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	<title>Comments on: Police seemed ignorant about law governing indoor forums</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/</link>
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		<title>By: twisterx</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-87632</link>
		<dc:creator>twisterx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-87632</guid>
		<description>Actually...

I can&#039;t help but comment that sometimes, we shouldn&#039;t treat certain segments of civil servants (such as the police) as &quot;enemies&quot;. I mean, we have all gone through NS (I assume) and know rather well that the &quot;bottom&quot; have to do what the &quot;top&quot; directs. Sometimes, we call that &quot;LL&quot;. Even within the civil service, there are &quot;grades&quot; differentiating the &quot;upper&quot; and &quot;lower&quot; ranks (i.e. from Ministers to Corporals). I suppose the &quot;lower&quot; ranks face pressure to &quot;do something&quot; as well. 

I&#039;m not speaking for anyone in particular, but I&#039;ve always had the tingling feeling that the person (police officer in this case) may not have agreed or supported what he/she was directed to do at all. But &quot;LL&quot; must do.

In conclusion, when we refer to &quot;civil servants&quot;, I suppose it&#039;s only fair to differentiate between the &quot;high value&quot; (million-dollar positions) and &quot;lower value&quot; (2.5k-earning Corporal). Also, in civil disobedience (if chosen to do), it may be too nitty-gritty to be going against &quot;minor&quot; procedural issues such as, in this case, a police request. It may well be more worthwhile to co-operate (after all, are you doing any wrong? If not, why not comply?) and then let the true issues (could be taxes, ERP, cost of living, etc) take the centre stage. That&#039;s a more mature approach to political discussion. Don&#039;t go after the &quot;prawn soldiers and prawn generals&quot;... Take on the big boys on the big issues.

Just my 2 cents. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually&#8230;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but comment that sometimes, we shouldn&#8217;t treat certain segments of civil servants (such as the police) as &#8220;enemies&#8221;. I mean, we have all gone through NS (I assume) and know rather well that the &#8220;bottom&#8221; have to do what the &#8220;top&#8221; directs. Sometimes, we call that &#8220;LL&#8221;. Even within the civil service, there are &#8220;grades&#8221; differentiating the &#8220;upper&#8221; and &#8220;lower&#8221; ranks (i.e. from Ministers to Corporals). I suppose the &#8220;lower&#8221; ranks face pressure to &#8220;do something&#8221; as well. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not speaking for anyone in particular, but I&#8217;ve always had the tingling feeling that the person (police officer in this case) may not have agreed or supported what he/she was directed to do at all. But &#8220;LL&#8221; must do.</p>
<p>In conclusion, when we refer to &#8220;civil servants&#8221;, I suppose it&#8217;s only fair to differentiate between the &#8220;high value&#8221; (million-dollar positions) and &#8220;lower value&#8221; (2.5k-earning Corporal). Also, in civil disobedience (if chosen to do), it may be too nitty-gritty to be going against &#8220;minor&#8221; procedural issues such as, in this case, a police request. It may well be more worthwhile to co-operate (after all, are you doing any wrong? If not, why not comply?) and then let the true issues (could be taxes, ERP, cost of living, etc) take the centre stage. That&#8217;s a more mature approach to political discussion. Don&#8217;t go after the &#8220;prawn soldiers and prawn generals&#8221;&#8230; Take on the big boys on the big issues.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents. :)</p>
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		<title>By: The Singapore Daily &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Roundup: Week 28</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-86507</link>
		<dc:creator>The Singapore Daily &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Roundup: Week 28</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-86507</guid>
		<description>[...] Operation Spectrum Open Forum - Only &#8220;objective&#8221; and &#8220;factual&#8221; political films please, we&#8217;re Singaporeans: Police retracts licence request after Minister queried - TOC: Police seemed ignorant about law governing indoor forums [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Operation Spectrum Open Forum &#8211; Only &#8220;objective&#8221; and &#8220;factual&#8221; political films please, we&#8217;re Singaporeans: Police retracts licence request after Minister queried &#8211; TOC: Police seemed ignorant about law governing indoor forums [...]</p>
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		<title>By: naughtyman</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-86408</link>
		<dc:creator>naughtyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-86408</guid>
		<description>What they might be interested now is not how to secure your job but theirs.
How to play sure win tactics without losing face.

By bringing FT is to keep your social class fighting among yourself for food.
The King will decide how to distribute budget when time is right.
Of course, the king will have the most say on how much he will receive.

England, France history provide good lessons for me to understand what
the heck is going on. Now the landlord and the king win. One day, when
everyone fires up, someone will be definitely be set on fire.

Mayb HC will be end up as drink Bloody Mary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What they might be interested now is not how to secure your job but theirs.<br />
How to play sure win tactics without losing face.</p>
<p>By bringing FT is to keep your social class fighting among yourself for food.<br />
The King will decide how to distribute budget when time is right.<br />
Of course, the king will have the most say on how much he will receive.</p>
<p>England, France history provide good lessons for me to understand what<br />
the heck is going on. Now the landlord and the king win. One day, when<br />
everyone fires up, someone will be definitely be set on fire.</p>
<p>Mayb HC will be end up as drink Bloody Mary.</p>
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		<title>By: angelfire</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85788</link>
		<dc:creator>angelfire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85788</guid>
		<description>Will be great having NMPs who can speak out for the masses. Unfortunately those who do so are condemned by both the perm MP lackeys and dubious cristian fundamentalists with vested interest in the government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will be great having NMPs who can speak out for the masses. Unfortunately those who do so are condemned by both the perm MP lackeys and dubious cristian fundamentalists with vested interest in the government.</p>
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		<title>By: AngelVision</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85578</link>
		<dc:creator>AngelVision</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85578</guid>
		<description>The way to deal with these b****s in these cases is:

Someone else should organise a forum to discuss the how good the SG govt is to see if the police still ask the organiser to furnish the police info such as names of speakers and format.

Someone else should organise exactly the same event as Seelan but promote and screen a pro-LKY film this time.  Just pick a recording of any old speech or speeches and shoot sceneries of SG.  See if the police bother him in the same way, using the &#039;screening of unlicensed video&#039; act.

If answer is obvious they won&#039;t, what does it say?  If the police do not bother them in different circumstances, then I wonder what charges will be brought against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way to deal with these b****s in these cases is:</p>
<p>Someone else should organise a forum to discuss the how good the SG govt is to see if the police still ask the organiser to furnish the police info such as names of speakers and format.</p>
<p>Someone else should organise exactly the same event as Seelan but promote and screen a pro-LKY film this time.  Just pick a recording of any old speech or speeches and shoot sceneries of SG.  See if the police bother him in the same way, using the &#8216;screening of unlicensed video&#8217; act.</p>
<p>If answer is obvious they won&#8217;t, what does it say?  If the police do not bother them in different circumstances, then I wonder what charges will be brought against them.</p>
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		<title>By: monopoLee</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85534</link>
		<dc:creator>monopoLee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85534</guid>
		<description>&quot; I spoke with a wide spectrum of singaporeans who are not affected much by the recession and they think there is no recession &quot;......... If only  PM Lee thought of using this statement to declare Singapore was never in a recession.

i don&#039;t think the men-in-blue are ignorant of the law, they are acting under orders.
i agree with what   &quot;Shadow &quot; wrote, there will come a time the same despicable tactics will be used on the previous master and frankly, deserve much much more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; I spoke with a wide spectrum of singaporeans who are not affected much by the recession and they think there is no recession &#8220;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; If only  PM Lee thought of using this statement to declare Singapore was never in a recession.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t think the men-in-blue are ignorant of the law, they are acting under orders.<br />
i agree with what   &#8220;Shadow &#8221; wrote, there will come a time the same despicable tactics will be used on the previous master and frankly, deserve much much more.</p>
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		<title>By: Yang</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85531</link>
		<dc:creator>Yang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85531</guid>
		<description>Why afraid of Police? They are drawing salary from us taxpayer. They are to serve us, not threatening us. Don&#039;t worry if you have the strong ground to defend your rights. Get the the name of the officer and make a report to the Perm. Sec. and they will know who is their bosses. Always remember, if you want to resolve any govnt.department matters fast. Go to the top level. You will see a different way they used o solve the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why afraid of Police? They are drawing salary from us taxpayer. They are to serve us, not threatening us. Don&#8217;t worry if you have the strong ground to defend your rights. Get the the name of the officer and make a report to the Perm. Sec. and they will know who is their bosses. Always remember, if you want to resolve any govnt.department matters fast. Go to the top level. You will see a different way they used o solve the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Orlando Chin</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85514</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85514</guid>
		<description>TrueBlood Singaporean on July 7th, 2009 10.36 am 

&quot;Singaprorean PMETS pls vote in a GRC during the next Elections no matter what!

Don’t believe those crap NMP Scheme! It is not an representative of alternative singapore politics!&quot;

Many being fed , as in salaried, may not feel the same as you do, fortunately or unfortunately. 

I spoke with a wide spectrum of singaporeans who are not affected much by the recession and they think there is no recession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TrueBlood Singaporean on July 7th, 2009 10.36 am </p>
<p>&#8220;Singaprorean PMETS pls vote in a GRC during the next Elections no matter what!</p>
<p>Don’t believe those crap NMP Scheme! It is not an representative of alternative singapore politics!&#8221;</p>
<p>Many being fed , as in salaried, may not feel the same as you do, fortunately or unfortunately. </p>
<p>I spoke with a wide spectrum of singaporeans who are not affected much by the recession and they think there is no recession.</p>
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		<title>By: socrates</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85512</link>
		<dc:creator>socrates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85512</guid>
		<description>Thanks for alerting us to SKH&#039;s blog. No point going into SKH&#039;s blog. His right to use a blog to propagate his ideas and thoughts is forfeited &#039;cause he made a police report. Should have use his blog to defend himself first!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for alerting us to SKH&#8217;s blog. No point going into SKH&#8217;s blog. His right to use a blog to propagate his ideas and thoughts is forfeited &#8217;cause he made a police report. Should have use his blog to defend himself first!</p>
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		<title>By: Orlando Chin</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85510</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85510</guid>
		<description>Well done Mr See!  Many do not know also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Mr See!  Many do not know also.</p>
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		<title>By: mad93</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85503</link>
		<dc:creator>mad93</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85503</guid>
		<description>I think this is too much, as if PAP owns this country and can do whatever they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is too much, as if PAP owns this country and can do whatever they want.</p>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85480</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85480</guid>
		<description>Police harrassment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Police harrassment.</p>
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		<title>By: Retiree</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85476</link>
		<dc:creator>Retiree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85476</guid>
		<description>The police seems to have nothing else better to do but to instil fear into people. Honestly, I am very very disappointed. Since the PM has already said that no permit is required why did the police still insist on it ?. Kiasuism and unprofessional are the words I would use to describe them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The police seems to have nothing else better to do but to instil fear into people. Honestly, I am very very disappointed. Since the PM has already said that no permit is required why did the police still insist on it ?. Kiasuism and unprofessional are the words I would use to describe them.</p>
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		<title>By: anakin</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85453</link>
		<dc:creator>anakin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85453</guid>
		<description>another example of laws inacted to combat terrorism but used to by ruling establishments to clamp down on free speech. So many countries are doing this. Blank cheque given by the former Bush adminstration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another example of laws inacted to combat terrorism but used to by ruling establishments to clamp down on free speech. So many countries are doing this. Blank cheque given by the former Bush adminstration.</p>
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		<title>By: TrueBlood Singaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85444</link>
		<dc:creator>TrueBlood Singaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85444</guid>
		<description>Singaprorean PMETS pls vote in a GRC during the next Elections no matter what!

Don&#039;t believe those crap NMP Scheme! It is not an representative of alternative singapore politics!

We can&#039;t be like Milk Cows Everytime while the top just Laugh the Way to the Banks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singaprorean PMETS pls vote in a GRC during the next Elections no matter what!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t believe those crap NMP Scheme! It is not an representative of alternative singapore politics!</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t be like Milk Cows Everytime while the top just Laugh the Way to the Banks!</p>
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		<title>By: Shadow</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85431</link>
		<dc:creator>Shadow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85431</guid>
		<description>The law, as administered by the police, is very clear. Certain politicians want to cycle in a public park in the name of a public event linked to a ruling party; that&#039;s ok with the police. 

But the threat that a non-ruling party poses if their politicians cycle in a public park in a family day linked to that non-ruling party is SO serious that not only is their event refused a permit by the police, even a minister has to weigh in with a reason, &quot;what if members of the public stop these jolly cycling oppo politicians and have a heated debate with them?? That&#039;ll bring down the country!!!&quot;. 

Enough tongue-in-cheek. To the men in white: the day will come when the boys in blue WILL heed the call of another master, and then the dogs will gladly bite the hands that USED to feed them. For your reflection, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The law, as administered by the police, is very clear. Certain politicians want to cycle in a public park in the name of a public event linked to a ruling party; that&#8217;s ok with the police. </p>
<p>But the threat that a non-ruling party poses if their politicians cycle in a public park in a family day linked to that non-ruling party is SO serious that not only is their event refused a permit by the police, even a minister has to weigh in with a reason, &#8220;what if members of the public stop these jolly cycling oppo politicians and have a heated debate with them?? That&#8217;ll bring down the country!!!&#8221;. </p>
<p>Enough tongue-in-cheek. To the men in white: the day will come when the boys in blue WILL heed the call of another master, and then the dogs will gladly bite the hands that USED to feed them. For your reflection, please.</p>
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		<title>By: BS</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85426</link>
		<dc:creator>BS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85426</guid>
		<description>as expected, siew is out, not because he is no good, it is because he is too good. i think the government wants the public to see the mockery of 9 ncmps from oppositions.

siew should just go and stand for election and help win 1 GRC!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as expected, siew is out, not because he is no good, it is because he is too good. i think the government wants the public to see the mockery of 9 ncmps from oppositions.</p>
<p>siew should just go and stand for election and help win 1 GRC!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85425</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85425</guid>
		<description>Nonetheless, those who think they could incite fear in us will only make us stronger and fearless. And all the more, we are determined to bring in more alternative parties into parliament to overturn all unfair policies &amp; legislations.  Charles Chong was afraid to be challenged in single ward, deliberately left out Siew Kum Hong as NMP. It proves pap is gutless, love complacency, overused their authority to their own favour and make Singapore an unfair and unequal country for all Singaporeans.  I reiterate that they must be voted out soonest possible to cut short Singaporeans  prolonged nightmares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nonetheless, those who think they could incite fear in us will only make us stronger and fearless. And all the more, we are determined to bring in more alternative parties into parliament to overturn all unfair policies &amp; legislations.  Charles Chong was afraid to be challenged in single ward, deliberately left out Siew Kum Hong as NMP. It proves pap is gutless, love complacency, overused their authority to their own favour and make Singapore an unfair and unequal country for all Singaporeans.  I reiterate that they must be voted out soonest possible to cut short Singaporeans  prolonged nightmares.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Goh</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85415</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Goh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85415</guid>
		<description>Police is always the terror in Singapore to put up against any suggestive anti-establishment activities. This is their way of establishing status quo for any states in the world especially those that are dictatorial.

It is psychological welfare and this is the reason why we are all so afraid and uncreative to go into politics.

Take care Singapore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Police is always the terror in Singapore to put up against any suggestive anti-establishment activities. This is their way of establishing status quo for any states in the world especially those that are dictatorial.</p>
<p>It is psychological welfare and this is the reason why we are all so afraid and uncreative to go into politics.</p>
<p>Take care Singapore.</p>
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		<title>By: smallvice585</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/police-seemed-ignorant-about-law-governing-indoor-forums/comment-page-1/#comment-85409</link>
		<dc:creator>smallvice585</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=11427#comment-85409</guid>
		<description>It is just an excuse for the police to record the particulars of all speakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is just an excuse for the police to record the particulars of all speakers.</p>
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