Vicki Yang
Vicki Yang gives a first-person account of her experience in getting tested for the H1N1 virus at Tan Tock Seng hospital.
I was at Butter Factory with some friends on June 17. None of us suspected anything amiss until the 22nd where, thanks to Twitter updates, a friend and I realized that at least 7 out of the 13 of us who had gone to Butter Factory that night had fallen ill.
While I was down with a cough, headache, and body aches, a few of my other friends told me that they were suffering from raspy throats, flu, and fever. Fear struck the heart of one of my sick friends when she discovered that we had possibly been among the same crowd as the 140th H1N1 case that very same Ladies Night at Butter Factory (and where the 96th, 117th, and 118th case had been before).
Cursing our possible fates in quarantine, we pondered our chances of contracting H1N1, and decided that a check-up would be the best course of action. None of us wanted to spread the possible infection to people at our workplaces and more importantly, to ailing members of our respective families. Two friends from that night out were already at TTSH getting tested. This was before the Pandemic Preparedness Clinics were established.
An ambulance took us from one end of Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH) to the carpark that had been cordoned off for possible H1N1 suspects to be tested. A male nurse demanded the reason for our arrival and asked if we were there to see the doctor. My confused friend replied with a statement that echoed her genuine sentiment, “I don’t know”. We had no idea how the proceedings of a screening were to take place.
Finally when I told him that the ambulance brought us to the testing area as we had requested for a H1N1 check-up, he growled angrily: “So you’re here for a check-up to see the doctor, then just say you’re here to see the doctor.”
He disappeared back into the testing area, leaving my companion and I slightly taken aback with his attitude.
The holding area looked like a detention class. Classroom tables and uncomfortable white plastic chairs (usually used in funerals and functions in community centre halls) were placed more than two arms’ length apart from each other. A small television with very bad reception sat on one end of the holding area, apparently to provide some form of entertainment for the 4 to 12 hours that H1N1 suspects had to wait, for the outcome of their test results. I sat behind two of my friends who had come earlier, but mingling was apparently disallowed. Our communication was limited to making exaggerated physical gestures across the distances between us, and via text messages on our cell phones.
All H1N1 suspects are supposed to have their blood samples, two swabs of mucus and fluids taken from them to be tested, as well as X-rays. After an hour and a half of waiting, none of my samples had been taken. Another ninety minutes passed before a nurse came to ask me and my friends some health-related questions. For some inexplicable reasons, the nurse insisted that my friend and I were pregnant, despite our assurances that we were not.
“It’s for the X-ray. We have to know whether you’re pregnant,” the nurse said.
“Yes okay, but no I’m not pregnant,” I said.
“Do you want to take a urine test, to make sure?”
“No, it’s okay. I’m pretty sure I’m not pregnant,” I replied, rather amused at the prospect of sudden pregnancy.
My friend was more forthcoming with her replies. “I can’t be pregnant,” she said to the concerned and well-intentioned nurse, “I’m a virgin”.
Shortly later we were called in separately into the testing area for our X-rays to be taken. Half an hour after we returned to our seats, the same determined nurse came along with a small empty container packaged in a plastic bag labelled “Biohazard”.
“I think you better take the urine test to make sure,” she said.
I realized that the delay in the test was inevitable from the seeming lack of communication between the medical staff there. Our X-rays had already been taken, and hence there was no need for the urine test. Yet, the nurse – commendable for her insistent effort – did not know that. This lack of information among the staff regarding which tests each of the patients had or had not gone through, was glaring when it came to the issue of my delayed blood test.
After four hours had passed from the time of my entrance, I informed a nurse that my blood sample was yet to be taken despite an initial effort to do so. The surly male nurse earlier had stopped by to poke around – but failed to take a blood sample thanks to fine veins. He did however promise that “someone else” would come by to do it later. However, after affirming that I had had my swab tests, she proceeded to dismiss the necessity of the blood test. I was still skeptical, citing that the others present at the holding area had had theirs taken, but she assured me the accuracy of her answer. When I asked the same question to a doctor when I finally saw him, the overwhelming priority of the swab tests was once again indicated, and the event of taking a blood sample was dismissed. Yet, at the end of 7 hours of waiting, another nurse informed me that a blood test was necessary, to ensure that I did not have other ailments such as dengue.
I appreciated the “Nestle-like” 3-in-1 strategy in testing for the virus, but I would have appreciated it much more had I not been misinformed and falsely assured earlier. My former suspicious probing had not motivated the medical staff in question to check the proper proceedings of the check-up, leading to another hour’s wait for the outcome of a blood test.
When asked about the misinformation and the seeming lack of consistency in the medical proceedings among the staff, the nurse’s answer was, “I’m really sorry, but I don’t know what they told you or what happened earlier. I only started work at 9 pm”. It was a fair answer and I really could not blame the nurse, but I wondered at the proclaimed high level of preparedness of our medical staff in face of a pandemic announced by the authorities and the media, especially with The New Paper on Saturday 30 May 2009 proclaiming our preparedness as “The Khaw Strategy”, stating that “the ground was well prepared”.
Was there not a methodical system of testing being adhered to? When even the communication between staff and patients, or amongst the staff themselves, did not seem to hold up very strongly, I could not help but discern a slightly messy randomness in the delegation of duties to members of the staff on the job.
My companions were understandably bewildered by the amount of effort they had to take in trying to get the attention of any member of the medical staff. When one of my friends felt giddy after the blood test was taken, she was unable to get any help for a long while as the staff hurried around with no attention paid to the patients in the holding area.
Another patient seated in a wheelchair waved mournfully at passing nurses several times, indicating to his leg that seemed to be giving him a good amount of pain, but he was largely ignored. There was barely anyone attending to the already-ill patients sitting in the holding area. When nurses did pop by intermittently to pursue information from a patient, we were simply told to wait, in response to any of our questions regarding what all this waiting was leading to.
Any possible MOH statement assuring that our doctors were more than prepared would have been refuted, when a doctor’s questioning revealed the lack of updates TTSH was providing its staff during this pandemic.
“So you went to the Butter Factory on the 17th, and there was… one case there.”
“No, there have been four cases so far,” I reminded him.
“Four cases?”
“Yes, four cases.”
“And what were you and your friends outside doing at the Butter Factory? Are you working there?”
“No, I don’t work there.”
“What brand of butter does this factory produce?”
I stared at him, utterly perplexed at the question and unable to react instantly, only managing to croak out a “What?” He asked again.
“It…. it doesn’t produce butter… It’s a club,” I stammered.
“Oh, it’s a club!” he exclaimed, as he scribbled away on some sheet of paper, enlightened.
That was the very moment where it became apparent that the doctors did not seem to know the situation on the ground. One would have expected that TTSH could at least update their medical team regularly on the new cases of H1N1, and some idea of the third infected cluster. Yet, it seemed that barely any updates trickled down to the medical team on the ground, which was supposedly very prepared to combat a pandemic.
Granted, it perhaps may not be fair to come down hard on the medical staff regarding their lack of knowledge of current situations especially when the third infected cluster (Butter Factory) was identified less than 24 hours prior to the time of my screening. In fact, sitting in the testing area, we heard the doctors discussing and checking cases with each other and that possible infected Butter Factory goers were not even supposed to be at TTSH, but at the Communicable Diseases Centre (CDC) situated on the next street! Yet the ambulance had unwittingly brought us from one end of TTSH to another.
What about the management of TTSH then? Was it not necessary to keep abreast of current situations and update the medical team on the ground? What did the lack of coordination among the staff, and lack of information reflect upon Singapore’s readiness to combat H1N1? Perhaps my experience was an exception in the larger scheme of H1N1 testing so far. “The Khaw Strategy” was a myth for the 9 hours I was at TTSH. Yet, the long-asserted conviction that the ground is well-prepared, seems to have fallen through that night.
Read also: The minister who got S’pore prepared – The New Paper.
And also: Gerald Giam’s account of his experience at the CDC.
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hi Angelina,
you think all those ah peks & ah mahs bond so well with their children & grandchildren meh.
eh, who’s job is it to disseminate the info? those with the info must be proactive lah, S’pore infrastructure so advanced can do with a more efficient way of spreading news. dun taichi that responsibility & say “its now up to individual aka social reponsibility”…
if so, then its like “kampong strategy” liao, not world class anymore…
the info must be able to travel faster than H1N1 (person-person) right? if H1N1 spread faster than our healthcare providers can inform the public, then really they should change vocation liao… & better go E2i sign up for retraining!!
^.^
OK, so are you saying the internet is useless in SG context because ah peks & ah sohs have no access? If the cyber superhighway for disseminating info is not good enough, its finished! China & India have sprinted pass us and we are still crawling. Don’t even compare to US or Europe.
84) ah soh
Apologies for responding almost seventy posts later.
///if any night entertainment organization gives free entries to ah sohs(over fifty yr old), I will also want to patronize. ////
there are
///Btw, Sir, You can help to increase the readership in TOC, tell your drinking khakis(fraternity), the kopi soh, kopi muays and others about this site. The more(readers/posters) the merrier, and may be we can have more companies.///
Yes. and with wireless@SG at all the koptiams, all of them will be feverishly typing to post at TOC with their laptops while their kopi-O to go cold.
@doctorwho
Hospitals spend millions in IT but still won’t have a fully automated system. It is just not possible. Even with the best systems, a human factor must be involved, and its just much more difficult for a hospital to buy equipment, as compared to a normal business due to various highly varied concerns.
Each system in itself might be an improvement, but might also result in additional workload. A recent case in point would be the electronic prescription system. It reduces errors, but no doubt causes more pain for doctors who now have to login and do data entry when it wasn’t necessary in the past. So which is more efficient? Different measurement results in different value.
Even if we measure it in payment terms, it will post another challenge. What about families who want to just get out of the hospital ASAP? Do you make them pay first before they can leave? Procedures and technology can only resolve some issues, but unfortunately, not all issues.
@Angelina
Easier then it sounds. Procedures need to be learnt, need to be trained, need to be practised. No procedure, no matter how perfect, will work 100%, when people are getting used to them.
In the context of H1N1 and TTSH, people arn’t able to get used to it at all. Not when its changing at a daily basis due to the changing nature of the flu pandemic. Give the guys at TTSH a break. These poor souls are working their ass off.
@Angelia #153
Do you read every website everyday? Do visit http://www.flu.gov.sg everyday? Or every second for that matter?
Do you know how many person died in Iran over the past 2 weeks?? Do you know how many people are dying this very minute in USA? Do you know how many people are queueing up at TTSH at this very moment?
I don’t believe you can answer yes to every question. And unless you do, don’t have the expectation that news can be spread to every tom dick and harry. There will be people who misses out, one way or another.
hi Angelina,
////If the cyber superhighway for disseminating info is not good enough, its finished!////
the internet may be commonplace now, but that does not mean its a catch-all media where everyone (i really mena everyone) is plugged in & logged on daily.
looks like Inix has beaten me to the post.
////There will be people who misses out, one way or another.////
this is a good case study on how critical info is disseminated. luckly H1N1 fatality rate is low, this goes to show there are serious flaws in the system. this is not the case of social responsibility gone out of the window loh…
Wow! How did we end up discussing ‘Information Dissemination’ in a topic about ‘Khaw’s Healthcare strategy’?
Based on the arguments between Angelina and the others, one can deduce that there are two different lines of arguments here, and both are valid enough to take a closer look at.
Angelina questions our super-high internet connectivity and why it is not able to do the job it is supposed to do, while others like mice is nice and inix ponders over whether the people handling the job are qualified enough.
It is true that with better internet connectivity, one would expect better information management and dissemination. However, this is dependent upon the people who are responsible for data collection.
From my own experience and from what I see around me in my workplace, I would agree more with inix and mice-is-nice. We can have the best systems, we can have the best link-ups and connectivity, but the data that the system works on, relies very much on who sits behind it providing all the required data. And these data have to come from those who work directly with infected patients – the doctors and nurses. And the doctors and nurses are so busy fighting the battle at the frontline, how are they to sit down and provide the data – which may change from one minute to another?
In the case of H1N1, even expert opinions on its infectious intensity and whether it will mutate to a more lethal strain are divided. How then can anyone provide data that are not yet conclusive? It is like trying to catch water with your bare hands. You can’t. So instead of wasting time, resources and energy trying to draw up something in black and white over a virus that no one can clearly say for sure how mild or lethal it may be, or how it is going to evolve, isn’t it better to channel all these effort toward the battle at the frontlines?
There is the added danger of providing the public with information that change from one minute to another because the information may become irrelevant after they are published – causing more confusion then help.
If you ask me, I would rather sit on plastic white chairs, for hours if needed, to make sure that I do not have the virus (especially when I know I have been exposed to it). I can then sleep peacefully each night, knowing that my family and friends are safe from any transmission from me.
159) gemami
The Fog of War may describe the current H1N1 situation TTSH and related healthcare orgs are in.
in the early kampong days
it was a picnic for the whole family when there was a typhoid/tb epidemic
there was no chairs no tents
just stand in line to be jabbed
than agin
durin the kampond days
there was no $85 min charges as well
not even $0.85cents…….
but
all in all
typhoid/tb epidemic was CONTAINED
that is the sole purpose!
~period~
161) whenmatasworeshorts
also standing in line with pails in hand
to collect a day’s supply of water
during the super dry seasons when we were deprived of rain for weeks
reservoir level worryingly low
161) whenmatasworeshorts
also those days, most have no money to splurt at ButterFactory lah
and even less opportunity to be educated (paid by the state) sufficiently to be literate enough to be posting on the internet to complain about lousy TTSH service after a good time at ButterFactory.
hi Gemami,
true, the pace of the spread makes little sense to put too much effort on being constantly up-to-date. besides, i think (i dun really have indepth knowledge) healthcare staff quite understaffed, therefore the lapse is understandable.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
hi KopitiamApek,
eh, maybe the fog of war is just miscommunication? well, the same with real wars in the present day.
eh, times have changed, so have expectations. if we are still satisfied with things being done a few decades ago, then is sad that no progress has been made. people who go ButterFactory do go there to have a good time, i can’t say the same about people going to TTSH for a good time. lol….
apples & oranges?
164) mice is nice
Agree. times have changed, so have expectations.
but higher expectation must comes with higher cost
not being satisfied with things being done a few decades ago, and demanding progress, one must correspondingly expect to pay more for the better services.
As much as we want our own pay to rise, so do the people employed to carry out the service and that will translate into higher cost which the end user must be prepared to pay. It is either that, or it get paid indirectly by taxpayers, regardless if the are users of that service.
Decades ago, we are content with crummy boneshaker buses, much like what we see on TV in some 3rd world countries with passengers precariously hanging at the doors, and they come like once a week (joking) and the bus fare was max 50 cents. Now we have fully aircon buses, if they arrive 10 minutes late, the driver gets a warning if there is a complain, all these cannot come without a higher cost.
Similarly the hospitals of time gone by are places you will not want to stay if you don’t have to. The C class wards can have 60 beds in a huge hall, no screens , no phone, no call button, no TV, no nothing. A sick person can yell all day for the nurse to come to his aid, and the poor guys in the surrounding beds have to endure his yell, all that for a grand sum of $4 per day. A plastic chair was a luxury. The visitors have no chairs.
The better things we have now are possible because the past generations worked to make what we have today. To sustain it and make it even better will be what the present generation should works towards. We all have the right to higher expecation. But when some start thinking that it is a birth right just because they are born at a better time , then that it is really when the progress stops.
hi KopitiamApek,
our quality of healthcare correspond to the price? 1 wonder where the bulk of the money went to. just because frontline staff put in more effort to deliver quality service does not mean their pay go up in tendom. frontline staffs’ salary has been hovering where it was years back, with little or no increase. so your point where 1 is to pay more for better service is flawed.
either way, in S’pore many things are way overpriced, the link between cost vs quality in S’pore’s context is a weak 1.
not everything is open to market forces, our public transport is certainly 1 of them. anyway let’s not venture about public transport issues here.
I find it annoyingly hypocritical when people are at one point bitching about their supposedly low pay while asking for more, and at the other point, bitching about how the rest of the Singapore has somehow became more expensive to be in tandem.
166) mice is nice
///quality of healthcare correspond to the price?///
my point is that when service level and infrastructure improves, there must be a correspodning increase in price
whether the current charges correspond to the cost of providing the current service level, I am not position to comment on this , as I do not have privy to the info
/// 1 wonder where the bulk of the money went to. ////
I am not position to comment on this too, as I do not have privy to the info
166) mice is nice
///not everything is open to market forces, our public transport is certainly 1 of them. anyway let’s not venture about public transport issues here.///
venture little bit lah
the train operators are running it to be commercially viable
whether they are making tons of profit I am not too sure
but this is certain, the cost of buiding the MRT infrastructure, in billions to date, is not borned by the operators. The gahmen built it and handed it over to the operators at no cost
otherwise we should be paying a lot more to use the trains
166) mice is nice
///staffs’ salary has been hovering where it was years back, with little or no increase. so your point where 1 is to pay more for better service is flawed.///
there must be some increase lah
and secondly, even if these poor healthcare sector staffs really have been so sway to have no pay rise for years, and have not quit in protest yet, the improved service level could also come from having more staff, thus also translating to higher cost.
Hi KopitiamApek,
points in post #168, on July 4th, 2009 9.02 pm
////my point is that when service level and infrastructure improves, there must be a correspodning increase in price////
point taken, but its an assumption.
////whether the current charges correspond to the cost of providing the current service level, I am not position to comment on this , as I do not have privy to the info////
then why you assume the above huh?
////I am not position to comment on this too, as I do not have privy to the info////
no problem, not everytime we will have all info on our fingertips.
post #169, on July 4th, 2009 9.08 pm
strange, now you change tact. comparing bus services decades ago & the current. things have changed, like the way its run in the past vs now. here’s your earlier words.
////Decades ago, we are content with crummy boneshaker buses, much like what we see on TV in some 3rd world countries with passengers precariously hanging at the doors, and they come like once a week (joking) and the bus fare was max 50 cents. Now we have fully aircon buses, if they arrive 10 minutes late, the driver gets a warning if there is a complain, all these cannot come without a higher cost.////
besides, the way bus services is run & how hospitals are run is very different. many take bus everyday, but not all go hospital everyday.
hi KopitiamApek,
post #170 on July 4th, 2009 9.15 pm
////there must be some increase lah////
you guessing only is it?
////and secondly, even if these poor healthcare sector staffs really have been so sway to have no pay rise for years, and have not quit in protest yet, the improved service level could also come from having more staff, thus also translating to higher cost.////
eh, you again guessing that there is an improvement in service?
there may be more staff now, but there also may be more patients, heavier workloads, & the increasing complexity of health threats in the form of new & novel bugs. as for higher costs, let’s not forget those space-age medical equipement can easily cost more than $***k.
171) mice is nice
to clarify where I am coming from…
when service improves, there must be a corresponding cost increase. I think it would be fair to say that, correct? that is not an assumption,
but wether the quantum of increase in cost matches the increase in service qualiity is what I cannot ascertain.
on the bus example, no change of tack mah? same line of thought as healthcare example.
I do not quite get your point on this leh “besides, the way bus services is run & how hospitals are run is very different. many take bus everyday, but not all go hospital everyday.”
167) inix
One needs to appreciate the interdependance of labour cost and cost of services and goods. If we want a higher pay, the services and goods in the sector we are in will have to cost more. In order to keep cost down, local labour gets replaced by imported labour. So thus the issue of foreign workers, local pay, and cost of everything are all in a interdependant web.
But of course, the magic solution here in TOC is Temasek’s lost biilions and million dollar minister pay.
2 wrong don’t make one right.
hi KopitiamApek,
ah, you have a point but the reality is not like what you have said- to justify the increase in price.
healthcare & public transport have very different target “customers”, so i dunno why you bring up such a comparision. the only similiarity is that both cater to society’s need, but in very different ways.
dunno how to expain in depth, but if you still dun understand then i think other posters could chip in to explain to you.
please do. I am here to learn
@mice is nice
Putting Public Transport aside, I think Healthcare is a very industry to regulate. The fundamental problem IS money. Money talks and unfortunately, the healthcare / pharma industry is dominated by money and the Govt don’t have it easy trying to manage this.
1: Healthcare is expensive – Why is it expensive? Well, the following reasons apply
Labour – Nurses today are paid significantly higher as compared to yesteryears. Not to mention doctors / specialists
Medicine – Medicine is also getting to be increasingly expensive. The rich country get charged more syndrome unfortunately also applies to us. It gets extra annoying when we see that Thailand and Malaysia drugs are often 50 – 60% cheaper then SG.
Equipment – Again, better healthcare = better healthcare equipment. All the MRI, CT scan machines all need money.
Productivity Enhancements – Hospitals are consistently upgrading their hardware trying to improve on their service. SMS updates (so that you don’t wait there like a fool), computer prescription, drug delivery all are aimed at providing better service. But they come at a cost, and it isn’t small.
Lack of Doctors – People keep bitching about the fact that we can easily sidestep the issue by increasing the number of places for Doctors in NUS / whatever. The issue isn’t this simple. If its about money, we can pump, but Medicine can kill if applied wrongly, and I am not comfortable if it aint the best who become Doctor.
Most certainly of all, I don’t want any tom dick / harry to become a doctor.
The next issues that faces KBW is the private vs public hospital issue. There are challenges to both ends fundamentally. If Singapore do what Malaysia do, go free medical on Public Hospital, would it create a Public is crap, Private is better situation?
This is exactly what is happening in Malaysia where the Govt Hospitals are unable to compete with the Private Hospitals due to the huge brain drain by the private hospital.
Next, how about the problem of having to look at all frivolous cases. Already the A&E is overloaded, by going free healthcare, won’t we result in a much heavier load for the hospitals? These are very practical problems which countries like AU are facing today and still have no answer for.
I personally think that what can be done, is the following;
1: Expanding the Private Medishield Scheme. Make it compulsory and all kids must (and the law must mandate that all babies can be) insured from birth and not 30 days after
2: Cover all in-patient & out-patient treatment via this insurance, and double healthcare budget to fund this portion. Its currently around 3% of GDP, and we can have it up to 5% of GDP.
3: Cover all pre-existing issues for Singaporeans, and up all Medishield related Medical Insurance Premiums 50 – 100% to around $300PA under 40 years old, and $500PA under 50 years old.
4: Setup a Government Fund for Singaporeans (PRs not involved) where Singaporeans will be able to apply for Private Medishield Insurance paid for by the Government for the needy.
5: This can be afforded by a corresponding increase of GST to 10% as a corresponding increase in income tax wouldn’t get the same results. With this proposal, I suspect that we will be able to get a better healthcare system as no one will be denied healthcare / made bankrupt due to healthcare, but the trade off is to pay slightly higher taxes.
176) inix on
Very well written and accurate observation of the health care situation.
///1: Expanding the Private Medishield Scheme. Make it compulsory and all kids must (and the law must mandate that all babies can be) insured from birth and not 30 days after///
I stand corrected, but I do believe this is on the cards.
A&E overloaded is a problem for decades that seems to never go away,
if I may use this anology, it is just like building more roads, and this encourages more to use it and then, hello traffic jam!
Brain drain is also a long standing hard to solve issue.
Opening up the medical sector to foreign doctors will be worth exploring. The medical sector should not be so special that it is shielded from internatonal competition, and that will drive up the quality of doctors in SG, and keep the fees in check.
hi Inix,
i agree with what KopitiamApek,
you have put together a comprehensive list of reasons why healthcare costs are not cheap.
put to rest the case of why paying more does not mean service standards have gone up in tendom.
:)
178) mice is nice
///service standards have gone up in tendom.////
that part we can agree that is hard to measure
178) mice is nice
agree.
put to rest the case.
167) inix on July 4th, 2009 2.40 pm
“I find it annoyingly hypocritical when people are at one point bitching about their supposedly low pay while asking for more, and at the other point, bitching about how the rest of the Singapore has somehow became more expensive to be in tandem.”
Inix,
Are you saying medical fees will never be increased for higher profit gain? Is there an independent body making sure hospitals or medical service providers do not make profits or only make a limited profit? This applies to everything else like transport and HDB.
Please inform forumers if you know of any independent bodies keeping profit figures in check. Unless you can name the orgns doing this, you cannot make the above statement blaming people’s ‘hypocricy’. Pls bear this in mind whenever people whine that costs have all gone up and wish pay has gone up too.
inix
If you are really that ignorant, here is how businesses work:
Anything on top of costs = Profit
Costs include workers pay (the other big component is rental which of course the state owned businesses like HDB does not need to worry about)
Therefore in business oeprations, the lower the workers pay and the higher the price you can sell for your service or goods, the higher the profit. Pls get this in your head that it is not necessary the case that things are more expensive because of higher pay.
@Rafflesian
If you had came up with a better reply, I would probably have follow up with an extended reply like how I would commonly do in my previous replies to other posts. But with you, I will only say this.
If businesses is all about costs, then unfortunately, or fortunately I should say, you have no idea how business function. This might be something new to you, but nevertheless, learn this new phase. Value Creation is what business is all about.
Go back to school and learn some basic stuff before you call me ignorant. Until that, I’ll not be wasting time with your posts :)
mice is nice & inix:
“the internet may be commonplace now, but that does not mean its a catch-all media where everyone (i really mena everyone) is plugged in & logged on daily.”
- When the radio was first invented, we can also say, the radio may be commonplace now, but that does not mean……. It applies to newspapers, if people can’t be bothered to open it and read, it is no use.
You carry on thinking this way and you will get left behind. If I make a press release (assuming I have the power to do so, like Khaw), that places with major outbreaks are posted in the website, will YOU really not be bothered to plug in? If you can’t be bothered to plug in, then who is to blame?
inix:
As for procedures implementation, of course it is not as easy as we think but Khaw made a statement that Spore is READY which is what all the fuss is about in this article!
inix @184
You said “Value Creation is what business is all about.”
Really? Business is NOT about PROFIT?????????? LAUGH TOO MUCH NOW!
inix,
Pls, you must tell forumers which business school did you go to. Allow me the pleasure to repeat your statement:
“Value Creation is what business is ALL about.”
Still can’t stop laughing.
what can u ask for. We can have Malaysian, Indonesian, Indian as MP and Minister.
Have you ever come across Indonesia, Malaysia, India have Singaporean
as Minister?
Phew. We Singaporean are the minority.
Now, the Khaw even encourage Singaporean to live in Johor for retirement
yet he can have his pension in Singapore.
Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew. Phew.Phew. Phew. Phew.
@Rafflesian
Your stupidity is amazing! Let me make this simple for you. No value = No Sales = No profit. Cost is not everything. Value is. I’m amazed that you didn’t know that. Oh well :D
@Angelina
Its because I work in a cutting edge industry that I know these things happen. As for Singapore being ready, we all know its for preping the nation more then anything
hi Angelina,
eh, let’s not get too personal when you reply with words like,
////If you can’t be bothered to plug in, then who is to blame?////
if you are looking for someone to blame, look for those with bigger responsibilities, not the person on the street who have not been travelling- to “import” the bug.
anyway, from situation developing on a day-to-day basis, once the bug crossed into S’pore’s porous border, a relatively fast & stealthy spread is certain. with all the info available, yet companies & other organisations are slow to react & draw up contingency plans.
to think that it took quite a few days before we had the 1st local confirmed infection, who should we blame for giving a window of opportunity for the bug to spread? we were never ready the the true sense, many businesses had no contingency plans. what more of mixed signals telling us not to over-react?
as for,
////will YOU really not be bothered to plug in? If you can’t be bothered to plug in, then who is to blame?////
my reply is, this:
1) S’pore is humming away 24/7, in a densely populated & tiny country, the bug has the upper hand in speed & stealth in spreading.
2) there is a time lag;
2a) positively identifying the place/s of infection
2b) notifying the relevent authorities
2c) authorities disseminating the info to public
2d) contact tracing takes time, window of opportunity for spreading further
3) when a community level spread is possible contact tracing is like catching the wind with a net…
4) there is simply no foolproof way (that i know) to identify in real time the rate of the spread. is staying updated an effective way to keep the chances of infection down?
just because internet is a widely used medium for news, it’s not a catch-all. don’t you get it?
*faintz*
Hi mice is nice,
Don’t put words in my mouth, I did not say its a “catch-all” but if there is another popular mass medium (not necc for news), which most big nations in the world is using, why not use it? Thats all I am saying. Why have the MOST WIRED nation which according to you is of no significance?
Before you deviate any further, may I clarify that the issue on hand was that people (incl the doc) did not have a clue where the outbreak started in Spore, and the medical service providers (hospitals) did not seem to know what each other is supposed to do (procedure).
What I suspect is not about the effectiveness or not of the internet but more of not wanting anything printed in black & white. They are not sure of the info and not sure what they are doing, period.
Luckily this swine flu does not appear to be fatal, if it is deadly and there is press release that info is updated daily on the internet, (again I re-iterate, info of where major outbreaks are and what to do if you suspect you are infected) I can guarantee the website will be so congested, it crashes! I can guarantee you will not be the last reluctant visitor to the site.
hi Angelina,
////Don’t put words in my mouth, I did not say its a “catch-all”////
sorry if i did. but i was given the impression form you that being highly wired & plugged in S’poreans on the whole should be well informed.
dun ask me questions like
////Why have the MOST WIRED nation which according to you is of no significance?////
////the issue on hand was that people (incl the doc) did not have a clue where the outbreak started in Spore, and the medical service providers (hospitals) did not seem to know what each other is supposed to do (procedure).////
i am not the official channel or work in the healthcare or related industry to give an answer.
////What I suspect is not about the effectiveness or not of the internet but more of not wanting anything printed in black & white. They are not sure of the info and not sure what they are doing, period.////
this i totally agree!! no evidence, no accountability!! can just say “dunno, dunno, not aware…” & *siam*…. :/
189) inix on July 6th, 2009 11.49 pm
“Your stupidity is amazing! Let me make this simple for you. No value = No Sales = No profit. Cost is not everything. Value is. I’m amazed that you didn’t know that. Oh well”
You really sound like one of those high & mighty “top talented scholars” that the PAP recruited in recent years. Almost everything gets messed up because of SQUARE heads like you.
Are you saying all the restaurants which do not make profit have zero value? The private hospitals which do not make profit also have zero value. The electronic shop that do not make profit have zero value?
Are you saying businesses which make bigger profits have better value than those which make losses even if they are trading the same items with exactly the same quality service. Do price, promotion & location not feature in your idea of business? ONLY value of the product????
Is it completely impossible to you that your cutting edge prodcut or technology or service might end up a loss maker? If your cutting edge product, though highly valuable will cost too much to build or make in order to make a profit, will there be buyers prepared to pay for it? If it is not possible to mass produce, will the business make a profit?
I can see how or why SG is so way behind in many things with ‘clever’ people like you thinking so simply.
inix
If you can create a human robot to do household chores (which to me is of value) are you saying there WILL be sales, and guranteed PROFIT? What if you cannot mass produce it to cover your fixed costs (rental & wages)? What if it costs you hundreds of thousands to promote the new innovation?
Wish it is so simple like you think what business is ALL about. Bank investors won’t need to hire specialists in their jobs, just somebody to evaluate the value of the products or services!
For those reading this discussion, my point is that things are gettng more expensive can be due to costs other than wages, mainly rental, transport, utilities and most crucially, growing the profit. So if people wish for higher wages, they should NOT be blamed for complaining about the higher costs of things. This is simple common sense but “inix” argued that business is ALL about value creation!
And “inix” says my stupidity is amazing in #194! Unless “inix” has any intelligence at all, I won’t take his understanding of stupidity for granted.
hi Rafflesian,
post #196 on July 7th, 2009 7.20 pm
////my point is that things are gettng more expensive can be due to costs other than wages, mainly rental, transport, utilities and most crucially, growing the profit.////
spelt out logically, in local context.
its a pity Inix had to start the ball rolling with post #167on July 4th, 2009 2.40 pm.
did an about turn to redeem the situation in post #177 on July 5th, 2009 11.55 am.
let’s not getting at each others’ neck too often, refrain from flame baiting strangers online & try keep cool in this tiny RED DOTE called S’pore.
1 post entails a 4 post reply, and since you still don’t get the drift, I won’t be bothered to reply anyway.
@mice is nice
I still hold to my statement. I have absolute disdain for people who bitch about increase of prices when they want their own pay to be increased. To me, its like complaining about the Coffee Price increasing by 10c, and saying that the cofeeshops are making huge amount of money, while quietly smirking that pay rise that you got.
Fundamentally, COL is undoubtedly linked to standard of living (although they are not the same), and that as people gets more, they want more.
Next, I wasn’t doing an about-turn. I was just explaining my take on why healthcare is difficult to regulate, and expensive at the same time. I don’t like to bitch on things that are expensive. Its simply pointless.
inix
Does one has to agree with you to get the drift? Can’t one challenge your warped theory from one’s wealth of experience?
Why are you so fond of the word ‘BITCH’?? There is no need for this sort of language to impress your views on others.
hi Inix,
////I still hold to my statement. I have absolute disdain for people who bitch about increase of prices when they want their own pay to be increased. To me, its like complaining about the Coffee Price increasing by 10c, and saying that the cofeeshops are making huge amount of money, while quietly smirking that pay rise that you got.////
firstly, you do not know me, so how can you claim others’ pay did indeed rise? secondly, i will not be drawn into a flame war with you.
////Next, I wasn’t doing an about-turn. I was just explaining my take on why healthcare is difficult to regulate, and expensive at the same time. I don’t like to bitch on things that are expensive. Its simply pointless.////
alright, maybe i mistaken.
& yeah, i think i don’t get the drift.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
hi Rafflesian,
let’s ignore posters who lack etiquette. its unfortunate, but let’s not get too personal with people online, its not worth the effort & time.
thanks for speaking up for me. ;)