Ng E-Jay / Current Affairs Desk
With contributions from Gerald Giam and Ravi Philemon
Recent proposals to amend the Maintenance of Parents Act suggests an act by the government to pass the buck of caring for the elderly to their children, but this puts an inconsiderable strain especially on lower-income groups.
PROGRESSIVELY encroaching on the private lives of citizens under the umbrella of public interest is a constant refrain of our paternalistic Government.
The recent proposal to amend the Maintenance of Parents Act to allow third parties to invoke it is a case in point.
(Photo: Who will fend for the old folks in our nation? Courtesy of foodinmouth / Creative Commons)
Granted, all children do have a serious moral responsibility of caring for their aged parents. But the law is an extremely blunt instrument to use in what is primarily a family issue.
Family members interact with each other not just at the economic level, but more importantly, emotionally as well.
Resorting to the law to settle family disputes, especially one over financial matters, is not just a rude intrusion into what is primarily private space, but also easily lends itself to abuse.For example, are there steps taken to ensure that the authorities listen to both sides of the story before deciding on a claim? I can conceive of situations where the children are in financial difficulties themselves, or the parents are the ones making life difficult for the family, yet the law is used unjustly against the children.
In our Asian culture, it is also considered bad manners to wash dirty linen in public, which is what the law seeks to accomplish. Another issue that has not been adequately discussed by proponents of the Act is that working adults should also have the means of supporting their spouses and children.
If a person earns even $1,200 per month, he or she would be hard put to support both the kids as well as the elders. Would the law treat such a working adult fairly in this scenario?
Is the Act a necessity?
Introduced in 1995, the Maintenance of Parents Act gives parents above the age of 60 the legal means of claiming maintenance from their children.
In its first year, over 150 applicants filed claims with the tribunal for the Act, located at the then Ministry of Community Development (subsequently renamed to Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports, or MCYS).
The number of applicants has dropped steadily over the years, though there has been a rise in applicants over the past two years, with 127 elderly suing their children for support in 2008. Sums range from a token $10 to over $2,000 per month for families with more than one child.
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports, announced in his speech at the recent Parliamentary Debate on the President’s Address that a review of the Maintenance of Parents Act to enhance support for the elderly was in progress.
One proposal raised was amending legislation to compel children to declare their earnings in order to assess their ability to support their parents.
Last Friday, Channel News Asia also reported comments made by Mr Lim Boon Heng, Minister at the Prime Minister’s Office, who said that the Act may be amended to allow third parties to invoke it on behalf of parents who might be reluctant to use the Act against their own children.
Mr Lim mentioned that while it was not a good thing to invoke the Act to force a child to support his or her parents, it is something that is necessary in today’s context.
Paternalism rearing its ugly head Our Government is infamous for its vehement stand against welfarism and its habit of touting the buzz phrase “self-sufficiency” as some kind of panacea that can cure society’s ills. Are the Maintenance of Parent’s Act and the recently debated amendments further steps that the Government is taking to push the buck of responsibility for elderly care entirely to the children so that the state can take a back seat? Admittedly, the other side of the coin is that some children also try to pass the buck of responsibility for elderly care back to the state. However, the problem with the proposed amendment mentioned by Mr Lim Boon Heng is that it is too skewed — the Government, which presumably will be the likely “third-party” trying to invoke the Act on behalf of parents, has an incentive to keep elderly needy folk off its already threadbare welfare programmes by passing the buck to the children.
Here, the paternalistic attitude of the Government is rearing its ugly head, because there is the implicit assumption that a third-party is a better judge of whether children have the financial means to supporting their old folks.
Changing demographics
Singapore‘s changing demographics are a cause for concern in light of our Government’s attempts to push as much as the buck as possible off its own coffers.
The proportion of those above 65 years old will roughly double from 8% now to 19% by 2030; at the same time the average number of kids in a household decreased from 3 in 1980 to 2 in 2000, and will probably continue to decline; the dependency ratio will shrink from 7.6 to 3.1 working adult per dependent (i.e. child and elderly person) in 2030.
It will simply become more difficult for working adults to maintain dependents, particularly for many of those at the lower income strata, which on current trends, aren’t going to see their income increasing by much in the foreseeable future.
Furthermore, it has been pointed out that quite a few of those who have been taken to task under the Act so far had failed to pay because they became unemployed.
What the amended Act might do is to prevent some of the most egregious cases of children shirking their burdens, but it is likely that many more elderly folk will live out their years in relatively poverty because their kids can’t afford to really support them anyway.
The bottomline is that the state is failing to come to terms with the reality that it might have to play a bigger role in supporting the elderly.
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#Kopi..O ..Apek…
Yes, you are right and I am wrong…..not Cpf….but the Mortage loan scheme was liberalised……
I got the papers…done by..Tu & Wong…in 2002 on public housing prices and public housing policies, head straight down to pages 7 to 10.
http://www.umac.mo/fba/irer/papers/past/vol5_pdf/115_132Sing.pdf
#mice is nice…how many would do that…mmmm…honestly, I am not sure…
#Kopi..O ..Apek…
Yes, you are right but read the papers and you will notice how…HDB prices were affected….Liberalisation was done….more credit facilities….now we know why the prices flew high into the sky…
I got the papers…done by..Tu & Wong…in 2002 on public housing prices and public housing policies, head straight down to pages 7 to 10.
http://www.umac.mo/fba/irer/papers/past/vol5_pdf/115_132Sing.pdf
#mice is nice…how many would do that…mmmm…honestly, I am not sure…
92) mice is nice
///so why is the govt making it a law to penalise (most) children who are increasely finding it harder just to survive now if not the near & distant future?////
sorry lah, but I am a sucker for stats….
we really need to know how what proportion of the retired will be in financial deep sh*t and as a result drag their children into the same financial sh*thole.
1. if let’s say it is a large proportion, say 90%, then it is really serious and gahmen is pre empting this tsunami and passing the sh*t back to citzens.
2. if it is a smaller proportion, then why gahmen need todo this.
3. Another possibility is that gahmen is tackling a group of well to do citizens who may dump their “used” parents to the state and end up taxpayers picking up the bill.
103) prettyplace
#Kopi..O ..Apek…
Hey I KoptiamApek lah not kopi o apek, that one is my brother : )
///….Liberalisation was done….more credit facilities….now we know why the prices flew high into the sky…////
Ya. Credit facilities in the mode of pte banks offering loans to HDB flat buyers, was a move to stop HDB from being a another bank (which it was for a long time actually) so with pte bank comes pte valuers, and with it comes amazing things happening in the market like you mentioned ,prices shooting to the moon…
so then like an afterthought, they started loan eligibilty control if you are getting a loan direct from HDB,
Prior to that, it was ridiculously easy to get a loan that you can get your 99 year grandmother to apply for a flat and they will still give her a 25 year loan tenure. And a lot jump into the bandwagon to become upgraders as they drool when they see others make a kill in selling their old flats, so the commit to buy a bigger flat with the presumption that they will make similar kill. Since HDB do not control how much they can loan, they loan. But when they collect the keys to their new flat, they realised that their old flat’s price has bombed out, and they are stuck with a bigger flat and a bigger loan.
It is the bigger fool theory.
I wrote about thi s predicament in another post on the subject of “If HDB making profit out of HDB owners woes”
93) prettyplace on June 18th, 2009 2.44 am #91….KopitiamApek…
///that was in the past tense….now i’m doing just fine….////
glad to hear that
////…i took my dads advice…going on my own…///
congrats. entrepreneurs is a unique lot, only 1 – 2% of the population do that
it beats running the treadmill of working llife
95) gemami
actually the terms third world / first world status was not started by me
I was answering to a question and reurgitating the same terms
I am guilty of using it without really understanding why we call them such
I think it is too convenient that we fit this country to 1st world, another country 3rd world. In reality, no country can be in the excat same stage of development, rather the countries of our beautiful planet atre in a continuum of different states of development, economically, socially, politically, etc
hi PrettyPlace,
i dun need to worry, as i can do nothing about it.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
hi KopitiamApek,
post #104,
you have a point, but when does it cross the line where law threads? for govt to take such drastic pre-emptive measure is to put the cart before the horse. strange, since govt’s stance is for the situation to develope then respond. just as is the case for H1N1- dun over-react.
you like stats, but stats dun give 1 a more complete picture. reality does not always lend itself to a 1 + 1 = 2 picture perfect scenerio. another example is the MiniBond, High Notes, etc saga. i wonder how many baby boomers lost their life savings….
hmmm, no wonder govt is forming that law, maybe CPF Board itself no $$ to pay out to those retired? then push the drawdown age further again some time down the road?
#Kopitiamapek….sorry, sorry…lol…
Yeah, they sure brought in certain policies after realising they were going no where…HLE …
I think there is serious trouble with our govt’s budget……I am not sure how much they are geared..meaning outstanding loans and treasury they have….all this will need interest payment….just speculating perhaps they sold the Barclay and BoA shares just to get enough liquidity….
#mice is nice…
I know what i’ll do with mine and I’m sure they know too….and I don’t give a damn…hahaha..
108) mice is nice
I just learnt, sadly, my good friend lost 50% lately.
CPF min sum by 2015(?) will be $130K. With that, a large proportion of the lower wage citizens will never see their CPF.
It was a really sneaky gahmen move without having to go back to rasing of CPF withdrawal age, a extremely unpopular proposal in the past which cost them the huge vote swing.
hi PrettyPlace,
the power of the paper!! ;)
dun dream just yet, 1 day away is very long… *faint*
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
hi KopitaimApek,
when i grow old i may never see the CPF $$$, should i ask for 100% cash-upfront, CPF be damned! ;P
lol, the easiest way to make money is to milk the people. Make people do the work for you. Of course, taking care of parents is morally correct, but in this case, i see a mere excuse to cut cost like how a big corporation would do when face with a negative P&L.
Sometimes i wonder why we are so suspicious of our gov actions and plans. What could be the root cause ….. we can’t believe a family is running this country, the father, son, wife, some relatives and friends ???
why is the government so carin on our ahkongs?
when we cannot even seek the government to release their cpf savin$ when their cpf$$$ is dued?
the government want$ to control their $weat money
yet pu$h the maintainance$ to the next kin$
who already have $o muck difficultie$/runnin their finance$/mortgage$ bread$ & butter$ i$$ue$……
if the government i4 genuied worrid about the true plight$ of $ingaporean$ ahkong$, they $hould $tart with retirin the mental mini$ter him$elf and made his $on$ and daughter pay him hi$ $100,000 monthly $alarie$ from their pocket$
a$ though they cannot afford it?
“asks the mother of all questions – “You talk the talk – but do you walk the walk?””
onced again a courtesy $entence from a realname poster here
maybe he liked to $hare with u$ his view$ a$ well…..
one thinggie i a$$ured all fellow reader$ here
my parents/grandparents didnt died of hungers or homeless
they died with pride and buried with full family tradition$
every dollar$ $pent was from our hardtoiled sweat and blood wage$……
‘One proposal raised was amending legislation to compel children to declare their earnings in order to assess their ability to support their parents.’
E.g. Looks like if we happen to take home decent earnings at the point they assess our income (and made the law enforceable on us), and got :
(a) retrenched, and remained unemployed or
(b) severe paycut
our safety net has a big hole right away.
Policy makers need to show that instead of just knowing how to think of theoretical approaches, they should look at comprehensive coverage in the larger context.
I am not trying to put a roadblock on implementation. In fact, I am a proponent that children should support their parents, and the implementation may do some good, especially for old folks who have given their all to bring up their kids, yet been deserted elsewhere by them, who are now well-to-do. There are just too many loopholes open for both the government and public to take easy ways out.
We claim that the median salary of a household is about $4500.
E.g. the government is looking at replacement rate of 2.1, so if a family already has 2 kids, and a house of about $200k is purchased, then even excluding interests (this can fluctuate),
We need (at least) no. of months equivalent to : (200000)/ (repayment amount)
Our repayment amount depends on how much you save both in cash, and useable cpf, so let’s say this amount is $4500 – $2500 per month for 2 kids. Try managing with this budget if we have to send kids to childcare.
So, even for a decent apartment of $200k, we use up most of your savings over (200000/ 2000) per month to service the apartment = 100 months or about 8 years.
The feasibility of retirement savings is directly affected by how long a period in our productive worklife in which the interim savings isn’t high, or is near zero.
So the longer your savings remain low in our productive years, the lower our likelihood we have enough to retire.
So, it seemed like something gives at the end even in a decent family with median income : retirement, kids, or apartment ? or support/ potential support for old folks ?
what Singaporean need to know is that all the problems such:
1. Low birth rate
2. Foreign bride and husband
3. High living cost
4. Jobless
5. Expensive public housing
6. Social problem (glue sniffing, high stress, commit sucide etc)
7. Ah kong problem
8. Leehmen bros
Are problem created one failed policy covering up another. The fact is Singapore government no long have the cability to solve problem. They just migrated it to the next generation until it collaspe at one point. All hell will just break loose! At that point of time, let us see how effective our home team really is.
But I am sure, I would there to witness it because I will get out of this place for good and take back all my CPF (in the pipeline of my planning). There is no point loyal to the country where it is ruled by gangs of greed. Surely I also do not need them to tell me how should use my CPF. Everyone has a choice and some point of time. Majority of Singaporean just didn’t see that.
111) mice is nice
Some people use up their CPF to buy investment properties, collect rent on them, so they need not wait till 55 to smell it.
That is one way. Until they plug this loophole too.
hi KopitiamApek,
pardon me if i am wrong. my impression that CPF money got restriction. not like i want to go some fancy restaurant with my hot date can use, even if i am 60 years old!!
:P
#116) RED-man
There is no point loyal to the country where it is ruled by gangs of greed. Surely I also do not need them to tell me how should use my CPF. Everyone has a choice and some point of time. Majority of Singaporean just didn’t see that.
Alot of Singaporeans are still thinking that they can have their CPF monies back someday. Unfortunately, alot of them are sleeping in their dream still. Just wait till the day come when they discover that what they have are actually digits written on their cpf statements, then it will be too too late to cry their eye balls out.
I came across this line while looing up some details …
wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#Replacement_rates
” In developing countries on the other hand, families desire children for their labour and as caregivers for their parents in old age. ”
So maybe we are still a developing country..
or maybe the govt policies thru time has kept some aspect of our society in stagnation…
or maybe its just my imagination….
118) mice is nice
CPF min sum by 2013 will be $120K. With that, a large proportion of the lower wage citizens will never see their CPF.
The Minimum Sum was set at $80,000 in 2003 and will be raised gradually until it reaches $120,000 (in 2003 dollars) in 2013. These amounts will be adjusted yearly for inflation. If you are unable to set aside your full Minimum Sum in cash, your property, bought with your CPF savings, will be automatically pledged for up to half of your Minimum Sum. You will receive a miserable monthly income from your Draw-Down Age (like 65 yrs old) until your Minimum Sum is exhausted.
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/explorefaq.asp?category=23004
So you gotta act to re-channel your CPF in whatever ways the rule still permits before you get 55. The noose is tightening.
KopitiamAhpek
they won’t plug this hole, because Singapore only punish the poor but not the rich. It is simple, those that can buy a few properties and collect rents are people who have spare cash. Moreover, they need this group of people to keep the properties price alive. Just tell me, how many of us here can do that? Buy one HDB already almost pay until our throat already. Unless you make alot of money out of the first house. But this hole is not only plugged, it has filled with concrete and sealed up for good. This profit has been transferred to their pocket by tagging the new HDB near to the surrounding HDB resale value!
I will like my passed away ah kong, he left china for Singapore. I will leave Singapore for another country! That’s the only
way to take back your CPF.
hi KopitiamApek,
wah, sad ah. looks like when i old the cardboard i collect will be my coffin… -.-”
Alternative you can wait for the rest of the Singaporean or turned Singaporean to vote the PAP out of the shit hole. However, I doubt the next ruling party can do any changes. Because If they revert the HDB policy back to the olden days, a lot of those owning few properties to collect rents and those that had already brought the HDB during PAP time will curse and swear at them (the opposition). If the opposition really want to win the next election, they better have stacks of solution to fill
up the shit holes that was created by the PAP.
But my best guess is that, by then the PAP would have bring 70% of Singapore wealth out of the country. So, what do the then opposition and people of Singapore left with? At that time, most likely the PAP people will be in some interview laughing at the opposition are useless without the PAP. And probe that Singapore without them, cannot make it lah! Of course, you would think 30% of the country wealth is not so bad. But truth is, those pro PAP people or turned Singaporean would also bring their money out of Singapore. So what? 20% of the Singapore wealth left for poor singaporean who cannot get out?
Think again Singapore. Your beautiful dream is only one line away from the endless pit hole. If you still haven’t realise that Good and BAd can change hand in a matter of seconds. You are very much living at the edge.
The best way to torture people is to give them a little hope and then take it away from him. And it seems we are very much at this stage for the past 5 years. Yes, LKY is great to turn Singapore into a gold mine, but only reserve it to himself in the end. Smart? Maybe! Great leader? Well… History will tell but I think you and Me know where it is heading. Wisdom? Greed don’t co-exist with wisdom.
let us hope the lee family can sleep well at home, and the whole family live well to see another day and have a HAPPY ending for them, yah?! The only hope we have now is to wait for the universe to unfold itself. Good bless all the good men here.
hi RED-man,
dun worry too much about wealth. for only in times of need will we see those who truely love this tiny country stay & stick together to make it work. just as in the early days of our independance.
Well, mice is nice
your comment is logical. Maybe it is a blissing for Singapore to fall into the pit hole first. So that all the greed, coward and crappy people to be purged out. Like anti-oxidant in our body. It smell when they are in the process of purging. Thereafter it will repair itself.
How can we rebuild when things are not destroyed? Destruction is the beginning of building.
124) RED-man
Agree.
Manupulaton of property price is a 2 edged sword, like try to dig yourself out of the hole. A yes, majority will only be able to afford one house.
Remember, the house you stay is in is a liability, the asset is only when you have another one.
Our ah kong has only themselve to blame because:
1. They put too much trust in Kuan Yew in the past.
2. They believe every words he said without questioning.
3. Even follow his stupid instruction “two is enough” that lead to our current aging poplution with less younger population to take care of the older.
Now, while the law can be used to punish the children who don’t take care of their parent. Is that a law to hang the person who came out with the 2 is enough law that give so much problem to the country today. To start with, the FT problem!
127) RED-man
/// The best way to torture people is to give them a little hope and then take it away from him///
No one can give another person hope except the person himself.
No one can take away another’s person’s hope unless he allows it.
133) KopitiamApek on June 27th, 2009 11.43 pm
///No one can give another person hope except the person himself.
No one can take away another’s person’s hope unless he allows it.///
Go tell those people that get cancer. So far only LHL and his father can cheat death. Apek, drink your coffee before it get cold.
93) KopitiamApek on June 17th, 2009 10.43 pm
/// He did not blame the state then, did he/, but you are now.///
wow apek, you must have time machine. Can tell his father didn’t blame the state. As mentioned, keep your throat busy with that cup of kopi yah? Don’t choke yourself. Try minimise hanging around crowded places. Easy to get H1N1 you know? Worry for you that apex can die easily because of complication if get infected. Got $214 to pay but still no life to see another day.
Oh I see, maybe now not much people go kopi thiam, you no choice too free hang around in TOC to “act” like wise man. LOL
hi KopitiamApek, on June 27th, 2009 11.43 pm,
counselling, group therapy can give 1 hope in/directly.
a very persuasive person (spin doctors) can sell hope & make money from it too.
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hi REDman, on June 20th, 2009 2.49 am,
your analogy is slightly different from what i had in mind, but overall the concept is similiar.
i was thinking
“this is the tried & tested way babies learn to walk, babies have tripped & fall countless times in the process of learning how to walk on 2-legs, if the baby is so afraid of the pain to even attempt to walk on 2-legs, s/he will always be on 4 limps.”
or
“can anyone imagine a bunch of fearful infantrymen who do not dare to take a hit? cowed by fear they remain pinned in static position… such men will put an entire battlion in danger, not just their own lives!”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
back to the topic,
so similiarly, many (there are always slackers lah) senior citizens of today have tolled during their productive years to build a nation they hoped will benefit their children & grandchildren. while being filial in the bedrock of Asian society, does the nation not own them anything in return?
maybe TOC can further expand on this topic to include “What it means to retire gracefully or meaningfuly.”? not just view seniors as liabilities. ;)
Dear apek
it is ok, you don’t agree with some of the comments here. But going around splashing cold bucket of water at people isn’t gonna make you any wiser than them btw. Maybe you would like to try dropping the kopithiam and go to starbuck for a change. Maybe then, you can understand why young people think the way they think. Yah?
Stay H1N1 free and get yourself a new cup of kopi gau, believe it can help you
to straighten up abit. Cheers
Dear mice is nice.
Too some extend, I do agree with apek that some of the thing in life you can control. However, the challenge of life is not about the easy part, but how you overcome difficulties. One of my wise friend did remarked that if life is a straight line, it won’t be interesting and life get boring.
Different people have different idea on retirement. For me, if I were to work very hard for my children and able to see her stand on her own feet. That would a reassurance to myself. By then, it should be the time to carry on with what I dream to do. However, I am willing to move out of here to achieve that. In another words lower my expectation in life and seek more meaningful way to live the rest of my remaining chapters instead of dwelling in a kopi thiam.
Most important thing here is about the direction in front of you. As a Singaporean, I do feel great that in such short period of time, Singapore has advance so far. Question is, at who expenses? Are we going to trade our life for advancement that make us abandon the truth meaning of life?
hi RED-man,
not that i disagree that some things are within our control, but that will depend on who that question is posed to, & that answer will vary greatly. eh, let’s not get too philosophical here, this topic is not about boredom.
the current reality is that many of the current & near future generation of S’poreans will have problems standing up on their 2 feet.
eh, thanks for sharing your personal opinions on how you intend to lead your life, but this is not the platform. a little self indulge here, eh? :P what have you to say about others who can barely afford to take care of their parents financially now & in time to come?
134) RED-man
///No one can give another person hope except the person himself.
No one can take away another’s person’s hope unless he allows it.///
Go tell those people that get cancer. ////
Some terminally ill people are less pathethic and have more positive attitude than the constant complainers cum whiners here at TOC.
One day when these complainer reach that end stage they may look back in regret and ask themselves, why did I not live my life positively, why did I ruined it by being so negative.
////So far only LHL and his father can cheat death.////
this is the typical irrelavance and straying from the subject in TOC
/// Apek, drink your coffee before it get cold.////
personal jibe unnecessary
137) RED-man
///. But going around splashing cold bucket of water at people isn’t gonna make you any wiser than them btw. ////
please be specific, which of my post imply that?
///Maybe you would like to try dropping the kopithiam and go to starbuck for a change. Maybe then, you can understand why young people think the way they think. Yah? ///
personal jibe unnecessary
///Stay H1N1 free and get yourself a new cup of kopi gau, believe it can help you
to straighten up abit. Cheers///
personal jibe unnecessary
136) mice is nice
///counselling, group therapy can give 1 hope in/directly.
a very persuasive person (spin doctors) can sell hope & make money from it too.///
we should not be surprised,
Some GPs are also spin doctors, pseudo counsellor if you like, they become a listening ear to the old and lonely, (which is a good thing) but they choose not tell these folks they (GPs) are not the correct peope to approach, as they are really not sick, so these folks keep coming back, keep paying fee (which is rather unethical)
there are black sheep everywhere, but we should not generalise and say all GPs are like that.
135) RED-man
/// He did not blame the state then, did he/, but you are now.///
wow apek, you must have time machine. Can tell his father didn’t blame the state. ////
the author of that post has already gracefully answered the question, and with no sacarism. please read
///As mentioned, keep your throat busy with that cup of kopi yah? Don’t choke yourself. Try minimise hanging around crowded places. Easy to get H1N1 you know? Worry for you that apex can die easily because of complication if get infected. Got $214 to pay but still no life to see another day.
Oh I see, maybe now not much people go kopi thiam, you no choice too free hang around in TOC to “act” like wise man. LOL////
personal jibe unnecessary
LOL @ Apex:
So when the table turn around at you, it is “personal jibe unnecessary”. Since you think the people here are negative. Then let’s ask the question, what kind of person poke at negative person?
Sorry Apex, but your present is so strong here that it is hard not to notice it. For awhile, I thought TOC hire you to moderate people comments here. Then again there is a different between moderate and poking. If you sincerely want people to be positive, show some leadership and try motivation. It works better. Yah?
139) mice is nice on June 28th, 2009 2.31 am
referring to:
what have you to say about others who can barely afford to take care of their parents financially now & in time to come?
Seriously mice is nice, you caught me on that. As a management level people, I was always taught by my top management not to speculate. I really don’t have the figure on how many of these people is because of government policies (personal opinion, I feel this might be most of the cases) judging from day to day expenses, transportation, housing, medical etc. There are also the group of people that like Apex said very negative and blame everything to circumstances even if it is good (but I believe it is only minority). You see, when government say Singaporean is choosy and reliance. They did not really support it with figures.
Dear Apex and mice is nice
What I believe is, if majority of the Singaporean are negative people, we would not have so much money to pay the useless second or third generation of PAP. You can have good government, but if your people is rebellious by natural, I believe what PM said about the fixing “thing” would have come truth.
One thing I am sure, is that when the population come to a tipping point where 60% of them cannot afford a descent living. The negative side of human will very soon translated into action. I sincerely believe most Singaporean want to take care of their parents and had been working very hard to do that. But it is also the expectation from their hardwork that they failed to get it that become what they are today.
Everyone has their expectation, be it positive or negative, it really has nothing to do with me. Who am I to judge? I can be negative at time. It is also none of my business. Mice, telling about what I look forward to the future give you already some insight how I feel about Singapore. In a game that you can’t beat, there is only two choices. One is to get out of the game (which I will choose that) another is to join it (sorry, I do not want to stuck in a rat race).
If Singaporean still don’t wake up in the next election and do what they suppose to do. I am afraid, Apex is right! And I am sorry that it is not my path to fight on the losing side. Just “moving forward” like my top management always say.
144) RED-man
By the way, please use the full name, no “apex” nor “apek” here. Just like I will not call you “man”
For clarity, can?
I noticed you avoided answering all the questions.
It is perfectly ok to me though.
/// For awhile, I thought TOC hire you to moderate people comments here. ///
You have a good imagination.
Hi KopitiamApek
fair enough, I forget there is so many types of apek. Let’s see geylang apex, community centre apex, qi ko apex etc etc…
Btw, why should I answer when I already know where it’s gonna lead to? Right? Imagination? Right, we wouldn’t have be able to fly if there isn’t any imagination.
hi RED-man,
eh, i can’t any poster with the nick “Apex”.
seriously you are going rather off-topic in the following posts,
post #145, on June 28th, 2009 7.44 pm
post #147, on June 28th, 2009 8.10 pm
& partially off-topic in,
post #146, on June 28th, 2009 8.00 pm
////I sincerely believe most Singaporean want to take care of their parents and had been working very hard to do that. But it is also the expectation from their hardwork that they failed to get it that become what they are today.////
eh, i do not quite understand “But it is also the expectation from their hardwork that they failed to get it that become what they are today.”…
your further clarification will be much appreciated.
146) RED-man
///population come to a tipping point where 60% of them cannot afford a descent living. ///
60% ? based on what?
149) RED-man
///Btw, why should I answer when I already know where it’s gonna lead to? ///
thank you. judging by your past answers, such as
… Apek, drink your coffee before it get cold………..Stay H1N1 free and get yourself a new cup of kopi gau, believe it can help you to straighten up abit. ……. keep your throat busy with that cup of kopi yah? Don’t choke yourself. Try minimise hanging around crowded places. Easy to get H1N1 you know? Worry for you that apex can die easily because of complication if get infected. Got $214 to pay but still no life to see another day…….Oh I see, maybe now not much people go kopi thiam, you no choice too free hang around in TOC to “act” like wise man…….fair enough, I forget there is so many types of apek. Let’s see geylang apex, community centre apex, qi ko apex etc etc……..
by not answering,
you have a spared me and many at TOC the agony of reading more of such stuff
///by not answering,
you have a spared me and many at TOC the agony of reading more of such stuff///
MANY??? Who? AGONY??? So why do you bother To even read and response? Obviously the Agony is still not at it tipping point, Yah? อย่าพูดหัวโจก!!
152) KopitiamApek on July 2nd, 2009 9.49 pm
///thank you. judging by your past answers, such as///
you? Judge? Who are you kidding?