Excerpts from the Straits Times:
PRICES of Housing Board flats have reached a historical record, rising 1.4 per cent in the second quarter this year, reversing a first-quarter dip of 0.8 per cent.
Fresh data released from the HDB on Friday shows the resale price index rising to 140.2 – beating the previous record set in the fourth quarter of last year when it hit just over 139.
The figures have come in slightly higher than flash estimates released earlier this month which showed that prices rose 1.2 per cent.
Sales of HDB resale flats also surged 58 per cent, reflecting improved market sentiment, to reach 10,184 transactions in the second quarter, compared to 6,446 in the first quarter.
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#23) gemami
‘ What is the definition for ‘affordable’, anyone?’
……………………………………………………..
I suspect the govt by using the word ‘affordable’ is trying to price the HDB flats as high as possible to control the amount of extra cash available to the people after factoring in all their basic expenses. If flats are priced too low like in the early days when a 5-room flat in Toa Payoh was selling at $22K, the people and not the govt will pocket the profits when it was later sold at $500K.
By making and keeping more profits to themselves, the govt then will be in a better position to offer housing subsidies to those in the lower income groups who would be beholden to the PAP.
has my hdb 5 rm gone up to $500k?
praise pap!lol
Some Singaporeans have the mistaken idea that rising flat prices is a good thing because:
-they can profit from this greater asset value
-they can rent rooms for higher prices
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW IS:
-they can’t sell the flat, make a profit and enjoy the profit like PRs who move away. Citizens still have to buy ANOTHER flat to live in.
(a)The new place will cost you MORE, unless you downgrade and downgrade. (I have seen some seniors move from 4 to 3 to 2 rooms. It’s sad for them to literally eat away their houses like this.)
(b) The new place will be SMALLER. Ever noticed the HDB flat sizes are shrinking and shrinking? The executive flat is not offered anymore. Only the older flats are larger, but these flats do not have much of their 99 years left anymore.
(c) Even if existing flat owners claim to have profited,
-what if the bubble bursts and the owner falls into negative assets territory? You think the FTs and PRs will stay as Singapore’s economy plunges? When they exit, the SG property mkt will collapse.
-the housing led inflation in Singapore makes everything more expensive. The inflation will eat away the gains
-what about the kids? My parents worked for 5 years and paid for their flat. I need around 20 years. The next generation will have to work until they are 69 perhaps to pay for their flats.
Face it. We are getting screwed in every possible way.
If 80% of people own HDB flat, HDB prices rising should be good news. Why is there so many complaints? Are these the people who missed the boat? If HDB prices drop, 80% of the people will complaint. That will be even worse. So I guess a small number of people can’t afford HDB is better than 80% losing money on their HDB. Sounds logical?
The property inflation has forced couples to delay marriage and bind them with loans that can last as long as 30 years. Our low fertility rate, low standards of life, stressful and long hours is actually fabricated by PAP the biggest robber landlord who thrives on economic rent.
Painful adjustment is needed for the sake of our offspring. Better to sacrifice the landlords who is older rather than mortaging the future of our children
#53
Excellent points….when will Sporean wake up from their rat races?…..remember the CLOB fiasco….lehman brother’s mini bonds fiasco. Gahmen wash hands only. Everyone wants to get rich superfast and end up kena conned. So, that’s why I’m happily staying put in my 4-room flat for the last 15 years even though I could have made money selling it. So even if prices go up or down in the property market, remember the only ones getting rich is the gahmen (GST, stamp duty, HDB admin fees, etc), property agents and the movers!
HDB has realized that to keep market prices high it needs to increase the pool of PRs. Thus the govt decision to let in tens of thousands of foreigners for white-collar jobs at local/foreign companies and give them PR within a year or two.
There are thousands of PRs/PR couples on P1 and P2 passes earning 5-figure montly household incomes. It makes sense for them to invest in a flat as the monthly outgo would be much less than if they rented a place. Also, the flat’s value will only rise in time and they can sell it whenever they decide to move beyond Singapore.
If the household income is 10K plus, setting aside 2K for home loan is not difficult. Which means 500K flats are not out of reach.
<>
It’s a win-win situation for HDB, the govt and the PRs. As for the citizens….
To: 54) Confused
To answer your question, let me ask you: “I give you a million dollars, but I give the same amount to everyone else. Are you any better off? Are you richer?”
The housing prices are sky-rocketing, YET the wages are depressed. (Both can be attributed to the floods of FTs and PRs.) As this happens, you will find yourself poorer and poorer as inflation eat away your hard-earned savings.
Many of the land reserve our government have, is acquire forcefully from people in name of national development. Yet its is now sell back to people with a mark up. Even the most shamelss thugs would not do that.
I am pessimistic about changing the situation. First, our government has prove their stupidity by losing so much monies in their investment. They have to plug the hole somehow. Its inevitable that they are going to vampire us dry and property is the best way.
Apres moi le deluge.
#####-what about the kids? My parents worked for 5 years and paid for their flat. I need around 20 years. The next generation will have to work until they are 69 perhaps to pay for their flats.#####
you have overlooked the great financial transfer. zillions of dollars of real estate will be inherited by the following generation – from parents to their kids. this will help to defray the next generation costs in owning their next home though prices maybe higher.
since 90% homes here are owned, looks like many will reap from their parents!
Y’day and Sat, I went for viewing few flats in Yishun. I saw around 10 flats. They are selling like hot cakes. For eg. the open house was from 2-4pm. It was sold when I went there at 2.30pm. When I enquired I came to know that it was closed for 30k COV. This is crazy 30k above for 3rm flat. The market is chaotic now and there is speculation that the valuation will increase again. Remember the Valuation was high for last year and came down for this year. No idea who is propagating that the valuation will go up again. Lot of people are buying on the spot.
Majority of the buyers are SPRs, from Philippines, India, China and also i saw few HK PRs. Seeing from the response, I think it will continue for this for few coming weeks. I also think that after seeing the current market conditions lot of people will want to sell their flats in coming few weeks. I think there will be a point in next few weeks or months that there will be more flats to sell and less buyers. As majority of buyers would have bought it by then.
I think the market will go down after 2-3 months.
To 60) cashcow:
That is only true for some groups.
-Many older folks have to keep downgrading and give-up their flats to make ends meet. Hence nothing for the next generation.
-When the kids or grandkids inherit, the flats won’t have much of their 99 years left. Value should fall. HDB is NOT freehold
-Inflation of other stuff is likely to offset gains (inheritance).
Hence I am skeptical if the next generation would be better off.
61) MT
///I also think that after seeing the current market conditions lot of people will want to sell their flats in coming few weeks….I think the market will go down after 2-3 months.////
I am more pessimistic. It is not hard to hold on to flats. Installments are affordable in the shorter term of 3 years or less. Many flat owners will hold on in anticipation of higher prices. I doubt prices will fall.
I also heard that the number of PRs into Singapore this year is MUCH higher than last year. They are not getting any lesser in numbers. Many of the existing PRs are calling for their spouses or siblings to charge into SG so they can buy HDB flats too. EVERY one of them do not want to miss the boat.
No matter the prices, it is still more viable to buy a flat then rent for PRs.
As for citizens…..well, shit happens…..sian~~
when shit happens make sure your home is well secured to prevent break-ins!!
those in landed property better install electric fences arh!!
(+.+)
With cash over valuations of $30k, I ask myself
ARE the government “subsidies” of living near your parents, 1st time buyers, etc even amounting to anything?
Can I install an electric fence around Singapore to ward off the foreigners?
a “hint” that rising prices is a big scary bubble that will burst sooner or later…
in the article above:
“Sales of HDB resale flats also surged 58%, reflecting improved MARKET SENTIMENT… ”
any lobang for shatter-proof glass? when things get messy, i hope my windows will keep trouble out…
-.-”
you think market will go down?
fat hope!lol
if home prices go down, pap will also go down! lol
HDB is private housing in “public” housing disguise. In my opinion, buy only when you can afford it. If you decide to use it for investment.
Like any other commodity, real estate comes with its’ associated risks – Supply and demand cycle. Average HDB prices did dropped by 30% or more in 1997 when the economic crisis hit singapore; but the prices of property has recovered in recent years and perhaps higher than in 1997 in absolute figures; but the value of the dollar has dropped significantly as compared to 1997 or earlier. Hence, whether it’s a real gain is subjective.
In basic economics, buy high and sell higher is a risky venture. To win, you have to have guts, foresight and luck. I agree with Obvious Truth as follows:
49) Obvious Truth on July 26th, 2009 10.32 pm
“This bubble–like all property bubble elsewhere -will burst one day.”
If you play the game, you have to understand the consequences; but whether a “public” housing scheme should be use for investment/speculation is a separate discussion altogether.
SG marriage rates and birth rates are down, it is obvious that HDB prices are escalating due to the influx of foreigners.
I saw a NDP poster at the bus-stop today:
“ONE united people…OUR home…OUR Singapore”
I shook my head in disgust.
For how long can the rally last?
Does this indicative of the Date that men of white face (not clowns) dread most?
The rally gonna last as long as there is income inequality. People whined simply because they are not on board in banks and civil service or not borned with a silver spoon. Actually those rich gets richer now as they are able to service loans by rent.
I do not see an end to income inequality anytime soon. The government will keep on overpaying civil servant sucking us dry until everyone go broke. We are already running a deficit.
They will not compromise abit on the leeches system that profits them.
What we need now is a regime change.
Ecrase l’infame.
50) kan sei hoong on July 26th, 2009 10.47 pm
but my camp mates say ’someone’ will not let it burst. I wonder what he meant.
has singapore property bubble ever burst?
Yes of course it has. In 1997 property prices in Singapore reached its peak and prices plunged and remain soft for the whole period of 1998 to early 2007. I guess you are young so you have not really felt or seen it happened. My good friend brought a freehold condo in Bukit Timah area in 1997 for $890k; it plunged to its lowest around $500k+ and at the peak in 2007, price reached 700k+.
Many ignorant people said to me several years ago that the Govt will never let the property prices drop until after the IR has been built. I guess many of you had heard this one. What happened? in late 2008 and early 2009; prime property prices dropped by 40%. Believe those who tell you the bubble will burst. Its just a million dollar question when.
people are thinking extreme – either keep rising without restrain or falling without a bottom.
think….moderate and sustainable growth. bursting an asset beyond recovery is like bursting your CPF or rendering it to zero benefit.
your home IS your the other “CPF” to fall back on or social safety net. your home empowers the rulers. the gahmen will be foolish to let it sink!
hi Obsurf,
“your home empowers the rulers. the gahmen will be foolish to let it sink!”
the question is how long before it sinks?
already, there are desperate measures to discourage people from speaking openly…
,hi min,
i think your last statement is two separate issues.
generally, majority will not sell their homes at a loss. if you are prepared to pay today’s prices for your home, you better have the resources to ride through the troughs and sell , if need be, only when prices recovers – history has shown it will recover.
that means, majority of the buyers will have to buy high which explains why most transactions occur during recovery of home prices.
the developers are a case in pt. most hold out till property recovery before launching new homes and their ventures are almost if not all, profitable – prices keep going up.
hi Obsurf,
actually, based on market sentiments, i doubt, many have the resources to ride through the troughs if its a prolonged 1. shit does happen. herd mentality is at work here. it also depends on the ratio of local vs PR vs foreign buyers. these days anyone can just view a showflat, there are few invites-only launch.
yes, developers have more ability to hold out because they (mostly) are more well insulated against such financial turmoil.
Gahmen should allow PRs to buy, say units over 20 years old – that is to help the old cash out. Not 5 year-old units wich is in direct competition with our younger people who have either just got married or starting a family.
Being a Singapore citizen, I strongly felt that I am betrayed by the Singapore Government. As a citizen, since I was a child, I had been taught to love Singapore and defend the country because this is our home. As Singaporeans, we have to serve NS and attend ICT every year and pay for income tax and GST to fulfill our duties and responsibilities as a Singapore citizen.
After working for more than 13 years, and being eligible to purchase a HDB flat, I suddenly found that I cannot even afford to buy a 3-room HDB flat because I am not eligible for a HDB loan and grant because my pay is more than $3,000. As single, I am also not allowed to buy a new flat. If I were to take up a bank loan to purchase a resale flat, I have to pay 5% of the flat in cash, other than the COV. So, if I do not have enough cash, how to purchase a resale flat?
Even if I were to get married to be eligible for the HDB loan and grant, I also need cash to pay for the wedding expenses, dinner, house renovation, etc. Again, no cash how to get married? So, without a house and a family, where is the home I am taught to defend since I am a child?
With the influx of foreign talents and PRs pushing up the HDB resale market and pressing down the salary range, I felt that Singapore is not worth defending anymore, because Singapore is no longer the home of Singaporeans. Hence, what’s the purpose of wasting the time of Singaporeans serving NS to defend a Singapore that has been ‘colonised’ by foreign talents and PRs, who are taking away the houses and jobs of Singaporeans? Why should Singaporeans lay down their lives to defend a Singapore that is a home to foreign talents and PRs?
Moreover, unlike the SAF regulars whose salary are given a premium above market rate and paid a large sum of money when they retired from SAF at the age of 50, a NSman is not pay by the SAF to defend Singapore. So, why should a NSman laid down his life for Singapore when in peacetime, the SAF regulars are paid more than a normal NSman?
78) Betrayed
Talk to your MP. Election coming…. I hope they can help you. But MPS is a long wait, but if the MP can help you, it’s worth waiting for; and no harm trying. At most, you waste a night.
78) Betrayed
Oh, housing is a big investment – and don’t hold me responsible if the price is too high and the market crash later on. You have to do your homework to decide when is a good time to enter into property market even if it’s only for having a roof over the head.
The above comments reflect our people’s voices towards the rise in HDB prices…. The questions is why allow foreigners to buy govt build apartments?
I know our country have to be run like a business to stay on top..
But please spare a thought for our young ones….. 500k for a five room flat is a life long burden for many young couples…
I urge our govt to protect us…..
We would fight for our country and die if we have to……. Be fair to our fellow citizens, protect them as we would for our country.. I think that should be one of our elected parties’ the top agendas…
If foreigners can only buy private homes and charged them higher taxes it can protect our own people. And we can make more out of that.. If we want foreign talents/investors why not choose the rich… not those we can only afford Govt build housing, they buy it and profit from our fellow people…
There we have a win win situation… I love my country
The statistics of population in Singapore extracted from 1 of the wedsite shows that 34.6% of the population in Singapore at 2008 are foreigners:
2008 4.8394 million (3.1644 SC / 0.4782 SPR & 1.1967 foreigners)
Hence, this shows that Singapore is a home for the foreigners. Hence, why waste time serving NS and defending Singapore when Singaporean don’t have a land to defend at all?
Something is really wrong with the Singapore government.
44) KopitiamApek
Who wouldn’t want his cake and eat it?
Sad thing was he lost his landed property in the process and he is not exactly wrong in the questions that he raised.
Also, for those of you who thinks that HDB doesn’t make any money from raising resale flat price, please wake up.
It charges 2% for every resale home.
Can you tell me what the 2% is for?
It already charges another sum for all the so-called legal fees.
So, if home prices go up, the 2% this year will be more than the 2% last year right? for every flat at least.
How could it be that HDB is not profiting from these resales? All the more when it does not need to do anything to these flats.
I was at an HDB open house during the weekend.
30 different groups of people came for viewing despite $40k over valuation!
More than half were foreigners!!!
See this: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific_business/view/447911/1/.html
Seems like Singaporean’s flat prices are same as Beijing in the way prices have far exceeded affordability for locals
I agree with 82) Betrayed. If we can’t even buy a home in our own country, why should we bother to defend what we don’t have.
DO YOU WANT TO RISK YOUR LIFE AS A SOLDIER TO PROTECT FOREIGNERS’ PROPERTY?
I agree with 82) Betrayed
If I can’t buy a home in my own country. Why would I want to serve NS to protect what isn’t mine?
I ask myself: “Do I really want to risk my life and fight to protect foreigners’ property?” The answer is simple. I am not stupid.
Remember what happened when when the japanese invaded? The British ran away but returned to claim SG when the Japs lost. The nerve of them.
Imagine if SG is attacked tomorrow. Foreigners will stay? 34% of the SG population (foreigners) will run away I tell you.
Imagine we fight with our lives to fend for ourselves and win. Then the foreigners come back and say “Thanks for protecting our HDB flats with your lives. Really sorry hor you lost your lives and limb. Tough luck!!”
It is REALLY hard to love SG or be willing to lay down your life for your country in my homeless plight. As a POW, they at least give you food and accommodation free.
Sighs, I am exaggerating a bit…just too upset with SG, PAP, HDB… now as it is. I am not Foreign Talent but no need to treat me like shit. At least give the shit a shit-hole to stay.
PAP has to sell us exorbitant property to so that we work very hard 24×7. This is because all our elite’s are not able to give quality management to compete.
Put it this way, give the same hardware, the French or German are able to give their workers 30 days off per year, and 35 hr work week.
Because of the idiotic top down autocratic style, Singapore will never have the productivity of European and we have to compensate by working hard.
A large number of western elite create wealth by IT, scientific advances etc… Almost 90% of eastern elite tycoon are property developer. Its the same in HK China and SG.
Because they are stupid, they have to plunder. They cannot think of better way to accumulate wealth.
Well, does a strong and large SAF necessarily bring security to Singapore and serve as a deterrent against invasion? As Singapore does not have the strategic depth, a large SAF organised based on an offensive posture and strategy (or ”
forward defence strategy”) created the risks that a war between Singapore and its neighbours may be sparked off in times of crisis due to military necessity of 1st strike.
With the military necessity of committing the 1st strike in the event of crisis, will Singaporeans become the invaders or the invaded in times of war with its neighbours? Even if Singapore really win the war militarily, can Singapore survive politically and economically in the aftermath of the war, when foreign talents and foreign investors divest and flee elsewhere?
Hence, if Singapore CANNOT survive a war, why bother to spend so much of Singaporeans’ time and money in the SAF and let the foreign talents and PR owned the HDB flats? Why fight to protect the HDB of foreigners and PR?
Actually I think the gov does not care whether we have soldiers or not.
Whether SG is protected or not does not matter to them.
At their age-group, they will soon retire with the multi-million dollar savings and migrate to a better county.
The only smart thing to do is to follow their example: make as much as we can, while we can, and run.
The government says we can’t reduce the number of foreigners during the recession as that would “send the wrong signal” that we don’t welcome foreigners.
I don’t welcome foreigners. Any locals do?
So far, the government is sending every signal to tell locals that we are not welcomed in our own country. Thanks a lot.
Agree. Actually, I pitied all those who celebrate the National Day, still living in the fantasy of Singapore being their homeland. The people who asked them to love their country is actually the people who is sucking their money and will be the people 1st to run if Singapore goes to war.
I think Singapore should have a Foreign Talent to be the Prime Minister to govern Singapore. This will give PAP some competition
To Betrayed:
The SAF is not meant to fight any war, it is only a deterrent , mainly to handle löcal unrest , if ever, within the singapore populace. In war, again if ever, singapore’s biggest problem will be collateral damage caused by falling buildings not the enemies themselves directly. The idea that there are a lot of foreigners here will deter any ‘would be’ aggressor. Nobody wants another ‘Kuwait- Iraq’ episode. SAF is purely a psychological weapon. I don’t believe any singaporean will ever be called to fight for singapore. However, if called, run away, as you said don’t defend foreigner properties!
Understood. So our SAF’s main purpose is to target our locals. How ironic…and sad…
To: Nuclearblue
Does having a strong SAF as a form of Deterrent strategy necessary bring security to Singapore? By having a strong SAF, our neighbour may feel threaten by Singapore and build a stronger armed forces themselves, thereby leading to an arms race which is more destabilising to the region.
With the large number of foreigners living in Singapore, they may be Fifth Column in the event of war. Hence, the threat to Singapore does not necessarily come in the form of military. They are now coming in the form ‘Fifth Column’ and through economic means, and colonising Singapore by taking away the HDB houses and jobs of Singaporeans.
Monopoly of a market by a single supplier on housing, the basic needs of a family is truly shameful. Most government would worked hard to make it affordable to all its citizen. I must say it is unquely Sinkapore where a ruling parties see that responsibilty as a money making device. The citizen are on their own and had to compete with imported FT with no NS responsibity and yet enjoy many of the benefits that Sinkaporean had to earn. Somehow this government had forgetten who elected them and why they are there for. It seemed they had taken for granted that will continue to rule forever. Singaporean must wake up and take back their right as a citizen.
To George:
As a ns serving singapore born citizen, in my 51 years of life, I had the opportunity of voting only once. The rest of the elections were walkovers. I think a lot of singaporeans are like me. We did not elect the government. The lack of opposition is singapore’s main problem. How many people will stand up as opposition candidates when you are liable to be intimidated, humiliated and sued to bankruptcy.
To George:
As a ns serving singapore born citizen, in my 51 years of life, I had the opportunity of voting only once. The rest of the elections were walkovers. I think a lot of singaporeans are like me. We did not elect the government. The lack of opposition is singapore’s main problem. How many people will stand up as opposition candidates when you are liable to be intimidated, humiliated and sued to bankruptcy.
Seriously will anyone think that the government will allow SAF to defence Singapore and destroy the wonderful pretty product of Singapore INc ? Remember our government echelons are money-loving clowns who doesn’t give a damn on citizens.
My opinions based on observation and characteristics of the clown:
Singapore will never have a war even if it feel threaten. If Singapore has high probability of losing end, the clowns will just give in to the enemies avoid damaging Singapore as long as the enemies promise the clown wealth and retain their status of governing.
Pappy has betrayed Singapore by selling national assets without asking citizens, why do you think that they will do that again after all it is all about money and power to them.