The following is a letter to the Straits Times forum page by Gilbert Goh.
I refer to the article “Migrating Singaporeans” (ST 27 June).
I am currently residing in Sydney Australia and felt that SM Goh Chok Tong’s speech needed a response from those who are living abroad.
Having work and live for the past two years abroad, let me reiterate that it is so much different from working back home.
I worked for about a year in China in 2007-2008 and has found the experience liberating. Though work has to be done, it is not the same as Singapore which is often stressful and taxing. Let me just say that thee is still a life after work when you are abroad. The same could not be same back home. Many laboured long hours at work and suffer the consequences of not spending enough time with their loved ones. Lax labour laws favouing the employers also do not give workers enough say on their job scope.
It is no secret that the lifestyle one leads back home is not very balanced and after a while, one begins to look for a better place to spend his life with. Many I know left Singapore in search of greener pasture both in terms of a more balanced lifestyle and better career opportunities.
It is also well known that our employers are biased against older workers preferring them to be at least below forty years of age. The influx of foreigner workers competing for employment have also given Singaporeans the added incentive to search for work abroad. The job market during past few years has become an employer’s market pushing many more Singaporeans to look at alternatives.
Personally,I was unemployed for close to 1 1/2 years during the Sars period and during that period, I began to earnestly look for an alternate place to work and reside – one that does not discriminate against age. I realise that things will be very diffcult for someone who is above aged 40 years old and not very skilled. My family took the plunge last year when we were offered a 4-year work visa in Australia and have never look back. Many back home envy our so-called second chance at having a life again – abroad.
Though I appreciate SM Goh Chok Tong’s intention to try to help local Singaporeans settle down in their own country after graduation, i am afraid that his efforts will be in vain unless employment opportunities improve especially for those age above 40 years old. We also need to work less and play more.
—–
I too am fed-up with the pap policies, but Singapore is my country. I have done my share of NS + reservists.
I think we should effect a change by using our votes.. Who would think that a minority can become the president of USA? Just 30-40 years ago, the US still have racial segregation..
With a better educated population, the people would be able to think for themselves how pap policies affect their lives.. I am waiting for the next GE and its results.. Hope it will be a wake-up call to the pap that Singaporeans want changes..
83) borderless
////My goodness the humid heat of Singapore is unbearable. //////
Agree, that is one of the natural disadvantage in SG. It wears one down.
84) inix
Thanks for the sharing
Very elaborate insightful comparison
90) Gilbert Goh
//Live is too short to always wish for things to become better.//
Yes. Thisi I have learned.
In SG context,
Like buying a flat in an ulu new town and hope for facilities to be built. Some times it takes decades, and we do not have many spare decades to spent waiting.
Like hoping the existing gahmen gets kicked out and suddenly everything will be so rosy. I recall many decades ago, an elderly relative was always hoping communist China will take over SG and all will be well. I gave it some thought as to why did he wished what he wished for, I concluded that he biz was in the dumps and life was not good to him then. So being down and out, such wishful thoughts sometimes will surface, if only to give himself a ray of hope in times of hopelessness, real or perceieved.
The problems now is Jobs!
If Singaporean above 40s are not employed cause they can find jobs of decent pay like Gilbert ask for at least 2K.
How are they going to support their families to give birth to the next generation of Singaporean.
S-pass FTs with degree or diploma just $1800.
By law of economic, Lots of Singapore naturally will be displaced into the south china sea and don’t talk abt 44 years of national day!
44 – the most unlucky national day Singapore every had! Stillm got mood to celebrate!
One Nation, One People, On Singapore! Jobs Jobs Jobs! Pay and Pay! GOD Help! Help!
“Sometime I see those PMETS in E2i, I really pity them some are retrenched VP, manager wtih children and no one want to employed them!”
Never mind lah, they have upgrading programmes avaiable lah.
For retrenched VP, go for course and upgrade to senior VP / president lah.
For retrenched manager, go for course and upgrade to VP lah and make sure you apply for all the help that is being advertised to be around lah.
Don’t complain & say there is no help – plenty available. Just make the effort. Attend all the meet-the-people sessions, there are a lot of friendly and helpful people out there lah. Read the mainstream newspapers, quite a lot of positive news to psyche yourself up.
Remember it has been proven that you can easily live by with sgd351/- (any figure more than sgd350 will do these days) per month if you do not mind plain rice with black soya sauce.
“That is life, unless they pick up their own feet and be Businessman , No one can help them! Call God for Help! Help! God pls help me!
Where is God????”
If you think long enough, it may well appear right in front of you. So do not lose heart. Like i used to hear from someone else, miracle sometimes comes in different form.
I felt that there could b plenty of foreign professional gotten PR or on other scheme but mayb they refused to become citizen due to the fact that CPF is locked up n need to be taken in annuity.
“Like hoping the existing gahmen gets kicked out and suddenly everything will be so rosy.”
Things may not get rosy but at least the benefits of being up there get circulated among different people & groups – like what economists call something quite similar as ‘redistribution of income’ albeit in the form of political tenure.
FTs got no liability like family or NS and can contibute to their Boss!
They just earn what is possible and back to their country to spend! That why they can accept $1800 even they got degree.
Always expect miracle to happen but wait long long! HDB, LTA, PUB, Singtel, M1, MOE, Town Council, MRT will chase after your monthly payment!
We can go on bread and water but how about our children! We don’t eat nevermind but how about our children!
That is Life! No choice in Singapore!
109) redistribution of income
///Things may not get rosy but at least the benefits of being up there get circulated among different people & groups – like what economists call something quite similar as ‘redistribution of income’ albeit in the form of political tenure.///
that will still only benefit a minority few.
“that will still only benefit a minority few.”
Yes, you are right. However it gets spread to a wider sector or onto a different group with their own sub-groups / players instead of staying concentrated within a single group.
It is like giving 40 sweets to one class every year or the same 40 sweets go to a different class each year. Simple example just to get the message across.
Do you want to see some groups accumulating benefits to an obnoxious extent and beyond their “lifetime needs” while the rest have to fight for ‘crumb’ for immediate needs. As for the means of getting there in our context, I leave it to you.
109) redistribution of income
looking at it another way, assuming that each mimister get paid $5,000,000.00
per year and assuming there are a total of 100 of them, that will cost SG $500,000,000.00 per annum.
Using your suggested income resditribution, we now re-distribute $500,000,000.00 to the entire population of 4,000,000, it will give each one in SG
$125.00 per annum or $10.42 per month.
112) Yes, you are right
a bit confusing when you use different names while replying.
Life a Pyramid! Top of the Cream will enjoy the most !
Through History there are Class Struggle! Each Ruling Class will be displaced by another Class when the method of production change just like Taiwan.
Only in a true democracy like America, the Rulers will have to answer to people else will be displaced without violent! Obama take over Bush!
Successful Economy like Taiwan, Korea and even Indonesia until Suharto 32 rulers had all become democracy yet Singapore got long way to go!
Taiwan, Korea, Japan gov can be displaced with violent yet there economy still going still. See Acer, Asus, TSMC, Samsung, LG, Hyundai, Sony, Toshiba, Toyota still operating when their Gov Change!
Change is only constant in this flat World! Without Change there is no Progress!
Hi Gilbert,
Thanks for sharing your experience and I applaud your bold spirit.
However, I wonder if it is really true that one can find a country “that does not discriminate against age” and where it won’t be “very difficult for someone who is above aged 40 years old and not very skilled” to find work, especially when one is a foreigner there? If I am not wrong, your chance of getting a PR in Australia is zero or near zero when one hits 44 years-old even if one has all the desired skills and qualification. Meaning, to be hired in Australia your age does matter too.
Back to employment in Singapore, I do agree that the influx of “foreign talents” did contribute to a large extend to locals being unemployed and the increase in social concerns. This is a chicken and eggs problem, which I hope the ministry should seriously look into.
Not only Gilbert is being displaced, those Diploma and Degree PMETS are displaced too when they reach 40 plus unless they are at the top!
That is very practical Displaced 1 Senoir Eng of $4500 can employed 2 or 3 FTs of $1800.
Don’t blame the Employer. If you want to save cost, to compete you had to do that!
The unlucky Group is mid 40, they are at cross road to be terminated where their children are young and parent are yet to go heaven!
For 60 plus group, they take retrenchment benifit and go for happy retirement
PMETs take ownership in your hand! Look at the future, you might be one of them!
113) KopitiamApek on July 3rd, 2009 3.46 pm
Perhaps, I did not elaborate more and clarify clearly. I did not take redistribution in that strict manner. You have to look from a point where a minister is being replaced by an equal from another group. Redistribution may come in having to forgo the rights to represent the people if they slack and having to take the views of the people seriously and not at their expense.
It is beyond my understanding that the existing group can be so special that they possess some special talent / knowledge that no other group cannot better / comprehend even in their very complex term. Mind you, this is made worst if detailed information / explanation is not forthcoming and even if it comes, it leaves more questions than answers, if you know what I mean.
“a bit confusing when you use different names while replying.”
You are intelligent. You will have no problem in deciphering this little confusion.
116)Creducator,
We apply as a family and they consider my wife’s age which is four years younger.
We are on 4-year work visa and will try to convert it to PR after two years here.
It is better to apply earlier say below age 40 so that chances are higher.
They give you betwwen 2-5 years to come over.
It is true that now it is tougher to get PR here due to their own unemployment issue.
Hope this help.
Thank you Gilbert for sharing your experience. My own sister and family is in the US for over 10 years and have no plans to come back at all . My younger brother and wife, with no kids are planning to go Down Under by next year, they both studied there , worked here for a while and made the final decision. Have a friend, Eurasian and Chinese couple with 3 kids. went over about 5 – 6 years ago. He took a nursing course there and works in a home. Kids were struggling with Chinese and now doing very well in studies and ECA too. Sharing from friends and family overseas, yes Singapore has gotten worst for work and family upbringing. Those who have gone and come back for visit or short stints of work , do not want to come back at any cost or prompting from the government.
Have two girls in secondary and are open to leaving Singapore as they have relatives “overseas” . Told them to go and bring us later ! I regretted not leaving as wife’s side is rooted here. Well make the best for us PMETs. Bottom line is this. The government is not going to make life any less stressful for us. You all decide. As for me I’ve voted against them at every possible election that I had to vote. You are quite right too. Those who have lived overseas have a totally different mind set from the average Singaporeans. Life is not only about working and making more and more money. I really fear for the younger generation, life will really be very tough for them. As for the economic crisis, we will not be going back to the good old days. In the end we make the decision to stay or leave and live by it.
Hi Gilbert,
Thanks for your clarification and confirmation (#119). So you can see that age is a problem in other countries as well other than in sg (in terms of getting employment & residency). The only different is that if one is old in sg, one would have to fend for one’s livelihood, while in other countries, one could rely on state welfare.
The exodus of the locals to other countries will probably increase. I noticed there is a tendency for companies’s application form to ask local males who have completed NS what rank they have obtained after completing full time NS, this is a practice also for the civi service.
120)Acacia
You are welcome. Decisions are often make together with our family members.
For those with family, it is good to have a joint decision or else thigns will get messy when you go abroad.
We were in TAsmania in 2000 but didnt make it due to conflict. We were then not ready for the move.
We returned after one year and this is our second attempt at moving abroad.
You can say that I dislike the way society is going forward and wanted a change for myself and family.
There is still time and do go through with your family.
You can apply for the visa first and then prepare yourself for the move. They always give you some time to transit.
Letr me know if you need some help here.
121)Creducator,
That is for application for PR/work visa for Australia, I know that they are not discriminating against age as you cant show your age, gender, religion and other sensitive information on your resume.
It’s against labour law here. You can complaint if an employer violates labour law and be assured that your unions will fight for you.
I know that unions in Singapore are toothless and tripatism, to me, is uselss if it is all in favour of the employers.
Employers here also do not really bother too much about your gualification. If you dont have a degree, you can use your experience to look for work unlike Singapore. Middle aged non-graduate PMETs with tons of experience are being laid off like the flies back home.
The future doe not look bright for this category of workers.
Experience and whether you can do the job is more critical here.
Hope this help.
Gilbert, on your part that PMET without degree will suffer more, those with degree also kena retrenched also plenty. This also brought back the matter regarding those professional from the neighbouring ASEAN countries, the Malaysian like to become PR n later changed to local citizenship but today the trend is gone already, most of the Malaysian I spoke to found the working lifestyle too pressurizing n like to go back to their country.
Thanks, Gilbert.
Hi ACACIA (#120),
You “really fear for the younger generation, life will really be very tough for them.”? It may be true, but the younger generation still have the opportunities to follow the footsteps of Gilbert and many others who have sought greener pastures. Therefore, there is no fear for them…. just a matter of choice.
I would say, we should fear for those who are above 40 in sg. For these are those who are being stuck in sg, seeing sg (including her jobs and resources) being taken over by “foreign troops” who are welcome with open arms by the people being paid to make decision for sg. These foreigners are holding on to sg top and bottom positions, leaving the middle positions to sporeans for now. In the not so far future, even the middle positions will be filled by the “foreign troops”.
Unfortunately, these “foreign talents” are not going to be rooted in sg after benefiting from her resources and funding (no matter how our govt hope they will stay for good). Most of them only come to sg to make a quick buck or use her as transition to a better life back home or in another country of their dream, then leave her for good within the next few years when their aims have been fulfilled. Not forgetting that they are being paid by the true blue sporeans’ tax.
Base on the above state of affair, which is unlikely to change for the better, what will become of sg in the next 10 to 15 years, when most of the true blue sporeans are getting fewer and older?
Our only hope is the rise of a credible and effective political party who really care for sporeans before it is too late.
creducator, it is really sad to see locals reacing 40 n having a degree having to woryy of being laid off. It seemed that this country is becoming a place to work but not to retire in.
118) redistribution of income
Thank you for your clarification.
/////It is beyond my understanding that the existing group can be so special that they possess some special talent / knowledge that no other group cannot better / comprehend even in their very complex term.///////
Very true indeed. It is all too subjective.
Who-you-know-and-not- what-you-know
////You are intelligent. You will have no problem in deciphering this little confusion.//////
Thank you for your compliment. But not having to decipher would be a better option, as it eliminate one possible ource of miscommunication.
Will4 (#127),
You are right. I wonder how our MM feel about the sg he and his cabinet had built over the years is turning into a “transit lounge”. Is he proud of this? Or does he even know it is the case?
We should let the brain drain worsen. Seriously, we all want change in this country, but there is no incentive for such, until the economy has hit rock-bottom. We should all do our best to create the incentive for change by driving the economy to hit rock-bottom. Highly qualified and talented Singaporean, please migrate asap. MNCs, please diverse your operations from Singapore.
130) smallvice585
I have a good laugh over your post but frankly you may have a point there.
Indonesia’s Suharto went down because there were issues facing him chief of which is corruption and people’s power.
Philippines Marcos also got toppled because of corruption and people’s power.
Thailand’s Thaisin also left the country because of corruption and people’s power.
I hope that we all get the drift here.
131) Gilbert Goh 130) smallvice585
I think you are putting the case of things have to become worse before it gets better, but for the countries cited, they seems to be getting “worser” and “worser” leh.
130) smallvice585, your comment is so humorous but makes sense. :)
But I am not too sure if the ruling party will even bother to do something when that happens. For they might be the creators of the “transit lounge” and want it to remain so.
Gilbert (#131), Kopitiam Apek (#132), creducator (#133),
Lol, I don’t think that it is Smallvice’s intention to be humorous. He does sincerely want to worsen to brain drain so that Singaporeans will kick the PAP out of power, and hence allow him and his minions to rule Singapore.
Not kidding, really!
hmn…. 130) smallvice585 = 134) Arix ? *eyes rolling*
hi creducator #135,
Don’t you know Arix is one of my minions? LOL
Aiyo this is getting serious…
Hi Gilbert Goh #131,
Change can only happen when there are strong push and pull factors in action. We want government reform but it will not happen because the circumstances are not bad enough (no push) and because our current Opposition has neither the number nor perceived credibility to become Government (no pull). Singapore is indeed in a bad state of affairs.
Hi GIlbert Goh #137,
Of course it is getting serious. Politics has no room for religious people who are alive.
139) smallvice585,
Care to elaborate on “Politics has no room for religious people who are alive.”?
hi creducator #133,
Well, if PAP intends to keep Singapore as a transit lounge yet our political and economic climate has fortified the foundation of people’s power, then change no longer remains as a choice for PAP as the People themselves can effect change.
Hi creducator #140,
That statement is for provoking Arix. “Religious people” was referring to Arix. He and I share certain fundamental disagreement on the participation of religion in public life. It has been fun to mislead him [in some TOC threads] to make statements about his God that deviates substantially from his own religion – Roman Catholism. Haha…
@Maximillan
Glen Waverley is around 30+KM from Melbourne City if we take the Eastern Freeway, or 26KM if we take the Monash Freeway right?
Lets take the linear distance as 26KM. Using this Linear distance, this is approximately the distance of Woodlands to Singapore City, so with A$550K, I can buy plenty of flats available in Singapore.
I can also buy private landed property (albeit with 99 year leases only though) in Woodlands with this amount of money. Furthermore, if we factor the interest rates and loans over a period of 30 years, in SG, I can pay for a home of $800K with the amount which in AU which I can loan for A$550K due to the huge disparity in interest rate.
Do note some things here. I’ve got family members who have huge Kampung Homes on which I’ve stayed for months. I have no particular preferences on landed vs non-landed.
Furthermore, when you placed 550sqm, you’re not telling the whole picture. Thats the entire property which includes the porch, your car park etc. It is not the entire liveable space, which I have no interest in. Most Australian homes are indeed bigger then SG, but I suspect the property you are talking about is probably at a max of 150 – 200sqm of liveable space.
@Maximillan #98
Thanks for the correction. Somehow always thought of it as 3 years instead of 4. Nevertheless, AU Passport is still something which consistently sets me thinking. I wanna go there only for 1 reason. The free medical which is pretty significant for a person with pre-existing condition like myself (although not under the serious list).
But if I do go, I’m not prepared to lose my Singapore CItizenship. No matter how, Singapore is home to me. Thinking and thinking still
The people I came across returning to Singapore after a number of years abroad sometimes return to put their kids back into our school system. I find that quite odd, if that was what they were running away from in the first place. And quite a number will again go abroad after finding it hard to adapt back to SG and after some year return to SG again. It become a routine, unsure whether to be here or there. I know some of them doing this for decades.
I think it is hard to let go, it may be sad to feel leaving the place we are born, the miss will always be there, and the yearning to return remains. But once back, the yearning to run away from this place returns. So the cycle goes on.
It becomnes a lifestyle choice.
I would like to learn from those who are now staying abroad how do you address these issues.
1. Accepting minority status in the new land
2. What is the impact on your children and their own future.
Hi Inix #143,
Lifestyle abroad is very different from that in Singapore. Living 30km from the City Centre is really okay. In fact, your workplace might not even be in the City Centre in the first place. For example, Canary Wharf is one of London’s financial district yet it is located in the suburbs, not the City Centre.
Thanks for sharing, Gilbert and inix.
For those who have migrated, I just wonder whether there is any worry that their sons or daughters will become more liberal or marry a guai loe (ang moh) in future.
148) curious,
I guess they have already thought of that and are prepared to accept it before migrating.
145) KopitiamApek,
“The people I came across returning to Singapore after a number of years abroad sometimes return to put their kids back into our school system.”
That is because they want their cake and eat it. I know of someone who has migrated with PR status in NZ yet came back to take a degree in sg b’cos the degree from NUS/NTU carries weight oversea, plus he gets tol pay local subsidized fee (he still holds a sg citizenship). After getting the degree, he will use it in NZ or some other countries, not in sg.
Hi Creducator #149,
Haha… That’s why Singaporeans stuck under the PAP regime dislikes overseas Singaporeans. Overseas Singaporeans can have their cake and eat it too. If Singaporeans at home want to have their cake and eat it too, they have to oppose PAP first.
KopitekApek
We have already weighed the pors and cons and decided to go ahead.
There is no perfect country as spoken before except maybe heaven.
Things that matter to you dearly will be your push factor to migrate e.g. a more balanced lifestyle, better work opportunities, more freedom, easier educational pace for children, etc.
If you are happy where you are, stay put. Uprooting is not for the faint hearted.
It is not easy to uproot and left your home land with your family members (mum/dad) and friends and for those who do, they have very strong reasons to do so.
Hope this help.