From the BBC:
The massacre of pro-democracy supporters by Chinese troops in Beijing on the 3-4 June 1989 marked the end of the largest political protest in communist China’s history.
James Miles – the BBC’s China correspondent at the time – spoke to the crowds in Tiananmen Square in the weeks before the violence. Here – using his and other archive material – we recall how events unfolded. (Click on picture below)
Video from NTDTV: Inside China – June 4th Tiananmen Square Massacre Part 1
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Oops. Sorry it was Socrates, not Plato who had to drink poison and die…
50) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)
For the outstandingly well known one, yes their legacy lives on beyond their death.
But for my less known one, it is as soon forgotten.
Erm… okay…
Deng Xiaopin was the one ordered the army to clash the protestors, so he was the butcher of Tiananmen massacre, this was what the West want you to believe. But he was also the one who told chinese people to forget about communist ideology and just go and get rich. Look at China day, he should be the great man who saved China. So, who was the real Deng? Now you understand when the Word people talks about Tiananmen Massacre/ Incident/ riot, they view differently and depend whether you are Westeners, Mainland Chinese, Japanese,,,,,,
Hi KopitiamApek,
Races and Colours(skin/hair/eye) are man made ?
We are not talking about horses and colour pencils.
Yes, a white marries a black does produce a different colour; to some extend it is man caused, You got a point Sir.
Languages, man made ? Could there be a natural language such that a lion roar and not meow ?
“Some winners will lose some day. Some losers will win some day.”
The Irish Nationalists involved in the Easter Uprising 1916 were executed by the British. Today they are heroes of the Irish Republic.
Chou En-Lai, when asked about the impact of the French Revolution of 1789, said: “It is too soon to tell”.
What is 20 years to a nation with more than 5000 years of history?
55) ah soh
sorry ah soh
I could have been more specific
I meant human languages.
horses are man made? how come i didn’t know that? by whom. Bukit Turf Club?
Lets not digress. There is no massacre in TianAnMen. It is an army putting down a rebellion. More importantly it is a Chinese family problem in other words internal affair.
Killing is never good and should be avoided. Spreading false and lop sided information is even worst. We should condemn all killings like:
Twin Towers
Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Iraq
Afghanistan
Israel
Palestine
Syria
May 13 Indonesia
etc, etc
Don’t just selectively pick on one.
54) chinese helicopter
////// Tiananmen massacre,…….. this was what the West want you to believe. ………just go and get rich. Look at China day, he should be the great man who saved China. ,,,,,,//////////
The West wants China to disintegrate like USSR, to be like the Middle East fragmented and in perpectual conflict,
Oftentimes they will spot the seeds of dissent in a country and will lavishly supply fertilisers to help it that grow into giant oaks of dissent, and when necessary, give them political asylum in the West, and then use them to ignite political instabilty in those countries by long distance remote control.
Since the colonial days, World domination has been a addiction of the West.
19) Gilbert Goh
//// I will be moving back to Sydney soon (14 June) and hope that I can provide a vocie even from abroad. I dont know how but i will try my best to continue the struggle even when abroad.////
Leaving so soon?
“How could you leave without regret, am I so easy to forget?” – Engelbert Humperdink
“Fly to your tommrrow, leave me to my sorrow” – Bad Company “Seagul”
60) KopitiamApek
Gilbert Goh
//// from abroad. I dont know how but i will try my best to continue the struggle even when abroad.////
Thank you, you may want to keep the struggle to yourself.
58) Thinktok
and Vietnam
Agent Orange and the post war deformed kids US left behind:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-02/05/content_303315.htm
and the one million who died in the killing fields in Cambodia
The domino theory was a foreign policy theory during the 1950s to 1980s, promoted at times by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to clarify the need for American intervention around the world. (wiki)
Including Vietnam.
And since US lost and left, no dominos have fallen.
But a whole nation brutally scared by decades of wars based on a theory someone cooked up in the Pentagon.
Respected American Christian Theologian, Prof David Ray Griffin, has this to say :
“For many Americans the idea that we are living in country where our own leaders planned and carried the attacks of 9-11 is simply too horrible to entertain. UNFORTUNATELY, HOWEVER, THERE IS CONVINCING EVIDENCE FOR THIS VIEW..”
MUST WATCH!!!
http://www.911docs.net/911_american_empire.php
64) borderless
thanks, very interesting
“Thank you, you may want to keep the struggle to yourself.”
Ignore what the Apek is saying. He is getting senile. We need people like you to be around to give moderating balance.
Surprising that it may seem, so many more Chinese as compared to other Asians are paying snake heads to smuggle them to the West in very appaling conditions. However, I do not see Indonesians, Filipinos or Indians doing this. If China has so much biz opportunities, weatlh, jobs, etc then why so desparate to leave? Maybe it has got to do with having more freedom perhaps or maybe there are big gaps in the official picture and actual picture. I guess that is why more Singaporeans are also leaving, but thankfully not using snake heads.
67 Anakin,
China still has a very serious social problem. The countryside is still poor and the rich are concentrated along the East corridor. Mass migration of poor farm hands to factories in Quangdong and other cities is very common.
China has double the land mass of India, yet its arable land is only half that of India. If the Chinese economy do not grow at more than 6% there is very high risk of social unrest.
So compared to the TAM incident, one must realise that China cannot have any misteps. Only the West are interested.
Chinese running to England or Geylang is common feature for the forseeable future. It is out of necessity and hunger and not lack of DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM or HUMAN RIGHTS etc. But if one woman working in Geylang can make enough money to support one child through school, the future of that child will be enhanced.
Singapore’s children has no such problem.
Thanks for your perspective but if you would refer to an article by Shifang on economy of India, so many posters claimed that poverty was more rampant in India than China, which begs the question yet again. Are we missing something here? Even Huang Na’s mum took risks and entered illegally on a fake name to earn a few bucks. Can’t she get the same opportunities in China?
69 anakin,
I do travelled extensively in China and part of India. Chinese are very industrious people and are experts at food production. They eat everything including beef. Majority are not interested in politicking, philosohysing and stratifying society. They just want food, wealth, face, and a future for their children.
All these chatters on the internet is not available to the majority of chinese in the rural areas. Democracy and keeping of pet dogs are fashion statements and mostly affects the people who have not known hunger or hardship.
The opportunities in China would be relatively less then Singapore for the layman but the latter’s consumption is so small and will not make an impact.
#35) LadyMadonna on June 5th, 2009 8.32 pm
Pardon me if I sound over-zealous in chastising the Chinese government for its role in the “Beijing massacre” and its attempts at justifying its actions. I may sound too emotional, though I doubt anybody can blame me when we are talking about loss of lives here.
We can question the way we bring forth our arguments, the simplicity of our thought processes and the limitated understanding of this incident, however simple or as complex as you suggest.
The fact is that there were lives lost as a result of a crackdown directed by the government on protesters who were largely unarmed. Rather than using a using a disproportionate amount of force (tanks on humans), is there a better way to control the situation which may be getting out of hand? I may not be an expert on crowd control but from an ethical point of view, I will never agree that state directed violent crackdowns resulting in a massive number of deaths can ever be justified. Why did the government wait for the situation to reach boiling point before sending in troops? Could preemptive arrests be a better option?
68) Thinktok
///. If the Chinese economy do not grow at more than 6% there is very high risk of social unrest.///
Some says 8%.
///Singapore’s children has no such problem.///
And some grow up ranting here on TOC
The lyrics of the song by this child singer is meaningful:
Tell Me Why- Declan Galbraith :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_MxONabNc
“War” – Edwin Starr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8C4AIFgUg
“War,
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
War, it ain’t nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
It’s an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Listen to me
war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can’t give life
It can only take it away
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there’s got to be a better way
War,
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing” -Edwin Starr
WAR………. failed politics ……….. failed politicians…………..
71) Jerome on June 8th, 2009 6.07 pm
//The fact is that there were lives lost as a result of a crackdown directed by the government on protesters who were largely unarmed. Rather than using a using a disproportionate amount of force (tanks on humans), is there a better way to control the situation which may be getting out of hand//
One could say the same about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – wasn’t there a better way of dealing with it than killing so many civilians in such a horrible way? Did the subsequent rise of Japan as an economic power (2nd largest economy in the world today) justify these killings? One could argue even if they had not dropped the bombs, Japan would eventually have surrendered, but on what terms?
As for Tiananmen, depending on which reports one reads, the student protestors were given time to vacate the Square and they did so. The killings (whatever the scale) did not occur in the Square. I am not defending the Chinese government’s actions (whatever they may have been, depending on which version of events one reads) but one needs to put events in context. Economic reforms, like democracy, work well only in a stable society. If China had descended into chaos, would the economic reforms have worked? Or even implemented? Yes, the reforms have not resulted in better conditions for all, but which country in the world has managed to eradicate poverty, injustice and exploitation completely?
75) LadyMadonna ///Economic reforms, like democracy, work well only in a stable society////
Your statement hits the jackpot. Very true.
///but which country in the world has managed to eradicate poverty, injustice and exploitation completely?///
None, to the best of my knowledge. It exists in an ideal world only