Comments on: Temasek losses – Enough is enough http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/ a community of Singaporeans Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:38:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: B.Kuppupokusamy http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-91375 B.Kuppupokusamy Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:11:37 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-91375 Tharman has such an adorable, glistening pate.He ought to use it to reflect more light on our CPF investment,especially the losses.......... Tharman has such an adorable, glistening pate.He ought to use it to reflect more light on our CPF investment,especially the losses……….

]]> By: ex civilian http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-80736 ex civilian Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:09:42 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-80736 I find it interesting that in 1992, the current FM was guilty of "inadvertently" letting 2 economists from Crosby Securities and 2 reporters from the Business Times see 2nd quarter flash projections of Singapore economy's performance which is considered offical matters, thus violating the Official Secrets Act. Whenever someone signs on with the civil service, they have to sign some document pertaining to the OSA and is given a copy of a list of violations which will fall under the purview of OSA. Dunno whether The FM said he didnt know it was a secret, havent tell the public means its a secret *duh* The other 4 people said, the FM gimme leber say its a secret, so all claimed they were unaware and that the govt's OSA is so undefined that anything can be considered a secret when deemed necessary. Like say some MP's bra size. The chaps from the BT went on to publish the 4.6-4.8% estimated figure in June way before Big Brother's official report in August. The current FM was then the Director of MAS. This was reported in the NY Times. Since I was in sec sch then, I cant remember reading abt it in the local papers. The current FM, who has like 3 degrees, one from LSE, Cambridge and Harvard cant tell what is official, what is secret and what you cant share with reporters. The current FM was found guilty, fined $1,500 and a decade later holds a dual portfolio of education and finance, now is the FM. And here I was under the impression that if you are convicted of a crime in Sg, you cant apply to work in the civil service, or is it that the FM is doing voluntary work and is not being paid, so the govt didnt take into consideration his criminal history. People like him end up in political positions as they have decided to take it up the ass from the current political action party. the party gets elected as a whole. they cant say, okay we are in power, but i want someone from the opposition having the educational portfolio, cos they assume since its the opp, they are GUARANTEED to screw up the job. not cos they are working for the people. no, cos their views are not in line with the BIG brother. I find it interesting that in 1992, the current FM was guilty of “inadvertently” letting 2 economists from Crosby Securities and 2 reporters from the Business Times see 2nd quarter flash projections of Singapore economy’s performance which is considered offical matters, thus violating the Official Secrets Act.
Whenever someone signs on with the civil service, they have to sign some document pertaining to the OSA and is given a copy of a list of violations which will fall under the purview of OSA.
Dunno whether The FM said he didnt know it was a secret, havent tell the public means its a secret *duh*
The other 4 people said, the FM gimme leber say its a secret, so all claimed they were unaware and that the govt’s OSA is so undefined that anything can be considered a secret when deemed necessary. Like say some MP’s bra size.
The chaps from the BT went on to publish the 4.6-4.8% estimated figure in June way before Big Brother’s official report in August.
The current FM was then the Director of MAS. This was reported in the NY Times. Since I was in sec sch then, I cant remember reading abt it in the local papers.
The current FM, who has like 3 degrees, one from LSE, Cambridge and Harvard cant tell what is official, what is secret and what you cant share with reporters.
The current FM was found guilty, fined $1,500 and a decade later holds a dual portfolio of education and finance, now is the FM.
And here I was under the impression that if you are convicted of a crime in Sg, you cant apply to work in the civil service, or is it that the FM is doing voluntary work and is not being paid, so the govt didnt take into consideration his criminal history. People like him end up in political positions as they have decided to take it up the ass from the current political action party. the party gets elected as a whole. they cant say, okay we are in power, but i want someone from the opposition having the educational portfolio, cos they assume since its the opp, they are GUARANTEED to screw up the job. not cos they are working for the people. no, cos their views are not in line with the BIG brother.

]]> By: Harry http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-80102 Harry Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:30:46 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-80102 Temasek used to be a prime and prestigeous name. Now the mention of Temasek invoke anger, disgust and worst cynical laughter. That just show how much damage the management has done to Temasek. To still consider Temasek to be doing well is the utmost insult on the senses of Singaporeans. Temasek used to be a prime and prestigeous name. Now the mention of Temasek invoke anger, disgust and worst cynical laughter. That just show how much damage the management has done to Temasek. To still consider Temasek to be doing well is the utmost insult on the senses of Singaporeans.

]]> By: toiletmatter http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-80031 toiletmatter Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:11:06 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-80031 the word temasek is now a jinx word in my dictionary, anything to do with it is bad luck the word temasek is now a jinx word in my dictionary, anything to do with it is bad luck

]]> By: borderless http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79929 borderless Mon, 08 Jun 2009 06:31:57 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79929 Ordinary Singaporeans must feel powerless - utterly powerless in the face of a huge and overwhelmingly powerful state apparatus. It's like an individual trying to stop a hurricane. The who hold the power and authority act with absolute impunity. I can understand why Singaporeans feel so trapped that the only outlet is act deaf and blind. There is simply no light at the end of the tunnel, at least not yet. But there are more powerful establishments that the S'pore govt (amongst others)is at the mercy of - the world financial institutions and military complexes. They forrm the 'invisible' govt that controls the world and they control the main mass media outlet that controls the majority of the hearts and minds of the people of this world. YES, the one world government is already in existence. Either you with thme or you are against them. Ordinary Singaporeans must feel powerless – utterly powerless in the face of a huge and overwhelmingly powerful state apparatus. It’s like an individual trying to stop a hurricane. The who hold the power and authority act with absolute impunity. I can understand why Singaporeans feel so trapped that the only outlet is act deaf and blind. There is simply no light at the end of the tunnel, at least not yet.

But there are more powerful establishments that the S’pore govt (amongst others)is at the mercy of – the world financial institutions and military complexes. They forrm the ‘invisible’ govt that controls the world and they control the main mass media outlet that controls the majority of the hearts and minds of the people of this world. YES, the one world government is already in existence. Either you with thme or you are against them.

]]> By: SZ http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79914 SZ Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:04:36 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79914 Hi Harry 146) to help you add on and To 139) two things, people will be unhappy either way there are loses, but trying to hide it or cover up only makes it worse...let me ask you, with all due respect, if you have some illness, will you want your doctor to tell you or do you want him to lie to keep you happy? capish? "If that is what you want then, you should argue that each individual, not the government, should be responsible for his pension planning." Ain't it ironic, that 20% of your own CPF contribution plus employer's contribution is been held up for your own "future" pension....and how will the money who own this money but has no way to assess it and knows its gain/lost be responsible for his pension planning? next thing we will be hearing is, plan those pension with the other 80% of the money you are taking home....with those people little realizing that there is nothing much left from that 80% due to living and housing expenses. Hi Harry 146) to help you add on
and To 139) two things,

people will be unhappy either way there are loses, but trying to hide it or cover up only makes it worse…let me ask you, with all due respect, if you have some illness, will you want your doctor to tell you or do you want him to lie to keep you happy? capish?

“If that is what you want then, you should argue that each individual, not the government, should be responsible for his pension planning.”

Ain’t it ironic, that 20% of your own CPF contribution plus employer’s contribution is been held up for your own “future” pension….and how will the money who own this money but has no way to assess it and knows its gain/lost be responsible for his pension planning?

next thing we will be hearing is, plan those pension with the other 80% of the money you are taking home….with those people little realizing that there is nothing much left from that 80% due to living and housing expenses.

]]> By: Harry http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79902 Harry Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:19:59 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79902 To 139) two things, 1. If the fund u invested in starts to give huge negative return, what will u do ? 2.If your fund don't tell u their performance, how will u know whether they are making money of not? Will u invest in a fund which did not update u regularly and truthfully on their performances ? To 139) two things,

1. If the fund u invested in starts to give huge negative return, what will u do ?

2.If your fund don’t tell u their performance, how will u know whether they are making money of not? Will u invest in a fund which did not update u regularly and truthfully on their performances ?

]]> By: tiredsingaporean http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79895 tiredsingaporean Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:41:35 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79895 134) Harry on June 7th, 2009 11.13 am to 132) everyone happy system, why in the first place do we have a government ? "govenments in a demoncratic system are elected by the people for the people. they are supposed to work for the benefits of their citizens. is that the case in singapore ? " The big question is:- are we a democratic country with a democratic system in the first place? 134) Harry on June 7th, 2009 11.13 am to 132) everyone happy system,

why in the first place do we have a government ?
“govenments in a demoncratic system are elected by the people for the people. they are supposed to work for the benefits of their citizens. is that the case in singapore ? ”

The big question is:- are we a democratic country with a democratic system in the first place?

]]> By: Think before you tok http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79886 Think before you tok Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:39:04 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79886 correction "why are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover." HOW are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover correction
“why are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover.”

HOW are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover

]]> By: Think before you tok http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79885 Think before you tok Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:38:12 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79885 "Lost is lost. But as whole they have scored more goals than letting in goals. Next time may not be so lucky!" How about the idea on privatisation of profit and socialization of costs. This is not a closed system within a small group where benefits and COSTS are absorbed fully only among themselves. Where serious blunders have been morphed into a more subdued scoring of goals, why are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover. “Lost is lost. But as whole they have scored more goals than letting in goals. Next time may not be so lucky!”

How about the idea on privatisation of profit and socialization of costs. This is not a closed system within a small group where benefits and COSTS are absorbed fully only among themselves. Where serious blunders have been morphed into a more subdued scoring of goals, why are things going to be improved with views not to enlighten but to provide intellectual cover.

]]> By: borderless http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79850 borderless Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:32:28 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79850 Quotable quotes ... just food for thought. "The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one," Hitler said. "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed." - Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s Propaganda Minister Quotable quotes … just food for thought.

“The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one,” Hitler said.

“The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.” – Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s Propaganda Minister

]]> By: two things http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79835 two things Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:20:20 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79835 #127 Harry, 1. I'm not discriminating against low-income people. The point is when you buy a unit trusts investment, you look at how much your investment gain or loss, not how many billions the fund is gaining or losing. You have to measure the performance of the whole portfolio, and not pick at specific investment decision. No fund is able to guarantee all its specific investments will gain. 2. The second thing is don't confuse fund performance (point 1) with transparency. Will you be happy if investment transactions are totally transparent but yet making a loss? Instead of transparency, is having an influence over investments what you want? If that is what you want then, you should argue that each individual, not the government, should be responsible for his pension planning. #127 Harry,

1. I’m not discriminating against low-income people. The point is when you buy a unit trusts investment, you look at how much your investment gain or loss, not how many billions the fund is gaining or losing. You have to measure the performance of the whole portfolio, and not pick at specific investment decision. No fund is able to guarantee all its specific investments will gain.

2. The second thing is don’t confuse fund performance (point 1) with transparency. Will you be happy if investment transactions are totally transparent but yet making a loss? Instead of transparency, is having an influence over investments what you want? If that is what you want then, you should argue that each individual, not the government, should be responsible for his pension planning.

]]> By: Thinktok http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79720 Thinktok Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:50:59 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79720 Harry, I agree with your observations para 137. I like you wished that our Govt can release some, a small bit of it to benefit the people. How and in which area I do not know. For example the Arts in Singapore. They have Telok Kurau Studios and FAS in Jalan Eunos. They are struggling and I do not think it is actively promoting arts in Singapore. Surely a grant can be given to them to build them a more permanent facilities in a more permanent Location, instead of giving them short leases. Spending billions on Art Museums and Durian do not directlty benefit the majority of Singaporeans, maybe for TOURISM and foreign talent. High pay was due to benchmarking to commercial renumerations. Always choosing the top winners is debatable. Even Tiger Wood has his bad days. Our CEOs pay are pegged to American and European CEOs which is now quite debatable, as they managed to bankrupt their companies like GM, Country Wide, Freddie Mac, RBS etc etc. Lost is lost. But as whole they have scored more goals than letting in goals. Next time may not be so lucky! Harry,

I agree with your observations para 137. I like you wished that our Govt can release some, a small bit of it to benefit the people. How and in which area I do not know. For example the Arts in Singapore. They have Telok Kurau Studios and FAS in Jalan Eunos. They are struggling and I do not think it is actively promoting arts in Singapore. Surely a grant can be given to them to build them a more permanent facilities in a more permanent Location, instead of giving them short leases. Spending billions on Art Museums and Durian do not directlty benefit the majority of Singaporeans, maybe for TOURISM and foreign talent.

High pay was due to benchmarking to commercial renumerations. Always choosing the top winners is debatable. Even Tiger Wood has his bad days. Our CEOs pay are pegged to American and European CEOs which is now quite debatable, as they managed to bankrupt their companies like GM, Country Wide, Freddie Mac, RBS etc etc.

Lost is lost. But as whole they have scored more goals than letting in goals. Next time may not be so lucky!

]]> By: Harry http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79717 Harry Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:29:39 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79717 To 135) thinktok, 1.Did the average Singaporeans benefitted from all the hundreds of US$billions being stashed away ? What is the use of keeping so much money for some imaginery future problems when at present average Singaporeans are struggling. In Australia even though the government has to borrow, they are still prepared to dish out $90 billions to help their citizens in this difficult times. In Singapore even with a few hundred US$billions, the government will rather let Singaporeans suffer than to take some of the reserves to give to them. 2.The huge reserves come about because the government has been very stingy with Singaporeans. They are putting an unnecessary large amount of revenue away when they should be spending it for the benefit of the current generation. Why are they paying Singaporeans such low interest rate on their CPF balances when the same money were used by the government to earn higher returns?The risks they take are still risks to be bear by Singaporeans. 3. The present PAP government is so inferior compare to the PAP government of the 70's and 80's. Those PAP old guards don't get $million pay and yet they really uplifted the quality of lives of Singaporean. The current PAP regime is letting in too many goals and Singapore is losing. Singapore is the first to enter a recession and our recession is the deepest in the world. While the Abu Dhabian made $billions from their investment in Barclays, Temasek lost $billion. Something must be very wrong if u r happy with their performances. To 135) thinktok,
1.Did the average Singaporeans benefitted from all the hundreds of US$billions being stashed away ? What is the use of keeping so much money for some imaginery future problems when at present average Singaporeans are struggling. In Australia even though the government has to borrow, they are still prepared to dish out $90 billions to help their citizens in this difficult times. In Singapore even with a few hundred US$billions, the government will rather let Singaporeans suffer than to take some of the reserves to give to them.
2.The huge reserves come about because the government has been very stingy with Singaporeans. They are putting an unnecessary large amount of revenue away when they should be spending it for the benefit of the current generation. Why are they paying Singaporeans such low interest rate on their CPF balances when the same money were used by the government to earn higher returns?The risks they take are still risks to be bear by Singaporeans.
3. The present PAP government is so inferior compare to the PAP government of the 70’s and 80’s. Those PAP old guards don’t get $million pay and yet they really uplifted the quality of lives of Singaporean. The current PAP regime is letting in too many goals and Singapore is losing. Singapore is the first to enter a recession and our recession is the deepest in the world. While the Abu Dhabian made $billions from their investment in Barclays, Temasek lost $billion. Something must be very wrong if u r happy with their performances.

]]> By: SZ http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79693 SZ Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:10:50 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79693 137) Thinktok Yes, a good team will be given allowance for letting in goals....however you seems to have either A) Forgotten or B) downplay it, that these people had portrays themselves as beyond a good team, they are in fact an extraordinary team ....and for such they should be given extraordinary pay and benefits....and of curse the outcome is expected, we will expect unrealistic extraordinary results... so in short, don't wear a hat that's bigger then your head...and this is the outcome of them trying to do it... and against Mr Thinktok, you are another one who use bad performers to bring out singapore in a better light, which is a typical contrast trick....how about you rephrase your statement using the better performers? the outcome will seem so different, and not so bright for TH 137) Thinktok

Yes, a good team will be given allowance for letting in goals….however you seems to have either A) Forgotten or B) downplay it, that these people had portrays themselves as beyond a good team, they are in fact an extraordinary team ….and for such they should be given extraordinary pay and benefits….and of curse the outcome is expected, we will expect unrealistic extraordinary results…

so in short, don’t wear a hat that’s bigger then your head…and this is the outcome of them trying to do it…

and against Mr Thinktok, you are another one who use bad performers to bring out singapore in a better light, which is a typical contrast trick….how about you rephrase your statement using the better performers? the outcome will seem so different, and not so bright for TH

]]> By: Thinktok http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79686 Thinktok Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:37:22 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79686 Harry, A good team can still let in a few goals. So when Temasek make money you are happy and loose money you are not. We all should be happy because Tharman had reported that we made money despite the recent realised losses. So be it, ask yourself who gave you this happy problem to quarrel and bitch about our reserves. America the great demorcracy is running deficits year after year. Iceland is bankrupt! Singapore is in a happy situation. Maybe we should get Bernie Madoff to take care of our reserves. Harry,

A good team can still let in a few goals. So when Temasek make money you are happy and loose money you are not. We all should be happy because Tharman had reported that we made money despite the recent realised losses.

So be it, ask yourself who gave you this happy problem to quarrel and bitch about our reserves. America the great demorcracy is running deficits year after year. Iceland is bankrupt! Singapore is in a happy situation.

Maybe we should get Bernie Madoff to take care of our reserves.

]]> By: Harry http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79663 Harry Sun, 07 Jun 2009 03:13:34 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79663 to 132) everyone happy system, why in the first place do we have a government ? govenments in a demoncratic system are elected by the people for the people. they are supposed to work for the benefits of their citizens. is that the case in singapore ? to 132) everyone happy system,

why in the first place do we have a government ?
govenments in a demoncratic system are elected by the people for the people. they are supposed to work for the benefits of their citizens. is that the case in singapore ?

]]> By: aiyoyo http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79655 aiyoyo Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:19:57 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79655 aiyoyo reset the game la, (everyone take back their own $) then restart the game again, make it simple ma. (like monopoly game ma) oh now remember - MONOPOLY! aiyoyo aiyoyo

reset the game la, (everyone take back their own $)

then restart the game again,

make it simple ma. (like monopoly game ma)

oh now remember – MONOPOLY!

aiyoyo

]]> By: everyone happy system http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79618 everyone happy system Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:56:03 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79618 how about this system: make cpf optional. govt don't need to invest the money of people, and people can invest in the way they like. everyone happy. to take a step further: abolish all personal income taxes and privatise all public services (housing, education, health care, transportation etc). govt don't need to be responsible, and people can also pick what they like. everyone happy. how about this system: make cpf optional. govt don’t need to invest the money of people, and people can invest in the way they like. everyone happy.

to take a step further: abolish all personal income taxes and privatise all public services (housing, education, health care, transportation etc). govt don’t need to be responsible, and people can also pick what they like. everyone happy.

]]> By: boons http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/temasek-losses-%e2%80%93-enough-is-enough/comment-page-3/#comment-79608 boons Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:16:14 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=10539#comment-79608 In the world of internet, accountability and transparency can be question using information and news. The government can continue to hide, but the citizens will find out sooner or later. The BIG question is, do we dare to vote them out? We are the one who hand them the power, power corrupts mind. Is the public daring enough to take the power back? We are still a democratic country, we can still vote out the government but how many of us dare to do so? We can only be a arm-chair critic unless u show your displeasure in the next election! In the world of internet, accountability and transparency can be question using information and news. The government can continue to hide, but the citizens will find out sooner or later. The BIG question is, do we dare to vote them out? We are the one who hand them the power, power corrupts mind. Is the public daring enough to take the power back? We are still a democratic country, we can still vote out the government but how many of us dare to do so? We can only be a arm-chair critic unless u show your displeasure in the next election!

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