We must look out for indications, of people who are pushing too far, who test the limits. All stakeholders – parents, schools and individuals – have to remind themselves and one another of the need for a secular space.
Second Minister for Finance and Transport Lim Hwee Hua
It is a FACT that the most contentious issue pertaining to the AWARE saga is the way Dr Thio and gang took over AWARE. As Dr John Chew said the tactics they used to gain office raised issues of ethics and propriety, even if they did not contravene Aware’s Constitution.
This issue of ethics and propriety was raised by many Christians and secular individuals:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=74852826540&ref=mf
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/a-christian-woman%E2%80%99s-take-on-the-aware-saga/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CQUk3LYNXI&feature=channel_page
It is a FACT that it was Christian Rights group vs secular issue.
It is a FACT that Dr Thio and gang worked quietly behind the scene for a year so it is reasonable that they were doing it after the EGM.
It is a FACT that TOC had provided fair coverage on Dr Thio side of the story:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/04/aware-new-exco-april-23-news-conference/
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/04/aware-belongs-to-you-says-josie-lau/
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/awares-sex-education-programme-the-concerns/
>> you choose what facts you want to see. that too is a fact. it is very disturning to know.
>>
Please be reminded that it was ST and pro-gay blogs that played up the Christian issue when Josie NEVER once mentioned Christianity.
Also be reminded that after Josie left, she NEVER ONCE said a word.
Also be reminded that since Day One of the AWARE saga, ST and pro-gay blogs have been playing up this Christian vs secular divide – till today.
Also be reminded that the REAL ISSUE for parents is AWARE’s covert CSE plan.
Also be reminded that ST and pro-gay blogs have been trying to bury that issue with the non-existent Christian vs secular divide.
YOU should stop choosing facts. Gays should wake up.
This is like the 5th MPs who have spoken against religion encroaching into secular space
Not forgetting NCCS president and moderate Christians like Dr. Gwee Li Sui and Mr John Hui.
NCCS president, Dr John Chew
“Churches should stay out of Aware tussle”
Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports
ONE: religion should be kept above the fray of petty politics.
TWO: do not let one issue hijack the agenda and polarise Singapore.
THREE: A rainbow coalition is vital for any group here to make meaningful change.
IN SINGAPORE’S multi-racial and multi-religious society, it is ‘potentially dangerous’ for religion to ‘descend into the fray of petty politics’
Strait Times, April 26, 2009
Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng
Don’t mix religion and politics
“If religious groups start to campaign to change certain government policies, or use the pulpit to mobilise their followers to pressure the Government, or push aggressively to gain ground at the expense of other groups, this must lead to trouble.”
Strait Times, May 15, 2009
MP for Hong Kah GRC, Dr Amy Khor
All groups need to practice tolerance, restraint and mutual respect to preserve national harmony
“Whether it is the AWARE saga, or the issue of NMPs, we should not allow such debate to turn into a crusade against others who are different or hold different views.”
Parliament Speech, 25th May 2009
Minister of State for Defence Koo Tsai Kee
Embrace diversity, tolerance
“IF SINGAPORE falls prey to religious and racial bigotry, the economic crisis would become a growing cancer in society”
Strait Times, May 27, 2009
Dr Ng Eng Hen, Minister for Education
the section on keeping schools (a shared secular space) free from competing groups.
“we must avoid is different groups with competing ideologies using our schools and young as proxy arenas to push their own set of beliefs. We all witnessed what happened in the recent AWARE saga. Parents, of any religion, of course have every right to express concerns if they perceive that advocacy groups like AWARE are teaching liberal values which go ahead of the social mainstream. But we must not go down the way as has happened in the US, where schools become the proxy battleground for the Christian right and gay interest groups to settle arguments. Issues will not be resolved that way.”
52) Solo Bear on June 6th, 2009 8.52 am
Please be reminded that it was ST and pro-gay blogs that played up the Christian issue when Josie NEVER once mentioned Christianity.
Also be reminded that after Josie left, she NEVER ONCE said a word.
It is a FACT that the most contentious issue pertaining to the AWARE saga is the way Dr Thio and gang took over AWARE. As Dr John Chew said the tactics they used to gain office raised issues of ethics and propriety, even if they did not contravene Aware’s Constitution.
Also be reminded that before AGM Josie NEVER ONCE said a word but she was part of the gang attempted to takeover AWARE. The simple FACT is that she did not say a word after she left means nothing. Thio and gang work in the dark that is why you don’t hear from them.
Sarek,
Thanks for putting up the TOC links. You confirmed that pro-gay blogs are playing up the Christian card.
Fearandignorance,
Please do not forget the 7000+ signatories of parents asking Aware’s CSE to be removed. Please do not forget that it was this action that got MOE to remove the CSE.
The Christian vs secular dispute was NEVER a factor considered in the removal of the CSE.
Gays should WAKE UP from their slumber. Stop playing the religion card when it is all about gay invasion in schools.
A total of 7 MPs had spoken about the religion and politics divide.
Only 2 MPs had spoke about CSE and both of them are from the Ministry of Education.
The only MPs that spoke on gay agenda only made slant mention of it!
Tell me what the government is most concerned with?
Do be reminded that Strait Times is and has always been the mouthpiece of our government.
How can we forget the famous speech by Dr Thio Li Ann on military secularism (yet another speech on religion and politics divide)
Only Dr Thio Su Mien is harping on the issue of gay agenda by AWARE in her recent two letter to the press.
Recent letters to the press from both camps are ALL on the religion and politics divide, none on the pro-gay content of AWARE CSE.
The AWARE CSE is suspended indefinitely till trust is regained.
Stop flogging a dead horse.
#56) Solo Bear on June 6th, 2009 11.13 am
“Please do not forget the 7000+ signatories of parents asking Aware’s CSE to be removed. Please do not forget that it was this action that got MOE to remove the CSE. ”
The MInister challenged concerned parents worried about the CSE to contact his Ministry to discuss it with his officials. Do you actually think the MOE really bought a petition signed online by anonymous people who might not be parents at all? And I have Christian SINGLE friends who signed that petition and on more evidence than that their bible study group said they should.
59) LadyMadonna on June 6th, 2009 1.04 pm
Errata – And I have Christian SINGLE friends who signed that petition and on NO more evidence than that their bible study group said they should.
To all the gays,
Please kid yourself not. If not for the 7000+ signatures and/or parents’ concern, MOE would have done NOTHING.
Iswaran himself said to get “your facts right” to TSM, only to have his own butt kicked, when it turned out that homo was propagated in AWARE’s CSE. MOE had to make an embarrassing U-turn after 7000+ signatures was presented to them.
Accept the fact that the hot issue is Aware’s gay agenda and nothing to do with Christianity, that MOE saw it fit to flush Aware’s CSE down the toilet bowl.
So what if single people signed that petition too? That shows that even singles saw that AWARE was up to no good.
However, using your argument can you say that Siew Kum Hong, a known hetero who supported gays, is a fake?
hi Solo Bear,
ST pro-gay?
it is you who are so anti gay.
the black sheeps are the 1s responsible for tarring the majority of the Christian community.
7000+ signatures? i wonder if a background check would yield people who signed more than once, parents who’s children already left school or not in the age group subjected to the CSE (or similiar) program yet.
its a fact Dr Thio did not even feedback to MOE regarding the program. she tweddled her thumb for a year before deciding to take covert action by mobilizing others to do her bidding, using her religious influence.
after viewing the clip on Josie’s press conference i can say she really did not want to be part of it. but being related to Dr Thio she must have found it hard to say no. furthermore their religious link.
# 61 Solo Bear on June 6th, 2009 1.11 pm
“So what if single people signed that petition too? That shows that even singles saw that AWARE was up to no good. ”
Don’t kid yourself. Sheep follow the herd instinct; they do not see or think. If they get rabid and start a stampede, it’s best to get out of their way. MOE got out of their way.
mice is nice
>>the black sheeps are the 1s responsible for tarring the majority of the Christian community.
>>
Quit playing the Christian card. The public is more interested in AWARE’s gay agenda than your petty quarrel with Christians.
>>7000+ signatures? i wonder if a background check would yield people who signed more than once, parents who’s children already left school or not in the age group subjected to the CSE (or similiar) program yet.
>>
If you take the stance that non-parents should not support parents with school going children, then you should tell the likes of Kum Hong to butt off when he tries to help the gay community, no?
>>its a fact Dr Thio did not even feedback to MOE regarding the program. she tweddled her thumb for a year before deciding to take covert action by mobilizing others to do her bidding, using her religious influence.
>>
It is a fact that the public is NOT INTERESTED in Thio’s dispute with AWARE. The public is interested in AWARE’s gay agenda and its covert attempt to penetrate schools.
>>after viewing the clip on Josie’s press conference i can say she really did not want to be part of it. but being related to Dr Thio she must have found it hard to say no. furthermore their religious link.
>>
Keep flogging the dead horse. It will never get up and move. The horse that is alive and kicking is AWARE’s gay agenda.
Lady Madonna
>>“So what if single people signed that petition too? That shows that even singles saw that AWARE was up to no good. ”
Don’t kid yourself. Sheep follow the herd instinct; they do not see or think. If they get rabid and start a stampede, it’s best to get out of their way. MOE got out of their way.
>>
So I take that non-gays who support gays follow herd instinct too?
Good. Next time ask Alex Au to stand for NMP to bring up the S377A issue instead of herd follower Siew Kum Hong, who has no business to talk on behalf of gays.
Ditto for all self-proclaimed non-gays who say they support the gay cause like Mr Wang from mrwangsaysso because they are just herd followers.
Agree?
65) Solo Bear on June 6th, 2009 6.56 pm
Sorry, I seem to have lost the thread. What’s the connection between sheep and Alex Au, Siew Kum Hong and ‘self-proclaimed non-gays who say they support the gay cause’?
Incidentally, do non-gays need to ‘self-proclaim’ their sexual oreintation? Does that mean those who do not ‘self-proclaim’ are gays?
56) Solo Bear on June 6th, 2009 11.13 am
Sarek,
Thanks for putting up the TOC links. You confirmed that pro-gay blogs are playing up the Christian card.
Yiou are so subjective. LOL. Blogs report the saga highlight the fact that Thio Christian Rights are up to no good and moderate Christians had raised to speak up against them online and at EGM.
When will you wake up, solo!!!
LadyMadonna
>> Sorry, I seem to have lost the thread. What’s the connection between sheep and Alex Au, Siew Kum Hong and ‘self-proclaimed non-gays who say they support the gay cause’?
>>
Of course you’re lost. You are selective.
If you can imply that singles sign up for the petition for support of removal of AWARE’s CSE even they are not parents and that is herd instinct, then can I not say that non-gays who support gays follow herd instinct too?
Sarek,
So what if the pro-gay blogs highlight TSM? In fact it proves my point. While the public is concerned about AWARE’s rubbish CSE, these blogs keep highlighting TSM!
>> Solo Bear
the only person who is still interested in AWARE’s gay agenda is You.
the only person who is still harping on AWARE’s gay agenda non-stop and everywhere is You.
Show me any recent letters to the press on AWARE’s gay agenda
Show me any recent blog articles on AWRE’s gay agenda except yours
Show me any recent MP’s speech on AWARE’s gay agenda
If not, I kindly suggest u shut up and shit down.
fearandignorance,
I can understand that gays are frustrated because they darling CSE has been dustbinned by non other than Dr Ng Eng Hen.
So for all the up play by ST and pro-gay blogs onTSM, it still cannot drown the fact that 7000 straights influenced MOE that Aware’s CSE is the MAIN issue at hand, and not TSM.
Please note that Iswaran told TSM to get her facts right. That shows that TSM is NOT the factor MOE considered.
But when 7000 straights told MOE to get into the act, MOE kicked your darling CSE and flushed it down the toilet bowl.
Keep living in delusion.
Keep believing that TSM is the issue, while CSE is not.
>> Solo Bear
Is Dana Lam crying? No, she is standing by her team and moving on.
The rest of us are focusing on media bias and some have found hint of pro-gay messages in Singapore Planned Parenthood Association’s CSE.
They are busy writing letters and trying to find out more about SPPA’s CSE.
Yet u are still harping on old issues that no one is interested.
fearandignorance
>> The rest of us are focusing on media bias and some have found hint of pro-gay messages in Singapore Planned Parenthood Association’s CSE.
>>
Really? Is that firing from hip or a fact? If you fired from hip, you better retract and stop maligning SPPA.
If it’s a fact, can you support it? I’ll thank you in advance for the alert. Once confirmed, I will publicly let parents know that SPPA is to be on the watchlist as much as AWARE.
>> Solo Bear
I am not the one who said that and have no proof that SPPA has pro-gay content.
someone did and is publicly spreading such info on another website.
hi Solo Bear,
i can do a point for point rebuttal, but i do not need to, you are not even slightly keen on a dialogue. is it any wonder why i am not the only one picking on your points.
makes me wonder why you are so defensive? you have brought up facts to defend your points, but will not face facts that contradicts your views.
for your info, i am not playing the Christian card & i have no personal quarrel with any Christians. are you shooting from the hips or is that a fact? If you fired from the hip, you better retract and stop talking like you know me personally- cos you do not.
Just like what Mr Wang says, I am also of the opinion that Solo Bear is both misguided and unintelligent. Even Arix is not like that. That’s why I respond to Arix but not Solo Bear.