Our reply (view original letter here):
I refer to the letter of Mr Lionel De Souza on 15 June.
The Online Citizen (TOC) consistently practices a policy of community moderation, which relies on a process of reader feedback and moderator responsibility. Our comment filter is programmed to exclude comments which contain terms and references that might promote enmity between different races or religions, or which might be defamatory.
Additionally, we rely on reader feedback to identify and remove such comments. This form of moderation on the basis of community feedback was most recently practiced during the Aware issue.
In relation to the eight alleged offending comments, if Mr De Souza had raised his concerns directly to TOC, we would be happy to consider removing them if they were indeed a potential violation of the law. Naturally, as the parties who have the most to lose if prosecuted, we have an interest in taking such constructive feedback very seriously.
Unfortunately, Mr De Souza sent us no such notification or email.
Maturity in public discourse can only arise with a willingness to engage parties with whom you disagree. In choosing instead to appeal to the heavy hand of the regulatory authority, Mr De Souza has chosen to bypass a far more effective solution to the problems he is alleging: community moderation.
Mature public discourse is also not served with Mr De Souza’s ad hominem attack on our writers and commentors, whom he calls “nonsensical, crude and not worth reading”. Ironically, his is precisely the sort of online language that makes it easy to negatively stereotype online discourse.
This vitriol can only lead a discerning member of the public to question what his personal motives are in writing his letter.
Choo Zheng Xi
Editor-in-Chief
The Online Citizen
———————————————————————————————————————————————–
Letter of complaint (view original letter here):
Immediately after the report, “8 weeks’ jail each” (June 11), there are as of June 14, a total of 86 posts by anonymous bloggers on The Online Citizen’s (TOC) website.
I have no quarrel with these as most of the posts are nonsensical, crude and not worth reading. However, I came across 8 posts which to my mind have the tendency to espouse religious disharmony. These irresponsible and insensitive bloggers may, whether consciously or unconsciously by their comments (posts) sowed seeds that may inevitably promote religious disharmony or feelings of enmity between different religious groups.
Hence, the conduct of the perpetrators of the posts may probably be a transgression of section 298A of the Penal Code, (Chapter 224) – “ Promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion or race and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony.”
The moderation clause of TOC expressly stipulates that it reserves the right to moderate, edit, disallow, remove or delete comments posted on their website which are deemed to be unwarranted and are racially offensive remarks or religiously insensitive or provocative.
I am of the opinion that TOC’s moderators have in this instance failed to exercise due diligence by allowing comments laced with insensitive religious connotations to be published on their website with regard to the topic “Perdition and sedition.”
I therefore urge the Media Development Authority of Singapore to look into the conduct of TOC’s moderators, and seek an explanation for their omission in ensuring that their website will in future not be used to ignite the flames of religious disharmony.
Lionel De Souza
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#96 Zheng Xi
Your message speaks volumes and is sensible in every sense of the word.
Well at least lionel identifies himself – unlike some punks who are what smallvice – bigvice – miamivice.
Betcha gonna delate my comments. As long as it ain’t in TOC favour – it ain’t in the flavour right? So much for your free speech big talk.
Animal Mother in my all time fave movie “Full-metal Jacket” asks the mother of all questions – “You talk the talk – but do you walk the walk?”
#99′ner,
I not sure have you experienced reading the MSM?
I heard LDS’s articles or voices get published not just once in MSM.
His name also sounds familiar.
I assume LDS walks the talk. So, having so many fans here interested in his article so much so that they posed so many questions to him, I wonder why he has yet to come here and post under his real name and show us some of his walk?
Eh well you know…maybe he feels like he has to be a superhero for Singapore, something like VR man, heh heh…superheroes cannot have anything to do with the evildoers what!
But i also don’t know why this superhero likes to rely on the gods instead of confronting the “villians” himself…
AS FOR 99: Anonymity very bad meh? if we had to place Name, NRIC number and HP number for every post instead of nickname, e-mail, blog addie, then the blogosphere would be long dead and buried. Anonymity gives the blogosphere something one doesn’t have openly – freedom to express your true views without an invitation to join politics or to go la teh with ISD.
Can you give me your NRIC Number so i can check your name? You wouldn’t also what! So how do i know if your name is your real name or not? Don’t worry, TOC hasn’t deleted your post just because you accused TOC of being hypocritical. Unlike other forms of media.
[i]99) Tau Kim Leng on June 18th, 2009 11.06 pm Well at least lionel identifies himself – unlike some punks who are what smallvice – bigvice – miamivice.
asks the mother of all questions – “You talk the talk – but do you walk the walk?”[/i]
lionel the complainer is filin a complaint against TOc or whatever through the newmedias
which part of your brain is braindead?
when you jolly well know the singapore news medias would not puplished your forum ltetters/complaints without a REAL name
who is lionel?
just an ex-policeman who is tryin to get himself well known again
for a hidden agenda
he is tryin to sell himself as P.I. magnum minus the ferrari
please lark…
for GOD sake…
lionel, you are a retired police inspector nia
spent your ex-government pensions and arrest a few bangledenshi overstayers and collect a rewards
afterall you know we know all this poor foreign workers are just valued as bounty hunter’s gold..
there are many retired OCs with a feather on their peakcaps drivin taxi for a livin
they couldn’t cared less what is religion
to all this retired government servants
earnin a livin is better
money do not dropped from HEAVENs
even @ ex-senoir civil servants levels
letalone cpf withdrawals priviledges
as for the final sentence from another realname poster here
who wrote this
“asks the mother of all questions – “You talk the talk – but do you walk the walk?””
which ministers here do the above?
cared to share
please give us the ministers’ real names….
i rarther walked with a dopubleheaded snake…
Hi Tau Kim Leng #99,
To quote TOC, ironically, your reply is precisely the sort of online language that makes it easy to negatively stereotype online discourse.
:D
Hi Zheng Xi,
I thank you helping us understand TOC’s rationale for community moderation. To correct you a bit, one does not shout ‘fire’ in a crowded cinema even when there is a real fire – unless you want a mass pandemonium to occur.
If this isn’t TOC, I would be questioning the facilitation methodology being used to balance ‘free and lawful speeches’. How do moderators derive at the minimum or maximum sum of tolerance, for example, or, what constitute sedition?
Having said that, I am thankful that TOC, although bias at times, has been doing a great job so far. I would like very much to see TOC taking forward steps to push the boundaries a bit. This is why I am against an overly-cautious approach to letters such as the one by LDS. To hell with him I would say.
It is against this backdrop that I questioned whether it is wise to overly self-moderate, like some are calling here, even before we ascertain if there is any value in LDS’s comments. I don’t think the government would be overly concern with his comments at this point in time. TOC and its participants are giving them some serious food-for-thoughts and bringing to their doorsteps issues which they otherwise would be ignorant of. It is doing much more for the segment of society, who have questions to ask, than any government online portals or platforms can provide. That’s why the frequent interest in the articles that TOC carries.
You have my wholehearted assurance that whatever TOC decides on, it will have my fullest support, even if they are contrary to my ideals.
Guojun @101 :
(((AS FOR 99: Anonymity very bad meh? if we had to place Name, NRIC number and HP number for every post instead of nickname, e-mail, blog addie, then the blogosphere would be long dead and buried. )))
I recall the workshop held by IPS where TOC and other bloggers were invited also discussed about this thingy. For some reason , there was calls for people do disclose themselves wide open to the world when giving comments, IN SINGAPORE blogs or forums. SINGAPOREANS wor. hehehheheheee.
Obviously, even in the states, this would not work effectively as no one wants to be so naive as to do so.
So, I question the motive. Would that not have a effect of DISCOURAGING Truths from surfacing?
Tau Kim Leng and LDS,
you do know that Communication is not 1-WAY only, i am sure?
Please respond to questions posed specifically to you.
The story must not stop in 1-way communication.
For every ping should be a pong for signal to get through in a healthy communication channel.
“99) Tau Kim Leng on June 18th, 2009 11.06 pm Well at least lionel identifies himself – unlike some punks who are what smallvice – bigvice – miamivice.”
Now who is this Tau XX, the one plying desker road or geylang road.
Probably an attention-whore, enough said.
And IMHO, irresponsible reporting by publishing his letter in the first place as every online forum with significant traffic faces such problems – including STOMP and REACH – as mentioned by other commenters here.
Let’s take the positives – free publicity (as pointed about by another commenter) and a good, solid response from TOC (that was published)!
I suspected all along that something is amiss TOC. Because they took sides during the AWARE fiasco and there their editorials and postings are pro- old guards. So bloggers using TOC just have to be aware and dont use TOC if you are not comfortable. TOC wishes to challenge MSM. Fat hope. You will never get that unless you change your editorial policy!
Hi Socrates,
I don’t think there is an anti-TOC agenda there. Lionel De Souza is most probably a lone wolf. For somebody trying to promote PAP, he hard sells too much.
109) socrates on June 19th, 2009 1.33 pm
I beg to differ!
There is nothing wrong taking sides where required.
A person need to take a stand sometimes.
You mean, you never take sides?
Which person never taken sides before?
Your logic is illogical.
i agree on all respects to religious practise as what the law stated and be constructive and creative if this new media are to be realistic and success in the future.
Uniquely Spore indeed, nowhere in any public online forum demands identity for the sake of identifying who says what, simply because it is NOT crucial who says it so long as someone says it.
If Tau Kim Leng wants identity, we will need to also include our IC number because a name by any other name is still only a name. Can you imagine announcing our IC number to the public? Lionel, the writer of this letter, is a known figure albeit notorious to most people, therefore his name is identifiable and the reason he is in a position to publicise himself widely is because he licks boots. If this fellow does exactly what he is doing, but in the opposite camp, I can guarantee he will be into a lot of trouble, if not bankrupt or in jail, he will be in IMH.
Oh socrates @109, which medium does not take sides? You mean Straits Times, the nation-building paper? And just so your know, sitting on the fence gives a sore arse!
Did Souza toad complain about AWARE saga’s religious and racial discrimination? He didn’t and with this double standards he should just shut up and sit down. We need less crazy elites to stifle the people’s voice.
Souza toad should leave TOC alone and find some other place to rant about. Prolly toady should complain about The Little Bride and SOOC.
Hi #114,
I think he prolly has left TOC alone since he has not Responded to All questions posed directly to him.
1 thing for sure, having communicated 1-Way (to TOC & Today readers), he has never acknowledged he has Received our feedback to his 1 way street.
He has never responded. Maybe he really decided to leave TOC alone for whatever reasons.
LDS, communication is only credible if its 2-way street.
Or you prefer to debate with readers (TOC or Today) in public?
Talent, come lets talk.
I suspect LDS has been a 007 for the PAP for a long time. I notice whenever there is an opportunity for him to score points, he will do so without fail. (I may be wrong and others can disagree with my observations).
But I think he is doing a good job to keep the balance between the good, the bad and the ugly Singaporeans. In the Singapore society, we need all sorts of people to make our lives interesting. One such people is people like LDS who entertains us no end with laughter, albeit of a different kind.
All netizens would do well to welcome him into the blogosphere, instead of making hard-hitting remarks to drive him away from the Net. (Btw, I may be wrong but i can’t help but think that it could be part of his “secret squirrel” job to snoop on the blogosphere, and be rewarded secretly).
Welcome on board, Lionel The Susah!
There is lady whose articles kept being published by MSM paper.
I wonder whats going on?
Half a page or so every time for some many months already at least.
Must say, TOC improves a lot. hehe
Hey Zheng Xi,
Good to see you’re engaging your critics Han-Fook-Kwang-style!
I’ve heard somewhere before that if everybody is happy with your brand of journalism, you must be doing something wrong.
I thank all you writers for putting in time and effort to be a strong other voice alongside MSM outlets.
Astro Tan
I am in support of using MSM style of writing. Good style lah. I their supporter what.
Good things should be adopted and applied.
I analyse the news and already learnt much about it.
Not sure how many still not yet see what i see.
Internet allows some Balancing.
Eg. did MSM mention about C.Chong’s 15min bus waiting is Comparing a 3rd world with a 1st world?
With Blogs, I managed to mention this and at least SOME people has read it.
Instant gratification some more.
cheers.
Free publicity is better than no publicity.
Everybody should has the freedom to access the Net and contributes whatever he/she likes. Others will response and come in to moderate, refute, discuss, debate or dispute in the open.
Sensibly, syllogically and hopefully, participants be more focus on subject matters and avoid getting personal, vindictive, authoritative and proselytizing.
Without LDS, there will be no such lively and emotional disccussions here. We should thank him for contributing a highly controversial piece. Least of all, we know that he has been quite representative of how our leaders behave when relating to us, the People. The Best of all, his contribution had resulted in a very sensible response from MDA.
patriot
Hi Readers;
my apology !
‘Others will response’ should read as ‘Others will RESPOND’.
Yourstruly: patriot
this crooked cop has been totallee exposed in temasek review, he got his uniform n rank ready after interview as inspector, but alas he failed to get himself promoted, n ended his police career in ignominy n shame – as a station inspector. and he has a favourite girl, xiao pai tu (small white rabbit) at a brothel, he never pays, n all police detectives avoid him like pariah, as he snitch n backstab them.
all these expose, would leads any person of reasonable repute to sue, he didn’t.
he ran away with his tail between its legs. he was afraid of the truth.
people despised him, even tho the whore msm played him up as a fake hero.
now mr susa, i made these serious allegations, i will meet you in court.
don’t be a big cry baby, ‘teechur, this guy bullee me boohoo!’ Be a man. stop hiding behind pigs’ skirt.