The price of a four-room flat in Tampines is about $370,000 now, some $40,000 more than the price early last year – and this is largely due to the higher valuation price.Instead of helping to stabilise prices, the HDB’s spike in valuation has been instrumental in increasing resale prices.
Tan Say Yin, letter to Straits Times forum page
can buy a tent & pitch at East Coast Park with the words: “HDB, affordable for ALL!”
:P
//i can only say that politicians, if left unchecked, can also be evil.//
Evil is a understatement! Especially for people like mah. If there is hell, they likely to have a reservation over there. Burn baby burn!
A trip to USA last year opened my eyes to how we have been brainwash into believing that our housing in Singapore is affordable and reasonable.
I was staying in a friend’s condo in New Jersey. It is on a hill with a breath taking view as it oversees the Hudson river and a clear and paranomic view of the Empire State building and downtown Mahattan. The price of the property was US$550k before the clash and about US$500k in July 2008. The surrounding areas are all residential and alfonso eateries similar to Holand villiage within walking distance. The property is freehold, 1350 sq ft and it is just 10 min by river ferry to downtown Mahanttan NY.
This is not imagination and I am not talking about 3rd world country but a property very close to the largest financial centre of the world – New York.
If you ignore the currency exchange difference [since if we work in America, we would be paid in US$], it is about the same price as a HDB flat in Marine parade.
Our public housing is over price and its price is artificially jacked up so that the government will continuously able to make money out of land sales. It cannot reverse the policy now because if the price of HDB drop, 85% of population will revoke against the govt for causing them having negative equity in their home.
53 balanced view) did you find out their pay too? you be shocked… they are making 2X our pay!!!
I remember when I was a little boy, the price of a HDB 3-Room cost something like S$50000, which many of my friends could afford. When their parents reached 55yrs old, they could retired in comfort & not stressed about not having a roof over their heads or the worries of servicing their HDB loan. However, nowadays, it seems like no matter how much you slave, you still can’t retire comfortably!! In 1984, I was working as a bar-boy in a hotel after my Sec 4 & my salary was around S$500, including tipping & OT; after deducting the 20% CPF, I still have S$400 for Studio M, Marlboro, Bacardi Coke & even the occasional holiday trips to Malaysia. I enjoyed my life & have enough time to meet my friends & have a few kick-about in Farrer Park. I was, even, able to save up some money for NS & could afford to ride a Yamaha 125cc! Life was great!!
Fast forward to 2009, I am making many times more than my bar-boy days & yet, I find that I am struggling to make ends meet, sometimes! Well, I have ‘upgraded’ to driving a car & staying in a 4-Room HDB, which I guess it’s already a luxury comparing myself with many of my NS pals. However, I don’t think I will be able to retire at 55, nor I could stop working full time! The loan of my house is gonna take me till I am 60 to be fully paid & by that time, I think I will have to sell & downgrade to a smaller pad. Life isnt that carefree anymore & the quality of life in Singapore has gotten really stressful & quick-paced. I have nothing against Progress but I think we, Singaporeans, have sacrificed a lot to get gain the material wants & we are, all, living on credit. A little credit loan isnt that bad but if most of our salary has gone to repaying credit cards, car or HDB loans, then I think it’s time we have to wake up & see what has gone wrong here. I am sure many of us would love to retire at a healthy age & able to do what we like with our CPF, but alas, we have nothing cos everything has gone into that pigeon hole of ours.
I bought my 3-Room HDB in Ang Mo Kio around 1992 at S$75000 & sold it for S$172000 in 2001; I made a profit of S$97000! With that money, I bought my present 4-Room at RedHill at S$250000, which I could, maybe, sell at S$400000 or more! Isnt that great, I am gonna be rich!!!!! But wait, where am I gonna stay after this? If I am to get another one around the vicinity, it is going to be very expensive, even for a 3-Room & if I am to get somewhere far, then it will be cheaper but I will have to pay many ERPs & still get caught in some stupid jam everyday! Both ways, I will probably suffer! Therefore, I don’t quite understand why people are happy that their HDB prices are going sky rocket; unless you have a place to stay already, then you will see the money! If not, you are gonna take the profit & buy a car you don’t need; before long, all the money would be gone & you still have to pay thru your nose for a pigeon hole! It really makes me wonder how a young couple could get married, have kids, pay off their loans, take care of their old parents & still have money left for LIFE!!
55) Alex the peasant boy on July 15th, 2009 10.42 am ,
alex, when i was a boy, my dad bought 3 room flat at kim keat ave (good location) only S$7,700.00. so you do the math for today’s market.
what you have doing – buy cheap and sell high and gain profits – is one of the culprits of price being rocketed. and this scheme is totally wrong and it wont work at all. imagine, if you sell high on one hand and next you are going buy as hgih too. so where does it ends?? at the end of the day, before you have realised your saving for retirement, you are technically bankrupt. do your math again.
i shared same sentiments with most here and the only way to hope prices go down is not to own flat (after all it only 99 years lease). go for rent, keep the bulk of money you earned and invest correctly esp propperty (freehold and much cheaper) in another country for future migration if needed. think again, with 6 or more million ppl in a small red dot country, will your price of hdb flat shoot up again? my bet is yes! dont be shocked when price shot up 1 million dollar level by then.
Back in 2003, recession the time I sold my 3 room flat at $143k losing 29k. That time was recession, the valuation dropped, it is understandable. But this time, also recession, but the valuation for HDB increased upwards. What is the reason? Can Mr Mah Boh Tan explain the difference of 2003 and 2009 recession???
56 Mike,
I totally agree with you, invest in neighbouring country and retire there. S’pore is a dead place for poor retirees
say singaporean don’t need much living space and he brought property in australia himself so hypo can’t stand his drama.get paid so much yet cannot meet demand.lost to cst twice still get a seat as mp i don’t why
Think about it…at the end of the day, it is all about control. The bigger your debt and liabilities are, the more vulnerable you are. This is how the SG government and their organizations work, by keeping everyone in line, not allowing too many to break through to the elite class and ensuring that you come back to work every Monday morning.
38) agongkia
“When private properties can fetch a higher price,why can’t HDB fetch a higher price?”
Hey, i think you have answered your home question….the clues is in your question mano….Private…and HDB….capish? Will you try to make the lower-middle income people more then what they can afford easily and land them in debits for decades? i guess you can be a great protege of our dear MBT
60) and 55) You hit the nail on the head. Its a social engineering thing with the government to tie people down to Singapore.
Bottom line is this. With the prices going up the pool of locals affording the flats are shrinking by the years. Yes I don’t get it why Singaporean can’t understand it too, if their flat prices keep going up and up , question is where are they going to live, move back with their parents? Problem will be their kids who are just starting out, and the reality will hit them, even with a graduate’s pay, it will be hard to afford a HBD flat.But its a political double edge sword for the government. Very simple folks, they just are not listening to us, make them listen very hard, vote them out at the next election!
“I bought my 3-Room HDB in Ang Mo Kio around 1992 at S$75000 & sold it for S$172000 in 2001; I made a profit of S$97000! With that money, I bought my present 4-Room at RedHill at S$250000, which I could, maybe, sell at S$400000 or more! Isnt that great, I am gonna be rich!!!!! But wait, where am I gonna stay after this? ”
siao one. why move? stay put lah. wait for price climb high high then when old old, sell back remaining years to gov( hope they extend scheme to bigger units) and you can retire financially happy happy. HAHA
praise PAPA for high IQ. HAHA
61)SZ
Read ..Nice seeing you.
I belong to the lower income group.I move into a flat due to resettlement and had never sell my flat before.I do not have the experience of selling buying selling buying .No intention selling it due to sentimantal value but may sell it due to financial hardship.Sleeping at the Gor Kha Kee is fine with me.,if they allow.
No argument but I simply do not agree that valuation is the real cause.We should learn to live within our means .If one insist to choose for a 4 room flat in a matured estate and unable to get it at the price one consider too expensive,one should go for a smaller flat instead of complaining.On one hand you want a bigger flat in a matured estate ,well decorated and convenient,on the other hand you think it is the buyers’ market and want to buy cheap.Where to find?If you say that the smallest 3 room resale flat in Tampines cost about S$270 K and is unaffordable to those in the lower income group or young couples then I fully agree.I will then feel that they go for a new flat if eligible.Staying with parent is also something one can consider ..
51) mice is nice
//////can buy a tent & pitch at East Coast Park with the words: “HDB, affordable for ALL!”////
that’s why now need permit : )
TAMPINES – -
1Q09 $331,000
4Q08 $334,000
3Q08 $330,000
2Q08 $317,500
1Q08 $307,500
4Q07 $293,000
3Q07 $280,000
2Q07 $263,000
64) agongkia
wise advice.
why enslave oneself to the bank.
I recalled this interesting kopitiam discussion on why do some peolple who live in terrace houses eventually put a concrete slab over their garden.
the answer is one big irony of life.
the bigger the house we have, the more time you need to spent outside the house working to pay for the house which you buy to stay in
so we observed that those one room flat types were always crowded and full of life, and as the flat type get larger, the blocks are emptier
so by the time you get to landed property, it gets quite deserted, and so no time to cut grass in your garden, so paved it with cement.
To make a big change in our system, the best way i can see is to aim for the dragon balls. That means win AMK GRC, it would surely hurts and humiliate them, and mark the start of a new era.
This is the punishment for being a naughty dragon.
So, i suppose Tmp residents must be so greatful for the windfall if they sell it .
Lets say these happy people move to Aljunied GRC.
69) Mee Fatt Yew on July 15th, 2009 11.04 pm
My friends are moving out of Aljunied GRC.
1 of them complained to me of the long term bird noise problem still unresolved waking him up at 4am – 7am and 8pm – 9pm daily. Another complained about Dengue. many in his neighborhood have been hospitalised. Long term problem already.
Many young couples who many have children already are living in Tampines. these may be what i think are the post 65′ers.
My friend works in GLC also lives there.
aiyoyo
worry when white bread price get more expensive,
not sure how commoners survive?
housing is the basic necessity, but it’s shy high $, how to tahun?
sleep on the roads/void deck, can?
alamak, seems like life getting tougher in this red dot..
aiyoyo
I think no MP/ Minister had read online blogs lahh…
They either never read or just ignore…
They still happily with “10 Most Expensive cities in Asia”…
3 room flat is going to 200K to 300K.. 4 room is from 250K to 400K..
For those who has HDB and as a seller, they will be happy, however as first time buyer, we dunno why valuation price of HDB are keep climbing.. even jobless rate is going up to 4.9%.
For many young couple, could they plan on their marriage? First, in order to get a new flat, they may need to wait for 3 – 4 years. If buy from resale market, they need to decide fast enough… cos valuation of HDB keep climbing up every quater.
I think young couple need to postpone their wedding lo… even postpone time to have baby.
MBT and the current PAP govt. policies on HDB pricing strategies need to be revisited for the good of the nation’s future. It is not just about intelligent money-oriented public policies making. IMO, we should not be creating a new generation enslaved by their HDB morgages for the ’99-yr lease four walls one ceiling’. This ‘minister-smiling’ policy of today could cause the nation a generation of less entrepreneurial Singaporeans tomorrow. We need good people in govt. with WISDOM, not just intelligence!
I have been looking for my 1st resale flat and guess what, I see those viewing flats are flooded with PRs, and also the fact mostly selling are also PRs. Many are selling at least 15k to 30k above valuations, and rich PRs are willing to pay for those ridiculous price, perhaps hoping to sell it off at even a higher price much later if their speculation is correct, anyone can see how the ripple will grow.
The COV now is so high and even Singaporean finds it hard to absorb on top of the increase in valuation. Free market is free market, but that applies I think more to private properties. For HDB, it should still be to provide a home for all and HDB has to play a part in controlling these crazy HDB property bubble. Hope Mr Mah and HDB can take some action on this. Its getting Seriously ridiculous.
Very simply, how to vote for PAP when they have been guaranteeing since the sky-high valuation years that ordinary citizens like me cannot afford a roof over your head?
had been hunting for a resale for 2mths or so. the cash sellers want are so high. it has become a matter of not just settling for any available, affordable location, but they are touting units 25mins walk away from MRT stations as WITHIN walking distance and asking for $10-20k! The whole island is coverable by foot, what utter nonsensical excuse to get more money!
as someone pointed out, the other flat hunters i saw were mostly PRs and they basically made the buy offer within an hour. home buyers basically lost all luxuries to even decide for a day or 2. it was a scene like buying stuffs off discount carts.
wife and i are getting on in years to mid 30s and parents’ place have no room for us. not possible to share room with siblings right? use good money and pay sky high rentals? no choice, sucked thumb and paid up the blardy cov so when we have a baby, the baby will not be homeless. anyway, we are making plans to move out of sg when the opportunity arises. no hope in a country where even voting is walked-over.
HDB, please relook at HDB price.
1. Shall we calculate, how many month of salary do we need to pay to get a HDB flat? How about compare to the 70s, 80s or 90s?
2. HDB price raise 30-40% in the past 3 years, but how about salary? And I’m afriad many people lost their jobs at with current encomony situation, felt sorry for them and their family..
3. HDB valuation increased crazily too! And the best part is, the valuation may continue to increase, because only 30% of flat is transact at or below valuation, which means more than 60% is above valuation, which means the valuation price will continue to go up as the valuation was based on the past transaction price!
4. I felt deeply sorry for those newly wed and eps those who is having children who deadly need a place…
I do understand HDB has done excellent jobs in providing better designed HDB flat these years, the new flats are really nice and attrative! However, the valuation is too high!
And as an ordinary citizen of Singapore, I wish HDB could make its flat more affordable, esp for those who urgently needs.
A few years ago, just 4 month shy of my 35th birthday which marks my eligibility to purchase a 3 room HDB unit under the single scheme, I had viewed a 3 room flat at Marine Parade for an offered price of $200,000. (with a full sea view) Just when I hit my birthday, the enbloc frenzy started. From then on till now, the asking price for a 3 room in Marine Parade is at least $280,000 and above going for as high as $380,000 for a corner sea view unit. Within just 3 short years the prices had shot up by over a hundred thousand. The agent told me this is caused by PR buyers and rich investors who had cashed out on their En bloc sales hence are buying the HDB for rental income purposes. This had led the market valuation to be irregular and spiked. The one big ramification is that sincere Singaporean buyers had been unfairly priced out. To add to the woe, singles earning above $3000 are not eligible for singles scheme grant nor is eligible for HDB loans to boot. One MP I wrote to years ago told me the government policies had stayed by virtue that they are pro family. Isn’t it telling now that this reason can no longer hold since the pro family couples themselves are getting the same hit albeit them financing the unit with a dual income. For whatever HDB policies and their rational that are in place, they certainly isn’t functioning at least for these two classes of people, the singles as well the young middle income couples, given the ever increasing HDB prices.
I cite these real cases I know :
Two families lived in a 4 room unit that both families co-owned (they are relatives). They had decided to split due to conflict. One of the childless couple in their 60s had balloted 6 times for a studio unit unsuccessfully and finally gave up. (This is another problem which is a separate topic of discussion altogether) They recently bought a 30 over year old dilapidated 3 room corridor unit at $255,000 including COV. After paying agent fees from both sides, stamp duties, legal fees, renovation fees etc the whole unit came up to a whopping $300,000! So even if one was not to select a unit from the matured estate (Marine Parade, Queenstown etc), the average cost of a 3 room unit is still not considered affordable for a certain income class. For a single to take say $150,000 loan at age 35 would mean they are tied to a mortgage till their 50s or 60s, a lifestyle many certainly do not want to have. One often misses this other critical point that is the unit which one spent say $300,000 now will effectively cost an estimated $400,000 after serving say 20 to 30 years of interest. For this couple, they are left with almost nothing from their CPF except for the minimum sum of which half is pledged to the property I think.
I cite another friend situation whose parents are married but not leaving together. She is a single and staying with one parent. Both parents are co-owners in the house. One parent is renting a room at $500 a month and my friend had being paying the rental for the last 8 years so she would have spent close to $50,000 by now. She had no choice because she was not at an eligible age to buy in the earlier years and whilst she is eligible now she is finding the current spiked price not worth paying for. She wants so badly to buy a unit for her other parent and is bearing the guilt that she is not able to provide for their golden years. At the same time she knows it does not make financial sense to keep forking the rental cost. These are the real citizens out there who are in conundrums and dire straits.
What really frustrates me is to hear stories of investors snapping condos and then profiting from the sales. One real case I know is someone who bought a high end condo in the east at over $700,000 before it was officially launch. We speculated that he has connections hence had received exclusive prelaunch invites. He later sold the condo for 2 million. It makes me cringed each time I hear rich people out there getting richer through their wealth whilst the commoners are struggling so hard to have a small piece of a haven from a land they call their home. Short of being disillusioned, the alternative lifestyle choice that had crossed many minds is migration. I’ve known friends who had left the country and I still often hear this as an escape route whenever lamentations of high mortgage loans and education stress surfaced. So it is probably a matter of time before more will take the plunge and find a new haven somewhere else.
I know it is a gradual process as a reversal will send many spiralling into negative equity. However for the sake of the generation and for the fact that prices cannot keep going up, the government has the authority to intervene to bring to par what is irregular through renewed policies. The US government has done it for the banks. Perhaps it’s time we do so too.
YOU DO THIS KIND OF THING IS NO GOOD FOR YR FUTURE DESCENDANTS. TAKING PEOPLE’S HARD EARNED $$$$$$$$.
aiyah all of you dont worry lah this coming 3rd quater of 2010 the price will do it own correction remember 2001 how all flat price is down so much they said it going to be the same so just crossed your finger and hope it will be soon. i already sold my house and currently living a rented house so we wait till may 2010 to see….
Congratulations to M$ Mah for his superb foresight to help PAP to achieve its PAP motto. Well, you get what you paid (vote) for. Maybe it’s time to consider introducing COE system in HDB. Better still, why not just shut the tap!
SINGAPORE will go the way of the dinosaurs, without the influx of permanent residents and new citizens, Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong warned on Saturday night………………….. I think if the current public housing problems are not effecctively addressed, we are more likely to go the way of house-less and/or housing loan slaves.
I plan to get marry next year 2010, but the price is just too high…when i got save up 50k for downpayment, the price of the house had gone up to 400-500k…
The government just never control the price…i kind of worry the bubble will get burst one day…
I plan to get marry next year 2010, but the price is just too high…when i got save up 50k for downpayment, the price of the house had gone up to 400-500k…and then i need to save more…more and more…but by the time i got my initial downpayment…the house price gone up again…can someone just write to the press and raise kao kao to the public…so that the government aware of this issue…they want people to get marry and have babies…but with such stressful environment…dun mention bout babies…marriage also got problem…
The government just never control the price…i kind of worry the bubble will get burst one day…
84) Lei.
2 Options:
Wait for the bubble to burst or work till age 70…….RETIREMENT from 62 to 65 then 67 and eventually 70 or work until one drop dead Reason: cannot finish financing your mortgage
civil servants and ministers will tell you publicly that the HDB flats is highly subsidized because they earn million-dollar-subsidized-salaries. if they were just ordinary folks earning or struggling to earn a reasonable salary like you and me, i wonder what they would say. you see these people are blinded by their pay packet, how can they understand that we have to pay through our teeth for that pidgeon hole of ours? You pull any one of them to one side and ask them from the bottom of their hearts if the HDB flats are highly subsidized as what MBT claim, they will probably spit in his face or shit on his head.
Toa Payoh 5 room flat selling for 600K. How can the middle income Singaporeans afford this price. Must work the whole life to pay for the flat and think twice about having 2 or 3 children of just aim for 3 rooms flat that is life for average Singaporeans.
Why valuation and cash above valuation keep going up ? Can valuation be lowered ? Really don’t understand valuation is already so high and have to pay high COV, how to afford ?