several “polite wake-up call” & they’re nothing personal.//
Is that a Freudian slip or do I detect a situation of “Hell hath no fire like a little mouse scorned”?
//even if there are devils hiding behind nicks, you should not treat all who disagree with you as devils//
That’s why I often like to be a devil’s advocate to put the cat among the pigeons.
//what is HKP?//
It’s called a typo. It should be HLP, kapish?
@234) mice is nice
//ain’t forums supposed to encourage discussion?//
I am pleased to no end that you finally got it. Thank you.
Hi all,
this article will be closed from further commenting.
It has come to my attention that the discussion here has strayed from the contents of this article into personal attacks against Tan Kin Lian’s character and involvement in politics, which is NOT the focus of this discussion.
Please do not abuse the platform on TOC to discuss non-relevant matters.