Excerpts from Sgpolitics:
More twist and turns have appeared in the CPF Life scheme, an annuity scheme to be administered by the CPF Board that promises to give lifelong payouts to CPF members.
On Monday in Parliament, Manpower Minister Gan Kim Yong found himself clumsily trying to reassure Singaporeans that monthly payouts from the CPF Life scheme will continue as long as the CPF member is alive, despite a provision allowing the CPF Board to stop payments in the event that the Lifelong Income Fund becomes insolvent.
Madam Halimah, chairman of the Government Parliamentary Committee for Manpower, had earlier noted that she found this clause “quite disturbing“.
Read the full article on Sgpolitics.
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CPF used to mean Cash Prior to Funeral, now is what?
“Mr Gan tried to ally all these concerns by repeating the tired refrain that the fund would be managed on sound actuarial principles,”
Does Mr Gan means that sound actuarial principles = the fund won’t lose money?Or he’s trying to imply CDC, TH, GIC does not managed on sound actuarial principles which results in their losses?
“and that it was not feasible to guarantee the amount paid because monthly payouts have to be adjusted according to changes in prevailing interest rates and mortality in order to maintain the solvency of the scheme.”
Wow… can we don’t make it mandatory and see how many is willing to take this up?
Gan Kim Yong said it was not feasible to guarantee the amount paid for CPF life? Than what is the purpose of this scheme and why all the hassle to implement it in the first place to tell us how good it was and Singaporeans will be benefited when in fact, there is hidden agenda in the clause to hold us ransom when necessary. Let’s vote out CPF annality by voiting out PAP!!!
Lau Ah Pek
Now is Cannot get cash Post Funeral
3) David
Holding ransom is one thing…what about a even darker scenario whereby the lost that’s incurred during their investment spree is so huge and create such a meteoric dent in the reserve etc until the only way to cover up is use any means to lock and hold on to the people’s CPF…although the probability of this occurring is very slight.
So how much are the people contributing to our gahmen now? 10% income tax for those who qualify *i am not sure what’s the tax rate though”…20% + employer contribution to CPF that may not be seen in our lifetime, but can be use to pay for expensive flat that goes back to the gahmen….and 7% GST for whatever stuff and service that u buy…did i leave anything out? Singapore is just like a high resistance circuit…and that’s why the people are just like batteries, losing a significant percentage of “power” to the circuit due to resistance that’s unwanted
The whole damn system is just like a time bomb ticking now, anytime will explode to the shock of all the singaporeans. Imagine how words were being twisted these days, today say like that, tomorrow becomes another different thing all together, the people are all confused and left to fend on their own now while these liairs keep throwing smoke screens to cover up their asses. Won’t be surprise the entire nation reserve is only an empty shell by then, who knows?
my cpf it seem will go to my nextofkin
even if am cremated with acids
my nextofkin will also never get to touch my normination
simply because leekuanyew will SAY
we will deposit into YOUR account
even if you are 13 year old….
don’t worry about bein unemployed @ your aged
just see us when you actualLEE start workin
if you migrated
very very sorry
you would not be able to withdraw as well
~sigh~
aiyoyo
economy no good need $ to tide over, cant use;
wait for what? today can tide over; got tomorrow meh?
aiyoyo
typo correction
today cant tide over; got tomorrow meh?
This CPF Life Scheme involved many many citizens is a time bomb so much bigger than the Minibond saga which affected 10,000 investors.
We saw how the Govt reacted when the small minibomb exploded. You are left to fend for yourself. You fight your own battle with the banks.
With this track record, anyone has comfort with the CPF Life scheme? Remember, legally the Govt can stop payment to CPF members. Even PAP MP in parliament says it is “quite disturbing”!
There is no transparency in the CPF Scheme. What about if it invests members’ money and failed? Even if it is a honest mistake, who can afford to move on? We are talking about old age senior citizen who cannot way for decades for the investment to recover.
You saw the investment performance of Temasek and GIC ? They are aleady managed by top talent. How much faith do you have with the performance of CPF Scheme, assuming it is also managed by top talent?
Murphy law says if things can go wrong, they will go wrong. It is conceivable that many will reach 65 at the wrong time when the CPF life scheme is paying miserable sum or even none.
The pity things is that one sees danger but there is no way to escape and no one dare to alert all people.
Really a sad state of affair.
CPF (bonded for) Life (work till death) scheme….
-.-”
The likelihood of a big losses is very real. Else, why introduce all these measures. Remember those pr who is reaching 50 or 55. Why do you think they still want to keep their monies in Singapore when they could buy a house in JB and cross over to take up small relaxing jobs. They have been working for a long time and they don’t need to stay in Singapore. Just look at the factories and all the other places… you can have an idea how big the potential outflow could be.
I think those of you who thinks the situation is not a big one (Singaporeans I meant) is kidding himself/herself.
What is the point of saving like crazy when the money is wasted in lousy investment?
What is the point of paying the government a huge fee to take care of the funds when they are not producing a good return?
There is at least a few systematic flaws.
It is not wise to give up your right to expression yourself through the ballots because of the upgrading programme.
No, CPF money should be Coffin Plus Funeral money!….which we ourselves cannot decide on how use too!….
I would rather wish the Government of Singapore not to disclose the true facts about our money.
Or else it will be something like the financial crash in the Wall Street couple of months ago.
All Singaporean will have zero $ in their account.
I don’t wish to see this day coming.
I would rather maintain this stage now, and all are happy.
PLEASE, DON”T DIG ANYMORE !!
Remember, this thing is compulsory. COMPULSORY.
You have no choice but to you your own hard earned money with them.
And they have a clause to say that they can stop paying you the payouts. I say again, they have a clause that they can STOP PAYING YOU the payouts.
Some scheme that you’re forced to put you hard earned money in, and you can lose big time. You didn’t choose this. You’re FORCED to take it up.
it is clear now that this policy is against the interest of the people……….forcing us to handover our hard earned monies to them and without any accountability on their part if they lose the money………. there is no hope for this govt anymore……
1) Lau Ah Pek
/////// CPF used to mean Cash Prior to Funeral, now is what?//////////
Thank you for refreshing my memory of what it used to mean : ) !
Now it means
Continue Paying Forever
and that is refering to you and me paying forever hor,
not gahmen paying you and me forever, tan ku ku
after going through BMT (Basis Maid Training) + 2 years of NS + 10 years (annually) of maid refresher courses, men really very disadvantaged woh…
>.<
Imagine all of a sudden , there is a announcement that say we will stop receiving what is rightfully ours
Very worrying. The scheme is designed so that it can still operate even no money left. Just no payout as per the law!
Some more this is compulsory. So eyes wide open or close also no use.
CPF is a joint account. You deposit, gahmen withdraw : )
That’s right, CPF is in practice a joint account with MM and HC.
So all those with CPF can claim to be associated financially with the famiLee.
You deposit for the father / daughter-in-law to withdraw and spend wisely………
17) mice is nice
After BMT, you drive BMW, and gain fat BMI, and die
And still no collecting of CPF
Now, As long as the People accept this scheme,
what is there more to be done or can be done?
1 thing for sure is WAIT for tick tock.
Is our CPF a Ponzi scheme run by our gahman ??
Must be, that’s why they kept pushing the withdrawal age further and further … until you are dead, so they don’t need to give you back !
C for Con
P for Ponzi
F for Fraud
That’s what our CPF has become !
Please vote wisely at the next election !!
National Reserves need 2 keys,
CPF money need 3 keys?
O.O
owner 1 key,
govt 1 key,
who the heck is holding the 3rd key?
O.o
No need to choose what plan I want when I’m 55.
I’ve already make my choice and come next elections I’ll tell you my choice.
There is another issue:
How are we going to plan for retirement using the CPF as such? When payment can cease? Especially when they made people withdraw less from the ever increasing higher limit?
What is stopping them from stop payment when you reach 90 claiming that the fund will be insolvent if there are more people like you?
How can it be that the country and the GIC, TH performing as well as they claimed and yet they cannot be sure that the CPF fund is solvent?
Basically what they are trying to do is to decouple CPF and GIC/TH. CPF will be self containing while they continue to play with TH/GIC monies.
Also, CPF’s solvency also depend on MAlaysians worker not withdrawing their funds (they are not subjected to minimum sum rule). So, we ended up taking the remains of the shit of what these people leave behind.
Animal farm in Singapore, truely.
What is stopping them from delaying payment for 10 years?
Why should they be paid millions then when that happens?
Also, I have never heard of countries pensioners not receiving their monies unless their countries are taken over by foreigners.
We put monies into the fund to get the monies back after 30 years and they could now stop paying you completely.
mini bond in disguise.
which reminds us of the fall of the nazism in germany.
the fascist regime was so used to repeated success that prior to the
outbreak of the ww2, the leaders SCARELY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
and when the end was near for nazi germany, the LEADERS having hyped themselves and the ALL-BELIEVING PUBLIC, that they SCARELY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
you see the tragedy is absolutely power is a detriment, a deadly disease. a nation ran by one man is unwise and dangerous. in the past, there are numerous examples of leaders who ruled CANNOT give power.
here you have a case of a man still in power but in the background. this was a smart move in that that ruler craftily move into the shadows. he is all over the place. out of touch with reality, he refuses to let go because he CANNOT. he HIMSELF is trapped by his own illusion and madnness. he is no torment and start acting in a terrible way. moreover, he is also fighting against time – FEARFUL of DEATH. so he intensifies his effort to make his mark even more forcefully.
by to what end? how can we make the public see through the blindness? as in nazi germany, it was the people who gave the regime the soild support. the leaders gave the word, manipulate the emotion, the majority of the people just simply followed. basically, the majority of the people are sheep. no offense but this is true. and leaders KNOW that.
Herrman Goering, Hitler’s henchman, confessed whilst awaiting trial : “ But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” NOTE : the Bush adminstration applied this principle when 9-11 was orchestrated (most likely by powerful elements within the US govt).
but in the end, as with all things, the nightmare will go away. but at a terrrible cost.
Remember the last chapter of Animal Farm:
it goes something like this: the other animals look on to the pigs feasting like the humans.
With the new changes, the PAP people are doing exactly that.
They feast with the foreigners with the GIC/TH monies while the ordinary animals barely have enough to eat with the (don’t know how long it will last) CPF monies.
A country where people save like crazy by any international standards, actually didn’t have enough monies that the Taiwanese (from far).
What a joke.
This is “first” world?
Best of all under the new formulation:
It is possible that
1. CPF is insolvent but GIC/TH make a lot of monies and ministers make even more monies but it is not the ministers’ fault because CPF is insolvent because of “interest rate” as the minister for labor is trying to link the two together.
2. scarier: CPF is insolvent because it is invested in a low yielding bonds or investments that GIC/TH offload to the CPF fund. GIC / TH declare a huge profit as a result.
Very sly right?
Of course lah, it came out from the government.
If the money earn, the dear leader earns
however if the money is lost, it is not their fault and we have to bear the blunt of it…
next we will get LSS saying how rich he feels when he see his CPF statement again and how good this policy is
Some possible clarification of history:
2000-2003 there was a massive quantitative easing to help save Singapore from the dot com bust and the sars.
2006 – To suck up all the excessive liquidity at those times, the govt sold land to make the IR.
The land is also reclaimed land.
There were no records on any govt asset books where this piece of asset came from because apparently it takes 50 years for the govt to list all the land that it owns which it therefore cannot do.
To stop the population from declining, and also to build the IR (why else would a foreigner buy a piece of land in Singapore for 6 billion), the govt open the floorgate for immigrants.
At the same time, to prevent excessive monies from leaking, raise the minimum sum from 40K to 120K (before inflation) so that fewer people have access to their CPF monies. Of course, it is then possible that a low skilled Singapore with 60-80K CPF savings having to eat “grass” because he doesn’t have free cash.
As these FTs are low skills workers, evidently with low educational standards and to keep them satisfied with no problems on our ladies, release another floorgate on PRC women to come to Singapore to service these men. But the govt forgot that these women are also service providers and they pick their customers too. Balding Singaporean men with huge savings in the CPF is a better segment to target than the rough ft s. No surprise why we had a series on bloody murders involving primarily Singaporean men and PRC women.
Another brillant manoeuvre: before allowing FTs to come in like crazy, get an NTU professor to come up with a paper that FTs were let in like crazy in Singapore, only to be shot down public by the then minister of Labour, that his calculations were wrong. That would give people the impression at that time that it is ok to let these FTs in like crazy. We only found out how wrong that is.
All these would have at least produce some tangible gains to Singapore without having to tap into the reserve (which we are not sure even if we got as big an amount as the govt claimed with the JCS) if the govt didn’t invest in the foreign banks.
However, it did and lost so much monies and had to dipped into the remaining reserves. Also, the construction cost at that time was sky high because of the commodities boom.
Remember the first phase of MRT lines as planned by Ong TC long time ago was 5 billion.
I think we lost the same amount with the banks.
Wouldn’t it have been better to have more convenient MRT lines instead? Since the monies is going to be thrown away anyway.
We are so stingy with monies spent on Singaporeans but we have absolutely minimal investment policies and rules on how TH and GIC invest their monies. Not coherent at all.
So, the end result of all these policies movements are:
1. we lost a lot of monies in bad investments. Poor control over GIc/TH/
2. We have a lot more social problems than envisaged.
3. the hope that foreigners will settle down to become Singaporeans are low because they can see that it is MUCH MUCH better to keep their original citizens with none other than work links with Singapore.
4.The low interest rate that was imposed for the quantitative easing that was artificially maintained because of the land sale ended up causing CPF to continue to have a low interest rate that doesn’t ensure sufficient payout for retirements for Singaporean.
5. Seeing that, a foreigner has more reasons not to settle here and contribute to CPF because he doesn’t know whether he would get the monies back, which also aggravate the CPF retirement problem.
Our govt is not that brillant after all.
Either they are not as talented as they claimed or the incentives for these jokers to perform are wrong.
Take a guess
I think they are not as talented. Because they couldn’t see the inconsistency among their assumptions.
The way they run the show is as if they are turning tapes whenever there is a problem. Open this tap to solve this problem. Open that “tap” to solve another one.
If only running a country is as easy as turning taps.
The clause is a bogey man to scare us..vote for the opposition and there goes your money..smart
Does this mean that no matter how long into the future, no matter which party wins, the people of singapore will ‘enjoy’ such a scheme? How about in 100 years time?
Seriously, what would you do if you found out all your CPF money was gone?
Zed:
To answer your of what would Singaporeans do if all their CPF money is gone just look at the minibond default. It is just a curtain opener to the real show.
Lets be real, something must be very wrong from the day the past two Presidents (Nair and Ong Teng Cheong) of Singapore going agaist PAP and thus losing their State Funeral rights. How come Temasek did not even tell Singaporeans that it sells the Bank of America shares. Now Goodyear resigning before he start. The ST and Minister of Finance continue to spin positive pictures of Temasek depsite its obvious loses.
Now the compulsory annuity with a clause to cover their ass…so even if they don’t pay Singaporeans, LKY (or his ghost) can use the same excuse as the minibond…you go in with your eyes open.
The CPF could be empty by now. It could turn into a kind of Ponzi scam where new contributors are funding the old ones; that’s why PAP needs to increase the population of Singapore no matter what…needs more contributors.
There is nothing Singaporeans can do or will do or dare to do…look at the minibond and compare Singaporeans’ guts to the Hong Kongers!
Lucky I predicted this who scam and emigrated to Canada 18 years ago…took out every cent of my CPF.
I hold a Masters degree in Management Science from the prestiguous Imperial College. This degree course trained me to thick critically with the systematical approach of Economatic Models and Quantitative and Qualitative analysis and confirmed with Stocastic Process. It all pointed out the risk I will subject my children to if I live in Singapore. So in 1991 we packed and left. Now my predictions and forcast of Singapore is “history”.
30 borderless,
“by to what end? how can we make the public see through the blindness?”
>> Spread the word like what TOC is doing… educate your peers, parents and childrens, and friends.
I must say the picture of the coffin with CPF logo is only complete when one oldfart is lying inside permanently.
The picture is then worth more than a thousand words…..CPF, Coffin, Conman.
The Conman will take our CPF money with him to the grave.
38) Minibond
/////Lucky I predicted this who scam and emigrated to Canada 18 years ago…took out every cent of my CPF.I hold a Masters degree in Management Science …. all pointed out the risk I will subject my children to if I live in Singapore. So in 1991 we packed and left. Now my predictions and forcast of Singapore is “history”.////////
I would be considerate when making a wishful statement like this. I respect your decision to leave Singapore, but your wishful statement could be viewed as a person after abodandoning ship then wishing that the ship sinks with all its remaining passengers. We, the ones so stupid to left behiind, may not have the wisdom of your master degree to be able to see the pattern a whole 18 years ahead of everyone else, but then some may think that you need to have this wish realised to justify that you have indeed made a right choice to abandon ship.
I wish you and your family well.
34) FPC
///////////Some possible clarification of history:
2006 – To suck up all the excessive liquidity at those times, the govt sold land to make the IR.
The land is also reclaimed land.///////
The land was reclaimed in the late 70s. The recalimation created Marina East, Marina Centre and Marina South.Marina Centre was developed first, with Millenia Walk, Suntec and Marina Square. Marina East will be residential and recreational. The new golf course is a mid term an interim use.The masterplan for the new downtown at Marina South was envisaged in the 80s. It was long term plan put in place before the existing CBD runs out of space, which it did by the late 90s. The F&B establishments there, now vacated, was a short term interim land use plan.The IR is only one of the many future developments in the new downtown, among other like The Sail, One Raflles Quay, and the mammoth BFC. Economic climate will determine th pace of the future developments in the new downtown.
So that is a clause that goes along the line whereby the money that is rightfully ours could be “taken” away from us…is this a unique first too…
Singaporeans is definitely been left to become a dry husk
hi KopitiamApek,
////I respect your decision to leave Singapore, but your wishful statement could be viewed as a person after abodandoning ship then wishing that the ship sinks with all its remaining passengers. We, the ones so stupid to left behiind, may not have the wisdom of your master degree to be able to see the pattern a whole 18 years ahead of everyone else, but then some may think that you need to have this wish realised to justify that you have indeed made a right choice to abandon ship.////
i agree with you on this. also, can see does not mean 1 has the ability to leave. :(
44) mice is nice
Depend on where you want to leave to, maybe.
And, ironically, also the ability to return.
I recall meeting a few old angmos living in Ho Chih Min, they chose to remain there, did not want to go back to US after the war as they could not fit back to the life there.
There are ex Singaporeans who are facing the same issue now.
there is alway 2 sides to a coin.
CPF is a PONZI, yes a BIG PONZI scheme … there is no way to get you money back, or very very hard to get your money backup.
It is a perfect tool for PAP to LEGALLY detain your money, rightfully owned by you.
There is no nation in the world that currently detain retirement account from distributing the money back to its owner beyond age 58. Only Singapore does that, through its propaganda spread via its MSM.
Life scheme as is an extended function of CPF, which would enhance its capability to detain MORE money, so that in the event of your DEATH, CPF can rightfully pocket your money away. (Not even the dead can escape PAP vile policy)
Advise your elders to boycott this scheme as far as possible. The MSM has twisted the facts and project this Life Scheme as a perfect solution to the aging population. Be wary of such propaganda. Some elders may not know and may opt for this vile scheme without further probe into it, and may end up losing all their life savings.
Minibond,
which country have you migrated to ? Care to share some info on current state of the country ?
46) nick lee on July 24th, 2009 5.21 pm
” CPF is a PONZI, yes a BIG PONZI scheme … there is no way to get you money back, or very very hard to get your money backup.”
But how many singaporeans think the same as you?
That is more important and a challenge for you to convince people.
everybody knows the thing about the truth about the CPF but do we dare to do anything about it.
it is actually possible and thinkable that the pensioners of CPF life receives nothing or very little but the ministers and top public servants can still receive huge salaries year on year.
It is like the old Chinese dynasty.
This is the standard of our govt.
They didn’t invent anything new but they just copy the old bad chinese habits.