Tuesday, August 18, 2009 20:39
TOC Special Feature: Foreign Talent policy remains contentious, and for reason too
In Guest Writers, Main Stories • 4,061 views • 125 Comments
Pritam Singh / Founder of OpinionAsia.com
The overall perception is of a poorly articulated, poorly communicated and poorly understood FT policy that incites questions of loyalty, nationhood and national unity for native Singaporeans.
The Straits Times’ report on 14 Aug 2009, “MM: Foreign talent is vital” of MM Lee’s Tanjong Pagar GRC National Day 2009 dinner speech did not reveal anything substantively new about the Singapore government’s foreign talent (FT) policy.
Its flavour was slightly different from usual reportage on the issue insofar as it buttressed the importance of foreigners in supplementing the country’s low birth rates – an argument which could potentially resonate more deeply than one which portends the decline of the Singapore economy in the absence of foreign talent.
The lacunae in the latter argument has been variously exposed over the last few years with a broad, data-backed consensus indicating that Singapore’s low-income workers did not see a rise in their median income in line with the rest of the economy. While various government ministers have over the years accrued this to the impact of globalisation, for a significant minority of Singaporeans, the perception continues to dominate that the FT policy does not benefit them, but instead squeezes prospective job opportunities and drives their real wages down.
More recently, the government argued along the lines of worker retraining and e2i, but preceding these reactionary initiatives has been a lack of information, debate and communication concerning the ramifications of what the FT policy entails for Singapore society and our low-wage earners; evidently, the most vulnerable group of Singaporeans affected by the FT policy.
Compounding the less than enthusiastic public response to the FT policy is the term ‘foreign-talent’ itself, which has hitherto been loosely and sometimes interchangeably employed with the word ‘foreigner’ in the public domain and media. The word ‘talent’ also obfuscates, especially when MM Lee was quoted as saying, “We accept only immigrants who increase the average level of competence of Singaporeans” only for ST to report immediately thereafter, “(t)hey [immigrants] must have skills and at least, secondary, preferably tertiary education.” Clearly, in the context of the MM’s words and the subsequent reportage of the ST, ‘talent’ is a very loosely defined word, not necessarily synonymous with conventional definitions found in a dictionary.
But more importantly, the ST article’s focus on MM Lee’s remarks covering population regeneration as a goal of the FT policy, involve two separate prongs to it. One element deals with population regeneration, a goal which many Singaporeans can appreciate, until the question is posed – what is the optimum population level for Singapore?
If the goal is to maintain the population of Singapore, which for a long time stood between 3-4 million, it is rather likely that the public vitriol against the FT policy would be more subdued. It would take either a brave man or a soothsayer to conclude economic decline would as a result ensue, if Singapore’s population stabilizes around the circa 4 million figure. Even the example used by MM Lee in his speech on Japan’s falling population and the future impact on its economy was instructive – it was based on a dire economic situation in Japan contingent on a declining population, not a stable one.
It is precisely this second element of the FT policy, the very prospects of economic decline and the necessary pre-emptive measures to meet this alleged challenge, which compounds the discomfort among Singaporeans. For some, the FT policy underwrites a population surge on a very small island to a population figure Singaporeans have little clarity about. As a result, the FT policy has given birth to the very real heartland reality of a more crowded Singapore, where infrastructure, on the surface of things, does not seem to have grown in parallel with the volume of foreigners allowed entry from 1998, when the effects of the FT policy began to be felt in earnest, particularly from 2002-2007. This sense of overcrowding has subsided somewhat, thanks to the latest recession. But even today, the unusually large number of linen and work wear hung out to dry on bamboo poles from some, ostensibly let-out HDB flats and even condominiums, offer leading conclusions to the number of occupants in each apartment. The perception of stresses on public facilities like the police force and separately, on the transport system by way of jam-packed trains and buses, have been but some of the more tangible and direct repercussions of the FT policy on heartlanders so far.
On a tangential, albeit worrisome note, class distinctions have taken root under the cloud of the FT policy, since the vast majority of policymakers and ruling politicians are likely to reside in districts and estates that do not deal with the day-to-day realities of the FT policy faced by heartlanders. Even relatively well-off Singaporeans are likely to host at best, mixed feelings about foreigners living in their immediate environment with the Serangoon Gardens episode of 2008 a primer of this deep emotive.
Arguments concerning class distinctions are brought into sharpest focus when some laymen opine that the real beneficiaries of a larger population in future are big business and corporate interests, with the bulk of Singaporeans having to readjust to smaller homes, congested roads, crowded public spaces, unintelligible service staff, and the worry of a real drop in living standards as a function of the preceding compromises.
The effect of these optical and cognitive realities creates a genuine feeling of unease and insecurity among a potentially large number of Singaporeans, who viscerally cannot make sense of a ST headline which reads, “MM: Foreign talent is vital”, especially when it is they who are perceived to be paying for it. Compounded by occasional government feelers suggesting the relocation of old-folk homes to Johor Bahru, the overall perception is of a poorly articulated, poorly communicated and poorly understood FT policy that incites questions of loyalty, nationhood and national unity for native Singaporeans.
While MM Lee sounded as if he was at pains to reinforce the importance of foreign talent to Singapore, the debate and concerns of many Singaporeans have arguably moved beyond those covered by the ST report’s ambit. In fact, MM Lee hinted at this himself, although these were not expatiated upon in the aforementioned ST article. After reporting that the total fertility rate (TFR) was 1.91, 1.19 and 1.14 for the Malay, Indian and Chinese communities respectively, MM Lee was quoted as saying, “If we continue this way without the new immigrants and PRs and their children doing national service, the composition of the Singapore Armed Forces [SAF] will change. So please remember that.”
Without prejudicing other interpretations to the TFR figures juxtaposed against MM Lee’s remark, one interpretation conveys the prospect of the Chinese community’s demographic percentage dropping below the current 76%, as the community hosts the lowest TFR rate of all the racial groups in Singapore. The curious lack of rigorous public debate in the mainstream media over this prospect and the FT policy in general is noteworthy. Would the essential character of Singapore society be so fundamentally altered if the envisaged percentage for the Chinese population existed within a band say from 65-80%?
Superficially, the preceding point comes into distinct relief especially when Singapore’s population is anticipated to rise to between to 5.5 to 7.5 million, or whichever figure is eventually pursued by the Ministry of National Development. One would have thought that any change in the character of Singapore society ought to hold greater relevance for Singapore’s racial minorities, rather than for the majority community.
Separately, what the ST report did not mention was that even for the Malay community, TFR rates have been steadily dropping from 2.48 in 1998 to 2.1 in 2003. Clearly, the problem of population replacement is affecting all Singaporeans, regardless of race, since all three major racial communities are below the magic 2.1-population replacement figure.
An arguably more significant take-away from MM Lee’s remark was the reference to the SAF and the projected prospects of more Malays in uniform, because of the TFR figures in question. Speaking on a similar subject in 1999, MM Lee (then SM) opined “(i)f, for instance, you put in a Malay officer who’s very religious and who has family ties in Malaysia in charge of a machine gun unit, that’s a very tricky business. We’ve got to know his background… I’m saying these things because they are real….” While those remarks proved controversial then, on balance, at least they contained caveats in that they identified potential religious overzealousness and family ties as determining factors for military deployment, not that of being Malay in itself.
But MM Lee’s more oblique and open-ended references this time need to be unpacked, something the ST article did not do, for whatever reason. Critically, the crutch-like reliance on race-based arguments throws a wet blanket on the progress of Singapore’s nation-building efforts since independence. Should such thinking continue, the FT policy will raise even more uncomfortable questions akin to those which question the loyalty of a Malay (or any other race for that matter) soldier whose family has stayed in Singapore for generations, against that of a newly-arrived Chinese or Indian who may claim to be as loyal as a Pavlovian dog but who cannot sing the Majulah Singapore without looking or sounding like an oddball. That the insinuation of a Malay soldier’s loyalty may even be raised, is testimony to the deep, intense and unsettling emotions engendered by the FT policy. This is not to say that the racial factor is irrelevant and that MM Lee’s latest remarks were totally disingenuous. But it is hard to imagine Singaporeans enthusiastically playing their part integrating new foreigners when elements of the political leadership appear to intuitively speak the language of race as the argument of last resort.
More broadly, framing the FT policy solely through the lenses of race also threatens to roll back progress made by Singaporeans since independence in the national unity and political maturity arenas in particular. Feedback in the ST Forum over the last few months recommending the induction of English tests and other qualifying criteria for new immigrants are indicative of a public attempt at determining a minimum set of hoops future citizens ought to pass through before succeeding in their application for citizenship.
Taken further, one wonders what sort of values new citizens would bring to our shores should they come from corruption-ridden, authoritarian countries and host nary a spark of talent and with no experience of living in a multi-racial society. Singaporeans ought to welcome these immigrants if they display a desire to cast away or replace the narrow and self-serving values picked up in their former countries of domicile and commit for example, to absorb the values defined by our pledge, crafted by our first foreign minister, S. Rajaratnam.
It is for this very reason that some qualifying criteria – beyond educational standards – for citizenship based on Singapore’s shared values and a reasonable competency in English, amongst others, stand out as more nuanced and realistic requirements for citizenship, rather than an overly rigid adherence to the racial balance.
In a final message to Singaporeans, MM Lee rightfully observed that the speed at which foreigners integrated into Singapore society depended on how Singaporeans treated them. But the question remains of how far the government is willing to go to alleviate the very real concerns, repeatedly made in a variety of fora, in addressing the immediate and future social costs of the FT policy on native Singaporeans.
According to the same ST article, MM Lee asserted that the government safeguards the interest of native Singaporeans, highlighting education, housing and hospitalization policies favouring citizens over PRs. If this defence is employed to justify the government’s FT policy, it must be a highly specious one, as Singaporeans do not benefit from education, housing and hospitalization policies because of the FT policy. Therein lies the principle reason accounting for the largely insipid reaction of many Singaporeans to the FT policy – a lack of acknowledgement by the government of the very real sacrifices Singaporeans of all strata, but especially the nation’s lower and middle-classes, have to make and will likely need to make in future, to accommodate more foreigners into Singapore.
The very deep and all-encompassing changes to Singapore society as a result of the FT policy call for not only fresh approaches in dealing with concerns of the Singapore public but the slaughter of some sacred cows as a result. Significantly, a relationship based on transparency and openness with the public vis-à-vis the FT policy must represent the central pillar of the government’s efforts rather than one that sees the intermittent release of government data providing selective details on the FT policy, with no interest in revealing the guidelines that has and will shape that very policy. In the circumstances, it is unsurprising that Singaporeans continue to exhibit indifference to the FT policy. In this regard, it may serve the longer-term interests of government to appoint an ombudsman for the National Population Secretariat and National Integration Council, the two central bureaucratic organizations that oversee the government’s FT policy.
In addition, it would be in the government’s interest to develop a more inclusive policy formulation mechanism specific to the FT policy and even invite and encourage opposition parties, civil society groups and NGOs to form committees to provide regular feedback. Not only would this attract the focus and attention of Singaporeans to a policy that is likely to have a profound impact on their lives and those of their fellow citizens, it would expose Singaporeans to the realities of policy formulation in a larger way and promote the building of cooperative bonds between the executive and the populace at large. Both the government and Singaporeans at large stand to gain from such inclusiveness with the larger objective of citizen participation in the national integration project more likely to succeed.
In the final analysis, the fact that the government, through MM Lee no less, sees a need to repeat the ‘foreign talent is vital’ mantra every so often, is indicative of the mixed results of the FT policy so far. While it must be regarded as a success from the perspective of sheer numbers, the overt public skepticism against the policy for a variety of reasons alluded to earlier and other reasons this writer is uninformed about, seem to resonate more than any desire to help new immigrants integrate into Singapore society. If left unchecked, such a reality could force new immigrants to constitute one half of a bifurcated Singapore polity in future, a state of affairs that bodes ill not just for Singapore society and national unity, but also for the same SAF MM Lee frets about.
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Pritam Singh can be reached at pritam@opinionasia.com
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Related posts:
- Foreign Talent policy: of principle and practice
- Set higher standards for foreign sports talent
- Conflicting signals from Government over foreign manpower policy
- Foreign labour policy & income disparity in Singapore
- TOC Policy Feature: Improving Singapore’s Public Transport System – A Commuter’s Perspective
125 Comments
Muhamad Nur
theonlinecitizen
Muhamad,
Pls paragraph your comments so that it’s easier for readers to read. I’ve paragraphed this comment of yours.
kaao chinuis
My take on FT policy is
it is more about the quota and timeliness than the reason given for the implementation of the policy.
Terence Goh
“Taken further, one wonders what sort of values new citizens would bring to our shores should they come from corruption-ridden, authoritarian countries and host nary a spark of talent and with no experience of living in a multi-racial society. Singaporeans ought to welcome these immigrants if they display a desire to cast away or replace the narrow and self-serving values picked up in their former countries of domicile and commit for example, to absorb the values defined by our pledge, crafted by our first foreign minister, S. Rajaratnam.”
I like this paragraph. It reflects how I feel when I see immigrants breaking the law while probably laughing at the Singaporeans for being inflexible. What’s worse is the government closes one eye for the foreigner.
A good example is the Grangeford illegal subletting fiasco. Singapore PR Tang Yong is the one responsible for it and also for other illegal subletting in Singapore. He has been doing illegal subletting since 2001. See
http://www.pearlbankapartments.com/IdealAccomodation.htm
However, URA doesn’t seem interested in punishing him for his illegal acts.
Nazryn
first, refer to http://www.immi.gov.au
make it mandatory for aspiring immigrants to take IELTS or other standardised english test recognized worldwide.
Mandatory test on Singapore values such as lifestyle, cultures, history etc…
Lastly, we urgently need the government to review the immigration policy. Implement an immigration oin system where if an would-be migrant plans to migrate here, he has to meet the minimum points set during its pre-assessment.
How does the points system work? Jobs in great demand in Singapore which are not attarcting many locals to fill up the number consitutes more points. Other criteria would be age, security/social risk factors based on countries they are from, years ever spent in Singapore under otehr visas etc…
If we are serious about national unity and identity and at the same time, serious about having foreign “TALENTS”, I urge the government to look into a policy similar to this…
Point to note, once again, MM Lee never fails to berate his race conscious arguments into PAP’s policies. You have built a nation rich in infrastructure and services. Yet you have diserviced the populance from forging a common brotherhood that should have been.
educateduptoprimarysixonly
Mr. Pritam Singh, this is probably a great and profound article.
Sorry, I said probably because it takes some effort to read. Would be great if you could write like my primary school English teacher says : “Use short sentences with simple Engish. Put you idea through is a concise manner”
patriot
“What type of FTs they want?
Are they sincere in wanting to hv FTs?
A former IT manager from HK came to sg. Now a taxi driver.
A former professor from the us came to spore, now a taxi driver.
It seems that SG is Good at turning FTs into taxi drivers.
How about local graduates?
Are they better”
I bring the above comment from a poster(sorry Sir ! can’t figure how to get your permission) at Lucky Tans’ Blog and cannot help asking myself what’s the future of our own university graduate ?
The above Comment could also be interpreted as two local born Singaporeans are deprived of taxi driving occupation, or am i wrong to see it that way ?
patriot
riddler
A former IT manager from HK came to sg, now he is a CEO.
A former professor from the us came to spore, now he is a rich businessman.
It seems that SG is Good at turning FTs into prosperous individuals.
So what’s your point again?
prettyplace
#8) How many are the real talent….like those you mentioned…
The basis for this PAP govt to bring in more and more foreigners is to make sure they collect enough taxes.
Taxes in the form of GST and what not.
Keep the prevailing prices of goods & services intact, e.g HDB, Private Properties and Cars.
They do bring in money, thus to inject the system with fresh capital.
Economically, this is what Australia and USA is doing. Only reason we in Singapore are srcewed because we are small. The PAP govt doesn’t care about it.. In fact, they can’t even read it.
All they know and care about is that the above reasons will improve economic statistics, so they do it.
Now for social & cultural issues, we need to get a different govt or at least vote in the oppositions. Thus, if you care anything about social issues, then bring in the oppositions.
prettyplace
Nice article Pritam…..still worried of the old man huh…
Well, too bad his advisers these days aren’t that good anymore…
so he recites what’s written….Can he think anymore now..mmm…
No… looks like he has lost touch with contemporary Singapore and Singaporeans.
Georgie
Imagine serving NS faithfully for 2.5 years to protect your country against foreigners
only to find out upon ORD that the gov had already allowed it to be invaded by 30% of foreigners.
Talk about feeling betrayed by your own country.
SoSad
His point is …
What are the FT’s talent?
Are we attracting the correct talent?
Mao Tse Tung Syndrome
Thanks Pritam.
When you have an emperor with no clothes, the ST and all media turn their heads away.
Anyway it lies in the performance appraisal system of the ministers. Their performance bonus is tied to the short term GDP growth.
So while the ministers milk off on the multi million bonus linked to short term GDP growth, we the citizens will have to suffer the consequences 10 year later. (rather we are suffering the consequences now, while the multi million dollar ministers have their Istana grounds to walk on, the bungalows etc etc.)
Staying together (peasants), moving ahead. (ministers and CEOs)
The way I look at it in future, many Singaporeans may be working for our foreign FTs as they are seen to be talented and bright.
Frankly, Singapore is a great place to do business due to it’s business friendly environment but few Singaporeans can take advantage here as they have little leftover in their bank account to start anything and we are not those who can start a business anytime due to our lack of creativity and risk adverse mentality.
I know of many foreigners who came over, became PRs and later also started their own businesses.
I have always say that our govt will let this FT issue brings it down and I hope that I am right here. A fragmented population is never good for our country and hearing our recent PM NDP speech, I have doubts that they have all the answers to a serious problem here. Past results don’t guarantee future success and the faster our govt knows about it the better.
More people are asking me how to migrate overseas and I think I can do a roaring business starting a migration business centre here!
I believe there are at least 250,000 Singaporeans working abroad and the group will grow in the near future. I won’t be surprised if foreigner citizens will outgrow locally bred ones in five to ten years time.
theforgottongeneration
Pls refer to article “Creating a new buzz”, ST, 1 Aug 2009.
Background = Mr Lee Yi Shuan is heading a new task force to address productivity issues. In that article, I quote:
“…Mr Lee reveals that 55 percent of Singapore’s economic growth in the last decade stems from manpower growth.
For GDP (gross domestic product) to grow, you can either inject capital or you can inject manpower, he explains.
Since Singapore ’s economy has been growing at a faster rate than productivity growth, it would mean the country has been growing with “a lot of injection of manpower.”…. ”
Unquote.
I hope this helps Mr Pritam Singh in answering the first part of his looong article. (Great effort from him). This may ties in with #13) Mao Tse Tung Syndrome on August 18th, 2009 7.05 am, but that angle is a bit speculative to me at the moment. Can someone share the “variable” component of our MP’s pay structure?
Second part on the mix of FT/FWs. I just think whether black or white cat, as long as GDP grows, the garhem doesn’t give a hoot if a Martian with zero English but can help generate taxes, lands & work here.
Curious
“That the insinuation of a Malay soldier’s loyalty may even be raised, is testimony to the deep, intense and unsettling emotions engendered by the FT policy.”
I am curious how in a country where you are jailed, fined or even sued, for making racially divisive remarks and one in which the PM’s National Day speech repeated the need for racial harmony can the Govt. make such obviously racially divisive remarks.
I would suggest that the “intense and unsettling emotions” are not so much one of the FT’s but rather the sweeping under the carpet of the racial divides that truly exist. It does not take long being in this city to realise there is a deep divide in the community and that it is racially drawn.
Jason
High income inequality tends to bring out the “us vs them” mentality.
Singaporeans would be more accepting of FT if there is a perception that everyone is prospering together. But with the way income inequality has manifested, this is very hard. People perceive that the interests of businesses are very well represented, but that of ordinary folk much less so. FT policy is but one aspect of this.
(aside: People aren’t fooled into thinking today’s influx of foreigners has anything to do with low fertility, since the consequences of low fertility in raising dependency ratios only happens twenty, thirty years down the road. It is all about raising profits for businesses.
People aren’t convinced when MM says Japan is declining because of low fertility and low acceptance of immigrants. After all it is common knowledge even amongst non-economists that Japan’s troubles stemmed from a huge bursting of a real-estate-stock-market bubble. )
PM talked seriously and hard about religious schisms, and that is certainly something to be aware of, given the rise of Christian fundamentalism. But he did not talk about schisms of class and nationality, which is a shame. Those issues badly require candid discussion.
I think the government recognizes the danger to some extent, having put in some measures to reduce inequality post-market. But I fear they are unwilling to do more when more needs to be done. Decline and destruction can come in more ways than religious strife.
Dan
Nothing is more worrying than the fact that our PM did not even address this issue during the NDR. FTs/income distribution/economy etc were not addressed, only making a mountain out of molehill over racial issues. A total waste of time and torture for anyone who has to attend the NDR.
Singapore is overcrowded. How do we know it is overcrowded? It is profitable to divide one condo apartment into 3 and rent it out. Even if a compartment doesn’t have a loo, or a window.
In the National Day rally, PM Lee showed people living in squalor in the past, with one family partitioned below another. Are we attempting to recreate the past?
While I cannot argue against the position that some immigration is desirable to offset declining birth rates, I am staunchly against the current pace of immigration. Clearly the physical infrastructure and transport infrastructure cannot keep up, and there is not enough time for the new immigrants to be absorbed into Singapore society.
we are boxed in
“we are not those who can start a business anytime due to our lack of creativity and risk adverse mentality.”
The irony is that the FTs that we are talking about here are not likely to be boxed by so of the many unnecessary rules here in their own countries – or they just don’t care…….
Excepting for certain third world countries, FTs have a REAL strong participatory voice via the open election process and a much much more open civil and NGO platform. Just look at Taiwan where the president got a earful from even his own supporters for the recent typhoon crisis.
ronin
Wow….impressive article.
I wonder why ST’s journalistic quality does not even come close to what Mr Singh has. Sad
complain
If we read newspaper, we noticed one thing. When the Lee family get awarded oversea. It will be headline.
Look at Phillip Jeyarenam, he acquired 3 honor if I am not wrong. Does the media care?
The Empire is just trying to shun the uprising middle class.
In the end, all Singaporeans are slave to the FamiLee Empire.
TP
When old man is gone…
FT will go also…
Because his dynasty will fall..
And singapore will be free again !
gj
Is the NTUC protecting our own workers?
centaur
Hello Pritam,
This is probabaly the best article I have read on the FT issue. Well done. Its fair and well articulated. I am forwarding it to all on my mailing list.
abdulgafoor
today the concept of foreign talent is just name sake and only in form not in essense.
i totally support the concept of foreign talent. so many cities have grown remarkable due to the inflow of foreign talent and their great contributions. singapore is no different either. up till the early 60s, singapore had a great deal of migration into the country from various asian countries. i already wrote before on how each individual group then contributed to the growth and development of singapore.
but what is totally different from then and today is the following
1) definition of foreign talent
then we had highly capable foreigners coming to singapore. today i am not sure about the quality. when i see PRCs in singapore majority of them are not as literate nor competent as the PRCs i met in US. likewise for the other groups of immigrants
2)contributions by foreign talent
then the foreign talent contributed so strongly towards nation building. if you walk around city hall, every single building from capitol to raffles hotel was built by foreigner in the 1800s and early 1900s. lets take the burmese community for instance. today they serve as cheap labour. then we had capable burmese such as Shaw and Haw Par. the latter is what we need. the cheap foreign labour simply displaces our own labour and contributes little to nation building
suffer under FT
My manager is a FT. She came on board, said that all the stuff we did in our dept is all ‘crap’. Yes that’s what she like to comment on everything. Change all our years of way of working to her way of working. Not only that all the existing staff leave one by one because of her tyranny….. She replaced them with new hires she selected personally. I am the only ‘old’ staff left now. I am given all those unimportant tasks to do. I would have left with my other colleagues if not for my family commitments. I have no choice but to suffer under her. I am counting the day that she will leave the company….Thus is my encounter with FT. I am sure there are others out there who has similar experience like me. Who cause all this? The answer is abvious to any one…
After Goh Ken Swee & Dr West Wood has left , Now the Father & Son have no more ideas how to run S’pore. They just gasa-buta. U people have to be careful, leting this type of people to run this country . They are just “Empty Vessel made the Most Noise”. Take care. God Bless U S’porean.
Gibraltar Suvite Santiago
New immigrants should have the mentality to Adapt to the environment much more than having the environment to suit them.
yes, people can welcome them (or not), but like ex-singaporeans who migrated elsewhere, new immigrants should know what to expect before they come here.
Overseas, ex-singaporeans also learn to adapt and prosper and live happily there. One guy ever said, there is no free lunch. and no one owes no one a living.
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land scare
“Is the NTUC protecting our own workers?”
what do you think. where there is this uniquely special arrangement called the tripartite relationship and where there is no minimum wage for your own labour effort (where you have to pay minimum price for basic necessities) and where FTs are openly encouraged here to make labour effort not so scare but make it scare for the space (land) where you are standing.
orderofthecouncil
Well, in my own personal opinion, the country is in such a dire state because alot of people are in the wrong job. There is no appropriate system to acertain the values and moral of human. Moreover, there are alot of biases in selecting candidates.
Amazing
11) Georgie,
That’s just part of the betrayal.
What’s the average of FTs? I think between 25 – 40 yrs old. So this is the other part………
ORD is only the begining of reservist. So while you get to sweat it out in the field every year for a month or more until you’re 45, the so call FT is enjoying himself in the comfort of the aircon office and taking away nice jucy assignments from you because you are not available, busy serving the nation.
……. And you better not be injured or physically you have another disadvantage.
On the home front, the FTs will have more discretionary time for families. Local born Singaporeans, your reservist is going to eat into your family time too; all else being equal.
…… I’m sure you NS gentlemen can see more areas of inequity, and just in case anyone thinks that the perks given for NSmen is good enough, I invite him/her to sign on for 2 years voluntarily and then get to enjoy the perks.
jjyee
if i am not wrong, the newspaper mentioned that 1 in 3 workers are FT. ie is to say about 33%.
Our racial ratio combination approximately 75% Chinese, 15% Malay, 7% indian, 3% other. Further breakdown of Chinese in their religion group, that say equally distributed into Christian, Buddist, Taoist. WE get about 25%. As the other races are of the smallest group their figure is not meaningful to be includes here.
FT problem which is 33% compared to 25% chinese. Can’t we see the real problem coming from where. Why no mention of the FT problem in OUR PM speeches? i am clueless???
very pissed!
hello mr singh, ur article is a little bit ‘cheem’ for us ordinary housewives to understand, but i like what i read, the bits i could understand. i no longer read the straits times cos firstly it is too expensive, and secondly i have come to realise it is just a mouthpiece for the gahmen.
i know quite a big number of young chaps planning to leave this overcrowded, immigrant-filled country they used to call home but now feeling classed out, edged out, second class citizens after their ns. being a housewife, i m privy to such discussions cos we housewives get together to discuss about matters that matter to us most, this country which we were once proud of, but now r very fed up and sick of gahmen not listening to us common singaporeans. we get upset when we see FWs taking over locals’ jobs, FTs taking over whitecollar jobs, jobs that local professionals are equally qualified for, but edged out cos having a few ang mohs in the organisation bring this so-called vibrancy and multi-culturalism…all bullshit cos it only makes the locals jobless! and come election day, i bet these young chaps will vote for the oppo parties, to protest against what this gahmen is doing to this country of ours. we can’t bring ourselve to welcome FTs or FWs when we r losing jobs to them, and not only do these immigrants bring themselves, they bring along their grandparents, wives, kids..the whole clan…this country is just too small to accommodate! we face the rising costs of living everyday, half of the residents in our estates are brought over by PRs, with their parents, kids, and grandparents in toll, some of the locals can’t afford an hdb flat anymore cos these immigrants r willing to pay high prices for their flats, thus driving up the value and we ordinary singaporeans can’t afford to buy cos the next seller tell us, oh the flat next door was sold at this and this price, we r asking for the same, and if u can’t afford it, we can sell to the PR..this is what is happening to our society today, and does the gahmen care? NO! we have rude FT n FW neighbours who bring in their hoity-toity attitude cos they think they r better than us, and who can blame them when they read what MM said about having to bring in FTs to make us singaporeans more competent..they think we are stupid, and they r arrogant to think we can’t do without them, and this country will sink if we push them out…well, i wish sometimes this country of mine would sink cos then maybe the gahmen would then realise who r really here to stay, n who will quickly pack and leave without moment’s notice!
very pissed!
in the past, my son and his peers thought this country was worth protecting, but they r not so sure now. they see what is happening around them, they dun read the straits times any longer, they surf websites for news, and they are not happy with the truths out there. in fact, they are mighty pissed…and these are our young people who will vote soon, and they aren’t planning to vote PAP!
hwpro
hi very pissed,
i really respect all housewives, they really is the workhorse of our society. Our unsung heroes. However, i feel sad that many housewives are not medically insured, overlooked by Job credit, etc. The reward is emotional only but not monetary. my believe is that housewive may become extinct in the near future. However, is not important enough to be mentioned in our PM speech? Very sad.
Foreign Talents Not Vital
I totally disagree with the notion, idea and emphasis that foreign talent is VITAL.
Foreign talents are necessary to help spur up our economy but they are not vital to the survival of our country. What is vital for the survival of our nation is to increase the quality of our own people in terms of education and training; and also to increase local birthrate with properly thoughout long-term incentives.
Instead of throwing in the towel and give in to desperation (in order to make amends to the fiasco created by the lack-of-foresight “Two-Is-Enough” family planning policy) by recklessly indulging in the quick-fix of mass-importing foreigners (many of whom are actually with inferior or fake degrees and qualifications) to replace and sideline our own locally-born citizens, we should seriously consider the following:
1. Come out with effective incentives for locals to bear more children. The present incentives and half-hearted measures which do not look into the long-term needs of each family that produce more children.
2. Encourage early marriages and child-births.
3. Rescind the law that makes abortion legal. All pregnancies must be saved unless the health of the mother is at stake.
4. Give all if not most of our locals the best of education – i.e. equip as many as possible with tertiary qualifications.
5. Train our people in multi-skills, especially those skills which we now depends upon foreigners for such jobs.
There are more things to be done but the above suggestions will suffice for now.
The present foreign talent policy will become another fiasco some of us will live to regret. Its impact and consequences will only be felt some 20 to 30 years down the road. They will be similar to, if not worse than, the Two-Is-Enough Policy. By then there won’t be a MM around to make amends.
gemami
When Singapore was first separated from Malaysia, who did we depended on if not our very own people?
When Singapore was making progress as a third world Nation, who did we depended on if not our very own people?
When Singapore was making headway against our neighbours in the region, who did we depended on if not our very own people?
We are now a first world economy, and who were the ones who took us here, if not our very own people?
Now that we are a first world economy and Nation, suddenly our very own people are no longer worthy to carry it forward. We are told to surrender everything we have helped to build into the hands of foreigners, whose loyalty is the most questionable component compared to the unquestionable loyalty of our very own people.
The government is going against the basic wisdom of not mending something if it is not broken. Yet we have something here that is not only unbroken, but have also proven to be the treasure that enabled Singapore to progress the way we did. Why then are we throwing away this treasure and taking chances on something that may not produce the same result? Why then are we throwing away this treasure – our very own people?
Boiling Point
In 2001 when the ‘ Hardrock Pathaya ‘ was recruiting, they only had 2 employment
passes issued to foreigner for post of General Manager and Executive chef – all
other positions have to be reserved for Thai !
Locally, foreign students in universities are invited to be PR or given 6 months pass to find a job ! This make Singapore the easiest place to apply for permanent resident ! Even if you work in a factory and reside here for 2 years you will get your PR – bloating the population at all cost !
Somehow, it cheapen the status of the country and it’s citizens !
ah girl
i always learn from young in school that every living thing obeys the law of gravity.
What goes up MUST come down….
I may agree with all their policies but only this FT policy i dont agree.
If we are not as good as those FT, then why say that we hv first class education system and then these first class education system dont produce talent?
seems to me that those first class education system are for talented FT only and we hv lesser than them?
Then i suppose FT should also be neccessary and vital to make our policy holder more competent then.? So that we can be more competent mah as a country…..
wat4stay
the root of the problem is the greediness of pap resulting in this liberal FT scheme and it is turning me away from singapore. i no longer feel that this is our country. everywhere i go, i see them “FT” all around, jamming up our public transport, our spaces. where are the singaporeans?
have the pappies ever have the experience of being berated, sneered at or even looked down upon by “FTs” in this very country of ours? they know nothing of why we are so resentful of having these “FTs” among our midst, so they can talk about accepting and integrating them so easily.
i will most definitely leave singapore if given the chance to. being a first-class citizen with no quality of living, i’d rather be a second-class citizen with a higher standard of living elsewhere.
Ah Tee
Many Singaporeans have complained about this FT issue. We as citizens have to compete with them in schools, for jobs, for medical services and so forth.
I did my national service so why am I treated as a second class citizen in my own country.
After all it is a well known fact that these foreigners are just using our passport as a stepping stone to emigrate somewhere else.
So the question is as citizens what are we going to do we get make sure our leaders get to really hear our unhappiness about their FT policy and do something about ?
Becose I think they don’t (or want) to hear us..
lssim
Three purpose for FT policy
1. To artificially boast up chinese population, so they maintain the dominant race in SG. Other races are to be made minority purposely.
2. To buy more votes from new citizen, mainly from china. These former-chinese are used to commumism, so they are very unlikely to oppose to PAP policies.
2. To boast up nation GDP, to support property prices, to generate consumer spending, etc …
Fat Hope
Why should anyone still bother about MM Lee’s statement – just today his comments on reasons why EssoMobil invested in S’pore is corrected. Not too long ago his comments about Temasek succession plan was also corrected. The list go on……so, just leave him alone lah.
lukas
Long but nice article, was taking sometime off teabreak to read & I appreciate that.
My take on our government’s foreigner policies is they have to maintain it so to keep our corporate cost down, to make them more competitive, so these corporate or MNC can generate bigger profit, pay more tax, and as a result of it contribute more to government treasury, and government can uses these to help its citizen in their various neeeds, i.e housing, medical care, education, and so on.
Of course by favoring corporate and MNC, government choose to sacrifice its citizen, especially mid and lower income citizen, where cheaper foreigner from China, and India will take away their jobs in construction, coffee shop, customer service staff, hospital nurses (just to name a few), and so on. The foreigner policy, as a whole, benefit the people and govenrment more than the issues faced by lower income groups. By using the tax generated from MNC and big company, government can come out with various schemes to help these lower income people.
Another drawback from the government foreigner policy is the overcrowding issue which can be seen everywhere in Singapore. Personally I used to visit shopping mall, or catch movies during weekend or off day, but not anymore due to the over-crowded malls. Our public transport is evern worse off during morning and evening peak hour.
Jackson
I think this year’s NDR is a flop because the PM is not talking the things that I wanna hear. Current issues are still pending, yet he is already talking about Singapore 50 years later. lol
Terence Goh
PR is now so easily granted that it makes no sense to accord it the same status as citizen.
SotongBall
I guess for those who have grave concerns on the FT policy of our government like me, besides voicing our concerns; the best thing to do is to reflect this concern when it comes to the GE. If nobody wants to hear us now, the best way is to use our votes to let them take notice….
Spirit-centred
What is MM talking about? Even with so many FT around we also go into recession and even worse than Japan who barely rely on foreign talents. Its not FT but the compositions of your economic frameworks that’s is vital. If population is small don’t go for cheap labour intensive industries but high value-added industries with the eye on to be the first one to step into sunrise industries.
mike
i see that government is very firm on FTs and FWs no matter wjhat. so only way to make singpaoreans happy and justified is to protect our interests in terms of minimum wages, incentives, as long as its justifiable.
simply cos we are born singaporean, nation builder, served NS and this is our beloved country not even the government have the right to take away from us let alone the Foreigners.
Yang
Heloo folks, what to complain about. All of you vote them in the last election. I already warn all of you but nobody dare do the opposite way. So got to share the blame.
So folks, next GE is coming. Hope that all of you don’t repeat the same mistake and again grumble or complain.
Remember, give our opposition a chance to do something for us in the government. Don’t be trick by PAP giving us a lot of goodies during the election period.
theforgottongeneration
@50) Spirit-centred on August 18th, 2009 4.19 pm
Ah, yes, high-end value-adding industries is the way to go. So academical and obvious. However that requires injection of billions of $, which is unavailable once the allocation is given to TH for investments.
Also, for high-end industries, our scores of govt-sponsored scholars and ministers would then have to show their worth — produce tangible results after 2, 3, 5-years. Now, they wouldn’t want to pressure this group too much and lose a chunk of the 66% (mandated) votes, right?
Aside: To highlight the seemingly disparity in priorities. Healthcare is another issue — $25 millions coughed out to build 3 nursing homes recently. But TH is soaked in BILLIONS (i.e millions with 3 extra zeroes), of which it happens to lose $40B, last announced, in one year. LPPL! Maybe we invest heavily in Vietnam and China so can build cheaper retirement homes there for our aging population.
Our FT policy, ultimately, is just another way to keep costs low, so that FDI would keep coming.
Singapore has not changed from its dependence on FDI to keep the economy growing and yet keep locals uninterested in politics.
Paul Krugman wrote in the 1990s that Singapore’s growth would eventually cease because we merely work harder, but not smarter.
Little did he realize then the extent that Singapore would do now to “keep working harder”, that includes introducing such a liberal immigrant policy.
All these events are connected.
Charles
The PAP sounds like it is running the country as dysfunctional management- without common sense- would a business.
So many counterproductive policies that do little except for putting down Singaporeans. Maybe, they are so sure that they will not be voted out that they see fit to be as unimaginative and unproactive as they are?
39) gemami on August 18th, 2009 1.31 pm
Singaporeans are indeed the treasure of the country and why does the Govt. want to force them out like they are doing?
Thanks for reminding us of that truth :)
52) Yang on August 18th, 2009 4.58 pm ………….Too true!
14) Gilbert Goh on August 18th, 2009 7.58 am
” start a business anytime due to our lack of creativity and risk adverse mentality.”
I think the Govt is the clearest demonstration of this and why would anyone want to start a business if they have to unfairly compete with a GLC?
Terence Goh
I can’t pass a single day without being pissed off by foreigners.
Sleep is disturbed by some foreigners speaking at the top of their voices at the void deck. So didn’t get enough sleep.
MRT is overcrowded, some foreigner insist on pushing his way in before I can get out. They rush for the seats, ignoring our elderly who needs the seat more.
Go for lunch at foodcourt, served by foreign worker with poor attitude. How to boycott when every stall is the same?
Having my lunch, sitting beside me is some foreigners who got their jobs through connections, not talent. Thinking of my friends who got degrees but still jobless made me pissed off.
Back home, went to exercise at park connector. Encounter foreigners who walk like it is their grandfather’s road.
Later at night, go for a stroll at neighbourhood park and exercise station. The place has been turned into mini China and mini India. The old foreigners chat loudly, blowing their noses into the open air, spitting on the ground. The young foreigners use the exercise stations as their kids’ playground depriving people who want to exercise. Can only see a few Singaporeans around cos’ they are too pissed off to come.
Go back home, switch on the TV. Wonder why TV station can play Korean and Japanese shows at Channel U in their original language, but cannot play dialect show.
Betrayed!
I saw this comment on temasekreview.com. Another sad case of Singaporeans being betrayed by the Goverment.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
SadSingaporeans on Tue, 18th Aug 2009 9:30 am
I am a Singaporean. Borned there, grew up there, sang the anthem, served my national service, attended local university, voted my MPs, and then left to do a PhD during my mid twenties.
When I completed my studies, my first thought was to return home. So, I applied to NUS and NTU for a faculty position. Unfortunately, I was immediately rejected. The reason was quite a convenient one stating that my research area is one that is not matching their interests. It got to me pretty hard and I started questioning, “Am I unqualified?”
Following both rejections, and still wanting to be close to home, I applied to universities in Hong Kong. I got lucky immediately. It was not one job offer, but three from three very good universities. All of them were eager to hire me. I picked one. I was given a package (very ironically) that is 30% better than what NUS and NTU are offering to the Singaporeans, what they call local terms. Even more ironic is that I grew to learn that in general, it is much more difficult to be offered an academic job in Hong Kong than in Singapore (because of the better packages). So, I thought, I was really a lucky person to hat-tricked my job applications.
Anyway, months later, out of curiosity, I visited XXX’s departmental website of NXX to find out who they recruited for the particular job posting I was interested. I was shocked. They recruited an India’s Indian who is doing a similar kind of research to mine. But what really puzzled me is that for point-to-point comparison, I have way better credentials than this guy. Nevertheless, I calm myself down with the reasoning that maybe they saw something promising in him that I did not possess.
Several years passed. I revisited their website. The guy is still there. Unlike what I am expecting, he did not seem to have accomplished very much relative to what I have been achieving here in Hong Kong. So, I feel a little troubled as to what is going on. I looked into their websites once more to study their personnel list and recruitment officer. Ha, I begin to understand what went wrong. The division/section that I was applying to contains mostly Indians of India origin. I cannot say that preferential treatment had been imposed in the recruitment. But nevertheless, in my mind, the popular saying that “One Indian becomes one community of Indians” keep flashing into my mind. Then, I start wondering whether “One Chinese from China will become one community of Chinese from China” … and so on. So, what about Singaporeans? When will we be recruited into our country?
Anyway, I am still a Singaporean, and a happy one not living in Singapore. Never want to give up my citizenship because as I said, “Borned there, grew up there, sang the anthem, served my national service, attended local university, voted my MPs ….”
This real-life story is for all “SadSingaporeans” who think that they have been discriminated in SIngapore. I hope that you can find some peace in knowing that many people, qualified and not, are facing the same situation with the FTs.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Heard about the rumoured auditions for “Singapore’s Got Talent”? Locals needn’t apply.
Foreigner
I can’t pass a single day without being pissed off by Singaporeans.
Complain about everything but still vote for the same old guard that took away nearly everything they ever worked for without even recognising this for a second
Allow MRT to be overcrowded instead of protesting out loud that it is unacceptable for MRT to put profits way before travelers comfort.
Go for lunch at foodcourt to realise it is staffed by people who smile a lot more than Singaporeans even though they are paid a pittance and get looked down on by most local
Having my lunch and sitting beside me some Singaporeans complain about how foreigners take the best jobs without asking themselves if their passive and sub-serving attitude may be part of this problem. Thinking of my friends who get exploited while building the infrastructure and the maids who cost more in government fees than the salary they get for themselves
Back home went to exercise at Fitness First where I got so royally suckered in a subscription with not one single jot of customer protection. Business First, you come way later.
Later at night, went for a stroll in the neighborhood park. That place has been turned into big brother with camera’s filming the Speaker’s Corner activities. No Singaporean came out to protest. The only ones who dared to talk loudly were foreigners, even though they had to sign a statement they would never get involved into politics (pay tax and shut up, thanks).
Go back home, switch on the TV and wonder why there is no decent news on, why no journalist asks why Singaporeans have to suffer, where nobody explains where all the money goes, where Government propaganda is pushed in between no-provoking shows.
You see Mr. Terence Goh, it is easy to throw stones but it is not wise to do so from your shiny glass house.
Lets all fight for a better Singapore and not fall in the divide and concur strategies we are fed day by day.
A respectful foreigner (who loves this country)
ob marker
the bottomline is why the MIW think that we are expensive employees:? 1st world standard liviing, 2nd tier salary ?
Abandoned
Dear Ture Blue Singaporeans,
All the actions of the Govt points to the fact that Local Singaporeans have been abandoned by their leaders.
See for yourselves. In so many areas, aging issues, employment issues, FT issues, etc.
It’s time to really help ourselves least it is too late. Remember, successful changes favours those who are prepared. Start preparing Now!
Angelina
Kelvin Tan @54
“Our FT policy, ultimately, is just another way to keep costs low, so that FDI would keep coming.”
I think you mean its another way to keep costs low FOR BUSINESSES TO MAKE BIGGER PROFIT. Consumers do not benefit from the low costs. We are lucky if they do not mark prices up.
“ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!” should be the oppositions tag line, with a simple list of “How to prosper Spore the ORGANIC way” (meaning using our very own talents). Few suggestions:
More funding for education.
Reform education system.
Funding to help local businesses expand ovs.
Where to get the money? NOT from more taxes but reshuffling of funds eg from Ministers & president’s pay (incl perks, allowances, bonuses, pensions etc), getting rid of costly white elephants eg MM, SM & all the deputies. Cut govt spending on political banners, body guards and big offices. Finally shift some of the investments in FIs to invest in the people instead.
Terence Goh
59) Foreigner on August 18th, 2009 6.55 pm
Foreigner, there is no need to be pissed off at Singaporeans. Nobody forced you to come here. If you are unhappy with Singaporeans, go back to your own country.
very pissed!
59)foreigner on august 18, 6.55pm….foreigner, r u here cos u can’t find a job in ur own country? what gives u the right to pass judgment on us born bred educated, served ns, sacrificed for this country? u think u r better than us, then why don’t u take the next flight out, together with ur family in tow, and go back where u come from..so why r u still here…no job back home?
very pissed!
no. 37 hwpro on 18 august 12.38pm….housewives weren’t mentioned cos to the PAP we don’t pay taxes, we don’t add to their coffers, so we r of no use to them any more, never mind the sacrifices we have made so our husbands are able to go out to work like slaves for this gahmen!
no. 52 yang on 18 august 4.58pm….how to vote when we got no chance to vote cos we live in walkover wards? is this the way the gahmen retain their power?
many of the young people of voting age for the first time we housewives talk to r very unhappy about this situation, they feel it is downright unfair that living in a walkover ward robs them of the chance to vote.
mon
Get the FT in.
Give them all the goodies.
So what if the locals are unhappy.
Make these Ft happy.
Then when they become citizens, they will vote for PAP.
Even if half the S’poreans didn’t vote for PAP, the FT will help PAP remain in power.
Then for the next 5 years, pap can squeeze them like they squeeze us now.
The old man should be died by then and there is nothing we can do.
i luv sg
I think “59) foreigner” tried to point out that action is all we need now.
Vote wisely, so we won’t feel betrayed or regret for the next 5 years.
As of those stay in the walkover ward like me, just pray hard that PAP is punished by voter this round.
Kim San
Singapore, truly, one country, two systems.
If any lesser mortal had dared to utter LKY”s insinuation about the loyalty issues that Malay soldiers might face, that lesser mortal would immediately face charges of sedition.
But when the corrupt emperor exposes his biggotry, he is doing it in the name of keeping Singapore safe.
Truly one country, two systems.
kf
I am for the view that having a certain amount of foreign immigrants is healthy. However, the rate and standards at whch we are admitting them is alarming. It’s giving me the impression that policy makers have made a blunder in the past, through population controls, and not having implemented effective policies to arrest the declining TFR (this has been going since generations, not years) of changes in political leadership. Then, keeping quiet on the blunders they made, and bring in foreigners as much and quickly as they can, to make up for lost time.
very pissed!
it doesn’t makes sense that in times of hardships, job losses, FTs are still being given long stay visas to enable them to look for another job here should they decide to change employers…i know of one FT being given that special treatment, and the wonder of it all is that he has no intention of taking up PR, cos he doesn’t wann to contribute to cpf, and he doesn’t have any nice thing to say about the present gahmen, the MOE his employer, and esp MM, and it is such a joke that this is the kind of FT the gahmen gives the red carpet treatment!
Yamamoto
No 68, totally agree!
aiyoyo
aiyoyo
is the top elites also going to be foreign talents?
aiyoyo
theforgottongeneration
@54) Kelvin Tan on August 18th, 2009 5.32 pm
Definitely all event/policies are connected, starting from the Stop-at-2 policy. Once demography is played with, problems can snowball especially for a small place like Singapore where the only true resource is (or was?) its people.
If you read my post @#15, FDI (capital injection) is already surpassed by injection of manpower as main driver for GDP growth. This is a deliberate policy, so the govt should be extremely aware of the implications on the locals for past decade.
crabby
Frankly, I am fed up with all this FT policy (this stupid policy has been repeated again and again for the past 10 years!!!).
I am fed up with how easy it is for any foreigner to obtain S’pore PR.
I am fed up that the benefits enjoyed by PRs are almost the same and in some cases far better than citizens.
You know what…….I have done my NS, but I will NOT defend this country in times of war. Me and my family will simply cross the causeway to M’sia or take a boat to Bintan/Batam.
There is NOTHING worth defending here. Why defend the wealth of a tiny segment of our ruling elite as well as the assets of FT and PRs???
doctorwho
where does MM stays, i go throw piranha (FT of a fishy kind) into his swimming pool.
feed the puppy
59) Foreigner on August 18th, 2009 6.55 pm
” I can’t pass a single day without being pissed off by Singaporeans.
Complain about everything but still vote for the same old guard that took away nearly everything they ever worked for without even recognising this for a second…”
But 1st did EVERY potential voter voted or was there walkovers?
How many really actually voted that constituted the ‘landslide victory’?
doctorwho
is gov setting the stage for singapore to enter into china, as one of the province?
Foreigner
63) Terence Goh
It is sad you don’t see the irony. My piece is a response to your racist tirade.
Why would I need to leave? Because I don’t agree with people like you? Thank god I have the honor of working with some great Singaporean people, have loads of friends here and take the time and effort to read TOC every day to help me understand the culture I live in.
Perhaps it would help to direct your frustrations towards those who created the mess in the first place.
64) very pissed
No, had a very good job in my country, was asked by a SG company to come over, did so, helped make company a bit more successful and I still make it a point to hire SG before any others in my team and that worked out even better for me. I can not vote here, but that wont stop me to try and do my bit for what SG gives me.
Nice to know I should be on the first plane out of here. And how did you propose to change things?
F
mice is nice
can someone tell MM Lee he has passed the retirement age?
is his retirement home in JB ready yet?
theforgottongeneration
@57) Betrayed! on August 18th, 2009 6.52 pm
Had likewise experience with so-called talented FTs we are getting. Went to one of the national test labs for failure analysis on a machine part for my coy. The head of dept was a Ph.D from China. Offered all kinds of nonsense & theories on possible failure mode. Fortunately, I read up a bit beforehand so that I wouldn’t look blur in front of such “experts”. Turns out instead had to explained to Ph.D what I thought the possible failure mode was and whether his lab had the capability to do tests in certain way. He poo-poo the ideas out of hand.
By luck, ran into his subordinate (a lab officer) and somehow ran up conversation with him. He thought about our request and offered to run a first run with no guarantee. Turned out the test was possible (though we had to corelate the results ourselves). So this is the type of foreign “talents” that Singapore can’t produce? A Ph.D (in material science) who relies on two non-Ph.D old dogs to do his work! Yup, we are sure the best training center/stepping stone for FTs. Must be part of contract with China in order to do business with them.
BTW, the lab officer is a S’porean, been working there longer than his boss but I think only diploma. Meritocratic Singapore indeed!
mice is nice
S’pore is a stepping stone, doormat or springboard for FTs to greener pastures.
no wonder there are people stepping, walking over & stomping on our heads. that really hurts!! :(
Terence Goh
77) Foreigner on August 19th, 2009 12.21 am
My comment is to complain about selfish and arrogant behaviour of some foreigners. You can choose to see it anyway you want. If you are one of those who is guilty of the selfishness and arrogance I mentioned and see nothing wrong with it, do feel free to fcuk off from Singapore with my compliments. Singaporeans are not perfect but the behaviour of these foreign assholes is unprecedented.
If you have an axe to grind against Singapore government, do start your own comment and not hijack mine. My piece was purely about some foreigners pissing me off with their behaviour.
Terence Goh
79) theforgottongeneration on August 19th, 2009 12.49 am
“The head of dept was a Ph.D from China. Offered all kinds of nonsense & theories on possible failure mode. Fortunately, I read up a bit beforehand so that I wouldn’t look blur in front of such “experts”. Turns out instead had to explained to Ph.D what I thought the possible failure mode was and whether his lab had the capability to do tests in certain way. He poo-poo the ideas out of hand.”
Was he hinting that you should give him some kickbacks?
mice is nice
Foreigner
post #59 on August 18th, 2009 6.55 pm
“The only ones who dared to talk loudly were foreigners, even though they had to sign a statement they would never get involved into politics (pay tax and shut up, thanks).”
foreigners who talks loudly & do not know the situation on the ground can really talk loudly- hot air….
& in our tiny country we cannot talk too loudly, must be more considerate. want to shout scream & make alot of noise dun do so in S’pore. :P this foreigner cannot take the stress here but want to stay here earn money.
tiredman
Foreigner,
If you have not made that statement in one of your comment, I wound not even want to spend time writing this reply. I cannot help it because you insulting me because I am a Singaporean. If you cannot live with what Singaporeans are, please go away. I do not welcome you. I hate foreigers that think so greatly about themselves. Like it or not you are just a vistor. If you are a visitor and please respect the owner. If you are here to work, please be grateful as there is another Singaporean that is jobless now because of you. Keep quiet and earn your money. Like it a not this is Singapore.
gemami
Hi Foreigner,
Wah! Foreigner getting so much brickbats for your ‘ironic’ prose. Well, you can’t blame the true blue Singaporean can you? Your opening line is a challenge to the Singaporean on Singaporean soil. To think your company could send someone like you to Singapore. It proves our point that the definition of ‘talent’ is somewhat subjective. Where is your talent in subtlety?
Your second point about complaining yet voting for the same government shows up your lack of understanding on the intricate mechanism at work within the dictatorship. Surely you do know that in any fairly-operated democracy, a 35% of votes garnered would normally win you the election. Only in Singapore do you see that 35% could only win you 2 parliamentary seats. It clearly illustrates the point that it is not the voter’s fault but the fault of one group of power-crazy and power-hungry men in whites.
You might argue; how did we allow it to reach this stage? Again, you ought to understand that ours was an illiterate population for the better half of 50 years. The populace was as naïve as sheep. It is only in the latter half of our democracy that the second- and third-generation citizens are waking up to this realization, hence, the rumblings and complaining you now see and hear.
What then are we complaining about? We have heard the constant boast that we have attain first world standard – in education, financial stability and is one of the most stable economies in the world – all because of our hardworking foreparents – yet we are told that we are not good enough to carry this country forward and must depend on foreigners to do so. Should we not complain then, that all these talk about our ability is nothing but smoke in the air? Should we not complain? Or are you suggesting a ‘foreign’ approach like taking to the streets?
Your third point on lack of Singapore smiles: tell me, if you are in our shoes would you smile readily at any TDH? Why should we even be competing with the foreigner to see who has the better smile? The foreigner has ever reason to smile. He is earning a sum of money that is way beyond his imagination; and when he returns home at the end of his working venture, he can look forward to a life of bliss and happiness. For the local, he has no such prospects to look forward to. It is not difficult to see why the foreigner can smile so much.
Finally, your invite to come together to fight for a better Singapore worries me most. You have suggested no less than three times that the way to change things is to come out in protest against the government. Again, you have shown a lack of understanding of the Singaporean mindset. Taking to the streets is not for us. No loss of life can compensate for freedom – more so if that life is one that is dear and near to you.
You claim to be a respectful foreigner but your comments are anything but respectful. Who doesn’t know it is easy to love Singapore – tell us something new.
orderofthecouncil
Simply don’t understand why alot of problematic Malaysians and China PRC are granted PR status; when they are not competent and loves to sabotage people at work. Maybe that does not concern the government, but have they really spare a thought on how we think and feel or do they really care for the true blood Singaporean? It makes little or not difference for the offsprings of those PRs, due to the values that are imparted from their parents. Much more of less, they are more of a parasite.
theforgottongeneration
@83) Terence Goh on August 19th, 2009 1.02 am
No, he was basically a sotong with the “required” paper qualification. I think we are becoming too lax based solely on qualifications, accreditations, etc. Recall we are having scholars running naked at Holland V.
Anyway, are S’poreans having to pay kickbacks to FTs in our own turf now? They must be modelling their behavior with our MP’s –> must pay them sufficiently so that they wouldn’t be corrupt? Best anti-corruption scheme in the world!
Of course those that come here are probably not their best brains, or have the “jump ship” mentality already — if they have no loyalty to their place of birth, very difficult to expect they will embrace SGP sincerely.
cynic
Singaporeans whinge over 2 types of new migrants:
1) the lowly skilled table waiters and cleaners who are taking over the locals’ jobs
2) the very highly skilled who become intolerably successful
Of the 1st, even the most desperate of the local jobless do not want to to
take up menial jobs, or else have unrealistic expectations of remuneration that such repetitively mindless vocations should pay.
Of the 2nd, given the handicap of working in a foreign land with a bewildering
new work ethic to follow, it takes special cream to rise to the top.
To begrudge the creme de la creme for having an ability that eludes the local has-beens
devoid of any ambition or ability does not bespeak well.
X.X!!!
rmber once that LKY commented on the ministers salaries.
if you were to pay peanuts, you’d get incompetent ministers?
I cant see how LKY and his dogs are of any contribution to sg. What they’ve done is cause upset and discourse btw sgreans.
Furthermore, i remember LHL asked, why more and more sgreans are migrating away. Well, it doesnt even take a freaking goondu to realise it.
Proves the point, PAP=Bunch of monkeys.
hitcahi09
How about blocking foreigner from accessing the job opportunity as you mention in 1) & 2) ?
1) only singaporean are hired in low skill jobs, such as coffee stall helper, construction worker, etc , with a decent and minimum wages i.e $1,500 per month?
2) only consider singaporean for the top posts and set minimum quote, i.e 85% of top senior management officers must be singaporean ?
And you will get the following:
1) Coffe will cost $1.50 per cup instead of $0.90 now. Property prices will spire up even higher with an average HDB costs of more than half a million. Childcare centre will charge parents a minimum of $1000 for a full time day care. Everything from basic neccesity to luxury spending will go up even more. Are we going to complain further why cost go out of control again?
2) MNC and big company will simply cannot get enought right-mind Singaporean to staff and run their operation here. Some of them would leave for Malaysia or China, and those stay are unlikely to generate profits and pay tax that indirectly enrich our nation
There is no simple solution to this. Simply calling government to block FT is not going to help us anyway. But “FT is vital” by old Lee sounds distorted and misleading. What we need is some balance between importing FT and preserve substantial benefits for our own citizen.
anakin
Hey Cynic
I think you are living an ivory tower. How abt the below catergories:
1) S Pass holder- semi skilled catergory Can be asst accountants, clerical staff, etc
2) PR given to Traffic Police, Coast Guards, even Malaysians serving in SAF. ( i know coz I used to work in ICA, but gahmen will never admit)
don’t come and tell me Singaporeans cannot fill these roles. The answer is that these are cheap labour period. It is Gahmen and business who do not want to pay market rates but want to charge market rates for everything incl public transport and HDB flats.
very pissed!
foreigner, do u really think u r doing us a favour by telling us u employ locals first? in the first place, u robbed a local’s job, i m sure that local would av done just a good job as u claimed to av done for ur company, n ur employer is just as guilty for employing u instead of a local. what can i do to change things? sadly not much, cos the govt don’t recognise us housewives as valuable assets these days cos we don’t add to their coffers..and i can’t do much politically cos i live in a walkover ward, one way for the gahmen to retain their power.
so, yeah, i can’t do much, but i sure as hell will not stay silent when singaporeans who r born bred educated, served their ns, did their duty, sacrificed for this country are being edged out by people like u..so unless u reallly really understand us very very well (pls do not insult us by telling us u read TOC to try to understand our cultures and all that, reading alone will not make u understand us, one has to be us..and u r not one of us!) and not a handful of ur so called local frens who ‘cow tow’ to u cos u r a foreigner, u r most welcome to take the first flight outta here, u will not be missed by us, ya. n if u had a real good job in ur own country, maybe u can do us the real favour by going back to that same job..or have u reached ur sell-by date liao?
very pissed!
the trouble with foreigner is he hasn’t witnessed fathers losing their jobs, jobs they had made many sacrifices for like family time, the traumas these sole bread winners go through worrying how to feed their families, put their kids through schools, pay mortgage, bills, elderly parents to support, medical bills, etc etc…these people aven’t a clue on the real situation on the ground, they think they understand us just by reading TOC or whatever, and just cos they have great singaporeans as colleagues and frens, they know us very well…what he forgets is his singaporean colleagues and frens have sound secured jobs, they don’t worry about having to feed their families, put their kids through schools, pay the mortgages, bills, support their elderly parents,, etc…so, yeah, cos they feel great! until they have met with an old lady, whose only daughter lost her job to a china national cos the latter was cheaper, and who hasn’t been able to find another job cos she is considered ‘old’, and she only in her early forties, this old lady who has to rummage through the dustbins for cans to sell, until they have met that father who has loyally served his former firm for over 20 years but later replaced by an FT from UK, without so much as a thank u, and until they have seen the distress on the faces of the family members..i just can’t begin to comprehend how on earth these foreigners think they can try to understand us by just reading TOC….i m just so upset by the arrogance of these people! the gahmen has let us down big time, and i wish to god i could vote, but i can’t, and it just soooo upset me and many housewives i know..this stupid walkover ward thing should be done away with, that is our opinion, cos it is not right we don’t get the chance to voice our vote…we may not be highly edu-me-cated like this foreigner but we know the real situation on the ground, mr foreigner..so please, do take the first flight out of here.
steven
To be fair, it is not the foreigner fault, but more to our own government screwed up policy of favouring foreigner than our own local-born bred singaporean.
If the existing FT policy continue for another 5 – 10 years, in 2020, we may reach 6 millions population with 3 millions PR, S-Pass, Work permit etc
BlindMan
We dont need FT’s , we need MINIMUM WAGE, to boost the purchasing power of Singaporeans , (PR’s not included),with minimum wage, we wont see this problem of over crowding and low birth rates.
Cant you see our govt has passed us a “HUGE COST SAVINGS” in their policies to take care of Singaporeans.
3 cheers !!!
very pissed!
20-30 years ago, it was all about nation building and national pride…these days, it’s all about money money money! no more compassions for the ordinary singaporeans, no more thoughts and planning goes into caring for the elderly, but instead they tell us no more cheap fares for the elderly, and to send our elderly parents to jb nursing homes…i feel so shameful being a singaporean these days! what the hell is wrong with this present gahmen? why don’t they care about us common folks anymore! i feel like crying some days, when i see poor folks barely making ends meet, fathers and mothers losing their jobs, young graduates can’t get jobs but foreigners easily get them, and i c the big sea of foreigners taking over our country, and our MM telling us we need FTs to make us competent..no wonder they r laughing at us! i just feel soooo sad! i used to love this country, when it was all about nation building and national pride, these days i just feel ashamed and sad!
very pissed!
95 steven 19 august 2.20pm…maybe u right, steve, but i have come across FTs who are just sooooo arrogant to think we need them or else this country will sink if they leave…i have even one telling me that MM is way past his sell-by date, and should kick the bucket soon, and believe it or not, he is employed by MOE in a top management post in a tertiary institution up in the north..the laughable thing is this FT got in here cos his wife is singaporean, but it became pretty clear after his second contract was signed that he got arrogant, he hasn’t the intention to apply for PR, he charmed his way into getting his second contract renewed, and hoping to do the same for the third, he doesn’t like the cpf scheme, and he intends to milk as much out of the bonus scheme as possible before packing himself back to uk, and soon after his contract was renewed, he started sprouting “u people need us’ and to say our civil servants have no balls, can’t think out of the box, blah blah blah (he is right, i must admit), i just can’t help but feel very upset, not only at the FTs, but at our own govt bodies who employ these people in vast numbers in the first place, edging out our own talented populace…we aren’t goondus, for heaven’s sake! i know of several highly talented 50s somethings locals with Phds and masters, but they can’t get jobs cos the jobs they applied for r taken up by FTs. i can’t smile at FTs, FWs..how to smile at them when u c so many locals losing jobs or having difficulties getting jobs..so sad, this country has become!
nick
NTUC Supermarket – Singapore’s very own, employs PRC as cashiers and shelving staff. Why?
gemami
We know what happens when new wine is added into old wine skin, don’t we? It is precisely what is happening to our society. We may be Chinese but we are no longer mainland Chinese; we may be Indians but we are no longer mainland Indians, we may be Malays but we are no longer mainland Malays.
With the birth of new generations after our fore-parents, our ties with the motherland no longer exist. We have built our own identity – Singaporean. To implant new citizens from these motherlands with the hope of strengthening the racial compound is, at best, silly.
What we have done in these 50 years is not something replaceable with mere numbers. Within this period we have gelled and bonded, and have developed attributes that harmonises us, the different races – attributes the foreigners do not possess.
For example: there is a huge difference with being able to say ‘lah’ and understanding what the ‘lah’ is to a Singaporean, or how it had evolved into a language that gives the Singaporean his identity and soul. It is even more insulting for a foreigner to say it, thinking it will make him a Singaporean.
The day every foreign PR is considered a Singaporean is the day Singaporeans decide to do so – not for the government or any authority to say so.
very pissed!
btw, u good folks, i apologise if i seem to go off the rails at times, but cos i have seen so much miseries with job losses, many of them frens and some family members, i tend to get very passionate, and if i sound incoherent at times, i apologise..but i will not apologise to aFT or FW. i may b just an ordinary housewife, not highly edu-me-cated, not a valuable asset any longer to the gahmen cos i don’t pay tax to add to their coffers, but i do feel the real pulse of the ordinary people, cos i talk to them, cos we get together to discuss and wonder, and worry about our children’s future in this country, worry about husbands losing jobs, worry about the rapid rising costs of living, medical bills (h1n1, and what else will hit us next)..and the list goes on…so my apology to u good folks who are contributing to this wonderful site.
very pissed!
100 gemami 19 august 2.57pm….how true, ur last line..well said!
very pissed!
78 foreigner august 19….oh, yes, btw, mr foreigner, u said u were doing ur bit for sg..well, here are some suggestions that would really really help, if u r really really honest about doing ur bit for sg….how about helping those families who have lost their jobs, donate part of ur big pay packet towards their basic needs, how about donating part of ur pay to the old folks who had to rummage through the rubbish bins for cans to sell, how about donating part of ur pay packet..maybe u can leave ur address on this website, and us housewives will pass the word around? then maybe u can understand just how we singaporeans truly feel when u see the big line of queue outside ur nice flat/condo. and if u live in hdb flat like most of us, good on u, but it still doesn’t make u one of us, k?
I have came across Early Malaysian now SG citizen. (PAP member). Every now n then, they always ask me when this old man going 2 die. what’s hurrying him.
He said, everything has prepare to emigrate to Perth. once the “Old Mentor” collapse. No more future for him & his Family. U Get Cheated
very pissed!
ica should get its house in order..stop issuing these long stay visas to FTs to enable them to look for another employment should they not be satisfied with their current employer…and PR status should be limited to a few years, and after that if the PR wants his status extended, he/she should show he is ready to give up his own country citizenship, then he be granted citizenship..this way, we can gauge whether he/she is genuine in making this country their country and not just a stepping stone, where he gains experience working here, and then leave after earning enough to retire or seek a better place to live somewhere..i honestly don’t understand why anyone would want to settle in this country for good, with the current situation, and the current govt who has gotten arrogant and uncaring..this reminds me of the obama admin, who think they can push whatever legislation through without the citizens’ ok..look what is happening now, with the town halls meetings on their pet project healthcare, and all the genuine anger expressed by the citizens..and the citizens who protested were labelled nazis, trouble makers, extremists, skinheads, racists…is this how our gahmen will label us if we make our voices known? it is like a mirror image, our situation and the obama admin’s treatment of the ordinary american citizens..they just don’t want to listen, they just want to push through their pet projects, and this is what is happening in this country..we don’t exist in the eyes of the gahmen any longer, only the talented FTs and people with money and power matter these days…the ordinary folks can rot for all they care! sad really.
pugdragon
Damn the crowds. The PAP pushed in tonnes of people without sparing a thought for the natives. MRT doesn’t care about people’s comfort & allow long intervals between trains that led to overcrowded, uncomfortable trains that make me feel like going on a stabbing spree. Can’t help feeling this way ‘cos I am demophobic. I have a fear & intense hatred of crowds. & being in god-damned crowded Singapore only worsens my mental condition. Can’t help but to take the god-damned public transport to work 6 days a week.
Government’s worried about race proportion in SAF? Screw that! National service should not even exist! It is an act against human rights & denies the freedom of choice. It is slavery, simply put.
It’s not foreigners’ faults that they are all flocking here to crowd up the island. The government strongly encourages this & offers incentives for that. If Aussie government were to be as loose as Singapore’s, tonnes of Singaporeans would flock over to Aussie & we’d be looked at there as foreigners here by the locals.
But no. Aussie, England, New Zealand, have much stricter policies when it comes to letting in foreigners. They do not want to crowd up their countries blindly, unlike Singapore, the mighty loose mother harlot.
BoyCott
The Government asks you to welcome the foreigners.
I ask of you, dear Singaporeans, to be hostile and repulsive towards all these dirty foreign scumbags.
Do not hire them.
Do not help them in any way.
Do not talk to them.
Isolate them and make their stay in Singapore an unpleasant one.
When you see them and their kids in the shopping mall or the playground, ask them to get the hell out of Singapore.
Please please please do that. This is our only way left.
Fireblade
Some of the comments posted here are disturbingly xenophobic, bordering on bigotry. I understand the issue is heated one , and many pple feel passionately one way or the other. That doesn’t mean that we have to lambast somebody for havingh a different view. What’s the point in complaining that we have no freedoms, if we can even deal with the ’semblence’ of free speech? We must learn to not live in absolutes. Just because a foreigner says good things or bad things about Singapore, doesn’t mean that he must become a citizen or leave. Learning to accept that pple can have different views is the mark of a society that is ready to exercise certain freedoms responsibly.
I am a Singaporean whoi has been away for 12 years. Over that time, I read about our Great Leaders calling for the return of foreign based Singaporeans. That the skills and experience we have accrued would be valuable to Singapore. After being abroad for so many years, I felt perhaps it was time to return, if not permanently, then at least for a few years. Singapore, after all, heolds many memories for me. All my family and friends are here. I served my time doing NS, willingly, and proudly. And I always took pains to explain to foreigners that even though Singapore has a harsh political regime, it also has a top class healthcare service, and it’s citizens are provided for. Oh….after years of being away, even I bought onto that drivel, not realising that it was what I would like to think of Singapore, instead of the reality that exists.
So, I returned in March, after having chucked in a perfectly good job, in London. Thinking that I’m sure that i would be able to find something here. After all it’s meant to be home. My first shock was that Singapore was so different from the Singapore I left. It seems to have regressed in social graces. everybody was so upset or miserable at something or other. Not surprsing, once I learnt that minor details like jobs and 3 sqaure meals were not actually as secure as they once were.
I also soon found that we were swamped with pple who looked suspiciously like Singaporeans, but who couldn’t speak English, or Singlish for that matter. It was this group that seemed to set itself apart and seemed to actually have a haughty view of Singaporeans…..and they didn’t seem to have much manners either. Most Of course, I met other foreigners here who were very happy with the Singapore experience. admittedly they were on fat wages. But I could see that they made genuine efforts to fit in. Falling short of actually changing one’s skin tone, most of them have learned a smattering of words in the national languages, don’t complain so much about the cleanliness of hawker centres (some of them have actually developed a passion for spicy food), and can count singaporeans amogst people they would call their friends. These are pple who have come here to work, and I really don’t see them lording it over us in any way. It is not them, but the system that keeps Singaporeans in their proper place.
Let me tell you what I mean. On my return, I started applying for jobs, got registered on all the recruitment sites and all. Guess what? In 3 months, I only got calls from insurance companies. Now, this started to get me worried slightly. after all, in england, when I put my CV online, I normally start getting calls within 5 mins. Perhaps there was a specific Singapore Template, one must follow here. Well, after awhile, I was told by a few recruiters that type of jobs my experience would be suitable for is normally the sort reserved for expatriates. The cheek! I couldn’t believe that jobs were reserved for anyone, except those that were qualified to do them. And I was told that they are the expats, by virtue of the fact that they have worked abroad and have international experience. So what was I doing for the last 12 years….starting a nudist community on a pacific island? I was told that even though I lived abroad, I’m local. Shocking! The government departments and ministries, which I applied to, weren’t so brash in their feedback. They just never got back to me. So here I was, back in singapore, after all these years, and unwanted by Singapore to help in it’s onward march. Well, thankfully, I remembered, that I was actually quite sought after, back in london, for my professionalism, and so secured a job with a firm I used to work for, which had a branch here. Luckily they still followed their london hiring practices.
The point I’m trying to make…well there are a few points, but the main one is that is not all the expats’ fault for the fact that they have jobs here. There seem to be specific jobs which will only be filled by expats, because of the presumed experience they bring to the job. They apply in good faith, dazzle the silly HR person and management (who steadfastly have decided not to be dazzled by Singaporeans), and get the job. The fault lies in the system and mindset. A friend recently commented that ‘we get government we deserve’. Until we honestly feel we deserve better, we’ll keep having to deal with these stupid practices. I hope it changes for the better (My wife keeps asking what happened to the Singapore we used to see on holiday). How is it going to change? I’m not too sure. They’ve probably got an expat heading that community. I’m only a local.
mike
among those who affected by FTs and FWs snatching our jobs or businessess, i am one of them now.
i am f**king pissed with system here dont give a damn on our own people when comes to bread and butter issue.
just make sure that my constituency is walk over othwise any dick, tom and harry for oppt party, you can count on me for 1 vote.
macam macam
it’s been ten years liao since the last asian crisis i went through umpteen job fairs still no job.
I agree totally with fireblade’s comments dated 19 Aug.
hopeless
glad that still got so many people with a brain still working….
hopeless
even malaysia PR is tougher to get them singapore PR. no wonder i seldom see malaysian convert into singaporean
kf
100) gemami,
I was thinking of the same stuff just now too. In the first place, here’s a culture of bringing something instant from point A to point B. Think of how we ‘implant’ instant trees from 1 part of the island to another part. Think of how we ‘import’ instant FT in sports, after many years of failed attempts to groom local ones.
I don’t think they can even get past the stage of having outstanding ratios of :
(a) (# of foreigners granted PR and converted to Singapore citizens)/ (total # of foreigners who are PRs)
(b) (# of foreigners as PRs)/ (total # of foreigners excluding tourists)
i luv sg
Seriously, sometime I can’t help thinking Singapore is a prostitute with both legs open wide wide with welcome sign to foreigner
gemami
Hi Fireblade,
I am glad that the comments posted here are xenophobic and borders on bigotry. It shows that Singaporeans do care a lot for their country – built by their parents’ bare hands and life of toil – and what is becoming of it.
Many have lambasted Foreigner for his comments and I am sure you know why since you have correctly pointed out that the system here favours the foreigner more than the locals. Instead of sympathizing with our plight, this fair-minded foreigner decided to pour scorn on us and our society. What’s even more unacceptable is his provocation that we should do something about the injustice and ‘protest’ (which I read as taking to the streets).
Supposing Singaporeans do take to the streets, I can bet my last dollar that this foreign chap will be sitting in the comfort of his high-rise dwelling laughing at us while shitting in his pants at the same time. Do you honestly think he cares for what we are going through? Why would he want to change things if he is so well-taken care of by the Singapore government? That is why some of us felt so insulted and have told him to sh** off.
“Learning to accept that pple can have different views is the mark of a society that is ready to exercise certain freedoms responsibly” : Fireblade
We can accept differing views if the views expressed are properly deliberated after careful reflection, and not wantonly echoed from some dubious sources, like the other table in a coffee-shop.
When you left Singapore 12 years ago, I believe you left with the echoes of LKY’s words ringing in your ears – that smart people like you should venture abroad so that when you return, you will bring along with you a vast set of experience that would benefit the country. Unfortunately, after you left, the GCT era took over and while you were happily toiling away – with LKY’s words still buzzing in your ears – our nice guy GCT decided to prostitute himself and the country away for extra dollars and dubious talents.
Now that reality has sunken in when you realized that you have been hoodwinked – like most of us are coming to realize about LKY – the least I would expect of you is to understand the plight of your fellow countrymen. If you can do this, then you will also realize that we do not give a damn about the sentiments and feelings of the foreigner standing or sitting next to us. To hell with them and get the hell out of MY home. They are not welcomed, not even for the tourist dollar. We want our home back, that’s all we are asking. This is our ‘proper place”….
“It is not them, but the system that keeps Singaporeans in their proper place”: Fireblade
On a lighter note, your account of the struggle you faced looking for employment here just serves to underline the xenophobia and bigotry of Singaporeans. However, they is not misplaced.
The solution? As someone pointed out – we should all give the foreigner a real hard time and get them out. This will be the most telling message we can give to this government and it is better than taking to the streets.
wat4stay
in the earlier days where the immigration rule was not so lax, do you see/hear pple being xenophobic? then, it was hard to get s’pore PR, must less the citizenship. i remember we were very welcoming to them coz it was rare to have foreigners around us.
but suddenly, the floodgates opened and everywhere you go, there are more foreigners than s’poreans around. can you blame s’poreans for developing this supposed xenophobia? this is a shock to us. moreover, govt kept telling us these are talents. but in fact, many of those that i have encountered, esp those from middle kingdom, are all trash! they have no respect for this country. they do not make an effort to assimilate to our culture. if you take public transport, you will realise that most of the time, pple who took up the reserved seats are foreigners, not s’poreans. many of them are crude and brash with no sense of hygiene. impressions count and when you have met one too many, it becomes fixed.
honestly, i hate the foreigners, but i hate the pap even more for subjecting us citizens to these. i no longer feel any bond to this country and does not think this is my country. i can admit that i’ve become very sceptical and sneer at anything the pap says. i believe they have a hidden agenda in everything they do, their concern is not for the pple, it’s all money talks.
theforgottongeneration
On these bashings of Foreigner, firstly, has anyone consider this person may not even be a foreigner in the first place? Just a punching bag to divert energy from the real issues?
Secondly, who actually caused this xenophobic mentality? What is the root cause for such “us” vs “them” issues? Pls read my posting at #15 — it is deliberate policies starting from the Stop-at-2.
We can beat the brains out of each other, have high unemployment of locals, low wages, need-for-talents-so-must-import argument, etc… Classical divide and conquer that have absolutely no ill-impact for the ruling class. As long as GDP is upwards, the garhem won’t give a shit to either locals or foreigners. The people just have to live with the effects of the policies as best they can.
gemami
In effect; it’s all about dollars and cents – not scholars and sense.
Fireblade
RE 116)
Hi there Gemami,
I do understand the plight of Singaporeans. I have returned to finf that we are not the priority anymore, as we don’t produce enough children. The government, in all it’s wisdom, thinks that the solution to this is to open the floodgates and let anybody in, willy nilly. Somehow, I get the nagging feeling that our well renumerated politicians didn’t actually consider how this shift in priority and the susequent imbalance in the makeup of the population, would be received by Singaporeans. Or maybe they just didn’t care about us.
However, that is no excuse for being bigotted. Yes this is our country. But to completely want to rid it of all foreigners sounds frighteningly like Nationalistic Socialism. And the last time that school of thought was taken to its near conclusion, quite a lot of Jews found themselves on the wrong side of a gas chamber.
I reiterate, the foreigners come here, cos they have been welcomed by our government. In most countries, the government are more or less representative of its electorate’s wishes. it’s not the foreigners’ fault for thinkingh this may be so here as well. However, the whole situation has been handled badly from the word go. If our Parliamentary representatives gave a damn about us, or perhaps were even slightly concerned about whether they would return after the next GE, they may considered integration policies. or even this very revolutionary idea: Jobs for citizens first…Foreigners 2nd. And of course the foreigners themselves are not without all blame…there are those amongst their numbers who think they have no need to integrate with the locals. It’s not surprising that Singaporeans are pissed of. But that doesn’t mean that we have to become bigotted. I thought prejudice was something we didn’t aspire to. Oh by the way, I think we all found out yesterday that ‘based on justice and equality’ is just an aspiration, not something that’s actually practiced. But that’s a completely different thread.
I get your point about the ‘taking to the streets’ issue. Nobody wants to see running battles with riot police on our streets. But a protest doesn’t have to be violent. More often than not, it’s a bunch of pple marching to show the government that they are unhappy about something, and that they have enough numbers behind them, for it to be considered seriously. But i suppose our S’pore system is different. One of our Ministers previously mentioned that if you want to change a law, then you have to get elected to parliament, and then try to get it changed there. That’s going to prove a bit difficult as there are only 84 seats going, and some of them have got long term reservations (not by expats). It’s a sad state of affairs, when citizens can’t show their disagreement to certain legislation or policy. Even worse, when the elected representatives don’t care.
To be perfectly honest, I don’t really blame Singaporeans for being so emotional about this. Good leaders shape good society. But we seem to have the highest paid clowns as ours. If they had given a damn about us they wouldn’t have mismanaged the situation so insensitively. The PM waxed lyrical about racial harmony. But he seriously must be on another planet, if he doesn’t realise that his government’s policy with regards to flooding S’pore with foreigners, is leading to all kinds of tension, including racial tension. But I do hope that Singaporeans do not somehow get pushed towards an Ultra Right Wing stance or a national Socialist one. Be rude to the foreigner who can’t be bothered to integrate…..or better still try and get them to integrate (ok that might be a bit too idealistic at this point) But don’t completely shun all foreigners. Some of them….just like some of us….can be quite pleasant actually. Being known as a racist, bigotted country, is not a very nice thing. It reflects very badly on us. And whatever mistakes the clowns at the top make, we should not allow our society to become globally despised .
UselessReasoning
Dear FireBlade
Honestly, if all your reasonings had worked, we will not be getting into this situation of repetitive complaints on the matter to MPs, ministers, and blogging mindlessly through sites like this.
Obviously, nothing had worked.
If things can be done just by being sensible and calm, even in Singapore, do we need to to resort to jailing Mas Selamat? Should we not talk sense into him? Does USA need to attack Iraq?
Obviously, the matter has gotten out of hand. No one up there is listening. Something has to be done.
I support the argument to take real action by voting down the Government and being real nasty to the foreigners. We need to let them think twice about coming over. By the way, the great salary package, safe environment, friendly people who loves foreigners are the core reasons why these guys love coming to Singapore.
If we wipe out the points on being friendly and making them feel safe, then the only reason they would choose to come over is for money. We can safely wipe out many of these fxxxing FTs.
FTfromNigeria
A NIGERIAN man from a West African drug syndicate has been placed under criminal law detention for using Singaporean women as drug mules.
Okemawalan Ugo Buchi and a Singaporean woman accomplice were arrested last month after investigations by the Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB).
The 31-year-old, also known as “Malik”, “Michael” and “Ugo” among his associates, is an organiser of the syndicate, which comprises of members from all over the world, spanning China, Nigeria, Spain, Greece, Guyana to Puerto Rico.
CNB, in a statement on Thursday, said the Nigerian’s plan was to court women at Clarke Quay nightspots and coffeeshops around the Bencoolen area. After picking them as girlfriends, he would live off them until they could no longer support him financially.
Then, he would lure them with offers of high paying jobs with free travel opportunities to deliver bags supposedly containing clothing samples to China and Europe. The bags actually carried drugs.
The women were paid between US$500 (S$723) to US$1500 for each delivery, depending on their destinations. The women usually started out on drug runs to nearby countries, and then eventually to Europe and Latin America.
Between December 2008 and March 2009, he organised at least 10 drug runs by making use of his girlfriends.
Okemawalan Ugo Buchi’s Singaporean accomplice is being detained for her involvement in drug smuggling activities with the syndicate
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I was listening to the PM’s national day speech the other day and have to comment on it. He practically spent 3 hours talking about racial harmony. Is a racial riot imminent here? There are more urgent issues to bring up like jobs for Singaporeans, protecting the worker’s wages from spiralling downwards and also the most agitated foreign worker’s policy.
The country is fast becoming an unfamiliar place to many Singaporeans. The sense of national pride is disappearing by the day.
I can almost envisage a future whereby Singaporeans are the minorities in their own land. Well, technically if the government succeeds to increase the population to 6.5million by 2030, half of the people will be from abroad. It is a healthy development for the country to constantly invite others to migrate to Singapore. The only problem is that competition for jobs will be tough. Wages will stagnate especially for the bottom 30% of the workers. Public facilities and transportation will be more crowded. Life in Singapore will be more stressful. Have we ever thought about this?
Singaporeans have been resigned to their dismal fate. There seemed to be no way out of this predicament unless they migrate out of the country. Unfortunately, Singapore is a small island. Anyone harbouring intentions to live in a real country should plan their exit strategy soon. Or else be contented with the ever increasing stress and expensive Singapore they jolly call home.