From The Straits Times / Reuters:
SINGAPORE’S civil servants are the most efficient among their Asian peers, a business survey on 12 economies released on Wednesday showed, but they tend to clam up unhelpfully when things go wrong.
The Republic was ranked first for a third time in a poll of 1,274 expatriates working in 12 North and South Asian nations on the efficiency of bureaucrats in those countries.
The poll was last held in 2007.
‘During normal times, when the system is not stress-tested, it operates very well,’ Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy said in a 12-page report of Singapore’s bureaucracy.
‘However, during difficult times – or when mistakes are made that reflect badly on the system – there is a tendency among bureaucrats to circle the wagons in ways that lack transparency and make accountability difficult,’ the report said.
India’s ‘suffocating bureaucracy’ was ranked the least-efficient by the survey, which said working with the country’s civil servants was a ‘slow and painful’ process.
Read the full article here.
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Do correct me, if and when I am incorrect and inaccurate.
I believe Daniel(47) was talking about the Government and Decision Makers and not kuching kurap(clerical and supporting) staff. Btw carpark attendants and school cleaners are unlikely to be Civil Servants anyway.
KopitiamApek,
nope, nope…. definitely not blaming Apek for been efficient in responsiveness
Well, those top echelon clowns just bring bad name to civil service. Even the police , army, and the whole government service are affected because the top leadership act like circus and clowns, misusing police and army for their own political agenda. In a company, if the top leadership blatantly lies and mismanage and screw big times that affect the confidence of the stakeholders, the whole company image get affected even though it is the bad ass at the top that is to be to blame. Same with Singapore Inc company. But sadly me, KopitiamApek, poor clerk, the carpark attendant, the school cleaner and everyone are also indirect stakeholders as economic digit and money-generator (eg CPF producer) for Singapore INc company, and hence we are also part of the problem.
50) ah soh
Ya. You got a point there.Please don’t call them kuching kurap lah. They are doing a respectable job. Wait they do sad jump off infront of MRT how?
carpark attendants and school cleaners are unlikely to be Civil Servants anyway.
right again. I think now everything is outsourced, including the soya sauce
ah soh ,
unfortunately, everyone in Singapore are to blamed because we are part of Singapore INc and close one eyes to whatever loss that incurred, of course, the blame is just a matter of degree. Those top echelons get blame the most because they have the authority to make decision over those state reserves and yet they choose to mismanage it by giving it blindly to some family based on TRUST, or more accurately based on FEAR and demotion.
“Wait they do sad jump off infront of MRT how?”
If they do so, let them not die in vain. May their spirit haunt the one responsible for their death indirectly.
49) SY
Let me share a recent experience at a gahmen hospital
You know with the Flu thing, and the visitor restriction, I witnessed one guy giving the poor girl working at the counter such a verbal whacking for doing her thankless job of issuing access passes that I wished someone would kick him in the a**.
civil service? which department? SIR, MOM, etc…
as good as the often trumpeted phase S’pore is clean & green. locals know better loh…
business survey? S’pore is very pro-business of cos this group give thumbs-up loh, expatriates somemore.
too much MSM, is bad for health, need to balance with kopitiam & other alternative media.
57) mice is nice
sorry for being so goondhu, but what on earth does MSM stand for?
55) Daniel
///May their spirit haunt the one responsible for their death indirectly.////
eeerieeee !!
50) Charles
/// From what a lot of older Singaporeans and retired Civil Servants have conveyed to me, the efficiency of the current Civil Service is not up to the standards of the Civil Service in the 50-60’s ///
I may be from individual perspective.
Personally (going back to my example of my recent visit to a gahmen hospital) I recall many moons ago, nurses will yell at you, I had once have a doctor went for his lunch halfway through my check up leaving me there to famish slowly.
Now they smile so much at me, for a moment I thought I was flying SIA.
hi KopitiamApek,
MSM = Main Stream Media,
i was a goondu too, but i din dare to ask, then after a few weeks. agak agak know liao.
Better a fool for a minute than for life so they say
57) mice is nice
post colonial hangover lor
angmo tua kee
hi KopitaimApek,
post #59, no wonder our union chief practising 7th month song now!! :P
post #63, must be loh, our local enterprise kenna mothballed. sad leh, no wonder quite common to hear “must succeed overseas than can make it big locally.” like our singer Staphanie Sun, she also know S’porean “pattern”.
but i different loh, i will die die buy certain local products, but not blindly support lah.
Hello Ah Gong #4 – Please see below.
The pay of Senior PS are the same as that of a Minister, up to 1.9 million bucks. In additional many PS are also members of Board of Directors of TLCs or GLCs and they do receive handsome directors fees too. Therefore, there are indeed some top Senior PSs who are paid more than a Minister. Actually the PSs are the ones doing most of the work and hence should be rewarded accordindly.
Minister/Senior Permanent Secretary MR4 59,760/1,940,000
Entry Superscale Grade SR9 18,240/398,000
Member of Parliament – 13,710/225,000
A real Civil Service in action.
The Thailand Civil Service.
During the riots and constant changing of political masters.
Kudos to them.
60) KopitiamApek on June 6th, 2009 1.10 am
//Now they smile so much at me, for a moment I thought I was flying SIA.//
Is it maybe because they charge you like a wounded bull? I hear that the room charge in the first class ward is more than a room in a 5 star hotel.
Hi Kopitiam Apek,
I notice you have been spending a lot of time in this kopi stall. You give the impression that you have a special fondness for people working in public and civil services. No problem with this except that I hope you do realise that public perception of how these go about doing their jobs will always be from both ends of the opinion spectrum.
I observed that most commenters here have stated their positions on the article presented above. However, I still have not heard your position on it. Can you tell us then, is our civil service as efficient as they are made out to be or not, and why?
Please share something concrete with us rather than just the boring “I agree” or “I do not agree” stuff whenever someone posts a comment. Ah Soh may have been impressed with your comments but unless you start taking an opinion, your participation will amount to nothing.
Please do not be offended. Just thought it might be helpful to be honest with you since you seem to come across as a nice apek.
Kopi O bottoms up! Cheers!
I was visiting. It was a B2 ward. The C ward is now a far cry from days gone by when it looks like a army barrack, 60 patients cramped into a ward, now its only 6.
///first class ward is more than a room in a 5 star hotel///
you could be right, but then we gotta be smart lah, go for the lower cost option, and suck some $ back from gahmen.
I would like to share my experience at Changi. Our civil servants are great if things are as per procedure and nothing goes wrong. But one day, I landed in Changi on a PAL flight and followed a sign to arrivals and when pass immigration where the immigration officer ask me which flight I was on and scanned my passport and let me thru.When to baggage collection then I realised to my horror than I was in terminal 1 instead of 2. I went back to immigration to ask them what to do and got a first hand taste of our famed civil service attitude. Answers i got ranged from” it not my fault”, ” you should talk to terminal 2 staff, I do not know as we are T1 staff”, ” ask ICA”, “ask CAAS”,”it is not my duty” and to the very absurd “take a taxi to terminal 2 lah and then take your baggage from there” ( which begs the question as to how I can get INSIDE the terminal to get my bag). Ding Dong it when for 1 hour until i threatened to complain, then some one got a “bright” idea than he can cancel my entry in T1 so than I can walk back to terminal 2 and get immigration to scan my passport again at T2. Well done Singapore Changi Airport, best airport in the world! Such a simple solution take so long to come up with and after some “persuasion” of a complaint.
68) gemami
/// most commenters here have stated their positions ///
I am not sure I can agree with that positions have been stated, more like lot of complaining that I read. but again that is only my humble view.
I believe in fair comment, and to praise when it is good, and to hamtam when its is not, and not to cow pay for the sake of cow pay. I stand by what I said based on personal experience and of course, baised by personal perspective. I will stick to what I stated earlier that I will not reply to personal jibes, otherwise it will degene rate into a virtual street fight, apek how to win?
Nevertheless….
///is our civil service as efficient as they are made out to be or not, and why? ///
my position
here goes….
It has improved for the man on the street (namely me) seeking gahmen sevices:
Some examples:
1. IRAS :
Then: filling up those stupid loh soh tax forms make me really pek chek
Now: E-filing
2. LTA:
Then: Pay road tax go to Sin Ming, then go to insurance co, then go dunno where else, also pek chek
Now:payment of road tax via AXS machines
3. CPF Board.
Then: Call their hotline to know how much balance you have, hold on the hotline until grow old (and pek chek)
Now: All info online
4. Hosiptial service level(please read my earlier posts, thanks)
got more example lah, but say more, pple here don’t like to hear
To save myself from severe injury, now I list some of the down side,
1.Gahmen top ranks (and I mean top ranks, not the poor sai kang guys at the bottom) getting obscene pay
2.Hospital bills are higher,
I recall one incident I oveverheard at a hospital ENT clinic
” Wah lau, wait 2 hours, go inside doctor just pull my ears, then come out, chareg $80, kanasai!)
3. I can buy 3 cars then for the same price I pay now.
To KopitiamApek,
rest assured that kuching kuraps do not die because they are given low names, I am a bigger kuching kurap than most, not a vagbond but close to being one all my years. Kuching kuraps tend to have big hearts and are mostly humble.
Only the egoistic, boastful and self-aggrandizing people have fragile nature, not weakness, just nature.
70) anakin
ICA pple are civil service
CAAS not sure
But airline counters are not.
Many moons back there were days I felt everyone are out to give me a bad day. Black faces greeted me everywhere for the day. Kopi girl rude to me, some driversI overtook looks like going to eat me for lunch, bank clerks rude to me, etc,etc….
But then I realised there is only one common thing in all these encounters, it is me. I look at my self in the mirror, and there to my horrors, I saw a sulky face.
Then I became a changed man, (but then sometimes changed back), I smiled, like SIA girls to everybody I met, taking care not to overdo it, lest the civil servants at Woodbridge IMH start paying special interest in me. And, eureka, I did get a better day.
So maybe that is what we may have to do to make ourself have a better service experience, is to be a better customer ourslves first, that is the part that we have control, and if sway sway still get kanasai service, then maybe it our kharma liao.
: 0
just 1 cent worth of mythoughts.
From this ST news, I wonder what possibility exist in this universe that the civil servants be getting back the cuts in 1 lump sum when usa has saved the world?
74) Only when the Fat Lady sings
Civil service pay a portion of the year end bonus in July.
So not paying anything now does not mean they will not pay it back in December.
So you may be right. Let us watch when USA (or any other superhero) saves the world
Hi KopitaimApek,
thanks for your advise, although it would not have helped me with the concerned situation at Changi but it does help to have a smiling face nonetheless.
Hi KopitiamApek,
Can I take it that your position is this: That there is improvement in our civil service but not anywhere near ‘most efficient’?
Let us then take a look at the improvements you have offered above. The first three items are basically due to the electronic advancement we are experiencing all over the world. If Singapore’s civil service has been making progress, so have others. Surely we are not saying we are the most efficient simply because we have cut down on waiting time, no longer need to fill up forms and have information readily available online – just like what most other countries have improved on. Improvement defines it better and you have been proven right.
Hospital issues. For the record, I work in a hospital and I agree that hospital service standard has been getting better and better, even though I do not think that hospital service falls under the civil service category. Anyway, the better service can be attributed to the competition we are getting from regional hospitals like Thailand and Malaysia – that are enticing patients to seek health care there with better facilities, better service and travel incentives. It is not because we have suddenly become so gracious and nice but because we have to compete tooth and nail for every patient.
Hospital bills. This is one sticky problem where public education is required. Very often it is the case that a patient would wait for hours before being seen for two minutes. What the patient does not see is that his medical records are studied by the doctors the night before the appointment, or at least before the patient enters the consultation room. Some even have to go through group discussion before the patient is seen. So it is not just a two mintue process.
The mosquito problems are unresolved in certain estates for months if not longer.
These are said by KopitiamAhpek as Public Servants instead of Civil servants.
So, how can we give them our report card on these Servants? Public, that is.
My feet now looks like Kampong days when I was a kid, bitten to the season by the mosquitoes with countless 5 cents and 1 cents and sometimes even 50 cents. scars.
When I shifte to HDB as leaseholder many decades ago, I was free of mosquito. Now, its like going back to living in a Kampong.
delete this if I digressed too much.
77) gemami
It is so refreshing to discuss with you on a nice Staurday morning. rational, insightful, way to go…
///Can I take it that your position is this: That there is improvement in our civil service but not anywhere near ‘most efficient’? ///
Yes. I am definitely not in the position to say it is most efficient. (don’t even know which are the 12 places except India stated in the article) as for India, may take a few lifetimes to visit that one place alone.
///basically due to the electronic advancement we are experiencing all over the world. ///
not sure uniformly all over the world, advances at diff rate I would say
///Hospital issues. …..I agree that hospital service standard has been getting better and better, …. better service can be attributed to the competition …////
competition always have that kind of outcome, which is good
///Hospital bills. This is one sticky problem where public education is required. Very often it is the case that a patient would wait for hours before being seen for two minutes. What the patient does not see is that his medical records are studied by the doctors the night before the appointment, or at least before the patient enters the consultation room. Some even have to go through group discussion before the patient is seen. So it is not just a two mintue process.///
thank you for the insight.
public education is the key word here.
many thing done behind the scene are not known to the public, I am happy that you brought this up.
this is one pouint I try hard to put thru here in TOC, especially to the complainers, seek to understand before being understood…
perhaps, the PR should be beefed up to so that public perception of their work can be improved.
but some time they do it they do PR one way one way and get percieved another, way, as we read the reactions on the upturn downturn thing.
I hope people will look at the content of the survey and its selective group of candidates. Therefore, the results published are strictly the perceptions of this group of selective candidates and by all means it may not represent the general views of local who may otherwise have varying experiences.
Neutrally, I think there are good and bad in all sectors (not just civil sectors). Are there no good MPs in the parliament? Are there no good people in the private sectors? Are there no good civil servants at the lower rung?
There will be complains in all issues when it is published for public discourse. So it is indeed up to each individual to perceive whether they agree with the survey. No need to resort to personal bickering which to me is counter productive and does not help in the unity of minds to improve bad service or to better quality service level.
Personally, I have experienced better services; when I needed to renew my passport, make inquiries about CPF arrangement at front desk of CPF board when I am back in Singapore (even I could do it online), make arrangement with TC to clear huge debris, just to name a few, and I have to say, the civil servants attending to me were cordial, friendly and quite efficiently indeed.
IMHO, I think it works both ways. The tone we used when making inquiries and whether we have made our inquiry message clear to the point for the recipient attending to you does make a difference. Please remember, these frontline civil servants are also human and fellow citizenry. They do have emotion and dignity like we all do. Having said, it still boils down to individual perception and their encounters. I think sharing of experiences (like within the subject matter of this article) will help us foster a better and improved mindset on areas where we hope to carry this towards a more civilized, matured and compassionate society.
Sincerely,
Observer (SG-HK)
78) TC performance
Whatever servants they are called (actually they could ue a better term, servant sound so degrading), may I humbly suggest you email to the town council as I found when put in writing things tend moves faster.
#80,
I’t s positioning. Positioning their image into the minds of people that they are ‘servants’, (thereby giving the impression that people’s needs are of utmost importance, and will be served). Therefore the term becomes secondary to them since many enjoy great salaries anyway.
I am not suggesting that improved efficiency doesn’t come at a price, but for what they are paid, it’s NOT value for money.
Not sure what happens in the KopiTiam, but there are many variations in the real world, especially the private sector that work this way.
1. It’s ok to point out bad experiences with the civil service sector. No problem with that.
2. But to make a fair comparison, the quality of service must be compared against other civil sectors.
14) KopitiamApek on June 5th, 2009 1.13 pm
I just want to remind you that freedom of speech is rely FREEDOM to speak. If you only allow people who supports and agree with what you say to speak, you are not longer allowing freedom of speech.
What you see here about your so-call “handum gahman” opinions reflex on the popularity of the government among the netizen. This is also the reason why the government is also worried, because their suppressing the truth methods is loosing its effect on the voters.
Having said all that, I agree that we should not just criticized the civil servants, they have come a long way and improved over the years. BY THE WAY, to me, Civil Servants mean Civil Servants, not the government and the ministers.
Our government is different from the civil servants. In fact the civil servants deserve more cost they are the actual people doing all the job…. The ministers then take the glory and together the huge salary package.
I think better pay the civil servants more and do away with the ministers. We may be better off.
83) Joel Low
Hi Joel, thank you for your respose.
///I just want to remind you that freedom of speech is rely FREEDOM to speak. If you only allow people who supports and agree with what you say to speak, you are not longer allowing freedom of speech. ///
Completely in agreement with you. If I understand you correctly, you are implying that I am “allowing” those who only share my views to post here? No. How could I possiblity have the authority to do that? Only TOC can. But I do state that I reserve the right of not replying to those who take personal jibes. My reasons have been posted earlier.
///What you see here about your so-call “handum gahman” opinions reflex on the popularity of the government among the netizen. ///
I am not disputing that. But I do try to provide my point of view in the hope of making discussions here evolve into something more than gahmen bashing, which is my oft repeated opinion, good for letting off steam, but beyond that , its usefulness is questionable.
///This is also the reason why the government is also worried, because their suppressing the truth methods is loosing its effect on the voters.///
I will let the gahmen worry about that.
///BY THE WAY, to me, Civil Servants mean Civil Servants, not the government and the ministers.///
I believe the line is drawn between the erected (oops, elected) and those employed.
///Our government is different from the civil servants. In fact the civil servants deserve more cost they are the actual people doing all the job…. The ministers then take the glory and together the huge salary package. ///
Reality of life leh, kar kai do sai kang, whil the top gets the glory.
Private sector CEO pokkai the whole dung company and still get golden parachute. But don’t get me wrong, I am not saying we should be paying our ministers the same way (see my other posts)
///I think better pay the civil servants more and do away with the ministers. We may be better off.////
How to split this inseperatable siamese twins?
Have a good Saturday.
Having work in the civil service before, I am unsure why we are voted no 1 for civil service efficiency.
The complaint letters came coming and maybe becasue we handle so many of the public demands for work/training requests we are in the hot seats.
The hospital used to be no 1 for complaints but after they changed their service standard, the complaints dropped.
I find that having 60,000 public servants looking after 4 million people is alot too much.
Some depts i know hardly do any credible work and they get paid in the region of $4000 – $5000 after chalking up more than 20 yrs of service. Many stay on as it is safe and not very difficult work.
Some depts can close down anytime if not for the “loyalty” concept of the govt not to rock the boat too much.
Ministries working in beautiful top class buildings also do their work well and hardly have any suggestions for improvement. So long as they can go to work and operate within their perimeter they can get paid by the several thousands a month whereas private sector all get the chop when economy goes down.
There are also two tea breaks and a mandatory one hour lunch break a day. Many now operate for five days a week.
It is no wonder that many of my friends opt for civil service work nowadays!
85) Gilbert
Sound heavenly place to work.
Why did you quit if it was so good?
I went to HDB and Q for about 30 mins to make some enquiries.Of the 5 queries that I had prepared ,the customer service officer only managed to answer me 1 directly ,She had to check the website and get the answer before answering the other 3 .And these queries are applicable to others.The last question,she was unable to answer and ask me to check with the website myself.
How about those who has got no computer or those with lesser education who needs help??
Is this efficiency?
88) sookoo
Ya. HDB is still one that need to do a lot more in terms of service improvement.
85) Gilbert
///I find that having 60,000 public servants looking after 4 million people is alot too much.///
the civil service in hongkong = 160,100
How many do you think is a good number for Singapore?
The only people who are qualified to assess them should be the people.
Do not use other countries to compare.
Apple cannot be compared with Baluku.
The situation there and here is different.
Stop using sweeping statements.
Too many civil servants has a special effect which if you dunno what i am talking about, then there is no need to ask me also.
91) To 90
are you Gilbert or are you answering for Gilbert?
not another one with many nicks again?
///The only people who are qualified to assess them should be the people.///
Like you?
///Do not use other countries to compare.
Apple cannot be compared with Baluku.////
Then how do we compare?
///The situation there and here is different.///
How is it different?
///Stop using sweeping statements.////
What sweeping statements?
///Too many civil servants has a special effect which if you dunno what i am talking about, then there is no need to ask me also.///
Too many compared to what? Who thinks is too many? You?
I would also like to highlight the issue of lift upgrading. I’ve stayed in my 3 room HDB flat for 30 years. I’ve seen newer flats that have been upgraded. What is the criteria used to prioritise lift upgrading across the country? Whether TCs have enough savings? Lifts that stop at every floor was used as an election carrot during the last election, and this isn’t fulfilled yet. I suspect it’ll be used in this election again.
Well you’d better be extra-ordinarily good when you’re being paid extra-ordinarily high income 6 times that of Obama !
93) pancake,
Well pancade unless you’ve been living in Mars for the past 30years, you’ll realise that the upgrading programme is tied to the election votes. If you happened to live in a opp ward, then sorry lor, your estate will be placed last in the que for the upgrading, being lift or MUP. PAP has been dangling this upgrading carrort perennially in their election campaign.
90) KopitiamApek,
Correction, we have 66,000 public servants which equates to a ratio of 1 public servant to approx 60 pax in SG. Though I’m no expert in statistics, this figure is surely a tad too high.
And taking avg income of $40K (+bonus) per annum for the civil servant, that is a whopping $2.65B every year that all citizens need to chalk up to pay them !
And I’ve yet to even include the multi-million dollar salaries that our top govt officials are rewarding themselves every year.
93) pancake on June 7th, 2009 9.11 am
I went to TJ Pagar estate have a look.
Flats I saw were so old and maciam 1980′s lifts. over 12 storey flats, you get 2 stops along the way. the rest you climb.
I feel sad for the residents.
But I am sure they not sad as they accept it.
I heard the prices there also somehow, very high.
96) SideTrack Correction,
///we have 66,000 public servants which equates to a ratio of 1 public servant to approx 60 pax in SG. Though I’m no expert in statistics, this figure is surely a tad too high.///
Yes. If you look at it that way, it do seems a lot. Would be useful to have comparative data to look at. But I could not find any leh.
///And taking avg income of $40K (+bonus) per annum for the civil servant, that is a whopping $2.65B every year that all citizens need to chalk up to pay them !///
I can’t comment on that as I do not know what is their avg pay. But it is a whopping figure alrigh !
What happens if more citizens get employed under their payroll?
Get the drift?