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	<title>Comments on: Report: Mooting a social assistance scheme search engine</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/</link>
	<description>Singapore&#039;s #1 Socio-Political Site</description>
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		<title>By: Dshad</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-111390</link>
		<dc:creator>Dshad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-111390</guid>
		<description>Who is working on the database currently? Where can we help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is working on the database currently? Where can we help?</p>
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		<title>By: zhongye</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-83384</link>
		<dc:creator>zhongye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-83384</guid>
		<description>If the gini coefficient is lower when the unemployed households are factored in, it means that the income inequity is improved instead of worsen. Thus, with a lower income inequity, does it goes to show that the unemployed households have close or similar income than that of employed households? If so, then it goes to show that by helping the unemployed households to raise their income ( etc schemes ), they would be able to enjoy the same standard of living as the employed.

                          Thus, with the implementation of the search engine, it would reduce the time spent by social workers to obtain a scheme for the people in need and hence reduce the strain on government resources. More unemployed households would be able to achieve the same income level as the employed households and potentially being able to get out of the poverty cycle!

                         However, it could also place a greater strain on the government budget/resources since there is increasing expenditure from increasing schemes being implemented. There will be greater opportunity cost as well since the resources used may be diverted elsewhere etc education. 

My personal opinion:
On the other hand, there may be other implications in doing so etc ( increasing competition within similar skill industries and thus lowering the income level and hence standard of living for employed . Moreover, with their increased purchasing power, they have the ability to demand for better good or necessities, leading to an inflation of the prices of goods. This leads to a fall in the real income of other consumers and hence they are able to enjoy lesser luxurious goods. This will reinforce their fall in standard of living too. Lastly, in bid to maintain their real income, people will try to ask for a wage raise and thus this leads to increase in wages. This would in turn deter investments/MNCs from setting up in SG which lowers the potential revenue in the future. )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the gini coefficient is lower when the unemployed households are factored in, it means that the income inequity is improved instead of worsen. Thus, with a lower income inequity, does it goes to show that the unemployed households have close or similar income than that of employed households? If so, then it goes to show that by helping the unemployed households to raise their income ( etc schemes ), they would be able to enjoy the same standard of living as the employed.</p>
<p>                          Thus, with the implementation of the search engine, it would reduce the time spent by social workers to obtain a scheme for the people in need and hence reduce the strain on government resources. More unemployed households would be able to achieve the same income level as the employed households and potentially being able to get out of the poverty cycle!</p>
<p>                         However, it could also place a greater strain on the government budget/resources since there is increasing expenditure from increasing schemes being implemented. There will be greater opportunity cost as well since the resources used may be diverted elsewhere etc education. </p>
<p>My personal opinion:<br />
On the other hand, there may be other implications in doing so etc ( increasing competition within similar skill industries and thus lowering the income level and hence standard of living for employed . Moreover, with their increased purchasing power, they have the ability to demand for better good or necessities, leading to an inflation of the prices of goods. This leads to a fall in the real income of other consumers and hence they are able to enjoy lesser luxurious goods. This will reinforce their fall in standard of living too. Lastly, in bid to maintain their real income, people will try to ask for a wage raise and thus this leads to increase in wages. This would in turn deter investments/MNCs from setting up in SG which lowers the potential revenue in the future. )</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeobzervr</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-83158</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeobzervr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-83158</guid>
		<description>Hi Cerelia,

I&#039;d like to point out a technical error in the report. Gini Coefficient should be between 0 and 1. 0 being perfect equality in income/wealth distribution and 1 being most unequal. Since the release of General Household Survey 2005 which stated the Gini coefficient for Singngapore as 0.52 across all households, more recent data seems to highlight only employed households. Gini Coefficient amongst employed household is 0.485 (2007) up from 0.472 (2006) before adjustment for &#039;gifts&#039; such as progress package etc. Factoring only employed households in the calculation is problematic. The share of nation&#039;s wealth cannot ignore unemployed households especially in a situation where the cause for unemployment is structural. However, in doing so, and further adjusting the figures to include handouts (which is not income by employment) the gini coefficient seems to be lower than if unemployed households are included. This is quite contradicting as on one hand DOS removed unemployed households as any income received would be from public assistance but then they adjusted the figures to include income from &#039;non-employment&#039; goodies/handouts. 

(Recalling from memory so I may not be very accurate), As a gauge, the best performing countries based on Gini Coefficient are Sweden and Denmark with gini coefficients hovering aroung 0.23-0.25 and Namibia being the worst at 0.71. Japan/Korea/China is aroung 0.33-0.35. 

From the paper you cited, Gini Coefficient of employed households as published by DOS are:

2005 - 0.470 (0.459) 
2006 - 0.476 (0.455)
2007 - 0.489 (0.479)
2008 - 0.481 (0.462)

(in bracket) denotes gini coefficient adjusted for &#039;non-employment income&#039; handouts from state.

Perhaps, you&#039;re making reference to gini index?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cerelia,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to point out a technical error in the report. Gini Coefficient should be between 0 and 1. 0 being perfect equality in income/wealth distribution and 1 being most unequal. Since the release of General Household Survey 2005 which stated the Gini coefficient for Singngapore as 0.52 across all households, more recent data seems to highlight only employed households. Gini Coefficient amongst employed household is 0.485 (2007) up from 0.472 (2006) before adjustment for &#8216;gifts&#8217; such as progress package etc. Factoring only employed households in the calculation is problematic. The share of nation&#8217;s wealth cannot ignore unemployed households especially in a situation where the cause for unemployment is structural. However, in doing so, and further adjusting the figures to include handouts (which is not income by employment) the gini coefficient seems to be lower than if unemployed households are included. This is quite contradicting as on one hand DOS removed unemployed households as any income received would be from public assistance but then they adjusted the figures to include income from &#8216;non-employment&#8217; goodies/handouts. </p>
<p>(Recalling from memory so I may not be very accurate), As a gauge, the best performing countries based on Gini Coefficient are Sweden and Denmark with gini coefficients hovering aroung 0.23-0.25 and Namibia being the worst at 0.71. Japan/Korea/China is aroung 0.33-0.35. </p>
<p>From the paper you cited, Gini Coefficient of employed households as published by DOS are:</p>
<p>2005 &#8211; 0.470 (0.459)<br />
2006 &#8211; 0.476 (0.455)<br />
2007 &#8211; 0.489 (0.479)<br />
2008 &#8211; 0.481 (0.462)</p>
<p>(in bracket) denotes gini coefficient adjusted for &#8216;non-employment income&#8217; handouts from state.</p>
<p>Perhaps, you&#8217;re making reference to gini index?</p>
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		<title>By: joel</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-83149</link>
		<dc:creator>joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-83149</guid>
		<description>haha yeap i think the search engine is meant for social workers. because they mentioned that currently the list of schemes is wayyy too long, as a result social workers always tap on the same few schemes, and many of the schemes that actually could assist the family go ignored. 

so a database will allow the social worker to enter some details about the family they are assisting (eg family size, monthly income, etc) and get a narrowed-down list of schemes that the family qualifies for.

so yeah to clarify its meant for social workers not the underprivileged themselves.

and to those who comment that this is too mechanical, do note that the search engine does not determine exactly which scheme the family should apply for. it just narrows down the list of schemes, so the social worker has a far easier time. the &quot;human touch&quot; is certainly still present.

yeap (:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha yeap i think the search engine is meant for social workers. because they mentioned that currently the list of schemes is wayyy too long, as a result social workers always tap on the same few schemes, and many of the schemes that actually could assist the family go ignored. </p>
<p>so a database will allow the social worker to enter some details about the family they are assisting (eg family size, monthly income, etc) and get a narrowed-down list of schemes that the family qualifies for.</p>
<p>so yeah to clarify its meant for social workers not the underprivileged themselves.</p>
<p>and to those who comment that this is too mechanical, do note that the search engine does not determine exactly which scheme the family should apply for. it just narrows down the list of schemes, so the social worker has a far easier time. the &#8220;human touch&#8221; is certainly still present.</p>
<p>yeap (:</p>
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		<title>By: zhongye</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82840</link>
		<dc:creator>zhongye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82840</guid>
		<description>Hey, im the guy in red :D . Regarding the #3 comment, why would they need to come to this site in the first place? Even if they cant go to this site doesn&#039;t matter that they cant get assistance right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, im the guy in red :D . Regarding the #3 comment, why would they need to come to this site in the first place? Even if they cant go to this site doesn&#8217;t matter that they cant get assistance right?</p>
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		<title>By: loop</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82756</link>
		<dc:creator>loop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82756</guid>
		<description>Unwed mothers are also mothers, the authorities should change the rules &amp; let them have some benefits.  You can always set a benchmark i.e. maximum salary to receive help is around SGD3000 or so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unwed mothers are also mothers, the authorities should change the rules &amp; let them have some benefits.  You can always set a benchmark i.e. maximum salary to receive help is around SGD3000 or so?</p>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82651</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82651</guid>
		<description>i think the search engine is a good idea.
and the best part, we don&#039;t need to wait for the govt to do it. (better rely on ourselves than someone else to do it.)

alot of the schemes and qualifying criteria is public info.
so if anyone is interested, they can just take a weekend to do it 
and it is done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think the search engine is a good idea.<br />
and the best part, we don&#8217;t need to wait for the govt to do it. (better rely on ourselves than someone else to do it.)</p>
<p>alot of the schemes and qualifying criteria is public info.<br />
so if anyone is interested, they can just take a weekend to do it<br />
and it is done.</p>
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		<title>By: Ravi Philemon</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82512</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Philemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82512</guid>
		<description>Post-Aware Jittery@#2:  Your fears are unfounded. New Hope Community Services (NHCS) works with the various self-help groups to assist the needy, including SINDA, MENDAKI and CDAC.  The An-Nur Mosque is also a friend of NHCS and is often roped in to help the Muslim clients. Being a Christian VWO it is not strange to have pastors on the Board of Directors.  But NHCS is committed to serve everyone regardless of race language or religion.  If the slippery slope argument were to be bought quite a few VWOs in Singapore besides NHCS and including METTA Welfare Association, would have to be closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post-Aware Jittery@#2:  Your fears are unfounded. New Hope Community Services (NHCS) works with the various self-help groups to assist the needy, including SINDA, MENDAKI and CDAC.  The An-Nur Mosque is also a friend of NHCS and is often roped in to help the Muslim clients. Being a Christian VWO it is not strange to have pastors on the Board of Directors.  But NHCS is committed to serve everyone regardless of race language or religion.  If the slippery slope argument were to be bought quite a few VWOs in Singapore besides NHCS and including METTA Welfare Association, would have to be closed.</p>
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		<title>By: Merv</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82494</link>
		<dc:creator>Merv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82494</guid>
		<description>What a stupid idea. Newsflash -&gt;&gt; People who are poor probably cannot afford the internet access to go to this stupid site.

What&#039;s next ? 10% discount for people under assistance schemes for Lexus cars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a stupid idea. Newsflash -&gt;&gt; People who are poor probably cannot afford the internet access to go to this stupid site.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s next ? 10% discount for people under assistance schemes for Lexus cars?</p>
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		<title>By: Post-Aware Jittery</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82482</link>
		<dc:creator>Post-Aware Jittery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82482</guid>
		<description>The target group for this programme is children aged from nine to thirteen as this are the ages where they are most impressionable. ... They hope to start the pilot project with &lt;b&gt;New Hope Community Services&lt;/b&gt; before evaluating the effectiveness’ of this programme.

New Hope CS  has several pastors as board members. Let&#039;s hope it will not go down the slippery slope of unbridled evangelism on young impressionable minds from poor families a la our in-famous jailbirds Ong Kian Cheong and Dorothy Chan Hien from the Little Bride saga.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The target group for this programme is children aged from nine to thirteen as this are the ages where they are most impressionable. &#8230; They hope to start the pilot project with <b>New Hope Community Services</b> before evaluating the effectiveness’ of this programme.</p>
<p>New Hope CS  has several pastors as board members. Let&#8217;s hope it will not go down the slippery slope of unbridled evangelism on young impressionable minds from poor families a la our in-famous jailbirds Ong Kian Cheong and Dorothy Chan Hien from the Little Bride saga.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82449</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82449</guid>
		<description>Singapore welfarism is such that once you are provened dead than the govt will start to cure you with slow antidote to keep you breath but not alive.  If you are half dead or three-quarter dead, they said you are still alive thus no need cure and you need to help yourselves.  When you argued to them that it is easier to cure a person while he is not quite dead, pap will tell you that it does not make business sense to do so.   On the other hand, they will waste no effort to save a sick or dead foreign banks even if they were to burn down all the hospitals here.
							P.S. - Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singapore welfarism is such that once you are provened dead than the govt will start to cure you with slow antidote to keep you breath but not alive.  If you are half dead or three-quarter dead, they said you are still alive thus no need cure and you need to help yourselves.  When you argued to them that it is easier to cure a person while he is not quite dead, pap will tell you that it does not make business sense to do so.   On the other hand, they will waste no effort to save a sick or dead foreign banks even if they were to burn down all the hospitals here.<br />
							P.S. &#8211; Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/mooting-a-social-assistance-scheme-search-engine/comment-page-1/#comment-82432</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 05:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10994#comment-82432</guid>
		<description>Singapore welfarism is such that once you are provened dead than the govt will start to cure you with slow antidote to keep you breath but not alive.  If you are half dead or three-quarter dead, they said you are still alive thus no need cure and you need to help yourselves.  When you argued to them that it is easier to cure a person while he is not quite dead, pap will tell you that it does not make business sense to do so.   On the other hand, they will waste no effort to save a sick or dead foreign banks even if they were to burn down all the hospitals here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singapore welfarism is such that once you are provened dead than the govt will start to cure you with slow antidote to keep you breath but not alive.  If you are half dead or three-quarter dead, they said you are still alive thus no need cure and you need to help yourselves.  When you argued to them that it is easier to cure a person while he is not quite dead, pap will tell you that it does not make business sense to do so.   On the other hand, they will waste no effort to save a sick or dead foreign banks even if they were to burn down all the hospitals here.</p>
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