US$1.24 million ? This is small money and I would say the SG govt is smart. Rich nation do have to spend so that everything goes smoothly and ahead when we needed to invest business in Vietnam. This kind of spending is 101% worth it and indeed necessary.

Look at how much Taiwan spend on those small African nations? The return is peanuts compare with how much SG can benefit from those industrial park in Vietnam.

Great job SG govt, you have the Singaporean in mind when you spend. In future when our childrens are send by their companies to Vietnam they would feel more welcome.

ass-wipe

wow, if one student is 113k, then 155 students is 175 million, not a small sum and there are other countries as well.

Good Track II diplomatic initiative. Bootstrap our neighbours so that we can add to a common regional community.

What to do, not enough local students qualify for them what.

But for those local males, you need to serve NS. This one the Gahmen really cannot get foreign talent to do it. What to do.

The fundamental reasons for Singaporeans to pay tax have been screwed. Just like our CPF reitrement objective. Singaporeans have never given approval to all our govt recent actions, they should be sacked immediately.

It is interesting to read from history how the Manchus, a non-Han Chinese tribe from Manchuria, conquered China from the Ming dynasty in 1644 and then ruled the country for 264 years. The imperial army was protecting the Middle Kingdom from the Manchu army which was massing in the north when Chinese peasants revolted against the emperor. Despising the peasants, the imperial army would rather surrender to the superior foreigners.

History may repeat itself here, which Mahathir has described as a little middle kingdom. Maybe, in the year 2020 rather than letting Chee S J and the other opposition leaders capture parliament, the PAP would prefer to hand over the mandate to the foreign talents from Vietnam, China and India.

will the vietnamese students choose to stay in singapore or migrate to some better foreign country where there is a larger vietnamese diaspora?

well as the expats say “singapore is all about cash and carry”…

only dont apply to singaporeans

Sigh… what else can I say but that “VOTE WISELY”, people!!!

I am curious to know who are the parents of these students?
Any special interesting personalities??

$1.2b spend on foreign students, you know how many of those old folks turned tissue paper sellers you can help?

you: NS for locals, Jobs for FT!!!

govt: what to do? its happened, lets move on.

you: ok

The question is whether these students are truly better than the local students who have not been able to get a place at NUS & NTU. No real head-to-head comparison is ever made but the authorities would have us believe that those coming in are better than the locals.

Interestingly, the news does not seem to appear in our mainstream media…

This type of scholarship serves many benefits in the long run. In simple form, it is for networking purpose. Scholarship holders whether stay in Singapore or not after graduation are likely to be involved in business or activities directly or indirectly dealing with Singapore. Having studied in Singapore for 4 yrs or more will help to bridge the future relationship for Singapore.

I cannot imagine that taxpayer’s money is used to train foreigners. I do not understand why average local student can loose out to them. I am sure in future I wont want my money to be used to train foreigners rather than our own children. What for make more babies locally for the gahman when the gahman chooses to train foreigners.

only 11 ? I think they should bring in more. This investment can only benefit future relations with our neighbouring countries. Anyways, money is better spent on them than on local ingrates. Singaporeans are just too self centered. Thank god someone in the government has more good sense than the idiots who simply finds joy in taking a contradictory position from our government.

One country Vietnam only we spent US$1.24 million. What when all the foreign scholarships are added together? China with a much larger population, definitely would received far bigger amount each year. So would be Indonesia.

Cheap PR and good investment lah! Just look at our MAS “invested” 6 billions USD in USA and european banks.

Hope these 11 fellow won’t stab their professor and jump down building.

Vietnam do need better judiciary and contractual system in their countries. Vietnam needs more foreign educated students to improve their upsided down system.

Question here is are these student -children of current political leaders -is SIN buying into political futures or are these student truely selected through high performance in schools. Are these student selected becos we had to do business and this is one way to buy political favours just like we did in Suzhou.

SIN is known to promote only children of political leaders from overseas countries in order to buy into current political favour.

Having said, it doesnt mean the Sin graduate graduate will return to serve their own countries. They understand their worth is more by staying overseas.

Our nett lost – some SIN student loses a chance to study in UNI here. Our nett gain, some excellent VN-English speaking VN graduates who may have a chance to work in Capland, Kepland, SEMCorp..

If these are children of VN political leaders, they graduate and return, when there is so money to take under their current system – which way will they go? What will their VN leaders/parents teach them to do?

I OBJECT to money taxed from me going to support FOREIGNERS! So many Singaporeans need help – low-income families, the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly who have to work till they die, the chronic sick, etc etc. But the govt refuses to help them, telling them there’s no free lunch. Instead it plays Santa Claus to foreigners with our money. CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!.

Singaporekia,

You say it is wise for the government to get into the good books of the Vietnamese so that there can be future business partnerships. My question is: Is this the only way to get into the good books of a communist government? This is why I say you have been bought into the Singapore Way. It’s time Singaporeans like you started thinking out-of-the-box.

Ya sad news but not surprising.

Many people in China i knew dreamed of leaving their own country via the Singaporean educational path. I heard that it is not difficult to get a scholarship – just all the stream of As will do. There is also strangely not a long bond attached to the scholarship.

Some who gave up halfway also has no penalty to repay back the loan amount.

They all tried to apply for scholarship and when they get it they studied at our expenses and then left for another better country – Australia, US or Canada.

With our focus on meritocracy using the foreign route, my fear is that it will backfire on our own country and remember that is our own taxpayer money. I am sure that at least half will want to leave for greener pastures after that.

Singapore is just a passport out of their own country.

“…The scholarship recipients were selected on their academic merit, leadership qualities and potential to contribute to community development…”

The selection criteria must have been very stringent to award a handful of FTs millionS$ over a few hundreds potential locals. A few samples are:

1. David Hartanto Widjaja, Indonesian on Asean scholarship at NTU. Stabbed AP Chan Kap Luk, Mar 2009. Contributed to development of media coverage and stress-crisis management.

2. Kwong Kok Hing, Malaysian on Asean scholarship at NUS. Pushed ex-girlfriend into the path of oncoming train at Clementi MRT after being snubbed, Sep 2006. Contributed to understanding importance of having glass panels/doors between trains & platforms on MRT stations.

Appreciate if anyone could share similar incidents. Oh…..

3. Scholar ran naked at Holland V with foreign BF. Lost the details or faith in our “scholars”…

BTW, SGP is (I think) third largest foreign investor in Vietnam.

Look at it from a foreign aid perspective.

Giving scholarships is one of the aid that we give to countries.
Considering the amount of aid we are giving compared to places like US, Japan,
we are not exactly the most generous nation around. And this is keeping in mind that those countries are giving despite having their own unemployment, poverty problems.

From a more calculative perspective,
there is a gd rationale for it. not only is it gd PR for us (#1), for those students who study in Sg, they will probably do better in life, when they return home. (because they are considered overseas ’scholar’)

Those people who rise up eventually, will remember Sg in a good light and make things easier for SG in future. In that sense, it is even desirable that we ’set them free’ to get the maximum benefits.

Well, Vietnam is one of SEA’s fastest growing economies. Its a good idea to build relations at all levels.

The elites have their privileges. These eleven students must be the cream de la cream, the top of the crop. We are a society where people with top brains are valued and well taken care-off. Ordinary folks, the not so smart are just digits. I am quite sure the eleven places could have been given to deserving but not so smart Sporeans. I am sure if given the chance, these not so smart Sporeans will also be able to make it to the top. But if only they are given the chance. Alas, smart foreign students are favoured over not so smart locals. What a pity. But we are a society only for the elites. Hence, I am not surprised that smart foreign students are given scholarships and places in our top three universities.

It’s just 11 students, nothing to be worried about.

It would be good to have a transparent policy for such selection schemes though.

In any case, like I said, this is a vital cog in enhancing intra-ASEAN cooperation. People in Vietnam and Burma view us as a way out of poverty for their children, through education. Take it as a long-term programme to ensure that we remain very important and vital as the core of ASEAN’s future.

[...] Strangers in a Strange Land – geraldgiam.sg: Singapore: Multiculturalism or the melting pot? – Mathia Lee: The New Racial Disharmony – Hard Hitting in the Lion City: Are We a Nation Yet? – TOC: 11 Vietnamese students awarded scholarships worth US$1.24 million [...]

Soft power.

So given equivalent levels of performances, local scholarships allow rich families to apply, and foreign scholarships are for those who affected by financial crisis ?

Singapore Govt giving scholarships to FTs?
Got to have a reason for it…… No freebies with the PAP for sure.

Why doesn’t the PAP give these scholarships to Singaporean students?

1) Singaporekia on July 19th, 2009 7.47 pm
“Look at how much Taiwan spend on those small African nations?”

oh, chequebook diplomacy. And have they really suceeded.

“Great job SG govt, you have the Singaporean in mind when you spend. In future when our childrens are send by their companies to Vietnam they would feel more welcome.”

extremely greenhorn & very naive, you just do not know how humans behave.

Spore govt. obviously look down on local people. It always says we are lack of telented ppl, so they have to import from Vietnam and other countries.

Out of these 11, how many will treat Singapore as a stepping stone? You can ask those foreign students receiving education subsidies, how much do they know about Singapore and Singaporeans? I befriended one foreign student, she never explore beyond the school and her apartment. After graduate, just went to UK for further studies. She knows zilch about Singapore.

If Singapore to them is just a place to get a qualification and f*cuk off, how does it benefit us?

onced again
you all realLEE don’t know the motives behind the scene @ all
the same government we ^voted^ or didnotvote do it to the chinese chinamen as well………
why did they do it
because the foreign students are too smart?
~zhee~

WE ARE TALKIN ABOUT RUBBIN BACKSIDES

where got sell doormat that says “Welcome to S’pore”?

+.+

opps
part II
if we were to check the receipents background very very closeLEE
you would be surprised
how many of this receipents parents are vietnamese government linked ministers or whatsoever
we are doin the vietcong ministeries a favours
by supportin their childrens here to study
in return the vietcong ministers must returned the favours when we called upon it for international redribbon cuttin backdoor business dealins……..
its all about MONEY………
DIEHARD IX

Wonder in total how many scholarships are given out each year?
How many subsequently migrate to US or Australia?
Obama and Rudd should be very thankful.Stupid Singapore.
NS{ National Scholarship} for foreigners
NS [National Service} for Sinaporean males. Stupid Singaporeans..
Lets educate the world at Singaporean tax payer expense.

Dear Forummers,

Investing in 10 of them with 1-2 repaying your kindness later on is good enough.

Although the places in NUS/NTU are limited, to add 1 or 2 more in each class room is not a big deal in terms of cost. Cos’ the “fixed costs” are already accounted.

It is much much better than throwing money away (and billions of it) like HC and Co.

“Although the places in NUS/NTU are limited, to add 1 or 2 more in each class room is not a big deal in terms of cost. Cos’ the “fixed costs” are already accounted.”

ya la, 1 or 2 to each class is insignificant lah if it is true. but anyway, does anyone know of the estimated ratio of foreign to local students in each class / dept / cohort, or whatever, etc. which would be a better reference point.

Lee Kuan Yew knew about the FT using Spore as a stepping stone. He said if 3 out of 10, will stay put, then it is good enough !!!! Is Lee stupid ?? I don’t know, if 10 FT come to local Uni, then 10 local students can’t get in local Uni and 10 of them went overseas studies, and don’t come back. We lose 10 local bred Singaporeans who also serve NS. Compare 10 to 3 FT who stay put, you do your maths, and decide Lee KY stupid or not.

aiyoyo

got $ must spend in this way meh?

by the way, this us$1.24 million come from who huh?

aiyoyo

No need to comment anymore. Just vote for opposiion in the next election. Show them the Peoples’ Power. YES WE CAN!!!!!

I think the singapore govt is very naive to think that by using scholarships, they can retain these foreigners. In fact, if I were a foreigner, I come to singapore to study then go back home. What for stay here? This ain’t my home.

#42) Moe Gan Thai
‘Compare 10 to 3 FT who stay put, you do your maths, and decide Lee KY stupid or not.’
…………………………………………….

He thinks the FTs are more intelligent than the 10 locals who do not even qualify for our uni. That is why the 10 locals have to go overseas for their degrees.

#13) Ganga
‘Interestingly, the news does not seem to appear in our mainstream media….’
………………………………………………

It is politically incorrect for the ST to publish this type of news. Common Sense!

NUS/NTU cannot lower their entry bars.

These poor students (esp. from Vietnam) are the really bright ones, otherwise they cannot enter our local U.

As I understand, they are the top 1-2% of their cohorts. Obviously it is good to have them to pit against our very best.

Some students here party so much and still expect NUS/NTU to accept their mediocre results?

As I have commented, 1-2 mil is not big amount. It is certainly a better investment than HC & Co. losing Bils without regrets!

Regards,
Patriot Missile

After they graduate from NUS and return home, their parent (assume top leaders) tell them, son dont waste time…. there is a hard way and there is a easier way… there goes… hopely one out of the 11 will turned out to be an Obama.. In meantime the leaders there will set traps and obstacle and SIN will pay and pay … just to do business there…..

In about 10 years singapore will be overrun by migrants. they will be able to vote and will be loyal to the ruling party. the ruling class consisting of the present members and thier family and cronies would have been established

Hi (6) David ,

“The fundamental reasons for Singaporeans to pay tax have been screwed. Just like our CPF reitrement objective. Singaporeans have never given approval to all our govt recent actions, they should be sacked immediately.”

This is so that they can receive high salaries and offer scholarships to foreigners.

Hi (7) Edward
“Maybe, in the year 2020 rather than letting Chee S J and the other opposition leaders capture parliament, the PAP would prefer to hand over the mandate to the foreign talents from Vietnam, China and India.”

Your prediction might come true if there is no political reform.

(13) Ganga:
“The question is whether these students are truly better than the local students who have not been able to get a place at NUS & NTU. No real head-to-head comparison is ever made but the authorities would have us believe that those coming in are better than the locals.”

20) White Owl:
“SIN is known to promote only children of political leaders from overseas countries in order to buy into current political favour. ”

You both have asked very good questions. My friend is a lecturer in a university in Singapore and has taught many international students. Example, the breakdown of nationality in her class of about 80 students is as follows:
60% – China
20% – Vietnam
20% – others

I must say that most of them could speak with American accent, unlike our ‘Singlish’ accent. However, when it comes to writing, only a handful of them (5%) could write well. For the rest, you could hardly understand what they are trying to say in their written assignements.

This is the same for the foreign research professors in our local universities, especially those coming from China and Taiwan. Although they seem to speak well (with American accent), but when it comes to writing, you might be able to collect enough of them to publish an “academic jokes” book. They just can’t write!!! How did they survived? They would asked their assistants (Singaporeans) who could write well to write on their behalf and then publish the materials in their name (i.e. plagiarism).

A mere 11 students got this much. Look in our universities/polys and you can hundreds and hundreds of such students. I shudder when I think about how much money MOE is giving out rather than educating our local young. My friend is a sec sch teacher and she says that she needs to pay for many things including stationary…the school will not pay……IRONIC is an understatement…

Just another case when locals are overlooked, while foreign 2nd rate talents are treated like treasure….by our very own government.

I remember being on a bus 2 years ago in Texas while I still had a job and was there for training, someone craved “Don’t blame me! I did not vote for Bush” on the back of a seat. If you see “Don’t blame me! I did not vote for P&P” on a SBS bus, it must mean I did it.

Hi (32) MC Harding,
“Singapore Govt giving scholarships to FTs?
Got to have a reason for it…… No freebies with the PAP for sure.

They will say, “I am your commander… you just do as I say with no question asked.”

“Why doesn’t the PAP give these scholarships to Singaporean students?”

They will not outrightly say “No”. But indirectly, the policy will be written such that Singaporeans will not get the funding. I can cite a real recent case below:

Someone I knew has received 2 separate offers from 2 Australian universities to do her PhD (Education & Social), one in Australian campus and one in sg campus. She called MCYS to asked if she could apply for the “Family Research Fund ($100k) found at http://app.mcys.gov.sg/WEB/research_family_ResearchFund.asp

To her surprise, the MCYS officer told her that it is only meant for PhD students studying in NUS, NTU, SMU and UniSIM. However, if you do a check at these local universities, you will know that they either do not have the PhD programme, or their programmes have nothing to do with family, or social, or education. Even the few PhD programmes they offered are not our own local university programme but a joint-programme with oversea universities, which are priced very much higher (double or more) than those offered directly from oversea universities.

In another word, only foreigners who are rich or have scholarship from sg could take up PhD studies in sg (they need not waste 2+ yrs in NS and can do PhD at a younger age). They are also the ones who could get such funding ( tax payers’ money), besides the scholarship (also tax payers’ money).

In the first place, sg already does not have many PhD students, yet our govt is not supporting those who can and wish to do PhD. I wonder if such policy is also a way to keep Singaporeans less educated so that so that there will be less possible oppositions.

So many sour grapes here, even got Chee SJ supporter, what a joke.

I was once on a business trip to a neighbouring country and before the negotiation was really not very sure if we can clinch the dual as we have American and European competitors. To my surprise for 1 and half hour the company MD was sharing how his daugther came to Singapore to prepare for the scholarship offered to enter our local university, how life changed for her daughter etc etc and before long the dual with on the table singed sealed and delivered. Thinking back I really thanks our governement for the dual help to employ a few hundred Singaporeans and we don’t need to lay off any of them during this difficult time as the project runs till 2012.

to singaporekia

oic. singaporeans have been subsidizing your overseas business ventures then. thanks to our money spent on scholarships for foreigners, you get to enjoy goodwill and clinch the business deals. while at home, you also complain of how fussy singaporeans are and therefore you’re forced to employ more foreigners.

it’s a case of haves versus have-nots. the pap gahmen is undoubtedly pro-business, and administers under the guise of “for-the-good-of-the-people”.

- if you have ever been rejected by the local universities (even though your grades are accepted for placement in good Oz ones),

- if you have seen foreigners on scholarship even though their grades stink,

- if you have heard how foreigners (especially prs) boast of leaving sinkapore as soon as they can gather enough working experience to work in us/uk etc etc

then maybe instead of brandishing others as “sour grapes” or jealous “lesser mortals”, you will sing a different tune.

well well, election is the time when the majority wins. let’s see if the giant is still in slumber or awakens to reclaim its rightful place.

well there was a FT who was grumbling non-stop as to why the 2 Sporeans in his class of 20 scholarship students were given less project work to do for nearly an hour. Then, I just told him one line, that Sporeans have to do NS do you? That stop him in his tracks and he added only one line that if he were asked to do NS, he would never come to Spore in the 1st place! Such fantastic FTs!

Singaporekia ,

That’s why some of us say you are naïve. First of all, care to tell us why it is a joke for anyone to support Dr Chee Soon Juan, if he so chooses?

Secondly, if I am your MD, you will be the first employee I would fire – for thinking that your product is inferior to those of the Americans and the Europeans – even before you set out to clinch the deal (not dual). It is no surprise that you were surprised by the end result – and for you to continue to be surprised – for that matter.

Thirdly, because of your lack in faith in your own boss and his product, you are still not convinced that it was your boss, his product and his sales technique that clinched the deal instead of the scholarship story narrated by you. You have insulted your own boss by suggesting that it was our government, through the scholarship offered to your MD’s daughter, that had won the business deal for your boss. Wow! How in the world could one derive at such a conclusion is really something.

Fourth, your insult did not end there but you continued to insult the businessmen from the neighbouring country, suggesting that these businessmen disregarded the business nature of the transaction but was instead won over by the benefactory goodness of the Singapore government.

You really need to do something with your thinking skills.

let’s not get too worked up with Singaporekia, he or she may not even be a true blue S’porean.

just here to rub salt on other’s wounds…

at least we can see for ourselves what “meritocrazy” is about- BS. such a story may even be made up to stir negative sentiments.

55) Singaporekia on July 21st, 2009 6.19 am
“thanks our governement for the dual help to employ a few hundred Singaporeans and we don’t need to lay off any of them during this difficult time as the project runs till 2012.”

And you are telling us about your business trip. It is your we mr. businessman. mind telling us what sort of businessman you are, from GLC ?? for your info, GLCs already employ a lot of people already, if your pretense happens to cloud your memory.

Talking about the need to lay off, I thought they are seeing increasing no. of PMETs.

“To my surprise for 1 and half hour the company MD was sharing how his daugther came to Singapore to prepare for the scholarship offered to enter our local university,”

The story would have been sweeter and satisfying if the schorlarship went into our own local, just to add one more local to the uni-education tally – assuming that the scholarhsip was offered by some local body.

60)

“The story would have been sweeter and satisfying if the schorlarship went into our own local, just to add one more local to the uni-education tally – assuming that the scholarhsip was offered by some local body.”

I think you’re missing the point here. The ASEAN scholarship system is serves a political role in addition to its educational function. We still have our own scholarship programs for the local university students funded by foundations and other private entities..

Giving scholarships to foreigners is alright, there are some benefits to it.

However, Singaporeans should not be sidelined as a result. There is a limit to university places. With the influx of foreign students, how many Singaporeans now have to go overseas for their degrees because their places were given to foreigners? Most of these Singaporeans graduate with at least 2nd Class upper honours from these first tier universities, so they are not as bad as claimed.

“The ASEAN scholarship system is serves a political role in addition to its educational function.”

Agreed. They have their political goal likewise the common people who are having to pay for it collectively also have their goal.

And this goal will be a more acceptable one if the whole process of conducting affairs (not only in awarding scholarship) is being democratised and more of a consensus building type, else noise will be made and may even be louder if the platform is an open one registering the true intention & feeling of the people, and not just the viewpoints of a few.

Admission criteria for own locals may also be different from those being offered to foreign scholars given political consideration now plays a key role here. So some borderline yet deserving locals may have to pay the price of a lost slot already earmarked for political shoulder rubbing. Correct me if I am wrong.

Hi (61) CelluloidReality,
“The ASEAN scholarship system is serves a political role in addition to its educational function. We still have our own scholarship programs for the local university students funded by foundations and other private entities..”

You may be correct to say that “ASEAN scholarship system is serves a political role”. However, if it is done at the expense of grooming our own local talents, forcing many of them to study overseas instead, then it just doesn’t make sense. It’s like you pay for other people’s children education but not for your own children.

Why is our government passing the funding of grooming local talents to “foundations and other private entities”, instead of taking responsibility to do it?

#55 Singaporekia
You disappoint your master — didnt it instruct you to learn and master english??
For your information, it is Deal — not DUAL, the first time i think you make a typo, but a second time, i know you did not pay attention in your obedience school, now go back and take remedial class and a bone ……….

I would agree with what Reform Party hopes to champion for Singaporeans at http://www.thereformparty.net/?p=238 :

“Our Finest Resource is Our People.
• Education and training to be given a higher priority and higher levels of investment in order to reduce dependence on imported skills and to compete with Asian and other competitor nations”

In this regards, there is more room for improvement from our govt. Sg govt only makes primary education compulsory. Early childhood education (which is the most critical year) and post secondary education are being neglected. It’s not cheap to study in our local universities, even though we can pay by CPF, which has to be returned with interest upon completion of studies.

If you look at the costs of postgraduate degree (Masters or PhD) programmes in our local universities (with limited choices), they are being priced so high that they are beyond the reach of most Singaporeans, if there is no scholarship or sponsorship to go along. As a result, most Singaporeans are forced to study with oversea universities. Therefore, whose fault would it be when these Singaporeanswere to choose not to come back to Singapore?

In addition, scholarships to foreign students do not carry a bond, while the scholarships for local students usually have bonds of 3 to 4 years. This goes to show that our govt does not mind foreign students to use our money and then leave us for good.

One classic example is my neighbour. She is a foreign student, doing her PhD studies in NUS. She has got her scholarship from our govt since her undergrad studies till now. There is no bond attached to her scholarship. She will be graduating this year and then go back to her home country for good. Do you think she will be grateful to our govt or Singaporeans? NO! She has been complaining about sg and Singaporeans at her facebook almost everyday.

Hello guys, don’t complain. Just vote this government out in the next election. Simple as that. Show them the Peoples’ Power. Don’t be weak and afraid especially those civil servants. Think of your children in the future when they have no place in S’pore because this government do not care about us. They can talk but do the other way. Wake UP S’porean!!!! Remember : YES WE CAN!!!!!!!

What was the convincing rationale not to have a university last time when at least 1 more was needed based on the desire by many poly grads who like to advance their learning?

It is a fact that many had no choice but to go overseas and spend and spend a lot more and have to leave their comfort zone and go overseas for a few years after being most-of-the-time not staying with family during ns?

At that time, was not having more degree grads good for singapore?

So, what was the convincing rationale, if any?

Why now? Ok, now a lot more needs it. But last time, also a lot need it such that 1 more uni may not have been enough also.

Why limit only the top eg. 5 % (not sure the exact %) to uni?
Why not Allow the eg. 95% a chance to attend u locally back then?

I mean, in the name of progress, prosperity, I could not comprehend this move.

I can understand the need to limit the best for local u.
What I cannot understand is why not allow a 2nd or 3rd u last time to the students who passed poly or pre-u or JC to also get the chance to enter another U meant for such grades students who never failed? More uni grads are better THAN having more of these not getting uni education or cert.

Many due to financial reasons stopped furthering.

so, now they have more like NTU and SMU etc.

why not back then?

convince me.

ERRATA:

“68) skulubachikoo on July 21st, 2009 2.13 pm What was the convincing rationale not to have a university last time ”

should be :

What was the convincing rationale not to have AN ADDITIONAL university last time ….

64)

Creducator,

Well, isn’t PSC a local scholarship scheme adminstered by the government? The foundations and NGOs provide a filler should there be others who need money, and do not qualify academically..

There are many private initiatives out there, it is the same in any developed country. People abroad actually work their butts off to seek funding for college, unlike here where MOE grants already pay off a significant amount of undergraduate education.

@67) Yang on July 21st, 2009 12.28 pm

Yang, hate to disappoint people like you, but do you guys really think our system will allow opposition to have a control share of parliament even if they get 40-50% of votes in next election? This is off-topic, but may be U should analyse the 2006 elections results…

Hi (67) Yang,
“Just vote this government out in the next election. ”

I 2nd it, BUT, we still need to have good oppositions ma.

I am very disappointed with WP. If you try to email them your concerns u wd either never get a reply from any of them, unless u keep sending reminders. Then after a week or so, u suddenly get a reply which says: “We receive all kinds of mail, and we can’t possibly please or respond to everyone. People are free to give us their views, but until you are involved in the actual doing, the picture is not complete.” Full stop! Mind u, this reply came from WP chairman/woman.

Probably we cd only hope that RP cd b a more credible party. Go and join their Open House and find out more 1st la.
http://www.thereformparty.net/?page_id=277
http://www.thereformparty.net/?page_id=190

[i]Great job SG govt, you have the Singaporean in mind when you spend. In future when our childrens are send by their companies to Vietnam they would feel more welcome.[/i]

why do you needs to send your children to vietnam?
when you labelled yourself as a singaporekia?
you did ungkat singapore government did a greatjob
right?
yes
no?
if singapore government did a great job
why needs to send our future childrens to vietnam to work?
why?
jurong wastelands is being converted into 1 giant golfcourse or 1 giant IR resort?
please teach us ley?

Hi (70) CelluloidReality,

You said: “Well, isn’t PSC a local scholarship scheme adminstered by the government? ”

If u visit the PSC site you will find that its criteria are so high that not many locals can make it. But the same criteria are not applicable to foreign students. Why?

“To be eligible for PSC Scholarships, applicants should generally offer at least 11 AUs. This would typically include General Paper (GP), Mother Tongue (MT), Project Work (PW), and 4 H2 content-based subjects. For students who offer Knowledge and Inquiry (KI) in lieu of GP, it would typically be KI, MT, PW, and 3 H2 and 1 H1 content-based subjects. Outstanding applicants with 10 AUs and strong recommendation from their schools could still be considered on a case-by-case basis. ”
source – http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx?qst=2fN7e274RAp%2bbUzLdEL%2fmCxs7iwcgv8gv2atNDOvsLD4oa9LSaR5sSuqDrIST6z1l6uxcHSvD0Nsy0p9f1c57bobMdZqEM%2ba4FZP4jONUyoVl%2fABpX9wYVOEgWW68HquUuRkwspUElWBtSEHgf%2f9YQ7EvMOj8ehBomBqvblYodHHGYsM8vqFjDMdTJfHq%2fxVynIrmSHKVyv3i1E9SSt4uf5KwODlCVbxIFcwsLocim0%3d

You said: “The foundations and NGOs provide a filler should there be others who need money, and do not qualify academically.”

Which foundations and NGOs will provide funding or scholarship if they “do not qualify academically”?

You said: “People abroad actually work their butts off to seek funding for college, unlike here where MOE grants already pay off a significant amount of undergraduate education.”

Which “MOE grants” are you talking about? Care to give us the link?

Hey Guys!

Guess what? I just received a call from NUS Alumni asking for donations for students in financial difficulty. A program called “Annual Giving”

I was surprised, to say the least. The gahment can spend millions and millions to give foreigners free education but cannot afford to help our less fortunate local students??

I asked the lady on the phone: “There are so many ex-NUS foreign students who received our gahment’s money in the past. They must want to give back. Surely the donations are flooding in??” She paused for a long time. I asked “If I donate, can I be sure the money ONLY goes to local students?” She paused for a longer time.

We give so much to foreigners that our own kids have difficulty to go to university……sad……very sad……..

That’s a good one, (75) Bitter Singaporean. It may set the caller to start thinking…..

Bitter Singaporean & creducator. I luv your post. But do you think the caller will think?
Look at how the gov filter Singaporean out of the systems. Poorer Singaporean will be trapped in their own social class for a long long time.

How many time Singaporean has complained about the FT? Yet do the gov listen? NO. NO. NO.
Our gov classify FT as jobs that Singaporean cannot do and do not want to do.
So a prostitute is considered as a FT but a extremely good FT cos they are the EXCEPTIONAL bunch that do not pay taxes.

Wow everything the GOV win and FT wins. We have the left behind. Sian.

This scholarships are funded by the Temasek Holding Foundation Fund manage by HC, so its none of our bussiness.

Creducator,

Anyone who has applied to the local universities and is a citizen/PR will have been eligible for a MOE Tuition Grant. This information is available on the MOE website and the respective Universities’

As for the PSCs.. well, tough luck if not everyone can make it. I’m merely using it as an illustration that there are local schemes. I wasn’t good enough for that scheme too, but it didn’t deter me.

The issue here is that if you can make it, good. if not, it’s still not the end of the world. There’s always avenues to pursue further education when you work et al..

There are other ways to pay for Uni education but what got me thinking is the amount of people who think that Uni education is an entitlement, and not something that one has to work hard to pay for.

Creducator,

Also, when I referred to the NGOs and all that, I was referring to the inability to meet the academic requirements for PSC scholarship, and hence having a hard time financing an education at Oxbridge or HYPSM (from what I’ve heard… the PSC bar is set higher than regular international applicants).

CelluloidReality,

I understand tertiary education is not an entitlement. Hell, I worked myself through uni and am still in debt to NUS.

***The problem is that while tertiary education is not an ENTITLEMENT for locals, it seems to be an ENTITLEMENT for foreign students MOE and other gov entities selected.

Even if locals do not make the cut, the money should be spent on grooming them, spent on helping those with financial difficulties, spent on those who actually served NS to protect the country. The money IS tax-payers’ money afterall. Our forefathers did not pay so many years of tax, out of their blood and sweat money, to pay for outsiders’ education.

They have free education, $500+ monthly allowances, and NO real BOND!!! Then, they take undercut us (salary-wise) for jobs which could have been ours and jack-up the housing prices some more! All with the endorsement of our gahment.

You may say they pay taxes too. This is assuming they stay. Even if they pay taxes, while the gahment benefits with the money, how much of this money really flows to us??

Ask yourself. Do you really want your tax money to be used this way, grooming outsiders to deprive our kids of a job, of a home??

I wonder if the first comment was made by a Singaporean or a Vietnamese pretending to be a ‘Singaporekia’?

@ 82) D,

the answer you are looking for is provided by the second comment.
does not matter what nationality, straight forward.

I think we all feel betrayed by our own country at the end of the day~Sighs.

What to do? Shrug.

[i]Spirit-centred on July 21st, 2009 11.01 pm This scholarships are funded by the Temasek Holding Foundation Fund manage by HC, so its none of our bussiness.[/i]

it is OUR buisness
when temasek used OUR
cpf money as collatrol
despite lossin billion$
with little chance of recovery
than again
leekuanyew just mereLEE seek
give him 30 years to recover
YOUR cpf savin$
he is not worrid @ all
afterall he still get paid @ over $100,000++/month
do you get paid @ over $1000++/month if you are leekuanyew’s age workin for any company
and yet you still make a lost in your performance?

To #84 7th month

No need to Shrug, but you and all of us need to VOTE THEM OUT in the next elections !!!

Vote them out before all the places in our varsity are taken by foreign students !!
Vote them out before Ho JInx lose more billions now that she is back at TemaSick !!
Vote them out before that Singapore become Chinaspore !!!

79) CelluloidReality

Agree with you view. If uni is viewed as an entitlement, 100% of SG will enter uni, which must result in lowering of standard, and the paper you get would become what it is ,a paper, and unemployment of grads will be rampant.

81) Bitter Singaporean

//////You may say they pay taxes too. This is assuming they stay. Even if they pay taxes, while the gahment benefits with the money, how much of this money really flows to us??///////

This argument stands when gahmen money is viewed as not people’s money.
If viewed as the economy as a whole, there will be a net gain.

Hi (79) CelluloidReality ,
“Anyone who has applied to the local universities and is a citizen/PR will have been eligible for a MOE Tuition Grant. This information is available on the MOE website and the respective Universities’”

I know. Not only for citizen and PR, but also for foreign students as well. So like the Tuition Grant is free for all regardless of nationality. The fact remains that Singaporeans are subsidizing foreign students’ education in sg.

“There are other ways to pay for Uni education but what got me thinking is the amount of people who think that Uni education is an entitlement, and not something that one has to work hard to pay for.”

You have missed the point. I don’t think anyone is saying that “Uni education is an entitlement, and not something that one has to work hard to pay for”.

What we are unhappy with is that our govt is making it harder for locals to enter universities compared to foreign students. For example, when it comes to scholarship, only those within the 95th percentile of our local students in the top schools can have a chance to get them. My take is that our local students from the 70th to the 94th percentile of our top schools are better than the foreign students. Yet many of them will not get the scholarship. Another thing is that foreign students’ scholarship comes without bond, while there is a bond for locals.

One more issue: the difference in uni fees between local students and foreign students is only about 30%, while that of other countries, eg UK, is between 70 and 80%. Meaning, UK treats her own local students much better than sg treats hers.

89) creducator

/////////our local students from the 70th to the 94th percentile of our top schools are better than the foreign students//////////

That is debatable

I stand corrected by those who knows Malaysia more than I do.

Malaysia’s NEP has not got its bumis better off despite giving priority to bumis for education, for uni entry, etc, the result after decades of keeping out non bumis is the local uni suffers from falling standards

82) D

/////////// I wonder if the first comment was made by a Singaporean or a Vietnamese pretending to be a ‘Singaporekia’?/////////

It could be either.
Many Singaporeans would share his views of being open to non Singaporeans

89) creducator

///////What we are unhappy with is that our govt is making it harder for locals to enter universities compared to foreign students//////////

There were foreign students in Singapore for decades.
When there was only one uni and 1 poly, getting in was really hard. You gotta be really among the top 2-3% of the cohort to enter uni and next 10% to enter poly. Those who could not gotta live with the O or A level cert. Unless your parents are loaded enough to go abroad, which were rare those days

I do not think it is harder now to get into uni. And if one’s grades are not too great, there is the path of going to poly and then back to uni, an option that was non existent then.

[i] i do not think it is harder now to get into uni. And if one’s grades are not too great, there is the path of going to poly and then back to uni, an option that was non existent then.[/i]

wow!
who made you dean?
first you says parents are too poor to send kids abroad
that i agreed with you
now you tell parents to make a uturn goin to poly
and then try to enter BACK to uni
while foreign students just waltz in without a single english words tucked in

you called this an OPTION?
~zhee~

94) iwantobe a naked undergrad

///////first you says parents are too poor to send kids abroad
that i agreed with you
now you tell parents to make a uturn goin to poly
and then try to enter BACK to uni/////////

You may want to re-read what I wrote.

/////while foreign students just waltz in without a single english words tucked in/////////

really without a single english words ? so how do they communicate, by smoke signals?

90) KopitiamApek,
“/////////our local students from the 70th to the 94th percentile of our top schools are better than the foreign students//////////
That is debatable”

Yes, it’s as debatable as thinking that only the 95th percentile of our top schools’ students can compete with the foreign students. Therefore, to dismiss all speculations, our universities must be transparent about the successful scholars’ qualification. Otherwise, it is not wrong for us to think that the 70th to the 94th percentile of our top schools are better than the foreign students, given that sg claimed to be the elite in education and from personal experience encounters.

93) KopitiamApek,
“///////What we are unhappy with is that our govt is making it harder for locals to enter universities compared to foreign students//////////
I do not think it is harder now to get into uni. And if one’s grades are not too great, there is the path of going to poly and then back to uni, an option that was non existent then.”

You must be the bright spark who got into uni without problem, or the dim spark who got into uni via uturn huh? Or are you implying that many of our local students are so super stupid to have problem entering our local uni even despite the uturn?

To: 91) KopitiamApek

///Malaysia’s NEP has not got its bumis better off despite giving priority to bumis for education, for uni entry, etc, the result after decades of keeping out non bumis is the local uni suffers from falling standards///

Even if there are no foreigners, it does not mean our uni’s standards will fall. Locals still study hard. SG is very competitive and elites are handsomely rewarded.

Quoting above:
///They have free education, $500+ monthly allowances, and NO real BOND!!! Then, they take undercut us (salary-wise) for jobs which could have been ours and jack-up the housing prices some more! All with the endorsement of our gahment///.

96) creducator

Yes agree with you that our universities must be transparent about the successful scholars’ qualification, until then , we are all speculating.

////////Or are you implying that many of our local students are so super stupid to have problem entering our local uni even despite the uturn?/////////

If you read what I wrote, you will know I am not implying that..
And I did not say there was any u-turn. What u-turn are you refering to?

Students have different learning ability and some are late starters, those whose grade fail to let them enter uni, but after going thru poly, many excel in poly and they move on to uni.
Nobody is stupid.
I think it will be offensive to call them “super stupid”.

////////You must be the bright spark who got into uni without problem, or the dim spark who got into uni via uturn huh? ///////
What do you think?

97) Hopeless SG

I do not know if it is because my writing skills are so bad or your comprehension skills are, or both.
You have missed my point.

98) KopitiamApek ,
“And I did not say there was any u-turn. What u-turn are you refering to?”

I borrowed the term “uturn” from (94) iwantobe a naked undergrad, his term on your comment at (93).

“////////You must be the bright spark who got into uni without problem, or the dim spark who got into uni via uturn huh? ///////
What do you think?”

Haha… in any case, still could go to uni, unlike so many who couldn’t even when u “do not think it is harder now to get into uni”.

[i]really without a single english words ? so how do they communicate, by smoke signals?
[/i]

as mentioned before
only your words are based on facts
anybody else
just hearsays…
when you are free
if you are free
go mingle
than come back

[...] Mathia Lee: The New Racial Disharmony – Hard Hitting in the Lion City: Are We a Nation Yet? – TOC: 11 Vietnamese students awarded scholarships worth US$1.24 million – ed’s Blog: The formula for the realisation of harmony, and a bit on foreign competition – [...]

It is funny that Some Singaporeans joyfully implicating their north neighbours whenever they are talking about their own failure and think that they still reign supreme in this region whilst :

a. TH, GIC, MAS losing billions of dollars
b. Singaporeans are still dubbed as not capable of taking up the critical positions in the country hence influx of FT
c. Nick Leeson (remember him the infamous FT)
d. Brooke Business School
e, As per some of the comment above Singaporeans being denied the opportunity to study despite eligibility
f. Structured Finance Debacle

All that despite the rave of so called “World Class Standard” and the ideal of “Meritocracy”. Why cry fault when you are part of the system that cherish that ideal…

Non of that come from your north neighbour and at least your neighbour call it “it is what is ” rather than hiding behind certain ideal. Their current success of avoiding aLL of the above is through the government that was formed under NEP. Be it good or bad, their people still have the first opportunity to hold key role before anybody else. Can some of you say the same?

103) Passerby

there was no implication
you may want to re-read my post

Our points of discussion have been confirmed: “Banquet for 840 foreign workers”
http://www.todayonline.com/hotnews/EDC090727-0000054/Banquet-for-840-foreign-workers

Has any of you been given a banquet to recognised your contribution to Singapore? Or does it means your contribution is nothing?

Never mind the Banquet, the question is who paid for it and where the money come from?

Attracting oversea migrant especially those who are classed as talent had been a PAP or LKY policy going back many years. LKY believed even in those early days that SinKapore population was too small to produce enough talents to meet the country need. The early PAP pioneers were all from other parts of Asia. So this is not new but a continuation of previous policy. The difficulty in modern Sinkapore is how to keep them in the country. I am sure there are 4 years bond to tie down these students after graduation. A few might escape but the majority will serve their bond. Being a Sinkaporean did not offer any advantage when competing for a uni place. For those interested to reseach this topic further it would be a good exercise to discover that some policy had not changed even after 50 years.