The Singapore Police has replied to The Online Citizen’s queries about the presence of closed-circuit cameras (CCTVs) at Speakers Corner (Hong Lim Park). (See our article here and here.)
The following were the questions we posed to the police:
- When were the CCTVs installed?
- What purpose are they for?
- Did Nparks install the cameras or were they installed by the police?
- Does the presence of the cameras contradict the liberalisation of Speakers’ Corner rules as announced by the Prime Minister in 2008?
- What was the cost involved in the installation of the cameras?
- Who will have possession of the footage of the cameras?
- Who is in charge of monitoring the cameras?
- Does MHA feel that the presence of the CCTVs will deter Singaporeans
from holding further events there?
The police’s reply essentially is the same as the one they gave to the Today newspaper. See here.
Here is the police’s email reply to The Online Citizen:
Dear Sir
I refer to your email of 24 July 2009.
It should be noted that CCTVs are used to complement Police presence on the
ground and to project a greater sense of security. For this reason, the
Police have installed CCTVs in public areas such as Suntec and Boat Quay.
CCTVs are also installed in common areas of public housing estates as well
as multi-storey carparks. As part of an on-going initiative to enhance
security in the neighbourhoods, Police have been extending CCTV coverage to
other parts of the island. Hong Lim Park is one such area. These CCTVs do
not record audio inputs and are installed for safety and security.
Regards,
Rahemah Md Din (mdm)
for Quality Service Manager
Singapore Police Force
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basically, avoiding the important questions and giving essentially non-answers to the rest. typical.
It seems now the govt organizations seem to avoid answering questions… very bad. Cannot give answers to simple and straightforward answers. They expect people to stop pursuing the matter when they close their eyes and hide in a corner?
What the point writing to the police. They are just following order. Ask PM about this issue. See what he had to said and ask him to see his speech in NDP rally.
Typical government answer – a nonanswer! There has never been a culture of accountability in our government because of it’s “top-down” culture. They treat us like we are still uneducated and ignorant.
Civil servants should be sent for letter writing lessons and to speak the truth!
Dear Rahemah Md Din (mdm),
I’m sorry to say this, but you are part of this system everyone loves. Your reply is the reflection of the police’s intergrity. An intergrity, i’m truly not worthy to embrace.
Speaker’s Corner should be named Speakers Cornered!! LMAO…
>.<
ain’t the civil service supposed to have minimal education? how come they cannot give a direct reply?
Sure…okay
In order for the police to “project a greater sense of security”, there must first be an element of a threat to security. Is the police therefore saying that it sees HLP as a security threat?
In the areas mentioned where CCTVs are installed island-wide, one can see the clear threat which the police seek to protect. For example, multistorey carparks are more prone to vehicle vandalism and theft, and Clarke Quay and Suntec are sitting ducks for terror attacks etc.
But come on, we are talking about a park that has been set aside as a ‘Speaker’s Corner’ where a citizen is free to speak his mind. Is this a threat? If it is, then all these talks about being a freer democracy is just garbage.
seriously, there’s a whole lot of conspiracy nutjobs here.
With the camera, how would it infringe your right to speak?
Someone please enlighten me how how different is it from a policeman holding a videocam. How is it different from people using handphone cameras?
Also, the liberalisation of rules in Speaker’s corner did not gurantee that video of the event will not be taken.
The only change is the use of amplification, removing the requirement for police permit etc.
Read the following from wikipedia;
From 1 September 2008, Singapore citizens can also organise or participate in demonstrations at Speakers’ Corner without having to obtain a police permit. With this latest change in policy to allow the venue to be used freely as an outdoor demonstration site, coupled with the liberalisation on the use of sound amplification and the extension of operating hours of the venue, the Speakers’ Corner aims to address the genuine desire by some Singaporeans for lawful outdoor demonstrations and processions as a means of political expression.
wheres the freedom of speech? what kind of stupid answer is that actually?
Earlier I already commented Wong KS will say it is for the good of citizens, for security and safety. No point asking the police. They are the puppets. Of course they will say it is for security, tell me which CCTV is not for security ?? Dumb answer !!!!!!
Will people protest at Speaker’s Corner about the CCTV Cameras?
I hope that lightning will strike all the CCTVs at HLP !!! wahahhahahaha…
Then if they are being reinstated, then lightning will strike LHL, his old man, and their herd of dawgs!!! woohooo..
I’m interested to know given scarce resources, how did the police decide to give priority to installing cameras to Hong Lim Park instead of other ‘high risk areas’. Put a few outside each minister and MP’s office and residence lah.
hi Marketplace Thiologist,
“Will people protest at Speaker’s Corner about the CCTV Cameras?”
no point protesting over it, might as well protest over bigger issues closer to the heart. that way, more people turning up is indirectly sending a massage that CCTVs or not, live (at HLP) goes on!!
“For example, multistorey carparks are more prone to vehicle vandalism and theft, and Clarke Quay and Suntec are sitting ducks for terror attacks etc.”
We must salute them for coming with such a good circular supporting logic.
Likewise, the following logic will equally stick. One needs CCTVs all in the good name & for the good sake of one’s own security & safety as there is a possibility that one is prone to be robbed, murdered, raped, terrorised, etc. How can one fault them if they are so positive in looking after one’s security.
Just pray that those CCTVs are turned on when it really matters, lest some limping unknown person manages to perform some skipping performance at HLP without being noticed.
Anyway, how about non-seizable offences which involve physical contacts ??? Did we miss something ???
I think the police see the place as a threat in the following hypothetical but possible scenario.
Ten thousand people turned up, way more than expected, because a certain fantastic speaker is to speak about a certain topic endearing to many people. IT is a total surprise because nobody expected such a huge crowd. There is no law to say that you can’t have 5000 people in the park to date i think.
With such a big crowd, they get a bit emotional especially when the police say hey this place is too crowded please disperse for everybody safety as the people are spilling into Pickering Street. Then one guy in the crowd get carried away and hamtam the policeman and accuse him of denying freedom of assembly. This ignite the “passion” of more in the crowd!!, As we know, the citizens of Singapore have by now, build up a very very big pent-up emotion, ready to burst any time, it is build up resentment against you-know-who.. So in the scenario described, it could trigger a big fight. Do not underestimate the power of penned up emotions. An ordinary law abiding citizen can turn violent under certain circumstances such as above. Honestly, i think this scenario has a 50-50 chance of happening some day.
In such an uncontrollable scenario, the CCTV, will be able to provide some record of who started the incident, theoretcically it could be useful for both sides .. did i say theoretically… hmm..
There is no point arguing for the CCTV to be taken down, no point to condemn it, no point to condemn any one. What’s done cannot be undone.
Iskandai, you have just described Xinjiang where a few thousand protesters came together peacefully to protest but was met by a police force that imposed itself too strongly. We all know the rest of the story.
I get a sickening feeling that it is this sort of happenings elsewhere that is working up our government and it is now using the police force as a deterent since it cannot go back on its promise of a freer society.
Maybe they’ll planning to provide live feed of “protest” @ HLP to us in the comfort of our homes…..akin free to air channel….or worse Sing & tell’s pay per view channels….
Dear TOC, you should change the title of your article, it’s a misnomer. i don’t see any “reply” from the Police at all.
When electionn comes, those standing near the camera should have a bigger size umbrella until the activities ended. If possible, plant a group of air balloons on all the CCTVs area and let the camera see all the colorful balloons only and nothing else.
since so few dare to speak up,might as well hold concerts there, more accessible than Botanic Gardens.
i really wish those were 5 surround speakers instead (to equalise the traffic noise)!
^.^
For the birds to perch and build their nests on.
It is not cctvs or any monitoring devices that matter.
It is whether Singaporeans dare to do the rightful and lawful activities without fears.
Do we need to be fearful doing lawful activities that are approved to be carried out at HLP?
patriot
26)Patriot
I share your view.
They have enough resources to plant a human cctv if they want to.
As long as one give the correct picture and fact,why be bother by the cctv?
wah even matas are lyin to their teeth
1st they point fingers @ tree N branch department
not so special branch
tree N plant department says
where GOD?
we where have funds to place cameras
if placed cameras
crows will attempt to do the crow idols contest
than tree n branch department must buy shotgun
to shoot birds…
already catchin rats in eunos also so difficult………….
who signed the cheque to pay the contractor
btw
is this cameras diamond cladded lens?
better check
maybe whos know
durai might be the bombay contractor………….
[i]CCTVs are also installed in common areas of public housing estates as well
as multi-storey carparks.[/i]
addon part II
wu mey?
if have installed camera on multi story carparks
how come bikes arsonists not yet court?
he unplug the 13amp plug
before he light a fire?
Politically correct answer, that’s what civil service is paid for …
“In such an uncontrollable scenario, the CCTV, will be able to provide some record of who started the incident, theoretcically it could be useful for both sides .. did i say theoretically… hmm..”
Theoretically, this can happen almost at any place – with geylang area (you know i know exactly where) and some other more sleazy corners as the most likely qualifying candidates.
So are we going to see CCTVs installed in these areas. Theoretically, your above theory could be (could be ok) some theoretical BS.
“There is no law to say that you can’t have 5000 people in the park to date i think.”
“Then one guy in the crowd get carried away and hamtam the policeman and accuse him of denying freedom of assembly.”
theoretically, the one guy hamtaming the policeman may be arrested on the spot for hamtaming (seizable offence ? for hamtaming policeman) and peace under control in no time (of course theoretically also).
19) Iskandar on July 29th, 2009 7.50 pm
“There is no point arguing for the CCTV to be taken down, no point to condemn it, no point to condemn any one. What’s done cannot be undone.”
so how about taking it down then.
going by your logic, what is being taken down also cannot be undone (reinstalled) right ?
no point to condemn it, no point to condemn any one ??? now strangely in our famous context, since when there is a human face to this kind of situation for you to condemn ??? this is collective anonymity at its finest.
but the CCTVs are there to pick up some human faces right ???
19) Iskandar on July 29th, 2009 7.50 pm
}}}….. As we know, the citizens of Singapore have by now, build up a very very big pent-up emotion, ready to burst any time, it is build up resentment against you-know-who….. {{{
It’s true that Singaporeans have a huge pent-up emotion waiting to explode ANYTIME. Can installing the CCTVs help to address the problem. Is the authorities pretending that there is no pent-up feelings among the people.
Just yesterday newspapers reported that the suicide rate among males Singaporean is on the increase. Men in their 40s and 50s, in the prime of their lives (with school going children) just couldn’t coup. What are we doing about that. Where is the social safety net? The elite is just going rounds after rounds of self-edifying “we have done well” exercises. So intoxicating!
Please install more CCTVs to curb all the pent-up feelings, that will make sg an utopia.
The DEEP DEEP DISTRUSTS prevailing between the Leadership and Citizens and amongst the Citizens themselves will prove to be very damaging to the State.
Lots of damaging developments are taking place; joblessness, rising cost of living, suicide, dissatisfaction, disappointment and distrust with the Leaders, is the Leadership brushing all these aside ?
patriot
10)gemami
They are protecting the speakers corner in case the someone goes to the middle of the field and blow themselves uplah. then how? No video footage to catch the action.
the basis is, in future, whatever the government or “only-becos-of-his-dad-then-he-can-be-PM-Lee” say about no police involvement in blah blah issues, don’t believe, they can’t be trusted anyway, just like HO CHIN’s way of handling SG $$$.
Dear What’s Next
Well, i didnt say that installing the CCTV will solve the pent up emotion from exploding. The only reasonable and gentlemanly way to defuse the pent up emotion is for the incumbent to come down from their ivory towers, remove their masks, and talk nicely to we the bosses. Remember we employed them in parliament. A large chunk of tax payers money, your money, go to pay their salaries, so why are they not listening to we, the bosses. They have in my opinion become rather withdrawn, afraid, and the CCTV is a manifestation of this disease. It is in a way showing their weakness, not their strength. In my opinion, it is not 100% wrong to install the CCTV (remember i believe the scenario i painted, has a 50:50 chance of occuring) but it is not solving the real problem, that is my view.
.
Weil i did say that installing the CCTV is the incumbent”s way of providing evidence in an unbiased way (hmm..) for both camps, should the need arise such as in the hypothetical example i cited. But this is a very poor misguided action, in my opinion, it is like cutting weeds and not understanding why the weeds grow. If they want dissenters to stop making so much noise, in HLP, and in TOC and various forums, they have to face the problem squarely, instead of talking down.
I always believe that one of the differences between adult and children, is that adult hate being talked-down to, thinking adult especially hate to be insulted (direct or indirect insults) and will not forget. It is my Nationa Day Wish that the incumbent could think through and repent, On our part, we as ordinary citizen should try to look for a middle win win solution, and we should not harbour hatred against anybody for making mistakes, so long as there is a willingness to change and talk. It is a basic principle of every religion, to be humble and accept mistakes; likewise the person who had been offended, need to be gracious if there is an evidence of remorse and sincerity on the part of the offending party. Peace be on us maju-lah, Singapura god bless Singapore, or we will collapse totally soon.
Iskandar
Remember what happened at Speakers Corner during IMF Summit 2006? Maybe with these new cameras, the police don’t need to embarrass themselves by holding video cameras… Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY1ilenkPaM
Oh yes, Iskandar, they are listening to the people alright – with their eyes.
And Nick, you’re absolutely right. Blowing oneself up seems to be the latest trend these days. When caught on film, can make money by selling the video footage. We are so despearate that we need all source of revenue to repair the damage the Temasek Holdings.
“These CCTVs do not record audio inputs and are installed for safety and security”
Hello, which entity, individual or corporate, installs a CCTV system without an associated recording device? Even if they were to put a cop in front of every monitor, how is he or she going to inform his/her supervisor of a security or safety breach? Rahemah Md Din is obviously lying through her nose, or made to lie by her superiors (ironically the Quality Service Manager of the Singapore Police Force), and not doing a good job at it either.
I wonder do public servants and GLC-employed visit HLP to listen to talks?
I mean I juz wonder only. I mean so many of singaporeans work as public servants and GLC.
Can or not can?
bds#11
You may buy into the fallacy of what this govt sprouts, but not a lot of your
country folks do. Notice how they evaded answering the questions?
There are a lot more people who are easily itimidated by the presence
of these cameras or by presence of police personels, than you care to
think. Such people who are sitting on the fence would think twice about
voicing out or protesting at HLP, the only said place to allow such freedoms.
The police should give us a break. The intention of these cameras are
not to provide security (Has anybody got mugged, raped or beaten in HLP
before?)
These cameras are there to provide an objective above anything else
-ITIMIDATION.
And certainly this govt is not known for being benign to oppositon.
[i]bachinko on July 30th, 2009 11.51 pm I wonder do public servants and GLC-employed visit HLP to listen to talks?
I mean I juz wonder only. I mean so many of singaporeans work as public servants and GLC.
Can or not can?
[/i]
many many civil servants
upon reachin home just sigh
they too have bills to pay
they too have grownup kids to maintain
they too knows their cpfs retirement funds just vanished
butt
worst of all
they got to shutthefartup
if they want to maintain their ricebowls
Agongkia Post #27:
it is my belief that active opposition politicians and activists are monitored by human cctvs from time to time. This should be a very normal practice in any country.
Commonsense will tell that surveillance is most effective when trained officers are doing the monitorings. To think that surveillance/monitoring is carried out only in HLP is not an accurate reading.
And to know that surveillance is ongoing wherever and whenever it is intended by the Authority means the fear of CCTVs (Devices) at HLP is unneccessary. Though some(not all) maybe intimidated, I am of the opinion that people/citizens should not fear when they do not carry out any illegal/unlawful activity. HLP is designated for activities that are approved by the Authority, for members of the public to meet/gather for participations of the activities or just to see/listen whats going on there. And afterall, that’s a park for people to use whether or not they are there for the activities.
I was there on few occassions, sometimes to watch the activities and sometimes just to laze around. There were occassions that I felt shadowy people around, I maybe guilty of been over suspicious. BUT, as we know, so far nothing untowards had happened and honestly, anything can happen to anyone beyond and outside HLP after the activities there, who is to say anything ?
Thank You for the interaction !
patriot
#42 Lee:
” There are a lot more people who are easily itimidated by the presence
of these cameras or by presence of police personels, than you care to
think.”
I personally feel that singaporeans are very different than foreigners (any other country) in this aspect. Even if cameras are installed in Hide park, I doubt strongly the 1st world people there will be detered or intimidated so some reason. Prolly cultural or nurtural.
Show me an example where singaporeans dared to Challenge publicly.
#45 Lee Yu Wah
Exactly my point.
In first world democracies, people don’t care two hoots if there were CCTVs, riot
police or cannons aiming at them if they were out protesting or speaking their
minds . They know their rights and have no qualms about challenging the authority on any issues publicly.
Here, we have seen how govt critics and dissidents were treated, opposition
leaders like JBJ, TLH or CSJ were hounded that people fear in speaking up against the govt is very real. I am afraid most of us were cowed into
submission to authority.
With the help more laws (websters should redefine the meaning of
“assembly” ), the intention of this Govt is not liberalising the political space, but
to stifle it.
Yes, CCTVs in HLP may help to provide security, but we all know its not the
main reason,
And why only HLP ? why not ECP or AMK Park?
Leong Sze Hian has issued a well-written appeal for them to be taken down.
You better watch what you say. They are not stupid.